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A00793 The answere vnto the nine points of controuersy, proposed by our late soueraygne (of famous memory) vnto M. Fisher of the Society of Iesus And the reioynder vnto the reply of D. Francis VVhite minister. With the picture of the sayd minister, or censure of his writings prefixed. Fisher, John, 1569-1641.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649. 1626 (1626) STC 10911; ESTC S102112 538,202 656

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for their horses Agaynst which Edict when one of his Souldiers had transgressed he gaue order he should be punished saying VVhat hope of Victory if we offend Saint Martin Hence his Enterprize was so fortunate illustrated by wonderfull euents A Stagge wēt before his army shewing where they might wade ouer the Riuer of Vienne then so swolne with water as it was not passable but only in that place Being in the field neere vnto Poytiers where Saint Hilaryes body is honoured Pharus ignea a Tower of light comming forth of the Church of the Saint shined vpon the King whereby encouraged he wonne a a most glorious day slew the Hereticall Vsurper with his owne hands deliuered the florishing part of France from the Arian Tyrany In his returne acknowledging the Victory gotten by Saint Martins intercession he offered vnto him his Warlike Palfree whereon he had fought so gloriously redeeming the same afterward with a Summe of money Pepinus who ioyned a great part of Germany that then was Pagan vnto the Crown of France had greater confidence of Victory in his deuout Inuocation of Saints then in the strength of his Armyes Hence hauing in a fierce Battayle with the Saxons obtayned a glorious Victory his wearyed and wounded Army being presently set vpon by a fresh mighty Band of Infidells S. Ludgerus in vitae S. Swiberts he lighting from his horse prostrate on the ground made a Vow vnto God and vnto Saint Swibert to visit his Reliques with his whole army barefoote Vpon which Vow straightwayes a wonderfull light from Heauen shined ouer him and his Forces that the Pagans terrified therwith without fighting yielded themselues and their whole Countrey of VVestphalia to his Obedience As almost all bookes be full of the Victoryes of Charles the first of France surnamed the Great so likewise they make full Record of his singular Reuerence vnto the Roman Bishop in whose defence he fought so many victorious Fields specially agaynst the Longobards whose Irreligion towards the Chayre of Peter the principall sea the fountayne of Christian Vnity wrought in the end the totall Sigon de Regno Ital. l. 3. 4. subuersion of their Kingdome After the Empire was translated from the Franks vnto the Saxons who more Va●iant and Victorious then Henry surnamed the Faulkener the first Emperour of that Stocke Being sicke and so weake as he could hardly hold himselfe on his horse he durst in person go into the Field against the mightiest army of Hunnes that euer entred Germany Witich l. 1. de reb Saxon Frodoar Chron. Eccles Rhem. Luitprand l. 2. c. 8. 9. Nauclerus in Chron. Gen. 31. à Christo nato so many in number and so confident in their forces as they durst bragge they could not be ouercome except eyther the Earth should sinke vnder them or the Heauens fall vpon them The King and his Souldiers fought valiantly but prayed no lesse deuoutly the King making often Vowes vnto God to roote Symony out of his Kingdomes did he win the day the Souldiers often repeating Kyrie eleyson Kyrie eleyson by the deuout ingemination of which Christian Letany agaynst the Hunnish Hui Hui Hui they got the Victory making manifest how great is the force of Prayer though in a language not vulgarly knowne For the victory was so Illustrious as in respect thereof the sayd Emperour became renowned admired honoured of all Christian Princes Otho the Great as in Piety and Deuotion so likewise for admired victoryes was nothing inferiour vnto the foresayd Henry his Father He Witichind lib. 1. Luitprandus lib. 4. cap. 11. 