Selected quad for the lemma: land_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
land_n	find_v	great_a	king_n	3,579	5	3.5272	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70490	Londons liberties, or, A learned argument of law and reason, before the Lord Mayor, Court of Aldermen, and Common-Council, at Guild-Hall between Mr. Maynard, now the Kings eldest serjeant at law, Mr. Hales, late Lord Chief Justice of the Kings Bench, and Mr. Wilde, lately one of the justices of the same court, of council for the Livery-men of London, and Major John Wildman, and Mr. John Price, of council for the Freemen of London : wherein the freedom of the citizens of London in their elections of their mayor, sheriffs, aldermen, and common-council-men, is fully debated, their most ancient charters examined, and on both hands agreed to be but a confirmation of their former rights : with their opinions concerning the forfeiture of Londons charter.	Maynard, John, Sir, 1602-1690.; Wildman, John, Sir, 1621?-1693.; Wilde, William, Sir, 1611?-1679.; Hale, Matthew, Sir, 1609-1676.	1682 (1682)	Wing L2936B; ESTC R14306	40,443	37

hardly dealt withal Now we shall prove that there hath been 180. years possession of Election this way and it hath by the blessing of God brought with it Peace Prosperity and plenty to you and I hope you are not so ungrateful but to acknowledge it but it is told you and much pains is taken to perswade you by these Gentlemen that this must be removed but under favour upon little grounds You see here are but two and these two differ in what they would maintain Now all Truths stand one with another saith one this is lawful saith another this cannot be changed either you must conclude the present is lawful or unlawful if lawful why is it desired to be changed But judge you the consequents of this if you deny this way now establisht to be lawful then the whole City of London for above two hundred years never had one lawful Mayor and all Actions performed by them may be questioned Now in the fourty one of Queen Elizabeth there being a difference in the City about Election of Officers all the Judges of England were caused to meet together about this very thing and it was expresly resolved by them all that such Elections were lawful and London is named in the Resolution and it is said they found it a Question of very great Advice and those Judges were very grave pious and godly men for some of them as Popham and Anderson and Pyriam also a famous man so that Gentlemen fifty years ago this Question was on foot and all the Judges of the Land did then give their Resolutions that it would be matter of very great inconveniency to alter it and they gave it as in right of Law to belong as it had been before and if it be not lawful then this City hath forfeited its Charter and is lyable when they that are above in Power and Authority at any time shall be pleased to be questioned for it I do apprehend that the foundation of your right doth not depend upon any Charter those Charters you have are matter of confirmation and not Charters that do give you your Right the antientest Record that you produce is from King Iohn but the first year of Richard the first is the utmost bounds of memory If that it be not by prescription why then are many customs of the City void For there are many customes and usages for which there is no Charter nor is it possible there should be and therefore it must of necessity follow that Mayors was time out of Mind and the truth is Mayors were in use before the Charter they were indeed called Portwards and Portrifts but the Name was changed in Richard the First 's time and from thence they were called Mayors and the Charter was granted in the Name of the Mayor so that though the Officers Name be changed it is the same Officer still the Power the same but not the Name if they were not by Custome for you must know what is by Custome is not by Charter and what is by Charter is not by Custome Now then what is the Charter the Barons of themselves may choose a Mayor this Charter being of this Antiquity it shall be construed according to usage and that is a rule in Law and that is your consequence for if we shall be forced to find out the meaning of words you shall be to seek for Citizens in those times were called Barons But we shall now come to answer their objections and to make those objections we have to say on the other sides Those Records that they produce say we shall all choose and if that you hold your selves to the letter Then you are tyed to an impossibility that is every Citizen none excluded and then yon will reduce your selves to an absolute impossibility but say they we would have a Representative made out of every Ward and so they with the Mayor and Court of Aldermen should choose the chief Officers of the City but this doth no more stand as an objection against the present choice for if you look to the words of the Record produced it doth not bear it for doth the Charter grant you any such Representative Taking it for granted the Right is founded upon Charter and and not upon custom and I take it to be by Ancient custom before the Charter or else the Charter would not bear it that they should choose a Mayor and not telling them how and when for this general grant was made because it was their custom but an objection is made that in this way which we now choose all do not choose But I answer all do choose though not by their own votes you say when did we give our right to the Livery Men to give vote for us I answer a Man seeth with his eye ye we say the Man seeth a Mans hand moveth but it is the Man that moveth it so though every part doth not do every thing in the City yet the whole doth every thing and the City doth choose though every member thereof be not at the choice so that the question is whether you do believe this was lawfully done by those that do it Now if Lawfully why then they are the Cities Representatives as for example for the Parliament every member thereof cannot give his vote for the passing of all things for many times many of them are in the Country when many Acts are past and yet we say the Parliament doth it as in election of Parliament Men in the Country the Writs run that the People shall choose and yet we all know that none choose but such as are Free-holders although there may be many as good men as Free-holders yet they have no vote and yet this Act is accounted the Act of all the Commons in England though they come in but by some parts and some have no vote in the choice of them we may not depart from this for by this we hold all we have so if this be a lawful choice why then the Law supposes that where there is a continuance of a lawful possession there all lawful meanes is supposed to maintain the possession If that all the City should meet together and set down this Order if that it be once settled that for ever hereafter these and these shall chuse then you make those your Trustees and it supposeth such an ancient custom was And truly Gentlemen the choice as now it is is no otherwise for the Aldermen they are chosen by the Ward and so are the Common Council I will put you a Case which to my Understanding is like this In the 28. year of Edw. the 1st there was a Statute made wherein the King grants to the People that they shall chuse the Sheriffs or conservators of the Peace whenas there was nothing more clear that none but the Freeholders should chuse them Mark the parallel and yet this is an Act of Parliament that hath its beginning at that time and

