Majors any otherwise but as a Member of that Honourable Court concurring with the rest and then whereas this Libeller calls it an unjust Remonstrance 't is a most just and equall Remonstrance as hath been fully proved by Master Bellamie in his Justification and Vindication of the City Remonstrance and in that Book entituled the Sectaries Anatomized and if I would give liberty to my pen I could further justifie not only the justnesse of it but the necessity of it and show demonstratively that it will never be well with this Kingdome whilst Sectaries are in places of publike trust and that the subjects of this Kingdome can never expect justice nor right whilst men of other Religions then what is established by Law are in places of power and I wonder that the Anabaptists and Sectaries should be so offended at that part of the Remonstrance when as 't is their dayly practise not by faire and just wayes God knowes but by undermining watching for iniquity laying snares for men yea going against all principles Military and Civill of Honour and of Justice to put men from places of Trust and Command of which there are many remarkable unparalleld instances and the world in due time may have a true account of them And lastly whereas 't is said presenting a Remonstrance for procuring Licence and Authority to suppresse all such as have good principles and grounds for their practises that 's most false for in the same Remonstrance against Hereticks Blasphemers Anabaptists c. they petition for the setling of Religion and Church-government according to the word of God and the example of the best Reformed Churches which Religion Church-government so built hath certainly good ground for its practise For the second I desire the Reader to observe a few things upon some of the expressions in this Pamphlet that he calls the Anabaptists and Sectaries the meek and quiet of the Land as Master Peters doth the harmlesse Anabaptists then which that there are not a more turbulent unquiet people in the world made of Salt-Peter let this Book witnesse and the language in it given the cheif Magistrate of the City with the railing seditious Libells put out dayly against the King House of Lords Assembly yea and the House of Commons too The Anabaptists of old calld themselves the meek of the Earth and said that now the promise must be fulfilled the meek shall inherite the Earth when they by bloud Rapine cruel Warrs seased on the possessions of others Secondly that these Sectaries will take things for granted and therupon passe desperate censures upon Magistrates Ministers and all when as there is no such thing but quite contrary as going on to aggravate things against my Lord Major and resemble him to wicked Ahaz c. for breaking his promise when as he performed it most punctually and conscientiously considering himself both as a Christian and as a Magistrate in such an eminent place Thirdly that these new Anabaptists as well as the old are guilty of speaking evill of dignities and bringing railing accusation in print against Powers branding the Lord Major with that brand set by God himself on wicked Ahaz this is that Lord Major of London Thomas Adams by name c. A Citizen a freind of mine having been this last summer in Cheshire and divers other Countries upon his occasions heard many Malignants say they would turne Independents for then they should not take the Covenant nor be forced to any thing but be at their liberty June the 11. I was told by a godly Citizen and a cordiall friend to the Publike that some of the Independents have said they will have their way yet whatsoever it cost them In some of the weekly news-Books I have observed passages inserted of the great love and unity in the Army between the souldiers Presbytery and Independency making no breach and in the Perfect Occurrences of the Week calld the two and twentieth Week ending the 29. of May 1646. the Pamphleter tells us 't is very observable to consider the love and unity which is among the souldiers Now I asked about that time a Chaplaine of the Army a moderate Presbyterian whether it was so and how it came about he gave me this answer through the great forbearance of the Presbyterians who suffered them to have their wills and crossed them not took all patiently and said he if the Presbyterians should not have done so but stood upon things as the Independents it had been impossible but the Army had been broken in twenty peeces many a time before this for the Sectaries are of such a proud high spirit that if they had not had their wills there would have been no peace and indeed both in Armies Assembly City there hath been that forbearing yeelding on the Presbyterian party in reference to the publike that the Independents and Sectaries if they had been in their place would never have done though it had cost the totall losse of three Kingdomes I beleeve no age nor story can parallell all things considered the Love Patience long-suffering of the Presbyterians yea the passing by and putting up so many provocations and unsufferable abuses as they have done and that from a contemptible handfull of men in comparison but that 's our comfort That the patient expectation of the poore shall not be forgotten for ever and that God will save the afflicted people but will bring downe high looks I have been assured from divers good hands as Citizens and others that the greatest thing in the City Remonstrance that the Sectaries are offended at is that about places of publike trust they take that most hainously that Sectaries should not have places of honour profit and power which clearly shewes to all the world 't is not a bare Toleration of their consciences of enjoying their own personall Estates in the Land that they seek or which would content them but they look for Preferment Rewards power to have others under them so that 't is a Domination and to be in such a condition that others may seek to them to be Tolerated that they aime at a Toleration and liberty of conscience contents them not but a Liberty of Offices and a power of great places both in Military and civill affaires they stand for Master Burroughs in the yeare 1645. both preached and printed even in that Tractate where he pleades for a Toleration That the Magistrate may to men who differ from the State in greater Errors at least deprive them of the benefits and priviledges of the State notwithstanding their pleas of conscience and in evills of lesse moment put them to some trouble in those wayes of evill so farre as to take off the wantonesse of their spirits and the neglect of meanes some trouble may be layed in the way so that men shall see there is something to be suffered in that way and there is no reason why any should be offended at this yea Master Burroughs
