capite taken away and that then a course for his Maiesties profit and service should be proposed that being to be offered in the first place before his Maiestie part with the other And the like is to be done for respit of homage 10. His Maiestie may not receade from the former answer with which the Proposers may rest satisfied 11. As his Maiestie may not vary from his former answer so he may not foreclose the houses of parliament from making any declaration agreeable to the lawes of the land 12. The Proposers may rest satisfied with the former answer considering that all parties grieved may have the benefit of the lawes of the land and that by consent of the parties interested many matters determined at Councell-board are confirmed by act of parliament 13. His Maiestie will be pleased that indifferent persons be agreed on this treatie who shall be authorised by Commission to moderate and settle the Booke of Rates in such sorre as they shall thinke fit 14. His Maiestie may not assent any further to this proposition then he hath already done without apparent preiudice to his service 15. His Maiestie may not receade from his former answer 16. His Maiestie thinkes not fit to give any further answer to this Proposition then he hath done already untill the Proposers make answer to the propositions made and delivered unto them in the behalfe of his Maiesties protestant subiects and their adherents And then upon further debate his Maiestie will give such answer as shall be thought fit 17. It may not be admitted that tryals by the knowne lawes of the land assented unto by the former answer should not be indifferent And therefore his Maiestie may not receade from his former answer The said Lord Marquesse of Ormond now declares that albeit these answers are thus given by him in present to the said propositions yet that he intends not to be thereby concluded from altering the same or adding thereunto in any parts thereof in such sorte as he shall finde cause upon further debate Additionall Propositions of His Majesties most humble and loyall subjects the Confederate Roman Catholicks of Ireland presented to His Excellencie the Lord Marques of Ormond Lord Lieutenant of Ireland His Majesties Commissioner 1. THat an act bee passed this next Parliament prohibiting that neither the Lord Deputie Lord Chancellor Lord High Treasurer Vice-Treasurer Chancellor or any of the Barrons of the Erchequer privy councell or Iudges of the foure Courts bee Farmers of his Majesties Customes 2. That an act of Parliament may passe in this Kingdome against all Monopolies such as was enacted in England 21. Iacobi with a further clause for repealing of all grants of monopolies in this Kingdome 3. That the Court of Castle-chamber in this Kingdome having been an oppression to the subject there being other remedies for the offences questioned in that Court by the Common Law and Statutes of the Realme be taken away or otherwise limitted as both houses of Parliament shall thinke fit 4. That two acts lately past in this Kingdome one prohibiting the plowing with horses by the taile and the other prohibiting the burning of oates in straw may bee repealed 5. That upon presenting the names of three persons of qualitie in each Countie by Vs to your Lordship patents be passed to such of those so to bee presented respectively to be Sheriffs in each County as to your Lordship shall seeme meet to make choice of for that purpose 6. That one or more Agents from this Kingdome may bee admitted still to attend his Majestie for his better information of the affaires of this Kingdome And that as a testimony of his Majesties favour some of the nobles and others of qualitie of this Kingdome may be imployed about his Majesties person 7. For asmuch as divers of the Scottish Nation and others in this Kingdome doe not obey the present cessation and many of them having of late taken the Covenant proposed by the members of Parliament at Westminster now in armes against his Majestie It is therefore humbly desired that such as disobey the said Cessation or have taken the said Covenant bee proclaimed traytors and prosecuted accordingly by his Majesties authoritie and that such Counties or Corporations as have not submitted to the now Cessation of armes in this Kingdome according his Maiesties Commission be not admitted to make any returne to the Parliament 8. For asmuch as sundry persons estated in this Kingdome have either actually raised armes in England against his Majestie or have otherwise adhered to the malignant partie now in armes against his Majestie that therefore it may please his Majestie to give way to the impeachment and attainders of those and such others whose names we shall here represent to your Lordship by way of bill in Parliament whereby they may receive condigne punishment for their offences his Majesty take advantage of the forfeiture of their estates and in the interim the possessions to remaine in the hands wherein they are at present 9. For asmuch as upon application of the Agents from this Kingdome to his Majestie in the fourth yeare of his raigne and lately upon humble suite made to his Majestie by a Committee of both houses of the Parliament of this Kingdome order was given by his Majestie for redresse of severall greevances It is therefore humbly desired that for so many of those as are not expressed in the now propositions presented to your Lordship whereof both houses in the next ensuing Parliament shall desire the benefit of his Majesties said former directions for redresses that the same bee afforded them 10. That the office of 〈◊〉 in this Kingdome bee setled â—â—dependant of none but his Majestie whereby maritime causes may bee determined here without driving merchants or others to appeale or seeke Iustice elsewhere in those causes 11. That a Course may be taken for all such as owe debts in this Kingdome for that by reason of the generall devastation of the Kingdome the land is not like in some yeares to come to be of any considerable value being the onely meanes that many of the Nobilitie Gentrie and others of this Kingdome had to satisfie their debts and therefore a competent time bee given by act to bee past in the next Parliament for payment thereof and the interest or use of moneyes to bee moderated 12. That the subjects of this Kingdome may bee eased of the increase of rent lately raysed and imposed on them upon the late Commission of defective titles in the Earle of Straffords time 13. That if any of your Lordships partie during these troubles have by fines recoveries or otherwise disinherited those who were next to succeed them of our partie as heires or in reversion or remainder without reall and full consideration but for being of our partie that all acts so done be avoided in Parliament 14. That such of our partie whose estates are in the hands of the Scottish and Parliament partie either in
their oath declared by the statute of 18. Elizab. will not stop or suspend the proceedings of the Court for the great Seale privy seale or his Maiesties letters writs or commandements And your Lordship may please to observe that by long experience it is manifest that since the making of those Lawes being foure-score and odde yeares the penalties or forfeytures in them expressed have not beene so prevalent as to draw them the said Catholickes from the Religion professed by them and their Ancestors and no advantage did in so long a tract of time accrue to the Crowne by those statutes And seeing his Maiesty is content that moderation should be used towards the said Catholickes to what purpose should the said penall lawes be continued in force whereas the continuation thereof can produce no other effect then jealousies and feares in the mindes of the people A free Parliament is propounded and a new Parliament is meaned Reasons against the 2. Answer in this answer to be granted It is true that Parliaments in their Essence ought to be free yet some examples shewing the contrary in this kingdome and a clause in the answer viz. That the Parliament shall be dissolved upon an attempt onely of propounding any other matter then shall be agreed upon by the Articles of Peace which attempt may bee purposely done by some averse to peace to dissolve a Parliament and the taking away of the said clause attempt doth induce the said Catholickes to supplicate the inserting of a free Parliament And that all the acts to be concluded on by the treaty may not be transmitted into England in regarde the substance of that which will bee passed as acts without transmission are to be inserted in the articles of peace which none other act of Parliament is to passe upon the suspension of Poynings act without transmission according to the usuall manner wherefore the said suspension can bring no manner of prejudice upon his Majestie or the publicke service and that by the granting thereof the peoples mindes will be much quieted The said Catholicks do therfore humbly desire that the said act be suspended as is by them propounded If the now pretended Parliament or eyther of the houses of Parliament made any Orders or Ordinances to the prejudice of the said Reasons against the 3. Answer Catholicks the same Parliament may vacate them take them off the file And it is not to be presumed that any member of Parliament is so litle affected to the peace or quiet of the kingdome that he will give opposition to the third proposition or to his Maiesties direction or to your Lordships request in that behalfe And the said Catholickes conceive it necessary in point of honour and reputation that no Order or Ordinance to their prejudice may remayne of Record in Parliament And if no such Order or Ordinance bee the proposition can hardly be denied wherefore it is humbly desired that the answer may Reasons against the 4. Answer be more full and satisfactory Vpon consideration of the fourth proposition of the reasons for the same it is humbly desired this answer be enlarged to the greater advantage of the said Catholickes then is expressed and although his Majesty cannot avoyde Recordes of this nature by Proclamation yet when his Majesty is informed that those indictments and outlawries were done of designe to extirpate a Nation and that in the proceedings it will appeare and here was practised his Majesties proclamation in a case of this generall concernment declaring his dislike of such proceedings will be of great consequence and his direction to the Parliament to that effect will no doubt accomplish the desire of the said Catholicks contained in this Proposition and his Royall directions to have the Procurers Actors and Plotters of and in the said indictments and outlawries and the whole proceedings questioned and the designe and practise being discovered and proved then the said records and all matters depending hereupon ought in law and justice to bee vacated and taken off the file and the pardon in the answer mentioned restores neither blood nor estate as it is there set downe and admitting the pardon were by Parliament it will bee of absolute necessitie to avoid all grants letter-patents leases and other acts letters or promises made to the prejudice of the persons attainted and to restore them to their blood and estate in which act a clause condemning the manner of the procuring of the said indictements and outlawries is thought necessary to bee inserted and the exception mentioned in the said answer is humbly desired by the said Catholicks to bee taken off and the clause viz. His Majesty will enlarge his mercy to be made more particular This answer is humby desired to bee made equall to all parties one Reasons against the 5. Answer way or other as it is propounded and that Catholicks should pay debts due upon them and loose the debts due unto them is conceived not to bee equall By his Majesties graces of the fourth yeare of his raigne all the Reasons against the 6. Answer estates in the Province of Conaght and Countie of Clare in pursuance of the Indentures of composition made by the late Queene Elizabeth for great and valuable considerations with the Lords and Gentrie of the said Province and Countie and of the grants and promises of the late King Iames of happy memorie were to bee confirmed and made good by act of Parliament the statute of limitation was then to bee passed which extended to all estates in the Kingdome therefore no greater rent ought to bee reserved upon the lands in the said Province or Countie nor upon the lands in the Counties of Tiperarie and Lyndak then was answeared to his Majestie in the said fourth yeare of