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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61119	Reasons for vnitie, peace, and love with an answer (called Shadows flying away) to a book of Mr. Gataker, one of the assembly, intituled, A mistake, &c. and the book of the namelesse author called, The plea, both writ against me : and a very short answer, in a word, to a book by another namelesse author called, An after-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh, and to Master Edward his second part called, Gangrena, directed to me ... / by John Saltmarsh ...	Saltmarsh, John, d. 1647.	1646 (1646)	Wing S496; ESTC R11619	30,054	33

girdles We are not now as Aaron and Moses we are not a Kingdom of Israell nor a Church of Israel though too many of you have preached the Old Testament more then the New for what advantage let the Magistrate judge To the Seventeenth That he may in time say as much of justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as of Truth and so to be a Mystery of Iniquity These are but infirmations to the Magistrate and ghosts of Jealousie which you raise And to put an end to such feares when I make Church and State Magistrate and Ministery Gospell laws and Civill to be both one then challenge me for that opinion But I have learned that Christs Kingdom and the worlds have a severall Policy and that may be a Law in the one which is not to the other And now is it your Inference or my Principle wrongs the Magistrate An Answer in few words to Master Edwards his second Part of the GANGRENA And to the namelesse Author of a Book called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh MAster Edwards the difference betwixt ye both is this You set your name to more then you know as hath been well witnessed and this man dare set his name to nothing You sin without shame and your Partner is ashamed of what he doth Sin is too powerfull in you against Truth because you shew your selfe and Truth is too powerfull for him because he hides himselfe Master Edwards I shall answer you in these few words but first The Lord rebuke thee even the Lord 1. If the Image of Christ be in any of those you so persecute how can you answer it to Jesus Christ to cash any dirt on the glory of him 2. If God be in any of those you are so much an enemy to how will you answer it to fight against God any thing of God 3. If any of those be the children of the heavenly Father or the little ones of the Gospell It were better that a milstone were hanged about your neck and you cast into the Sea So Christ tels you 4. What is it to sin against the holy Ghost but to hate the Light once known or to blaspheme the works of the Spirit And you once professed to me you had almost been one of those whom you call Hereticks Oh take heed of that sin there is no more Sacrifice for that And how if the works of those you so judge be wrought in the Spirit shall you ever be forgiven in this world or in that to come Read the words and tremble 5. Doth not the Word bid you restore those that are fallen in meeknesse and tell your brother his fault first betwixt you and him And you never yet came to any of them that I could heare of but print proclaime tell stories to the world of all you heare see know Is Christ in this Spirit Is the Gospell in this straine Will this be peace to your soule hereafter 6. Solomon tels us that a man may seem faire in his own tale till his neighbour search out the matter And how dare you then take all things at one hand and not at anothers How dare you have one eare open for complaints and faults and crimes and the other shut against all defence Did ever Justice do this Did you ever call for their accusers face to face Did you ever traverse Testimonies on both sides And dare you judge thus and condemne thus Shall not the Judge of Heaven and Earth make you tremble for this Injustice Shall he not make Inquisition upon your soule for this bloud 7. It is any other ground or bottome you stand on in this your way of accusing the Brethren but Paul you say named some and the Fathers named some so and Calvin as you told me the other day when I met you And was there ever crime without some Scripture or shadow of the Word Did not Canterbury on the Scaffold preach a Sermon of as much Scripture and Story for what he did as you can for yours if you should ever preach there He thought ye ill Hereticks as you do us he thought he might persecute you as you do us and he had a Word from John Baptist for his manner of death and a Word from the Red sea and Israelites for his death and enemies and a Word from Paul for his Changing Laws and Customes and for his crime of Popery he had a Word from them that feared the Romanes would come and take away their Government Thus Satan and Selfe can paint the worst kind of sin Poore soule Is your conscience no better seated then in such aiery apparitions of Scripture and failings of Fathers Do not you heare the Prayers of those soules you wound pleading with God against your sin Are you not in the gall of bitternesse and bond of iniquity Is not your spirit yet flying when none pursues you Are not your dreames of the everlasting burning and of the worme that never dies Have you no gnawings no flashings no lightnings I am afraid of you Your face and complexion shewes a most sadly parched burnt and withered spirit Me thought when I called to you the other day in the street and challenged you for your unanswerable Crime against me in the third page of the last Gangrena in setting my name against all