of baptisme chap. 18. the baptizing of Infants And iâ— he did allow it as Mr T. adds it was onely in case of necessity as may appear by his words in his book De Animâ Chap. 39. We Reply to this 1. That both these places of Tertullian are before alleadged translated and discâ—ssed Animadver to be for Infant-baptisme chap. 13. of our Animadvers at the word TERTUL in the Margin which we desire the Reader to peruse over again where you may see that Tertullian hath nothing of allowance of Infant-baptisme onely in case of Necessity but if the places be well weighed he saith that which he saith for Infant-baptisme without any such limitation which Infant-baptisme among other passages is asserted by Tertullian in those words That the children of either Parent-sex sanctified are holy partly by the prerogative of the SEED partly by the RVLE OF DISCIPLINE Which what can it be but Baptisme And in those words Those children are Designati sanctitatis the designedones of holinesse or the marked ones of holinesse It is more like that Mr T. meant that Tertullian restrained Infant-baptisme to necessity lib. de Bapt. cap. 18. But we have abundantly cleered this also afore in the 13. Chap. of our Animadvers at the word TERTUL in the Margin and that not out of our own thoughts onely but out of learned Juâ—ius and Vossius Let the Reader have patience to peruse that we have there said We adde now That the most of Tertullians dispute against hastning baptisme chap. 18. of his book concerning Baptisme is against suddain baptizing men of ripe yeers For his words are Give not Baptisme rashly Give not holy things to dogs he counts not Infants of beleevers such as you heard out of his book De anima and here by and by calls them The INNOCENT age If the Eunuch were suddenly Baptised yet the Spirit commanded Philip to go to his Chariot If Paul were suddenly baptized yes he was soon known to Jude his Host that he was a chosen â—essell So Tertul c. It is true that after Tertullian speaks of Infants but what saith he Quid festinaâ— innocenâ—aâ— aâ— ad remissionem peccatorum Why doth innocent age hasten to forgivenesse of sinnes meaning Baptisme Is this a good reason a Scripture ground to defer the Baptisme of Infants He saith himselfe in his said book and 8 chap. De animâ That children are not holy till they be counted so in Christ And how in Christ When they be by means of one of the holy Parents under the promise of being a holy seed and by the rule of Discipline which for children while such was onely Baptisme And whereas Mr T. brings in learned Grotius as countenancing him in relying upon Tertullian against Infant-Baptisme we have largely and plainly layd open after in our Animadversions in this Chap. upon the sixth Section of Mr T. his EXAMEN see the margin there 1. That Grotius rejects Tertullians opinion as nothing swaying him against Infant-Baptisme 2. That Grotius by many Arguments is for Infant-Baptism 3. We now adde that it is true Grotius doth say Tertullianus de aetate quâ baptizandi essent qui Christianae disciplinae a parentibus consâ—crabantur nihil definitum fuisse suis temporibus hoc ipso docet c. That Tertullian sheweth that in his time The set time of Baptizing them that were CONSECRATED BY THEIR PARENTS to Christian Discipline was not determined But what is this to prove that in those times beleevers children must not be baptized till they are out of their Parents guardianship and of ripe years 2. Mr T. Objects against Cyprian EXAMEN Sect. 7. that indeed he handles Infant-Baptisme at large in his 59 Epistle ad Fidum and saith in that Epistle enough for it and more then enough unlesse he had spoken to better purpose The truth is the very reading of the Epistle upon which Hierom and especially Augustine rely for the proving of Infant-baptisme is sufficient to discover how great darknesse there was then upon the Spirits of those that were counted the greatest Lights in the Church You say * upon this occasion Fidus denyed not the baptisme of Infants Mr T. speaks to Mr M. but denyed that they ought to be Baptized before the eighth day But you might have observed that Fidus alleadged That the Law of ancient circumcision was to be considered And That the footstep of an Infant being in the first dayes of birth is not clean Whence it plainly appears that there was a relique of Judaisme in him and that he did not well understand the abrogation of the Ceremoniall Law And the truth is the contentions about Easter neer that age do plainly shew that Judaisme was not quite weeded out of the minds of the chief teachers among Christians Thus Mr T. We answer 1 That however Mr T. despiseth here Cyprians testimony Animadver yet the renownedst pious learned esteemed it as Cyrill or John of Hierusalem Gregory