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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A76085	The second part of that book call'd Independency not Gods ordinance: or the post-script, discovering the uncharitable dealing of the Independents towards their Christian brethren, with the jugglings of many of their pastors and ministers, to the misleading of the poor people to the detriment of their own souls, and the hurt both of church and state, with the danger of novelties in religion; proving that Independency, is one of the most dangerous sects, that ever appeared in the world, since mortality inhabited the earth. In the which also there is a satisfactory answer given to the principall cavils of him that writ that railing pamphlet, stil'd The falshood of Mr Will. Prynnes Triumphing in the antiquity of popish princes and parliaments. With Doctor Bastvvicks just defence against some calumnies in way of preface. / By John Bastvvick, Dr in Physick.; Independency not Gods ordinance. Part 2	Bastwick, John, 1593-1654.	1645 (1645)	Wing B1069; Thomason E287_9; ESTC R200091	93,218	111

Reformation thus long Ye see saith he that a little handfull of Independent Ministers in the Synod have given three Kingdomes imployment these two yeares so that they can do nothing and boasted of this wicked act as a matter of vantation and triumph So that if men well consider the whole negotiation of the Independents in the Reverend Assembly it is to hinder the work of reformation then the which there cannot be a more diabolicall designe And then they spread it abroad among the people that they have not liberty to speak when it is most notorious that one of them speaks more than half a dozen of the other Ministers And they have published it also all over the Town that the Presbyterians durst not let their reasons be set out in Print to the view of the world for they knew very well that as they were unanswerable so that all the people would forthwith have been of their judgement and by this their babble it is incredible how they have strengthned their Faction and gained disciples for their followers beleeve all they say as Gospell And truely if there were nothing but these their under-hand dealings and malicious practises and rejoycing at evill it were enough to make all men abhor their wayes but the truth is they have no certainty in any thing they beleeve to day and by their practises they contradict all their doctrine and tenents And that all men may be yet a little better acquainted with the Independent Ministers juglings I thought good to insert here these sixteen Observations sent me by a learned and godly Gentleman who is very well verst in all their doctrines and manners They are these 1. THey hold themselves the principall Labourers and Pillers of faith when as they professe that their present judgements shall not binde themselves for the future but that they beleeve all things with a reserve to alter their thoughts faith and judgements upon new or better Light 2. They pleade for liberty of conscience yet will impose a Covenant upon every mans conscience they admit into their congregations else exclude him 3. They plead against toleration of any corrupt members c. in a Church and yet plead for a toleration of all Religions in a State under the notion of liberty of Conscience 4. They plead against the Magistrates Coarsive power in matters of Religion and yet banish men in New England and expell all out of their Congregations that are not of their way 5. They pleade against Synods and yet they professe themselves members of the present Synod 6. They speak against Parochiall Congregations as against the Kingdome and Law of Christ and yet some of them accept of such and yet will neither Baptize nor administer the Lords Supper to their Parishoners though they take their tithes 7. They write against Tithes as Jewish Popish c. yet some of them take them and sue for them as greedily as any others 8. They condemne all set formes of Prayer or Preaching and yet themselves plead for a set forme of Church-Government Jure Divino in all particular circumstances whatsoever 9. They condemn non-residency and pluralities yet many of them have divers Livings and Lectures of good value and yet are resident and keep hospitality at none of them 10. They call some Presbyterians Lord Bishops because they ride now then on horse-back by reason of age or infirmity to the Assembly yet many of them ride thither in Coaches and some of them can ride 6. or 7. miles on the Lords day in a Coach and 4. horses to Preach an afternoon Sermon which Christ and his Apostles never did and no Presbyterian practiseth 11. They condemn Presbyterians of harsh language and bitternesse in their writings against them yet none are so desperately Libellous Satyricall and scandalous in their writings as many of them against Presbyterians 12. They professe nothing but truth and yet many of their writings savour with malicious mis-informations scandals forgeries untruths invented by themselves to defame their innocent Christian brethren 13. They pretend themselves the onely propugners of the Parliament Priviledges and Jurisdiction yet none more oppugned them in the hight of opposition as they 14. They professe themselves more estranged from and mortified to the world yet none more covetous oppressive ambitious of honours preferments and hunting after all manner of gainfull Offices and imployments as they nor none more unfaithfull unconscionable in them then some of them 15. They pretend the Scripture to be the onely rule of their way and Discipline and yet can produce no one Text or Example of Scripture for any thing their Church warrants or they hold wherein they differ from the Presbyterians 16. They dare not undertake to binde themselves for the future by any thing they held or concluded touching Church government much losse any of their party therefore it is vaine to dispute with or receive any thing from them in matter of government or discipline who will neither be bound by their own mother-judgements or practice