the Heresies you reckon which your own soule and the world can witnesse to be none of mine and your own confession to me when I challenged you How were you troubled in spirit and language Your sin was as I thought upon you scourging you checking you as I spoke I told you at parting I hoped we should overcome you by prayer I beleeve we shall pray you either into Repentance or Shame or Judgement ere we have done with you But Oh might it be Repentance rather till Master Edwards smite upon his thigh and say what have I done For your Anagram upon my name you do but fulfill the Prophesie They shall cast out your name as evill for the Son of mans sake And for your Book of Jeeres and Stories of your Brethren Poore man It will not be long musick in your eares at this rate of sinning For the namelesse Author and his After-reckoning let all such men be doing for me Let them raile revile blaspheme call Hereticks It is enough to me that they write such vanity they dare not own And now let me tell ye both and all such Pensioners to the great accuser of the Brethren Fill up the measure of your iniquity if ye will needs perish whether we will or no I hope I rest in the bosome of Christ with others of my Brethren raile persecute do your worst I challenge all the powers of hell that set ye on work while Christ is made unto me righteousnesse wisedome sanctification and redemption And I must tell ye further that since any of the light and glory of Christ dawned upon me since first I saw that Morning-Star of righteousnesse any of the brightnesse of the glory in my heart that heart of mine which once lived in the coasts of Zebulon and Nephtaly in the region and shadow of death I can freely challenge ye and thousands more such as ye to say write do worke print or any thing and I hope I shall in the strength of Christ in whom I am able to do all things give you blessings for cursings and prayers for persecutions FINIS Pag 144. line 37. for Antichristian read great corruption Rom. 15. 1. 1 Iohn 2. 13 14. 1cor 12.31,31.2 Mr Seam●n Mr. V●●●● Mr. Hill Mr Segwick c. Acts 5. 24. Matth. 18. 3. 16. 2● Luk 14. 16. Luk. 14. ●3 Mat. 3. 2 8. Mat 4. 17. Marke 1. 15. Acts 20. 21. P. 11 12 13. See p. 13. Rom. ●6 25 26. Ephes. 1. Pag. 14 15 16. Pag. 17. Pag. 20 21. Pag. 24. Rom. 5. Rom. 11. 28. Heb. 9. 28. 10 12. Rom. 3. Rom. 16. 5 7. Ephes. Psal. 1 Pet. 1. Pag. 43. Pag 81. 32. Pag. 17. Pag. 21. Mr Tombes

Christ and not seeking your own things not making a gaine of godlinesse Whether all your Fastings and Repentance were from true meltings of heart sound humiliation or because the State called for it and constrained it Whether your praying and preaching was not much of it Self of Invention of Parts of Art of Learning of seeking praise from men Oh should the light of the Spirit come in clearnesse and glory upon your spirit Oh! how much of Self of Hypocrisie of Vanity of Flesh of Corruption would appeare how would all be unprofitable For my part I cannot be so uncharitable but to wish you a better assurance then what you and your Brethren can find in your own works or righteousnesse For it is not what we approve but what God approves is accepted And I am perswaded however you are now loth it may be to lose reputation by going out of an old track of Divinity as Luther once yet when once your spirit begins to be unclothed of forms of darknesse and art of self-righteousnesse and that you with open face behold the glory of the Lord you will cry out Wo is me I am undone for I have seen the Lord and Lord depart from me for I am a sinfull creature and What went I out to see My owne unrighteousnesse or rather A Reed shaken with the winde An Answer to a Book intituled A Plea for Congregationall Government or A Defence of the Assemblies Petition c. YOu write thus 1 That the independents confesse you a true Church and Minstery 2 Those that are ordained by Bishops may be true Ministers else how am I a Preacher or they true Ministers 3 Succession is not necessary to the essence of a true Ministery 4 If no true Ministery no true Baptisme 5 Must not there be persons ordaining and persons ordained And so the dissenting Brethren held 6 That you abuse the Assembly in ●●ing their Humble Advice touching the Divine Right of a Congregationall Presbyteriall and not of the other The Independents assert a Divine Right there and in Synods too as they do They hold a Divine Right in one as well as the other 7 Their ordination by Bishops though it should be null yet they have all you can alleadge necessary to a Preacher 8 Parishes here are but as in New-England as in Jerusalem Antioch 9 Some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods an holy Ordinance of God and this Assembly so to be 10 If no Presbyteries must be of Divine Right because not infallibly gifted this concludes against Presbyteries and Ordinances 11 If you would have them content with a mixed power partly prudentiall because of their mixt ●●ointing you contradict that pure one you plead for 12 The Apostles and Elders and Angels of the Churches of Asia were not infallible as in divers practices 13 To say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is little lesse then Blasphemy 14 The Presbyterians in France and Scotland and the Netherlands do 〈◊〉 so imbroyle Kingdoms The feare of excommunicating Parliaments and Kingdoms is but a Bugbeare 15 They aske not of the State an Ecclesiasticall power but a liberty to exercise that power 16 Hath Christ said that in a sound Church Church-Officers shall excommunicate and in