of one Andrew Wike p. 169 170. A Relation of a story of Katherine Chidley and her sons being at Bury in Suffolke and of Gaffer Lanceter of Bury and his Pamphlet entituled Lanceters Launcâ— p. 170. 171. A relation of a Quarter-Masters preaching and of his telling the people he had a command from the spirit to preach and was under the command of the spirit p. 172. A Relation of words spoken by a Captain in the Army concerning the decolling of the King p. 172. A Relation of a Trooper in Northhamptonshiere standing up in the Church and speaking to a Minister questioning his Doctrine as also some souldiers wounding a Ministers son in that County p. 173. A Relation of a Captaine speaking how they would come against the City of London if the House of Commons should give order so to do p. 174. A Relation of a Sectary saying of the Ordinance of Tythes the Parliament made an Ordinance to rob men and calling those Theeves and Robbers who executed it and of his arresting the Justices of Peace and the Distrainers p. 175. A Relation of an Independent Commander declaring they were against Independent Government as well as Presbyteriall if it should be settled they were for liberty of conscience that no man should be tied to any thing p. 175. Animadversions on a Libellous Pamphlet entituled The Lord Mayors farewell from his Office of Majoral-ty p. 175 176 177 178. A Relation of the true Reason why breaches have been prevented in the Army there being so many Sectaries in it namely the great forbearance patience the passing by provocations and abuses p. 179 180. A Justification of that passage in the City Remonstrance that no Sectaries should be in places of publike trust and what some of the Independents opinions was of that heretofore as most equall p. 180 181. and a laying open the necessity of the Remonstrance taking place in that and what if no Justice nor good can be expected p. 181 182. A Relation of a Discourse between a Citizen and an Independent concerning the King and of the Independents interpretation of the Covenant concerning that part of it of defending the Kings Person p. 183 184. A Relation of the Libertinisme and Atheisme of the Sectaries p. 185 186 187. A Relation of the many kinds of uncleannesses of the Sectaries as Incest c. p. 187 188 189 190. A Relation of the drunkennesse of the Sectaries p. 190 191. A Relation of the loosenesse of the Sectaries p. 191. A Relation of the Sectaries couzening and deceiving p. 191 192. A Relation of the Sectaries grosse lying and slandering p. 192. A Relation of the pride of the Sectaries and boasting in armes of flesh p. 192 193. A Relation of the Sectaries unsufferable insolencies and horrible affronts to Authority particularly 1. Against the Lawes of the Land both Common and Statute p. 194 195. 2. Against the King 195 196. 3. Against the House of Peers 196 197 198 199 200 201 202. 4. Against the House of Commons 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213. 5. Against many particular Members of both Houses by name 213 214. Against Committees of both Houses 214 215. Against both Houses as conjunct in their Authority and Power p. 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223. Against our Brethren of Scotland p. 224 225 226 227. Against the City of London p. 228 229. Against the Assembly p. 230. Against the Ministers of the Kingdome p. 230 231. Against the Reformed Churches p. 231. Against inferiour Magistrates and Courts p. 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240. Among all the wickednesses of the Sectaries the Reader may observe these six following particulars 1. How they make it their worke to destroy and overthrow Religion p. 233 234 235 236. 2. How that when the King cast himselfe into the armes of our Brethren of Scotland they wished he had gone rather to France or Ireland p. 236. 237. 3. Their evill carriage towards our Brethren of Scotland p. 237 238 239. 4. Their prodigious carriage toward the Kingdome of Ireland p. 239 240. 5. Their damnable hypocrisie and dissimulation p. 240. and that in seven particulars 6. Their contemning and abusing Gods Ministers A Relation of a Sectaries grosse couzening one to whom he owed 50. pounds the latter end of the sheet A Relation concerning some passages spoken in a Sermon by M. Knollys an Anabaptist p. 241. A Relation of some passages delivered in divers Sermons by M. Symonds p. 241 242. Animadversions on M. Burtons Conformities Deformity p. 243 244 245. Certaine Quaeries propounded to M. Burton to shew him how he is mistaken p. 247 248. A Relation concerning Green a Felt-maker that preaches in an Alley in Colemans-street p. 248 249. A Relation concerning some Letters writ to worthy Members of the House of Commons Members of the Assembly and other Ministers by godly Ministers concerning the abuses done by the souldiers in the Army p. 249 250 251 252 253 254. A Relation concerning one in Authority and what trickes and devices he used to bring one in to be a Burgesse of Parliament p. 255 256. Certaine Corollaries drawne from the Errours and Heresies laid downe in this Booke Corol. 1. Shewes that by the insolent proceedings of the Sectaries those places of Scripture in Timothy and Peter are made good and fulfilled in our Sectaries p. 256 257 258. Corol. 2. Shewes that Errors and corrupt Doctrine produce a wicked life and loosenesse of manners p. 258 259 260 261. Corol. 3. Shewes that many of the Sectaries are not onely against Church-Government but against Civill Government p. 261 262 263. Corol. 4. Shewes that our evills are not taken away but only changed p. 263. Corol. 5. Shewes into what a condition we are fallen and from what fallen that we can doe and suffer such things as we do p. 573 294. Corol. 6. Shewes what a great plague and judgement to the Land so many Sectaries in the Army are p. 265 266 267. Corol. 7. Shewes that never in any Age or any Christian State there hath been such a sufferance and Toleration as hath been and is in our Kingdome p. 268. 269 270. Corol. 8. Shewes that the Sectaries though they will receive Liberty of Conscience yet they will not give it to others where they have power p. 271 272. Corol. 9. Shews as in a glasse the true cause of all our present evills to be a love of Sectarisme and Errours p. 27. Corol. 10. Shewes well-meaning men should learne to be undeceived p. 278. A Postscript in which the Reader hath an account given him of many Pamphlets put forth against Mr. Edwards since he writ the second part of Gangraena and some brief Animadversions upon them all as M. Burroughs Vindication Gangraena playes Rex M. Saltmarsh's Shadowes flying away c. A Relation of the Names and of the Speeches and doings of the principall Independents and Sectaries spoken of in this Booke Mr. Jesse page 19. 82. 85. Mr.
