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A89918 Problemes necessary to be determined by all that have, or have not taken part on either side in the late unnaturall warre. For the making of their peace with God and disposing them to a hearty peace one with another. By reflecting upon what they have done, before they engage in a new more dangerous and doubtfull warre: dedicated to the Lord Major, aldermen and Common-Councel of the Honorable City of London. / By P.D. Nethersole, Francis, Sir, 1587-1659. 1648 (1648) Wing N497; Thomason E458_20; ESTC R203004 17,363 31

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whom a suite at Law or a warre is or by whom the one or the other is managed as whether they be Protestants or Papists religious or prophane civill or debauched make any thing to the justice of the warre or suit or ought to encline Jurors or Partakers to the one side or to the other 27. Whether the good or ill manner of managing a suite or a warre ought to be of any more weight with Jurors or Partakers seeing a good Cause may be ill managed and an ill well And whether a Suite or a Warre undertaken and commenced upon just grounds can turne to be unjust by any subsequent miscarriages in the one or in the other except the point in issue happen to be altered through the cleare discovery of some concealed further designe in one or other of the parties or some other intervening accident as it frequently falleth out in long-breathed suites at Law and came to passe in the Bohemian warre by the death of the Emperour Matthias which made a very considerable difference in the Case from that it was when the troubles began in his life time 28. Whether the accidental present interest or the future advantages or disadvantages of what kinde soever which may accrew either to the parties themselves or to the partakers or to any third person or to the publique by the respective issue of a warre or suite and whether the suspected or knowne designes or intentions either of the parties or of their partakers to make ill use of the victory ought to be of any more force with Jurors or Partakers or whether they ought to be blinde to them also and to all other like circumstances and respects 29. Whether the consideration of the accidental and consequential interest of God himselfe in the issue of a matter in debate between two parties that are in warre ought to engage souldiers or contributers to take part with the one or with the other more then Jurors in a like case the reason to the contrary being the same in both to wit because God hath no need of mans sinne in either to maintaine his Cause or glory and it being a manifest sinne in a Juror to have any respect thereunto how considerable soever such interest of God may be as will be cleare to the meanest capacity by putting the case between an Atheisticall Church-Papist and a godly zealous Protestant or Puritane touching the perpetual advowson of a great Rectorie and no lesse cleare in the case of a warre between two Princes semblably qualified touching their title to a Kingdome divided in the profession of Religion 30. Whether a meerly civil cause of cleare justice in which true Religion is much interessed though but by consequent may not justly be called Gods cause and ought not to be undertaken more heartily and maintained more vigorously by all good Christians in that respect especially when the interest of religion is the onely or maine motive to the opposition made by the adverse party which was the case of the great Henry the fourth of France who in that regard was commonly prayed for as fighting the Lords battels and is the case of the Prince Elector Palatine and of Prince Rupert his brother who in all appearance might ere this have recovered their ancient estates and dignities to which by the lawes of the Empire their title is unquestionable by the same means that the said King did his Crowne if God by his grace had not made his example too fearfull to them 31. Whether the entitling of God to any purely civil and clearly unjust cause in respect of the interest of his true Religion involved by consequent only in the successe thereof be not a sinne against the third Commandement and of a high nature and whether any damage which may happen to accrew to Gods true Religion by occasion of the issue of such a Warre will not be put to his account that was in the wrong in the point of the justice of the Warre though he were in the right in the point of the truth of his religion and whether that will not be a heavie aggravation of his sinne 32. Whether the parties and others interessed in a purely Civil Cause of dubious justice wherin Religion is no otherwise concerned then as abovesaid do well to engage themselves and to indeavour to ingage others therein under the title or colour of religion or whether it be not a great sin to do this wittingly and wilfully especially in them who being Ambassadours of a King that hath publiquely declared his kingdom not to be of this world and that accordingly refused to make himselfe a Judge of Civil inheritances between brethren will hardly be able to shew that they have any Commission from him to entangle themselves and much lesse to interesse his name in such affairs of this world and it being well knowne that in the old Law it was death for a Prophet to presume to speak a word in his name that he had not commanded Deut. 18.20 33. Whether it be lawfull for Christian subjects to take up Arms against their Soveraign for reformation of