but hold and practise all things only duranti bene placito Out of all the which as out of my former discourse it is easie for any man to gather that of all the Seducers that have yet appeared in the world these are most to be taken heed of whatsoever seeming holinesse they may make shew of to the people But that I may now draw to a conclusion of this my Postscript leaving the narration of many other passages of theirs till their Answer comes out which their followers say is ready for the Presse let me say this to all such as desire the knowledge of the truth in sincerity and that love peace that all men may see how fair we offer the Independents and all such as are affected to their novelties whereas the Independent Ministers have perswaded the people that their Arguments by which they have laboured to prove That in the Church of Jerusalem there were no more Believers then could all meet in one congregation to partake in all acts of worship were unanswerable and have affirmed withall that if it could be made evident or proved unto them That there were more Christians in the Church of Jerusalem then could all meet in one Congregation that then they would relinquish their opinion of Independency I and Mr. William Prynne Esquire my Brother in affliction who the Independents have causelesly maligned and reproached not to take the work out of any learned and godly Ministers hands who we honour for their singular erudition and worth and far prefer before our selves for all sufficiency and accomplished learning shall with all humility undertake to maintaine and make good these ensuing Propositions The first That there were more particular Assemblies and Congregations of Believers in the Church of Jerusalem then one The second That all those severall Congregations made but one Church The third That those severall congregations were all under one Presbyterie The fourth That the government of the Church of Jerusalem is to be a patterne of government to all succeeding ages The fifth That the gathering of Churches after the Independent way together with their Church-covenant and all other their proceedings wherein they differ from the Presbyterians hath neither precept nor president in the whole Word of God All these positions we undertake to make good against all the Independents in the Kingdome not out of any contention for victory but truth and that in the spirit of love and not in our own strength but and in the Name and in the Power of the King eternall immortall the mighty Potentate the Lord of Hosts And if we shall not by the grace of God and his blessed assistance be able to make good what we undertake we shall not refuse to undergoe the greatest censure for this our temerity But if we make good our tenents and evince and prove their Independency and the manner of the gathering of their Churches to be but their own inventions and meer novelties all the persecution that we shall then wish may be exercised against our Brethren for the great distractions and breaches they have made among us is this that we shall desire all the godly people of the City to be humble petitioners with us unto the great Councell of the Kingdome that as they lately made a pious and a godly Ordinance for the silencing of all such as undertook the ministery without sufficiency of abilities and a lawfull call so they would now silence all these novelties and command the Independent Ministers hereafter to preach the Gospell purely and sincerely to the people without those mixtures of their own traditions annexed to it by which they shall bring a great deale of glory to God honour to themselves and procure if not peace to the whole Kingdome yet love amity and unanimity amongst the people which ought to be the prayer of all those that wish the peace of Zion and the salvation of their Brethren and the welfare of the Nation My request to the Independents in behalfe of the Expectants and Seekers LIghts Lights Gentlemen-INDEPENDENTS hang out your Lights your New-lights there hang out your Newborn-lights there That the poore Seekers may finde a Church amongst you Imprimatur Ja. Cranford FINIS

as idolatry and errours is a cause of Gods wrath and by that a cause of all troubles so the removing of the cause is the way to settle the peace of Kingdomes And if we reade the History of the Judges and indeed all the Prophets and holy Scriptures we shall finde the not questioning and bringing of the Seducers and false Prophets to condigne punishment was the cause of all their captivities and of all the warres and troubles the Israelites were continually imbroyled with And therefore they that are acquainted with the holy Scriptures may easily see the falsity and impiety of this assertion to say nothing what all Ecclesiasticall Histories and the Stories of all Ages relate of the continuation of peace in all those Nations and Kingdomes as long as men were both questioned and punisht for bringing in of Heresies and teaching of false doctrines and as long as they preserved the truth of Christian doctrine amongst them which no sooner begun to be corrupted and errors set up but immediately upon it Gods wrath was kindled against those Kingdomes and Countries and if we will give credit unto the Word of God and to the Annals of times the suffering and tollerating of errors in religion amongst them was the cause that the Lord was angry with them and removed at last their Candlesticks from them as we may see at this day in the seven Churches of Asia and all the Easterne and Westerne Churches and if we will not shut our eyes we may see also it has been the cause of all these miserable distractions and troubles that now these three Kingdomes are involved in which if they had established the Gospell in its purity and kept out Idolatry and all Heresies wickednesse and Schismes we should not have thus been afflicted on every side at home and abroad for the neglect of our duties in not keeping out of errors in religion hath brought down all these judgements upon us and therefore the tollerating of them all would much more