but many not only one page but divers pages prove these Errors the whole scope of many books and pamphlets being to maintain these eight or nine Positions last mentâ—oned and for the Readers satisfaction I referre him to these Pamphlets hereafter named An Alarum to the House of Lords against their insolent usurpation of the Commons Liberties A Remonstrance of many thousand Citizens and other free-borne People of England to their own House of Commons A Defiance against all Arbitrary usurpations and encroachments either of the House of Lords or any other The just mans justification A Pearle in a dunghill or Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in Newgate An Arrow against all Tyrants and Tyranny The free mans Freedom vindicated The just man in Bonds or Leiutenant Colonell Lilburne in Newgate Arguments proving we ought not to part with the Militia to any other but to the Honourable House of Commons A Petition and Appeale of Overton to the High and Mighty States the Knights and Burgesses in Parliament assembled A Petition of Leiutenant Colonell Lilburns wife to the chosen and betrusted Knights The Copy of a Letter sent by Leituenant Col. Lilburne to Master Wollaston keeper of Newgate Queries to find out who t is that holds out against the state of England The last warning to all the inhabitants of London In which and divers others he shall read Principles so destructive to all Government whatsoever Democraticall as well as Monarchicall and Aristoâ—taticall that the like are not to be found in the writings of the old Anabaptists neither ever did the old Anabaptists when they were in the power of Princes and States and brought before their bars ever carry themselves with that scorn and height of contempt towards them as Lilburne Overton and other Sectaries have done to that High and Supreame Court of Judicature the House of Peers And certainly if these Assertions and Positions about Magistracy and Civill Government were true and necessary then all the Acts Lawes Proceedings Processes of former Parliaments and of this present Parliament with the proceedings of all kind of Magistrates and Inferiour Courts are uncertain questionable yea unlawfull void and Null all who have suffered by Sentences of Courts of Justice have suffered unjustly all who possesse any thing as Lands Houses Debts by judgements of Courts have no Title to them all men who exercise any power of Rule and Government over others are usurperâ— intruders and they may say I never chose the men that made these Lawes upon which I was proceeded against and such verdicts given I never gave my consent that such men should be Judges Justices of Peace Sheriffs Juries or that such Courts should be erected yea these principles do bring in to this Kingdom and all other Nations all kind of confusion and Anarchy overthrow all ancient bounds rancks orders differences of persons and things as rich and poor Magistrats and people servants and masters bound and free and reduce all things back to unsetlement uncertainties perplexities and that as often as mens humours please and indeed keep all things from a possibility of being otherwise and all rationall wise men who understand the nature of Government and Common-wealths must needs confesse as much and that I may even to weak men deceived with specious pretences discover the weaknesse and folly of divers of the later Positions I commend these following particulars to the Readers serious consideration 1. These men who deny to the Peers of this Kingdom the Title of Lords and say 'T is not proper to Christians but a mark of the Gentiles yet they give to the Commons greater Titles as High and Mighty the Titles of Emperours and Monarchies and to the common people Majesty Kingship Soveraigne Lord yea give Gods Title calling the people Creators and Kings Lords their meer creatures 2. Instead of Legall Rights and the Lawes and Customes of this Nation the Sectaries talk of and plead for naturall Rights and Liberties such as men have from Adam by birth and in many of their Pamphlets they still speak of being governed by Right reason so that look now as they do in matters of Religion and Conscience they fly from the Scriptures and from supernaturall truths revealed there that a man may not be questioned for going against them but only for Errors against the light of nature and right reason So they do also in Civill Government and things of this life they go from the Lawes and Constitutions of Kingdoms and will be governed by rules according to nature and right reason and though the Lawes and Customes of a Kingdom be never so plain and cleer against their wayes yet they will not submit but cry out for naturall Rights derived from Adam and right reason 3. According to all principles of Justice and Right reason who is fittest to judge in such and such cases what is according to right reason whether every Delinquent and ignorant Mechanick cald in question for if that may be allowed farewell all justice none shall be punished nor innocent righted or the Rulers Judges and setled Authority of a Land Is it not rationally to be supposed that those Ancestors who founded a Government for such a Nation and those who have followed in a Succession having yeelded to and setled such Lawes could better judge of right reason what was for the good of such a Nation and accordingly made Lawes then every mean man who knows no reason of Lawes and States nor is capable of Government and the true nature of it neither conceives the Government of Nations in reference to other Nations nor in reference to the body of the people but Ship passengers and all might be split upon many rocks if such unskilful Pilots had the steering 4. T is certain all Nations and people though all came from Adam have not the same Lawes Customes Constitutions of Government and so are not nor cannot be alike â—ree There is a liberty left in Commonwealths to frame and mould them as shall be judged most convenient and all are not tied to one Rule this the Independents grant when they deny it in the Government of the Church and seeing men are borne and live in different Climates Countries and are of severall Manners Dispositions Constitutions Educations the same Lawes Customes kind of Government would not be for the good of all but what would fit one and be usefull would not serve another some are of a more servile Disposition some of a harsher stubborner nature some of a gentler freer nature some people are situated in Islands some upon the Continent some have such neighbours of such a temper others have not some Countries wholly subsists on such commodities others subsist in another way and so many such differences might be given now whether Customes and Laws necessary for such a people founded on the proper reason and nature of such a place and people be proper for all I leave to wise men to judge M. Peters that great Sectarian