Nazianzen Chrysostome Ambrose Hierom Augustine The places where in their works we quoted a little afore in the margin over against the end of the testimony of Cyprian Nor do ancienter writers onely esteeme it on whose spirits Mr T. saith there was such darkenesse and on whose spirit is there not some at this time of great light but also later learned pious writers even Mr T. his beloved Vossius Grotius so oft quoted by him Vossius saith Vossius Thes Theolog. Hist de paedo bapt Thes 9. Grotius in Mat. 19.14 that this testimony of Cyprian is above or beyond all exceptions Grotius saith That the Epistle of Cyprian to Fidus makes the matter plain that there was then no doubt of baptizing Infants c. 2 When Mr T. urgeth the fathers in the least as one place out of one Origen or c. in a point of great doubt we must entertain it by Mr T. his intendment but when we urge many places out of many then saith he they are this and that 3 Better men then these fathers may have some darknesse John Baptist was greater then the prophets and he that is least in the Kingdome of the Church now is greater than he 4 Many men may in these dayes hold a solid truth yet not upon the best grounds of it for want of knowledge of them 5 That Fidus thus far expresly held the ceremoniall law to be abrogated that Baptisme was come in the room of Circumcision and might be administred at least as soon as Circumcision was to children Act. 21.20 Gal. 2. 6 We know that many Christian Jewes in the time of the Apostles and Peter himself did too much Judaize shall not we therefore receive that true light that was in them 7 For that of Ester wee know the controversie too farr and too long about that time invaded Christian England shall not we therefore be regarded in any truth Mr Fox book of Martyrs Yea did not the observation of Ester reach down to Mr
inconveniencies which we stay not now to name But it this kinde of Argument Exercitat P. 6. out of Coloss 2.11 be restrainedly taken saith Mr. T. no more follows thence but that Baptisme and circumcision in some things signifie the same which is more plainly said of Noahs flood 1 Pet. 3.21 Of the red sea and the cloud that guided 1 Cor. 10.2 And yet we say not that Baptisme succeeded into their place much lesse do we infer to be instituted in their place If Mr. T. restraines Cor. 2.11 whether he pleaseth Animadver then must it signifie but what he listeth But you have already seen the dimensions of that place to be larger then Mr. T. his measure As for his WE say not that Baptisme succeeded I suppose he meanes Protestant Orthodox Writers and then he mistakes if I mistake not For Calvin saith that Noah being â—aved by water had quandam Baptismi speciem a certain Image or representation of Baptisme and this the Apostle minds us of to the intent that the likenesse between him and us might be the more apparent so he Beza saith much more of which onely this There are two types of the Churches sanctification and rising up out of the depth of sinne and death but the deliverance from the flood was the precedent Type shaddowing forth the following Type of Baptisme answering to it in which respect Baptisme may be set over against the cloud and the passing through the red Sea as the Anti-type to them So Beza Dispach bid us quote no more And the text will supply all and clear it to me that Baptisme doth come by divine right in the place of the Arke For Peter calls Baptisme the * 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. Anti-type to the Arke that signing salvation as this doth Now who doth not know that the Anti-type comes by divine authority in the place of the Type And for that of the 1 Cor. 10.2 let another speak and not my mouth Mr Diodat in his notes saith The meaning of that place is That as the deliverance out of Aegypt was a figure of the redemption by Christ and the pilgrimage thorow the wildernesse an image of the elects life in the world and the land of Canaan a shaddow of the kingdome of heaven So the passing thorrow thered sea was correspondent to Baptisme and Manna and the water comming out of the rock a signe which had some resemblance to the Lords supper So Mr Diodat And he had said true and if he had said more for the text would have bornâ— him out For the Apostle being about to warne the Corinthians of sinning in idolatry c. like the Israelites Pareus lest they perish as the Israelites v. 5 6 7 8 9 10. He prevents in the 2. and 3. verse an objection the Corinthians might make that wee have better sacraments to keep us from sin then the Israelites had I would not saith the Apostle have you ignorant not reason so ignorantly but know that your fathers the Israelites went to heaven as many as went the same way and by the like meanes as you the children must go