&_o vicarius_fw-la christi_fw-la be_v not_o these_o the_o most_o common_a title_n that_o papist_n give_v they_o and_o that_o they_o take_v unto_o themselves_o nay_o look_v back_o into_o your_o own_o paper_n here_o pag._n 6._o whether_o you_o say_v not_o that_o they_o be_v institute_v governor_n in_o christ_n place_n of_o his_o whole_a visible_a church_n 2._o do_v not_o bellarmine_n as_o i_o have_v cite_v elsewhere_o labour_v to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v not_o as_o a_o apostle_n that_o the_o pope_n succeed_v peter_n but_o as_o a_o head_n of_o the_o church_n in_o christ_n stead_n do_v not_o boverius_n cite_v in_o my_o key_n labour_v to_o prove_v he_o the_o vicar_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o be_v vice_n christi_n and_o what_o fit_a english_a have_v we_o for_o the_o king_n deputy_n in_o a_o distant_a kingdom_n who_o be_v vice_n regis_n than_o the_o vice-king_n or_o a_o chancellor_n deputy_n then_o the_o vicechancellor_n vice_n christi_n be_v your_o own_o common_a word_n and_o vicarius_fw-la christi_fw-la none_o more_o common_a scarce_o than_o the_o latter_a and_o what_o english_a be_v there_o fit_a for_o this_o than_o the_o vice-christ_n or_o vicar_n of_o christ_n it_o be_v indeed_o the_o very_a term_n that_o express_v proper_o as_o man_n can_v speak_v the_o true_a point_n and_o life_n of_o the_o controversy_n between_o we_o and_o how_o can_v you_o suffer_v your_o pen_n to_o set_v down_o that_o the_o pope_n do_v never_o accept_v of_o this_o when_o it_o be_v their_o own_o common_a phrase_n vice_n christi_n &_o vicarius_fw-la christi_fw-la but_o here_o again_o remember_v and_o let_v it_o be_v a_o witness_n against_o you_o that_o you_o dislike_v and_o utter_o disclaim_v the_o very_a name_n that_o signify_v the_o papal_a power_n as_o proud_a and_o insolent_a and_o if_o you_o abhor_v popery_n while_o you_o entice_v man_n to_o it_o let_v my_o soul_n abhor_v it_o and_o let_v all_o that_o regard_v their_o soul_n abhor_v it_o bless_a be_v that_o light_n that_o have_v bring_v it_o to_o be_v number_v with_o the_o work_n of_o darkness_n be_v it_o not_o more_o tedious_a than_o necessary_a i_o will_v cite_v you_o the_o word_n vice_n christi_n &_o vicarius_fw-la christi_fw-la out_o of_o pope_n and_o multitude_n of_o your_o writer_n but_o alas_o that_o be_v not_o the_o high_a the_o vice-god_n be_v a_o title_n that_o they_o have_v not_o think_v insolent_a or_o word_n of_o the_o same_o signification_n will_v you_o have_v my_o proof_n pardon_v it_o then_o for_o prove_v your_o pen_n so_o false_a and_o deceitful_a that_o be_v not_o my_o fault_n pope_n julius_n the_o second_o in_o his_o general_n council_n at_o the_o lateran_n say_v cont._n pragmat_n sanct_a monitor_fw-la binnius_n vol._n 4._o pag._n 560._o though_o the_o institution_n of_o sacred_a canon_n holy_a father_n and_o pope_n of_o rome_n and_o their_o decree_n be_v judge_v immutable_a as_o make_v by_o divine_a inspiration_n yet_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n who_o though_o of_o unequal_a merit_n hold_v the_o place_n of_o the_o eternal_a king_n and_o the_o maker_n of_o all_o thing_n and_o all_o law_n on_o earth_n may_v abrogate_v these_o decree_n when_o they_o be_v abuse_v here_o from_o your_o judge_n of_o faith_n itself_o you_o hear_v that_o the_o pope_n hold_v the_o place_n of_o the_o eternal_a king_n the_o maker_n of_o all_o thing_n and_o law_n pope_n sixtus_n quartus_fw-la in_o passagio_fw-la sive_fw-la bulla_n contra_fw-la turcos_n send_v to_o philip_n palatine_n elector_n 1481._o in_o breheri_n tom._n 2._o pag._n 162._o vol._n 2._o say_v vniversos_fw-la christianos_n principes_fw-la ac_fw-la omnes_fw-la christi_fw-la fiddle_n requirere_fw-la eisque_fw-la mandare_fw-la vice_n dei_fw-la cujus_fw-la locâ—m_fw-la quamviâ—_n immeriti_fw-la tenemus_fw-la in_o terris_fw-la that_o be_v we_o be_v constrain_v to_o require_v all_o christian_a prince_n and_o all_o believer_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o command_v they_o in_o the_o stead_n of_o god_n who_o place_n on_o earth_n we_o hold_v though_o undeserving_a here_o be_v a_o vice-god_n hold_v his_o place_n on_o earth_n and_o command_v all_o prince_n and_o christian_n to_o a_o war_n against_o the_o turk_n in_o god_n stead_n i_o know_v to_o a_o particular_a people_n god_n ambassador_n be_v say_v to_o speak_v in_o his_o name_n and_o stead_n as_o if_o god_n do_v beseech_v man_n by_o we_o 2_o cor._n 5.19_o but_o this_o be_v only_o as_o to_o a_o narrow_a and_o limit_a embassage_n not_o that_o they_o hold_v god_n place_n on_o earth_n as_o ruler_n over_o the_o universal_a church_n etc._n etc._n the_o same_o pope_n sixtus_n 4_o say_v ibid._n pag._n 163._o sola_fw-la superest_fw-la romana_fw-la sedes_fw-la sedes_fw-la utique_fw-la immaculati_fw-la agni_fw-la sedes_fw-la viventis_fw-la in_o secula_fw-la seculorum_fw-la haec_fw-la quip_n praedictas_fw-la patriarchale_n genuit_fw-la ecclesias_fw-la quae_fw-la quasi_fw-la filiae_fw-la in_o ejus_fw-la gremio_fw-la residebant_fw-la &_o in_o circuitu_fw-la tanquam_fw-la famulae_fw-la in_o ipsius_fw-la adsistebant_fw-la obsequio_fw-la that_o be_v only_o the_o roman_a seat_n remain_v even_o the_o seat_n of_o the_o immaculate_a lamb_n the_o seat_n of_o he_o that_o live_v for_o ever_o my_o flesh_n tremble_v to_o write_v these_o thing_n this_o do_v beget_v the_o foresay_a patriarchal_a church_n notorious_a falsehood_n which_o rest_v as_o daughter_n in_o her_o bosom_n and_o as_o servant_n stand_v about_o in_o her_o obedience_n here_o you_o see_v from_o the_o pope_n himself_o that_o the_o other_o patriarch_n be_v his_o servant_n and_o so_o to_o obey_v he_o and_o that_o rome_n beget_v they_o all_o that_o be_v before_o it_o except_o constantinople_n and_o neither_o make_a christian_n nor_o patriarch_n by_o it_o and_o that_o rome_n be_v now_o become_v the_o seat_n of_o the_o immaculate_a lamb_n and_o of_o he_o that_o live_v for_o ever_o true_o the_o read_n of_o your_o own_o historian_n and_o the_o pope_n bull_n etc._n etc._n have_v more_o persuade_v i_o that_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n than_o the_o apocalypse_n have_v do_v because_o i_o disinherit_v my_o understanding_n of_o it_o benedictus_fw-la de_fw-la benedictis_fw-la write_v a_o book_n against_o dr._n whittaker_n to_o prove_v that_o it_o be_v as_o false_a that_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n as_o that_o christ_n be_v antichrist_n and_o dedicate_v it_o to_o pope_n paul_n 5._o with_o this_o inscription_n paul_n 5._o vice_n deo_fw-la to_o paul_n 5._o the_o vice-god_n print_v at_o bononia_n 1608._o caraffa_n thesis_n print_v at_o naples_n 1609._o have_v the_o same_o inscription_n paulo_n 5._o vice_n deo_n to_o paul_n 5._o the_o vice-god_n alcazar_n in_o apocal._n in_o carmine_fw-la ad_fw-la johannem_fw-la apostolum_n say_v of_o the_o same_o pope_n paul_n 5._o qâ—em_fw-la numinis_fw-la instar_fw-la vera_fw-la colit_fw-la pietas_fw-la who_o as_o a_o god_n true_a piety_n adore_v christopher_z marcellus_n in_o his_o oration_n before_o pope_n julius_n 2._o in_o the_o approve_a council_n at_o lateran_n sess._n 4._o and_o you_o take_v not_o contradict_v to_o be_v consent_v and_o very_o to_o such_o blasphemy_n in_o a_o council_n so_o it_o be_v say_v thus_o quum_fw-la tantae_fw-la reipublicae_fw-la unicus_fw-la atque_fw-la supremus_fw-la princeps_fw-la fueris_fw-la institutus_fw-la beatissime_fw-la pontifex_fw-la cui_fw-la summa_fw-la data_fw-la potestas_fw-la ad_fw-la divinum_fw-la injunctum_fw-la imperium_fw-la etc._n etc._n &_o ante_fw-la sub_fw-la tuo_fw-la imperio_fw-la &_o vnus_fw-la princeps_fw-la qui_fw-la summam_fw-la in_o terris_fw-la habeat_fw-la potestatem_fw-la but_o these_o be_v