statesman in his Polit. tels us The same Last will not fit an English and a Scottish foot The English must be ruled more by love Now if two nations so neer in one Iland are not alike free but must be differently governed then certainly Nations remote from one another are not alike free Besides to particular persons yea bodies of people many providences accidents may fal out to make one and the same people and particular persons not so free as sometimes they have been there are some Parents who were free but having incurred the Law are tainted in bloud so their children also some are taken captivs or have sold themselves for a necessity and so their children are servants to A nation having bin saved by some Prince from ruine though before a free state may now make him and his Heirs according to such Lawes King over them nay Amesius in his Cases of Conscience saith It cannot be denied but that a people forced by necessity may sell themselves to a King to be all his servants Gen. 47. 23. 5. T is apparent that in one and the same Nation as England all the subjects have not the same priviledges and freedoms but some have more then others some are not liable to be pressed to war to bare such Offices serve in Juries c. as others are some have voices viz. Freeholders to chuse Knights of Shires others have not some Cities Towns have Charters and large priviledges in severall particulars to send Burgesses to Parliament which other Towns have not and certainly the Peerage of England have priviledges and liberties which every Jack-straw hath not 6. I demand of the Sectaries whether in their Pamphlets speaking of election and consent they meane an immediate present choyce and consent of the present men now to be governed or else an election consent in the first constitution of this Kingdom and Government by our Ancestors many hundred yeers ago Now if they mean this last how do they know but that this Government wherein the King and Lords have such a power was by consent and agreement it being consented such a man should be King and such persons Nobles who by birth should have such power and then such people according to such agreements should have power to chuse some men who together with King and Nobles should make Laws by which the Nation governed the King should have such power Nobles such priviledges and people such liberties but now if they meane the first an immediate election of the present peopl that they are to obey none but so chosen 't is most false and a principle destructive to the sundamentall government of this Kingdom and destroying the House of Commons as well as the King and Lords and for the clearing of that I would propound two things 1. That in this Common-wealth of England none have any power of Government at all either in a lower or higher Sphere either by election of the whole body of the people for all chuse not but some onely or founded upon election as the sole cause and ground for none of the people can chuse neither are men capable to be chosen till according to Lawes Writs are granted forth or Charters given by Princes and Lawes to such Corporations and yet then the peopl must go in chusing not according to their wills but to such rules agreed on by Laws and after men are chosen some conditions also and rules must be observed before the persons so chosen have power of government these chosen Commons must be returned and sworne take such oaths before they can â—it or if they do their election is ipso factâ— nul and they made uncapable ever to fit again so that t is evident that election of some part of the people not the whole is only a partiall cause not the totall and plenary cause or rather the true cause is because such a man according to Lawes and Customes of this Kingdome is now in such a place whereof one of the conditions for such a place is election so and so determined by former Lawes but now in many Officers of this Kingdome who have power of government to heare judge and do many Acts no sort of the common people have any power at all to chuse as in Justices of Peace they have been alwayes and still are made without any such election so the Judges of the Land Sheriffs with divers other Officers and therefore much more may the King and Peers who by the fundamentall Lawes of the Land have an heredâ—tary power in Parliament to which the Kingdom hath agreed and yeelded obedience so many hundred yeers exercise their power without any electon of the people 2. That certainly people are bound and tied to Lawes Rules as well as Kings and Nobles and that Covenants Compacts Oaths of Allegiance c. made on their part bind them as well as Princes oaths I ever took it for granted that Princes had not been bound and their people left at liberty and freedome to do what they pleased I alwayes thought fundamentall constitutions of Government made many hundred yeers before and ancient bounds set by Lawes with birth-right inheritance having gone through an uninterrupted succession of many Pâ—ogenitors had been a right and interest to Princes which the meer will and pleasure of common people could not have taken from them and I conceive that according to the conssitution and Lawes of this Kingdome which gives all sorts their rights though some more some lesse 't is agreed on that the Peers of this Land should have a Legislative and judiciall power and they and their heirs be in such ranck born with such and such priviledges over others 7. This Position of the Sectaries the Universal people having such a power without whose election all Government is void their Dagon and great Image which they fall down before and worship is a meer Chimâ—ra a monstrum horrendum a Babell which I could shatter and break so to peeces as not one stone should be left of it nor so much as the stump but I may not now give all my thoughts for feare of being too voluminous only I will hint a few things in this place by way of Question and referre the Reader to what I further say in page 154 155. c. 1. I Desire to know of these Sectaries what or who is this state Universall whether all the men women and children born in England men-servants maid-servants poore people and beggars together with those of the better sort and whether if all these or the greater part of these taken one equally as well as th' other be the state universall have they the like Soveraigne power over the King and Parliament 2. Whether in what this state Uuniversall will do with the King Lords and their owne House of Commons it must be carried by the most voices of this state universall so that if all the beggars poor people servants children be a
them and so came away letting them do as they would At another time there being Poultrie provided by the good woman of the house for their diet which she killed with wringing their neeks about as the custome of the Country is these souldiers would not have them dressed but threw them away and fecht others cuting of their heads for they would not eate things strangled and such was the carriage of these Sectaries that though John Mathewes be a man well affected to the Parliament and well disposed yet he professed he had rather have Prince Rupert and his Company to quarter there then that Troop of Captaine P. A Copie of a Letter written lately from a Reverend godly Minister in Northamptonshire to a person of quality and worth in London Worthy SIR THough I am perswaded that you know that many Errors abound in the Army yet I cannot think but such destructive tenets as some of them have broacht amongst us when they lately quartered here are not particularly come unto your eares Therefore out of zeal to Gods glory the safty of our Church and Commonwealth Parliament and Ministry I could not but impart what I have heard from their own mouthes and by honest neighbours of them The sacred Covenant bindes me with all faithfulnesse to indeavour to discover Incendiaries hinderers of Reformation of Religion dividers of the Kingdomes c. And truly I cannot think these any other though as yeâ— God hath hindred their sparks which they cast into all the straw which they passe by from flaming into open and violent liscord I can produce both the names and I think sufficient witnesse people are affraid almost to speak against the souldiers that they have seriously spoken as being their judgements and purposes that if the souldiers knew the Countries minds as the Country might know the souldiers they would have another kind of Reformation then this Parliament is about That they have not so long sought for liberty and now to be inslaved That they could goe all England through by force of Arms if they listed That the Country might call the Parliament to account for what they had done for they were set up by them