12. Naucler in chron Generat à Christo 32. part 2. pag. 82. much honoured the holy Lance made of the sacred Nayles of our Sauiours Crosse by vertue whereof he ouercame miraculously an immense Army of Hungarians who then were Pagans mighty troupes of Rebells that were ioyned agaynst him Being on the one side of the Rhene and the Rebells on the other a few of his Souldiers without his priuity passing the Riuer fell into the Enemyes hands The Pious Emperour seing them in distresse and not able to succour them mooued with compassion prostrated himselfe his whole Army doing the like before the holy Lance with many teares praying vnto our Sauiour whose Hands and Feete had been pierced with those sacred Nailes No sooner was he prostrate on the ground but presently the Rebells no man knowing why ranne away their harts inwardly cōsuming with feare so that many of them were killed taken prisoners by the aforesayd poore handfull of men Henry the second Emperour Nephew to this Otho was on the one side so Victorious as he ioyned vnto the Crowne of the Empyre the Kingdomes of Bohemia Sclauonia and Hungary on the other so giuen vnto Roman deuotiō as he is a canonized Saint of the Roman Church His Dithmar lib. 6. Religion towards Gods B. Mother was singular in whose Honour he vowed and kept his Virginity vnspotted togeather with Kunegundis the Virgin holy Empresse his Spouse When Godofred Viterb in Chronic. Cuspianus Bonfin de rebus Hungar. Dec. 2. lib. 1. he entred into any Citty his custome was to spend the first night praying in the Church of our Lady if any were in the place consecrated to her Name Hence in the battayle he fought agaynst Bolistaus King of Bohemia the Holy martyrs Saint Laurence Saint George Saint Adrian sent by the Queene of Saints were seene to goe before his Army Nauclerus à Christo gen 34. part 2. pag. 106. carrying the Standart of the Crosse striking the Enemy with blindnes so that they not being able to behold much lesse to resist the Emperours forces Bohemia was made Vassall vnto the Empyre without any effusion of bloud About the same tyme the two renowned Normans Robert and Roger vndertaking to free Sicily from the Tyranny of the Saracens wherewith the same had been a long tyme oppressed were constrayned with small forces to Thomas Fazellus de rebus Sicul. Decad. post lib. 7. p. 397. encounter an huge Host wherein were thirty thousand horse and foote without number In the heate of the battayle Saint George was seene blazing forth glorious beames of brightnes vpon a white Steed in a white Horsemans coate on which was sowed a Red Crosse thereby encouraging the Christian Army and driuing the Enemy before him Hence the Nation of the Normans conceaued speciall deuotion vnto S. George calling vpon him in their Battayles next after God and with the Normans it is likely the same deuotion entred into England In confirmation of this truth how many Examples doth Spayne affoard of Victories gotten by Catholike deuotions against the Saracens who in the yeare 701. made themselues maysters of the greatest part of that Countrey None of their victoryes more famous then that obtayned by the vertue of the Holy Crosse whereof they keepe yeerly a Triumphall Feast The This history is written by Rod●ricus Archbishop of Toledo who was there present De rebus
these horrible doctrines your Ministry doth resolutely define The fifth Argument In this kingdome the seditious and murtherous attempts of Campian Persons Garnet c. remayne to this houre in bleeding memory Answere The memory of your cruelty towardes Fa. Campian makes Christian harts bleed that such barbarous Inhumanity should be vsed by men that beare the name of Christians You condemned him who was a man to say nothing more ciuill mild courteous and completely learned Vir suauis politissimus Cambd. Elizab. p. 209. for meeting togeather with others to plot the Q death vpon a day when they were a thousand miles asunder the one from the other as it was there proued at the Barre The Queen ashamed thereof after his condemnation would by no meanes permit his execution but you by your importunity at last forced her to yield to the murthering of this Innocent Iesuit as the Scribes Pharises wonne Pilate to deliuer vnto their bloudy pleasure our Sauiour Iesus as your owne Historiographer doth testifye Importunis precibus euicta permisit Camden Elizab. pag. 326. Out of this your Caluinian immense desire of innocent bloud you neuer ceased to vent bloudy fables and to father them vpon Father Persons but neuer was nor could any be proued agaynst him nor agaynst Father Garnet but barely the hearing in Confession of the barbarous attempt of others But suppose your Antecedēt were true about these three Iesuits how foolish is your Inference Some Iesuits haue gone about murtherous attempts Ergo The Order of the Iesuits mantayne singular opinions against Regall authority If your argument be of good Consequence then this is of necessary importance Many Ministers haue been hanged in England for most bloudy and barbarous murthers yea commonly at the Assisses euery yeare some goe to preach from the Gallowes Ergo the English Ministry holds singular opinions about the lawfulnes of murther Can you proue that one of the Society of Iesus spread ouer the world was euer executed for any such crime by some Catholicke Prince If you could how would you insult So the vanity