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A17015 An ecclesiastical Protestant historie of the high pastoral and fatherly chardge and care of the Popes of Rome, ouer the church of Britanie, from the first planting of the christia[n] faith there, by S. Peter the Apostle, and his disciples: continued in euery age, and hundred of yeares, by holy bishops, and cleargie men, sent hither and consecrated by them, his successors in the See Apostolicke. Euidently deduced and proued by historicall narration, from the published and priuiledged writings (to appeaseal protestants) of the most learned & allowed English protestant pretended bishops, doctors, antiquaries, & others of that religion. Broughton, Richard. 1624 (1624) STC 3895; ESTC S119562 92,026 262

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esteeme soe auntient and certaine that a Protestant Bishop writeth Wee haue seene the Bishop of Romes owne letter to kinge Lucius that is reputed to bee the first christian kinge of Britanie Iohn Bridges def of the gouernm in the church of Engl. l. 16. pag. 1355. The Theater writers say it is in the custody of Syr Robert Cotton Baronet of Conington in Huntington shire Theater of greate Brit. l. 6. c. 19. Others say it is likewise founde in the old historie called Brutus Caius antiquit Cantab. l. 1. Stowe writeth I finde the same entered in a booke intituled Constitutions pertayninge to the Guilde hall of London Stovve histor in Kinge Lucius And it is founde alsoe amonge the old Lawes of Saint Edward our kinge and others before him and placed receaued as a part of our Lawe both by our Saxon kinges and Norman alsoe as namely kinge William the first as the Protestant publisher of them him else a lawyer and antiquarie is witnesse vvith all moste all writers plaerique scriptores omnes as hee testifieth Williel Lambard lib. de Prisis Anglorum legib fol. 1. ante praef fol. 126.131 Therefore I may boldely terme Pope Eleutherius the first Christian Lawe maker and first director and confirmer of Lawes in this kingedome Which how it can stand to bee iustly done as all these our kinges their nobles clergies lawyers and these Protestants auouche without as greate a preeminent power as the Popes or these times doe clayme or commonly Catholicks ascribe vnto them I leaue to the quickest sighted Protestants to distinguish And yet this schole of Protestant antiquaries doe reade a lesson vnto vs to clymbe a stepp higher in such affayres For they assure from the same publick lawes or our auncient Saxon and other kinges and from the same Pope Eleutherius his owne donation that hee declared to be annexed to the crowne of this kingedome all the Ilands betweene vs and Norway and that our kings should haue care thereupon to enioye them The words of that auncient Lawe by Protestant publishing and allowance publick ar these Leges Edowardi Regis c. 17. apud Lumbard supr fol. 130 pag. 2. Debet de iure Rex omnes terras honores omnes dignitates iura libertates coronae regni huius in integrum cum omni integritate sine diminutione obseruare defendere dispersa delapidata amissa regni iura in pristinum statum debitum virioius omnibus reuocare Vniuersa vero terra tota Insulae omnes vsque Norwegiam vsque Dariam pertinent ad coronam regni eius sunt de appendicys dignitatibus Regis vna est Monarchia vnum est regnum vocabatur quondam Regnum Britanniae modo autem vocatur Regnum Anglorum tales enim metas fines praedictae sunt constituit imposuit coronae Regni Dominus Eleutherius Papa sententia sua qui primo destinauit coronam benedictam Britannia christianitatem Deo inspirante Lucio Regi Britonum The kinge of right ought with all integritie and without diminution obserue and defende all lands and honors all dignities and Rights and liberties of the crowne of this kingedome wholly and call backe againe al the Rights of the kingdome that bee dispersed dilapidated loste with all his power vnto their auncient and due state And the whole and all the Land and the Ilands euen to Norway and Denmarke doe belonge to the crowne of his kingdome and ar of the Appendicies and dignities of the kinge and it is one monarchie and one kingedome and it was anciently called the kingedome of Britanie now is called the kingdome of the English men for our Lord the Pope Eleutherius did by his sentence cōstitute and appointe such limites and boundes to the crowne of the kingdome first sending by the inspiration of God a hallowed crowne and Christianitie to Britanie to Kinge Lucius Hitherto this soe auncient publicke authoritie and antiquitie now seeing all writers Catholicks and Protestāts agree that both S. Eleutherius