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A94178 A loyall subjects beliefe, expressed in a letter to Master Stephen Marshall, Minister of Finchingfield in Essex, from Edward Symmons a neighbour minister, occasioned by a conference betwixt them. With the answer to his objections for resisting the Kings personall will by force of armes. And, the allegation of some reasons why the authors conscience cannot concurre in this way of resistance with some of his brethren. Symmons, Edward. 1643 (1643) Wing S6345; Thomason E103_6; ESTC R212787 94,533 112

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you but of two one a precept and another an example the first is Esay 50.10 whoever feares the Lord when he is in darkenesse and hath no light that is Es 50.10 in such great streightes and deep dangers that he can see no glimpse of deliverance from the creatures no hopes of escape let him namely at such a time trust in the name of the Lord and stay himselfe upon his God O! Master M. when shall wee live by faith if not in such a Condition The second warrant is the example of David in the wildernesse of Maon Saul had beset him round hee was in a great distresse 1 Sam. 23.26 27. fly hee could not from his Prince fight he durst not against his Prince what shall he doe He stayed himselfe upon his God who appeared to his helpe by diverting the King to a businesse of better consequence a messenger comes all on the suddaine and brings him word the Philistines had invaded his Land Ob. But suppose the Prince sets upon me in mine owne House and I therein am able to defend my selfe which perhaps David in his distresse was not why may I not so do and trust to Gods Assistance that way my House is my Castle Answ I yeild your house is and may be your Castle to defend you against any private Person but whether against your Leige Lord the King or no I question or if the Law yeilds you this that the House which was left you by your predecessors be your owne and the weapons therein which you bought with your owne money be solely yours for your defence and for that purpose you may use them But not forgetting your similitude suppose you be in your fathers or masters House and the weapons therein be his weapons whether you may keep his owne house or use his owne weapons against himselfe Hoc restat probandum Ob. But shall I yeild my throat to be cut then I shall be guilty of selfe-murder Answ It doth not follow that if you yeild to your Prince in such a case that your throat must needs be cut for we read of some that by faith stopped the mouth of Lions Heb. 11.34 and escaped the edge of the sword God is able and will if you pray and trust to him by your yeilding to your offended and displeased Prince mollify his heart towards you as hee did Sauls heart to David Labans to Iacob at one time and Esau's towards him at another O deare Sir have wee beene preaching faith and patience thus many yeares to others and shall we thus boggle and wriggle against the Power of faith and the practice of patience when we are put to trials nay shall we argue in the behalfe of flesh and bloud against the power of faith But I returne Ob. To permit a Prince said you to do what he will without resistance is the way to destroy the whole society of men and the Church in speciall if a Prince be so minded Answ It doth not follow for Church and Commonwealth are both preserved by Gods providence God is Governour of and in both and so far as the rage of men shall make to the praise either of his wisedome and justice in punishing the wicked or of his Power and grace in the trials of his servants Psa 76.10 Es 10. so far doth he permit it and the remainder thereof doth he restraine we see it in Assur Es 10. and in all the Tyrants of all Ages the Romane Emperours that had their wils had also but their time and did no more by all their fury then Gods hand and counsell had foredetermined should be done Ob. But this is Anabaptisme to hold it unlawfull for Christians to fight Answ It is one thing for Christians to fight under their Princes Banner and at his command and another thing to fight against his standard and contrary to his will to fight for him is Christianity but to fight against him is Anabaptisme nor indeed do the Anabaptists hold it unlawfull to fight when they thinke themselves strong enough to resist as appeared by their behaviour at Munster but as Jsrael had beene in peace if Ahab had been as free from troubling it as Elias was whom hee accused 1 King 18.17 so should England at this time be if they that oppose Regality and indeavour the dammage of it were as far from Anabaptisme as they are that hold such resistance unlawfull Ob. But Salus populi is suprema lex and for the preservation of the whole we may resist a part Answ There is indeed much talke of Salus populi now adayes but I believe there is a great mistake both in Salus and in Populi 1. In Salus which as appeares by mens proceedings is