an unsound the Magistrate shall do it 17 He may in time say as much against Equity and justice living upon voyces in Assemblies as against Truth Answer To the first That the Independents confesse you a true Church and Ministery You are not to prove what others confesse or hold you to be but what you are indeed according to Truth Nor do I contend with those that hold you so but with you that hold your selves so as the Spirit to the Laodiceans Thou sayest thou art full c. and behold thou art poore c. To the second That they ordained by Bishops are true Ministers as the Independents and I a Preacher for all that Ordination If you meane that the Bishops Ordination makes not one for ever a false or Antichristian Minister I grant it because it is no marke to them that renounce it Babylon is no more Babylon to them that are gone out of it But what is this to your Ministery or Ordination who are yet under the Marke and Babylonish Ordination Renounce it come out as the Spirit cals ye and then your being Antichristian is no more to ye then to the Ephesians that they should be lesse light because they were once darknesse or lesse alive because they were once dead To the third That Succession is not necessary to a true Ministery It is both true and false in severall acceptions When there was a true power they ordained others and others them There was succession But that being lost under Antichrist so far as visibly to derive it to us there can be no such true visible Succession appearing And yet you that pretend to stand by the first power must prove your Succession if you will prove your power To the Fourth If no true Ministery no true Baptism For that as you please I dare not exalt the truth of your Baptism above that of your Ministery no more then you To the Fifth The dissenting Brethren hold there must be persons ordaining and ordained as well as we Ye● but do they hold Bishops ordaining and Presbyters ordained by Bishops and Presbyters of their ordaining ordaining others as you do To the Sixth of my unjust citing the Assemblies Modell or Humble Advice and that there is no more Divine Right asserted in the Congregationall Presbytery then in the Classicall c. which is done so by the dissenting Brethren I answer Let the Modell be printed to the world to end the difference betwixt you and me And for the Divine Right of the one and the other I am of your mind they are able to prove both alike of Divine Right that is in their Presbytery The one is no more of Divine Right then the other and neither of them of any And for the dissenting Brethren it is not them but you I deale with Why come you under their shadow in a storme and yet will let them have no liberty under yours but would turne us all abroad as Hereticks and Schismaticks To the Seventh Though the Ordination by Bishops be null yet they have the other necessaries to a Preacher Will ye undertake for the Assembly they shall stand to this that all their former Ordination by Bishops is null If so we are agreed if not all their other necessaries are no more then Ahabs peace What peace saith Jehu so long as the whoredoms of thy mother Iezebell are alive So what Ministery so long as the whoredoms of Babylon yet remaine To the Eighth That the Parishes are but as in New-England as in Ierusalem c. I pray forbeare this it is too manifest an errour Are the Parishes of England and Churches of Ierusalm one and the same so discipled so constituted Were all of Ierusalem and Antioch

REASONS FOR Vnitie Peace and Love WITH AN ANSWER Called Shadows flying away to a Book of Mr Gataker one of the Assembly intituled A Mistake c. and the Book of the namelesse Author called The Plea both writ against me And a very short ANSWER in a word to a Book by another namelesse Author called An After-reckoning with Master Saltmarsh and to Master Edward his Second Part called Gangrena directed to me Wherein many things of the Spirit are discovered Of Faith and Repentance c. Of the Presbytery And some things are hinted to the undeceiving of people in their present Ministers By John Saltmarsh Preacher of the Gospell Acts 7. 26. Sirs ye are brethren why do ye wrong one to another LONDON Printed for Giles Calvert at the Black Spread-Eagle at the West end of PAULS 1646. Reader IN this Answer to Master Gataker I conceive thou hast a taste of the true Notion both of the sweetnesse and glory of the Gospell Imprimatur IOHN BACHILER May 26. 1646. To the Right Honourable the Lord Maior Aldermen and the Common-Councell of the City of LONDON Right Honourable MAny who call themselves Ministers and Prophets of God accuse us of Heresie and Schism before ye But I hope ye will take notice they are but men as we are and of like passions with us neither Apostles nor Prophets of the first Baptism or gifts of the Spirit Yet if the Priests and Elders or any Oratour as Tertullus accuse Paul to Festus or Agrippa he cannot but a●swer for himselfe I have but few words to speak to ye Noble Citizens That ye would in that Spirit which is of God judge the Doctrines of Men and single them from Traditions Customes Councels Synods Interests Ye are bid to try the spirits whether they be of God or no Try whether it be according to God for some Ministers and thse not Apostles to call others Hereticks who beleeve not as they beleeve What will become then of the strong and weak Christian of the children fathers and young men Trye whether they ought to p●ea●h to ye to suppresse all but themselves since they are not infallible but may erre and where is the