of Glâ—cester An 6. Hen. 6. Totum dominium de Powis tenetur de domino Rege Angliae ut principe Walliae per servitium Baronum viz. de serto de Aberfro est in dominio de Powis qued dam alind sâ—rtum vocatum Mathraval quod simul cum omnibus terris tenementis eidem certo de Mathraval junctis annexatis tenet de domino rege ut principe Walliae per servitium praedictum in capite de jure teneri debet ut de certo de Aberffro praedicto An other Inquisition found likewise at Baâ—a in the 48th year of Ed. 3. saith that Dominium de Powis iutegrè tenâ—batur de principibus Walliae in capite viz. de certo de Aberffraw Et est in dominio de Powis quoddam alind certum vocatum Mathraval quod simul cum omnibus terris tenementis eidem certo junctis annexatis tenebatur adhuc de jure teneri debâ—ntur de certo de Aberffraw And last of all I must put you in mind that Cadell king of Powis Father of Nest Grandmother to Roderic the great was the son of Elisseu and not of Brochwel Ysgithroc for Brochwel as you say was King of Powis An. 617. and this Cadell whom you will have to be his Son died An 808. as Caradoc of Lancarvan affirmeth so then that one or yet both of them should raigne very neer 200 yeeres is almost impossible and altogether untrue for according to the ancient histories of Wales Cadelh was the son of Elisseu the son of Cynllaw the son of Beli the son of Maelmynan the son of Selyf or Salomon the son of Cynan the son of Brochwel Ysgythroc King of Powis and Earle of Chester Thus you see your first Argument and reason for Cadell's seniority and soveraignty quite overthrown First by the testimony of Camden declaring that the latter princes of Powis the issue of Cadell were descended from the third son of Roderic the great which degree of birth the Authors above mentioned ascribe unto Cadell by name Secondly by an undoubted proof of Meruyn's issue and lastly by the soveraignty over Powis proved to be in the princes of Northwales all which infallibly conclude them to be descended from the eldest son of Roderic the great The second Argument THat Southwales which was the portion of Cadelh was far larger then any of the two other almost double in quantity containing 38. Cantreds and 80. Commots whereas both Northwales and Powis contained but 29. Cantreds and 78. Commots and yet the Cantred of Buelht and the forrest of Dean are admitted in that division to be in Pâ—wis which were part of Southwales and assigned to Cadelh Southwales also was the far better Soile generally and most replenished with Noble men and Gentry Therefore it was the fittest portion to be assigned to the Eldest and Soveraigne and unfit for a younger brother upon evident ground of reason The Answer to the second Argument TO find out the true proportion of Cadelh's inheritance your Countryman Jo Asser Menevensis that lived in Cadelh's time will with most approved Authority direct us Illo enim tempore multò ante omnes regiones dextralis Britanniae partis ad Elfred regem pertinebant adhuc pertinent Hemeid soilicet cum omnibus habitatoribus Demeticae regionis sex filiorum Râ—tri vi compulsus regali se subdiderat imperio Hovil quoque filius Ris rex Glegnising Brochmail atque Fernail filii Meuric reges Gwent vi tyraâ—â—ide Eadred comitis Merciorum compulsi suapte eundem expetivere regem ut dominium defensionem ab eo pro inimicis suis haberent Helised queque filius Teudyr rex Brechoniae eorundem siliorum Rotri vi coactus dominium regis praefati suapte requisivit Hereby it appeares that Dyved now called Pembrokeshire Brechnock Gwent and Glewising had their severall Kings in Cadell's time so that of a certainty his portion cannot exceed the two counties of Cardigan and Carmardhen of old called the Kingdome of Cardigan which countrey being then the possession and Kingdome of Cadell who was not yet in league with King Alfred Asserius mentioneth not And Rees ap Theodor the most powerfull prince as you say since Roderic the great 's time had no more in his possession then those two counties as Sr. Edward Stradling in the conquest of Glamorgan makes good all which containing scarce IX Cantreds may seem far inferior in quantity to Northwales which in the daies of Howell Dda contained 18. Cantreds as Morgeneû y nad and Kysnerth his son do averre in their book of Brittish lawes Neither will it availe you though you proved that Cadâ—lh's soveraignty as chief prince of Southwales did extend to all the inferior princes within Southwales for so likewise did the soveraignty of â—narawd conclude Cadelh and all Wales in generall as owing homage to him the first of their line by the ordiuance of Roderic the great mentioned in the Description of Cambria by Sr. Jo Price and confirmed also by the lawes of Howel Dda Farther I stand not so much upon the Fertility of Northwales as upon the Situation and naturall strength thereof against all invasions being therefore most fit and requisite for a soveraign prince in a troubled time though well I might call the Inland country of Northwales wherein the vallie of Clwyd stretcheth it self 18. miles in length and sometimes 4. 