thought to consist in fighting rather then in flying in resisting rather then in yeilding in shedding one anothers bloud rather then in sleeping in peace God the generall conserver of mankinde hath created man for that end conservare speciem and his will is that those vertues should be specially practiced and maintained that are most conducible thereunto and those are not warres and contentions strife and debate but love meeknesse and patience bearing and forbearing one another I professe Sir it is a Paradox to me that men should lead people from peace to warre to preserve them sure there is a mistake in Salus 2 And so there is in Populi too for whereas some say by the people they meane all who conjuncti●● are as much above the King as hee is above any one of them sigill●atim and therefore though one may not resist him yet all may as if the sinne were the lesse because many commit it or rather none at all if they have but strength and company for to act it others againe by the people do interpret every mans particular selfe whence arise those expressions I value the King no more then I do another man I would rather disarme the King then he should disarme me yea and kill him too to save my selfe I tremble to mention these sayings doubtlesse these varlets to save themselves would deale so with God himselfe if he were capable and they could reach him I do believe your selfe will yeild that there is a mistake also in Populi But Sir is not the King the Head of the people and can they be safe without him I admire at some of us that dare in the pulpit separate betwixt them and vilify Majestie to advance popularity O cry some the whole must be preferred before a part Ob. for Christ saies if thy right eye or right hand offend thee cut it off and cast it from thee 't is better that a part perish then the whole Answ Yea but Christ doth not say if thine head offend the cut off that for that would be to the ruine of the whole Ob. O say others the Kingdome is cheifly to be regarded the King is but for the Kingdomes sake Hee is the younger of the two there was
Kings Person p. 9 6. The Subjects duty and the Soveraignes Excellency p. 10 7. Inward Honour is due to the King and how the same is to be expressed p. 16 8. The question about resisting the Kings Person stated and opened p. 22 9. The lawfulnesse of resisting the Kings personall will by force of Armes disavowed p. 25 10. Scripture examples for it answered p. 30 11. Arguments from Reason answered p. 34 12. Objection from the Kings Oath answered p. 41 13. Scriptures alleadged to evidence the unlawfulnesse of this resistance p. 48 14. Particular Reasons why the Authors Conscience cannot permit him to concurre with some of his Brethren in the way of resistance p. 61 15. This way of Resistance shewed to be 1. Against the way of God p. 66 2. Destructive to the whole Law of God p. 67 3. Inconsistent with the spirit of the Gospell p. 71 4. Contradictive to the perpetuall practice of Christianity p. 72 5. Opposite to the Calling of Ministers p. 74 6. Adverse to common Prudence p. 75 7. Dissentive from the rule of Humanity p. 76 8. Contrary to nature it selfe p. 77 9. Gain-saying Reason p. 78 10. Against the Oath of Allegeance and late Protestation p. 83 84 Reader By reason of the Authors absence some of these Sections are not so plainly noted as the rest wherefore for your better information of the summe of each and where they begin have recourse to this Table Faults escaped in some Copies PAg. 9. lin 21. for yet reade yea● p. 14. l. 1. r. more l. 15. r. rather makes p. 15 l. 4. r. hinder l. 21. for these r those p. 16. l. 13. r. the Lord will not l. 25. r. thousands p. 21. l. 35. dele and now Sir p. 22. l. 1. r. you discerne l. 3. for at r. out l. 34. for or r. and. p. 23. l. 6. r. contraria l. 14. r. proper l 17. for divers r. armes p. 24. l. 20. r. by Subjects p. 30. l. 9. r. purpose p. 31. l. 19. r. Osiander p. 35. l. 12. r. which p. 39. l. 19. r. singulatim l. 36. r. thee p. 40. l. 34. for this r. our p. 41. l. 16. for Empire r. Emperour p. 48. l. 29. for his r. this p. 89. l. 16. r. will of my c. TO MY REVEREND FRIEND AND BROTHER Mr STEPHEN MARSHALL THe God of all Wisedome Grace and Peace for Christs sake direct all our spirits ever to promote and do that onely which tendeth to the advancement of his owne glory and the tranquillity of this Church and State Amen SIR THe distance of place betwixt us causeth mee to reply by writing unto those things that were urged at our last meeting which at that time I rather heard then answered and now I do professe in the sight of that great God who knowes all hearts and must one day judge us that I desire to maintain no opinion as mine but as I conceive it to be a divine truth I am ready to deny my selfe in forsaking what I hold if at length such arguments as the weight of the cause requires can be produced against it out of Gods booke which is the onely bridle to my conscience