of your fifth Argument being apparent let vs cōtemplate the solidity of your last Lastly say you Iesuits heere among vs at this day be prime Oppugners Disswaders of the Oath of Allegiance it woūdeth them to the gall that secular Priests propugne the lawfullnes therof Answer That Oath contaynes not only Temporall Allegiance which Iesuits are most willing to sweare but also the Abnegation of the Catholicke Fayth to wit of the Authority giuen vnto Peter in the Gospell deuolued by course to his successour What you say that Iesuits herein be singular that secular Priests propugne the lawfullnes of this Oath their writings their deeds their deaths testify the contrary Which slaūder they would not let passe with silence did they not know your word to be of no credit yea by their experience of your Brother they be well assured that the venting of impudent falshoods comes to you by kind The Ministers fondnes in Cauilling at the Iesuits wordes about the Temporall Soueraignity of Popes IN your third Assault you vndertake to sift winnow as the Diuell doth Gods Elect these wordes of the Iesuit I disclayme from enlarging the Popes power ouer the Temporalityes of Princes by any singular opinion of mine or more then the definitions of Councells and consent of Deuines doth force mee to hold Thus you pleade agaynst him pag. 174. Marke heere You that shall reade this A sly Foxe that would seeme a sheepe and yet his tayle bewrayes him 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Though a Iesuit can couch well when neede is yet he sometymes breaketh out at vnawares Doth his Maiesty suspect or enquire whether the Iesuit hold an opinion different from his followes and personall to himselfe These wordes by any opinion of Mine implyeth the Indiuiduall only and so if he haue but a few yea any two Mariana and Bosius this may hold in Grammaticall sense Thus you thinking you haue shewed your selfe a witty Cauiller and hoping for applause you call mens eyes vpon you with Marke heere Indeed you haue played the Foxe but that foolish Foxe which as I haue heard one relate that saw it byting at an oyster that gaped the oyster closing caught him by the tongue by which tyed fast he stood a spectacle of laughter For let vs discusse the matter You say the wordes of the Iesuit By no singular opinions of mine imply the Indiuidual only Be it so what harme in that Marry the Foxes-tayle bewrayes him the Iesuit hath broken out at vnawares Into what hath he broken out Forsooth he sayth he will not enlarge the Popes power by opinions personall to himselfe Is this the Foxes-tayles whereof you cry to your Readers Marke heere Verily you deserue a flapp with a Foxe-tayle for your discouery thereof Oh but the King did not suspect the Iesuit of personall opinions in the behalfe of the Pope Are you acquaynted with the Kings secret thoughts suspitions Suppose he did not suspect what treason was it to say I will not by singular opinions enlarge Papall power Yea but this notwithstanding he may enlarge the Popes power if some few ioyne with him You that cry Marke heere do you not Marke that the Iesuit foresaw this Cauill and to preuent the same sayd by no singular opinions of Mine nor more then the definition of Councells or consent of Deuines shall force me to hold Is the opinion of Mariana and Bosius or of some few Deuines agaynst the rest the definition of Councells and the consent of Deuines Now are you not caught by the tongue What more can you say to hyde your witlesse inuiting men to note the wittines of your Cauill with Marke heere What may men Marke heere If you were in the Iesuits case you would not sticke to say Not a Foxes-tayle in my speach but an Asses-head in the Aduersaryes carping thereat But euen Popish Synods say you are not farre to seeke which haue exalted the Popes Temporall Soueraignty as farre ouer Princes as Heauen is aboue Earth How proue you this You say in the margent Bellarminus contra Barclaium enumerat sex Synodos Bellarmine numbreth six Synodes in his booke agaynst Barclay Well let him number twenty what then Doth Bellarmine say they make for the Popes Temporall Soueraignty No but that they proue the spirituall Soueraignty of Peter deuolued by course to his present Successour which not any Roman or Christian Synode but Christ Iesus himselfe exalted as high as Heauen putting all thinges whatsoeuer vpon earth vnder the same To thee I will giue the keyes of the Kingdome of heauen whatsoeuer thou shalt bind vpon earth shall be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer thou shalt loose vpon earth shall be loosed in heauen Matth. 16. Yet agayne your feeble wit would fayne second the strength of your malice agaynst the Iesuit You say Notwithstanding this Protestation he may defend the Popes Temporall Dominion and so close in
