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kingdom_n france_n king_n time_n 6,968 5 3.7554 3 true
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A93884 The second part of the duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Wherein are maintained the Kings, Parliaments, and all civil magistrates authority about the Church. Subordination of ecclesiasticall judicatories. Refuted the independency of particular congregations. Licentiousnesse of wicked conscience, and toleration of all sorts of most detestable schismes, heresies and religions; as, idolatry, paganisme, turcisme, Judaisme, Arrianisme, Brownisme, anabaptisme, &c. which M.S. maintain in their book. With a brief epitome and refutation of all the whole independent-government. Most humbly submitted to the Kings most excellent Majestie. To the most Honorable Houses of Parliament. The most Reverend and learned Divines of the Assembly. And all the Protestant churches in this island and abroad. By Adam Steuart. Octob. 3. 1644. Imprimatur Ja: Cranford.; Duply to M.S. alias Two brethren. Part 2. Steuart, Adam. 1644 (1644) Wing S5491; Thomason E20_7; ESTC R2880 197,557 205

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that_o therefore_o that_o government_n which_o be_v more_o general_o establish_v and_o practise_v in_o the_o world_n shall_v be_v that_o specifical_a government_n whereby_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v govern_v a._n s._n neither_o intend_v i_o to_o infer_v or_o conclude_v any_o such_o thing_n only_o i_o say_v that_o whatever_o the_o assembly_n conclude_v or_o the_o parliament_n establish_v in_o the_o state_n yet_o according_a to_o god_n word_n plurality_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n or_o government_n can_v no_o way_n be_v conclude_v or_o establish_v and_o consequent_o you_o go_v against_o god_n word_n in_o plead_v for_o it_o and_o therefore_o all_o be_v lose_v that_o you_o build_v thereupon_o i_o can_v better_o answer_v your_o compare_v of_o i_o with_o herod_n then_o to_o slight_v it_o with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o overflowing_n of_o your_o call_n one_o good_a argument_n will_v help_v your_o cause_n more_o than_o a_o hundred_o injury_n be_v this_o the_o independent_a power_n of_o 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s._n 1._o your_o argument_n be_v so_o spiritual_a that_o we_o can_v understand_v it_o theologia_n symbolica_fw-la non_fw-la est_fw-la argumentativa_fw-la 2._o we_o say_v it_o be_v no_o violence_n to_o oblige_v all_o to_o be_v subject_a unto_o god_n ordinance_n 3._o and_o to_o deny_v a_o toleration_n to_o they_o that_o be_v contrary_a for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n all_o thief_n shall_v be_v tolerate_v and_o it_o shall_v be_v forbid_v to_o punish_v they_o m._n s._n tell_v we_o pag._n 90._o in_o case_n the_o minor_a part_n in_o that_o nation_n have_v dissent_v from_o the_o major_n about_o the_o sense_n of_o such_o or_o such_o a_o law_n relate_v unto_o practice_n and_o so_o have_v dissent_v in_o this_o practice_n in_o case_n the_o major_a part_n have_v take_v the_o advantage_n of_o their_o brethren_n weakness_n and_o because_o they_o be_v few_o in_o number_n shall_v have_v force_v they_o against_o the_o light_n of_o their_o judgement_n to_o have_v alter_v their_o practice_n or_o if_o they_o refuse_v shall_v have_v tread_v and_o trample_v upon_o they_o it_o shall_v have_v be_v as_o apparent_a a_o breach_n of_o the_o law_n we_o speak_v of_o as_o any_o oppression_n in_o civil_a proceed_n a._n s._n if_o the_o major_a part_n in_o such_o a_o case_n have_v oppress_v the_o minor_a part_n in_o consideration_n of_o their_o weakness_n or_o because_o of_o their_o weakness_n it_o will_v have_v