if you go they had like sacraments in the signe Pareus and the same thing signified as you have They had their passing under the cloud and through the red sea for their Baptisme and Manna and water out of the rocke for their holy supper both signifying Christ instead whereof you you have the washing of water for your Baptisme and bread and wine for your holy supper to represent Christ Now seeing the holy ghost did by expresse exposition of the Apostle intend those two to fore shaddow Baptisme and the Lords Supper and tells the Corinthians they had these two Baptisme and Holy Supper instead of them as of no more priviledge in the outward signe how can I but conclude that Baptism and holy Supper comes by divine authority in the place of them Mr. T. reckons up many inconveniences that will spring from deductions of arguments from analogies Exercitat §. 2. without the Lords precepts and the Apostles examples as the maintenance of Tithes jure divino the asserting of Jewish Sacraments to be types of christian Sacraments the setting up of a Pope instead of the Jewes High-priest the giving of the Lords Supper to children because they ate the passover c. We plead for no analogicall arguments Animadver but such as are countenanced by New Testament scripture And if the Scriptures express any Iewish Sacrament to be any how or in any degree types of the christian Sacraments we must say so what ever men say against Bellarmine to unty him and fasten themselves We heard afore what Calvin Beza Diodat and Pareus said on those texts of Scripture whatever some others to make a shift may assert universally against Bellarmine out of a supposed inconvenience in some particular And Mr Tombes himselfe alleadged Cameron that Circumcision primarily sealed to the seed of Abraham the earthly promise namely Canaan secondarily sanctification And is not this to make one type to signifie another type for Canaan was a type of Heaven Heb. 4. And as we dare extend analogies as far as the text of Scripture bears us out so we dare not stretch them beyond where the Apostle puts a bar And therefore we cannot argue from the childrens eating of the Passeover to their partaking of the Communion because the Apostles marke of a Communicant is to be able to examine himself before he eates 1 Cor. 11. Lastly Exercitat it is to be considered how by these Argumentations consciences may be freed from the danger of will-worship and polluting so remarkable an Ordinance of Christ as Baptisme is specially this care lyes on them who by Prayers Sermons Writings Covenants and Oaths do deter Christians from humane inventions in Gods worship diligently and as is to be hoped sincerely We retort Animadver Let it be likewise considered how we may be likewise freed from will worship in confining Sacramentall administrations to such time age circumstances which Christ never enjoyned and so count the seed of beleevers all wholly polluted whom he never so accounted CHAP. IIII. Exercitat §. 3. The third Argument from the parity of grace in the New Testament to that in the old examined THe third Argument is thus framed If Baptisme be not granted to the Infants of Beleevers then the Grace of God will be more restrained in the New Testament than in the Old but this is not to be affirmed therefore Baptisme is to be granted to Infants of Beleevers Answ 1. If this Argument be of any weight it will prove that the grace of God is straitned because we give not the Lords Supper to children to whom the Passeover was given as appears by that which was said before 2. The grace of God is not tyed to Sacraments neither do Sacraments give grace by the work done and therefore grace is not restrained though Sacraments be
of God for he excepts none nor Infant nor c. * So Basil long afore Ann. 372. In his exhortat to Baptisme To Ambrose Mr. T. answers nothing in his EXAMEN but onely takes notice that Mr. M. quoted him But makes no exception against him All these Ancients that we have translated were before the rise of Pelagianisme a Pelagius was about An. 104 Helvic or 413. El. Reusner whose abettors were for the generall great sticklers against the baptisme of Infants And before them the Arrians opposed the same b Arius was about the yeer 315. Helvic or 319 El Reusner Bucholc Of these see somewhat before in our Animadversions on Mr. T. his 2 Argument in his 15. Sect. Next let us touch those Ancients who after the rise of Anabaptisticall-Pelagianisme or Peleganian-Anabaptisme wrote for Infant-baptisme none of them urging it as onely the custome of the Churches others of them arguing it from the Scriptures and therefore took it not up as an unwritten tradition Chrysostome who flourished about the yeer after Christ CHRYSOSTOME 382. as Helvicus reckons was Bishop of