that they must seeke the Pope for receiuing the Imperiall crowne whereforuer he shall be and follow him if he chance to remoue with diuers like tokens and testimonies of deâ—ection of the Maiesty of that State and subiection thereof to the Sea of Rome For further declaration whereof during the life of the Emperour the Popes challenge to be his Iudge and the Emperiall feate being void they claime the exercise of Imperiall power and haue giuen inuestitures and receiued fealtie of those who held of the Empire as of Iohn and Luchiâ— Vicounts of Milane For which cause the Canonists also who set vp these strings to the highest strame doe maintaine opinion that the Emperour cannot resigne his Imperiall dignitie to any other then the Pope and that it is a streine of heresie not to beleeue that the Emperor is subiect to the Pope and that the Emperour is but the Popes Minister to vse his sword only at his becke Lastlie Pope Clement the fifth expressely declared by decree that the oath which the Emperour maketh to the Pope is no other then an oath of fealtie Neither hath it been against the Empire only that the Popes haue had this power to preuaile but against diuers other Christian countries in so much as they haue claimed to hold either as feudataries or as trubutaties to their Sea the kingdomes of Naples Sicilie Hierusalem Sardinia Corsica Arragon Portugale Nauarre Ireland England Scotland Poland Hungarie to which Cuiacius adioyneth the kingdome of France which Pope Boniface the eight declared to be deuolued to the Church for the contempt and disobedience of King Philip the faire And Pope Alexander the sixt in diuiding the late discouered parts of the world betweene the Kings of Castile and Portugale expressely reserued to his Sea the Iurisdiction and soueraignety of them by consent of both Kings who from that time became his vassals of all the purchases and conquests which before they had atchieued or intended to enterprise in times to ensue Generally they do challenge temporall soueraigntie in all countries habitually at the least which at pleasure they may produce into act whereby the subiects of any State may haue recourse vnto them to some complaint or suite against their Prince to be relieued or protected by them and to receiue priuiledges and immunities at their hands Whereby also they may iudge the actions of Princes and vpon such cause as they shal thinke meet punish excommunicate de priue them denounce publike warre against them free their subiects from subiection vnto them As Pope Pius the first not only absolued the subiects of England from their alleagance to the late Queene Elizabeth but commanded them also to turnâ— traytours and take armes against her After which Bull few yeeres passed without some notable attempt either against her person or against the State It would be very redious to giue but a light touch to all the desperate distresses that hereupon haue bin occasioned in diuers foraine countries which out of their Annal may be furnished with ease And the sequell now sheweth that the chiefe encrease and establishment of the Turkish Empire hath proceeded from the outragious warres which by this meanes haue been occasioned among the Christians which made Europe on all sides to bath her limmes in the blood of her children Against our owne State we cannot be ignorant what heretofore hath bin acted especially vnder the raigne of King Iohn What hath been lately what freshly what is daily attempted it cannot possiblie escape the memorie of those that liue in this present age and for helpe of those who are to succeed report there of shall be made at large in a historie Intended for the times lately passed and now presently running The accumulating of these examples in this place would be a matter of some labour for cleering that which hath litle doubt Thus much in substance but somwhat more briefly deliuered it seemed that there was not any man in that presence who either in replie or in supplie had not somewhat to say That only was a hinderaÌ„ce to the discharging of their minds which is pleasantly said to haue dissolued the Parliament of women because they could not agree to speake one at once Many shewed themselues so impatient of silence and they who vpon aduisement could haue said least were vpon the suddaine most franke and forward in words At the last that which was the cause that no man could haue free libertie of speech did driue them all into a dumbe dumpe which opportunity was forthwith apprehended by a thick Theologian whose formall attire countenance and cariage was a good supplie to other defects And so hauing composed himselfe to al complements of grauitie and grace he began his speech after the set and solemne manner of those disputers who contenting themselues with commendation of memorie doe more diligently endeuour to repeate then to reply You haue declared vnto vs said he that the proper qualities of the rights of Maiestie are to be both perpetuall and also absolute as neither depending vpon any other nor yet held either vpon charge or with exception and restraint That these rights coÌ„sist in managing affaires of highest nature which cannot be separated from the soueraigne power because vpon the guiding of them all the fortunes of a State do follow That nothing is of so high nature in a State as is religion and that therefore the ordering thereof is annexed as a right of Maiestie to the soueraigne power whether it be setled in a King or in the Nobilitie