the Religion by law established or in defence of their Religion not established by law or of their lives or livelyhoods in danger by due execution of Law our blessed Saviour having expressely forbiden them to save their lives by such meanes with the addition of a most peremptory threatning if they do and of most gracious promises if they patiently lose their lives or livelyhoods for his sake And whether the truth or falsehood of their Religion or the power or number of them that attempt any of the things aforesaid doth make any difference in the case though they be the Major part of the true or of the representative Body of a kindome Or whether all these be not Anti-Christian proceedings directly contrary to the doctrine and practice of Christ and of all his holy Apostles and of the whole Church of God for many ages and particularly of the Church of England since the Reformation 34. Whether the defence of the Religion by law established be not more properly a defence of the law then of the Religion And whether it be not lawfull for Subjects of one Religion or profession to take up armes in defence of their lives or livelyhood against the violence and force of their fellow-subjects of a contrary Religion or profession though established by Law and though they pretend to have or have authority from their Soveraigne to massacre or plunder them for that Cause unlesse their said fellow-subjects first bring or endeavour to bring them to a due Legal triall And whether the truth or falsehood of their Religion or the number of the thus oppressed doth make any such difference in the case in point of justice that one man of what Religion soever hath not as much right to defend himselfe against violence as another or as a multitude or that a multitude of what Religion or number soever
empeached of treason might not then without danger have submitted to their tryall appointed by Law supposing the formerly accused Members had also then submitted to a Legal tryal and should have been tryed first and would have been acquitted by their Peeres so as there had been no pretence of a just Warre on his Majesties part for their detainer 45. Whether the sixth Article preferred against the said accused Members be not by his Majesty avowed to be the chiefe head of their Charge aswell in his Majesties said Declaration as in the Articles themselves the said Article being comprised in these words That for the compleating of their traiterous designes they have endeavoured as farre as in them lay by force and terror to compel the Parliament to joyne with them in their traiterous designes and to that end have actually raised and countenanced tumults against the King and Parliament And whether the maine Charge against the Lord Digby and other Incendiaries in the Parliaments said Declaration of the fourth of August 1642. be not the very same viz. their combining to bury the happinesse of this kingdome in the ruine of this Parliament and by forcing it to cut up the freedom of Parliament by the roote as it is expressed page 494. And whether the maine charge of the Army against the eleven Members be not to the same effect And whether in common discourse some do not charge Others to be as guilty of the same crime as any of the accused by the Army by the Houses or by his Majesty 46. Whether they who in their private judgements have absolved the Speakers of the two Houses in which they are but the shadowes of his Majesties sacred person from all blame in what they did the last summer can with much equity or justice condemne his Majesty for having withdrawne himselfe from the tumults at Westminster when time was allowing all to be true which hath been alleaged by his Majesty and others in his behalfe for motives inducing him thereunto And whether any thing and what and how much is wanting to make the retirement of a part of the Members of both Houses to an old Army which had refused to be disbanded at their appointment a just parallel to the retirement of a much greater part of the Members of both Houses to Yorke or Oxford and there contributing their assistance toward the raising and maintaining of an Army And whether if this last mentioned Army had found no more opposition in their march to Westminster and through London then the forementioned Army did the last year the said Members needed to have done any more then was then acted by the General and Officers of the said Army for the compassing of their designe **** Desunt nonnulla **** 47. Whether upon the whole matter Whereas it was alleaged on both sides that they took up Armes in defence of his Majesties person of the true Protestant Religion which words ought to be understood of that which in this Kingdome is established for true of the Lawes and Liberties of the Kingdome and of the power and Privilege of Parliament The truth be not That the last onely to wit the Privilege of Parliament was in Question if the question were about matter of right none of the former having been or having on either side been said to be in any danger otherwise then as the freedome of Parliament was by both sides pretended to have been intended to be by the ther impeached And whether freedome being the maine Priviledge of Parliament and the providing for the freedome of the Parliament and of all other Assemblies having been said to belong to the King by the Prelates Earles Barons and the Communalty of this Realme assembled in Parliament at Westminster of purpose to take advice of this busines in the seventh yeare of King