They commonly in derision call our Brethren Jack Sect and say they plot with the King against the Parliament but if there were any occasion of drawing the sword against them they would be more fierce against them then ever against the Cavaleirs They upon long dispure with me cominued in this that there is no such office as the Ministry and it 's blasphemy for any one to say that he is a Minister of Jesus Christ more then any other man such an office was but it ceased A Captaine Reformadoe said their swords shall never out of their hands as long as one Priest continued in England They scorned all our religious dayes and duties call them fools that pay Tythes and them theeves that receive them will beleeve no more Scripture then what they prove by experience to be true I might have heard more but that my heart abhors such seditious and blaspemous speeches They speake most contemptibly of Christs person and as I heare deny either the Trinity or at least the holy Ghost If it be for any publick benefit I will search after more particulars and sufficient proof Sir I am bold to impart my troubled thoughts unto you whom I have cause to judge faithfull to God your Country and your Friend Truly we fear some hurt by these in Arms if a speedy course be not taken with some of them for I find that they stick not to their principle of Liberty but only in receiving it they will not give it if they had the power of giving it unto others For ought I can observe with all their Errours they labour to poyson others where they come My mind will be much satisfied when I shall know you have read these lines concluding my duty of discovering Incendiaries c. discharged till further occasions be offered The good Lord look upon us and save us from these instruments of safety I desire your spirituall health and comfort with all temporall happinesse and successe Sept. 24. 1646. Yours to be commanded A godly young man of Summersetshire or Dorsâ—tshire at whose house a Lieutenant of a Company of Sir Thomas Fairfax Army quartered told me that this Lieutenant maintained these Opinions 1 That women might preach and would have had a gentlewomâ—n in the house this young mans sister to have exercised her gifts telling her he knew she had gifts and had been alone a meditating 2. That if a womans husband was aâ—leep or absent from her she might lye with another man and it was lawfull for sleep was a death and pressed it upon a young Gentlewoman in the house whose husband was then at London 3. That it was unlawâ—ull to kneell in prayer which was maintained by him or some others of his company and when they prayed they prayed leaning There is a godly Minister of some place more then ordinary that was in the Army about Oxford who heard a Colonell of that Army speak it in his hearing and the hearing of many that as for fighting against the Irish he was against it for they did nothing but what they might do lawfully and gave his reasons and grounds for it 1. Because they did but fight for their Religion and Liberty of conscience and for their Lands and Estates 2. That if the whole Commons and body of the people would agree and put down King and Parliament overthrow the Constitution of this Kingdom in King Lords and Commons they might do it as this was told two godly Ministers from whom I had this relation so was it communicated to some members of both Houses June 24. A godly Citizen told me he heard a great Sectary that belonged to the Army say speaking of Ireland he doubted and so did many more in the Army whether it were lawfull to go fight against the Irish and that that Country was theirs as well as England was ours Though the boldnesse and presumption of many of the Souldiers Officers and common Souldiers hath been very great both against the command of God and the Parliament to preach in the open Churches in all Countries and places where they have come putting by many godly and able Ministers from their Office and invading their Pulpits yet their open and frequent preaching in the University of Oxford doth most of all declare their impudencie that they should dare to do it in the midst of so many learned men and in a place so famous for learning and that in the publike schools in Oxford to preach daily and that against humane learning as they did for some time and after complaint of it to the Generall as a thing so scandalous and odious to all ingenuous men and his forbidding their preaching in the Schools yet the Souldiers continue still to preach in Oxford daily in a great house
present you with these rude lines It doth not a little rejoyce me that providence hath so disposed of it as to bring you down into this dark corner of the Kingdome It is my desire for you to the Throne of Grace that God would cure that weaknesse of body under which your spirit hath so long travelled and that he would give you such strength and utterance of spirit whereby you may be able to declare unto the world the glory and the â—iâ—hes of the good newes of Jesus Christ which he hath manifested to your soule John saith That which wee have seen with our eyes and our eares have â—eard and our hands have handled even the word of life that declare we unto you Such kinde of preaching and declarations of Christ from experience of it in the heart the Friests of England but especially of these Westerne parts are unacquanted withall I should account it a happinesse if God would so dispose of it as to open such a way that I might have relation to you as formerly That small remnant of the Saints in this Town will be very joyfull to see you here and so shall he that desires to be Your servant in any office of love Robert Carye Dartmouth June 12. 1646. THere is one Sims of Hampton a Shoomaker as appeares by the following Examination and a Letter presently following who goes about as an Emisâ—ary all the West over from place to plâ—â—e to infect the people who at Bridgwater in Summersetshire being apprehended by some in authority was examined and divers Letters found about him written by severall Sectaries to the Saints as they call them in Taunton and elsewhere this examination and Letters were sent up to a person of worth then in London and that Gentleman gâ—ve the 〈…〉 me so that I have the Originall Letters by me The Examination of John Sims Shoomaker SOnday the last of May preached in the Parish Church of Middlâ—sâ—y took his Text out of the 3. Col. 1. One Master Mercer and Master Esquier Ministers with a hundred more persons and being desired to know how he durst presâ—â—e to â—â—ach so publikely being not called and an Ordinance of Parliament to the contrary Answered if Peter was called so was he 2. Being desiâ—ed to know what he teached contrary to the law of God and the lawes of the Land answ 〈…〉 why are they suffered to teach in London so neer the Parliament House and that he would allow of the Parliament is for forth as they goâ— with his Doctrine 3. Being desired to know whether he allowed of our Baptisme answered no that for his part he was baptized a year since by one Master Sickmoore and his manner of Baptisings was that the aforesaid Sickmoore went first into the water and he after him so that he for his part would not allow of our Baptisme The Letters taken about him To the Saints in the Order and fellowship of the Gospel in Taunton Your deare Brother Thomas Collier desireth the increase of grace and peace from God the Father and from out Lord Jesus Christ Deare Brethren and Sisters I have not had an opportunity of writing unto you untill now although my spirit hath been up to the Lord for your continually The Lord hath manifested his presence with me exceedingly in my journy I desire the Lord to raise up your heart in thankfullnesse he hath gathered Saints in Poole by me 14. took up the Ordinance at once there is like to be a great work and confirmed the Churches in other places I am not yet got so far as London but I shall I expect to morrow Dearely beloved my desire and prayer to our Father on your behalf is that your soules may be satisfied with his fullnesse that you may live above and then your soules shall not want comfort And my exhortation to you is to wait upon the Lord in his own way and not to look forth into the world there is bread enough in your Fathers hâ—use There he hath promised his presence though you seem to want gifts yet you shall not want the presence of your Father your Jesus if you wait upon him There are two Brethren I suppose will visit you from Hampton Brother Sims and Brother Row whom desire you to receive as from the Lord. The 〈…〉 ted power of the Plesbyterians is denyed them of which you shall heare more shortly I desire to be remembred to all my kind friends with you and at present rest Gilford April 20. 