c. mother who falling into the hands of your Religion you held her so fast you griped her so hard as you droue the breath out of her body made her Sacred bloud run about her Annoynted Shoulders The Roman Religion in opposite hath giuen her by your paynting a Vizard and is made to stand treading vpon Crownes and Scepters to signify that she is by doctrine and practise a Deposer Contemner of Kings This Fancy would indeed be a Truth could you proue that Wickliffe Luther Caluin Beza Knox Buchanam Wittingham Goodman the like (b) See Bancroft Danger Posit VVhit l. 1. c. 4. l. 2. c 1. Protestāts Apolog. ●reface were Roman Catholikes Or could you shew that they were Papists of whom (c) Beza Ep. Theolog. 68. Beza sayth putting himselfe in the number What Churches should we now haue in the world had not this course been held to wit of erecting Churches by force of Armes in despite (*) Protestāts haue murdered fiue Catholik Kings or Princes They haue deposed Nine from their Kingdomes wholly or in part They haue set vp their Religiō at the least in fourty towns by force of Armes expelling the Magistrates murthering Priests Religious Persons breaking downe Images and burning Churches They haue byn at the least twenty seueral times in the field against their Catholik Soueraygnes six or seauen times against their soueraygnes that were presēt in persō All which may be proued by the testimony of Protestants if the margēt did permit Read Bancrofts Dangerous positiōs Osianders Epitom Histor. Centur. 16. the ●rotestāts Apolog. Preface of Princes and Magistrats So plainly doth he acknowledge your Churches to haue been euery where planted by treading vnder foote the Cōmands Edicts the Swords Gouernments the Crownes and Scepters of Kings The fourth opposition The Protestant Gentlewoman holdeth a pillar vnder her left Arme with a bough of palme in the same hand whereas the Roman hath on her left hand a Camelion sitting Your meaning is that you forsooth are stronge Constant in your Religion but we weake wauering ready to change for feare of persecution Your Constancy indeed is knowne that you are in your doctrines as immutable as the Moone In what point of Religion saith (d) Andraeas Duditius See Epist. Theol. Bezae epist. 1. 3. an eminēt Protestant be they that impugne the Roman Bishop firme and constant They COYNE MONETHLY FAITHS they are carryed away with the wind of euery doctrine What their Religiō is to day one may know but what it will be to morrow neyther themselues nor any mortall man can tell And whereas you make this your Gossippe to haue on her left side the pillar of Religion on her right the Crowne could any thing be more fit to expresse your Church of England For in her Religion Kings haue the better vpper hand of God the Apostolicall sentence We must rather obey God thē men is turned backward her Doctrine is mutable with the Princes pleasure that she may be better resembled by a Weather-cocke thē by a Pillar For what constācy can she haue that preferrs a Temporall Crowne before Christian Truth● The fifth Opposition betweene these two Women is in respect of the Tytles that are set ouer their heades yours being tearmed Veritas Vniuoca and ours Mendacium Aequiuocum Veritas vniuoca being in English Verity taught by the professours thereof with one voyce with vniforme consent I thinke the Reader will smile at your good Inuention that you could find no truer Tytle for your Gospell For what more notorious to the world then that your reformed Professours are Vniuocall in the doctrine they preach as diuine truth euen as the builders of Babel were Vniuocall in language after the diuision of their tōgues Vnto the Roman Religiō which doth detest lying about any the least thing which cōdemnes Equiuocall Ambiguous speach in the affayre of Religion in matters of Bargayne in familiarity of (e) See the Treatise tending to Mitigation Speach why doe you tearme her Mendacium Aequiuocum Vpon no other ground but in regard she teacheth that a Christian to defend his life and goods from the Tyranny of Oppressours may sometymes vse ambiguous and reserued speach A practise expressely allowed in Scripture as (f) Gregor in exposit l. 1. Reg. c. 16. His verbis ostenditur quòd Tyrannorum saeuitia atque versutia quandoque est PIA FRAVDE deludenda sic tamen Tyranni deludendi sunt vt caueatur culpa mendacii Quod tūc bene perficitur cùm illud quod fit asseritur sed quod fit sic dicitur vt celetur quia ex parte dicitur ex parte reticetur sayth S. Gregory The Scripture sheweth that the crafty cruelty of Tyrants is sometymes to be deluded by PIOVS FRAVD so sauing our selues