Edward the first And that by the Statute then made it was declared that it is the Kings part through his Royall seigniory straitly to defend force of armour and all other force against his peace and to punish them which shall do contrary according to the Lawes and usages of this Realme and that all the Subjects thereof are thereunto bound to aide the King as their Soveraigne Lord a all seasons when need shall be Whether I say in the late action at Warre taken as commenced on the part of the Parliament the onely point of fact in issue were not whether his Majesty either did proceed or would have proceeded according to the Laws and Usages of this Realme in the accusation of the Lord Kimbolton now Earle of Manchester and of the five Members of the House of Commons charged with an indeavour by force and terror to compell the Parliament to joyne with them in their Traiterous Designes and with having to that end actually raised and countenanced Tumuls against the King and Parliament I say would have proceeded Because his Majesty taking notice that some conceived it disputable whether his proceedings against the persons aforesaid by his Atturney were legall and agreeable to the Priviledges of Parliament was pleased to wave those his proceedings and to Declare That when the minds of men were composed he would proceed against them in an unquestionable way And whether in the late action at Warre taken as commenced on his Majesties part the onely point of fact in issue were not whether his Majesty did ever refuse to deliver the Lord Digby or any other duly accused Incendiary to a Legall tryal before the beginning of the Warre 48. Whether his Majesties Sollicitor have not fully declared his being of opinion that the justice of the great Cause yet depending between the King his Master and his two Houses of Parliament must come at last to be determined by matter of fact in a speech by him made at Guild-hall at a Common Hall there held on Friday 6. October 1643. upon the occasion of desiring the assistance of our Brethren of Scotland in this Warre in the words to be read page 5. of the Copie of that Speech published according to Order and printed by R. Cotes in 1646. And whether the truth of any matter of fact be not more surely determined by producing witnesses upon Oath then by Tryall by Battell The words last cited In case they be called in we are to consider then what alteration this is like to make we are therefore to consider how it comes about that the Party comes to be so equall that so many should engage themselves on the other Parry as we see they do certainly a great many of them do it being uncertain in their judgments to which side to cleave Another Party they do it because that they out of feare desire to keep their estates and stand Neuters For the first of those certainly both at home and abroad those that are averse they look upon us as a Protestant Kingdom but divided among our selves they heare Protestations on both sides that both Parties do protest to maintaine the Protestant Religion the Lawes of the Kingdome and the Liberty of the Subject and they see and read the Declarations that go out on both sides and the matter of fact being that that makes the cause they know not what to believe of that The words cited page 18. All this before we meddled with Hull or Magazine or Militia shew plainly that our Act in securing them was not the cause of the Kings taking up Armes and exercising hostility upon his loving and loyall subjects which was in the thought and endeavours of those about the King who then had and still have the greatest influence upon his Councells before we thought of Hull or Militia or any thing else of that nature And then that our resigning of them now would not prevaile with him to make him lay down his Armes and return to his Parliament and gratifie the earnest and longing desires of his people to enjoy his presence favour and protection But that if he could recover either by our resignation or any other way pieces of so much advantage to him and weakning to us use would be made of them to our infinite prejudice and ruine the intention being still the same not to rest satisfied with having Hull or taking away the Ordinance of the Militia But to destroy the Parliament c. FINIS
ought not to forbeare such defence of their persons or estates as well as any one single man of the same Religion or profession if proceeded against one by one in a due Legall course And whether in some occasions where summary proceedings against many at once are used and allowed in other matters the same ought not to be submitted unto in this also for conscience sake provided that the proceedings be such as may make it appeare that they suffer as Martyrs or confessors for Christs sake And whether there be any danger that the gates of hell should prevaile against the Church of Christ if all true Christians should suffer themselves thus to be killed like sheep or whether it have not ever been most enlarged at those times when Christians were most willing to yeeld to be so robbed or killed 35. Whether all they who by a mistake of the quarrell doe any way engage themselves or others in a just Warre upon unjustifyable grounds be not murtherers before God though not before men as a man may committ adultery with his own wife if in the darke he chance to take her for another mans And as a Juror may do unjustly in giving a just verdict if he do it upon unjust grounds through a mistake of the evidence or through ignorance of the Law 