be_v true_a but_o if_o the_o major_a part_n in_o not_o force_v the_o minor_a to_o be_v actor_n in_o any_o thing_n against_o their_o conscience_n have_v hinder_v it_o from_o bring_v in_o of_o a_o new_a religion_n and_o a_o new_a discipline_n against_o that_o which_o be_v ordain_v by_o god_n it_o have_v be_v no_o oppression_n no_o violence_n but_o a_o act_n of_o obedience_n to_o their_o god_n and_o as_o for_o that_o pretext_n of_o the_o tenderness_n of_o conscience_n it_o be_v the_o common_a refuge_n of_o all_o heretic_n and_o schismatic_n of_o the_o world_n your_o pretend_a tenderness_n of_o 〈◊〉_d be_v it_o never_o so_o tender_a ought_v not_o to_o prejudice_v god_n law_n you_o must_v learn_v obedience_n unto_o god_n word_n if_o you_o pretend_v to_o be_v his_o 〈◊〉_d and_o you_o must_v learn_v that_o every_o man_n must_v not_o do_v as_o seem_v good_a in_o his_o own_o eye_n but_o that_o the_o spirit_n of_o prophet_n in_o public_a government_n must_v be_v subject_a unto_o the_o prophet_n otherways_o all_o shall_v go_v in_o confusion_n m._n s._n tell_v we_o again_o that_o to_o conscientious_a man_n civil_a liberty_n without_o liberty_n of_o conscience_n be_v of_o little_a value_n a._n s._n the_o great_a liberty_n that_o conscientious_a man_n can_v desire_v be_v to_o serve_v god_n and_o to_o obey_v his_o ordinance_n and_o what_o be_v beside_o that_o be_v not_o liberty_n but_o licentiousness_n if_o you_o value_v not_o such_o a_o liberty_n you_o be_v not_o worthy_a of_o it_o you_o may_v have_v liberty_n of_o conscience_n howbeit_o you_o establish_v no_o new_a discipline_n in_o the_o kingdom_n m.s._n his_o 3._o answ_n p._n 90._o though_o god_n give_v no_o such_o toleration_n as_o you_o speak_v of_o by_o law_n yet_o he_o do_v actual_o tolerate_v for_o a_o long_a time_n together_o with_o much_o patience_n not_o only_o a_o minor_a but_o a_o major_a part_n of_o the_o jewish_a nation_n in_o a_o manner_n the_o whole_a nation_n forty_o year_n in_o opinion_n note_v rious_o sinful_a act._n 13.18_o so_o than_o you_o must_v tolerate_v your_o brethren_n not_o only_o in_o some_o opinion_n and_o practice_n which_o be_v dialectical_o and_o topical_o evil_a but_o even_o also_o in_o those_o which_o be_v demonstrative_o such_o if_o you_o will_v follow_v the_o practice_n of_o god_n a._n s._n i_o answer_v 1._o to_o the_o antecedent_n that_o god_n tolerate_v not_o the_o israelite_n in_o their_o sin_n absolute_o for_o sundry_a time_n he_o punish_v their_o sin_n and_o that_o very_o grievous_o with_o pestilence_n mortality_n and_o make_v of_o they_o a_o prey_n unto_o their_o enemy_n till_o such_o time_n as_o they_o repent_v and_o turn_v from_o their_o sin_n unto_o he_o and_o then_o he_o turn_v his_o anger_n from_o they_o yea_o core_n dathan_n abiron_n and_o their_o adherent_n for_o their_o schism_n be_v swallow_v up_o quick_a by_o the_o earth_n and_o aaron_n and_o mirian_n strike_v with_o leprosy_n and_o god_n keep_v they_o all_o in_o the_o wilderness_n as_o in_o a_o prison_n for_o the_o space_n of_o forty_o year_n and_o suffer_v none_o of_o they_o to_o enter_v into_o the_o land_n of_o promise_n only_o he_o tolerate_v they_o in_o not_o punish_v they_o by_o eternal_a death_n or_o ex_fw-la condigno_fw-la 2._o neither_o do_v god_n make_v any_o law_n in_o favour_n of_o their_o sin_n to_o tolerate_v it_o as_o the_o independent_o require_v here_o 3._o howbeit_o god_n himself_o tolerate_v much_o in_o they_o yet_o ordain_v he_o not_o that_o churchman_n and_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n shall_v tolerate_v they_o but_o command_v they_o both_o to_o oppose_v every_o one_o according_a to_o their_o vocation_n and_o ordain_v sundry_a punishment_n against_o such_o kind_n of_o sin_n in●●●_n law_n 