his Majesties raigne And the great offices intituling his Majestie unto the before mentioned lands and to many mens estates in the County of Wickloe and to the territorie of Idough in the Countie of Kilkenny were enforced by an high hand the free-holders thereof being in possession of their repective estates then and for many ages before without interruption or question It is therefore humbly desired that those offices bee vacated and taken off the file by his Majesties gracious directions his highnes or his patentees being therein onely concerned as to the title found by those offices And that the statute and limitation may bee here enacted with a retrospect to the fourth yeare of his Majesties raigne at which time it was promised by his Majesty to have been passed as an act in this Kingdome and if it had beene so done the said offices had not been found And that the case of the Countie of Wickloe and the Countie of kilkenny meriting equall justice and favour with the rest ought not to be distinguished from them The clause in the said answer concerning Innes of Court and free-schooles as it is expressed in the answer will debarre Roman Catholicks Reasons against part of the 7 Answer so long as they are of that Religion from attaining to the knowledge of the lawes of the land or any other learning within this Kingdome This answer is conceived not to be satisfactorie and to generall and particular instances of the markes of his Majesties favour towards Reasons against the 8 Answer the â—aid Catholicks is humbly desired The reasons against this answer in all the parts thereof are the same that are urged for the ninth Proposition and upon consideration of To the 9. Answer those reasons the answer is humbly desired to be enlarged His Maiesties answer made to the 25. grievance in the 17. yeare of To the 10. Answer his Majesties raigne gives five yeares time to the unestated Lords to acquire estates in this Kingdome It is therefore humbly desired that the answer may be more satisfactory on consideration of the reasons for the tenth proposition and the state of affaires is so altered since that time that upon the now intended generall settlement more circumspection and warines is to be used then at any time before The said Catholicks doe conceive and affirme in all cleerenes that the Parliament of Ireland is independent of the Parliament of England To the 11. Answer without which independency this realme could be no Kingdome nor any Parliaments here necessary nor any subject of this Kingdome sure of his estate life or liberty other then at the will and pleasure of a Parliament wherein neither Lords Knights nor Burgesses of this Kingdome have place or vote and which vowed the destruction of all or most of this nation and unwarrantably assumed the power to dispose of their estates by the Statutes of subscription to malignants and Hollanders To draw this into any debate or question might prove of most dangerous consequence to this nation And yet a declaration of the Parliament here and an act as in the proposition is set down is humbly desired in regarde his Maiesty was drawne to give the Royall assent to the acts of subscription This answer is humbly desired to be enlarged according to the reasons The 12. Answer for the twelfth proposition The rates of staple commodities are humbly desired to be moderated by Commissioners to be appointed by both houses of Parliament The 13. Answer The reasons for the not continuance of the chiefe governor above three yeares are the same urged for the fourteenth proposition The 14. Answer The reasons for the erecting and continuance of trayned Bands are the same that are urged for the fifteenth proposition The 15. Answer This answer is humbly desired to be enlarged and the act of oblivion to extend to goods taken of eyther side although the Roman Catholickes suffered much more then all others in this warre and The 16. Answer your Lordship will consider the reasons for this proposition It is of necessitie the tryall of the persons to be excepted be by parliament The 17. Answer otherwise the tryall cannot be indifferent in this case Wee desire notwithstanding those reasons to be admitted to shew such further and other reasons and to adde herevnto what wee shal thinke fit touching the matter wherein the answers are short or not satisfactory FINIS
THE PROPOSITIONS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICKS OF IRELAND Presented by their Commissioners to His Sacred Majestie in April M. DC XLIV As also the Answer of the Agents for the Protestants of Ireland made to the said Propositions and their Petition and Propositions to His Majesty with His Majesties answer to the Propositions of the said Roman Catholicks And the answe◠of IAMES Marquesse of Ormond His Majesties Commissioner for the treatie and concluding of a Peace in the Kingdome of Ireland to the said Propositions 〈…〉 Waterford by Thomas Bourke Printer to the Confederate 〈…〉 Catholicks of Ireland M. DC XLIV TO THE READER WHereas the Supreme Councell of the Confederate Catholicks of Ireland imployed severall persons of qualitie into England authorized by Commission to supplicate his Majestie for redresse of the grievances of the said Catholicks and to settle a firme peace in Church and Commonwealth who having then for some time attended His Majestie to that purpose His Majesties good intentions to the peace of this Kingdome was for that present diverted by the false Informations of persons ill affected to this Nation whose suggestions happened to be then listned unto and answers accordingly given So as the said Commissioners returned into this Kingdome with hopes onely that His Majestie might in time bee better possessed of the power and affections of His Catholicke subjects here and of the use to be made thereof His Majestie being pleased notwithstanding the said informations to give Commission to the Lord Marques of Ormond Lieutenant Generall of Ireland for the continuance and concluding of the treatre begun before His Majestie In pursuance of which Commission the said Catholicks presented their propositions the same in substance they first presented to His Majestie in Oxford unto which some answers were made which being no way satisfactorie were replied unto and so the matter proceeded to a long dispute debate wherein many difficulties occurring the treatie was adjourned and so continues till the tenth of Ianuary next by which time His Majesties resolution upon the whole matter represented unto him is expressed a firme lasting peace hoped for This being the state the treatie is in at this time it may be conceived improper to give an account of the particular passages which are but overtures and alterable as it is well hoped and little to bee doubted but that in this they will bee yet some to breed distraction and mistrusts among the said Confederates or blinded with private and ambitious ends and impatient of any delay have been so malicious or mistaken as to traduce the said Confederate Catholicks and their Commissioners affirming they might have obtained Conditions satisfactorie to any reasonable people but that they rejected the same To satisfie therefore all indifferent Iudgements that may enter into the consideration of the said proceedings and to make it manifest that the whole scope of the said Catholicks was and is for the freedome of the Nation in their Religion Estates and Liberties with out trenching upon His Majesties rights or other end and that it may appeare how farre the proceedings hitherto come short of that It was thought necessary to expose those proceedings to publicke view by putting them to the presse so to cast off those aspersions that ignorant or malicious persons endeavour to cast upon them having yet neverthelesse assured hopes that His Majesty will in time afford remedies to these Complaints and with a gracious eye looke upon the sufferings of this afflicted nation The propositions of the Roman Catholicks of Ireland humbly presented unto His Sacred Majestie in pursueance of their Remonstrance of grievances and to bee annexed to the said Remonstrance 1. THat all Acts made against the professors of the Roman Catholicke Faith whereby any restrainte penaltie mulct or incapacitie may bee layed upon any Roman Catholicke within the Kingdome of Ireland may bee repealed and the said Catholicks to be allowed the freedome of the Roman Catholicke Religion 2. That your Majestie will bee pleased to call a free Parliament in the said Kingdome to bee held and continued as in the said Remonstrance is expressed and the statute of the tenth yeare of King Henry the seventh called Poynings act and all acts explayning or enlarging the same be suspended during that parliament for the speedy settlement of the present affaires and the repeale thereof to bee there further considered of 3. That all acts and ordinances made and passed in the now pretended parliament in that Kingdome since the seventh day of August 1641. be cleerely annulled and declared voyd and taken of the file 4. That all Indictments Attainders Outlawries in the Kings Bench or elsewhere since the said seventh day of August 1641. And all letters pattents grants leases custodiums bonds recognizances and all other records act or acts depending thereupon or in prejudice of the said Catholicks or any of them bee taken off the files annulled and declared void first by your Majesties publicke Proclamation and after by act to be passed in the said free Parliament 5. That inasmuch as under collour of such outlawries and attainders debts due unto the said Catholickes have been granted levyed or disposed of and of the other side that debts due upon the said Catholicks to those of the adverse partie have been levied and disposed to publicke use that therefore all debts be by act of Parliament mutually released or all to stand in statu Quo. notwithstanding any grant or disposition 6. That the late offices taken or found upon fayned or old titles since the yeare 1634. to intitle Your Majestie to severall Countreyes in Connaght Thomond and in the Counties of Tipperarie Lymmericke Kilkenny and VVickloe be vacated taken off the file the possessors setled secured in their ancient estates by act of Parliament And that the like act of limittation of your Majesties titles for the securitie of the estates of your subjects of that Kingdome be passed in the said parliament as was enacted in the one and twenty yeare of his late Majesties raigne in this Kingdome 7. That all Marckes of incapacitie imposed upon the natives of that Kingdome to purchase or acquire lands leases offices or hereditaments be taken away by act of parliament and the same to extend to the securing of purchases leases or grants already made And that for the education of youth an act be passed in the next parliament for the erecting of one or more Inns of Court Vniversities free and common schooles 8. That the offices and places of command honour profit and trust within that Kingdome be conferred upon Roman Catholicks natives in equalitie and indifferencie with your Majesties other subjects 9. That the insupportable oppression of your subjects by reason of the Court of Wards and respit of homage be taken away and a certaine revenue in lieu thereof setled upon your Majestie without diminution of your Majesties profit 10. That no Lord not estated in that Kingdome or estated and not resident shall have