which made this declaration and confirmation of soe manie Ilands and Rights and Kinge Lucius which accepted it was in the like degree and all our kings soe many hundred yeares after many of them holy Saints which by this declaration esteemed these territories to bee their owne to keepe them all or any of them declarer or receauers from horrible and damnable vsurpation as of necessitie by these Protestants wee must doe what way is there to end this difficultie except wee allowe of the Popes Authoritie in such a declaration But to yeeld a greater and more auncient honor and priuiledge to this kingedome and the kings thereof then many Protestants enemies to our Brittish Antiquities will allowe vnto it not onely to comprehend al these Northren Ilands vnto Norway vnder the name of Insulae Britannicae the Brittish or Britons Iland But that the kingedome of Denmarke was subiect and tributary to Britanie diuers hundreds of yeares before Christ and soe consequently the adiacent Ilands which by Ius gentium belonged to the Continent next adioyninge wee shall by this exempt this kingdome from receauing any thinge by a free donation from Pope Eleutherius in this kinde claiminge by this that hee only adiudged the old Right and Title of Britanie to bee true and lawfull in this case not giuing any new prerogatiue by that confirmation Yett this will not exempt either kinge Lucius from embracinge or Pope Eleutherius from assigning and confirminge that diuision and preferringe the Title of kinge Lucius before the Scots and others which by their histories had then enioyed longe time diuers of those Ilands and soe wee must still acknowledge that both Eleutherius the Pope and kinge Lucius then thought the decision of such things did in some respect in conscience belonge to that See Apostolick otherwise neither would the one haue made it or the other sought for or accepted it in that maner both of them beeing worthie and renowned Saints in the church of Christ M. S. pr. Regnum Britanniae in Gurguntio Ioh. Rom apud Stowe in eod Stowe and Howes histor in Gurg an ante Christ 375. Ioh. Lydgate in Cantab. Ioh. Harding Chron. c. 34. fol. 29. 30. Caius Antiq. Cantab 1. Matth. Westm. aetat 5. c. 5. Hect. Boeth hist. Scot. Giral Cāb ap Stow. supr And into the same laborinth we fal by these men denying power in the Pope of Rome to giue pardōs or Indulgences to mitigate or release the punishments of sinnes if wee should harken vnto them for they greately commend vnto vs the Epistle ascribed to S. Patrick the Irish Apostle in the antiquities of Glastenbury to bee of greate authoritie and yett in this wee reade Quod sanctus Phaganus Deruuianus ab Eleutherio Papa qui eos miserat decē annos Indulgentiae impetrarunt That S. Phaganus and Deruuianus obteyned of Pope Eleutherius that sent them ten yeares of Indulgence for the pilgryms visiting
singulorum Pontificium Principum huius Regni licentia sedis Apostoli●ae statuo praesenti scripto firmiter decerno vt ciuitas Scholarium praedicta à publicis vect galibus operibus onerosis absoluātur Where wee see the Popes licence requisite and first obteyned of this kinge euen from freeing that schole in tēporal respects This licence as it seemeth beeing obteyned from Pope Iohn the second for the Charter beareth date anno ab Incarnatione Domini 531.7 die Aprilis in ciuitate Londoni the yeare of Christ 531. the seuenth day of Aprill in the citie of London at which time Iohn the seconde is cōmonly thought to haue beene Pope How many Popes confirmed that schole and exempted it from all other iurisdiction but the See Apostolick I haue written before and now add from Pope Sergius the first apud Caium lib. 1. de antiquit Cantabr accadem pag. 78.79.80 shewinge how his predecessors in the See Apostolick had done the same Sergius Episcopus seruus seruorum Dei praesentium authoritate decreuimus vt nulli Archiepiscopo seu Episcopo alijue ecclesiasticae personae vel seculariliceat vniuersitatem vestram aut aliquem vestrum suspendere seu excommunic●re vel quolibet sub interdicto ponere absqu● summi Pontificis assensu vel eius mandato speciali prohibemus infuper ne quis priuilegia à sede Apostolica gratiosè concessa vel indulta ausu temerario infringere seu restringere praesumat vel attemptet nulli igitur heminum omnino liceat hanc paginam nostrae concessionis exemptionis infringere vel ei quouismodo contraire Si quis autem hoc attentare praesumpserit indignationem omnipotentis Dei beatorum Apostolorum Petri Pauli se nouerit incursurum Sergius Pope seruant of the seruāts of God Wee haue decreed by the Authoritie of these presents that it shall bee lawfull for noe