increase our misery and disturbe the peace both of the Cities and countrey and therefore all such as plead for a tolleration of all religions ought to be spued out of the Kingdome as prophane and impious men And this shall suffice to have been spoken of this third assertion which is indeed to make war against God himself and not against us only For the fourth where he saith That it is impossible to prescribe such a way for suppressing new or different opinions whatsoever which to any State or Church may seem hereticall but there will still be left a gap a possibility of fighting against God even when such State on Church think they fight for him most of all This Position also is not only contrary unto the Word of God but indeed overthroweth all authority and by this no justice should be done against any blasphemous Seducers or against any impious offendours in points of Religion or against such as offend against the Lawes of Kingdomes and Nations because for footh by doing of their duty which God requires at Magistrates hands there will still be left a gap and a possibility of fighting against God as if to do good and that which God enjoynes them would leave open a gap and a possibility of fighting against God I have read That we may not do evill that good may come of it I have also read that God can create good out of evill and bring light out of darknesse but I have never read in the Word of God That Christian Magistrates and Rulers should be deterred from doing their duty suppressing of Schismes Errors and Heresies because through the wickednesse of men and the craft and subtilty of Satan there may sometimes troubles immediately arise to any Nation by it All good Magistrates are to do their duty and what God commands and leave the successe to God and to commend themselves and their endeavours to the Lord who hath a recompence of reward in store for them for their well doing and ought not to be deterred from their duties by such poor cavils as these which are both impious and ridiculous And whereas in the fifth assertion he affirmeth That it is impossible that either the weak believers misbelievers or unbelievers can be wonne by our godly conversation as is required 1 Pet. 2.12 and 3.1 2. and 1 Cor. 7.12 16. So long as we will not suffer them to live amongst us What is this but openly to fight against Gods Word and God himselfe Who Deut. 13. and in many other places of Scripture commandeth that Secucers should be put to death and exterminated and cast out from amongst Gods people whose wicked conversation would corrupt others and be so far from winning weak Believers mis-believers or unbelievers as it would make them all worse and worse and utterly vitiate all the places they dwell in as daily experience teacheth us and as the Scripture affirmeth which assert that A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump 1 Cor. vers 6. As for the places of Scripture he there citeth as they make nothing for his purpose so they sufficiently shew that he is a meer stranger in Divinity and in the Word of God as I could evidently make appear if I studied not brevity And it might also be made evident that the banishments and persecutions of many of Gods people as well as their presence and co-habitations amongst the wicked have been the cause of many thousand mens conversions who seeing men willingly to relinquish all earthly things and leaving their own countries and nighest relations for their religion made others the more to look into that doctrine and to enquire after that religion that men for the love of would lose all things yea liberty and life it selfe which I say hath been the cause of the conversion of many thousands so that not only the presence but the absence of men is the cause of many others conversion by which the vanity of this assertion is also sufficiently manifest But it seemes strange to me that this wrangler should use this Argument to prove a Tolleration of all Religions when the practise of the Independents is contrary who cast all that are of a different opinion from them out of their Congregations and where they have power in their hands banish them from amongst them and yet here in England they would have all Religions tollerated to do mischiefe when Saint John notwithstanding in his 2 Epistle to the Elect Lady forbids her and in her all Christians to receive false teachers into their houses or so much as to bid them God speed lest they that shall so do partake with them in their evills by which doubtlesse he never gave a tolleration of all Religions but as I said before it is well known that people are converted many times as well by the absence of men as by their presence whether it be for errour or for the Truth for by enquiring after the cause of it and why they were

them lyes resist the Spirit of God for the Lord has againe and againe commanded all his people to shun such men as in Tim. 1. chap. 6. vers 5. From such saith Saint Paul to Timothy and in him to all Ministers and people in all ages to the end of the world withdraw thy selfe Now if an Evangelist so learned a man so well grounded a preacher as Timothy was to withdraw himselfo from all such as taught otherwise than Paul Christ himself the other Apostles had taught how much more now ought all Christians that come so far short and are so inferiour to Timothy for all indowments and graces of knowledge to beware and take heed of all such as bring in their new-born truths their new-Lights and all their new wayes when especially we are commanded to enquire for the old and good way which will indeed bring rest unto our souls Jer. 6. And to omit innumerable places to this purpose that of Saint Iohn in his second Epistle to the Elect Lady should ever be in our memory where Saint Iohn in expresse words forbids that Lady and her family and in them all other Christians To receive any that bring not the doctrine of Iesus Christ into their houses or bid them God-speed and gives a reason of this his prohibition For saith he he that bids him God-speed is partaker of his evill deeds Now all