5. 6. and 7. in breadth to witnesse against you Vallis haec saith Mr. Camden à salubritate fertilitate amoenitate verè foelix incolarum color est sanus capitis firma sinceritas inoffensum oculorum lumen annosa admodum senectus Ipsa verò virentibus pratis flaventibus arvis creberrimis villis templis spectantium oculis mirum in modum arridet And also the I le of Anglesea and the vast Snowdon hills that send so many thousands of Cattell yearly to England and no small number to Westwales lest affection might over-rule me Giraldus your countryman whose testimony you cannot except against shall speak for me Est autem haec insula prae cunctis Cambriae finibus triticeo germine incomparabiliter foecunda adeò ut proverbialiter dici soleat linguâ Britannicâ Môn Mam Gymry quod latinè sonat Mona mater Cambriae quoniam aliis undique terris deficientibus haec sola gleba praepingui uberique frugum proventu Cambriam totam sustentare consuevit And in another place Tantaeâ—tiam tam immensae quantitatis esse perhibentur montes Eryri that is Snowdon hills ut antiquo proverbio dici solâ—at sicut Monam insulam hâ—minibus in annona sic Eryri in pascuis coactis in unum armentis omnibus totius Walliae sufficere posse Then if you look to the situation thereof which you should have done together with these comparisons you shall find it to be farthest from the English a matter of great consequence in those daies and which is more it was and yet is the strongest
your Argument And here I do greatly marvel who those six Kings of Southwales were that as you say assumed to their hands the government of Northwales for Mredyth ap Owen was neither king nor heir apparent of Southwales when he conquered Northwales and Howel ap Edwyn was King of Southwales when Griffith ap Lhewelyn undertook the rule of Northwales and in like manner Mredyth ap Owen ap Edwym governed Southwales when Biedhyn ap Cynfyn received the principality of Northwales at the hands of the king of England doing homage for the same whereby it is evident that these three princes were not of the six that you mention and Howel Dha with Lhewelyn ap Seissyllt though they were most worthy and noble princes yet cannot exceed the number of two therefore the number of six must needs be a mistake It is also to be observed that these princes Mredyth Griff Bledhyn and Trahayarn ap Caradoc after they had settled themselves in the sure and quiet possession of Northwales seised to their hands the Kingdome of Southwales and held the same either by strong hand and usurpation or by state of inheritance or else in the right of Soveraignty over all Wales that belonged to the crown of Nâ—rthwales Usurpers they were not if it be true that as you say in the end of your Treatise Southwales did never faile of a lawfull Prince to govern it till the period thereof by the fatall overthrow of prince Rees ap Theodor lawfull heires also to Cadelh they cannot be for the posterity of Enâ—on the son of Owen king of Southwales and eldest brother to the said Mredyth were living and therefore they could not challenge Southwales by inheritance it remaines then of necessity that their title to Southwales was grounded on the soveraignty that belonged to the king of Northwales whereof they were princes But howsoever the matter went it is certaine that they were kings of Northwales and being so they took into their hands the regiment of Southwales whereby I do conclude it was a grosse error in you when you say that no prince of Northwales did ever rule in Southwales or by any occasion did claime the principality thereof seeing the examples of four princes must cause you to confesse either your ignorance or partiall censure Lastly you say that Rees ap Theodor prince of Southwales with great valor and wisdome did expell Trahern ap Caradoc the last usurper of Nerthwales