Archbishop Bishop or other parson spirituall or secular to suspend or excommunicate or any way to interdict your vniuersitie or any of you without the Popes assent or special commandement Wee further forbid that noe man by temerarious boldnes presume or attempt to infringe or restrict the priuiledges gratiously graunted giuen by the See Apostolick It shall bee lawfull for noe man at all to infringe or contradict the tenure of this our graunt and exemptiō if any man presume to attempt it lett him know that he shall incurr the indignation of almightie God and the blessed Apostles Peter and Paul Where wee see all parsons in Britanie then subiect and subordinate in spirituall iurisdiction to the Pope of Rome And this testified by our Protestants thēselues Wil. Lamb. in l. de leg Reg. in Legib. Edward fol. 126. Ingulph histor in fine Whoe goe furher in such things and assure vs from the common lawes themselues of our auncient kings S. Edward the confessor and others and confirmed by king William the first both as Ingulphus and our Protestant antiquaries acknowledge that this kingdome at that time and kings therof did acknowledge as great power in the See of Rome in matters concerning this nation as any catholick now may yeeld vnto it for our auntient publick lawes warranted by our Protestants thus Instruct vs Leges S. Eduardi titul de iure appendicijs coronae Regni Britanniae Guliel Lamb. sup p. 137.138 Hackluit booke of trauailes pag. 244. Impetrauit temporibus illis Arthurus Rex à Domino Papa à Curia Romana quod confirmata sit Norweia in perpetuum coronae Britanniae in augmentum Regni huius vocauitque illam Arthurus Cameram Britanniae Hac vero de causa dicunt Norwegienses se debere in regno isto cohabitare dicunt se esse de corpore regni huius scilicet de corona Britanniae Thus in english by a Protestant minister kinge Arthur obteyned in those dayes of the Pope and Court of Rome that Norway should bee for euer annexed to the crowne of Britanie for the enlardgment of this kingdome and hee called it the chamber of Britanie For this cause the Norses say that they ought to dwell with vs in this kingedome to witt that they belonge to the crowne of Britanie And if wee would bee as little beholding to the See of Rome for confirming Norway to this kingedom as to Pope Eleutherius before to the Ilands and say kinge Arthur claymed Norway by a former Title as Dēmarke was before or Iurebelli as a conqueror and the Pope did nothinge but confirme these or one of these Titles it sufficeth to asscribe the iudgment of that question to the See Apostolicke This seemeth to mee to confesse and acknowlege greate and ample prerogatiue in the Pope of Rome in spirituall maters and directing also of temporal to a spiritual end as Catholicks now attribute vnto him or hee demaunde And yett wee are by these Protestans whoe freely acknowledge the Popes and church of Rome then to haue beene holy assured that the holy Pope and court of Rome soe practized it That our kinge Christianus optimus fuit kinge Arthur was an exceeding good christian who sought accepted it both he the Bishop cleargie and the whole kingedome soe approued thereof that it was by publick authoritie receaued for a lawe in this nation and ratified both by our Britās Saxons Normans after them For it is set downe in this lawe before that from that time the Norses or Norwegians claymed priuiledge to bee free here by those proceedings Which is more plainly expressed afterward in the same lawe in these words by Protestants translation The people of Norvvay may and ought from henceforth dvvel remaine in this kingdome vvith vs as our louinge and svvorne Brethren Qua de causa possint debent praedicti de caetero nobiscū cohabitare remanere in regno sicut coniurati fratres nostri Guliel Lamb. in leg Eduardi sup Richard Hackluyt p. 245. And the motiue whereupon the Pope then soe proceeded in annexing and confirminge the kingdome of Norway to the crowne of Britanie seemeth to bee the very same the spirituall good both of that contrie this kingedome alsoe and the church of God in ordine ad spiritualia Which the present Pope and Catholicque diuines alledge ordinarilie for priuiledges of the See Apostolicke in such causes the spirituall good and helpe of all or many and hurt of none at all For besides many histories of those times soe testifyinge and to bee passed ouer it is recorded in these verie lawes themselues soe warranted by Protestants and antiquities Leges S. Edwardi supr titul de Iure Appendicijs Fuerunt gentes ferae indomitae non habuerunt legem Dei nec proximi fuerunt autem ibi Christiani occultè Arthurus autem Christianus optimus fuit fecit eos baptizari vnum Deum per totam Norweiam venerari vnam fidem Christi semper inuiolatam custodire caperunt vniuersi proceres Norweiae vxores suas de nobili gente Britonum