these new doctrines are not the doctrines of Jesus Christ and therefore whosoever bringeth them ought not to be received into our families nor their doctrines into our hearts no more then stolen goods into our houses and closets for God hath both forbid it and set down the danger that will ensue upon it for by that means we make our selves equally guilty and partakers with them in their evill and therefore all such as shall still notwithstanding whatsoever God hath spake unto us by his holy Prophets and Apostles follow those new teachers and those new truths by their so doing in conclusion they will be found fighters against God and partake with them in all those punishments the Lord hath threatned against all such as will be led about with every wind of Doctrine which will be the ruin of themselves and others and if people will be disobedient and obstinately go on to make Schisms and rents slighting Gods threats and menaces and cast his word behind their backs then it belongeth unto all Magistrates Ministers Fathers and Masters of Families that are Christians for I speake not of such as are without the pale of the Church seeing what already these new Sects have with all their Art and cunning invented contrived and with unwearied paines and ungodly policy brought forth into the world that the Magistrates are counted intollerable to the people wives are taken from the bosomes of their husbands or so alienated from them as they repute the● a burthen unto them the Husbands from the Wife Children from their Parents and Patents from their children and the Servants from their Masters and Mistresses Friends from Friends the Ministers from the people and the flocks from their Pastors and that all the lawes of God and Nature by these means are violated I say in all these regards it is high time if they will prevent those evils that are comming upon the Land by these fractions and divisions now to quit themselves like men not caring for all the reviling languages of Seducers who yet never spake well of any but of their own party for it is against the nature of Sectaries to give any a good word but their own complices and therefore it concernes them all to goe about the work as men of courage and in the fear of God And truly if men think it as it is indeed an unsufferable thing to tolerate those Men-stealers who they call Spirits or a new generation of Fayries to seduce and carry away their children and servants then much more it is an unsufferable thing to tolerate those that steale away not only the bodies of men and children from Magistrates Ministers Parents Masters and Mistresses Friends c. but their very hearts and affections and are no better in so doing then a company of spirituall Plunderers and are to be looked on as so many enemies of the Church and kingdome Neither is there any breach of charity in speaking truth with love and an unfained desire of their reformation for if they be not reformed nor their New-lights extinguished and put out they will in short time dim and darken the truth it selfe and provoke the Lord to give us all over to error because we imbraced not the truth in the love of it 2 Thess 2. But I must confesse I look upon many of the Independent Ministers as the most dangerous Sect that ever yet the world produced in respect of the consequences of their doctrines and the sad effects they have brought forth already wheresoever they have spread it For they carry themselves more cunningly then any other Schismaticks or Hereticks that ever yet appeared since mortality inhabited the World For all other Sectaries tenents are recorded in all the severall Councels and in the Monuments of the ancient Writers so that every man knowes their opinions and doctrines but what these men hold besides their whimsey of Independency and the manner of their gathering of Churches wherein they doe not all agree neither no man knoweth nor never shall know for they intend to set up many other New-lights but yet with a reserve never to be constant to any thing what they either say or write for this I have received from the mouthes of their Disciples and followers That if that which seemeth a truth to them to day do to morrow appear otherwise by some new light were it any Article of the faith and they be convinced by that light that they were in an error before they are to relinquish their former tenent whatsoever it were and to follow that new light that God hath appeared to them in And this doctrine is taught by all the Independents I ever saw or heard of Yea they count it a great honour unto them to be thus uncertaine in their opinions as we may see in a rayling and rediculous Pamphlet not only against Mr. Prynne but against the Parliament lately set out by an Independent call'd The falshood of M. William Prynnes Truth Triumphing where pag. 16. Sect. 2. in these words You accuse the Independents saith he as believing most things with a reserve according to their present light with a liberty of changing as new-lights shall be discovered unto them but did ever man so overshoot himselfe saith he certainly this is so high a character of the Independents compleatest posture ensuing or growing stature in the Schoole of Christ as could be applyed unto them wherein they glory not a little and place it as the only ground work and foundation without which they cannot grow in grace from one degree of faith to another untill