or in the peopleâ— For seeing religion commandeth the conscience and holdeth the soule in subiection if supremacâ—â— therin be acknowledged to be in a forren Prince the sinewes of domesticall soueraigntie are cut in sâ—nder You haue brought certaine examples of dangerous consequence when either strangers or subiects haue bin followed for religion You shewed yâ— for auoiding the like dangers two policies were anciently obserued one consisted in excluding external ceremonies rites the other in setling the gouernment for matters in religion in the supreame power and authority in the State That this last was practised among the Iewes Aegyptians in diuers other countries In the foure great Monarchies also of Assyria of Persia of Graecia and of Rome Of Rome you say first vnder the gouernment of Kings secondly in the popular state thirdly vnder Heathen Emperours and lastly for a good space vnder Christian Emperors who in matters of circumstance and of external forme in religion both vsed and were acknowledged to haue supreame authoritie of whose lawes diuers were afterwards either assumed by Popes or attributed vnto them Concerning matters of substance and of internall forme they assembled generall Councels wherein they held the Primacie and confirmed the acts of them by Imperiall decree You declared also that when Constantinople was aduanced to be the head of the Empire a stiffe strife did arise
A REPORTE OF A DISCOVRSE CONCERNING SVpreme power in affaires of Religion Manifesting That this power is a right of Regalitie inseparably annexed to the Soueraigntie of euery State and that it is a thing both extreamely dangerous and contrarie to the vse of all auncient Empires and Commonwealths to acknowledge the same in a forraine Prince 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 AT LONDON Imprinted by F. K. for Iohn Hardie and are to be sold by Iohn Flasket dwelling at the signe of the blacke Beare in Paules Church yeard 1606. THE SVMMARIE 1 THe occasion of this discourse 2 The proposition That supreme power in Ecclesiasticall affaires is a right of Soueraigntie 3 Soueraigne or maiesticall power must be perpetuall 4 Soueraigne power must also be absolute 5 Affaires of greatest importance are annexed to the Soueraigne Maiestie 6 Nothing in a State of so great importance as is Religion 7 Affaires of Religion are to be managed by those who beare the Soueraigntie 8 It is dangerous for others to be depended vpon in regard of Religion 9 Two policies aunciently obserued for auoyding these dangers To exclude externall ceremonies and to commit the ordering of matters in Religion to the Soueraigne authoritie within the State 10 Instance of the first 11 The second practised by the Iewes 12 By the Aegyptians 13 By diuers other people 14 In the Empire of Assyria 15 In the Empire of Persia. 16 In the Empire and principall States of Greece 17 In the Empire of Rome vnder the gouernement of Kings 18 In the popular State of the Romane Empire 19 In the Romane Empire vnder heathen Emperours 20 In the Romane Empire vnder the first Christian Emperours 21 Matters of Externall or accidentall forme in the Church depended altogether vpon the first Christian Emperours 22 Many lawes of the first Christian Emperours attributed vnto Popes 23 Matters of Faith or of Essentiall forme ordered by direction and authoritie of the first Christian Emperours 24 The eight generall Councels called and confirmed by Emperours 25 A strife betweene the Bishops of Rome and Constantinople whether should be greatest 26 Diuers Emperours fauoured the Bishops of Constantinople 27 By giuing this prerogatiue to the Bishops of Rome the East Empire was dismembred 28 The absolute power of the Bishops of Rome in Ecclesiasticall affaires reduced the West Empire not only to a feeble state but to be held in Vassalage to the Sea of Rome 29 By the same power the Bishops of Rome claimed Soueraignty also ouer diuers principall kingdomes in Europe and generally ouer all States in the world 30 Diuers distresses by this meanes occasioned 31 The Conclusion 32 Certaine questions propounded TO HIS HONORABLE FRIEND SIR I. P. Knight SIr holding my selfe beholding vnto you for many kind courtesies I cannot but oftentimes bend and busie my deuise to thinke how in some sort to thanke you for the same and if not fully to discharge yet freely to acknowledge and professe my debt to satisfie I say in desire when in deed I am not able But howsoeuer in other performances I shall be weake yet I will not faile to leaue a large memorie of your true habit of honestie and vertue and in the meane season not omit to visit you with such exercises of penne as the streightnes of other occasions shall permit me leisure to contriue For this present I haue made choyce to present vnto you a small enlargement of certaine passages of speech lately raised at the table of N. which being much frequented by persons of most principall note hath commonly the great varietie of dishes answered with like varietie of discourse The first part of the dinner was passed ouer in a sad and sober silence our tongues seeming to giue place to the office of our teeth and euery man commending the goodnesse of our fare by close feeding vpon the same At the last silence was broken and some speeches spent in matters of conceit In which veine one of the companie tooke often occasion to speake of a Terrible blow alluding to the same words in that letter whereby the late practise against his Maiestie