of all these their holy ordinances constitutions which was orderly performed as both Catholick antiquities and Protestant historians doe thus vndoubtedly assure vs herein First Ponticus Virunnius in his Brittish historie l. 4. as it is warranted by Protestants saith of these Legates sent by Pope Eleutherius Romam redierunt cuncta quae fecerant a Pontifice confirmari impetrarunt confirmatione facta cum pluribus alijs redierunt in Britanniam They returned to Rome and obteyned to haue all things they had done to bee confirmed by the Pope and the confirmation beeing made they returned into Britanie with other The Author of the old Birttish history published with the selfe same Protestant approbation Galfrid Monument l. 4. histor Britan. cap. 20 saith Denique restauratis omnibus redierunt Antistites Romam que fecerunt à beatissimo Papa confirmari impetrauerunt confirmatione vero facta reuersi sunt in Britanniam compluribus alijs comitati At laste when the Bishops soe Virunnius also termeth those Legats had restored all things they returned to Rome and obteyned to haue those things they had done to bee confirmed by the most blessed Pope and the confirmation beeing made they returned againe into Britanie accompanied with many others Like bee the words of Matthew of Westminster warranred by these Protestants in this maner Matth. Westm. an 186. Anno gratiae 186. beati Antistites Faganus Deruuianus Romam reuersi quae fecerāt impetrauerunt à Papa beatissimo confirmari In the yeare of grace 186. The blessed Bishops Fuganus and Deruuianus returned to Rome and obteyned those things which they had done to bee confirmed by the moste blessed Pope Which beeing finished the said doctors with many others returned into Britanie And our English Protestants in their Annotation vpon this place thus approue it Protest annot Morginal in Matth. West supr ad an 186. Fides Christi in Britannia confirmatur The faith of Christ is confirmed in Britanie All things of this nature were here confirmed by the Popes Authoritie De mandato Apostolico by the Popes commaundement as Martinus Polonus turned Protetestant by these men in their publishinge of him De mandato Apostolico ex praecepto Apostoli by the commaundement of the Apostle or Pope as readeth the Protestant Antiquarie Master Selden Martin Pol. in Eleutherio col 49. Selden supr in Anaclet c. 6. And soe all Protestants doe or ought to confesse approuinge those Authors I haue cited before and fetchinge the greatest euidence they haue of these things and tymes from them soe particularly as before registringe both the necessitie of the Popes approbation and confirmation to bee such that the Legates themselues were enforced to go frō hence to Rome to procure it and returned not hither for a finall settlinge of all things vntill the Pope had confirmed and approued them at Rome And this illimitated and supereminent Power both claimed and exercised by this holy Pope was not confined in and with his proceedinges with this kingedome soe happily conuerted to the faith by him but to shew himselfe by these Protestants as his his holy predecessors before haue beene proued by the same allowance to bee the supreame and highest commaunder and gouernor of the church of Christ in all places on earthe hee generally proceeded accordingly makinge and ordeyninge decrees for all parsons and places and times as these Protestants thus assure vs. Robert Barnes in vit Pontif. Rom. in Eleutherio Hoc tempore Lucius Britanniae Rex Christiano caetui cum suis subditis adiungi à Pontifice petijt per literas In this time of Pope Eleutherius Lucius Kinge of Britanie desired of the Pope by his letters that hee and his subiects might bee ioyned to the Christian companie as though S. Eleutherius then Pope by power of that nam place had such power ouer the whole company of Christians that none that is a kinge or greate prince on whose publick conuersion together with his people so manie matters requiring the consent and confirmation of the highest Pastor supreame Iurisdiction depended might bee admitted to bee a Christian without the Popes Approbation And to confirme this highest power spirituall in him as in his predecessors before they further tell vs. Rob. Barns supr That generally in the cases of Bishops which is the greatest hee decreed that nothing should bee defined in their cases but by the Pope himselfe Accusationem contra Episcopos intentatam Episcopos audire permisit sed vt nihil nisi