from their malice that we tell not a Lye which then is well performed whē what is done is affirmed yet so affirmed as what is done is also cōcealed the thing being vttered in part and in part not vttered but retayned in mind I hope I haue cleerly discouered the falshood inanity of your Frontispiciall Emblemes and Pageants which occasioned my setting this Picture before the Reioynder the rather also to make your Image perfect and complete in the Entrance of both our ●ookes put togeather that the Reader may behold in the one the Out-side in the other the In-side of your Venerable Selfe If Caluin (g) Caluin lib. de scandalis sayd true of Ministers Praeclarum quidem zelum simulant they can make an excellent fayre shew of Zeale I will not deny but your Paynters curious hand hath elegantly set forth your Out-side For he hath paynted in your Face a fayre shew of Zeale of Modesty of Wisdome of Grauity specially in your demure looke Veluet cap and gray Beard so combed and handsomely composed as your Wife may seeme to haue had her fingar in the trimming thereof aswell as in the setting of your Ruffe But quid si intus excutias What if we looke into the In-side Heere your Paynters Pensill fayled him which defect some body perchance your selfe vndertooke to supply with his Poeticall Quil setting these verses vnder your Picture and the Picture of your Booke wearing a Crowne Wisdome Grace see in that modest looke Truth 's Triumph Errours downfall in this Booke But this is not liuely paynting of your In-side to the eye but only Verball Assertion of your hidden Worth to the eare which if one will reiect as the fabulous cōceyt of a Poet what can be replyed Or if you be Author of the Verses your selfe some perhaps will attribute these prayses not vnto Truth but vnto your Fawning with ouer-fauourable Fancyes vpon your owne Learning Triumphing before the Victory and vsurping a Crowne without right What then shall I doe how may I set forth the true vndeniable figure of your In-side Your (h) Reply pag. ●74 selfe say
the vnitie of the Church may ioyne togeather with your Excellent Wisdome and Learninge to pronounce the sentence Although I be confident that examining Religion by the meere rigour of onely Scripture the Catholicke Doctrines would get the victorie more cleere and expresse testimonies standing on our side then any that Protestāts can bring for thēselues (*) This is further made cleere by the Reioynder so that it is but the face of a Minister to say in this place That our relying on Scripture is Vanitas vanitatū as by the former discourse may appeare Although also I be much more confident in the tradition and perpetual practise of the Church interpreting Scripture which by so full cōsent deliuers the Roman Doctrine that partialitie it selfe duely pondering the weight of thinges can hardly in hart and inwardly iudge against them yet my chiefest hope is in these Charitable thoughtes and desires of peace and vnitie in the whole Christian world which the holy Ghost hath inspired into your Brest For suppose that Preconceipts instilled into tender myndes agaynst the faith of Auncestours might so farre preuaile as to make them thinke comparing Catholikes with Protestāts that Scriptures stand equally on both sides yea sifting the matter by Scripture only that Protestants may seeme to haue the vpper hand yet Charitie will moue this question Whether the testimonies and arguments they bring from Scripture are so vndeniably cleere and so vnauoydably strong that no answere or euasion may be found but the Roman (*) The Minister sayth we giue seeming and appering solutiōs but this is done by Sophistry I aske who shall be Iudge Or how can this by tryed by Scripture Church must be refused notwithstandinge so much discord and dissention so much inconstancy incertainty about religion which as reason proueth must and as experience sheweth doth thereupon ensue For if you cast away the Roman Church and her authority noe Church is left in the world that can with reason or dares for shame challenge to be infallible in her definitions if such a Church be wanting what meanes is left either to keepe the learned certainly in peace or to giue vnto the ignorant assurance what is the Doctrine of Saluation the Apostles first preached A Church fallible in her teaching is by the learned to be trusted noe further then they do see her Doctrines consonant vnto Scripture and so they may neglect her Iudgment when they seeme to haue euidences of Scripture against her And if this libertie of contradiction be granted what hope of Vnity remaines when a priuate man may wrangle eternally with the whole Church neuer be conuinced apparantly of teaching against the Scriptures