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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A93884	The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2.	Steuart, Adam.	1644 (1644)	Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880	197,557	205

Gospeller yee shall have in a short time as many Religions as dayes yea as houres in a yeare yea without all doubt I tremble to say it the Lord preserve us from it as many Gods as ever the Greakes and Remans had Wherefore in the name of God take heed yee all most Honourable Worthies of the two Houses of Parliament to this most damnable Tenet 14. Princes Kings and Iudges in Scripture are called Deliverers or Saviours of the people because they defend the Church from her Oppressors Iudg. 2.16 such as be Hereticks Schismaticks c. If therefore yee be our Iudges most Honourable and worthy Senators it is your part to defend Gods people the Religion which he hath established in his Word and to destroy Oppressors and the Enemies thereof I meane not their Bodies but their Oppressions their Heresies and Schismes 15. Masters have power to put Hereticks and Schismaticks out of their houses in case they be pertinacious Ergo Princes and Magistrates have the same power in the State for there is the same reason for both viz. not to suffer God to be offended so far forth as in us lyeth 16. What power is juris naturalis is to be exercised in all times and places according to our power But the power to punish Hereticks c. is Iuris naturalis Erge it is to be exercised in all times and places The first Proposition is certaine for that which is juris naturalis changeth not but is the same in all times and places because it is not grounded in any inconstant or voluntary institution of our will but in the immutable ordinance of Nature which dictates the same thing to all Persons in all times and in all places The second I prove because it is a Dictate of the Law of Nature that such as trouble the true Religion are to be punished and Moses gives you a naturall reason of it viz. for they will turne thy heart away from the Lord thy God Deut. 7.4 and 13.5 the reason will be thus who ever in all Morall probability will turne the peoples heart away from God it is the Civill Magistrates duty to punish him But Hereticks c. are such Ergo it is the Civill Magistrates duty to punish them it is Moses argument 17. If the Civill Magistrate punish not Hereticks he should become a partaker of other mens sins because he hindereth them not so farre forth as in him lyeth by his Civill Power viz. in punishing them neither carrieth he the sword in vaine neither can it be better employed then in punishing pertinacious sinners such as are Hereticks and Schismaticks But he should not become a partaker of other mens sins as the light of Nature and Scripture teacheth us 1 Tim. 5.22 18. If he punish not Hereticks then every man in the Kingdome shall have power to mould himselfe a new Religion according to his owne heart as the Israelites did their golden Calfe and doe what should seeme right in his owne eyes But the Consequent is absurd Deut. 13.8 Neither was it permitted amongst the Heathens themselves that any man should bring in new Gods or new Religions by their owne private authority We read how the Athenians sentenced Diagoras Anaxagoras and Socrates for their new Opinions in matter of Religion and Philastrius telleth us how the Audiani were condemned for Hereticks because that they commended all Sects and Heresies why not also the Independents for commending and defending the toleration of them all 19. Because we pray to God for Kings and for all that be in Authority that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all Godlinesse and honesty 1 Tim. 2.2 By their conversion to Christ v. 3 4 5. to the end that being converted they may defend Religion in punishing Hereticks and Schismaticks and so in repressing of Schisme and Heresie 20. Because in a State wherein all men professe the truth the peace of the State cannot be otherwayes preserved nor the safety of the Kingdome which is the ultimate end of the Civill Magistrate qua talis and the supreme Law of the Republike be obtained for how shall peace safety and unity be procured amongst Orthodox Subjects but by unity in Truth and how can the bond of unity be any wayes so soon and so easily broken as by diversity of Religions And this the Ecclesiasticall History fully sheweth us for what miseries cannot these Schismes breed when the Husband is of one Religion and the wife of another the Father of one and the Sonne of another Brethren and Sisters of divers Religions the King of one and the Subjects of another How many Families hath it dissolved how many Cities hath it destroyed Have we not Examples fresh and bleeding before us in Ireland c It hath cost some Kings their Crowns some their lives and endangered others of their life and Kingdome both Yea what is one of the principall causes of our present divisions betwixt the King and the Subjects Is not Arminianisme Socinianisme the Archiepiscopall I know not what Religion Some call it Popery some Socinianisme others Arminianisme others Lutheranisme others some mixture of Religion not much unlike to Samaritanisme But be it what it will diversity of Religion and not punishing of Hereticks and Schismaticks is the principall cause of all these our miseries and confusions 21. The Civill Magistrate is to punish such as marry with those of a contrary Religion and that because they are of contrary Religions as appeareth by the texts of Scripture already alleadged Deut. 7.2.3 How much more those who are of contrary Religions nam propter quod unumquodque tale id magis tale for it is a greater sin to be an Idolater or an Heretick then to be married to them 22. Those with whom we cannot enter into Covenant cannot be tolerated among us but must be at least exiled by the Civill Magistrate for to live amongst us they must at least enter into Covenant with us for an offensive and defensive warre against forraigne Enemies But with Idolaters Hereticks c. we cannot enter into Covenant Deut. 7.2 so Esdras and Nehemiah above quoted Ergo 23. Because God hath promised to destroy our Enemies if we destroy his wherefore rather then God should not destroy ours were it not policie to labour the destruction of his 24. The man who will not hearken to the Ministers of the Church and the Civill Magistrate the Civill Magistrate must punish him But Hereticks and Schismaticks are the men who will not hearken unto the Ministers of the Church and to the Civill Magistrate Ergo the Civill Magistrate must punish them The first Proposition is cleere The man that will doe presumptuously and will not hearken unto the Priest or unto the Judge even that man shall dye Deut. 12.12 Neither know I what can be answered save only that that must be understood of the Priest of the Old Testament But there is the same reason for the Ministers of the New Testament viz. 1.