vote in the said parliament by proxie or otherwise and none admitted to the house of Commons but such as shall be estated and resident within the Kingdome 11. That an act be passed in the next parliament declaratorie that the parliament of Ireland is a free parliament of it selfe independant of and not subordinate to the parliament of England And that the subjects of Ireland are immediatly subject to your Majestie as in right of your Crowne and that the members of the said parliament of Ireland and all other the subjects of Ireland are independant and no way to bee ordered or concluded by the parliament of England and are onely to bee ordered and governed within that Kingdome by your Majestie and such Governors as are or shall be there appointed and by the parliament of that Kingdome according to the lawes of the land 12. That the assumed power or Iurisdiction in the Councell-boord of determining all manner of causes bee limitted to matters of state and all pattents estates and grants illegally and extrajudicially avoyded there or elsewhere be left in state as before and the parties grieved their heires or assignes till legall eviction 13. That the statutes of the eleventh twelfth and thirteenth yeare of Queene Elizabeth concerning stapple-commodities be repealed reserving unto your Majestie lawfull and just pondage and a booke of rates to bee setled by an indifferent Committee of both houses for all commodities 14. That in as much as the long continuance of the chiefe governor or governors of that Kingdome in that place of so great eminencie and power hath beene a principall occasion that much tyrannie and oppression hath beene exercised upon the subjects of that Kingdome That your Majestie will bee pleased to continue such governors hereafter but for three yeares And that none once imployed therein bee appointed for the same againe untill the expiration of six yeares next after the end of the said three yeares And that an act passe to disinable such governor or governors during their government directly or indirectly in use trust or otherwise to make any manner of purchase or acquisition of any mannors lands tenements or hereditaments within that Kingdome other then from your Majestie your heires or successors 15. That an act may be passed in the next parliament for the raising setling of trained bands within the seuerall Counties of that Kingdome as well to prevent forraigne invasions as to render them the more serviceable and ready for your Majesties occasions as cause shall require 16. That an act of oblivion be passed in the next free parliament to extend to all your Majesties said Catholicke subjects and their adherents for all manner of offences capitall criminall and personall And the said act to extend to all goods and chattells customes maine-profits prizes arreares of rents taken received or incurred since these troubles 17. For as much as your Majesties said Catholicke subjects have been taxed with many inhuman cruelties which they never committed your Majesties said suppliants therefore for their vindication and to manifest to all the world their desire to have such heynous offences punished and the offendors brought to Iustice doe desire that in the next Parliament all notorious murders breaches of quarter and inhuman cruelties committed of either side may bee questioned in the said Parliament if your Majestie so thinke fit and such as shall appeare to be guiltie to be excepted out of the said act of oblivion and punished according their deserts For as much DREAD SOVERAIGNE as the wayes of our addresses unto your Majestie for apt remedies unto our grievances were hitherto debarred us but now at length through your benigne grace and favour layd open Wee doe humbly present these in pursuance of the said Remonstrance which granted your said subjects are ready to contribute the ten thousand men as in their remonstrance is specified towards the suppressing of the unnaturall rebellion now in this Kingdome And will further expose their lives and fortunes to serve your Majestie as occasions shall require The Answers of the Agents for the Protestants of Ireland to the Propositions of the Roman Catholicks of Ireland made in pursuance of his Sacred Majesties directions of the ninth of May 1644. requiring the same 1 TO the first wee say that this hath beene the pretence of almost all those who have entred into Rebellion in the Kingdome of Ireland at any time since the Reformation of Religion there which was setled by act of Parliament above eighty yeares since and hath wrought good effect ever since for the peace and welfare both of the Church and Kingdome there and of the Church and Kingdome of England and Protestant partie throughout all Christendome and so hath beene found wholesome and necessarie by long experience and the repealing of those Lawes will set Popery againe both in jurisdiction profession and practice as it was before the said Reformation and introduce amongst other inconveniences the Supremacie of Rome and take away or much endanger your Majesties Supreme and just authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall a diminution of honour and power not to be endured The said acts extending aswell to seditious sectaries as to popish Recusants So as by the repeale thereof every man may seeme to be left to choose his owne Religion in that Kingdome which must needs beget great confusion and the abounding of the Roman Clergy there hath beene one of the greatest occasions of this late Rebellion Besides it is humbly desired that your Maiestie will be pleased to take into your gracious Consideration a clause in the act of Parliament past by your Majesties Royall assent in England in the seventeenth yeare of your raigne touching punishment to be inflicted upon those that shall introduce the authoritie of the See of Rome in any case whatsoever 2. Whereas they desire to have a free Parliament called reflecteth by secret and cunning implication upon your Majesties present Parliament in Ireland as if it were not a free Parliament Wee humbly beseech your Majestie to resent how dangerous it is to make such insinuation or intimation to your people of that kingdome touching that Parliament wherein severall acts of Parliament have already passed the validitie where of may be endangered if the Parliament should not be approved as a free Parliament and it is a point of so high nature as we humbly conceive is not properly to be discussed but in Parliament And your Majesties said Parliament now sitting is a free Parliament in Law holden before a person of honour and fortune in that Kingdome composed of good loyall and well affected subjects to your Majestie who doubtlesse will be ready to comply in all things that shall appeare to be pious and just for the good of the true Protestant Religion and for your Majesties service and the good of the Church and State That if this present Parliament should be dissolved it would be a great terrour and discontent to all your Majesties protestant subjects of that
your Majesties service to be taken into consideration as first with regarde of the statutes made in the present Parliament of England Secondly the necessarie encrease of your revenue decayed by the present rebellion Thirdly the abolishing of the evill custome of the Irish and preservation of Religion Lawes and government there Fourthly the satisfaction of your protestants subjects losses in some measure Fiftly the arrears of your Majesties Army and other debts contracted for that war for preservation of that Kingdome to your Majestie Sixtly the bringing in of more Brittish on the plantations Seventhly the building of some walled Townes in remote and desolate places for the securitie of that kingdome and your good subjects there Eightly the taking of the Natives from their former dependencie on their chiefetaynes who usurped an absolute power on them to the diminution of your Regall power and to the oppression of the inferiour 7. This we conceive concerneth some of the late plantations and no other part of that Kingdome and that the restitution herein mentioned is found to bee of great use especially for the indifferencie of tryalls strength of the government and for trade and trafficke and we humbly conceive that if other plantations shall not proceede for the setling and securing of that Kingdome that no restraint be made of papists purchasing or buying of the protestants out of their former platations where they were prudently planted though now cast out of their estates by the late rebellion unable to plant the same againe for want of meanes and therefore probably upon easy tearmes will part with their estates to the Confederates That those plantations will be destroyed to the great prejudice of your Maiesties service and endangering of the safety of that Kingdome Touching bearing of offices we humbly conceive that their non-conformitie to the lawes and statutes of that Realme is the onely marke of incapacity imposed upon them And wee humbly conceive that they ought not to expect to be more capable there then the English Natives are here in England in like case For Schooles in Ireland there are divers setled in all parts of that Kingdome already by the Lawes and statutes of that Realme And if any person well affected shall erect and endow any more schools there at their owne charges So that the Schoole-masters and schollers may be governed according to the lawes custome and orders of England and the best of free scholes here Wee cannot apprehend any iust exceptions thereunto but touching Vniversities and Innes-of-Court We humbly conceive that this part of the proposition savoureth of some desire to become independent upon England or to make a separation in the Religion and lawes of the kingdome which can never be truly happy but in the good unitie of both in the true protestant religion and in the lawes of England For as for matter of charge such of the Natives as are desirous to breede their sonnes for learning in divinitie can be well content to send them to the Vniversities of Lovain Doway and other places in forayne Kingdomes and for Civill law or Physicke to Padua other places which drawes a great treasure yearely out of your Majesties Dominions but will send few or none of them to Oxford or Cambridge where they might as cheaply be brought up and become as learned Which course we conceive is holden out of their pride and disaffection towards this Kingdome and the true Religion here professed And for the lawes of the land which are for the Common-lawes agreeable to England so for the greatest part of the statutes the Innes of Courts in England are sufficient and the protestants come thither without grudging And it is a meanes to civilize them after the English customes to make them familiar and in love with the language and Nation to preserve law in the puritie when the professors of it shall draw of one originall fountaine and see the manner of the practise of it in the same great Channell where his Majesties Courts of Iustice of England doe flow cleerely Whereas by separations of the Kingdomes in the place of their principall instruction where their foundations in being are to be layd a degenerate corruption in Religion and Iustice may happily be introduced and spred with much more difficultie to be corrected and restrayned afterwards by any discipline to be used in Ireland or punishments there to be inflicted for departing from the true grounds of things that are best preserved in unitie when they grow out of the same roote then if such Vniversities and Innes of Court as are proposed should be granted All which wee humbly submit to your Majesties most pious and prudent Consideration and Iudgement 8. We humbly conceive that the Roman Catholicks Natives in Ireland may have the like offices and places as the Roman Catholickes Natives of England here have and not otherwise Howbeit we conceive that in the generallity they have not deserved somuch by their late rebellion Therefore we see not why they should be endowed with any new or further capacity or priviledges then they have by the Lawes and statutes now in force in that Kingdome 9. Wee know no oppression by reason of the Court of Wards and wee humbly conceive that the Court of wards is of great use for the raysing of your Majesties revenues the preservation of your Maiesties Tennures and chiefly the education of the Gentry in the protestant Religion and civilitie of learning and good manners who otherwise would bee brought up in ignorance barbarisme their estats be ruyned by their kindred and friends and continue their dependance on the chiefe Lords to the great preiudice of your Maiesties service and protestant subiects and there being no colour of exception to your Maiesties iust Title to wardships we know not why the taking away of Court concerning the same should be so pressed unlesse it be to prevent the education of the Lords and Gentry that fall-wards in the protestant religion For that part of this proposition which concernes respit of homage we humbly conceive it reasonable that some way may be setled for this if it stands with your Maiesties good pleasure without preiudice to your Maiesty or your protestant subiects 10. Wee humbly conceive that in the yeare 1641. by the graces which your Majestie then granted to your subjects of Ireland the matter of this proposition was in a faire way regulated by your utter abolishing of blancke proxies limitting Lords present and attending in the Parliament of Ireland that no one of them should be capable of more proxies then two and prescribing the Peeres of that Kingdome not there resident to purchase fitting proportions of land in Ireland within five yeares from the last of Iuly 1641. or else to loose votes till they should make such purchase which purchase by reason of the troubles happening in that Kingdome which have continued for two yeares and a halfe have not peradventure yet beene made And therefore
