Selected quad for the lemma: land_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
land_n	church_n	good_a	king_n	1,394	5	3.5072	3	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A80251	The Commons dis-deceiver: touching their deceitfull delatory evasions of a desired speedy treaty with the King; the onely expedient for a wished and happy peace in the kingdome. Containing 1. Answers to the reasons of the Commons, which they gave the Lords (at a conference July 25. 1648.) against a treaty. 2. Reasons why the Commons, rather then the Lords, are against a treaty. 3. Reasons to shew that it is safer and better, even for the Commons, to adventure on a treaty, then to hazard a new warre.		1648 (1648)	Wing C5574; Thomason E457_3; ESTC R204960	11,269	15

honour held by the power and continuance of this Parliament either in Offices sequestred Estates Lands of King Queen Prince or Church or in Pentions Salaries keeping of Parks Forrests or the like insomuch that the words of the Prophet are here verified Micha 3.11 The heads thereof judge for reward and the Priests thereof teach for hire and the Prophets thereof divine for money Ob. But some happily will say if these cases debarre the Commons to be the Judges in this case then we must leave all to the King or who else shall be the Judge Resp I answer that the right power of judging is knowne and discerned by the Commission that grants and directs that power and the Commission as it were in this case must be the Writ as it 's called of Summons to the Parliament and when the Writ of calling the Commons is ad consentiendum faciendum to assent and doe the Writ as Commission to the Lords is ad tractandum impertiendum consilium and with the King ad judicandum de arduis negotiis c. Whence I conceive I may rightly inferre that the Lords or especially the Lords rather then the Commons should be Judges in this case and if their judgement may be heard then a Treaty without sending the Propositions should be had Again if it be required that Judges should be free from partiality to be led by affection or interest then I conceive that though some of the Lords may be somwhat tainted here with yet they are not so much infected or not so many and so deeply as these of the Commons are If I should grant that in our cases or at other times the Commons in such or the like case might Judge as being the Representees of the People in England yet if it appeare that these Representees have deceived the generall trust and have acted either to their own private or wicked publike-ends why may not the people recall their grant and resume their own Power to Judge add that the Cōmons have deceived their trust is apparent by their pointblank voting against and crossing the Petitions of London other Counties and the hearty desire of the whole Kingdome for a Treaty Ob. But you will aske if this power of judging what is fit to be done in this point of Treaty bee taken from the Commons then who shall judge for the People Resp And I aske who shall judge for them the People but the People themselves for the Commons were chosen but as Representees for them to put up from time to time as sodaine occasion should bee offered the desires and minds of the People who could not at all times and upon all occasions be present themselves Whereas now in this Case when the People both Understand Petition and call for Reliefe if their Representees will not heare nor move nor vote for them why should they not be heard speaking themselves and I am sure in the beginning of this Parliament it was thus practised and not long since declared by both Houses That it is the proper byrth-right of the Subject to Petition that they may be heard and accordingly they were for a long time to effect But if you now are against this popular way of pleasing the many by hearing their Petitions which at first was held the right way or the way to guide the two Houses then why suffer you not the People to heare their chiefe Magistrates and wise-men speaking and moving for them for can it bee conceived that the People eight yeeres agoe wrought by feare favour wine or money to choose you their Representees should bee tied and bound up to defend doe and suffer what you all dayes of your lives shall vote though it bee never so wicked un-just or against them or the Kingdome Instead then of the Case as put by the Reasoners I conceive the Case will bee this That if no Treaty nor Peace can be had then unavoidably must follow a decay of Trade waste of the Wealth and Men of this Kingdome the confusion of Religion Law and Justice the necessary concomitants and consequents of un-civill-Warre and Arbitrary Government And then the question will and must be briefly this Whether in point of Religion Law Justice and Policie all these should bee certainly and necessarily brought on rather then some few inconsiderable persons who have transgressed all Law by God and man by false worship taking Gods name in vaine prophaning his holy-day dishonouring their parent by murther theft false witnessing should bee put but in an hazard to answer for their transgressions I say but in an hazard to answer their transgressions For unlesse these men shall bee willfully and obstinately set to maintain continue and goe on in their former wicked wayes they may have hope nay they have a royall promise and themselves are able in the Treaty to make it good to obteine a generall pardon for all both for themselves their friends and their so called Godly Divines And to make this grant and pardon the more sure and binding they shall not only have the words and faithfull promise and the assent of the King to an act in Parliament but the concurrence of this and the other two Kingdomes many if not the most of which are ingaged as well though not so much as these commons So that there is nothing that they can object against this Pardon and assurance but that they cannot which is indeed that they will not trust and trust they cannot or will not that they may hereby hold and continue their usurped power and unjust gain which in effect is as much as to say Rather then they will forgoe these by a Treaty and Peace they will plunge not only the People of this but of the two other Kingdomes not only into an hazard but into the certain losses of estates and lives and into a waste if not an utter ruine and destruction of three Kingdoms which the People of the three Kingdomes if God shall please to endow them with Wisdome Judgement and Resolution will not suffer but will rise and joyne as one man to withstand and prevent 2. The Reasons why the Commons are more averse to a Treaty and so to Peace then the Lords are especially three which hang upon these three cords not easily to be broken 1. Profit 2. Power 3. Reputation in which the Commons gaine and the Lords in generall lose For the matter of Profit some of the Commons by their art and power in Parliament gaine yeerely many thousands divers get thousands and very few of them but by Offices sequestred-Estates Pentions keeping of Parkes Forrests enjoying the Lands of King Queene Prince and of the Church have and receive good yeerely incomes for it hath beene the policy of the leading men to invite and perswade some few men once of reasonable Consciences and more modest Soules to take such Places and Lands c. as before mentioned thereby not only to keepe them silent from speaking against their