and the whole body of the State was beaten out and brought into light Hereupon N. did breake forth into a liberall commendation of the Lord Mounteagle to whom the letter was directed affirming that hee was a personage of true honour and merit for that by his felicitie and faith not onely the liues of many thousand particular persons and whatsoeuer else was deerest vnto them but the life also of this Empire was at that time preserued that his high Nobilitie enobled and made pretious both with curtesie and magnanimitie had now iustly placed him in the formost ranke of same He proceeded to declare the fashion of that hot and hatefull attempt what faire opportunitie was thereby opened to secure our selues from the fierie furie of those homebred enemies who rather than wee should not bee destroyed would ouerwhelme vs in the ruines of the state That seueritie could not hereupon be interpreted crueltie that hereupon nothing could be interpreted to be done in regard of religion but onely for the necessarie defence of our safetie This speech was diuersly taken according as affections were diuersely disposed some did liuelie some faintly and as it was coniectured fainedly approue it none did openly oppose against it From this they fell to talke of the Bill propounded in Parliament against Recusants and of the Oath of supremacie which was appointed generally to be taken Of the first they did but sparingly speake as being a matter then handled in highest place of deliberation vpon the second they maintained a longer stay N. repeated many conueniences for which this Oath ought generally to bee taken Whereto a certaine Knight replied not directly contradicting him but inuoluing his intents in such soft and nice distinctions that hee seemed rather to declare that he would not haue the Oath imposed at all then in what fashion he would haue it imposed These obscure speeches hauing bred some incertaintie whilest euery man rather coniectured then assured what should be ment and controuersies of conuâ—niencie being not alwaies easie to bee determined by way of discourse because all men are apt to attribute much to their owne conceits I drew the question to a higher degree Affirming that it seemed not onely conuenient but necessarie also in all grounds and reasons of State that a King who acknowledgeth no superiour vnder God should be acknowledged to haue supreame authoritie vnder God in Ecclesiasticall affaires That this is a principall point of Regalitie and therefore necessarily annexed to the soueraigne maiestie of euery state That it is a hard matter if not impossible for any nation either to grow or long time to continue very great wherein a foraine power doth hold the regiment in Religion That in all ancient Empires and Common wealthes it hath been vsed That I could not finish that which I was about to speak being interrupted by a confused clamour of
iudgements to correct his lawes to restraine or constraine him at pleasure and with case Religion is seated within the soule and conscience of man and is a most potent ruler of the same The life saith Plinie consisteth in religion If then the consciences of a people be commanded by a stranger if their soules be subiect to a forraine power if their liues be at the seruice of an external Prince it is but a weake but a dead dominion which the naturall Prince shall hold ouer their bodies That Prince whose subiects soules are in subiection to a stranger for matters of religion shall neither preuaile more against his enemies nor beare greater authoritie amongst his owne people then that stranger shall limit him leaue All men of themselues are moued with religion but when they are also thrust on by those who make it their purchase as Liuie speaketh to possesse soules with superstition then doe they not inconsideratly only but in a wild furie runne and rush vpon most desperate aduentures The multitude saith Curtius being weake fierce and mutable when it is once possessed with vaine religion is more obedient to their Priests then to their Commander or Prince Diodorus Siculus hath a memorable Historie concerning this point of the Priests of Iupiter in the Iland Meroe enuironed with the riuer Niliu who held the people of Aethiopia in so superstitious dependancie vpon them that they would send to them at pleasure and giue in charge the slaughter of their Kings no man making offer either to deny or to delay their cruell command vntill Ergamenes a King of Aethiopia suddenly surprised and slew them all whereby both their office and authority did surcease Florus writeth that Eunus a slaue counterfeiting a fanaticall furie and pretending some diuine inspiration was able to see 60. thousand armed men in the face of the Romans euen in the principal time of their policie and strength being then hardlie able to deliuer Sicilia froÌ„ his subiection Iosephus reporteth of an Aegyptian in the time of the Emperour Claudius who bearing himselfe to be a Prophet vnder that pretext adioined 30. thousand men vnto him in the country of Iudea with whom he maintained head against the forces of the Romans Tacitus writeth the like of Maricus who giuing forth that he was the God and deliuerer of Gallia drew 8. thousand men vnto him with whom he attempted against the Romane garrisons One of our late writers reporteth that because in one chapter of the Alcoron all the Musulman Princes are forbidden to call themselues Lords except their Caliph or great Vicar of their Prophet Muhamed