Hugh Ionne Io. Leight Andr Brereton Io Clerke Roger Holland Io. Sâ—erring Mar. Higginson Io. VValler Iohauth Holt. Edw. Fisher Capt. Tho. Lewton Tho. Mâ—nley Ios Holt. Io. Câ—mberlege And. Cumble Geo. Chibaldist Io. Roâ— Fra Barser Nath. Stougâ—â—â—â— VVill. Bodingâ—on And. â—â—â—â—g Edw. Barten Io. Pinrose VVill Richardson Robert Masson VVilliam Heward Ia. VVoodcocke And. VVatson Robert Iones VVilliam Tedder And. Iones Robert Boyer VVilliam Medcalfe Iona. Costie VVilliam Sands Natha Poster Io. Field VValter Fraster His Majesties answer to the propositions of the Roman Catholicks of Ireland COncerning any thing in Religion his Majesties answer is That as the Lawes against those of the Romish Religion within that his Kingdome of Ireland have never been executed with any rigour or severity So if such his subjects shall by returning to their duty and loyalty merit his Majesties favour and protection they shall not for the future have cause to complaine that lesle moderation is used towards them then hath been in the most favorable of Queene Elizabeth and King Iames his times Provided that under pretence of Conscience they doe not stirre up sedition but live quietly and peaceably according to their Allegiance 2. Touching the calling a free Parliament by which his Majestie supposes the proposers intend a new Parliament his Majestie sayes he could wish that all the particulars might bee fully agreed on and ratified this Parliament his Majestie well understanding that his Protestant subjects may bee in farre greater danger in a new Parliament then the proposers and their Party can bee in this his Majestie being willing to give them any security that can bee desired against their apprehensions however since some objections and doubts are raised of the legall continuance of this Parliament since the death of the Lord Deputy VVansford and by the late arrivall of his Majesties Commission after the day of meeting upon the prorogation though those doubts may bee easily solved his Majestie is content to call a new Parliament upon condition that all particulars bee first agreed on and the Acts to be passed bee first transmitted according to custome for his Majestie will by no meanes consent the suspension of Poynings Act and the proposers giving his Majestie security that there shall be no attempt in that Parliament to passe any other Act then what is agreed on first transmitted or to bring any other prejudice to any of his Majesties Protestant subjects there 3. His Majestie neither can nor will declare Acts in themselves lawfull to bee voyd but is content that neither the Proposers nor their party shall suffer any pejudice by any Acts or Ordinances passed since the time in that proposition mentioned by reason of this commotion And for that end shall give his full concurrence 4. The matters of the foure five and sixteenth Propositions are to bee digested into an Act of Oblivion in which his Majestie will admit any Clauses to enlarge his mercy but will not by declaring Indictments legally taken regularly prosecuted to be voyd give any countenance to or make any excuse for the present Rebellion which would be a great prejudice to truth and to the future security of that Kingdome And therefore His Majestie is content to grant a full and generall Pardon to all persons whatsoever within that his Kingdome except for all Treasons Rebellion or other crimes whatsoever growing or arising from or by reason of the said Rebellion will likewise give his consent to such an Act of Oblivion as shall be prepared transmitted to him by the advise of his Lord Lieutenant Councell of Ireland who are fittest to consider in what state debts are to bee left and particular actions and remedies to bee waved in which His Majestie for the peace of the Kingdome will bee content to release what concernes himselfe 6. When all particulars shall bee agreed on and faithfully executed on the parts of the Proposers his Majestie expecting a just acknowledgement of his bountie as well knowing that he parts with very much to which hee hath a legall and undoubted title is content to release and quit his right to all such lands in the Counties mentioned except within the Countyes of Kilkenny and Wickloe upon the tearmes formerly assented by his Majestie in his Answer to the grievanees in the seventeenth yeare of his Raigne and will consent to such an Act of limitations as is desired 7. When all other things shall bee concluded his Majestie will consent to an Act for the taking away any incapacity as Natives either to lands or offices if any such there bee And will willingly consent to the erecting an Innes of Court Vniversity or free-schooles provided that they bee governed by such Statutes and Orders as His Majestie shall approve and agreable to the Custome of this Kingdome 8. Such of His Majesties subjects of the Romish Religion within that Kingdome as shall manifest their dutie and Affection to His Majestie shall receive such marks of His Majesties favour in offices and places of trust as shall manifest His Majesties good acceptance and regard of them 9. His Majestie will take care that his good subjects of that Kingdome shall not be oppressed by his Court of Wards and if oppressions of that kind have been upon good and due information His Majestie will cause Iustice to be done for the time past and for the future will prevent the like by Instructions But for the taking away of that Court His Majestie can make no answer till the particulars for his satisfaction bee set downe and presented to him 10. His Majestie consented as farre as is fit for him in this Point in his answer to the five and twentieth grievance in the seventeenth yeare of his Raigne the which he is still willing shall bee enacted looking forward still to five yeares to begin after the peace concluded 11. His Majestie conceives the substance of this Proposition which concernes the fundamentall Rights of both Kingdomes fit to bee referred to the free debate and expostulation of the two parliaments when it shall please God that they may freely and safely sit His Majestie being so equally concerned in the priviledges of either that hee will take care to the utmost of his power that they shall both conteine themselves within their proper limitts his Majestie being the Head and equally interessed in the Rights of both parliaments 12. This is sufficiently provided for in his Majesties Answer to the tenth grievance which hee is content shall passe 13. Since it appeares by long experience that these Lawes have not produced that good effect for which they were made his Majestie was graciously pleased by his late Graces that those Statutes should bee repealed save onely for woolls and woollfells and will observe the same resolution And a Booke of rates shall bee setled by an indifferent Committee 14. His Majestie doth not admit that the long continuance of the Chiefe Governor of that Kingdome in that place hath been an occasion of much
of this Proposition which concerneth the fundamentall rights of both kingdomes fit to bee referred to the free debate and expostulation of the two Parliaments when it shall please God that they may freely and safely sit his Majesty being so equally concerned in the priviledges of eyther that he will take care to the uttermost of his power that they shall both contayne themselves within their proper limits his Majestie being the head and equally concerned in the rights of both 12. To the twelfth his Majestie hath sufficiently provided for this in his answer to the tenth grievanee which his Majestie is content shall passe by act of parliament 13. To the thirteenth proposition his Majesty hath beene pleased by his late Graces that those statutes should be repealed save onely for Wools and wool-fels And is well pleased that the same be done by act of parliament and that a Booke of Rates be setled by indifferent Commissioners 14. To the foureteenth proposition his Majestie doth not admit or beleeve that the long continuance of the chiefe Covernors of this kingdome in their places of government hath beene an occasion of any tyrany or oppression or that any tyrany or oppression hath beene exercised upon his subjects of this his kingdome howsoever his Majesty will be graciously pleased to take care that such Governors shall not continue longer in those places then he shall finde for the good of his people here And his Majestie is content that they shall bee inhibited to make any purchase other then by Lease for the provision of their houses during the time of their government 15. To the fifteenth Proposition this proposition is to be explaned and some particular way to be proposed for the doing thereof And then consideration being had of the safety and securitie of his Majesties protestant subjects an answer will be made therevnto 16. To the sixteenth proposition his Majestie cannot in Iustice to the foreclosing of the subject of his legall remedy for the recoverie of any goods chattels or rents unlawfully taken or detayned from him But for such-meane profits Customes prizes and Rents which have accrued unto his Majesty since the 23 of Octob. 1641. except the Customes received at VVaterford and Rosse since the 15. of September 1643. His majestie is content to remit the same the rest of the proposition is answered in the answer to the fourth proposition 17. To the seventeenth his Maiesty will be pleased that such persons as shall bee excepted out of the generall pardon shal be tryed by the knowne Lawes of this Land The Lord marques of Ormond now declares that albeit these answers are thus given by him in present to the said propositions yet that hee intends not to be thereby concluded from altering the same or adding thereunto in any parts there of In such sort as he shall finde cause upon further debate Some of the reasons which moved His Maiesties most humble and loyall Subiects the Confederate Roman Catholicks of Ireland to present certaine Propositions to His Excellencie the Lord Marques of Ormond Lord Lieutenant of Ireland His Maiesties Commissioner THe first Proposition that concerneth the freedome of the Catholicke Religion and the repeale of all Lawes made against the professors of that Religion is a demaund not in favour of any innovation but for that Religion which the Inhabitants of this Kingdome anciently and like wise the English Colonies come at first into this Land and their heires for many descents have professed and doe professe at the present and which before the raigne of King Henry the VIII was professed by the Kings of England and their subiects generally And it may be further added and confidently affirmed that there are no subiects in the world of what other beleefe or profession soever in Religion that held themselves so inviolably tyed to the preservation of that monarchy to whom they owe subjection and allegeance as the professors of the said Roman Catholicke Religion This proposition consisteth of two branches the first for the repeale of certaine acts the second that the freedome of their Religion may bee allowed to the said Catholickes For the cleering of the first branch the said Catholickes doe not presse the totall repeale of the said statutes their humble request being that the great penalties pressures incapacities and other unavoidable inconveniences by the said statutes imposed on them alone may be removed as to them by act of Parliament By one statute found among the Records of Parliament of this kingdome in the second yeare of the raigne of the late Queene Elizabeth cap. 1. 2. the said Catholickes are made subiect to the arbitrary power of an high Commission Court or other Commissioners to be appointed by his Maiesty or the Lord Deputie for the time being may be questioned punished for all offences touching Religion Irish statutes fol. 261. likewise fol. 270. and 271. the Archbishops Bishops and Ordinaries of another Religion have heavily punished and may still punish the said Catholickes for Marriages Christenings done according to the Catholicke Religion and every Catholicke was driven to pay nine pence every Sunday for not repayring to Church to the great impoverishment and destruction of the said Catholickes and no profit at all to his Maiesty By the said statute fol. 261. and 262. not onely the Catholicke Clergie are excluded from all dignities benefices Ecclesiasticall but likewise the Catholicke Laytie of all degrees and qualities are rendred incapable of all Civill offices from the highest judge to the petty Cōstable likewise from Marriall offices or imployments even to be a common Souldier in his Maiesties army where any fee or wages are due without first taking the oath of supremacie upon refusall of the said oath all dignities offices or wages are forfeyted No Catholicke can sue Livery or Ouster le maine for his estate or any part thereof out of his Maiesties hands without taking the said oath by the same statute of 2 Elizab. cap. 1 fol. 265. a. If any Catholicke of what estate degree or qualitie soever within this kingdome doe by writing printing teaching preaching expresse words deede or act affirme hold stand with set forth and maintayne any other authority preheminence power or iurisdiction in matters Ecclesiasticall or Spirituall then the person so offending his abbettors ayders promovers and counsellers shall for the first offence forfeyte their goods and Leases and suffer imprisonment for one yeare for the second offence incurre the paines and forfeytures set downe by the statutes of Provision and Praemunire whereby the offender is put out of the Kings protection imprisoned during his life and his goods and lands forfeyted For the third offence the offender is punishable as in case of high Treason Then by consequence if any of the Catholicke Laytie take or procure a dispensation for mariage within the eight degree or any other licence or dispēsation from any authorised by the See of Rome is a principall offender and if he heares