small_a thing_n teque_fw-la omnis_fw-la aevi_fw-la omnium_fw-la seculorum_fw-la omnium_fw-la gentium_fw-la principem_fw-la &_o caput_fw-la appellant_n but_o yet_o the_o prince_n and_o head_n of_o all_o age_n and_o nation_n be_v too_o low_o cura_fw-la pater_fw-la beatissime_fw-la ut_fw-la sponsae_fw-la tuus_fw-la forma_fw-la decórque_fw-la redeat_fw-la but_o yet_o to_o make_v the_o church_n his_o spouse_n be_v nothing_o cura_fw-la denique_fw-la ut_fw-la salutem_fw-la quam_fw-la dedisti_fw-la nobis_fw-la &_o vitam_fw-la &_o spiritum_fw-la non_fw-la amittamus_fw-la tu_fw-la enim_fw-la pastor_n tu_fw-la medice_fw-la tu_fw-la gubernator_fw-la tu_fw-la cultor_fw-la tu_fw-la denique_fw-la alter_fw-la deus_fw-la in_o terris_fw-la that_o be_v see_v that_o we_o lâ—se_v not_o the_o health_n that_o thou_o have_v give_v we_o and_o the_o life_n and_o spirit_n for_o thou_o be_v the_o pâ—stor_n the_o physician_n to_o conclude_v thou_o be_v another_o god_n on_o earth_n if_o you_o say_v that_o the_o pope_n accept_v not_o this_o i_o answer_v it_o be_v in_o a_o oration_n speak_v in_o a_o general_n council_n in_o his_o presence_n without_o contradiction_n yea_o by_o his_o own_o command_n as_o the_o orator_n profess_v jussisti_fw-la tu_fw-la pater_fw-la sancte_fw-la &_o parui_fw-la you_o command_v i_o holy_a father_n and_o i_o obey_v binnius_n pag._n 562_o 563_o 564._o you_o may_v find_v all_o this_o in_o glâ—ss_n extrav_fw-mi g._n joan._n 22._o de_fw-fr verb._n signific_a câ—p_n cum_fw-la inter_fw-la in_o glâ—ssa_n credere_fw-la dominum_fw-la nâ—strum_fw-la dâ—um_fw-la papam_fw-la conditorem_fw-la dictae_fw-la decretalis_fw-la &_o
protestant_n be_v chief_a member_n be_v clear_o prove_v and_o the_o papist_n exception_n against_o it_o confute_v london_n print_v in_o the_o year_n 1660._o qu._n whether_o the_o church_n of_o which_o the_o protestant_n be_v member_n have_v be_v visible_a ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n aff._n the_o term_n explain_v 1._o the_o church_n sometime_o signify_v a_o particular_a congregation_n actual_o meet_v or_o associate_v for_o such_o personal_a meeting_n for_o communion_n in_o god_n worship_n 2._o sometime_o it_o signify_v a_o association_n of_o church_n and_o that_o either_o of_o sewer_n or_o of_o more_o as_o they_o have_v opportunity_n of_o communion_n or_o correspondency_n by_o their_o pastor_n and_o also_o the_o assembly_n of_o the_o pastor_n of_o the_o particular_a church_n so_o associate_v scripture_n use_v it_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n and_o late_a custom_n whether_o scripture_n also_o i_o omit_v in_o the_o late_a 3._o both_o scripture_n and_o custom_n have_v use_v the_o word_n to_o signify_v the_o church_n universal_a of_o which_o all_o particular_a church_n be_v member_n this_o be_v the_o church_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o in_o the_o question_n defin._n the_o universal_a church_n of_o which_o the_o protestant_n profess_v themselves_o member_n be_v the_o kingdom_n of_o jesus_n christ_n or_o the_o whole_a company_n of_o believer_n or_o true_a christian_n upon_o earth_n subject_v to_o jesus_n christ_n their_o head_n the_o constitutive_a part_n or_o the_o relate_v and_o correlate_n be_v as_o in_o every_o politic_a body_n the_o parson_n imperans_fw-la and_o pars_fw-la subdita_fw-la which_o be_v christ_n and_o christian_n the_o form_n consist_v in_o the_o mutual_a relation_n the_o end_n be_v the_o common_a good_a of_o the_o church_n and_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o head_n and_o the_o accomplishment_n of_o the_o will_n of_o god_n 2._o the_o protestant_n defin._n protestant_n be_v christian_n protest_v against_o or_o disow_a popery_n the_o word_n protestant_n express_v not_o the_o essence_n of_o our_o religion_n and_o therefore_o it_o must_v not_o denominate_v the_o universal_a church_n of_o which_o we_o be_v member_n we_o be_v not_o to_o call_v it_o a_fw-la protestant_n universal_a church_n nor_o do_v it_o signify_v a_o inseparable_a proper_a accident_n for_o when_o the_o catholic_n church_n have_v no_o popery_n there_o be_v none_o to_o protest_v against_o and_o therefore_o there_o can_v be_v no_o protestant_n and_o ethiopia_n india_n and_o other_o nation_n that_o never_o have_v popery_n or_o those_o nation_n that_o never_o hear_v of_o it_o have_v no_o occasion_n to_o protest_v against_o it_o nor_o do_v it_o signify_v any_o positive_a part_n direct_o of_o our_o religion_n but_o only_o the_o negation_n or_o rejection_n of_o popery_n even_o as_o when_o a_o man_n be_v call_v homo_fw-la purgatus_fw-la sanatus_fw-la liberatus_fw-la à _fw-la leprâ_fw-la peste_fw-la tabe_fw-la etc._n etc._n a_o man_n purge_v heal_v free_v from_o the_o leprosy_n plague_n consumption_n etc._n etc._n it_o be_v no_o positive_a part_n nor_o inseparable_a proper_a accident_n much_o less_o any_o essential_a part_n of_o the_o man_n that_o be_v signify_v by_o the_o word_n heal_v purge_v etc._n etc._n nor_o be_v it_o necessary_a in_o order_n to_o the_o prove_v he_o a_o man_n or_o a_o healthful_a man_n to_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v ever_o he_o purge_v or_o heal_v man_n we_o undertake_v not_o therefore_o to_o prove_v that_o there_o have_v be_v always_o protestant_n that_o be_v man_n protest_v against_o popery_n nor_o have_v we_o any_o need_n in_o order_n to_o the_o proof_n of_o our_o thesis_n to_o prove_v that_o the_o catholic_n church_n have_v all_o be_v free_a from_o popery_n in_o all_o age_n or_o in_o any_o age_n since_o the_o apostle_n no_o more_o than_o that_o it_o have_v be_v free_a from_o pride_n ambition_n or_o contention_n but_o yet_o we_o shall_v do_v it_o ex_fw-la abundanti_fw-la the_o religion_n then_o of_o a_o protestant_n be_v christianity_n and_o he_o know_v and_o ow_v no_o other_o which_o be_v call_v the_o protestant_n religion_n as_o cleanse_v from_o popery_n member_n that_o be_v true_a integral_a part_n of_o which_o be_v by_o profession_n we_o profess_v ourselves_o to_o be_v of_o no_o other_o church_n and_o before_o man_n a_o man_n be_v to_o be_v take_v to_o be_v of_o that_o religion_n and_o church_n of_o which_o he_o profess_v himself_o to_o be_v till_o he_o be_v prove_v false_a in_o that_o profession_n if_o a_o papist_n affirm_v himself_o a_o member_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o dispute_v with_o he_o we_o will_v take_v it_o for_o grant_v that_o he_o be_v so_o every_o man_n be_v best_o acquaint_v with_o his_o own_o mind_n and_o fit_a to_o describe_v the_o religion_n which_o he_o own_v so_o that_o two_o thing_n i_o here_o include_v 1._o it_o be_v only_o such_o a_o catholic_n church_n that_o have_v be_v still_o visible_a that_o protestant_n own_o 2._o and_o only_o such_o that_o real_o they_o be_v of_o their_o profession_n be_v valid_a note_v also_o that_o it_o be_v not_o direct_o the_o inexistency_n by_o internal_a invisible_a faith_n that_o be_v in_o question_n among_o we_o or_o that_o i_o mean_v but_o the_o inexistency_n by_o external_a visible_a profession_n bellarmine_n think_v the_o bare_a professor_n that_o be_v wicked_a be_v best_a term_v dead_n member_n and_o the_o true_a professor_n living_n member_n we_o will_v not_o stick_v needless_o on_o word_n we_o take_v the_o live_a member_n only_o to_o be_v in_o strict_a propriety_n member_n but_o sincerity_n and_o hypocrisy_n be_v know_v only_o to_o god_n and_o the_o possessor_n we_o speak_v of_o professor_n as_o professor_n abstractive_o from_o their_o sincerity_n or_o hypocrisy_n have_v be_v visible_a 1._o not_o visible_a to_o man_n in_o its_o internal_a faith_n but_o in_o its_o external_a profession_n 2._o not_o visible_a at_o once_o to_o any_o one_o man_n for_o no_o man_n can_v see_v all_o