Deut. 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.13 14 20.23.33 34.37 Deut. 7.6 7 8 9 10. Deut. 10.12.15.21 Deut. 26.17 18 19. Deut. 28.9 10. Deut. 29.13 14 15. And Deut. 32. vers 8 9. c. When the most High divided to the Nations their Inheritance when he seperated the sons of Adam Iacob was the Lot of his Inheritance c. Amos 3.2 You onely have I known of all the Families of the Earth Deut. 39.29 Happy art thou O Israel who is like unto thee O People saved by the Lord the shield of thy help and who is the sword of thy Encellency 2. Because Independents define a Congregationall Church a number of men Covenanted together to participate of Gods Ordinances viz. the hearing of the Word the receiving of the Sacraments c. in some one place every Sabbath day But all the Church of the Jewes could not meet in one place in such a fashion as every man will easily grant Ergo 3. Because the great Sanedrim at Jerusalem judged of all Ecclesiasticall Causes throughout all the Kingdome 4. Because the People of God besides their Assemblyes in the Temple which was an holy place common to all their Nationall Church had their particular Conventions in particular Synagogues And however men may doubt of these Synagogues whether they were exinstituto divino or not and of the time when first they began yet can it not be denied but if they were not divinae institutionis they were at least divinae approbationis 1. For they are no where condemned in Scripture 2. But Christ and his Apostles approved them in that they went ordinarily to them disputed and expounded Scripture in them 3. And submitted themselves unto the order and Discipline established therein Answ But the Independents will say that the Nationall Church is abrogated in the New Testament Iust 1. Then it is their part to point us to the place in the New Testament where it is abrogated 2. It cannot be abrogated in the New Testament for those Ordinances only of the Old Testament are abrogated in the New that belonged unto the Ceremoniall Law But to have a Church or a Church Government more then Congregationall per se or considered in it selfe belong not to the Ceremoniall Law Ergo The Major is certaine I prove the Minor 1. For it might have been even in the State of Integrity without the Ceremoniall Law 2. And so indeed it was after the Fall before ever Moses his Ceremoniall Law was made 3. And that is not meerely Ceremoniall whereof we may evidently give naturall reason or that which is evidently grounded in naturall reason or at least in so far as evidently grounded in naturall reason since it is meerely Positive But supposing that there is a Church of God to have a Church or a Church Government more then Congregationall and Independent is evidently grounded in naturall reason or a thing where evidently we may give Naturall reason c. as wee shall see hereafter Ergo 3. Only those things of the Old Testament are abrogated by the New which were shadows of things to come viz. of Christ Reall or Mistycall But such a Church i. e. more then a Congregationall Independent Church was not a shadow of things to come in Christ c. Ergo The Major is certaine for the things commanded or approved in the Old Testament belonged either to the Morall or to the Ceremoniall or to the Judiciall Law As for the things of the first sort they are juris naturalis and consequently perpetuall which are not abrogated and of themselves were not shadows of things to come As for those of the Judiciall Law of themselves they are not shadows but belong unto Civill Government which Christ abrogated not since his Kingdom was not of this world and if the Jews had submitted themselves to Christ and had been freed from externall oppression it is probable that they should have enjoyed their own Government according to the Judiciall Law so far forth as Judiciall neither was it his aym to overthrow any worldly States Policies or Politicall Laws Christs Kingdom was and is compatible with all the Kingdoms and States of the world if they will not destroy it and he will let them reign over mens bodies and purses if they can let him reign over their Souls These that were commanded in the Ceremoniall Law were indeed shadows but such was not a Church more then Congregationall To all these Reasons some have answered That they would have it proved by Scriptures of the New Testament just 1. But wherefore prove they their opinion by the Old Testament if they will not permit us the same liberty 2. Our former Reasons have sufficiently proved That proofs taken from the Old Testament should hold in all that which is not abrogated in the New 3. If in this Subject they reject the Scriptures of the Old Testament as the Jews in all things that of the New there will be two Errors Diametrically opposite the one to the other theirs and the Jews But to give them more contentment we will prove it likewise by Texts of the New Testament and first from that of the Acts Chapters 1 2 4 and 5. 