but the cursed people followed Christ meaning the poor and Saint Paul saith not many mighty but the poore and mean things hath God chosen and the Protestants of France were usually called the poor men of Lyons and the Puritans were all counted a company of poor fellows now the Independent Ministers they have got all the rich sheep from out of their fellow Pastors folds it seems they are the best Purvey ours for the kingdome of Heaven they have already got abundance of rich Saints in these latter dayes so that when the World groweth poorest the Independent-churches and congregations and their Pastors grow all richest and I am afraid they will make merchandize of a great many more simple Ewes if their Watchmen and Pastors be not the more carefull and vigilant to look to their flocks for they have a singular faculty of plundering and have their Emissaries for that purpose in all the parts of the Kingdome and yet the World is so blinde they cannot discerne into the juglings of these men They blame in the Papists as it is blame-worthy indeed that they not only Lord it over Gods heritage by their own tyrannicall traditions but for that they most sacrilegiously mutilate the Sacrament of the Lords Supper and take away the Cup from the people and they notwithstanding are guilty of both these crimes in a more deep manner then the Papists for they impose in a most Lordly manner their traditions and novelties as Gods own lawes upon the people and not as traditions and they take not away the cup only from the people but take away both the bread and wine from them also and that from the deer servants of God and from such as against whom either for their knowledge or conversation they have no just exception and debar both men and women through beleevers and such as are baptized from the Sacrament and deny baptisme the feal of the Covenant to their Children then the which shew me in the world either a greater and more Lordly tyranny or a more horrid sacriledge And this and many more such insolencies of their Lording it over Gods heritage might be instanced to the dishonour of God and the Gospell and yet the people have not eyes to see it nor hearts to consider what a yoak of slavery they have voluntarily now put themselves under when by the exceeding kindnesse of God towards us and through the wisdome and help of this Parliament we were freed from the unsupportable yoak and tyranny of the Prelates Truely when I read their railing and blasphemous Pamphlets and when I hear their bitter expressions both against the Parliament and Presbytery and all their Christian brethren whom they stile Presbyterians and persecutors of the wayes of God and when I consider their Lording of it over their brethren and their under-hand practises for the upholding of their Faction and their unchristian dealing in all respects I have admired the patience of the great God and the humanity of the people I say I have admired the patience of the great God that hath no more severely punished this Nation for their so great ungratitude towards him for his longanimity and so many deliverances of us both from our Enemies and from our feares and for those unheard of blasphemies both against his Divine Majesty and all authority they dayly utter besides their despising of his Ministers and Ordinances and I have also wondred to see the lenity and curtesie of the people towards these men that although both in their preachings and in their writings they proclaim them all enemies of Jesus Christ and his Kingdome and thrust them all from the holy things and count of them all as a company of Infidels they yet endure all their abuses with moderation neither do I think that the humanity of this Nation towards them can be parallell'd by any other country under heaven who I am most assured would never have suffered half those insolencies they dayly exercise towards them And yet I dare say for all the godly Presbyterians in England whom they count such persecutors there is not one of them that desires a hair of any of their heads should fall to their detriment or that would not be as sorry that any evill should betide any of them as they would be glad and rejoyce to see them return again into the bosome of the Church that they might live in love unity as they ought and formerly they have done and joyn all their prayers and forces unanimously against the common enemies of Christ and his Gospell and so take away the scandall they have already given and heale up all those breaches that by their wantonnesse in opinions have been made to the great dishonour of God And if there were any spark of godly love or any bowels of compassion in our brethren towards their Christian brethren and towards their countrey they would easily be induced now to make up all breaches and lay aside all those novelties that have proved so pernitious already to us all For what is it that any thankfull Christian can desire that God hath not done for us He hath delivered his people in this famous City and in many other parts of the Kingdome from the Antichristian yoake and from all the ceremonies and what soever was really offensive to tender consciences and by his Divine providence has put it into the hearts of the great Counsell to make such Ordinances as by which the Ministers are inabled through the Kingdome to admit of none to the Sacrament but such as for their knowledge and godly life shall be thought sit communicants so that now there is no just cause of separation from our Assemblies seeing all scandals are taken away and the Gospell is preached in such purity as it never was since the Apostles times and that by as godly orthodox painfull and able Ministers as any are in the World Why therefore should our Brethren so slight what God hath done for us and count all that nothing without they may establish a bondage unto themselves more heavie then ever yet lay upon any mans shoulders as surely their Independency will prove For the people of themselves I have that confidence in them such is my opinion of their moderation that when they shall duly and upon deliberation consider the sad effects these Novelists have already brought forth they will relinguish them and give God thanks that the danger of them was so timely discovered and they will againe returne into the bosome of the Church and follow their own Ministers and by whom they shall be built up in their holy faith and continually fed with the sincere milke of the Word and with such wholsome doctrine as tends both to the peace of their own souls and the quiet of Church and state But that they may at last get their feet out of the snare and free themselves from their slavery and bondage I shall desire them but to consider a little the practises