the_o christian_a world_n at_o once_o but_o visible_a in_o its_o part_n both_o in_o congregation_n and_o individual_a person_n 3._o not_o visible_a in_o the_o soundness_n of_o its_o profess_a faith_n unto_o infidel_n and_o heretic_n for_o they_o can_v see_v that_o faith_n to_o be_v sound_n which_o they_o take_v to_o be_v fabulous_a and_o false_a but_o visible_a in_o the_o soundness_n of_o its_o profess_a faith_n to_o themselves_o that_o know_v the_o soundness_n of_o faith_n 4._o not_o visible_a in_o the_o excellent_a degree_n of_o soundness_n in_o the_o better_a part_n unto_o the_o corrupter_n or_o infirmer_n part_n for_o though_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la they_o may_v know_v what_o doctrine_n the_o better_a part_n do_v hold_v as_o infidel_n know_v what_o doctrine_n the_o church_n hold_v yet_o they_o know_v it_o not_o to_o be_v true_a and_o sound_a in_o the_o point_n wherein_o they_o differ_v and_o note_v again_o that_o it_o be_v not_o the_o visibility_n of_o every_o accident_n of_o the_o church_n nor_o of_o every_o truth_n or_o duty_n that_o be_v but_o of_o the_o integrity_n of_o religion_n and_o necessary_a only_a ad_fw-la melius_fw-la esse_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la to_o the_o better_o be_v of_o the_o church_n but_o it_o be_v the_o visibility_n of_o the_o church_n that_o we_o speak_v of_o last_o it_o be_v the_o body_n and_o not_o the_o head_n who_o visibility_n be_v in_o question_n by_o we_o though_o the_o head_n also_o be_v true_o visible_a in_o heaven_n and_o visus_n or_o see_v to_o the_o most_o excellent_a triumphant_a part_n of_o his_o body_n who_o be_v fit_a to_o be_v his_o courtier_n and_o in_o his_o presence_n and_o as_o much_o see_v on_o earth_n as_o the_o pope_n be_v to_o most_o of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v not_o at_o all_o ever_o since_o the_o day_n of_o christ_n on_o earth_n 1._o but_o not_o still_o in_o one_o and_o the_o same_o place_n on_o earth_n it_o may_v be_v in_o one_o age_n much_o of_o it_o in_o judea_n at_o ephesus_n sardis_n laodicaea_n colosse_n philippi_n and_o other_o part_n of_o asia_n and_o in_o other_o age_n remove_v thence_o either_o whole_o or_o for_o the_o most_o part_n it_o may_v be_v in_o one_o age_n in_o tenduâ—_n nâ—bia_n and_o other_o great_a kingdom_n where_o it_o shall_v afâ—er_o cease_v to_o be_v but_o in_o some_o part_n or_o other_o of_o the_o earth_n it_o have_v be_v still_o 2._o not_o equal_o visible_a in_o all_o time_n and_o place_n of_o the_o earth_n in_o some_o time_n as_o in_o the_o arrian_n prevalency_n it_o be_v so_o oppress_v and_o obscure_v that_o the_o world_n groan_v to_o find_v itself_o turn_v arrian_n and_o the_o arrian_n in_o general_a council_n and_o number_n of_o bishop_n to_o who_o the_o true_a christian_n be_v very_o few_o do_v seem_v to_o carry_v away_o the_o name_n and_o glory_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n so_o that_o in_o their_o eye_n and_o in_o the_o eye_n of_o slander_n by_o that_o be_v of_o neither_o
peter_n etc._n etc._n ut_fw-la supra_fw-la sir_n to_o comply_v with_o your_o desire_n of_o brevity_n and_o of_o confine_v myself_o to_o half_a a_o sheet_n of_o paper_n i_o send_v you_o at_o present_a only_o one_o argument_n which_o be_v full_o discuss_v shall_v be_v follow_v by_o other_o god_n willing_a to_o this_o as_o to_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o my_o argument_n which_o may_v hereafter_o be_v urge_v i_o require_v a_o categorical_a and_o strict_a sylogistical_a answer_n in_o form_n by_o concedo_fw-la nego_fw-la distinguo_fw-la omitto_fw-la transeat_fw-la and_o the_o particular_a proposition_n specify_v to_o which_o the_o respondent_n apply_v any_o of_o they_o and_o no_o more_o then_o precise_o thus_o neither_o add_v amplification_n reason_n proof_n etc._n etc._n of_o their_o own_o out_o of_o form_n and_o that_o this_o may_v be_v do_v with_o all_o convenient_a speed_n to_o the_o place_n of_o scripture_n ephes._n 4._o etc._n etc._n be_v also_o require_v a_o categorical_a answer_n to_o what_o be_v precise_o press_v in_o it_o without_o direct_v the_o discourse_n to_o other_o thing_n and_o what_o be_v answer_v otherwise_o i_o shall_v not_o esteem_v a_o answer_n but_o a_o effugium_fw-la or_o decline_v of_o the_o difficulty_n by_o this_o method_n exact_o observe_v truth_n will_v easy_o and_o speedy_o be_v make_v manifest_a and_o your_o desire_n of_o brevity_n will_v be_v punctual_o comply_v with_o i_o also_o desire_n that_o the_o respondent_fw-la or_o respondent_n will_v as_o i_o do_v to_o this_o subscribe_v his_o or_o their_o name_n or_o name_n to_o their_o answer_n so_o often_o as_o any_o be_v by_o he_o or_o they_o return_v with_o the_o day_n of_o the_o month_n when_o return_v william_n johnson_n decem._n 9_o 1658_o the_o answer_n to_o the_o first_o paper_n i_o receive_v you_o and_o write_v this_o answer_n jan._n 4._o 1658._o sir_n whoever_o you_o be_v a_o serious_a debate_n with_o so_o sober_a a_o disputant_n be_v to_o i_o a_o exceed_o acceptable_a employment_n i_o shall_v not_o i_o hope_v give_v you_o any_o cause_n to_o say_v that_o i_o decline_v any_o difficulty_n or_o halk_v your_o strength_n or_o transgress_v the_o part_n of_o a_o respondent_fw-la but_o because_o 1._o you_o have_v not_o as_o you_o ought_v to_o have_v do_v explain_v the_o term_n of_o your_o thesis_n 2._o and_o have_v make_v your_o proposition_n so_o long_o 3._o and_o have_v so_o cunning_o lap_v up_o your_o fallacy_n your_o respondent_fw-la be_v necessitate_v to_o be_v the_o large_a in_o distinction_n and_o explication_n and_o see_v you_o be_v so_o instant_a with_o i_o for_o strictness_n you_o thereby_o oblige_v yourself_o if_o you_o will_v be_v ingenuous_a to_o make_v only_o the_o learned_a and_o not_o any_o ignorant_a man_n the_o judge_n of_o our_o dispute_n because_o you_o know_v that_o to_o the_o unlearned_a a_o bare_a nego_fw-la signify_v nothing_o but_o when_o such_o have_v read_v your_o argument_n at_o length_n they_o will_v expect_v as_o plain_a and_o large_a a_o confutation_n or_o judge_v you_o to_o be_v in_o the_o right_n for_o speak_v most_o to_o your_o argument_n 1._o your_o conclusion_n contain_v not_o your_o thesis_n or_o question_n and_o so_o you_o give_v up_o your_o cause_n the_o first_o step_n and_o make_v a_o new_a one_o it_o shall_v have_v contain_v your_o question_n in_o term_n and_o it_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o contain_v it_o in_o the_o plain_a sense_n so_o much_o difference_n be_v there_o between_o assembly_n of_o christian_n unite_v etc._n etc._n and_o congregation_n of_o christian_n and_o between_o salvation_n or_o the_o church_n never_o be_v in_o any_o other_o than_o those_o assembly_n and_o no_o salvation_n out_o of_o that_o congregation_n as_o i_o shall_v show_v you_o beside_o other_o difference_n which_o you_o may_v see_v ad_fw-la majorem_fw-la resp._n 1_o by_o congregation_n you_o mean_v either_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n unite_v in_o christ_n or_o some_o particular_a congregation_n which_o be_v but_o part_n of_o that_o whole_a in_o the_o latter_a sense_n your_o subject_n have_v a_o false_a supposition_n viz._n that_o a_o part_n be_v the_o whole_a and_o your_o minor_n will_v be_v false_a and_o your_o whatsoever_o congregation_n of_o christian_n seem_v to_o distinguish_v that_o from_o some_o other_o exclude_v congregation_n of_o christian_n that_o be_v not_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o be_v a_o suppose_v the_o chief_a part_n of_o the_o question_n grant_v you_o which_o we_o deny_v we_o know_v no_o universal_a congregation_n of_o christian_n but_o one_o which_o contain_v all_o particular_a congregation_n and_o christian_n