2. A Church compounded of 8120. is more then a Parishionall or Congregationall Independent Church But the Church of Jerusalem Acts 1.15 Acts 2.41 Acts 4.4 was a Church compounded of 8120. yea of more as appeareth by Acts 5.14 26. Ergo The Church of Jerusalem was more sure then a Parishionall or Congregationall Independent Church The Major Proposition is certain for the Independents define their Church which Christ in his Gospel hath instituted and to which he hath committed the Keyes of his Kingdom the Power of binding and loosing the Tables and Seales of the Covenant the Officers and Censures of his Church the Administration of his publike Worship and Ordinances Caetus a company of Beleevers meeting in one place every Lords day for the Administration of the Holy Ordinances of God to publike Edification The Way of the Church of Christ in New England The due Right of Presbyteries Chap. 1. Prop. 1. From hence I argue thus The Church whereunto cannot be applyed this Definition because of its multitude is more then an Independent Congregationall Church But a Church compounded of 8120 is a Church whereunto cannot be applyed this Definition c. Ergo. The Major is certain The Minor I prove it for 8120. could not meet together every Lords day in one House c. For in those times Christians had not yet any Temples but gathered together in particular Houses which could not receive them all 1. Because they were not ordinarily spacious as great and rich mens Houses for as the Apostle sayeth There are not many wise men after the flesh nor many mighty nor many noble called but the foolish weak base and despised things of the world 1 Cor. 1.26 27 28. 2. Howbeit they had been spacious as rich mens houses yet could they not have received such

part of a Classe and so receiveth in part a Classicall power of jurisdiction whereby the Parochiall power which formerly she had is more sure and made lesse subject to aberration then it was before So her jurisdiction is not impaired but improved neither in it self should it be a temptation to you not to pray or to pray faintly as you say since such an Improvement to every good Christian ought to be matter of Thanksgiving M. S. But entirenesse of Government or subjection onely to those that are of the same society is a speciall mercy And their Nobles shall be of themselves saith God speaking of that great Goodnesse he meant to shew unto his people after their return from Babylon and their Governours shall proceed from the midst of them Jer. 20.21 So as it is made a Character of the prosperous Estate of Tyrus That her wise men that were in her i. e. of her own Nation were her Pilots Ezek. 27.8 2. Subjection unto Strangers is still spoken of as matter of punishment and sorrow Give not thine Inheritance to reproach that the Heathen should reign over it Joel 2.17 The Nation of the Iews were expresly forbidden to set strangers to rule over them A.S. What follows Ergo Entirenesse of Government i. e. An Independent Government in every particular Congregation compounded of seven or eight silly Fellows whereof many of them are tender Foreheaded and bashfull as M. S. telleth us pag. 74. is a mercy and blessing of God A. S. The Antecedent is not universally true 1. For it is good for Families Republikes and Kingdoms that cannot rule themselves that they be ruled by some others and there are some people as Aristotle tels us that are naturally servile Ergo They have need to be ruled by others And the Polonians sometimes chuse Forraign Princes to rule over them The Ragusians in Slavonia to entertain perfect equality amongst themselves chuse evermore a Stranger for their Bishop and therefore hold it not evermore best to be ruled by one of themselves So do they in sundry Elective Kingdoms 2. Howbeit I should grant that it is absolutely best yet should it not follow that it is best for every sort of Society every where and evermore for then it should follow 1. That it is not good much lesse best for us that Iesus Christ who according to his Manhood or the Apostles who were Iews should have been Universall Ministers over all the whole World since they were not chosen of every particular Kingdom much lesse of every Province but least of all of every particular Independent Congregation compounded of seven or eight weak Fore-headed men as M. S. stiles them 2. It should not be a blessing of God that the Crown of France should be subject to the Crown of England for so it should not be subject to a French man so we loose our right to the Crown of France 3. It should have been a punishment to the people of God to have been ruled by a King of one Tribe viz. of Benjamine as by Saul or of Iudah as by David Solomon Rehoboam c. for they were not of all the Tribes much lesse of every particular Congregation of seven or eight persons 4. This Maxime cannot stand with the State of our three Crowns for so it else should be a blessing to Ireland to be ruled by one of the Irish Rebels and a punishment to be subject to the Crown of England 5. By that same reason the Kingdom of Scotland and