Remedy then if they erre Who shall judge the Iudges Try whether this make for unity of spirit to allow no more fellowship nor brotherhood then in forme and practice And what will they have ye do if Formes should alter For States may change England hath done so Try whether this make for the glory of Christians to persecute or banish as they would have ye all but themselves May they not as well tell ye that God hath made England only for men of the Presbytery or one opinion to live in and worship in And where find they that Trye whether some by their daily Invectives from Presse and Pulpit against Independents and others bring not in the Popish Designe in another Forme to divide the godly party both Presbyterian and Independent and so to ruine all Try if all such Doctrine as they commonly preach and write to ye resolve not it selfe most into their own interests profits place power And what doth the Scripture and Histories tell ye of that And now I have done praying for ye That ye may be still a free City and not disputed by the miscelany of Logick and Divinity of some into bondage That ye may be still populous and not your streets growing with grasse through any unneighbourly Principle of Persecution which must needs lose ye many and much resort from this famous City under the name of Hereticks not letting such live beside them That ye may be a peaceable City and not raised up and dashed by any breath of men against the other and greater part of your selves the Parliament England hath long enough broken it selfe against its own walls let it now be our strength to sit still and to stand still and see salvation And since the Lord hath let the most of the successe of the Presbytery which is so much desired come thorow the hands of those and that Army whom they have told ye over often were Hereticks let this be but taken notice on by ye what God hath told ye in the successe of that Army and I trust ye will never regard the Messengers by whose hands the Presbytery in a kind came by beating them out of doores Thus rests he Who would rejoyce in your Peace Prosperity and GOSPELL-unity JOHN SALTMARSH REASONS FOR Vnity Peace Love THe Nations and Kingdoms of the world shall bring their glory to Christ and be at peace with all his according to the Prophesies Isai. 11 6 7 8. Revel. 21. 26. Isai. 49. 23. And how happy is that Nation or Kingdom which shall be first in this truth and have rather a peace of Prophesie than Policie a peace of God than man How happy shall this Kingdom be to fulfill any of this Prophesie of peace to one another and to the Saints That all Kingdoms and Nations and Princes and People prospered according to their love to Christ and his Pharaoh for Ioseph Ahasuerus for Mordecai Artaxerxes for Nehemiah and the people of the Iews and those Nations have been ever nations of bondage and tyranny to themselves which became so first to the Saints That Ierusalem hath been ever a burdensome stone and a cup of trembling to all that oppressed her and the stone cut out of the Mountaine without hands too mighty for all the Mountaines of the world And the bloud of the Saints where-ever spilled and whereever found in literall or mysticall Babylon never left crying till that very place had bloud given them to drink for in her was found the bloud of the Prophets That the true Peace indeed is more spirituall and comprehensive then men usually think it and takes in severall natures nations people languages of every tongue and kindred so severall spirits consciences judgements opinions not a Peace only of such or such an Opinion not a Peace only of such or such a Society of such or such a Body not a Peace of Presbytery only nor Independency only nor Anabaptisme only but a Peace of All so far as that all or many may be one which is that unity of spirit in the bond of peace That true Peace is an enemy to all selfish interest and selfish preservation and selfish unity or selfish peace because that when Unity Peace Preservation gathers up from that common interest Peace and Unity to which they are appointed by the law of Creation and Institution and becomes only their own and not anothers their own peace their own unity their own preservation they breaking that law of the Spirit and Communion of their first Creation each perishes in their single private and unwarrantable way of saving themselves And the eye saith unto the hand I have no need of thee and the head to the foot I have no need of you That there is no such impossibility of being one under divers Opinions

reckoned for Christs Congregations as all Parishes are To the Ninth That some of the dissenting Brethren hold Synods Ordinances of God and this Assembly so I know some of our Brethren for the Presbytery hold Infant-Baptism unlawfull and Antichristian and hath better defended it then any yet whom I have read hath answered it And for this Assembly to be an Ordinance of God I thought that had been but an Ordinance of Parliament and stood by that power by which they were called by at first Yet deny not but that consultations for holy ends about the things of God are lawfull by the Word To the Tenth That Presbyteries because not infallibly gifted are of no Divine Right and so concludes aga●nst all Presbyteries and Ordinances Yea against all your Presbyteries to be of Divine Right as the first But our question is rather whether the first was any such Presbytery as you now affirme and for ought I see you can no more prove the truth of the Presbytery then in the sense you take it then your