In the first place I begge leave of your patience to declare my judgement or if you please my faith in the case I will plainely sincerely and fully expresse it with the grounds thereof then I will answer your Objections and discover how Scripture to my apprehension doth fairely lead mee out of that Labirinth wherein perhaps you thought mee left intangled and lastly I will give some reasons why my conscience disrelisheth that other way wherein diverse of my reverend and well regarded brethren walke SECT I. The KING hath immediate dependance upon God and to him onely is accountable Wherefore my good friends be you pleased to know that I do beleeve what ever the fancy of this Age is that next to Gods Sacred word and worship Kings and Kingdomes are things of the most high and reverend regard in this world with great humility therefore to be thought upon and discoursed of For as Scripture above all other writings so Kings above all other persons have an immediate dependance upon God Dan. 2.21 they are of his sole making He removeth and setteth up Kings And Kingdomes are of his owne disposing Dan. 4.25 The most High ruleth in the Kingdome of men and gives it to whomsoever he will Rom 13.1 And although it is most true that all the powers that be are ordained of God Joh. 19.11 and there is no power but what is given from above for as by him Kings Reigne so also by him Princes rule and Nobles yea all the Iudges of the earth Prov. 8.15 16. yet I beleeve all inferiour powers under the King are from God more remotely namely mediante Rege by the mediation of the supreme even as the lesser Starres have their light from God by the mediation of the Sunne they are the Kings delegates ordained and sent by him saies the Apostle who is sent by God 1 Pet. 2.14 and is under God the chiefe à Deo secundus post quem primus saith Tertullian And hence the Throne of the King is called the Throne of God wherein the King judgeth for God in Gods stead 1. Chro. 29.23.24 but the seat of the inferiour Magistrates is called the Kings seat where they sit and judge for him And hence too the King or supreme hath his Patent immediately from God He is Rex Dei gratiâ and his title is Gode Deputy or the Minister of God Rom. 13.4 but the Inferiour Magistrates have their Patents from the King they are Magistratus Regis gratiâ and are intituled the Kings Ministers or the Kings Iudges And as the man is said to be the Image of God and the woman to be the Image of the man upon whom she hath dependance 1. Cor. 11.7 so the King is the Image of God and inferiour powers in regard of their dependance upon him are the Images of the King they in their places represent Him as Hee in his place represents God and they no otherwise represent God then as they represent the King The King is to them as Moses was to Aaron and the other Judges Ex. 4.16 the mouth of God and they are the mouth of the King unto the people as Aaron and those others were the mouth of Moses Ex. 18.22 And as the Kings duty is to preferre Gods will before his owne so their duty is to preferre the Kings will before their owne when it contradicteth not the will of God revealed in his words And hence I gather that none can call Soveraigne Princes to an account if they transgresse but only God whose immediate stewards they are solum Deum quem habent Authorem habent quoque judicem therefore David well tibi tibi soli peccavi against thee Ps 51.4 thee only have sinned that is thou only O
a people before there was a King he was ordained for their good and therefore is to serve them Answ So Esau was Iacobs elder Brother yet the elder was appointed to serve the younger and the whole world that great Kingdome was made before man yet made for his sake to serve him not he to serve that indeed a King is no more ordained for the peoples good then they are for his good they are each ordained for other good and both for Gods glory which is most advanced by peace and union so that 't is not Salus populi alone but 't is Salus Regis et populi that is suprema Lex and so highly to be regarded nor doth Salus populi consist in resisting or suppressing the King What saies Pilate the Heathen to them that called themselves Gods people shall I crucify your King q. d. what an unnaturall and unreasonable thing is it for Subjects to goe about to ruinate their own King if they had answered O 't is to save our selves Pilate would have laught them to scorne although indeed perhaps when people go about any such businesse 't is to save some of themselves whose black merits do make them suspicious of the Kings mercy but should they prevaile the effect would shew that the safety of the enemies would never countervaile to the Commonwealth the Kings dammage Some there be that thinke Salus populi to consist in Liberty and Li● qerty as they conceive is for every man to do what is right in his owne eyes be of what Religion he please commit Idolatrie and Adultery rob plunder and take