the_o univocal_o deserve_v that_o name_n 2._o either_o you_o mean_v that_o this_o whole_a congregation_n or_o true_a church_n acknowledge_v the_o pope_n sovereignty_n or_o else_o that_o some_o part_n of_o it_o do_v acknowledge_v it_o the_o former_a i_o deny_v and_o challenge_v any_o man_n live_v to_o prove_v if_o it_o be_v part_n only_o that_o you_o mean_v then_o either_o the_o great_a part_n or_o the_o lesser_a that_o it_o be_v the_o great_a i_o as_o confident_o almost_o deny_v for_o it_o be_v against_o the_o common_a knowledge_n of_o man_n acquaint_v with_o the_o world_n etc._n etc._n if_o you_o mean_v the_o lesser_a part_n you_o shall_v see_v anon_o that_o it_o destroy_v your_o cause_n 3._o either_o you_o speak_v de_fw-fr ecclesia_fw-la quae_fw-la talis_fw-la or_o de_fw-fr ecclesia_fw-la qua_fw-la talis_fw-la and_o mean_v that_o this_o acknowledgement_n be_v essential_a to_o it_o or_o at_o least_o a_o inseparable_a property_n or_o else_o that_o it_o be_v separable_a accident_n the_o latter_a will_v do_v you_o no_o good_a the_o former_a i_o deny_v in_o sum_n i_o grant_v that_o a_o small_a corrupt_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n do_v now_o acknowledge_v the_o pope_n to_o be_v christ_n vicar_n or_o the_o vice-christ_n but_o i_o deny_v 1._o that_o the_o whole_a do_v so_o which_o be_v your_o great_a cause_n 2._o or_o the_o major_a part_n 3._o or_o any_o congregation_n through_o all_o age_n though_o if_o they_o have_v it_o will_v do_v you_o no_o good_a 4._o or_o that_o it_o be_v do_v by_o any_o upon_o just_a ground_n but_o be_v their_o corruption_n ad_fw-la minorem_fw-la resp._n 1_o if_o you_o mean_v any_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n by_o that_o congregation_n which_o be_v now_o the_o true_a church_n i_o deny_v your_o minor_a if_o the_o who_o will_v i_o grant_v it_o 2._o you_o say_v all_o christian_n agree_v in_o it_o etc._n etc._n resp._n i_o think_v all_o protestant_n or_o near_o all_o do_v but_o franciscus_n à _fw-la sancta_fw-la clara_n have_v copious_o tell_v we_o in_o artic._n anglic._n that_o most_o of_o your_o own_o doctor_n be_v for_o the_o salvation_n of_o infidel_n and_o then_o either_o you_o take_v infidel_n for_o your_o church_n member_n or_o your_o doctor_n for_o no_o christian_n or_o you_o play_v not_o fair_a play_n to_o tell_v we_o so_o gross_a a_o untruth_n that_o all_o christian_n be_v agree_v in_o it_o to_o your_o conclusion_n resp._n 1_o either_o you_o mean_v that_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n to_o be_v have_v out_o of_o that_o universal_a church_n who_o part_n a_o minor_a corrupt_a part_n acknowledge_v the_o pope_n sovereignty_n or_o else_o that_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n to_o be_v have_v out_o of_o that_o universal_a church_n which_o whole_o acknowledge_v it_o or_o else_o that_o there_o be_v no_o salvation_n to_o be_v have_v out_o of_o that_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n which_o acknowledge_v it_o in_o the_o first_o sense_n i_o grant_v your_o conclusion_n if_o real_o you_o be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n there_o be_v no_o salvation_n to_o be_v have_v out_o of_o christ_n universal_a church_n of_o which_o you_o be_v small_a corrupt_a part_n in_o the_o second_o sense_n i_o tell_v you_o we_o deny_v the_o supposition_n in_o the_o subject_n in_o the_o three_o sense_n i_o deny_v the_o sequel_n non_fw-la sequitur_fw-la because_o your_o major_a proposition_n be_v false_a de_fw-fr ecclesia_fw-la universali_fw-la the_o conclusion_n must_v be_v false_a de_fw-fr parte_fw-la ista_fw-la as_o exclude_v the_o rest_n but_o to_o the_o unskilful_a or_o unwary_a reader_n your_o conclusion_n seem_v to_o import_v that_o the_o being_n in_o such_o a_o church_n which_o acknowledge_v the_o pope_n sovereignty_n as_o it_o be_v such_o a_o church_n be_v necessary_a to_o salvation_n and_o so_o that_o the_o person_n acknowledgement_n be_v necessary_a but_o it_o be_v a_o fallacia_fw-la accidentis_fw-la cunning_o leap_v up_o that_o be_v the_o life_n of_o your_o import_v cause_n that_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n do_v hold_v to_o the_o pope_n sovereignty_n be_v per_fw-la accidens_fw-la and_o can_v you_o prove_v that_o the_o whole_a church_n do_v so_o which_o you_o be_v unlike_a to_o do_v i_o will_v say_v the_o like_a and_o that_o your_o fallacy_n may_v the_o better_o appear_v i_o give_v you_o some_o example_n of_o such_o like_a sophism_n whatsoever_o nation_n be_v the_o true_a kingdom_n of_o
fair_a remember_v it_o hereafter_o that_o you_o have_v discharge_v i_o from_o prove_v a_o church_n that_o deny_v the_o papacy_n formal_o &_o express_o but_o as_o to_o what_o you_o yet_o demand_v 1._o i_o have_v here_o give_v it_o you_o because_o you_o shall_v not_o say_v â—'le_n sail_v you_o i_o have_v answer_v your_o desire_n but_o 2._o it_o be_v not_o as_o a_o thing_n necessary_a but_o ex_fw-la abundanti_fw-la as_o a_o overplus_n for_o you_o may_v now_o see_v plain_o that_o to_o prove_v that_o the_o church_n be_v without_o a_o universal_a pastor_n which_o you_o require_v be_v to_o prove_v the_o negative_a viz._n that_o then_o there_o be_v none_o such_o whereas_o be_v you_o that_o must_v prove_v that_o there_o be_v such_o i_o prove_v our_o religion_n do_v you_o prove_v you_o though_o i_o say_v to_o pleasure_v you_o i_o will_v disprove_v it_o and_o have_v do_v it_o in_o two_o book_n already_o my_o reason_n from_o the_o stress_n of_o necessity_n which_o you_o lay_v on_o your_o affirmative_a and_o addition_n be_v but_o subservient_fw-fr to_o the_o forego_n reason_n not_o first_o to_o prove_v you_o bind_v but_o to_o prove_v you_o the_o more_o bind_v to_o the_o proof_n of_o your_o affirmative_a and_o therefore_o your_o instance_n of_o mahumetan_n be_v impertinent_a he_o that_o say_v you_o shall_v be_v damn_v if_o you_o believe_v not_o this_o or_o that_o be_v more_o oblige_v to_o prove_v it_o than_o he_o that_o affirm_v a_o point_n as_o of_o no_o such_o moment_n to_o what_o i_o say_v of_o a_o accident_n and_o a_o corrupt_a part_n you_o say_v you_o have_v answer_v and_o do_v but_o say_v so_o have_v say_v nothing_o to_o it_o that_o be_v considerable_a i_o think_v you_o that_o make_v christ_n to_o be_v corporal_o present_a in_o every_o church_n in_o the_o eucharist_n shall_v not_o say_v that_o the_o king_n of_o the_o church_n be_v absent_a but_o when_o you_o have_v prove_v 1._o that_o christ_n be_v so_o absent_a from_o his_o church_n that_o there_o be_v need_n of_o a_o deputy_n to_o essentiate_v his_o kingdom_n and_o 2._o that_o the_o pope_n be_v so_o depute_a you_o will_v have_v do_v more_o than_o be_v yet_o do_v for_o your_o cause_n and_o yet_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o that_o in_o the_o absence_n of_o a_o king_n it_o be_v only_o the_o king_n and_o subject_n that_o be_v essential_a to_o the_o kingdom_n the_o deputy_n be_v but_o a_o officer_n and_o not_o essential_a your_o naked_a assertion_n that_o whatsoever_o government_n christ_n institute_v of_o his_o church_n must_v be_v essential_a to_o his_o church_n be_v no_o proof_n nor_o like_o the_o task_n of_o a_o opponent_n the_o government_n of_o inferior_a officer_n be_v not_o essential_a to_o the_o universal_a church_n no_o more_o than_o judge_n and_o justice_n to_o a_o kingdom_n and_o yet_o we_o must_v wait_v long_o before_o you_o will_v prove_v that_o peter_n and_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n be_v in_o christ_n place_n as_o governor_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n sir_n i_o desire_v open_a deal_n as_o between_o man_n that_o believe_v these_o matter_n be_v of_o eternal_a consequence_n i_o watch_v not_o for_o any_o advantage_n