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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A61153 The carmens remonstrance, or a reply to the false and scurrilous papers of the woodmongers,by them put out against the carremen in a way of opposing them in getting of their charter, and a vindication of the carmens intentions against the scandal of the vvoodmongers. Directed to the right honourable, Alexander Garland esquire, and the rest of the committee of Parliament who heard the businesse between the woodmongers and the carmen. And likewise to the Lord Mayor and court of Aldermen of the City of London. By Stephen Spratt solicitor for the carremen. [Spratt, Stephen] 1649 (1649) Wing S5028; ESTC R222157 9,816 22

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limited being 400. Reply They say true in that and thereby the Carmen know their Right And if any others should set up Carts and marke them with that Brand or mark then the Carmen doe know themselves to be wronged their labour to be taken from them And if any Carres be set on work with the Mark or Brand on the side of it and doe exceed the number of foure hundred then the Citie is abused and the Carmen robbed of their labour But the Woodmongers did and doe still allow above fourty Carts to worke more then the number of foure hundred with the Mark or Brand on the side thereof c. And by allowing of these Carts above the number of foure hundred they get at least three hundred pounds a yeare but the Lord knowes what they doe with the money and what is become of the Stock of the Hall no man but themselves can tell albeit their books testifie that the Revennue of their Company is 800. pound per annum and all raised out of the poore Carmens labour and the Hospitall goe unpaid their Rent at Midsummer last 250. pounds in arreare which the Carmen would scorn to suffer were they but once incorporate by themselves II. The Woodmongers say in their Answer That Carlicences or Car-roomes and Carmen were time out of mind in the rule and disposition of the Citie who did from time to time set down orders for their Government and the Cities quiet And the Carmen themselves petitioned to be under the Woodmongers government and to be incorporate with them by reason they were not capable to govern themselves and the ordering of them was by Act of Common-councell commiitted to the Woodmongers who did condioion with the Citie to pay to Christs Hospitall a By what authority 150. l. per annum for their poores reliefe Reply The Carmen doe not endeavour to be from under the Rule of the Citie but to be from under the rule of the Company of Woodmongers and to be under the Rule prescription and protection of the Lord Major and Court of Aldermen were they but incorporate by themselves as other Companeis are and to pay to the Citie the hundred and fifty pounds per annum more faithfully then the Woodmongers have done And to stand to and abide such Orders and by Lawes for their good government and just dealings with Merchants and others of the Citie as by consent of the Judges of the Land and consent of the Lord Major and Court of Aldermen they shall make Reply And whereas the Woodmongers in their answer say That the Carmen did petition to be incorperate with them Whether this be true or false it is no great matter but the Carmen say It is false and that the Woodmongers did onely use the Carmens name in their Petition without their consents to King James in the first year of his Reigne meerly to set a grace upon their Petition to procure their Charter or else they had never gotten it But suppose the Carmen did petition to be under the Woodmongers Government yet not so under them as never to come to be Masters nor beare rule in the Company as now the Woodmongers deny to suffer them neither can it be thought that the Carmen ever intended so to loose their birth-Rights as to serve a Prentiship in London for a Freedome as they have done and never to beare rule in their Company but to live as slaves to the Woodmongers Besides it is very probable that the Woodmongers in those dayes were honest men And therefore the Carmen might well petition to be incorporate with them both Parties at that time being but a small body but now the multitude both of Carmen and Woodmongers arising to a great body and the Woodmongers still incroaching and intrenching upon the Carmens priviledge They may and doe see more reason to petition to be seavered from the Woodmongers then ever they did to be joyned with them and therefore the Woodmongers allegation in that is vain and foolish Again The Woodmongers say The Carmen were not capable to governe themselves For reply to that Whether this be a scandall to the Carmen in those dayes is not worth disputing But if they were not capable in those dayes to governe themselves yet that is no argument that the Carmen of these dayes are not capable to governe themselves for few of these were Carmen in those dayes Besides in these later ages all men grow wiser and wiser and so doe the Carmen Yet further for reply Why the Carmen should not be as capable of Government as the Woodmongers are let the World judge Or why the Carmen were not so able to governe when they were incorporate first let Reason speake What were the Woodmongers in those dayes when the Corporation was granted A few poore petty fellowes that bought Coles and Wood and sould them again and were so few in number whilst they lived meerly by honesty that in the third yeare of King James when their Charter was granted they were forced to take out ten men out of the Company of Farriers to make them a Company Now let Reason speake Why may not a Carman be as capable of Government as a Farrier Now the world may see what brave Blades these Woodmongers were that make such brags of their excellency in Government Cast your eyes a little upon the Woodmongers of these times and behold what Gallant Race or Stock they come on Some of them made Canvis Slops for Seamen some are Brewers and some were Coblers c And when they were so neare crackt they could hardly hold together then for lucre of the Car-roomes which they knew they should have power to take from poor Men Widowes and fatherlesse Children their Roomes being worth 50 or 60. pounds apeice they turned their Copies and came to be Woodmongers Now let Reason be the Judge once more Why may not the honest Carmen of these times be as capable of Government as a Slop-maker a Brewer or a Cobler c One word by way of Argument Why not the Carmen to be a Company incorporate by their selvs as well as the Woodmongers Porters Watermen and Tankard-bearers c. Are these people so able to governe above the Car-men O but the reason why the Wood-mongers doe so much oppose the Car-men in getting of their Charter is because of the Car-roomes O the sweet Car-roomes four hundred of them saith the Woodmongers that paid unto us 17s 4d. per annum and 1s 6d. quartridge and 20s every turne over and 20s a peece admittance besides 20s upon every Car-roome taxed by us when and as often as we please besides 3s per weeke for so many as we pleased to seale above the number of four hundred out of which we have feasted our Bellies with many a fat Capon and with other good cheere whilst many of the poor Widowes of our Company and fatherlesse children hath perished for want of bread whose Car-roomes we used to