and placed Griff ap Conan in the quiet possession thereof but antiquity the truth will informe us otherwise for in the life of Griff. ap Conan we may read that when the said Griffith with his navy landed at Portcleis neer St. Davids your powerfull prince Rees had been a little before deprived of his Kingdome by Trahayarn king of Northwales and others and for safegard of his life had covertly taken Sanctuary at St. Davids but hearing of Griffith's approach he came with the Bishop and all the clergy of that house to meet him where Rees fell upon his knees before Griffith and acquainting him with his ill fortunes desired his help and aid to fight with those his adversaries promising to do him homage and to reward him with the moity of his Revenues and Griff pittying his estate yeelded to his request and having overthrown in battell his enemies he installed Rees in the quiet possession of Southwales entred and destroyed Powis with fire and sword and recovered the Kingdome of Northwales his due inheritance here withall I find an entry made to Powys by a prince of Northwales before the fatall overthrow of Rees ap Theâ—dor which you deny in your first Argument The sixth Argument THat the kings of England did ground their title to the principality and soveraignty of Wales upon the conquering of Rees ap Theodor prince of Wales in the raign of Rufus and not upon the subduing of Lhewelyn ap Griffiu in the raign of Edward the first as the writers of Northwales do alledge for from the conquering of Rees ap Theodor all the withstanding of the power of the kings of England in Wales was termed by them Rebellion and Treason which before alwaies had the name of War And thenceforth the Kings of England did give Seigniories and possessions in Wales to their English subjects and so the Lords Marchers began and thenceforth were the strong Castles and Forts erected and Garrisons planted in all parts of Wales wherein either the Kings of England or the Lords Marchers did set footing which grounded in the Kings of England a resolution to prosecute and accomplish the absolute conquest of Wales And thereby the bishoprick of St. Davids and by that sea all the rest of the Bishopricks of Wales were brought under the jurisdiction of Canterbury And thereupon Griff. ap Conan and the rest of the princes of Northwales succeeding yeilded to the kings of England submission for that principality and to hold the same of the crown of England and gave them pledges to abide in their peace And the kings of England were stayed from the absolute conquest of Northwales chiefly by their unsettled state in England being full of troubles especially by the French and Barons wars which were no sooner ended but that King Henry the third and his son Edward 1. took Northwales from Lhewelyn the last yet adding thereby no more to his former possession of the principality of Wales as the statute of Ruthlan doth shew but terram de Snowdon and accounting Lhewelyn not an Enemie but a Rebell as appeared by fixing his head on the highest turret of the Tower of London and executing his brother David for Treason whereas the English did deliver the slain body of Rees ap Theodor to a decent and honourable buriall in the Abbey of Ystradflwr The Answer ALthough the Kings of England after the overthrow of Rees ap Theodor did terme the withstanding of their power in Wales rebellion and Treason it cannot be conceived that should be a sufficient ground for their title to the principality of Wales for what are those termes but the hard censure of their utter and alwaies professed enemies in their greatest anger and indignation peradventure after some shamefull overthrow and losse received and therefore not much to be regarded But it cannot be granted they gave such names to those wars for the wars between King John with his Successors the Kings of England and Lhewelyn the great David his son Owen Goch and Lhewelyn ap Griffith Princes of Wales are alwaies termed Guerrae as it appears in the submissions of David ap Lhewelyn An 1240. 1241. of Owen Goch and Lhewelyn An the adward of Ottobonus the Pope's Legate An 1268. and the agreement between Edward the first and the said Lhewelyn prince of Wales An 1277. do likewise call those wars Guerrae which doth not in any Author signifie Rebellion as must needs be acknowledged Now that the kings of England thenceforth did give Seigniories and possessions in Wales to their