Presbytery to be one with it one only in Divine Right not in Divine power or gifts And how are these things sutable To the Eleventh That I contradict the pure Government I plead for by pleading for yours as prudentiall It were true indeed if I pleaded it in mine own behalfe I plead it occasionally for them who will needs have what the State cannot in conscience allow them and yet will not practice any other but what the State shall give them and so trouble both the State and their own consciences and would cast a snare upon both Brethren if ye will needs have the State to allow ye your Presbytery Why are ye not content with what they can allow ye If ye will have a Divine Right which they cannot allow ye why do ye trouble them and sit down under a bondage of your own making But how justly is this yoke come upon you who would have brought a worse upon your Brethren To the Twelfth That the first Presbyters and Apostles c. were not infallible as in divers practices What is this to the truth and gifts they taught and taught by They failed as men but not as Apostles They erred as they were Peter and Paul but not as moved by the Holy Ghost Take heed by opening the Apostles failings to justifie your own you speake not worse Blasphemy then you name in me and make that glorious Word of Scripture questionable which they preached like the words that your selves preach from that Scripture To the Thirteenth That to say the Apostles did advise in place of the written Word is Blasphemy What Blasphemy is it to say that the same Word which they writ and preached the same Spirit spake in them and spake the same truth in them which writ in them And is it so with any of your Presbyters Therefore till the same Spirit speak truth in them so as in the first Presbyters will they challenge the same right the same power Will they have a Divine Right acted by a spirit lesse Divine then the Right To the Fourteenth That the Presbyterians in France Scotland and the Netherlands do not embroyle Kingdoms There is good reason in France they cannot if they would I wish you would walke under the Magistrate as they do and as your dissenting Brethren here and not make him serve you And in the Netherlands do you as they do there and leave your Brethren to the like liberty that is in that State and they will not grudge ye your Presbytery amongst your selves For Scotland they are Brethren I wish no worse to then Truth and Peace and power above their Ministers To that of excommunicating kingdoms being a bugbear You do well to say so till ye be established but you that dare so capitulate with States whom ye are called to advise in things onely propounded what more may be expected upon all your principles I leave to be judged To the Fifteenth That they aske not of the State a power but a liberty to exercise that power Well and will ye trouble the State no further Will ye not intreat them to punish such a one and such a one whom ye judge an Hereticke and a Schismaticke to fine and imprison when you have done with them at Excommunication May the State be quiet if they say to ye go all that are so perswaded as you are and worship and practise as your dissenting brethren and other Saints and trouble not us to provide for your Tythes and Rule for you in things of your own cognizance over Consciences But you would onely have liberty from them your power is of Christ But you cannot so cleare things as you thinke If your power and liberty respectively to your selves and the Magistrate be so distinct why have ye mingled them and confounded them all this while Why make ye the truth and power ye have from Christ wait so at Parliament-doores as Master Case said if the powers on earth will not do for Christ as you would make the people beleeve Why do not ye your selves more for Christ Is it better to obey God or man Thus the more ye would single your selves in your power and right from the Magistrate the more your practice makes an argument against ye To the Sixteenth That I should say In a sound Church Church-officers shall excommunicate and judge of offences and in an unsound the Magistrate and the Inference there I answer I spake and writ so according to your principles not to my owne Nor can I see how you can chalenge such a one entire and simple Discipline exclusively to the Magistrate upon no more true pure and Scripture-principles then your present Presbytery is And I conceive the powers on earth or in the world have to do in every Government that is more of the world then of Christ For if ye exclude them from a part in that Government which is partly prudential and of man you exclude them from off part of their owne Kingdome which is theirs by inheritance and of more Divine Right then I conceive yours to be And whereas you would make us beleeve you stand onely in a pure Gospel strength and power and desire no more of the Magistrate but liberty can this be so in truth when all is esteemed invalid and nothing if the Magistrates power doth not actuate the Ministers power I know you may distinguish of powers Scholastically and Spheres of working for those powers and so tell the Magistrate and us he doth but act in his Sphere when he acts in yours and indeed acts yours making it to be stronger then it is in it selfe But is not his Civil power that which puts life as you think into all your Presbytery Yet he must think he doth but as a Magistrate still as if so be that the Magistrate were made to be rods in the hands of the Church and Swords to be drawn by them and Iron whips at their