trust we serve you in so doing if we prove it in your power to alter it now and it shall encourage us to pray and you also to give what we ask if it shall tend to the good Government of this City If the right of election belong to the Livery it must appear by written Law or by custome time out of minde if by a Law it must be by some Law of the Land or by some Charter or by some Act of Common-Hall or Common-Counsel If it be by Charter we must insist upon the terms of the Charter and expounded the same by succeeding practices and if this Charter granted in King Iohns time be meerly declarative we shall know what the custome was by the succeeding elections If you plead custome we shall finde custome for many years that the chief Officers of the City were elected by the Lord Mayor Court of Aldermen Common-Counsel-men and the Wards of the City and not by the Livery-men of every Company as is desired by these Gentlemen To the 15. year of Ed. 4. they are in use from the 19. year of Ed. the first which was 194 years It was the practice of the City to choose by Wards so long And the Aldermen and Common-Counsel-men are chosen out of the Wards Now for election of Mayors and Sheriffs by the wards we will give you but a place of that plenty we can give to that purpose in the 19. year of Ed. the first 1231. and in the 31. year of Ed. the first In the 19 of Ed. the first out of twelve men of every Ward were the Sheriffs chosen and so was the Mayor Thomas Blun chosen the Sheriffs were chosen by the Lord Mayor the Court of Aldermen and Common-Counsel and twelve men out of every Ward And Iohn Lincoln was so chosen And in the 32. of Ed. the first Iohn Blun was so chosen again and in the 33. of Ed. the first Iohn Blun was chosen the fifth time Mayor so and so were the Sheriffs And again 1 Ed. the second Peter Drove chosen Sheriff as before and Iohn Blun was chosen Mayor the sixth time the first of Ed. the second Blun was chosen the seventh time by the Lord Mayor Court of Aldermen and the Community which was summoned thereunto which was twelve men out of every Ward and in the 2. of Ed. the second Bu●ler and Dov●r were chosen Sheriffs as before the time would fail if we should speak of Palmer and Edmonds c. and many others who were chosen by the Lord Mayor the Aldermen the Common-Counsel and the good men of Wards At the 22. year of Henry the sixth were present at election of the Mayor all the Common-Counsel-men and several discreet Citizens chosen out of every Ward its true they are called the Commons and Community and if that you look in the 21. of Ed. the first the Community there is expounded to be the honest discreet and wise men of the Ward so that they were Representatives chosen out of the Wards but if it be objected that besides these twelve honest discreet men of every Ward there were certain other men that did belong unto this election and surely it may imply that the Livery-men did bel●ng unto the election surely no but by those dark expressions must be meant the honest discreet men chosen out of the Wards with the Lord Mayor and Aldermen to whom it belongs ex officio The main argument was this that the chief Officers of the City were to be chosen by the Lord Mayor and the Aldermen and Sheriffs and Common-Counsel-men with twelve men chosen out of every Ward that were discreet men that was granted but that they were such discreet men as to exclude other was denied If that these are the men they must be distinguished from other men by another term than discreet men Now you argue thus that Livery-men are discreet and therefore the men that must choose my Lord Mayor are the Livery-men as if you should argue That the Lord Mayor wears a golden Chain therefore the Sheriffs are Lord Mayors because they wear golden Chains I humbly offer these Considerations 1. My Lord Mayor nor the Aldermen chuse not any officers of the Companies why should they then chuse any chief Officers of the City 2. The jurisdiction of the Mayor and Sheriffs extends to a Local Power and by these Gentlemens pleading Livery-men Free of this City may live at York and if they be at London that day my Lord Mayor is chosen they may choose my Lord Mayor and the Sheriffs of this City and yet live not under their Power 3. The way of election we plead for doth not exempt them from being chosen by the Ward to elect 4. Free-men of this City pay Shot and Lot and are bound to assist the chief Officers of this City but Livery-men living not under these bounds are not under this obligation 5. Again this City is distributed by way of Wards Quest-men Jury-men Constables and Scavengers are all chosen by the Wards and it is most necessary for the well Government of this City that the chief Officers of this City be chosen by Representatives from every Ward 6. If there be any miscarriage in Government The Citizens living in the City must be taxt and pay any fine for misgovernment and therefore it is most fit they should have their vote in election 7. And further if any accident happen by Fire or the miscarriage of one of more of the chief Officers if it so fall out that the Treasure of the Chamber should be exhausted and mis-imployed that the Orphans cannot have their portions I desire to know who must be responsible for it the Livery-men of several Companies or the whole Wards and every particular man thereof And here give me leave to be heard with Charity God knows my Heart I speak out of Love to you all and as prest in Conscience what I have to say I am sure it is the whisperings nay the Report of most and I fear too true That the cry of the Fatherless and the Widdow doth sollicite Heaven for vengeance for expending the poor Orphans Estates and we trust and believe that your Honour and this Honourable Court whose Faces and Lives and Conversations we so well know that we do verily believe that your Hearts and Hands are clean from this pollution but as we do believe so we hope that your Honour and the rest will take some speedy course that the blood of the Fatherless and the Widdow may not stick to these Walls Let our Blood and Estates go before the Blood of poor Orphans that that may not one day be charged upon this City I desire to be pardoned this digression I should answer some objections that are commonly made against this way of election that we desire The first is this That this will destroy the Companies and so at last it will strike higher to wit the overthrow of my Lord Mayor and the Court of Aldermen and