if there had been any doubt in the matter And thus he writeth Tri meib i Rodri meun tremyn i keid Cadelh Nerawd Mervyn Rhannodh ef yr hwn oedh vn Rhodhiad holl Kymry rhydhyn Rhannodh a gadodh er gwelh dawn yfydh Dinefwr i Gadelh Ymab hynaf oi stafelh Pennaf o wyr pwyvn welh Nerawd wr gwastawd dan go yn gyfan A gafas Aberffro May dayoni Duw yno Fe biau i bryniaw ay bro. Gwir gwir a dhoydyr i dhyn paen ifank Powys cafas Mervyn Lhymar modh yr adrodhyn Ytreir rhwyng y trywyr hyn In English thus Three sons we find were unto Roderi VVhom Cadelh Nerawd Mervyn men do call Divide he did that was a Monarchy Of Cambria a guift between them all Divide and leave for best O justly done Dinevowr unto Cadelh did he then Within his bower the first begotten son And who so good the chiefest of the men And courteous Anarawd did possesse Aberffro for his portion mark you this Whom God I pray with goodnesse all to blesse Both hills and dales the same his own it is The tale is true yea true it came to passe That Powis should young Mervyn's portion be And thus for truth the very manner was How all divided stood between them three The Answer I cannot think it reason from the doubt of Northwales writers whether Anarawd or Mervyn were the eldest son of Roderic the great to conclude Cadelh to be the eldest especially seeing neither our writers nor any else do make any thing for Cadelh and also that all in generall do agree that the King of Northwales howsoever he were called was the eldest of the Brethren Not only Dr. Powel but a multitude of most ancient writers do prefer Anarawd to the Kingdome of Northwales as our ancient Bards and writers of Genealogies Illorum enim saith Dr. Powel constans assertio est Anaratum primogenitum principem fuisse Venedotiae The ancient Author of Griffith ap Conan's life brings the pedegree of the said Griffith lineally to Anarawd Meilir Brydydh that flourished in William the Conqueror's time averres the said Griffith to be descended of Anarawd Caradocus Lancarvanensis affirmes that Anarawd the eldest son of Roderic the great was King of Northwal s. And last of all Niâ—nius the old British writer and Disciple of Elv dugus who lived in the daies of Roderic and his children saith thus Anaraught rex Moniae i.e. Môn qui regit modo regnum Wencdociae regionis i. Gweinedh Therefore Giraldus Cambrensis with his followers Leyland and Lhwyd must needs be in an error when he gives his voice for Mervyn And truly Giraldus Cambrensis though in antiquity he were most expert and skilfull yet seems not a little to be ignorant of the true history of Roderic the great and his children for besides the former error in the 2d chapter of his book intituled Descriptio Cambriae he avers that the said Roderic was the cause of the division of Wales into the three kingdomes of Northwales Southwales and Powis whereas it is apparent that the said three kingdomes had their severall Kings many years before his birth as Dr. Powâ—l most truly proveth in his notes upon the said chapter then also he saith that Cadelh to whom Roderic had given Southwales for his portion survived Anarawd and Mervyn whereby he got the monarchy of all Wales Cadelh saith he praemortuis fratâ—ibus totius Walliâ— monarchiam obtinait And Caradâ—cus a more ancient writer testifieth that Cadelh died 6. years before Anarawd with whom agreeth your countreyman George Owen Harry and another most ancient British Chronologer which beginneth thus Oes Gwrtheyrn Gortheneu c. mentioned by Sr. John Prise p. 121. defensionis Britannicae historiae Lastly he faith that Cadâ—lh's successors even to Theodor enjoyed the said mâ—narchy whereas it is clear that diverse of the line of Anarawd ruled the Kingdome of Northwales during that time so that we cannot but conclude Giraldus to be in a grosse error And as to the testimony of David Nanmor on whom relies your whole hope for Cadelh's soveraignty it is answered that his Authority had it been as you make it to be which shall appear to be far otherwise especially in so ancient a matter as we now handle being favoured or strengthned by no antiquity and himselfe not flourishing before the middle of the raign of Henry the sixth would have been too weak to encounter not only Dr. Powel but a multitude of most ancient Anthors well seen in antiquity that maintain the contrary I cannot be perswaded that he was ever of that opinion nor that those verses you are pleased to lay to him are his They do not savor of the skill of the