erection of the Court be numbred for one that gayned civilitie or breeding during their minority many will be found to have departed the said Court with ignorance losse or impayring of their estates and other great inconveniences No diminution of his Majesties profit is desired the personall service upon all occasions shall be performed The extinction of this Court and of the Tenures in capite or by Knights service is humbly desired to be taken away and a course for his Majesties profit and service and preservation of Heires and Orphans and satisfaction of Creditors shall be then humbly proposed The respit and issues of homage being of no considerable advantage to the Crowne and an intolerable yoke to the subject is likewise desired to be taken off and a way of equall benefit to his Majesty shall be proposed 10. The great number of these Lords uninteressed in the kingdome their ends in seeking for those honours and the late introduction of the example being considered it may be easily judged how unequall or unjust it is that the votes of men of no estate and never resident in the kingdome if not for designe should impose a charge wherein they contribute nothing or put Lawes by which they are not bound themselves 11. The independencie of the Parliament of Ireland of the Parliament of England is so cleere and manifest by Law Iustice usage and necessitie that they humbly desire it may not bee driven into dispute yet in as much as the Royall assent wrested from his Majestie to the acts of subscription may draw a preiudice or discountenance upon our Parliament a declaration herein and act of Parliament is desired 12. This proposition is in it selfe so reasonable and the restraint layed on the Councell-Table from taking cognizance of matters determinable in the Kings ordinarie courts of Iustice by the Common Law the great Charter thirty times confirmed by Parliament and sundry other acts of Parliament of force in this Kingdome is so manifest and cleere that there is no need of further reasoning or proofe for the same therefore it is consonant to Law Iustice that the partyes aggreeved should bee restored to what they lost and left in statu quo c. as is desired and that no matter determinable in the ordinarie Courts may bee determined at the Councell-table 13. This proposition being for free trade and commerce so necessarie for advancement of his Maiesties service and profit and so indifferently inducing to the weale of his people it is conceived that all who are interessed in the Kingdome ought to contribute their endeavours for the attaining of what is thereby humbly desired 14. The place of chiefe governour of this Kingdome being of so great honour and high trust and therfore to be conferred upon such as studie his Maiesties service and the prosperitie of the Kingdome without regard to particular interest this limitation will keepe the chiefe governor warie from offending any subiect or descending so low as to give occasion even of speech that his actions are unwarrantable or his purchases acquired by oppression men are to bee chosen for this place that have no need to purchase 15. The malice and power of the malignant partie in England and Scotland and of their adherents abroad and threatned danger of in vasion to bee made by them and the invitation thereunto of many in this Kingdome who are knowne to have studied and plotted the ruine of this Kingdome are motives sufficient for the granting of the contents of this proposition and that the Kingdome be alwayes in posture of defence of it selfe and all the well affected subiects thereof 16. The passing of an act of oblivion to quiet and secure the mindes of all his Maiesties subiects in a case so generall wherein the most of his Maiesties subiects one way or other are involved is so necessary and so pursuing the presidents and examples not onely of England and Ireland but also of other States and Kingdomes that without the passing thereof some Imbers of mischiefe may still remaine which may though God forbid turne unto great flammes witnesse the Barons warres the warres of Yorke and Lancaster these present troubles of England and Scotland and other examples even in this Kingdome And it there be any possibilitie to relieve all particulars when the generall concernment is in question 17. Honour Iustice equitie and reason of State doe pleade for this proposition Wee desire notwithstanding those reasons to bee admitted to shew such further and other reasons and adde hereunto what wee shall thinke fit touching the matters wherein the answers are short or not satisfactorie As the Lord Lieutenant in his answer gave the Proposers no occasion to use any unfitting expressions so hee may not but declare the Comparison and some other expressions in their preamble to bee very unnecessary and unseasonable and such as hee may not admit however hee now offereth An Explanation of some of the answers given by IAMES Marques of Ormond His Majesties Commissioner for the concluding of a Peace in this Kingdome to the Propositions of His Maiesties Roman Catholicke subiects of Ireland with some further Concessions 1. Answ FOr the exception taken to the answer to the first Proposition although neyther the statute of 2. Eliz. c. 1. nor any other statute of force in this kingdome doe impose any mulct or penalty for saying singing or hearing Masse or keeping a Roman Catholicke priest in their houses yet his Majesty for the further satisfaction of his said Roman Catholicke subjects in any doubt or scruple that may arise upon the construction of any of the said statutes which may disquiet their mindes is graciously pleased that a declaration of the law as unto that point be prepared and published And his Majesty is likewise graciously pleased to suspend the high Commission Court And that as the oath of supremacie hath not beene imposed upon any of them of late times upon the suing of Liveries so they shall for the time to come be admitted to sue their Liveries upon taking the oath by his Majesties directions in that case provided which being added to the answers to the eight proposition by which his Majesty hath declared that they shall receive such markes of his favour in offices and places of trust as shall manifest his Majesties good acceptance and regarde of them may for the present aboundantly satisfie his said subjects And for the repeale of any of the acts intended by the said proposition his Majestie will further advise 2. Answ For the exception taken to the word new Parliament in the answer to the second proposition Whereas a free Parliament was propounded The said Lord Marquesse declares that the said new Parliament is to bee as free as by the lawes and statutes of this kingdome any parliament to bee held in this kingdome ought to be yet so as no interpretation be from thence made that there should bee any proceeding in the said parliament in any particular contrary
to the agreement on this Treatie As to the exception taken to the clause in the answer viz. that the parliament shall be dissolved upon an attempt onely of propounding any other matter then shall be agreed upon by the articles of peace albeit the clause is not so as it is recited Yet the Lord Marquesse for their further satisfaction is pleased that the word attempt be left out of the clause wherein it is and it bee expressed in manner following viz. And that nothing be concluded by both or eyther of the said houses of parliament which may bring prejudice to any of his Majesties protestant partie or their adherents And for their desire to have Poynings act suspended forasmuch as it is assented unto that no act of parliament is to passe upon the suspension of Poynings act without transmission according to the usuall manner but what shall be provided for in the Articles of peace And that it is enacted by act of parliament of force in this kingdome that Poynings act cannot bee suspended but by Bill to be first agreed upon by both houses of parliament in this kingdome which is likewise to be transmitted according to the usuall manner which will take up asmuch time as the transmitting of the Bils which are to bee agreed on this Treaty And seeing the benefits which shall be held fit to be derived to the proposers may be as effectually and with more speed done without suspending of Poynings act as by suspending thereof His Majestie doth not see cause why the same should be desired But he is very apprehensive of the prejudice the suspension thereof may bring upon himselfe and the publicke service by disquieting the mindes of his protestant subjects in both kingdomes if that he should admit such innovation at this time there being no necessitie thereof and therefore his Majestie aswell for that as other weighty considerations may not vary as unto that particular from his former answer 3. Answ If both or eyther of the houses of parliament have made any orders wherein his Majesties concurrence hath not beene It doth rest onely in the power of the house or houses and not in his Majestie to vacate such orders except they doe appeare in themselves to be illegall And in such cases his Majestie will declare such to be voyde and give directions for the vacating of them as in the particular whereof instance is made for excluding members duely elected and returned according to the established lawes of this kingdome out of the house of Commons who should refuse to take the oath of supremacie which without an act of parliament to warrant it cannot bee in such case imposed but his Majestie may not admit the present parliament to be voyde nor declare all that hath beene done therein since the seventh of August 1641. to bee voyde for that many orders much tending to his Majesties honour and the safetie of this kingdome wherein both houses did joyne have beene made since that time as the prohibiting the taking of the Covenant so destructive to Monarchy and the Church which hath been condemned by both the said houses Their joynt approbation of the late Cessation The petition wherein both houses joyned to his Majestie and others of that kinde 4. Touching the exception taken to that part of the answer to the fourth proposition concerning the Generall pardon The Lord Marquesse declares that it is meant thereby that the said generall pardon shall extend to restore them excepting such as shall be on this Treaty agreed to be excepted to their bloud and estate by act of parliament whereby all Grantes Letters-patents Acts Letters Promises shall bee avoyded But his Majestie cannot in justice publish any such Proclamation or give any such direction to the parliament as is desired before the persons intended to be charged be heard and the matters suggested proved which if they shall his Majestie will then doe therein what shall be just And in the meane time cannot thinke ill of his ministers of state imployed in this kingdome nor of the proceedings of any of his Majesties Courts of Iustice And for their desire that