Whereof we haue to many dayly examples If we take out of the world a Church infallible whence shall ignorant men learne which is the Doctrine of saluation that the Apostles deliuered It is as euident as the Sunne shyning at noone Day and the euidence of the thing hath forced some Protestants to acknowledge That the Controuersies of Religion in our time are grown in number so many and in nature so intricate that few haue time and leasure Field of the Church Prefat in l. 1. fewer strength of vnderstanding to examine them so that nothing remaines for men desi●ous of satisfaction in things of such consequēce but diligently to search out which amongest all the Societyes of men in the world is the Church of the liuing God the pillar ground of truth that so they may imbrace her communion follow her directions rest in her Iudgement If there be no Church in the world besides the the Roman that can with any colour pretend Infallibity of Iudgement If the most part of men cannot by their examining of Controuersies be resolued in faith and therfore must perish eternally except they finde a Church that is an infallible mistresse of truth in whose Iudgment they may securely rest Certainly those that haue bowells of Charity will accept of any probable answere vnto Protestants obiections and accusations rather then discredit the authority of so necessary a Church which being discredited no Church remaines in the world of credit sufficient to sustaine the waight of Christian that is infallible Beliefe What a misery will it be if it fall out as it is most likely it will fall out that at the Day of Iudgement the most part of English Protestants be found to haue belieued points of Doctrine necessary to saluation not out of their owne certaine skill in Scripture as they should by the principles of their religiō but (*) The Minister here rayleth but dares not directly answere the Question What shall become of ignorant mē who belieued the truth vpō the credit of their Church not vpō their owne infallible knowledge vpō the credit of the Church that teacheth them which doth acknowledge her selfe no sufficient stay of assured beliefe For without question men cannot be saued who although they belieued the truth yet belieued it vpon a deceauable ground and consequently by humaine and fallable perswasion and not as need is by a diuine most certaine beliefe grounded vppon an infallible foundation which cannot be had without an infallible Church How dreadfull then must the danger be of liuing out of the lappe of the Roman Church that is of a Church of infallible Authority This Church hauing a most glorious succession of Bishops from the Apostles deserues aboue all other the protection of your Maiesty who by a long line of religious Catholike Ancestors succeed in the right of two Illustrious Kingdomes and being so beneficiall vnto mankind so efficacious to mayntayne Vnity (*) Our Hopes did not dye with our late Soueraigne but still liue in his Royall Issue and of the most Sacred Queene Martyr his Mother we cannot giue ouer hope of your Fauour whom singular preseruation in the wombe of your glorious mother agaynst the barbarous attempts of Hereticall diuision that would haue brought you to an immature end shewes to be by Gods infinite wisdome perordained for some singular good of mankind specially by your meanes to quench wars and dissentions and to bestow the blessings of peace vnion on this land Your Title to the Crowne of England springes from the peacefull coniunction of the two renowned Roses which before were mortall enemies and fought so many cruell feilds that if we consider the great effusion of bloud wherein ech of them were bathed we shall hardly discerne the one from the other by the diuersity of colour Your Maiesties Person is the roote of a more happy vnion of two most glorious Kingdomes by your Sacred Person combined in assured peace which in the hystoryes of former times are by no other markes more famously knowne then by their mutuall warres Nothing remaines to be added for the full consummation of this Ilands happines and your Maiesties immortal Glory but the quenching of discord about religion by bringing them back againe to the roote matrice of the Catholique Church Cyp. lib. 1. epist. 3. ad Cornel. to the Chayre of Peter the principall Sea from which Sacerdotall and Sacred Vnity springs and to which perfidious Errour hath no accesse Wherby your Maiesty shall extend the blessings of peace from this Iland to the rest of Europe from the the body vnto the soule and crowne your temporall peace and felicity with eternall For both which not only I but all of my profession yea all Catholikes wil offer vnto Almighty God our daily praiers FINIS