meanest Bard much lesse of Nanmor that sometimes contended with David ap Edmond for the chair at the Eistedhfa in Caermarthen and by his Compod manuel his Gorchestion Cywydhau Odes and Epigramms is well known to surpasse most men of his time in Poeticall science They have faults as to the measures in 4. seveâ—all places such as our Bards terme Twyll gynghanedh and Twyll odl which by the teachers of the faculty to wit Dr. David du of Hiradhic Edyrn dafod Aur Eneon yffâ—irad and divers others have been damned for schismes and solaecismes in the art and so forbid to be used It being so as to the Poetry the History may justly be suspected of mistakes if not of forgery in order to the promoting of a small designe And there are mistakes in the history for Rodâ—ric was not the divider of Wales and Cadelh is denyed by all writers to be the eldest of the 3. Brethren nor was the K. of Aberffraws name Nerawd but Anarawd And in the 5th and last Stanza which you forbear the mention of there is a manifest error for therein it is said that Roderic made his division betwen his 3. sons A.D. 811. long before his reign and probably before he was born for Caradocus saith he began his reign A. 843. and his father Mervyn frych but in the year 817. at which time Prince Conan Tindaethwy dyed The eleventh Argument THese authorities and reasons are delivered simply to beat out the the truth of this point in question and chiefly out of a desire to clear the way for a perfect History of Wales if any shall undertake it which otherwise cannot be for besides this evidence of the soveraignty of the Prince of Southwales where there never failed a lawfull prince to govern untill the period thereof by the fatall overthrow of the last and worthy prince Prince Rees ap Thâ—odor it seems not fit to register the acts of Wales for a great part of 200. years under Usurpers And therefore it is desired that if any shall be disposed to answer hereunto or to give reasons for maintaining their allegation it be done without prejudice or partiality and that they range not out of the limits of the question The Answer WHereas you alledge that your authorities and reasons are delivered simply to
prince of Southwales and attributing the same wholly to the power of a third son whereas it is evident that he had neither force nor authority to perform it but as his fathers minister and subject whom his father thought good to honour with the fruit of his valour and victory being atchieved propriâ manu not proprio marte more then the conquests of the famous prince Edward called the black prince whose everlasting honours they are but the possessory right of them was to his fathers crown And it is to be observed that as the division of Wales by Roderic the great did give the ground of the subduing thereof to the crown of England so it bred these preparatives thereunto first the continuall usurpation of the Descendants of Anarawd upon his lawfull heirs Insomuch as for 200 yeares after the division five of that line did intermissively usurp the government of Northwales and only two lawfull princes ruled there and those not past 12 yeares if they be allowed to be the issue of Anarawd which some writers of Northwales do gainsay in which licentious times one Aedan ap Blegored a meer private man neither of the bloud of the Prince nor of the Nobility that any antiquity doth record intruded into the government and held it 12. yeares untill he was expelled by the prince of Southwales Secondly it gave the Danes and English opportunity to invade and weaken all the parts of Wales who were often called in by the usurpers of Northwales to joyn with them against the prince of Southwales By those occasions the princes of Southwales as supreme lords of Wales for the generall quiet preservation thereof did seize assume into their hands the government of Northasales wherein six of them ruled the said 200. yeares which had not they done the government in all likelihood had been in that time translated from the race of Roderic the great But in the end of those 200 yeares Rees ap Theodor prince of Southwales with great valour and wisdome did overcome all these long grown evills and being the most powerfull prince that was since Roderic the great and lineal heir to Cadelh expelled Trahern ap Caradoc the last usurper of Northwales and placed Griffith ap Conan who was held to be the lawfull prince of the house of Anarawd in the quiet and settled possession