Constantinople about 389. as El. Reusner computes upon those words 1 Tim. 3. Not a Novice that is a new tender plant saith the Apostle means not one so in regard of age for many such of the Gentiles or Nations came to the Church and were baptized There are other passages in Chrysostome but I promised but to touch these last Authors Hierom who flourished about the yeer after Christ HIERONIMVS 384. so Helvicus about the yeer 392. wrote his Catalogue of famous writers so Bucholcerus saith thus of Infant-baptisme in his Epistle to Lata The good or evil of a childe is much to be imputed to the parents meaning education unlesse saith he thou thinkest that the children of Christians in case they have not received baptisme are onely guilty of that sin and that the sin is not to be layed upon them that would not give it them especially at that time when they that were to receive it were not able to oppose As on the other side the salvation of Infants is the gain of the parents or ancestors So likewise Hierom in his third book of Dialogues against the Pelagians Thus. CRITO Tell me I pray thee and so deliver me from all questioning why Infants may be baptized ATTIC That their sins may be done away in baptisme CRITO What sin have they committed Is any man loosed that is not first bound ATTIC Doest ask me The Evangelicall Trumpet c. shall answer thee Rom. 5. Death reigned from Adam to Moses even upon them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams transgression c. He that is a little one is loosed in baptisme from the bond of sin of the parent c. And lest thou shouldest think that I mean this in an hereticall sence the blessed Martyr Cyprian in his Epistle he wrote to Bishop Fidus concerning baptizing Infants minds us of these things And there Hierom transcribes a great part of that Epistle of which you heard afore And then addes Eloquent Augustine saith Hierom wrote long since to Marcellinus c. two books of baptizing Infants against your that is the Pelagian heresie by which you will assert that * NOTE how the Pelagians opposed Infant-Baptisme Infants are baptized not into remission of sins but into the kingdom of God according to that Joh. 3.5 Except a man be born again of water and the Spirit be cannot enter into the Kingdom of God He wrote also the third to the same Marcellinus against those who say as you Pelagians do that it is possible for a man to be void of sin without the grace of God He wrote also a fourth to Hilarius against thy doctrine Pelagius Also he is said to have written other books in speciall to thee by name which are not come to our hands c. I will onely say this that I may end my speech That either thou Pelagius must make a new form that after ye have baptized them into the Name of Father Son and holy Ghost ye baptize them into the kingdom of God or if you have one and the same baptisme in little ones and men then Infants must be baptized into remission of sins c. Thus Hierom. To all this of Hierom in this last quotation Mr. T. answers in his EXAMEN that the same answer will serve as to Augustine Well therefore let us come to Augustine Augustine flourished about 391 after Christ AVGVST Helvic and hath abundance concerning Infant-baptisme in his 28. Epistle in his book of originall sin Chap. 40. In his second book of Marriage and Concupiscence Chap. 20. In his third book of sin merit and remission Chap. 7 8 9. In his second book against Jul. ca. 3. In his fourth book of Baptisme against the Donatists Chap. 24 * So hath THEODORET epit divin dogmat ca. de Baptismo He flourished about the yeer 422. And so GENNADIVS de Ecclesiast dogmat c. 31. He flourish about the yeer 458. In his fourth book against the two Epistles of Pelag. Chap. 8. It were a tedious businesse to translate all these places for me that intended more brevitie having too much other businesse and too little time for this work and for many Readers which delight no more in reading these then I in quoting of them but that Mr. T. leads me to them therefore and because I shall translate somewhat of Augustine by and by I will onely note particularly of Augustine these two things First that Augustine in that place of his 7 8 9. Chapters of his third book of sin merit and remission quotes almost all Cyprians Epistle to Fidus. Secondly that Augustine doth not build his judgement onely upon Cyprian because in his fourth book of baptisme against the Donatists he proves Infant-baptisme by many Arguments from the Scriptures Now all these especially the last we onely touch that we may not toyl our selves and the Reader There are of the Anabaptists that can tell whether those Authors be not for us or no. We shall onely adde some observations upon them and so passe on 1. That these five last Authors Chrysost Hierom August Theod. Genn wrote for Infant-baptisme after the rise of Pelagianisme * See also Voss Thes Theol. hist Though some of the men were afore it yet those things afore quoted were written after it 2. That they wrote those things at least 300 yeers afore Mr. T. his Walafridus was a Writer to tell us that tale against Infant-baptisme of which you heard afore we gave our Answer to it 3. That these did argue out of Scripture and no otherwise determine the question that Infants ought to be baptized then as the pious learned Ancients had held in former ages long before * See before in the notes in the margin on Cyprinan Augustine shall here for brevities sake speak for them all who being one