against_o you_o though_o it_o be_v your_o part_n to_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a which_o our_o negative_a suppose_v yet_o i_o have_v begin_v the_o proof_n of_o our_o negative_a but_o it_o be_v on_o supposition_n that_o you_o will_v equal_o now_o prove_v your_o affirmative_a better_a than_o you_o have_v here_o do_v i_o have_v prove_v a_o visible_a church_n successive_o that_o hâ—ld_v not_o the_o pope_n universal_a government_n do_v you_o now_o prove_v thou_o the_o universal_a church_n in_o all_o age_n do_v hold_v the_o pope_n universal_a government_n which_o be_v your_o part_n or_o i_o must_v say_v again_o i_o shall_v think_v you_o do_v but_o run_v away_o and_o give_v up_o your_o cause_n as_o unable_a to_o defend_v it_o i_o have_v not_o fail_v you_o do_v not_o you_o fail_v i_o you_o complain_v of_o a_o deficiency_n in_o quality_n though_o you_o confess_v that_o i_o abound_v in_o number_n but_o where_o be_v the_o defect_n you_o say_v i_o must_v assert_v both_o that_o these_o be_v one_o congregation_n and_o ever_o visible_a since_o christ_n time_n reply_n if_o by_o one_o congregation_n you_o mean_v one_o assembly_n meet_v for_o personal_a communion_n which_o be_v the_o first_o sense_n of_o the_o word_n congregation_n it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o feign_v the_o universal_a church_n to_o be_v such_o if_o you_o mean_v one_o as_o unite_v in_o one_o visible_a humane_a head_n that_o be_v it_o that_o we_o deny_v and_o therefore_o may_v not_o be_v require_v to_o prove_v but_o that_o these_o church_n be_v one_o as_o unite_a in_o christ_n the_o head_n we_o easy_o prove_v in_o that_o from_o he_o the_o whole_a family_n be_v name_v the_o body_n be_v christ_n body_n 1_o cor._n 12.12_o 13._o and_o one_o in_o he_o eph._n 4.4_o 5_o 6_o etc._n etc._n all_o that_o be_v true_a christian_n be_v one_o kingdom_n or_o church_n of_o christ_n but_o these_o of_o who_o i_o speak_v be_v true_a christian_n therefore_o they_o be_v one_o kingdom_n or_o church_n of_o christ._n and_o that_o they_o have_v be_v visible_a since_o christ_n time_n till_o now_o all_o history_n even_o your_o own_o affirm_v as_o in_o judaea_n &_o from_o the_o apostle_n time_n in_o ethiopia_n egypt_n and_o other_o part_n rome_n be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o time_n of_o christ_n be_v on_o earth_n and_o to_o what_o purpose_n talk_v you_o of_o determinate_a congregation_n do_v you_o mean_v individual_a assembly_n those_o cease_v when_o the_o person_n die_v or_o do_v you_o mean_v assembly_n meet_v in_o the_o same_o place_n so_o they_o have_v not_o do_v still_o at_o rome_n i_o tell_v you_o and_o tell_v you_o still_o that_o we_o hold_v not_o that_o god_n have_v secure_v the_o perpetual_a visibility_n of_o his_o church_n in_o any_o one_o city_n or_o country_n but_o if_o it_o cease_v in_o one_o place_n it_o be_v still_o in_o other_o it_o may_v cease_v at_o ephesus_n at_o philippi_n colosse_n etc._n etc._n in_o tenduc_n nubia_n etc._n etc._n and_o yet_o remain_v in_o other_o part_n i_o never_o say_v that_o the_o church_n must_v needs_o be_v visible_a still_o in_o one_o town_n or_o country_n and_o yet_o it_o have_v be_v so_o de_fw-fr facto_fw-la as_o in_o asia_n ethiopia_n etc._n etc._n but_o you_o say_v i_o nominate_v none_o be_v you_o serious_a must_v i_o nominate_v christian_n of_o these_o nation_n to_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v such_o you_o require_v not_o this_o of_o the_o church_n historian_n it_o suffice_v that_o they_o tell_v you_o that_o ethiopia_n egypt_n armenia_n syria_n etc._n etc._n have_v christian_n without_o name_v they_o when_o all_o history_n tell_v you_o that_o these_o country_n be_v christian_n or_o have_v church_n i_o must_v tell_v you_o what_o and_o who_o they_o be_v must_v you_o have_v their_o name_n surname_n and_o genealogy_n i_o can_v name_v you_o one_o of_o a_o thousand_o in_o this_o small_a nation_n in_o the_o age_n i_o live_v in_o how_o then_o shall_v i_o name_v you_o the_o people_n of_o armenia_n abassia_n etc._n etc._n so_o long_o ago_o you_o can_v name_v but_o few_o of_o the_o roman_a church_n in_o each_o age_n and_o have_v they_o want_v learning_n and_o record_n as_o much_o as_o the_o abassins_n and_o indian_n and_o other_o you_o may_v have_v be_v as_o much_o to_o seek_v for_o name_n as_o they_o you_o ask_v be_v they_o different_a congregation_n answ._n as_o unite_a in_o christ_n they_o be_v one_o church_n but_o as_o assemble_v at_o one_o time_n or_o in_o one_o place_n or_o under_o the_o same_o guide_n so_o they_o be_v not_o one_o but_o divers_a congregation_n that_o there_o be_v any_o papist_n of_o 400._o year_n after_o christ_n do_v you_o prove_v if_o you_o be_v able_a my_o conclusion_n that_o all_o have_v be_v against_o you_o for_o many_o hundred_o year_n must_v stand_v good_a till_o you_o prove_v that_o some_o be_v for_o you_o yet_o i_o have_v herewith_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v none_o at_o least_o that_o can_v deserve_v the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n do_v you_o think_v to_o satisfy_v any_o reasonable_a man_n by_o call_v for_o positive_a proof_n from_o author_n of_o such_o negative_n yet_o proof_n you_o shall_v not_o want_v such_o as_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o point_n require_v viz._n that_o the_o say_a church_n of_o ethiopia_n india_n the_o outer_a armenia_n and_o other_o extra-imperial_a nation_n be_v not_o under_o the_o jurisdiction_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n 1._o you_o find_v all_o these_o church_n or_o most_o of_o they_o at_o this_o day_n that_o remain_v from_o under_o your_o jurisdiction_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v we_o when_o or_o how_o they_o turn_v from_o you_o if_o you_o can_v it_o have_v be_v do_v 2._o these_o nation_n
be_v member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n though_o they_o never_o hear_v of_o a_o pope_n at_o rome_n before_o they_o be_v unite_v to_o pastor_n of_o their_o own_o the_o proof_n of_o the_o minor_a from_o eph._n 4._o i_o grant_v as_o aforesaid_a the_o text_n prove_v that_o pastor_n the_o church_n shall_v have_v i_o disclaim_v the_o vain_a objection_n of_o conditionality_n in_o the_o promise_n which_o you_o mention_v but_o it_o prove_v not_o 1._o that_o the_o church_n shall_v have_v a_o universal_a monarch_n or_o vice-christ_n under_o christ._n 2._o nor_o that_o every_o member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n shall_v certain_o be_v a_o member_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n or_o ever_o see_v the_o face_n of_o a_o pastor_n or_o be_v subject_a to_o he_o you_o say_v next_o there_o remain_v only_o to_o prove_v the_o minor_a of_o the_o second_o syllogism_n viz._n that_o no_o congregation_n of_o christian_n have_v be_v always_o visible_a but_o that_o which_o acknowledge_v etc._n etc._n this_o be_v the_o great_a point_n which_o all_o lie_v on_o the_o rest_n have_v be_v all_o nothing_o but_o a_o cunning_a shoo_a horn_n to_o this_o prove_v this_o and_o prove_v all_o prove_v not_o this_o and_o you_o have_v lose_v your_o time_n you_o say_v the_o minor_n i_o prove_v by_o oblige_v the_o answerer_n to_o nominate_v any_o congregation_n of_o christian_n which_o always_o till_o this_o present_a time_n since_o christ_n have_v be_v visible_a save_v that_o only_a which_o acknowledge_v etc._n etc._n and_o have_v i_o wait_v all_o this_o while_n for_o this_o you_o prove_v it_o by_o oblige_v i_o to_o prove_v the_o contrary_n ridiculous_a sed_fw-la quo_fw-la jure_fw-la 1._o your_o undertake_a form_n of_o argue_v oblige_v you_o to_o prove_v your_o minor_a you_o can_v cast_v your_o respondent_fw-la upon_o prove_v and_o