England could not without some punishment or curse of God upon the one or the other subsist in an Union together unlesse the King were both an English and a Scotchman 6. The Parliament could not be a blessing but a curse of God since the Members thereof are from divers Provinces Shires and Burroughes as the Members of our Nationall Synods So let the World consider how Traiterous how Hereticall and blasphemous this most abominable Maxime is tending to the totall subversion of the Church King Parliament State and Kingdoms 7. Yea it overthroweth even their own Maximes for their Synods are gathered of Members of different Churches as ours are 8. And finally Howbeit I should grant him his Maxime yet as I have said particular Congregations by the increase and multiplication of Churches and their combination in Synods loose not their entirenesse of jurisdiction which they had before viz. their Parochiall Congregationall or simple Presbyteriall power but retain it as formerly As for those Texts of Scripture 1. not one of them sayes that entirenesse of Government within themselves is evermore best and a mercy of God 2. Much lesse that entirenesse of Government within a petty Independent Church compounded of seven or eight weak Foreheaded Fellows is best for it For if it were so we must have as many little Popes in the Church and as many Kings in the State as there can be Independent Churches or particular Iudicatories in the Kingdom 3. The passage cited out of Ierem. 30.21 speaketh of Christ as appeareth by the Text for it is added And I will cause him to draw neer and he shall approach unto me For who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me saith the Lord Now who is this but Iesus Christ 1. But Christ was not a Governour of one particular Independent Church onely but of them all so this place concludeth an Universall Church instead of an Independent Congregation 2. Neither can it be expounded of the people of the Iews after the Captivity for after it they had no King from amongst themselves at least ordinarily For after the Captivity of Babylon Zerobabel and Nehemiah were as it were Vassals to the King of Persia even till Esdras obtained of Artaxerxes Longimanus that they should set it up again in form of a Republike Afterwards Alexander the Great being pacified towards the lews by the Intercession of Jaddus the High Priest they obtained liberty to live after their own Laws Afterwards Ptolomaeus son of Lagus King of Egypt having taken the City used them hardly No better usage got they afterwards under Antiochus Epiphanes the eight King of Syria Hitherto the Government was Ducall and all their Dukes of the House of David to the number of fifteen from Zerobabel to Ianna Afterwards the Royall and Ecclesiasticall power was in the hands of the Priests in the Assamoneans Family of the Tribe of Levi the which Government was extraordinary if not unlawfull and then the division about the Royall and Sacerdotall power betwixt the two Brethren viz. Aristobulus and Hircanus who had recourse to Pompey some sixty yeers before the coming of Christ made them to be reduced under the power of the Romans so that this great blessing of so great a Governour as is mentioned here cannot be interpreted of any worldly Prince or if it be so it is liker to the Presbyterian then to the Independent Government for the great Sanedrim was as it were our Nationall Synod both taken

S. 1. Your Argument is so spirituall that we cannot understand it Theologia symbolica non est argumentativa 2. We say it is no violence to oblige all to be subject unto Gods Ordinances 3. And to deny a Toleration to them that are contrary for by the same reason all Theeves should be tolerated and it should be forbidden to punish them M. S. telleth us pag. 90. in case the Minor part in that Nation had dissented from the Major about the sence of such or such a Law relating unto practise and so had dissented in this practise In case the Major part had taken the advantage of their Brethrens weaknesse and because they were fewer in number should have forced them against the light of their judgements to have altered their practise or if they refused should have trodden and trampled upon them it should have been as apparent a breach of the Laws we speak of as any oppression in Civill Proceedings A. S. If the Major part In such a case had oppressed the Minor part in consideration of their weaknesse or because of their weaknesse it would have been true but if the Major part in not forcing the Minor to be Actors in any thing against their conscience had hindered it from bringing in of a new Religion and a new Discipline against that which was ordained by God it had been no oppression no violence but an act of obedience to their God And as for that pretext of the tendernesse of Conscience it is the common refuge of all Hereticks and Schismaticks of the World Your pretended tendernesse of 〈◊〉 were it never so tender ought not to prejudice Gods Law ye must learn Obedience unto Gods Word