thereof which honourable dealing was very ill requited by Griffith ap Conan towards the son of Rees ap Theodor in his distresse as shall be after declared By all which may appear the generall care of the princes of Southwales over the whole dominion of Wales derived from their supreme power authority and jurisdiction For confirmation hereof it is further to be observed that sithence the said division no prince of Northwales did ever rule in Southwales or by any occasion did make claime to the principality thereof and therefore upon this disposing of the principality of Northwales by the princes of Southwales it is further concluded that the princes of Southwales were the soveraign princes of Wales The Answer IT is recorded by Caradocus that Anarawd King of Northwales made a road into the country of Cardigan Ystradtywi the possession of his brother Cadelh but being that the Author alleageth not the cause thereof as whether it were lawfull or unlawfull it might with better reason be said that it was made for the defect of Payment of the Tribute due to the crown of Abersraw from Southwales then such a Rebellion as thereby forfeiture of Royalty should ensue and considering also that no chastisement was executed by Cadelh or Howel Dha his son upō Anarawd who lived long after it may seem great rigor and tyranny in him and much to derogate from his title of Dha that is the good if he did deprive Idwal's son of his inheritance for the offence of Anarawd his grandfather committed many yeares before his birth not upon the countries of Howel as you say but of Cadelh his father Therefore if you hold his coming to Northwales to be upon good and lawfull grounds it will be your best course rejecting offences and forfeitures wholly to stick to the incapacity of the heir of Northwales by reason whereof Howel's coming to Northwales whether it were as being next of blood able and worthy to undertake such a charge or by the appointment of his cousen Idwal foreseeing perhaps the weaknesse of his son or else by the election of the people was good just and lawfull And in regard of his said regency over the house of Northwales and the right thereunto belonging I do confesse that he was the soveraign prince of all Wales But considering that after his death the other sons of Idwal Voel and their successors the princes of Northwales recovered and held as I said before as well the soveraignty of all Wales as the rule of Northwales it plainly appears that the right of soveraignty belonged not to Southwales Moreover Owen the son of Howel Dha was never ruler of Northwales nor had any action against Cadwalhon ap Jeuaf whereby to deprive him of his Crown and Kingdome as you say neither is it likely if he had so conquered him that he would preferre his yonngest son to the Government of that Kingdome lest by exalting the younger brother to honours and dignities above the elder discord and sedition might breed between them and in a word your own countryman Caradocus that lived about 250 years after this time attributeth the overthrow of Cadwalhon ap Jevaf and conquest of Northwales to the only power of Mredith ap Owen who then in his Mothers right did rule all Powis land whereby his power to undertake that voyage may plainly appear in these words Mredyth ap Owein a lathawdh Cadwallawn ap Jevaf drwy fuddugoliaeth a chaffael meddiant oi gyuoeth sef gwyneth a Mon a ddarystngawdh iddaw that is Mredith ap Owen slew Cad ap Jeuaf in battell and seised on his dominions for Northwales and the isle of Anglesey submitted to him Here is no mention had of Owen or his power and therefore our writers of Northwales being only Interpreters of your Caradocus are free from that scandalous imputation that you charge them with And Lhewelyn ap Seissyllt prince of Southwales who overcame Aedan ap Blegowryd did not challenge the regency of Northwales for Jago the son of Idwal the lawfull heir as is thought was not as yet in full age as appertaining any way to the crown of Southwales as you could wish it but as he was next heir of blood unto the said Jago for as Caradocus saith he was descended from the kings of Wales by the mother side whose name was Trawst the daughter and heir of Elissau the second son of Anarawd the eldest son of Roderic the great and by that meanes according to the same Author he claimed and enjoyed the right of Northwales therefore his coming to the rule of that Kindome doth not at all favour or confirme