1646. Your deare Brother in the faith and fellowship of the Gospel Thomas Collier I shall see you as speedily as possible I may To the Saints in the order and fellowship of the Gospel MY deare ones in the Lord Jesus I salute you desireing him who is our head and husband our life and liberty our all and in all to gather up our soules more abundantly into the glorious unity and fellowship of the Son of God that you may not live upon these lower things which are but instruments to conveigh light â—nd love unto us I meane even Ordinances or the like which indeed are but as a shell without the kernell further then wee enjoy Christ in it My deare ones you are in my heart continually and my desire is to be with you as soon as posible I can to impart some spirituall gifts unto you and to enjoy fellowship with Jesus Christ in you but what is this your are upon the heart of Christ nay ingraven upon his hand and shall be had in everlasting remembrance before him I am much in haste at present the Post being coming forth of Town only I have sent you these few lines and two Books here inclosed as a remembrance of my love I desire to be remembred to all my deare friends with you and at present rest and remaine Your deare Brother in the faith and fellowship of the Gospell Tho. Collier London May 2. 1646. To his Friend William Heynton Buttler in the Castle at Taunton these DEare Brother in the Lord Jesus Christ with the rest of our deare friends with you my kind love remembrd my desire to you is that you will receive this bearer Master Reeves as a deare friend for he is a Member in the order and fellowship of the Gospel with the Saints in Taunton I need not tell you of the oppositions here in Taunton our Brother will tell you the particular passages our Governour does labour to beat us down and doth say that any meeting in private is meerly to crosse the publike meetings and that it is not out of tendernesse of conscience but damnable pride that we do but this doth not any way cause us to draw back or sadden our spirits for our spirits are carried above the feare of men All our friends are in good health so I remaine Your deare Brother William Hayward May 16. 1646. MOst kind and loving Brethren and Sisters in the Lord Jesus my indeared love remembred unto all the Saints unto
uncleane c. Now by this the Reader may see the Sectaries agree not some excluding the Lords from all power because not chosen by the universality of the people others excluding the Commons from their power because chosen by the universall people so that according to Master Goodwins doctrine the Lords being of Noble Parentage and well bred not chosen by the rifâ—e raffe of the people Atheists Drunkards the prophane world may be fitter and have more Authority to nominate and appoint who shall be the men that shall order the affaires of Christs Kingdome then the Commons And thus have I set the Pharises and Sadduces one against the other Secondly I propound some Queres to Lilburne Overton c. to Answer against I set forth a fourth part of Gangraena 1. Quere If all subjection and obedience to Governors be founded only upon the parties immediate present election of them and not other wise whether then may any obedience so much as to appeare before answer any questions or submit be given to Justices of Peace Judges Keepers of the great Seale Sheriffs Committees c. who are not chosen by the people 2. Whether any obedience respect coming without resistance upon Warrants sent for may be performed to Majors of Townes or Deputy Majors not chosen by the Town where they serve but appointed by Ordinance of Parliament 3. Whe her if men remove from one Town to another where they had no hand in chusing Majors and Magistrates must they demand a liberty and power to chuse them before they will obey any of their commands and whether must all the young youths of a Town when they come to twenty one years â—or years of subjecting demand in the places where they live a power of chusing Aldermen or Burgesses of Townes before they can submit to them 4. Whether does not a constitution of a Government for such a people and Nation made by the wisdome of Ancestors some hun-hundred years before though not by election of the people one in every year or seven or more but founded upon such and such good Lawes and in succession of persons by birth and inheritance bind a people to obey and subject as well as if chosen by them 5. Suppose in formes of civill Government and constitution of Kingdomes every particular were not so good and exact as might be desired by some and possibly might be yet whether is not a peoples submitting and accepting that forme of Government many years togethera consenting to it and equivalent to a formall Election There is one John Price an Exchange man Cretensis beloved Disciple and one of his Prophets who among others preach for him when he hath any Book to Answer or some Libertine Tractate to set forth This man hath put forth three Pamphlets one about Independencies the other two Replyes or Answers one to the City Remonstrane the other to a Vindication of the Remonstrance in all which he shewes himself to be Schollar to Cretensis and somewhat allyed to Lilburne Overton and the rest of those Sectaries who give all the supreame power of this Kingdome to the House of Commons For in his City Remonstrance Remonstrated and in his moderate Reply he is against the City Remonstrance for giving only a share of the supreame power to the House of Commons and instead of three Estates the King Lords and Commons of which the fundamentall Constitution of the Government of this Kingdome is made up he holds there is but one and that the Commons for which hee gives his Reasons such as they be and puts Queres to the Author of the Justification of the City Remonstrance their scope being all along to give the whole supreame power and not only a part to the Commons Certainly these Books of Master Price were not written in the yeare 1645. but in the yeare 1646. that they agree so with Lilburne Overton c. And if I should use his Master Goodwins Argument against him here I wonder how hee would answer it Those who are chosen by the generality of the Land Worldlings drunkards uncleane persons are not fit to have the whole supreame power of the Kingdome and neither King nor Lords to have any part with them But so are the Commons of England chosen Ergo. Now both the major and the minor are his Tutor Goodwins only the major is stronger as I put it for if according to Master Goodwin because they are chosen by the Common people and not only by Saints they are uncapable of a part of the supreame power because there is an impossibility of a spirituall extraction out of a secular root then much more should they not have the whole supreame power And as this man is bold with the power of the King and Lords to exchange it and give it to the Commons so he is with the City the Court of Common-Councell calling the City Remonstrance made by the Common-Councell the disturber of the quiet and peace of the Church and State c. And so in page 13. 