36. Whether they who engage themselves in an unjust Warre upon just grounds be therby wholly absolved from the guilt of blood any more then a Juror is that giveth an unjust verdict to the taking away of his neighbours life upon just but untrue grounds or then he is free from adultery that lyeth with his neighbours wife taking her for his own if the mistake happen through their own fault in either case 37. Whether all they who though they understand the right of the quarrel in a just Warre yet engage themselves or others therein upon unjustifiable motives as for private revenge or gaine or with minds any otherwise disposed then purely to procure a yeelding to the justice thereof be not also guilty of all the bloodshed therein as a Juror may be a murderer in consenting to the taking away of his neighbours life by a just verdict how cleare soever the Law or evidence be to him if he be induced thereunto by his owne private spleene or by the bribery or sollicitation of some other revengefull third person or by any other by-respect and not meerly by the merits of the cause 38. Whether they who at one time have allowed or approved of the same proceedings or actions in themselves or others of their owne opinion or party which at another time they have condemned with severity and punished with rigour in others of a contrary opinion or party in the managerie of one and the same true or pretended cause of Warre have not in so doing pronounced sentence of condemnation against themselves or can have any well-grounded hope long to escape the heavie judgement of God and his revenging hand for this so wicked partiality how holy righteous or sober soever they may be in other passages of their lives And whether they who will by no meanes agree that others should have an act of Oblivion in this world for those faults or crimes whereof themselves are no lesse guilty then their neighbours can have any hope of pardon for their owne transgressions of either sort in that world which is to come 39. Whether it may be lawfull for a People to depose that Prince to whom they or their Representants have sworne Allegiance in any imaginable case considering and comparing what is writen Exod 20.7 Psal 15.4 Joshua 9.1 to the end 1 Sam. 8.10 to the 18. Deuteron 17.14 and 15. Ezek. 17.11 to 21. Jerem. 52.3 to the 11. there being perhaps few stronger cases to be imagined for the dispensing with the obligation of an Oath then that was of Joshua and of the Princes of the congregation having sworn to the Gibeonites Zedekiah to Nebuchadnezar the first upon meere circumvention both contrary to the expresse command of God and yet the wrath of God having been revealed from heaven against the breakers of those Oaths ********************************************* 40. Whether in the late great controversy between his Majesty and his two Houses of Parliam it was not the duty of every good Christian and loyall subject of this Kingdome desirous to approve his heart to God and his actions to men especially to those whom God hath set over him to the end before he took any part in that War carefully to peruse and with indifferency to weigh the respective Allegations contained in those many severall Declarations published by the Kings Majesty on the one part and by the Lords and Commons on the other part since the first breach between them and particularly those whereby they have respectively given the people of this Kingdome and the whole world an account of the Reasons of their having taken up Armes whereof that of his Majesty beareth date 12 Aug. 1642. being also the date of the Proclamation whereby his Majesty gave notice of his resolution to set up his Royall Standard at Notingham upon the 22th of the same moneth And that of the Parliament was set forth in the beginning of the same moneth I think before his Majesties 41. Whether upon the attentive reading of the said respective Declarations it will not be evident to every intelligent man capable to judge of affairs of this nature that the present unhappy Warre is not or at least was not a Warre of Religion otherwise then as Religion may be much concerned by consequent in the issue thereof And whether this will not be yet more evident by comparing the conclusion of his Majesties said Declaration of the 12.th of Aug. from the paragraph beginning in these words Our Case is truly stated c. to the end thereof with the Preface of the Ordinance of the Lords and Commons for a weekly Assessment throughout the whole Kingdome for the maintenance of the Army raised by the Parliament 4. Martii 1642. which beginneth in these words The Lords and Commons now Assembled in Parliament being fully satisfied and resolved in their consciences that they have lawfully taken up armes and may and ought to continue the same for the necessary defence of themselves and the Parliament from violence and destruction and of this Kingdom from foreigne invasion and for the bringing of notorious offenders to condigne punishment which are the only causes for which they have raised and doe continue an Army and forces which cannot possibly be maintained nor the Kingdome subsist without the speedy raising of large and considerable sums of mony proportionable to the great expences which now this Kingdome is at for the supporting of the said Army and for the saving of the whole Kingdome our Religion Lawes and Liberties from utter ruine and destruction In which words the Lords and Commons it may be occasioned by many indiscreet defences of their proceedings made by