apud Pontificem definiretur cauet And againe that any preist might appeale from his Bishop to the Pope of Rome if the sinceritie of the other iudge his Bishops was suspected Vt nemo Clericum accusatores pertraheret ad alterius dioecesis Episcopum sed accusaret eū apud suum Episcopum Si vero Iudex Clerico suspectus esset appellandi facultatem dedit Reo Where hee euidently by these Protestants maketh himselfe his Successors in the See Apostolick of Rome supreame Iudge in spiritual thinges and reserueth appeales to them in such affaires from all other Iudges THE VI. CHAPTER How this moste renowned Pope Eleutherius did by these Protestants and antiquities allovved by them clayme exercise and settle here for him and his Successors as ample prerogatiue and Iurisdiction as Catholicke Scholes doe and Catholicques may giue to Popes ANd because there is greate difference betweene Catholicks and Protestants concerninge some priuiledges which the former commonly yeeld and the second as vsually in England denye vnto him and eyther of them would bee thought to reuerence and embrace the opinion and practise of that blessed Pope Eleutherius and those vnspotted times especially as they are interpreted by themselues lett vs now take counsaile and aduise of these Protestāts their persecutors in this kinde whether this moste blessed Pope Eleutherius whoe soe conuerted this nation and was soe blessed and worthie a Saint with these men was not by their Iudgements and testimonies as far ingaged in this matter as Pope Gregorie the fifteenth of that name now is or Kinge Lucius that holy kinge and Saint the holy Bishops and cleargie and all the Christians of this land at that tyme did not giue to the Popes of Rome then as much in this kinde as anie English preist or Catholicke now doth and by the present Roman Religion may giue and allowe to this present Pope or any other This is euidently proued and inuincibly made manifest vnto vs before not onely by soe many our best Antiquities but generallie by the best learned English Protestant historians iointly and with an vniforme consent agreeing in this that at the settlinge of manie Archbishops and Bishops in this Iland by the highest Papall power of Saint Eleutherius by the same alsoe the whole kingedome of Scotland with the Northern Ilands were made subiect to the Archbishopp of Yorke in spirituall thinges as I haue proued before by the best historians Catholicks Protestants which haue written of this
against S. Augustine Bed lib. 2. histor cap. 2. Galfrid mon. lib. 11. hist. Matth. Westm. an 603. Capgrau in S. Augustino and speaking of an Archbishop of the citie of Legions and yett not anie one of them maketh the least mention that any Archbishop did either resist S. Augustine or pretend the least dislike of the spirituall supreamacie in the See of Rome or gainesay any order or decree of the blessed Pope S. Gregorie which sent him hither nor any Protestants though diuers of them name the Bishops as they coniecture which resisted S. Augustine Matth. Parker ant Britan. in August Godwyn Conuers of Brit. Stowe histor in Ethelb Bal. l. de Act. Pont. Rom. in Gregor 1. doe once name S. Telaus or any Archiepiscopal See at S. Dauids or anye other place in Walles at that time to haue consented to that opposition Hardinge in his Cronicle maketh this matter playne that the Britans which gainsaid S. Augustine did not deny the supreame spirituall power of the Pope of Rome in Britanie at that time but rather defended and maintayned it and thereby alsoe as they thought did iustely refuse S. Augustine for when hee demaunded obedience of them thus they answeared by this Author Ioh. Hardinge Chronicle cap. 88. in Ethelbert kinge of Saxons fol. 83.84 To which Britōs answeared that they not knew That hee had such estate in all Britanie For they had three Archbishops to obeyu Of Caerlion London and Yorke citie By Bishops of Rome graunted to vs ordinate Full longe afore yee had such dignitie Wherefore wee will obey noe nevv primate And specially none English nevv prelate For Englishmen and Saxons haue vs noyed And haue our Land and all our kyn destroyed Where wee see the Britans were soe far from disallowinge the Popes Authoritie in such things that by the same they both claymed and maintayned the power and prerogatiues of three Archbishops amonge them now foure hundred yeares since But these Protestants themselues with others acknowledge that the moste renowned Bishops that were in this kingedome at that time both receaued the Authoritie of the Pope of Rome and submitted themselues to S. Augustine his holy Legate Of the holines and learninge of S. Assaph