22. there are passages aspersing the Remonstrance and the Common-Councell This Master Price contents not himself to preach only in London but I heare of him by a godly Minister who was lately at Edmunds-Bury that he hath preached there in a house and a godly judicious Citizen told me and some others that he maintained to him some dangerous and hereticall opinions as that men might be saved who were not elected and that if men did improve nature well God would surely give them grace So that it seems this Exchange man sells other wares besides Independency and Separation and does as the Apostle Peter speaks with fained words make marchandize of mens soules Master Price also I suppose this Price was at a meeting here in London where some of severall Sects Seekers Antinomians Anabaptists Brownists Independents met with some Presbyterians to consider how all these might live together notwithstanding their severall opinions and he was as all the Sectaries were for a generall Toleration and they agreed together like buckle and thong only the Presbyterians were not satisfied There is one Master Cradock who came out of Wales and is going thither again to be an Itinerary Preacher whom I have spoken of in page 131. that hee declined coming to the Assembly but now lately October 14. seeing the pay could not be had without the concurrence of the Lords and in all this time having made some leading men his friends hee came to be examined and is passed but besides that he hath gathered a Church administring the Lords Supper in a house at evening he hath preached many odd things in the City straines tending to Antinomianisme Libertinisme as speaking against men of an old Testament spirit and how poore Drunkards and Adulterers could not look into one of our Churches but hell fire must be flashed in their faces That if a Saint should commit a grosse sinne and upon the committing of it should be startled at it
Person and Authority and to maintain His just power and greatnesse the Independent replyed presently what was his just power suppose saith this Independent there were a theife and you should make a Covenant with him to maintaine his just priviledges what of that might you not for all that bring him to punishment labouring to bring him to the Gallows were his just priviledges and no breach of Covenant whereupon said this Citizen Is this your interpretation of the Covenant I would never have taken it whilst the world stood in that sense and further said this Citizen when this Covenant was made and sworne what ever you can say against the King as raising Wars against the Parliament and what ever else you imagine It was before this Covenant was taken you knew as much of him before as now so that t is strange you should speak so And then this Citizen reasoned with this Independent against punishing the King David was guilty of Murther and Adultery and there were then Elders of the people Princes and Judges in Israel as well as now and yet none of them offered to question David upon his life or inflict punishment neither do we find that God by the prophets gave any such direction to punish David though by the Law death was due for Murther to other men we know God sent the prophet Nathan to reprove him and to bring him to repentance for his great sinne but not to stirre up the Princes Judges and Elders of the people to proceed against him as they did against Malefactors A Relation and Discovery of the Libertinisme and Atheisme horrible fearfull uncleannesses of severall kinds Drunkunnesse generall Loosenesse and licentiousnesse of living Cosening and Deceiving both of particular persons and of the State and Kingdome fearfull Lying Jugling and falsifying of promises abominable Pride and boasting in the Arms of flesh unsufferable Insolencies and horrible misdemeanors of many Sectaries of these times particularly their Insolencies against the Lawes of the Land the King the House of Lords House of Commons some particular worthy Members by name of both Houses Committees of both Houses both Houses of Parliament as conjunct in their Authority and Ordinances against our Brethren of Scotland the Kingdom of Ireland the City of London the Assembly the whole Ministery of this Kingdom and all the Reformed Churches against inferior Magistrates and Courts as the Judges Justices of Peace Majors of Cities Committes and all sorts of Officers of Justice THe Particulars in all these kinds are so many and so infinite that particularly to reckon them up and give their story would fill a great volume and I have already in the foregoing part of the Book given some instances in most of them and therefore I shall but breifly point at and give hints only upon these severall heads referring the Reader for further satisfaction to many Pamphlets and Books daily printed and openly sold and to his own observation of things 1. The great Libertinisme and Atheisme of many Sectaries appears by their violent and feirce pleading for by word and writing a free Liberty and Toleration of all kind of Religions and Consciences whatsoever and that not only in lesser points of Doctrine but in the most fundamentall Articles of Faith yea and of denying the Scriptures and that there is a God and by the pleading for Liberty in such away and by such mediums viz. that no man is infallible and certaine in any thing he holds that t is possible he may be mistaken c. as do necessarily overthrow all Religion whatsoever There have been within these few yeers some scores of Books written wholly for Toleration and pretended Liberty and some hundred of Books wherein that 's pleaded for together with other things and so farre are the Sectaries gone in Libertinisme * that all true love piety Religion conscience is placed in a generall allowance of what mens corrupted and defiled consciences like and the greatest sinne wickednesse evill that men can commit or be capable of is placed in the using of good means and the power God hath given to hinder and restraine this Liberty There is a Book called Toleration justified printed 1646. asserteth t is not safe to put any bounds to Toleration or to restraine in any thing whatsoever no not in denying the Scriptures and a Deity There is a Pamphlet A Demurre to the Bill for preventing the growth and spreading of Heresie that came out lately since that Ordinance against Heresies was brought in to the H. of Commons that pleads page 3. with many Libertine Arguments against all punishing of those that maintaine there is no God as among others with this We beseech you let not God and the truth of his being be so excessively dispâ—raged as not to be judged sufficient to maintaine it against all gainsayers without the helpe of any earthly power to maintaine it Let Turks and those that beleeve in strange gods which are 〈…〉 gods make use of such power and infirme supporters of their supposed d 〈…〉 s but let the truth of our God the only God the omnipotent God be judged abundantly able to support it self t is a tacit imputation of in 〈…〉 s to imagine it hath need of our weake and impotent assistance There are Queres concerning a printed Paper entituted An Ordinane for the preventing and growing of Heresies c. where among many Libertine questions the second proclaims it self to be Scepticall and Athâ—isticall supposing except men make themselves infallible that the preaching printing and maintaining contrary to these Doctrines That God is that God is present in all places that God is Almighty that God is eternall perfectly holy c. may be the sacred truths of God for ought any man knowes There have beene and are daily many strange speeches uttered wholly tending to Libertinisme and Atheisme A Reverend godly Minister told me July the fourth 1646. he heard and Independent say what if I should worship the Sunne or the Moone as the Persians did or that Pewter Pot standing by what hath any man to do with my conscience A great Sectary pleaded in the hearing of persons of worth from whom I immediately had it for a Toleration of Stage-playes and that the Players might be set up againe I heard a Sectary plead for a Toleration of Witches and I urging that argument that Witches might say they in their conscience hold the Devill for their God and thereupon worship him it was answered that precept against not suffering Wirches was spoken to the Israelites not to us and will you because Witches deale with a familiar spirit therefore send them to the Devill by taking away their lives Many Sectaries often say that all the judgements of God upon us are because we will not receive the Government of of Christ suffer it to be set up among us viz. to let every one beleeve what he will and serve God according to his conscience as also they say if ever