so_o argue_v and_o do_v the_o opponent_n part_n 2._o and_o in_o your_o postscript_n you_o present_o forbid_v it_o i_o you_o require_v i_o to_o hold_v to_o a_o concedo_fw-la nego_fw-la distingno_fw-la omitto_fw-la transeat_fw-la threaten_v that_o else_o you_o will_v take_v it_o for_o a_o effugium_fw-la and_o i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o in_o your_o next_o to_o which_o of_o these_o do_v the_o nomination_n or_o proof_n of_o such_o a_o church_n as_o you_o describe_v belong_v plain_o you_o first_o slip_n away_o when_o you_o shall_v prove_v your_o minor_a and_o then_o oblige_v i_o to_o prove_v the_o contrary_a and_o then_o tell_v i_o if_o i_o attempt_v it_o you_o will_v take_v it_o for_o a_o effugium_fw-la a_o good_a cause_n need_v not_o such_o deal_n as_o this_o which_o i_o think_v you_o shall_v be_v loath_a a_o learned_a man_n shall_v hear_v of_o 3._o your_o interest_n also_o in_o the_o matter_n as_o well_o as_o your_o office_n as_o opponent_n do_v oblige_v you_o to_o the_o proof_n for_o though_o you_o make_v a_o negative_a of_o it_o you_o may_v put_v it_o in_o other_o term_n at_o your_o pleasure_n it_o be_v your_o main_a work_n to_o prove_v thou_o all_o the_o member_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n have_v in_o all_o age_n hold_v the_o pope_n sovereignty_n or_o universal_a head-ship_n or_o the_o whole_n visible_a church_n have_v hold_v it_o prove_v this_o and_o i_o will_v be_v a_o papist_n you_o have_v my_o promise_n you_o affirm_v and_o you_o must_v prove_v prove_v a_o catholic_a church_n at_o least_o that_o in_o the_o major_a part_n be_v of_o that_o mind_n though_o that_o will_v be_v nothing_o to_o prove_v the_o condemnation_n of_o the_o rest_n if_o you_o be_v a_o impartial_a enquirer_n after_o truth_n fly_v not_o when_o you_o come_v to_o the_o set_v too_o i_o give_v you_o this_o further_a evident_a reason_n why_o you_o can_v oblige_v i_o to_o what_o you_o here_o impose_v 1._o because_o you_o require_v i_o to_o prove_v the_o visibility_n of_o a_o church_n which_o hold_v not_o your_o point_n of_o papacy_n and_o so_o put_v a_o unreasonable_a task_n upon_o i_o about_o a_o negative_a or_o else_o i_o must_v prove_v that_o they_o hold_v the_o contrary_a before_o your_o opinion_n be_v start_v and_o it_o be_v the_o catholic_a church_n that_o we_o be_v dispute_v about_o so_o that_o i_o must_v prove_v this_o negative_a of_o the_o catholic_a church_n 2._o it_o be_v you_o that_o lie_v the_o great_a stress_n of_o necessity_n on_o your_o affirmative_a more_o than_o we_o do_v on_o the_o negative_a you_o say_v that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v without_o your_o affirmative_a that_o the_o pope_n be_v the_o universal_a head_n and_o governor_n but_o we_o say_v not_o that_o no_o man_n can_v be_v save_v that_o hold_v not_o our_o negative_a that_o he_o be_v not_o the_o vice-christ_n for_o one_o that_o have_v the_o plague_n or_o leprosy_n may_v live_v therefore_o it_o be_v you_o that_o must_v prove_v that_o all_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v still_o of_o your_o mind_n 3._o and_o it_o be_v a_o accident_n and_o but_o a_o accident_n of_o a_o small_a corrupt_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n that_o you_o will_v oblige_v i_o to_o prove_v the_o negation_n of_o and_o therefore_o it_o be_v utter_o needless_a to_o my_o proof_n of_o a_o visible_a catholic_a church_n for_o i_o will_v without_o it_o prove_v to_o you_o a_o successive_a visibility_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n from_o the_o visibility_n of_o its_o essential_a or_o constitutive_a part_n of_o which_o your_o pope_n be_v none_o i_o will_v prove_v a_o successive_a visible_a church_n that_o have_v still_o profess_v faith_n in_o god_n the_o father_n son_n and_o holy_a ghost_n and_o be_v unite_v to_o the_o universal_a head_n and_o have_v particular_a pastor_n some_o fix_v some_o unfixed_a and_o hold_v all_o essential_a to_o a_o christian._n and_o prove_v this_o i_o have_v prove_v the_o church_n of_o which_o i_o be_o a_o member_n to_o prove_v that_o england_n have_v be_v so_o long_o a_o kingdom_n require_v no_o more_o but_o to_o prove_v the_o two_o essential_a part_n king_n and_o subject_n to_o have_v so_o long_o continue_v unite_v it_o require_v not_o that_o i_o prove_v that_o if_o ever_o either_o hâ—â—d_v or_o oppose_v a_o vice-king_n this_o be_v our_o plain_a case_n if_o a_o man_n have_v a_o botch_n on_o one_o of_o his_o hand_n it_o be_v not_o needful_a in_o order_n to_o my_o prove_v he_o a_o man_n heretofore_o that_o i_o prove_v he_o be_v bear_v and_o breed_v without_o it_o so_o be_v it_o i_o prove_v that_o he_o be_v bear_v a_o man_n it_o suffice_v nor_o be_v it_o needful_a that_o i_o prove_v the_o other_o hand_n always_o to_o have_v be_v free_a in_o order_n to_o prove_v it_o a_o member_n of_o the_o body_n it_o suffice_v that_o i_o prove_v it_o to_o have_v be_v still_o a_o hand_n i_o do_v therefore_o desire_v you_o to_o perform_v your_o work_n and_o prove_v that_o no_o congregation_n have_v be_v still_o visible_a but_o such_o as_o you_o or_o that_o the_o whole_a catholic_a church_n have_v ever_o since_o the_o ascension_n hold_v a_o humane_a universal_a governor_n under_o christ_n or_o else_o i_o shall_v take_v it_o as_o a_o give_v up_o your_o cause_n as_o indefensible_a and_o observe_v if_o you_o shall_v prove_v only_o that_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n still_o hold_v this_o which_o you_o can_v never_o do_v then_o 1._o you_o will_v make_v the_o contrary_a opinion_n as_o consistent_a with_o salvation_n as_o you_o for_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v savable_a 2._o and_o then_o you_o will_v allow_v i_o to_o turn_v your_o argument_n against_o yourself_o as_o much_o as_o it_o be_v against_o we_o and_o so_o cast_v it_o away_o e._n g._n what_o ever_o congregation_n of_o christian_n be_v now_o the_o true_a church_n of_o christ_n have_v be_v always_o visible_a but_o no_o congregation_n of_o christian_n have_v be_v always_o visible_a but_o that_o which_o quoad_fw-la partem_fw-la deny_v the_o pope_n universal_a headship_n therefore_o whatever_o congregation_n of_o christian_n be_v the_o true_a church_n deny_v the_o pope_n universal_a headship_n well!_o but_o for_o all_o this_o suppose_v you_o will_v do_v your_o part_n i_o will_v fail_v you_o in_o nothing_o that_o be_v reasonable_a which_o i_o can_v perform_v a_o catholic_a church_n in_o all_o age_n that_o be_v against_o the_o pope_n in_o every_o member_n of_o it_o i_o hope_v i_o can_v show_v you_o because_o i_o hope_v that_o you_o be_v member_n though_o corrupt_a but_o you_o shall_v have_v more_o than_o a_o particular_a congregation_n or_o a_o hundred_o 1._o at_o this_o present_a two_o or_o three_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n be_v know_v to_o be_v against_o your_o universal_a monarchy_n the_o greek_n armenian_n ethiopian_n etc._n etc._n beside_o the_o protestant_n 2._o in_o the_o last_o age_n there_o be_v as_o many_o or_o more_o 3._o in_o the_o former_a age_n till_o an._n d._n 1000_o there_o be_v near_o as_o