there should be no exception in the pardon his Majestie may not assent thereunto 5. His Majestie will be pleased that debts doe stand in statu quo having as unto such who shal be agreed in this treatie to be excepted out of the generall pardon and excepting one particular summe which hath beene payed into his Maiesties Exchequer 6. His Majesty may not agree to the avoyding of the Plantations in the countie of VVicklow Territory of Idough in the countie of Kilkenny part of the Lands in the countie of VVicklow viz. the Ranelagh being confirmed by act of parliament and so much of the rest of the lands in the said county as fell to his Majestie upon the division and the Territory of Idough being passed by Letters-patents under the great Seale upon the Commission of Grace for remedy of defective Titles strengthned likewise by act of Parliament which his Majestie may not in honour avoyde And his Majestie doth conceive it were unsafe for divers of his Majesties subjects who have purchased estates grounded upon his Majesties title that the statute of Limitations should have such a retrospect as is desired which in time would overthrow the estates of many of his Majesties subjects who acquired estates for valuable considerations And therefore his Majestie may not assent thereunto but for taking off or abating of Rents contracted or agreed for his Majestie is pleased that the course prescribed in his answer to the twelfth additionall proposition be observed 7. His Majestie may not admit that the governing of the Innes of Court Vniversitie and free-schooles by such statutes rules and orders as his Majestie shall approve of and be agreeable to the customes of England will debarre Roman Catholickes so long as they are of that Religion from attayning to the lawes of the Land or any other learning within the kingdome for those of that Religion in England and who goe from hence doe attayne the knowledge of both in the Vniversities and Innes of Court there in an eminent manner and may doe the like here 8. There being no offices or place excepted in the former answer the Proposers may rest satisfied therewith it being in his Majesties power to dispose of such places and offices by his Letters-patents as occasion shall be offered and thereby to remove all impediments mentioned by the Proposers 9. His Majestie doth not admit such abuses to have beene in his Court of wards and the ministers thereof as are set forth in the reasons for the ninth proposition untill proofe bee made thereof And his Maiestie doth beleeve that exceeding great benefit may redound to the kingdome by the continuance and right ordering thereof And therefore conceiveth his former answer to be reasonable And it seemeth not equall which is propounded that there should bee first an extinguishing of the Court and the Tenures in
this Kingdome or in England bee recompenced out of the estates of those malignant in this Kingdome The Answer of IAMES Marques of Ormond his Majesties Commissioner for the treatie and concluding of a Peace in this Kingdome for and in the Name and behalfe of his Majestie to the additionall Propositions of his Roman Catholicke subjects of Ireland c. VVhen all the particular demands made on the behalfe of his Majestie the Church and his Majesties Protestant subjects and their partie shall bee concluded his Majestie will be graciously pleased on his part to agree to the particulars hereafter expressed viz. 1. TO the first proposition his Maiestie hath declared his pleasure in this point excepting in that part which concernes privie Counsellors in his answer to the eight grievance in the seventeenth yeare of his Maiesties raigne which his Maiestie will be graciously pleased may stand as a rule in this case And as to that part which concernes privie Counsellors the same shall be humbly represented to his Maiestie and his Royall pleasure therein expected 2. To the second proposition his Maiestie will be graciously pleased to assent to this proposition yet so as first there be care taken to secure his Maiesty in the particulars proposed in the sixt and seventh Articles of the demands in the behalfe of his Maiestie delivered by the Lord Lieutenant on this treatie to the Lord Muskery c. 3. To the third proposition The particulars wherein it is desired that the Court of Castle-chamber may be limitted are to be proposed and then such consideration shall bee had of this proposition as shall be fit 4. To the fourth proposition his Maiesty will be graciously pleased that the two acts in this proposition mentioned be suspended for such time as on this treaty shal be agreed on 5. To the fift proposition The lawes have already provided for the manner of appointing Sheriffes from which course his Maiestie thinkes not fit to vary 6. To the sixt proposition After a peace shall be fully setled application may be had herein to his Maiestie who in his high wisedome best knowes how to extend his Royall favour in this particular 7. To the seventh proposition For the first part of this proposition the Lord Lieutenant declareth that his Maiesties Commission to him warranting this treaty gives him authoritie to conclude a Peace but gives him no authority for pubâ—lshing such a Proclamation or for such a prosecution as in this proposition is proposed and for the later part of this proposition the granting thereof is inconsistent with the condition of a free parliament 8. To the eight proposition when the Proposers shall present to the Lord Lieutenant the names of the persons in this proposition intended to be impeached and attaynted such consideration shal be had of this proposition as shal be fit 9. To the ninth proposition the proposers setting downe the particulars of the things contayned in this proposition such consideration shall be had thereof as shal be fit 10. To the tenth proposition his Maiesty will be pleased to advise concerning this proposition 11. To the eleventh proposition this is left to further consideration on debate 12. To the twelfth proposition this is not held fit for his Maiesty to be assented to on this treaty yet the case of remittals or abatements we intend humbly to represent to his Maiestie who will be graciously pleased in fit time to set downe such a course herein by Commission or otherwise as may still further magnify his goodnesse and indulgence to all his subiects 13 To the thirteenth proposition his Maiesty may not assent to this it being against the libertie of the subiect and the lawes of the Land 14. To the fourteenth proposition Such of the estates in this proposition mentioned as shall a crue to his Maiesty is to be left to his Maiesty to be disposed of as in his high wisedome he shall thinke fit Demands in the behalfe of His Maiestie 1. THat present restitution bee made by the Confederate Roman Catholicke Party of the Command Rule and Government of the Cities of Limmericke VVaterford Kilkenny and Cashell the Townes of Galway Clonmell VVeixford and Rosse and of all other Cities Townes Counties and Territories of right belonging to his Majesty and now in the possession or under the command of the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party that restitution be like wise made by them of all his Maiesties Castles Fortes Lands Tenements and hereditaments and of all his Maiesties Ordnance Artillerie Armes and Amunition which have beene seised on or taken by the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party since the 21. of October 1641. in the Cities of Limmericke VVaterford Galway the Castle and Towne of Newry Charlemount and other places within the kingdome And that all such power Iurisdiction or Government as hath beene assumed by the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party over their partie since the 22. of October 1641. be from hence forth abrogated deserted and deemed voyde And that all his Maiesties subiects aswell the Roman Catholickes as others within the kingdome shall be from henceforth ameaneable to the Lawes of force in this kingdome and obedient to his Maiesties government and Courts of Iustice 2. That all the Armies raysed by the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party with their Armes and munition and such Fortes Garrisons and Wardes as are now kept by them shall from henceforth be under the command of his Maiestie and his Maiesties Lieutenant or other his Maiesties chiefe governor or governors of this kingdome for the time being and such others as his Maiesty from time to time shall appoint 3. Thirdly that his Maiesty may be answered such certayne Rents Compositions and Casuall profits and Subsidies and all Customes and Subsidies for Merchandize as were accrued and growne due before and on the 23. of October 1641 and which shall from henceforth grow due 4. That all the remaine of the thirty thousand eight hundred pound appearing to be payable to his Maiestie by the Instrument signed by the Lord Muskery and others dated 16. of September 1643. which hath not yet beene payed in money or Cattle in manner as in an Instrument signed by the said Lord Muskery and others dated the xvj of September one thousand six hundred forty and three is expresled bee payed to his Maiesties Vice-treasurer and Treasurer at Wars or to his deputy or to such other person or persons as the Lord Lieutetenant or other chiefe governor or governors of this kingdome for the time being shall appoint to his Maiesties use by the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party at by or before the day of next 5. That the said Confederate Roman Catholicke partie doe make a true account and present payment of his Maiesties Customes and Impositions of VVaterford and Rosse according to the Booke of Rates for all such Commodities as have been exported out of or imported into the said Harbours since the xv of September 1643. 6. That the grant
of the Licencing of retayling Wine and Aquavitae and of transportation of Linnen-yarne at per packe in Ireland towards the support of the charge of this kingdome may be setled by act of Parliament upon the Crown according to the resolution in his Maiesties late graces in the yeare 1641. with some apt Proviso that they may be kept and continued as a Revenue to the Crowne 7. That on the pound of Tobacco be setled by act of parliament unto his Maiesties use as a Custome upon that Commoditie whereupon the emption of Tobacco to be free and the Monopoly wholy taken away Demands in the behalfe of the Protestant Clergie 1. THat the Archbishops Bishops and all other Ecclesiasticall persons be presently restored to their respective Churches Iurisdictions and possessions both spirituall and Temporall and to the free exercise of their severall and respective functions and that they enjoy the same without any interruption to be given thereunto by the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party in such manner as they have enjoyed the same before and on the 23. of October 1641. 2. That all Cathedrall and parish Churches and all Archbishops and Bishops Mansion-houses which have beene any way demolished or defaced by any of the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party shall be withall convenient speede by the Confederate Roman Catholicke party repayted and put in as good condition as they were on the 23. of Octob. 1641. 