by colour thereof the Mahometan Bishops vsurped absolute soueraignety aboue all their Princes disposing of principalities at their pleasure vnder the name and title of gouernments At last the Muselman Princes supposing that Chapter not to haue been inserted by Mahamed their Law-giuer but by their Caliphes for aduancing their owne authoritie at such time when of diuers corrupt Alcorons they composed one long time after the death of Muhamed they tooke aduantage of a diuision among their great Bishops when three of them did take vpon them the title of great Caliph together and thereupon the Princes of Persia the Curdes the Turkes the Tartars the Sultans of Aegypt the Kings of Marrocco of Fez of Telensin of Tanes of Bugia the people of Zenetes and of Luntune quitted themselues of their obeysance to the Caliphes and maintained Soueraigntie within their states Elmahel in Africa hauing gained a great opinion of sanctitie among the people of Marocco raised them against Abraham their King and dispoyled him both of his Empire and life With like industrie and art an other impostor called Chemin Mennal stirred the people against the King of Fesse and constrained him by armes to yeeld vnto him the kingdome of Temesna Schacoculis being of the sect of the Persians by pretence of piety gathered such strength that he tooke many Cities in Asia ouerthrew the Turkes forces in three great battailes and brought his whole Empire to a dangerous distresse How Iohn of Leiden a Taylor by his trade set all Germany in vproare and in armes by bearing himselfe to be a principall man in religion it scarce exceedeth the memory of this present age And what practises in this kind haue been either atchieued or attempted in other Christian countries I shall haue occasioÌ„ hereafter to touch But for auoiding of these and the like dangers I find that two policies were aunciently obserued One consisted in excluding all externall ceremonies and rites the other was in commâ—ting the gouernment for matters of Religion to the soueraigne power and authoritie in the State In regard of the first the Iewes would not conuerse or accompanie a man who was not of their owne religion Among the Grecians Socrates and Protagoras were condemned Anaxagoras and Aristotle were accused for holding opinions contrarie to their receiued religion Iosephus writeth that the Athenians had a seuere law against any man who should speake a word in religion against that which was established by law The Scythians put Anacharsis to death for performing the tites of Bacchus after the manner of the Grecians Liuie writeth that among the Romanes the Aediles receiued in part of their charge that no externall religion or ceremony should be brought in And to the same purpose M. Aemilius recited a decree that no man should sacrifice in a publike or sacred place after a new or externall rite How often saith the same Liuie haue our fathers and ancestors giuen charge to the Magistrates that externall ceremonies should bee forbidden Maecenas in Dio gaue this exhortation and aduice to Augustus Obserue religion after the fashion of your country and compell others to do the like but those who bring in strange and foraine rites hate and correct because they perswade many to worke alterations from whence conspiracies and seditions are oftentimes occasioned Concerning the second point Iustine reporteth that it was a custome among the Iewes to haue the same men both Princes and Priests This was at sometimes true in the gouernment of the Iewes At other times the Kings gaue order in matters of religion and appointed not only inferiour Priests and officers as did Iosias but also high Priests as did King Salomon to execute the same For this cause Moses left in charge that the King should reade in the booke of the law all the daies of his life that he might learne to feare the Lord his God and to keepe all the words of that law and those ordinances for to dee them For this cause also they were sacred with oyle to declare saith Eusebius both their dutie and authoritie in matters of religion From hence it proceeded that as the Kings prooued good or euill so the true religion was either obserued or neglected From hence also Tacitus hath
betwixt the Bishops of Constantinople and of Rome whether should be greatest that diuers Emperours fauoured the Church of Constantinople but at the last Pope Boniface obtained of the Emperour Phocas that the Sea of Rome should be the chiefe of all other Churches This you account an errour in gouernment to settle a power of so high qualitie in a place farre distant from the principall strength of the Empire For hereby the Bishops of Rome did grow to such greatnesse that they drew the west part of the Empâ—â—e to reuolt and left the residue for a pray to the baâ—barous Infidels Lastly you haue shewed that the Bishops of Rome aduancing their authoritie by degrees haue been of power to reduce the west Empire to a feeble state and to hold not the Emperour alone but all the chiefe Kings in Europe either as vassals or as tributaries to their Sea Generally that they haue challenged Soueraigne iurisdiction ouer all Kingdomes and Common-wealthes in the world whereby they haue cast diuers countries and among others this Realme of England into desperate distresses Now before answere should be offred to all these seuerall points I would think it fit vnder the leaue of better Iudgements to take some reasonable respite to aduise vpon them because questions of