away the goods of others be both his owne Carver and his owne Judge and thus it was of old when there was no King in Israel ergo But Sir though some upon a taste of this kinde of Liberty which hath of late been permitted to them cry out O these be the blessed dayes these be the happy times yet you and I cannot but conceive that they are the beginning of sorrowes wil end in bitternesse we know this Liberty is every way destructive and rather Beast-like then Humane whereas this should be Christian which consists cheifly parendo Gods service is a perfect freedome and there was a King set up in Israel to remedy those abuses And thus Sir you see that I doe not apprehend from your reasons or arguments any necessity of such resistance in the case Now concerning the Oath or Covenant which the King takes or makes at his Coronation how that doth countenance a defensive resistance Sect. 12 on the Subjects part if the Prince shall make a breach thereof we shall a little consider First Sir let me minde you of what you yeilded namely that the King is King before his Coronation indeed his Crowne is but a note or ensigne of his Kingly dignity he hath a right unto and is in actuall possession of his Inheritance given him of God before he makes his Covenant on the Coronation day which cannot therefore be supposed to be conditionall with the people nor be thought that he by it from them receives his office with a quandiu bene se gesserit so that of necessity he must forfeit his power unto them if he breakes his promise We read that supreme Princes in ancient times as they were free from Lawes so from Oathes the Romane Empire was not wont to sweare unto the Senate or to the people but they both did take an Oath to him Those Oathes Covenants the Scripture mentions in the Story of the Kings of Iudah were not made or taken by the King if we marke them but by the people to their King or by the King and people together unto the Lord after some generall defection from his worship and service no this custome of a Kings swearing is the Infant of later times it was borne ad faciendum fidem peoples distrust was the parent of it evill suspicion as being for the most part the root of Rebellion was ever counted ominous and therefore to prevent a sinister opinion of a new King it was thought meet by such Princes upon their solemne Coronation day to enter into a visible Covenant with God in the presence of their people And I beleive the custome 's good as a meane by Gods grace to keepe a Prince his will within the bounds of Conscience but in that it was not so ab initio it plainly shewes that a Kings entrance into his Government doth no whit depend upon his Covenant nor doth this Covenant at all diminish his supremacy or derogate from the absolutenesse of his Power no if it were made unto his people as it is not I do not see how of necessity it must make him any way liable to their subjection God himself was pleased ad faciendam fidem to swear to Abraham and to David yet did hee not thereby any way make himselfe their inferiour But indeed the Kings Oath and Covenant is onely unto God 't is His Oath of Allegiance to the Lord and in effect to this purpose that he will discharge the trust imposed upon him by the God of Heaven and earth of whom he holds his Kingdome and this is made visibly in the presence of the people that they might not distrust the faithfulnesse or integrity of that Person to whom is committed by him who knowes all hearts so great a Power And sure as 't is a heavy sinne in a Prince to falsify his Covenant with the Majestie of Heaven so 't is no small sinne in Subjects to distrust a Prince his fidelity upon slight grounds or to expose him by any means to the generall suspicions of his people But now Sir what warrant have the Subjects from hence for their resistance if the King breakes his Oath to God is not God able to revenge his owne cause hath hee not alwayes done it observe stories and see if you can name one example of any King though never so great that brake Covenant with God whom God hath not remembred and is his arme shortned or is not his Justice still the same Ob. O yes say some we have a warrant to helpe the Lord against the mighty Meroz was cursed because she did not Answ Meroz indeed was cursed with a bitter curse and did deserve it because she came not to helpe her King her Captain or supreme Judge whom God had set over her on whose side the Lord was against his Enemies that rose up or went out against him that were so many and so mighty but she is not cursed because she did not resist her owne Governour The breach of our Oath of Alleagiance unto the King is onely an offence against the King and to be punished by him and not by any of his Subjects without his Authority nay if any breake promise and Covenant with one of us our selves onely can justly accuse him and shall we not allow God the same Priviledge by what Authority therefore do you this thing call