2._o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n 1._o for_o god_n be_v the_o sovereign_a legislator_n or_o lawgiver_n who_o may_v dispense_v with_o his_o own_o law_n and_o remit_v sin_n commit_v against_o it_o but_o so_o can_v we_o 2._o because_o we_o be_v subject_a to_o the_o law_n and_o must_v obey_v it_o so_o be_v it_o not_o with_o god_n 3._o we_o be_v bind_v by_o a_o particular_a obligation_n and_o duty_n to_o put_v it_o in_o execution_n so_o be_v it_o not_o of_o god_n 4._o by_o the_o same_o reason_n you_o may_v conclude_v as_o well_o that_o we_o must_v pardon_v sin_n give_v our_o child_n to_o death_n for_o other_o man_n sin_n or_o create_v a_o world_n if_o we_o will_v follow_v god_n practice_v 5._o god_n practice_n be_v not_o to_o be_v follow_v by_o man_n but_o in_o that_o which_o be_v conform_v to_o his_o law_n and_o his_o reveal_v word_n for_o christ_n church_n be_v a_o country_n wherein_o his_o people_n live_v not_o by_o custom_n or_o imitation_n of_o practice_n but_o by_o law_n wherefore_o since_o there_o be_v no_o law_n for_o toleration_n of_o heresy_n and_o sin_n they_o must_v not_o be_v tolerate_v 6._o i_o retort_v your_o argument_n for_o since_o god_n punish_v his_o people_n grievous_o in_o those_o forty_o year_n in_o the_o wilderness_n for_o their_o sin_n so_o shall_v man_n now_o be_v punish_v for_o it_o 7._o and_o since_o core_n dathan_n abiron_n and_o their_o adherent_n for_o their_o schism_n and_o complaint_n against_o authoritative_a power_n be_v punish_v by_o death_n so_o shall_v such_o sinner_n now_o a_o day_n be_v so_o punish_v in_o like_a manner_n 8._o and_o since_o the_o israelite_n be_v not_o permit_v to_o enter_v into_o the_o land_n of_o canaan_n which_o be_v a_o type_n of_o the_o christian_a church_n no_o more_o shall_v heretic_n schismatic_n and_o other_o sinner_n have_v liberty_n to_o enter_v into_o the_o christian_a church_n for_o in_o so_o do_v we_o shall_v imitate_v god_n 9_o if_o this_o argument_n hold_v all_o adultery_n poligamy_n drunkenness_n gluttony_n idolatry_n etc._n etc._n must_v be_v tolerate_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n since_o god_n tolerate_v such_o sin_n those_o forty_o year_n in_o his_o people_n when_o they_o be_v in_o the_o wilderness_n i_o be_o exceed_o ashamed_a of_o you_o m._n s._n that_o you_o shall_v be_v so_o absurd_a and_o impious_a as_o to_o plead_v thus_o for_o impiety_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o heresy_n and_o to_o hinder_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n so_o far_o as_o in_o you_o lie_v from_o punish_v sinner_n a._n s._n 6._o reason_n be_v either_o our_o brethren_n do_v assent_v to_o our_o doctrine_n and_o be_v resolve_v likewise_o to_o assent_v to_o the_o discipline_n which_o god_n willing_a shall_v be_v establish_v by_o common_a consent_n or_o do_v not_o if_o they_o grant_v the_o first_o what_o need_v they_o any_o other_o toleration_n than_o the_o rest_n if_o the_o second_o it_o will_v be_v first_o discuss_v wherein_o they_o be_v resolve_v to_o dissent_v and_o afterward_o consider_v whether_o it_o be_v of_o so_o great_a importance_n that_o in_o consideration_n thereof_o they_o dare_v not_o in_o good_a conscience_n entertain_v communion_n with_o we_o m._n s._n answer_v 1_o scarce_o see_v we_o any_o face_n of_o reason_n in_o it_o a._n s._n 1._o and_o yet_o if_o you_o have_v any_o skill_n in_o logic_n you_o may_v see_v a_o disjunctive_a syllogism_n here_o 2._o m._n s._n here_o falsify_v my_o reason_n for_o instead_o of_o these_o word_n the_o discipline_n which_o shall_v etc._n etc._n he_o put_v in_o your_o discipline_n viz._n presbyterial_a authority_n which_o be_v not_o i_o but_o his_o own_o word_n 3._o have_v so_o falsify_v my_o word_n he_o distinguish_v his_o own_o fancy_n or_o word_n