truth be still the same Yea different complexions and conditions of Countries in receiving or opposing a truth may make it to be more or lesse practised and yet the minds of true Christians in both may be alike one with the rule Yea if the more frequency of Infant Baptisme were never so ancient in Africa according to the Councils there whereof that in Cyprians time was one * Cyprian was within 148 yeers after the Apostles yet we know that it came first from Asia ** This Asia the greaâ— consisted of Anatolia Syâ—ia Palestina Armenia Arabia Media Assyria Mesopotamia Persia Chaldea Parthia Hircania Tartaria China India the Islands of the Indian and Mediterranean seas where man was created Christ born wrought mirocles suffered All the pen-men of both Testaments acted were the Monarchies and captivities over the Church Great Asia included Asia the lesse since called Anatolia * This Anatolia or Asia the lesse comprehendeth Cilicia Pamphylia Lycia Bythinia Pontus Paphlagonia Galatia Cappadociae Lycaonia Pissdia Armenia the lisse and Asia propria that is the Estern Country where were the seven Churches Revel 1. this included Asia Propria ** Which comprehends Caria Jonia Lydiaa Aeulis and both the phyrigiae's of which at least is meant that Act. 19.10 and 27. All Asia heard the Word of the Lord Jesus And certaine which were the chief of Asia sent unto Paul Sutably we quoted Justin Martyr for one of our witnesses since the Apostles time of Infant Baptisme He was a Samaritan which is part of Palestine in Asia the Great Genere Samaritanus atque è Samaritanis ad Christi fidem transiit Epiphan Some of Samaria were converted by Christ John 4. v. 5. v. 29. v. 30. v. 39. After in the Apostles time the Word was preached to many Villages of the Samaritans Act. 8.25 Justin Martyr was converted to the faith about 28 yeares after the Apostles To that of not baptizing children in Africa but in danger of death or c. we have shewd the contrary out of severall antiquities particularly out of Cyprian whither we refer the reader And sure enough from the life of Augustin of which anon after it is cleer that Augustines sicknes whiles young was some occasion of deferring his baptism for that time For he saith in his first book of Confessions and c. 11. That having been sick they deferred their thoughts of baptizing him that they might the more freely give him his will to do what he would for the furtherance of his recovery which they might not allow him if once he were under the bonds of Baptisme Those words Mr T. addes Children were baptized for the health of body or such like reason seem to clash against that he so often presseth in his book that Augustine and the Ancients did too much put salvation and the taking away Originall sinne in Baptisme which presently Mr T. repeaâ—es within 25 lines following You may conceive saith Mr T. how light Augustines judgement was by considering the ground upon which Augustine held and urged the baptisme of Infants so vehemently which was saith Mr T. as all know that read his works the opinion he had that without baptisme Infants must be damned by reason of Originall sin which is not taken away but by baptisme and for this quotes severall places out of Augustine T. 7. de Nat. Gra. c. 8. T. 2. Ep. 28. For the distinction of the Chatechised and the Baptized and that the use of catechising afore baptisme still continued and a great while after he means Augustines time All this doth not overthrow the common tenet and practise of that antiquity and upward as well as downward in baptizing Christians children The chatechising being for the children of those whose parents were not supposed Christians as before we abundantly shewed out of Tertullian and Iunius upon him and out of Pareus Calvin Bullinger Marlorat c. on Heb. 6.2 And this is practised in all Protestant Kingdomes to this day notwithstanding the constancy of baptizing Infants If there be not used a right judgement to determine who are Christian-parents that is the fault of men not of the Ordinance or its institution If I should go