if ye pretend to be his 〈◊〉 and ye must learn that every man must not do as seemeth good in his own eyes but that the Spirit of Prophets in publike Government must be subject unto the Prophets otherwayes all shall go in confusion M. S. telleth us again That to conscientious men Civill Liberty without Liberty of Conscience is of little value A. S. The greatest Liberty that Conscientious men can desire is to serve God and to obey his Ordinances and what is beside that is not Liberty but Licenciousnesse If ye value not such a Liberty ye are not worthy of it You may have Liberty of Conscience howbeit ye establish no new Discipline in the Kingdom M.S. his 3. Answ p. 90. Though God gave no such Toleration as you speak of by Law yet he did actually tolerate for a long time together with much patience not onely a Minor but a Major part of the Jewish Nation in a manner the whole Nation fourty yeers in opinions note riously sinfull Act. 13.18 So then you must tolerate your Brethren not onely in some Opinions and Practises which are Dialectically and Topically evill but even also in those which are Demonstratively such if you will follow the practise of God A. S. I answer 1. to the Antecedent That God tolerated not the Israelites in their sin absolutely for sundry times he punished their sins and that very grievously with pestilence mortality and making of them a prey unto their Enemies till such time as they repented and turned from their sin unto him and then he turned his anger from them yea Core Dathan Abiron and their Adherents for their Schism were swallowed up quick by the Earth and Aaron and Mirian strucken with Leprosie and God kept them all in the Wildernesse as in a Prison for the space of fourty yeers and suffered none of them to enter into the Land of Promise Onely he tolerated them in not punishing them by eternall death or ex condigno 2. Neither did God make any Law in favour of their sin to tolerate it as the Independents require here 3. Howbeit God himself tolerated much in them yet ordained he not that Church-men and the Civill Magistrate should tolerate them but commanded them both to oppose every one according to their Vocation and ordained sundry punishments against such kindes of sin in●●● Law 2. I deny the Consequence 1. For God is the Soveraign Legislator or Lawgiver who may dispence with his own Law and remit sin committed against it but so cannot we 2. Because we are subject to the Law and must obey it so is it not with God 3. We are bound by a particular Obligation and Duty to put it in execution so is it not of God 4. By the same reason ye may conclude as well That we must pardon sins give our Children to death for other mens sins or create a World if we will follow Gods practise 5. Gods practise is not to be followed by man but in that which is conform to his Law and his revealed Word For Christs Church is a Country wherein his people live not by custome or imitation of practise but by Law Wherefore since there is no Law for Toleration of Heresies and sins they must not be tolerated 6. I retort your Argument for since God punished his people grievously in those fourty yeers in the Wildernesse for their sin so should men now be punished for it 7. And since Core Dathan Abiron and their Adherents for their Schisms and complaints against Authoritative Power were punished by death so should such sinners now a dayes be so punished in like manner 8. And since the Israelites were not permitted to enter into the Land of Canaan which was a Type of the Christian Church no more should Hereticks Schismaticks and other sinners have liberty to enter into the Christian Church for in so doing we should imitate God 9. If this Argument hold all Adulteries Poligamies Drunkennesse Gluttony Idolatry c. must be tolerated in the New Testament since God tolerated such sins those fourty yeers in his people when they were in the Wildernesse I am exceedingly ashamed of you M. S. that you should be so absurd and impious as to plead thus for impiety and all sorts of Heresie and to hinder the Civill Magistrate so far as in you lyeth from punishing sinners A. S. 6. Reason was Either our Brethren do assent to our Doctrine and are resolved likewise to assent to the Discipline which God willing shall be established by common Consent or do not If they grant the first what need they any other Toleration then the rest If the second it would be first discussed wherein they are resolved to dissent and afterwards considered whether it be of so great importance that in consideration thereof they dare not in good conscience entertain communion with us M. S. Answer 1 Scarce see we any face of Reason in it A. S. 1. And yet if ye have any skill in Logick ye may see a Disjunctive Syllogism here 2. M. S. here falsifies my Reason for instead of these words The Discipline which shall c. he puts in your Discipline viz. Presbyteriall Authority which are not mine but his own words 3. Having so falsified my words he distinguishes his own phancies or words