THE COMMONS Dis-Deceiver Touching their deceitfull delatory evasions of a desired speedy Treaty with the King the onely Expedient for a wished and happy Peace in the Kingdome CONTAINING 1. Answers to the Reasons of the Commons which they gave the Lords at a Conference July 25. 1648. against a Treaty 2. Reasons why the Commons rather then the Lords are against a Treaty 3. Reasons to shew that it is safer and better even for the Commons to adventure on a Treaty then to hazard a new Warre PSAL. 26.4 I have not dwelt with vain persons neither will I have fellowship with the deceitfull PSAL. 35.20 For why their communing is not for peace but they imagine deceitfull words against them that would be quiet in the Land Printed in the Yeere 1648. Brief Answers to the severall Reasons given by the Commons at a Conference with the Lords why they will have the three Bills sent and signed by the King before a Treaty The Reasons as collected and printed by an especiall Order of Parliament are these 1. Reason IF these Bills be not passed before the Treaty the Parliament will leave their friends in such a condition as they cannot be able to defend them who have stood for them Answer This Reason looks only to the defence of their friends who have stood for them and not to the defence of the Kingdome Church and People who keep and maintaine them 2. They say of their friends in generall not qualifying them by just honest good but be they what they will if their friends who have stood to them in their wicked designes tending to the unsupportable miseries of the People yet these they must defend be they who they will or be they never so many 3. But if these friends deserve or are capable of defence why are not the Commons able to defend them in a Treaty the Lords and your selves for whom they have stood being the Treaters or Judges for the most part in the case controverted 4. Stands this to honesty or reason that rather then not defend such friends in unjust wayes you will hazzard the declared good of the Kingdome a Treaty Me thinks with wise just and good men this should not be urged as a Reason But the second happily will make amends for this which is 2. Reason If they prevaile who p●esse on this Treaty such godly Divines who are placed by the Parliament shall be put out and scandalous Ministers restored to their places Answer Before I answer the Reason I shall examine some passages in the words and phrases as 1. Why they call themselves not the House or Houses in Parliament but the Parliament it selfe which cannot be without the King who by our Lawes Sir Edw. Cook M. St. Johns Pym c. is the Head the beginning and end of our Parliaments 2. That they whom the one or the other House hath placed are called Divines as though they were the onely Divines the learned in that profession and not so onely but as though they are the only holy upright and therefore called the godly Divines 3. But the others whom they have put our although for no other reason then that the other might be put in to serve the two Houses these and all these without exception are but Ministers Servants and that scandalous too so that their Geese are Swans white godly Divines all holy Pharisees and all the rest foule black birds or scandalous very Publicans 4. Where they say these Ministers shall be restored to their places imply they not that these places are justly the Ministers and not lawfully belonging to their Divines But not to insist on words and phrases what reason is there in this that rather then their so called Divines should leave what they unlawfully hold or come to a triall whether they be fitter to hold or the other Ministers to be restored that we shall have no peace nor Treaty Ahab that idolatrous bloody Tyrant was more just and reasonable then these Reasoners for though he accounted the Prophet the troubler of Israel yet he would treat or put it to a triall whether Elijah the Prophet or Jezebels Priests were the better and more deserving for Gods Service and not hazard all rather then put this to the triall 3. Reason If we treat with the King about calling in His Majesties Declarations wee give a great advantage to the King against our selves Answer If the Declarations on the Kings part be just and according to Law why not give the King leave to treat whether he should reca●l them whereas if they be unjust what need you fear but that they shall be recalled 2. Nay what need you feare when as the King hath promised so a peace may be setled that be they never so just and lawfull on his part yet for your sakes he will recall them 3. But still see that as the other two Reasons of a Treaty and Peace look'd upon their friends so this minds only themselves and that so farre that they will rather hazzard all then adventure to give an advantage to the King as they say against themselves 4. Reason If the three Bills be not passed they give oportunity to have the power of Parliament questioned for all the blood spilt in the late warres which never was questioned by any of his Majesties Predecessors Answer 1. That the Parliament i. the King the two Houses have power to make warre wherein blood may be and is spilt is out of question 2. But grant that the two Houses have without just power spilt so much blood must we want peace rather then they shall heare of it though without punishment 3. Or rather then the two Houses should be questioned whether they have such a power must we be without a Treaty and Peace and so fall into a new warre to the spilling of more blood and must this stand for a Reason too 4 When they say the like was never questioned by any of his Majesties Predecessors we usually say a Negative of fact cannot be proved especially in such a case and after so great revolution of yeares and times therefore had the Reasoners said the like hath not for ought we read or find it had been more modest and more worthy of beliefe then to say the like never was 5 But if the like never was the Reason may be because the like Rebellion or Warre never was in the times of any his Majesties Predecessors There hath been warres in the times of his Majesties Predecessors between Party and Party who should be the right Heire and so should enjoy the Crowne or between the King and Barons for obteining and upholding each others rights and betwixt the King and the rascality of the People when those the Taile would usurp a power over the King the Head But the like Warre as this when after the King had redressed all their just grievances by so many Acts confirmed when after he had given them more of his own just Rights