I haue spoken before yett a Protestant Bishop saith of him Bal. centur 1. in Assaph A Gregorij Pontificis Romani discipulis Angliam aduentantibus authoritatem accepit hee receaued authoritie from the disciples of Gregorie the Pope of Rome that came into England S. Asaph in the life of his Master S. Kētegern Capgraue and others after affirme as much of S. Kentegern S. Assaph Ioh. Capgrau in vit S. Kentegerni that hee did acknowledg this high power in S. Gregory the Pope and receaued power and confirmation from him All our histories with generall consent affirme the same of S. Lethardus the french Bishop that liued with Queene Bertha in Kerit I haue proued the same of S. Iuo the Persian Archbishop that then preached in Huntington-shire Of S. Telaus alsoe the Archbishop of Walles sufficient is said all-ready And yet these were onely the cheife holy and learned Bishops here in that time not anie one comparable to the meanest of these mentioned in any writer I can finde to haue resisted either the Popes ordinance or his Legats authoritie And to satisfie a vaine obiection of some Protestant writers That S. Columbanus the holy Irish or Scottish Abbot whose authoritie some Britans in the tyme of S. Augustine pretended for defence of their error in obseruing the feast of Easter not presently submitting thēselues to the cōmaund of the church of Rome it is euident by auntiēt histories that both this S. Columban and the cheifest of them submitted thēselues wholly vnto it receaued both instruction and iurisdictiō frō thence For it is testified in a very old Manuscript cited by Surius that both S. Kelian which was the most renowned of them and that S Columbanus and S. Gallus submitted themselues with their associats to the Pope of Rome in all thinges at that time Thus it testifieth of S. Keliā made Bishop of Herbypolis Wirtzburg in Franconia by the Pope Sur. in vit S. Kel M.S. peruetust apud eund supr Praedicationi abstinuit donec Romano se Pontifici praesentaret quatenus apud Romanā sedem integrū christianae Religionis dogma licentiā praedicādi acciperet Hibernia siquidem olim Pelagiana faedata fuerat haeresi Apostolicaque censura damnata Hee abstayned from preaching vntil hee presented himselfe vnto the Pope of Rome that hee might receaue frō the See of Rome both the sownd doctrine of Christian Religion and licence to preach For Irland his contry was auntiently defiled with the pelagian heresie and condemned by apostolick censure and there sheweth how hee had companions both of his iorney and submission amonge others Saint Columbanus and S. Gallus leauing the first in Italy and the other in Almayne The like hath Iohn Capgraue and a verie old manuscript which hee followeth if not the same with that of Surius Ioh. Capgrau in S. Kilian M.S. antiq pr. gloriosissimus Rex Eduardus in S. Kiliano In oppido orientalis Fraunciae quod Wirttzburch eorum lingua dicitur cum aliquo tempore sub silentio stetisset Romam profectus est officio praedicandi à Papa recepto Episcopus ordinatus socijs eius Columbano scilicet in Italia Gallo in Almania remanentibus Saint Kilian stayed in a Towne of east France called in their languadge Wirtzburch and when hee had beene there some time in silence hee went to Rome and receauing from the Pope power to preach and beeing ordeyned a Bishop returned leauing his Companions Columbanus in Italy and Gallus in Almayne Where it is euident not onely these Scottish Saints did not onely submitt themselues to the Pope in all matters both of doctrine and iurisdiction but the Pope at that time extended and exercised that his supreame spirituall power both in Italie Fraunce Almayne Britaine and Ireland both to censure a whole nation and to disable any to preach or exercise spirituall function without his licence And although the kings of Britanie after Kinge Arthur euen to the desolation of the Britans were by all histories euen of their owne as Gildas Nennius the Brittish historie and others moste wicked men and such that by all testimonie of Protestants and others their kingedome was ouerthrowne by God for the sinnes of them and their people yett not anie one of them by any historie did denie this power of the See Apostolick but euen their last kinge Cadwalladar as their owne historian writteth Gildas de excid Britan. Galfrid mon. l. 11. histor cap. 3.4.5.6.7.8 monum histor beeing admonished from heauen Nolebat Deus Britones in Insula Britanniae diutius regnare that God would not haue the Britans reigne any any longer in the Iland of Britanie went as hee was admonished on pilgrimage to Rome submitted himselfe to Pope Sergius and died an holy Saint in soe much