3. That for the present subsistence of the protestant Clergy they may be allowed the one halfe of all the Tythe Corne belonging to their benefices respectively arysing out of this present Harvest 1644. within the quarters allotted by the articles of Cessation to the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party or the value thereof Demands in the behalfe of all His Maiesties Protestant subiects and their Party 1. THat present restitution be made unto them of all their Castles Lordships Mannors and all other Hereditaments and Chattles reall of what kinde soever whereof they were seased or possessed by themselves or their Tenants on the 22. of October 1641. and which remayne within the quarters allotted by the Articles of Cessation to the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party 2. That where any of the goods Evidences or writings of the protestant subjects and such as adhere unto them have beene delivered in trust to any that are or have beene of the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party to be kept by any of them That such goods Evidences and writings be restored to those that so delivered them in trust as aforesaid or to their heires executors administrators or assignes 3. That all goods which have beene pillaged and taken away by any of the said Confederate Roman Catholicke party which may be had in specie and the property whereof was not altered by sale in market before the 24. day of Iune 1644. being the day of the date of his Maiesties Commission warranting this Treaty be restored or otherwise the Proprietor may be left to his remedy at Common-law for the recoverie thereof and that any sale in market since the said 24. of Iune shall be no hinderance or barre thereunto 4. That where any of that party have pillaged or taken away any goods from any of his Maiesties protestant subiects or any adhering to them betweene the 21. of October 1641. and the 21. of Ianuary 1641. that the party so pillaged may be left to take his remedy at law for recovery of his goods or damages for the same against such who did so pillage them 5. That all Castles and houses which were surrendred upon quarter upon Articles under hands wherein it was undertaken that the said Castles or houses should bee preserved from being destroyed or demolished That the said Confederates who have so articled may rebuild the said Castles or houses in as good state as they were at the surrendring up of the same upon Articles as aforesaid 6. That where any Lands belonging to his Maiesties protestant subjects or their tenants or adherents have beene possessed by any of the said Confederate Roman catholicke party and corne sowen therein by any of that party since the 15. of September 1643. that the said protestant subjects or their adherents who by themselves or their tenants were possessed of the said Lands on the 22. of October 1641. or their Heires Executors Administrators or Assignes may respectively receive the fourth sheafe of all the said corne this present Harvest 1644. or the value thereof These propositions thus made in present are not in exclusion of any other propositions which we shall adjudge necessary to be propounded or insisted on for the glory of God the honour of his Maiesty the interests of his good subjects and the safety of the kingdome nor in exclusion of sundry other particulars which may be necessary for us to insist on as conducing to the formerly mentioned ends and which may arise upon the present Treaty Answers to the demands made by the Lord Lieutenant in the behalfe of His Maiestie 1. TO the first Demand his Maiesties faithfull subiects the Confederate Catholickes of his kingdome of Ireland doe answer that the Cities and Townes in the said demand mentioned are and alwayes have beene ruled and governed according to his Maiesties Lawes and the Charters unto them respectively granted by his Maiesty and his Royall progenitors and predecessors Kings and Queenes of England and Ireland and are preserved and kept by the said Confederate Catholickes for his use and service against the malignant partie and their adherents And as for his Maiesties Fortes Castles Territories Hereditaments Ordnance and Artillery in the same demand mentioned the same are likewise kept and maintayned for his Maiesties use and service and the safetie of the kingdome and his Maiesties interests therein against such as are joyned in a rebellious covenant and are actually in armes against his Royall person And they know of no considerable amunition taken by the said Catholickes and such as was so taken and much more was by them imployed in his Maiesties service And as to the power and jurisdiction mentioned to be assumed by the said Confederate catholickes they say they were necessitated to rule and governe their party to avoyde the extirpation of their Religion and Nation plotted and contrived by the said malignant party and to preserve his Maiesties rights And their proceedings were and are as neere and consonant to the lawes of the kingdome as the state and condition of the times did or can permit And they will bee ready to relinquish the said rule and government upon a full setlement of the affaires of the kingdome 2. To the second they answer that the armies raised by the said Confederate Catholickes were raysed and the said armies Fortes Garrisons and Wardes in the demand mentioned are maintayned for the safety of the kingdome and to preserve his Maiesties interests and the said armies alwayes were and are in actuall service accordingly and that upon a full setlement the same are to be
tyranny and oppression or that any tyranny or oppression hath been exercised upon his subjects in that Kingdome However his Maiestie will take care that such Governors shall not continue longer in chose places then hee shall find for the good of his people there and is content that they shall bee inhibited to make any purchase other then by lease for the provision of their Houses during the space of their Goverment in such manner as is desired 15. This proposition is to be explayned and some particular wayes to bee proposed to his Maiestie for the doing thereof And then his Maiestie upon due consideration of the safety and security of his Protestant Subiects will returne his Answer 16. Answered in the fourth and fifth 17. Such persons who shall be excepted out of the Act of Oblivion shall bee tryed by the knowne Lawes of the Land The Answer of IAMES Marques of Ormond His Majesties Commissioner for the treaty and concluding of a Peace in this Kingdome for and in the name and behalfe of His Majestie to the Propositions of His Roman Catholicke subjects of Ireland VVHen all the particular demands made on the behalfe of his Majestie the Church and his Majesties Protestant subjects and their party shall be concluded his Maiestie will bee graciously pleased on his part to agree to the particulars hereafter expressed viz. 1. To the first proposition his Majestie will bee graciously pleased if his said Roman Catholicke subjects shall by their obedience and loyaltie merit his Majesties favour and protection that they shall not for the future have cause to complaine that lesse moderation is used towards them then hath been in the most favourable of Queene Elizabeth King Iames his times But his Maiestie for divers waighty considerations will further advise before hee consent to the repeale of any the Acts intended by the said Proposition 2. To the second his Majestie will bee graciously pleased to call a new Parliament upon condition that all particulars therein to bee passed by act of Parliament be first agreed on betweene us his Majesties Commissioner and Donogh Lord Viscount Muskery Alexandermac Donell and Nicholas Plunket Esquiers Sir Robert Talbot Baronet Dermot O Brien Patricke Darcy Geffrey Browne and Iohn Dillon Esquiers or any five or more of them who are deputed by his said Roman Catholicke subjects to treate with Vs about the same And the said Acts so agreed upon bee transmitted according to severall acts of parliament in that behalfe provided And that there shall be no attempt by his Majesties Roman Catholicke subjects in that parliament to passe any other act then what is agreed upon as aforesaid and first transmitted or to bring any other prejudice to any of his Maiesties protestant subiects in this kingdome And if any thing shall be attempted in the said parliament to the contrarie that then his Maiesties Lieutenant or other Chiefe Governor or Governors before whom the said parliament shall be holden shall forthwith after such attempt dissolve the said Parliament without expecting any further direction from his Majestie for the same But his Majestie for divers waightie considerations will bee further advised before that he doe consent to the suspension of Poynings Act. 3. To the third his Majestie will be graciously pleased that none of his said Roman Catholicke subjects shall suffer any prejudice by any Acts or Ordinances passed in this present Parliament since the time in the Proposition mentioned by reason of the present commotion but his Majestie cannot legally declare Acts or Ordinances made in Parliament which are in themselves lawfull to be voyde nor give warrant to take them off the file 4. To the fourth his Majestie cannot in course of Iustice by his Proclamation declare indictments attaintures out-lawries Letters-patents Grants Leases Bonds Recognizances or any other legall record to be voyde or taken off the file But his Majestie will be graciously pleased to grant a full and Generall pardon to all persons whatsoever excepting such as hereafter upon this treaty shal be thought fit to be left thereout for all Treasons rebellions and other crimes whatsoever growing and arising for or by reason of the same And will likewise give his consent that an act bee passed to that purpose in which his Majestie will admit any clauses to enlarge his mercy And his Majestie will be further graciously pleased to determine all custodiums which have beene granted since the 22. of October 1641. 5. To the fift proposition his Majesty cannot in Iustice consent to the taking away of any debts due to his subjects who have committed no offence which might occasion the forfeyture thereof But for such debts as have accrued unto his Majestie by the attaynture or fugacie of any of his Majesties Roman Catholicke subjects since the 23. of October 1641. His Majestie will be graciously pleased to remit so many of them as have not beeen payed into his Majesties Exchequer or received otherwise to his Maiesties use or by his appointment 6. To the sixt proposition his Maiesty will be graciously pleased to release and quite his right to all such lands in the said proposition mentioned except within the Counties of Kilkenny and Wickloe upon the Termes formerly assented unto by his Maiestie in his answer to the grievances in the 17. yeare of his raigne and will consent to such an act of limitation as is desired 7. To the seventh his Maiesty will be graciously pleased to consent to an act for the taking away any incapacitie as Natives eyther to lands or offices if any such there be and will willingly consent to the erecting of an Innes of Court Vniversitity or free-schooles Provided that they be governed by such statutes rules and orders as his Maiesty shall approve and be agreable to the Customes of England 8. To the eight his Maiesty will be graciously pleased that such of his Maiesties said subiects within this kingdome as shall manifest their dutie and affection to his Maiesty shall receive such markes of his Maiesties favour in offices and places of trust as shall manifest his Maiesties good acceptance and regarde of them 9. To the ninth proposition his Maiestie will take care that his good subiects of this kingdome shall not be oppressed by his Court of Wards And if oppressions of that kinde have beene upon good and due information his Maiesty will cause Iustice to be done for the time past and for the future will prevent the like by instructions But for the taking away of that Court his Majesty can make no answer till the particulars for his satisfaction bee set downe and presented unto him 10. To the tenth Proposition his Majestie consented as farre as is fit for him in this point in his answer to the 25 grievance in the seventeenth yeare of his raigne the which hee is still willing shal be enacted looking forwards still to five yeares to begin after the peace concluded 11. To the eleventh Proposition his Majesty conceives the substance