said of them and justly too For what other have they been but a meer clog to the House of Commons in all their proceedings How many necessary things have they obstructed How many evill things promoted What devices have they had of Prudentialls and Expedients to delay and pervert what is good and subtle policies to introduce things evill The Pamphlet call'd An Alarum to the House of Lords pag. 4. speaking of the Lords imprisoning Lilburne and removing him from Newgate to the Tower of London saith Whether to murther him privately from the peoples knowledge we cannot tell but we judge little lesse And in pag. 5. speaking of the Lords giving order that none must see Lilburne in the Tower but they must first given in their names the places of their habitation uses these words An act so unreasonable and destructive to us that we cannot but take notice of it and let you know That we cannot neither will we suffer such intolerable affronts at your hands If timely cautions will not availe with you you must expect to be bridled for wee are resolved upon our naturall Rights and Freedomes and to be enslaved to none how Magnificent soever with rotten Titles of Honor. For doe you imagine there is none abroad of his mind who though he were dead and destroyed by you would prosecute those works and discoveries of the Peoples Rights which hee hath begun Yes more then you are aware of that can nay and are resolved to paint forth your Interest to the life if you will not content your selves the sooner with what 's your owne and leave the Commoners to the Commons The Remonstrance of many thousands to their own House of Commons pag. 6 7. speaks thus to them Yee must also deale better with us concerning the Lords then you have done Ye onely are chosen by us the People and therefore in you onely is the power of binding the whole Nation by making altering or abolishing of Lawes Ye have therefore prejudiced us in acting so as if ye could not make a Law without both the Royall assent of the King so ye are pleased to expresse your selves and assent of the Lords What is this but to blind our eyes that we should not know where our power is lodged nor to whom we apply our selves for the use thereof but if we want a Law wee must await till the King and Lords assent yet ye knowing their assent to be meerly formall as having no root in the choyce of the people from whom the power that is just must be derived do frequently importune their assent which implies a most grosse absurdity For where their assent is necessary and essentiall they must be as free as you to assent or dissent as their understanding and consciences shall guide them and might as justly importune you as you them Ye ought in conscience to reduce this case also to a certainty and not to waste time and open your counsels and be liable to so many obstructions as ye have beene But to prevail with them enjoying their Honors and possessions to be liable and stand to be chosen for Knights and Burgesses of the people as other the Gentry and Free-men of this Nation doe which will be an obligation upon them as having one and the lame interest then also they would be distinguished by their vertue and love to the Common-wealth whereas now they Act and Vote in our Affairs but as Intruders or as thrust upon us by Kings to make good their Interests which to this day have beene to bring us into a â—lavish condition to their wills Lilburne in his F 〈…〉 s freedome Vindicated p. 7 8 9. speaks thus I must be forced to dâ—nce atâ—endance contrary to Law to answer a Charge without for 〈…〉 or fashion in Law at the Barre of the House of Peeres who know very well or at least might know that I knew as well as any of themselves their power jurisdiction and Prerogative Fountaine from whence they spring and calls the Lords the meere Creature of the peoples Creature the King and the common people the earthly Lord and Creator of the Lords Creator and saith that in the Honorable House of Commons alone by right resides the formall and legall supreme power of England Overton in his Arrow shot into the Prerogative Bowels of the Arbitrary House of Lords as he calls it showes page 10. how he denied subjection to the Lords affirming that if their Officers had shâ—wn a thousand such Warrants to him as they did he would have accounted them all illegall Antimagisteriall and void in Law as having no power over Commoners which are not their Peeres and thereupon stirs up the people to Arme themselves fortifie their houses to â—eat wound and kill their officers that come to fetch them before the Lords and then turnes his speech to the House of Commons Why therefore should you of the Representative body sit still and suffer these Lords thus to devoure both us and our Lawes Be awakned arise and consider their oppressions and encroachments and stop their Lordships in their ambitious careere for they doe not cease only here but they soare higher and higher and now they are become Arrogators to themselves of the naturall soveraignity the Represented have conveyed and issued to their proper Representors even challenge to themselves the title of the supremest Court of judicature in this Land and in page 11 12. Overton saith further Therefore the Soveraigne power extending no further then from the Represented to the Representors al this kind of soveraignity challenged by any whether of King Lords or others is usurpation illegitimate and illegall and none of the Kingdomes or peoples neither are the people thereto obliged Thus seeing the Legislative power is only from the Represented to the Representors and cannot possibly further extend the power of the King cannot be Legislative but only Executive and hee can communicate no more then hee hath himself so that his meere Prerogative creatures cannot have that which their Lord and Creator never had hath or can have namely the Legislative power Indeed all other Courts might as well challenge that Prerogative of Soveraignity yea better then this Court of Lords But and if any Court or Courts in this Kingdome should arrogate to themselves that dignity to be the Supreme Court of Judicatory of the Land it would be judged no lesse then high treason to wit for an inferior subordinate power to advance and exalt it selfe above the power of the Parliament The same Overton in a Pamphlet entituled A Defiance against all Arbitrary usurpations either of the House of Lords or any other page 5. saith And though I be in their Prerogative clutches and by them unjustly cast into the prison of Newgate for standing for my owne and my Countries rights and freedomes I care not who lets them know that I acknowledge nonâ— other to be the Supreme Court of Judicature of this Land but the House of