this high nature are not alwaies the same which sodainly they seeme and he bewrayeth too great opinion of his owne sufficiencie who presently will vndertake a controuersie of this weight But if Christ hath committed supreame power in religion to the Sea of Rome then is no place left to these rules and reasons of state Nay answered N. I haue protested before that we haue neither leasure nor lust to engulphe our selues in such an Ocean If Christ hath committed to the sea of Rome This is a large supposall indeed and that which will neuer settle in the opinion of many who are otherwise firmely affected to the doctrine of the Church of Rome Yea I am assuredly perswaded that the violence of ambition hath pulled many Bishops of Rome from their owne iudgement in making claâ—me to that authoritie which they neuer had either title to hold or abilitie to rule For diuers of them being sodainely borne out of a low retired state namely from some Cloister or heremitage into an vnknowne Sea of absolute authoritie they were ouerswayed therewith like a small boate with too large a saile And being men for the most part spent in age vntrained in experience and neither by nature nor by education of abilitie to conceiue the bounds and degrees of great affaires they tooke to themselues a licentious libertie supposing it reasonable yea altogether necessarie that all the Kings and Princes of the earth who hold their estate immediately from heauen who receiue their power from the hand of God should be subiect to the pleasure the passions the fierie furie the ignorance the errors the malice of one haughtie and humerous man whose weaknes is subiect as it hath bin plainelie declared by their liues to all immoderate motions of humanitie And al this vpon no other ground but because Christ said to S. Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this rock will I build my Church c. But what is this to Supremacie what is this to the Bishop of Rome diuers questions must be cleered before this will serue the one or the other For first it is but weakely assured that S. Peter euer was at Rome Many reasons are alleaged against it and many authorities are brought for it But it often happeneth that the common consent of writers is like vnto a flocke of fowles as one flieth all doe follow Secondly it is lesse assured that euer he was Bishop of Rome For being an Apostle his charge was generall goe teach all nations and therefore not to be as a Bishop either limited or settled in any one particular place Or if we wil say that either by appointment or by choise some part of this generall charge was apportioned to S. Peter then this seemeth or rather is most assured to haue been Iudea by that which S. Paul hath written that the Gospell of Circumcision was committed vnto Peter as the Gospell of the vncircumcision was vnto him And therefore we find in Scripture that S. Paul was expressely sent to Rome but that S. Peter was euer at Rome we hold it by tradition This is further confirmed by the long aboade which S. Peter made in Iudea and by the short stay which is possible he could haue made at Rome euen by computation of them who best fauoured the dignitie of that Sea With that he called for Onuphrius and out of him read vnto vs that S. Peter liued after the death of Christ 34. yeeres 3. monethes and odde daies that the first nine yeeres he remained in Iudea that in the tenth yeere after Christs Passion in the end of the second yeere of the Empire of Claudius he departed from Iudea for feare of Agrippa from whose imprisonment hee had been deliuered by an angell that after he had trauailed preaching through many couÌ„tries he came to Rome and there contended with Simon Magus That after foure yeeres Agrippa being dead for feare of whom he â—orsooke Iudaea he returned to Ierusalem and was there present at the Councell of the Apostles wherein circumcision was abrogated That after this he remained seuen yeeres at Antioch that in the beginning of the Empire of Nero he returned to Rome and from thence trauailed almost thorough all the parts of Europe that comming againe to Rome in the last yeere of Nero S. Paul and he were there martyred To this agreeth that which Ireneus saith The blessed Apostles Peter and Paul laying the foundation of the Church of Rome committed to Linus the Bishopricke or charge of administration of that Church Now said he the third question is whether by these words Thou art Peter c. Christ gaue vnto S. Peter any speciall power or Iurisdiction either spirituall or secular more then vnto the residue of the Apostles where he did exercise when make claime to any such power by which of the Apostles it was acknowledged by what ancient father of the Church aduowed For diuers testimonies of S. Paul do beare against it S. Augustine S. Cyprian and others of principall authoritie in the Church doe expressely denie it Whereas the Scripture giueth so large and plaine testimonie both for the title and authoritie of Kings as it seemeth no greater can be added thereunto The fourth question may bee whether any power was giuen vnto S. Peter as Bishop of Rome which before the ascension of Christ hee could not bee otherwise how falleth it that the same should bee rather fixed in the Church of Rome then in any of those Churches where it is manifest by the scriptures that he remained many yeeres imploying himselfe in the exercise of his charge Fiftly what assurance can we haue that the power which is said to be committed to S.