disposed of as his Maiesty will direct 3. To the third they say that so much of the profits therein mentioned as grew dew since the seventh day of August 1641. on which day happened that inforced and fatall adjournement of the parliament from whence all the distractions of this kingdome did spring as was received by the said Confederate Catholickes and many an hundred times more was by them imployed and expended in his Maiesties service for the defence of the kingdome And the said profits for the time to come after a full setlement are to be disposed by such hands as his Maiestie shall thinke fit 4. To the fourth they say that the free gift granted to his Maiestie by the said Confederate Catholickes is already over-payed as shall be made appeare upon account by the supreme Counsell of the said Confederate Catholickes to whom that affaire is intrusted 5. To the fifth they say that the Portes of VVaterford and Rosse being within the quarters of the said Confederate Catholicks by the Articles of Cessation they have according the said articles received the profits accruing out of the customes of those portes and imployed the same in his Maiesties service and defence of the kingdome 6. 7. The matters contayned in the sixt and seventh Demands are properly to be determined in such manner as shal be agreed upon in the conclusion of this treatie And what further concernes the said demands or the matters in them or any of them contayned wee conceive proper for a debate to bee determined upon conclusion of the treaty The said Confederate Catholickes doe referre their answers to the demands made on the behalfe of the protestant Clergy to the first of the propositions presented by them And to the debate and determination thereof Answers to the Demands made on the behalfe of His Maiesties Protestant subjects 1. TO the first the said Confederate Catholicks doe answer that after a full setlement of affaires reciprocall restitution is to be made aswell to the said Confederate Catholickes and every of them as also to his Maiesties said protestant subiects and to every of them other then such of the said protestants as are or shal be joyned in a rebellious covenant against his Maiesty or adhere to the malignant party of their respective Castles Lordships Mannors hereditaments and Chattels reall whereof they were respectively seised or possessed on the 22. of October 1641. within the quarters allotted to eyther party by the articles of Cessation And other then the Castles Lordships Mannors and hereditaments in the county of VVicklow and in the Territory of Idough out of which the Natives thereof were by an high and injurious hand or extrajudiciall arbitrary proceedings expulsed since the yeare of our Lord God 1633. 2. 3. 4. To the second third and fourth they say that the said Confederate Catholickes are much more â—â—mnified therein then the said protestants And yet in regard the same may beget many endlesse suites troubles they conceive they are fit to be seriously debated and finally ended upon the setlement 5. To the fifth they answer that they know of no Forte or Castle that was demolished contrary to articles And when the particulars shall appeare they will give particular answers 6. To the sixt they say that the Confederate Catholicks doe receive no profit of their estates detayned from them wherefore they conceive it not equall that the protestants should receive the profits of their estates untill after setlement and then the profits of both estates are to be reciprocally received by all parties respectively in such manner as shal be agreed upon Reasons why His Majesties said Roman Catholicke subjects are not satisfied with the answers delivered them by his Excellencie the Lord Marques of Ormond Lord Lieutenant of Ireland his Majesties Commissioner to certaine Propositions by them presented to his Lordship on the fourth of September in the twentieth yeare of his Majesties raigne IN asmuch as most of the reasons declaring how the said answers are not satisfactory doe appeare eyther in the said propositions themselves or in the reasons afterwards in the moneth aforesaid presented to your Lordship setting forth the necessity of the said propositions to avoyd reiteration what is in the said propositions or reasons expressed is herein omitted It is therfore huÌ„bly desired that your Lordship in your consideration of the reasons now presented will distinctly apart reflect upon the said former propositions reasons The said Catholickes upon exact scrutiny and search by them Reasons against the first Answer made of their consciences and actions finding nothing more desired by the one nor aymed at by the other next to the homage which they owe to the King of kings then the advancement of his Maiesties service the setling of a full peace quiet in this his kingdome of Ireland they do therfore with heavinesse of heart apprehend some expressions in the first answer viz. If the said Roman Catholicke subiects shall by their obedience and loyaltie merit his Maiesties favour and protection whereas the said Roman Catholickes are as obedient loyall subiects to his Maiesty as any other his subiects without exception whereas their thoughts or actions have never deserved to put them out of his Maiesties protection yet the occasion of their said apprehenhensions they may not ascribe to your Excellency who is intrusted by his Maiesty with the acting directing part in this great affaire now in Treaty but unto some instrumentall cause or other mistake And as to the rest of the said first answer viz. That when all demands made by your Lordship unto the said Catholicks in his Maiesties behalfe or on the behalfe of the protestant Clergte and on the behalfe of his Maiesties protestant subiects are concluded and vpon such merit as is before expressed the said Catholickes shall not have cause to complaine that lesse moderation is used then in the most favourable of Queene Elizabeth or King Iames his times and his Maiestie will be further advised upon the repeale of the statutes made against the said Catholickes Although the said Roman Catholickes are most confident of his Maiesties grace and goodnesse yet so great is the penalty imposed by statutes of force in this kingdome extending to the goods estates liberties lives and corruption of bloud of the said Catholicks that they must live in restlesse feares so long as those extreme punishments hang over them and in case his Maiesty by Letters-patents under his great seale or otherwise will declare his Royall pleasure against the execution of those statutes upon the said Catholickes yet those feares will hardly be removed thereby such is the malice of the malignant party who have vowed the totall destruction of the said Catholickes that their adherents here though not knowne to be such will never want will and cannot want opportunity sufficient to indict the said Catholicks upon the said statutes the Iudges before whom the said indictments are found by
your Majestie may now bee pleased and may take just occasion to inlarge the time when that Kingdome may againe be setled in a happy and firme peace And as to members of the house of Commons the same is most fit as wee humbly conceive to be regulated by the Lawes and statutes of that Kingdome 11. This proposition concernes your Majesties high Court of Parliament both of England and Ireland and is beyond our abilities who are not acquainted with the Records and presidents of this nature to give an answer unto and therefore Wee humbly desire your Majesties pardon for not answering unto the same 12. The Councell-Table hath alwayes exercised Iurisdiction in some cases ever since the English government was setled in that Kingdome and is of so long continuance in cases of some natures as the beginning thereof appeareth not which seemeth to bee by prescription and hath alwayes beene armed with power to examen upon oath as a Court of Iustice or in nature of a Court of Iustice in cases of some natures and may bee very necessary still in many Cases especially for the present till your Majesties Lawes may more generally be received in that Kingdome And wee conceive that Board is so well limitted by printed Instructions in your Maiesties Royall fathers and by your Majesties Grace in the seventeenth yeare of your Raigne that it needeth for the present little or no further regulating at all Howbeit they humbly referre unto your Majesties great wisdome and goodnesse to doe therein as to Law and Iustice shall appertaine 13. The matter of this proposition is setled in a fitting and good way by your Majestie already as wee conceive amongst the Graces granted by your Majestie to your people of Ireland in the seventeenth yeare of your Raigne to which we humbly referre our selves 14. Wee humbly conceive that this proposition tendeth to lay a false and scandalous aspersion upon your Majesties gracious government over Ireland And that it trencheth very high upon your Wisdome Iustice and Power under collour of supposed corruptions pretended to bee in the greatest Officer that commandeth under your Majestie there if hee continue so long in his governement as may well enable him to find out and discover the true state of that Kingdome and the dangerous dispositions and designes of the Popish partie there to prevent him therein and to turne him out from doing service before or as soone as hee is throughly informed and experienced how to doe the same and then to hold him excluded so long that in all likelyhood hee shall not live to come to that place the second time which wee humbly conceive will bee a great discouragement to any person of honour and fortune to serve your Majestie in that high trust And for the purchasing lands in that Kingdome your Majestie may bee pleased to leave them to the Lawes and punish them severely if they commit any offence or exercise any oppositions under collour of purchasing of any lands or estates whatsoever 15. The having of trained bands in Ireland for the present cannot under favour be for your Majesties service or the safetie of that Kingdome For that the Protestants by the sad effects of the late Rebellion are so much destroyed that the said bands must consist in effect altogether of the Confederate Catholicks and to continue them in armes stored with ammunition and made ready for service by mustering and often training will prove under collour of advancing your Majesties service against forraigne invasion a meere guard and power over popish forces always in readinesse to protect the Popish Confederates and by force and Armes according to their late oath and protestations to execute all their cruell designes for extirpation of the Protestant Religion and English Governement both which they mortally hate Howsoever in cunning they dissemble it and to prevent the setling an armie of good Protestants without which your Maiesties good subiects cannot live securely there 16. Wee humbly pray that the Lawes of force bee taken into consideration And doe humbly conceive that your Majestie in honour and Iustice may forbeare to discharge or release any actions suites debts or interests whereby your Maiesties protestant subiects who have committed no offence against your Maiestie or your Lawes should be barred or deprived of any of their legall remedies or iust demands which by any of your Maiesties Lawes and statutes they may have against the popish Confederates who are the onely delinquents or any of their party for or in respect of any wrongs done unto them or any their ancestors or predecessors in or concerning their Lands goods or estates since the contryving or breaking forth of the rebellion The said Confederates having without provocation shed so much innocent bloud and acted so many cruelties as cannot be parralleled in any storie And we conceive it to be high presumption in them upon so weake grounds to propound an act of oblivion in such generall termes some of the Confederates having beene contryvers or actors of such cruell murders and other acts of in humanitie as cry to God and your Sacred Maiestie for Iustice And they having of your Maiesties Revenues customes subsides and other rights of your Crowne in their hands or destroyed by them to the value of twenty hundred thousand pounds and more 17. We conceive this proposition is made but for a florish if the Confederates be so desirous to try their innocencie as they pretend they need not stay for another Parliament in Ireland but submit to that which is now in being which is an equall and iust Parliament as in some of your reasons touching that point is expressed and they offering to draw it to a new Parliament is in effect to desire that they may be their owne Iudges for as that Kingdome is now imbroyled and wasted the chiefe delinquents or Confederates will be so prevalent a faction in the next Parliament that they will be able and doubtlesse will cleere all the popish party how guilty soever and condemne all the protestants how innocent soever These answers to the high and unexpected demands of the Confederates we have framed in humble obedience to your Maiesties directions but being very sensible as of the weight and great importance of the businesse so also of our owne weakenesse and want of time and well knowing that some of your Privy Counsellors Iudges and Officers of that Kingdome are now in Towne sent for over and here attending by your Maiesties command who by their long observation and experience of the affaires and state of Ireland are better able to give your Maiestie more full and satisfactory answers touching the premisses then we can And conceiving that the Collections in Answer to the said Confederates Remonstrance which wee humbly presented to your Maiesty the 27. of the last moneth of April may in many things give your Maiesty more light then these our answers doe or can Wee humbly beseech your Maiesty that the said privy