about to answer that quotation of Augustine with others out of Augustine I might abound with his sentences for Infant Baptisme As his collation of Baptisme and Circumcision in many places of his works His Collation of baptisme with the Flood the Cloud and Red Sea divers times His sayings That Baptisme is not to be deferred That repentance is not absolutely universally necessary before baptism His severall tracts of the Baptism of little ones c. Which we need not quote to them that are acquainted with Augustine All which shew in what sence Augustine spake of catechising before baptisme viz. of those whose Parents were not Christians If with Nazianzen he had held that little children of three years old being Chatechised to answer that they understood not might be baptized what is that more to the purpose then to baptize them whiles Infants We must understand that in most of the Fathers times there were no whole Kingdomes or for the most part converted or Religious worship set up by allowance of the state but the generall of them were heathens Therefore of necessity there must have been some catechising afore the baptizing of some And for baptizing Infants for bodily health c. named but not quoted out of Augustine as his opinion we can answer it out of Augustine who saith T. 7. Col. 84. c. Edit Basil Ibid. Col. 55. That Baptisme doth not profit all That Baptisme profits not without charity That one baptisme by faith purgeth And that the Vertue of Baptisme is not in the water but in the word which we forbear to quote and translate at large as having too much if it might have been prevented troubled the readâ—r with quotations already They are obvious to him that reads Augustine But Mr T. EXAMEN §. 8. objects that catechizing afore baptisme continued in Augustines time and after a great while in Asia because Peter Cluniacensis saith that there had been none but Infants baptized in all Europe for 300 or 500 years afore his time but doth not deny the baptisme of men of ripe years in Asia We answer First touching Cluniacensis we have said abundance afore Secondly Animadver that this Argument doth no more determine any thing about Asia then about Affrica which is Mr T. his Qu. in hand And for Affrica we have heard abundantly out of all sorts of antiquity of the baptizing of Infants Thirdly Cluniacensis professeth himself a Latin ignorant of Greek and other tongues and therefore doth not determine here any thing concerning places out of Europe but is silent concerning them Fourthly Touching baptisme of Infants in Asia we heard afore To that Mr T. objects Augustine and Ambrose his judgement for Infant-baptisme as putting too much in the ordinance as conducing to salvation
most ordinances as to Preaching Praying Sacraments Fasting Thanksgivings yet we leaving the error doubt not of the Institutions and Administrations of those ordinances according thereunto 5. Mr T. thinks that Adult-baptisme might be severed from to use his own words * Exercitat §. 17. p. 29. l. 13. The pernicious errors and madd furies of FORMER Anabaptists Therefore might infant baptisme be severed from some errors that have accompanied it 6. If the errors accompanying Infant-baptisme have made it doubtfull to Mr T. So have the pernicious errors and madd furies of the Anabaptists in former ages which Mr T. hath confest made their baptisme doubtfull to us Mr T. adds in his 17. Exercitat §. 17. Sect of his Exercitation towards the close of his 5. argument That of old 1. Other inventions of men under the name of Apostolicall Tradition Caused or attended Infant-Baptisme rather then any solid argument froÌ„ Scripture 2. A wrong likeing of Judaisme Caused or attended Infant-Baptisme rather then any solid argument froÌ„ Scripture 3. The using of it as a main Argument against the Pelagian Heresie Caused or attended Infant-Baptisme rather then any solid argument froÌ„ Scripture 4. The meer authority of the Councills under Cyprian the Councill of Milevis Augustine and Jerome Caused or attended Infant-Baptisme rather then any solid argument froÌ„ Scripture To the 1. We shall answer in Mr T. his next Argument in number the 6. which is touching humane inventions 2. We have answered already indiscussing of the aforesayd antiquities 3. We say now that we have produced sufficient proof afore out of approved antiquity that the Tenet and practise of Infant baptisme was common in the Churches since the Apostles times hundreds of years before Pelagianisme was known in the world See before all our 13. Chap. and Chap. 14. from the beginning thereof to the end of the quotation of Ambrose p. 148. 4. We have answered afore chap. 14. Lastly Mr T. addes these words as the close of his fifth Argument and Section of his Exercit. Exercita◠§. 17. So in this last age saith he some moderne men seeme to imbrace this tenet of Infant baptisme out of horror of minde least they should goe headlong into the PERNICIOVS ERRORS of former Anabaptists and their MADD FVRIES or 2 least they should seem to desert the leading men of the Reformed Churches or 3 move troubles in the Churches rather then from perspicuous foundation in the Scriptures Which they will think that I have not said as one that dreames who shall reade what Robert Lord Brooke hath in the end of his Treatise concerning Episcopacie Daniel Rogers in his treatise of Baptisme and others else-where We answer to the 1 particular thus That the modern men cannot be justly abhorred Animadver for their horror of mind least they should by any Tenet fall headlong into pernicious errors and madd furies And if Mr T. doth but approve his owne seventh Argument for a right rule viz. That which hath occasioned many errors that is deservedly doubtfull whether it be right c. then it will follow uncontradicted by Mr T. That as he doubts of Infant Baptisme because of errors that have followed it so we doubt of adult baptisme according to the Tenet and Practise of the Anabaptists because of the pernicious errors and madd furies that have followed it * We shall give instances anon in the due place in answer to Mr. T. his 6 7.8.9 Argument in our 13. chap. To the second particular we answer thus That it is not so convenient suddenly to desert the leading men of reformation then in their debates before they have declared themselves and we meane while not ingaged necessarily to practise against our consciences and in such points as will no wayes stand in the line of any concord so much as negatively The Church way or Independency as they nick name it differs from the intended Presbytery as we guesse â—nâ—ainly in point of Appeale especially in the manner of it which may breed no distraction in case particular Churches walke so wisely as not to neede appeales as some discreet parishes did in the worset times of Episcopall Courts Rests in a song whereby to sing onely when the concords will beare it and rest where not till they Symphonise againe doe not marre but grace the harmonie But whether Anabaptisme or Catapaedobaptisme denying Baptisme to believers infants wherein the great part of a sad distracted kingdome is interested will for the present so well fagge I leave to Mr T. to make out which if he can it shall not be a sorrow to me We are unwilling indeed to admit those beleivers to the Communion of the Lords Supper that will not some how intimate to us that they yeelde to a relation of Pastor and Flocke betweene them and that Minister of whom they require that Ordinance and to walke with us submissively to all the Ordinances of Christ till God provide better for them that we may know how they live as well as when they receive and be willing also to receive Christian admonition where they live amisse But for baptizing of beleivers Infants severall Churches of us doe hold that we may Baptize them though neither of those Parents be of our particular Churches Baptisme as we Conceive being but an admission into the universall visible Church As those Baptized Matthew the 3. The Centurion Act. 10. The Goaler Act. 16 were Baptized neither in a particular Christian Church nor into such a particular Church To the third particular we answer That it cannot but be a considerable thing to godly and wise men how they move troubles in the Church And therefore in capiâ—ulating as I may say with point of Argument for reformation they thinke it not seasonable to indeavoure for the inward Hold till they can take the out-workes Reformation from Adams fall to the highest pitch in the old Testament came on by degrees so from Iohn Baptists time to the ende of the Apostles in the New Testament And so in every Kingdome since from the first sitting downe of Religion there to its grouth or from the Lapse thereof to its Restitution We cannot come to the ende but by meanes And it cannot but be dangerous in an unwildy Kingdome to jumpe from the lesser to the greatest things of that we count Reformation at one leape For my part I should desire rather to suspend mine owne interest then to be a coâ—djutor to further a generall dangerous distraction For that clause that infant-baptisme hath been held rather upon the said three particulars then upon any Perspicuous ground of Scripture we anser we have held it upon sufficient grounds of Scripture if our Animadversions may be counted worthy to be one witnesse But if Mr T. meane by Perspicuous any thing more then sufficient we answer we conceive we have as Perspicuous Scriptures for Infant-baptisme as Mr T. hath for The Lords day and for womens partaking of the Lords Supper To Master