jure_fw-la divino_fw-la you_o confess_v you_o be_v but_o a_o humane_a policy_n or_o society_n and_o therefore_o that_o no_o man_n need_v to_o fear_v the_o loss_n of_o his_o salvation_n by_o renounce_v you_o r._n b._n qu._n 2._o how_o shall_v we_o know_v who_o have_v this_o power_n what_o election_n or_o consecration_n be_v necessary_a thereto_o if_o i_o know_v not_o who_o have_v it_o i_o be_o never_o the_o better_a mr._n j._n answ._n as_o you_o know_v who_o have_v temporal_a power_n by_o a_o universal_a or_o most_o common_a consent_n of_o the_o people_n the_o election_n be_v different_a according_a to_o different_a time_n place_n and_o other_o circumstance_n episcopal_a consecration_n be_v not_o absolute_o necessary_a r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 2._o repl._n 1_o how_o now_o be_v all_o the_o mystery_n of_o your_o succession_n and_o mission_n resolve_v into_o popular_a consent_n be_v no_o one_o way_n of_o election_n necessary_a do_v you_o leave_v that_o to_o be_v vary_v as_o a_o thing_n indifferent_a and_o be_v episcopal_a consecration_n also_o unnecessary_a i_o pray_v you_o here_o again_o remember_v then_o that_o none_o of_o our_o church_n be_v disable_v from_o the_o plea_n of_o a_o continue_a succession_n for_o want_v of_o episcopal_a consecration_n or_o any_o way_n of_o election_n if_o our_o pastor_n have_v have_v the_o people_n consent_n they_o have_v be_v true_a pastor_n according_a to_o this_o reckon_n and_o if_o they_o have_v now_o their_o consent_n they_o be_v true_a pastor_n but_o we_o have_v more_o 2._o by_o this_o rule_n we_o can_v know_v of_o one_o bishop_n of_o a_o hundred_o whether_o he_o be_v a_o bishop_n or_o no_o for_o we_o can_v know_v that_o he_o have_v the_o common_a consent_n of_o the_o people_n yea_o we_o know_v that_o abundance_n of_o your_o bishop_n have_v no_o such_o consent_n yea_o we_o know_v that_o your_o pope_n have_v none_o of_o the_o consent_n of_o most_o of_o the_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n nor_o for_o aught_o you_o or_o any_o man_n know_v of_o most_o in_o europe_n it_o be_v few_o of_o your_o own_o party_n that_o know_v who_o be_v pope_n much_o less_o be_v call_v to_o consent_v till_o after_o he_o be_v settle_v in_o possession_n 3._o according_a to_o this_o rule_n your_o succession_n have_v be_v frequent_o interrupt_v when_o against_o the_o will_n of_o general_a council_n and_o of_o the_o far_o great_a part_n of_o christian_n your_o pope_n have_v keep_v the_o seat_n by_o force_n 4._o in_o temporal_n your_o rule_n be_v not_o universal_o true_a what_o if_o the_o people_n be_v engage_v to_o one_o prince_n and_o afterward_o break_v their_o vow_n and_o consent_n to_o a_o usurper_n though_o in_o this_o ease_n a_o particular_a person_n may_v be_v oblige_v to_o submission_n and_o obedience_n in_o judicial_a administration_n yet_o the_o usurper_n can_v thereby_o defend_v his_o right_n and_o justify_v his_o possession_n nor_o the_o people_n justify_v their_o adhesion_n to_o he_o while_o they_o lie_v under_o a_o obligation_n to_o disclaim_v he_o because_o of_o their_o preengagement_n to_o another_o though_o some_o part_n of_o the_o truth_n be_v find_v in_o your_o assertion_n r._n b._n qu._n 3._o will_v any_o diocese_n serve_v ad_fw-la esse_fw-la what_o if_o it_o be_v but_o in_o particular_a assembly_n mr._n j._n answ._n it_o must_v be_v more_o than_o a_o parish_n or_o then_o one_o single_a congregation_n which_o have_v not_o different_a inferior_a pastor_n and_o one_o who_o be_v their_o superior_a r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 3._o repl._n this_o be_v but_o your_o naked_a affirmation_n i_o have_v prove_v the_o contrary_a from_o scripture_n father_n and_o council_n in_o my_o disputation_n of_o episcopacy_n viz._n that_o a_o bishop_n may_v be_v and_o of_o old_a ordinary_o be_v over_o the_o presbyter_n only_o of_o one_o parish_n or_o single_a congregation_n or_o a_o people_n no_o more_o numerous_a than_o our_o parish_n you_o must_v show_v we_o some_o scripture_n or_o general_a council_n for_o the_o contrary_a before_o we_o can_v be_v sure_a you_o here_o speak_v truth_n be_v gregory_n thaumaturgus_n no_o bishop_n because_o when_o he_o come_v first_o to_o neocaesarea_n he_o have_v but_o seventeen_o soul_n in_o his_o charge_n the_o like_a i_o may_v say_v of_o many_o more_o mr._n j._n tradition_n i_o understand_v by_o tradition_n the_o visible_a delivery_n from_o hand_n to_o hand_n in_o all_o age_n of_o the_o reveal_v word_n of_o god_n either_o write_v or_o unwritten_a r._n b._n of_o tradition_n qu._n 1._o but_o all_o the_o doubt_n be_v by_o who_o this_o tradition_n that_o be_v valid_a must_v be_v by_o your_o pastor_n or_o people_n or_o both_o by_o pope_n or_o council_n or_o bishop_n disjunct_n by_o the_o major_a part_n of_o the_o church_n or_o bishop_n or_o presbyter_n or_o the_o minor_a and_o by_o how_o many_o mr._n j._n answ._n by_o such_o and_o so_o many_o proportionable_o as_o suffice_v in_o a_o kingdom_n to_o certify_v the_o people_n which_o be_v the_o ancient_n universal_o receive_v custom_n in_o that_o kingdom_n which_o be_v to_o be_v moral_o consider_v r._n b._n reply_n of_o tradition_n qu._n 1._o repl._n i_o consent_v to_o this_o general_a but_o then_o 1._o how_o certain_o be_v tradition_n against_o you_o when_o most_o of_o the_o christian_a world_n yea_o all_o except_o a_o interest_v party_n do_v deny_v your_o sovereignty_n and_o plead_v tradition_n against_o it_o and_o how_o lame_a be_v your_o tradition_n when_o it_o be_v carry_v on_o your_o private_a affirmation_n and_o be_v nothing_o but_o the_o unproved_a say_n of_o a_o sect_n r._n b._n qu._n 2._o what_o proof_n or_o notice_n of_o it_o must_v satisfy_v i_o in_o particular_a that_o it_o so_o past_a mr._n j._n answ._n such_o as_o with_o proportion_n be_v a_o sufficient_a proof_n or_o notice_n of_o the_o law_n and_o custom_n of_o temporal_a kingdom_n r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 2._o repl._n but_o be_v it_o necessary_a for_o every_o christian_a to_o be_v able_a to_o weigh_v the_o credit_n of_o contradict_a party_n when_o one_o half_a of_o the_o world_n faith_n one_o thing_n and_o the_o other_o another_o thing_n what_o opportunity_n have_v ordinary_a christian_n to_o compare_v they_o and_o discern_v the_o moral_a advantage_n on_o each_o side_n as_o in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o pope_n sovereignty_n when_o two_o or_o three_o part_n of_o the_o christian_a world_n be_v against_o it_o and_o the_o rest_n for_o it_o can_v private_a christian_n try_v which_o party_n be_v the_o more_o credible_a or_o be_v it_o necessary_a to_o their_o salvation_n if_o so_o they_o be_v cast_v upon_o unavoidable_a despair_n if_o not_o must_v they_o all_o take_v the_o word_n of_o their_o present_a teacher_n then_o most_o of_o the_o world_n must_v believe_v against_o you_o because_o most_o of_o the_o teacher_n be_v against_o you_o and_o then_o it_o seem_v man_n faith_n be_v resolve_v into_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o parish-priest_n or_o their_o confessor_n the_o law_n of_o a_o kingdom_n may_v be_v easy_o know_v than_o christian_a doctrine_n can_v be_v know_v especial_o such_o as_o be_v controvert_v among_o we_o by_o mere_a unwritten_a tradition_n kingdom_n be_v of_o narrow_a compass_n than_o the_o world_n and_o though_o the_o sense_n of_o law_n be_v oft_o in_o question_n yet_o the_o be_v of_o they_o be_v seldom_o matter_n of_o controversy_n because_o man_n converse_v constant_o and_o familiar_o with_o each_o other_o may_v plain_o and_o full_o reveal_v their_o mind_n when_o god_n that_o condescend_v not_o to_o such_o a_o familiarity_n have_v deliver_v his_o mind_n by_o inspire_a person_n long_o ago_o with_o much_o less_o sensible_a advantage_n because_o it_o be_v a_o life_n of_o faith_n that_o he_o direct_v we_o to_o live_v mr._n j._n general_n council_n a_o general_a council_n i_o take_v to_o be_v a_o assembly_n of_o bishop_n and_o other_o chief_a prelate_n call_v convene_v and_o confirm_v by_o those_o who_o have_v sufficient_a spiritual_a authority_n to_o call_v convene_v and_o confirm_v r._n b._n of_o a_o general_n council_n qu._n 1._o who_o be_v it_o ad_fw-la esse_fw-la that_o must_v call_v convene_v confirm_v it_o till_o i_o know_v that_o i_o be_o never_o the_o near_o know_v what_o a_o council_n be_v and_o which_o be_v one_o indeed_o mr._n j._n answ._n definition_n abstract_a from_o inferior_a subdivision_n for_o your_o satisfaction_n i_o affirm_v it_o belong_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n r._n b._n reply_n qu._n 1._o repl._n 1_o if_o it_o be_v necessary_a to_o the_o be_v or_o validity_n of_o a_o council_n that_o it_o be_v call_v or_o confirm_v by_o the_o pope_n than_o your_o definition_n signify_v nothing_o if_o you_o abstract_a from_o that_o which_o be_v so_o necessary_a a_o ingredient_n unless_o it_o be_v presuppose_v to_o be_v understand_v 2._o if_o it_o belong_v to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n to_o call_v a_o council_n as_o necessary_a to_o its_o be_v
necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o true_a particular_a church_n bellarmine_n grant_v lib._n 3._o de_fw-fr eccles._n c._n 10._o that_o it_o be_v indeed_o to_o we_o uncertain_a that_o our_o pastor_n have_v potestatem_fw-la ordinis_fw-la &_o jurisdictionis_fw-la and_o that_o we_o have_v but_o a_o moral_a certainty_n that_o they_o be_v true_a bishop_n though_o we_o may_v know_v that_o they_o hold_v christ_n place_n and_o that_o we_o owe_v they_o obedience_n and_o that_o to_o know_v that_o they_o be_v our_o pastor_n non_fw-la requiritur_fw-la nec_fw-la fides_fw-la nec_fw-la character_n ordinis_fw-la nec_fw-la legitima_fw-la electio_fw-la sed_fw-la solum_fw-la ut_fw-la habeantur_fw-la pro_fw-la talibus_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la i._n e._n it_o be_v not_o requisite_a that_o they_o have_v faith_n or_o the_o character_n of_o order_n or_o lawful_a election_n but_o only_o that_o they_o be_v take_v for_o such_o by_o the_o church_n and_o if_o it_o be_v enough_o that_o their_o church_n repute_v their_o pastor_n to_o be_v elect_v ordain_v and_o believer_n though_o they_o be_v not_o so_o indeed_o then_o can_v no_o more_o be_v necessary_a to_o we_o we_o repute_v we_o as_o confident_o to_o be_v lawful_o elect_v and_o ordain_v as_o they_o do_v they_o 3._o it_o be_v contrary_a to_o the_o papist_n own_o opinion_n that_o any_o consecration_n much_o less_o canonical_a be_v necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o their_o universal_a head_n i_o need_v not_o cite_v their_o author_n for_o this_o as_o long_o as_o you_o have_v 1._o the_o history_n of_o their_o practice_n and_o 2._o the_o confession_n of_o this_o learned_a man_n that_o i_o dispute_v with_o in_o the_o explication_n of_o the_o term_n pope_n in_o these_o his_o last_o paper_n and_o that_o which_o be_v not_o necessary_a to_o their_o pope_n can_v by_v they_o be_v make_v necessary_a to_o our_o bishop_n 4._o nothing_o in_o church_n history_n more_o certain_a then_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v have_v no_o continue_a succession_n of_o a_o true_o elect_v or_o ordain_v pope_n according_a to_o their_o own_o canon_n 1._o if_o infidelity_n or_o heresy_n judge_v by_o a_o council_n in_o the_o case_n of_o honorius_n joh._n 23._o eugenius_n etc._n etc._n will_v not_o prove_v a_o nullity_n and_o intercision_n 2._o if_o simony_n murder_n adultery_n etc._n etc._n will_v not_o prove_v it_o 3._o if_o about_o forty_o year_n schism_n at_o once_o will_v not_o prove_v it_o none_o know_v who_o be_v the_o true_a pope_n but_o by_o the_o prevalency_n of_o his_o secular_a power_n and_o their_o writer_n confess_v that_o it_o be_v know_v to_o none_o but_o god_n 4._o if_o intrusion_n without_o any_o just_a election_n will_v not_o prove_v it_o then_o there_o be_v no_o danger_n to_o those_o church_n that_o be_v liable_a to_o no_o such_o accusation_n but_o if_o any_o or_o all_o of_o these_o will_v prove_v it_o the_o roman_a intercision_n be_v beyond_o dispute_n as_o i_o shall_v further_o manifest_v on_o any_o just_a call_n if_o it_o be_v deny_v 5._o the_o stand_a law_n and_o institution_n of_o christ_n be_v it_o that_o give_v the_o power_n by_o impose_v the_o duty_n of_o ministration_n and_o ordination_n only_o determine_v of_o the_o person_n that_o shall_v receive_v it_o together_o with_o election_n and_o solemnize_v it_o by_o investiture_n as_o coronation_n to_o a_o king_n that_o be_v a_o king_n before_o i_o have_v already_o prove_v that_o a_o uninterrupted_a succession_n of_o regular_a ordination_n be_v no_o more_o necessary_a to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o church_n than_o uninterrupted_a succession_n of_o regular_a coronation_n be_v to_o the_o be_v of_o a_o king_n or_o kingdom_n which_o i_o be_o ready_a to_o make_v good_a 6._o this_o whole_a case_n of_o ordination_n i_o have_v already_o speak_v to_o so_o careful_o and_o full_o according_a to_o my_o measure_n in_o my_o second_o dispute_n of_o church_n government_n that_o i_o shall_v suppose_v that_o man_n have_v say_v nothing_o to_o i_o require_v my_o reply_n on_o this_o point_n that_o do_v not_o answer_v that_o and_o to_o write_v the_o same_o thing_n here_o over_o again_o can_v fair_o be_v expect_v 7._o voetius_fw-la de_fw-la desperata_fw-la causa_fw-la papatus_fw-la have_v copious_o do_v the_o same_o against_o jansenius_n which_o they_o shall_v answer_v satisfactory_o before_o they_o call_v for_o more_o 8._o the_o nullity_n which_o they_o suppose_v to_o make_v the_o intercision_n be_v either_o the_o ordination_n we_o have_v from_o the_o papist_n bishop_n before_o our_o reformation_n or_o the_o ordination_n that_o we_o receive_v since_o if_o the_o former_a be_v a_o nullity_n than_o all_o the_o papist_n ordination_n be_v null_a and_o so_o they_o nullify_v their_o church_n and_o ministry_n that_o the_o latter_a be_v no_o nullity_n we_o be_v ready_a to_o make_v good_a against_o any_o of_o they_o all_o object_n but_o if_o you_o own_o your_o ordination_n as_o from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n you_o own_o their_o church_n answ._n we_o consider_v they_o 1._o as_o christian_a pastor_n 2._o as_o popish_a pastor_n as_o christian_a pastor_n in_o the_o catholic_a church_n their_o ordination_n be_v no_o more_o a_o nullity_n than_o their_o baptise_v which_o we_o count_v valid_a but_o as_o popish_a they_o have_v no_o authority_n for_o either_o object_n but_o they_o give_v both_o baptism_n and_o ordination_n as_o papist_n and_o it_o must_v be_v judge_v of_o by_o the_o intention_n of_o the_o giver_n and_o receiver_n answ._n it_o be_v the_o baptism_n and_o ordination_n of_o christ_n institution_n as_o such_o which_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v give_v and_o receive_v can_v we_o prove_v that_o they_o administer_v any_o other_o or_o otherwise_o they_o say_v they_o will_v disow_v it_o as_o such_o therefore_o we_o must_v take_v it_o till_o we_o can_v prove_v that_o they_o destroy_v the_o very_a essence_n of_o it_o if_o it_o be_v give_v and_o take_v secondary_o as_o popish_a the_o scab_n of_o their_o corruption_n pollute_v it_o but_o not_o nullifi_v it_o so_o they_o profess_v themselves_o first_o minister_n of_o christ_n and_o but_o subordinate_o as_o they_o think_v of_o the_o pope_n so_o much_o therefore_o as_o belong_v to_o they_o in_o their_o first_o and_o lawful_a relation_n may_v be_v valid_a though_o so_o much_o as_o respect_v their_o usurp_a relation_n be_v sinful_a have_v i_o be_v baptize_v or_o ordain_v by_o one_o of_o their_o priest_n i_o will_v disow_v all_o the_o corruption_n of_o they_o but_o not_o the_o baptism_n and_o ordination_n itself_o 9_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n to_o the_o be_v or_o well-being_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n that_o it_o have_v continue_v from_o the_o apostle_n day_n or_o that_o its_o particular_a ministry_n have_v have_v no_o intercision_n if_o germany_n be_v convert_v but_o late_o to_o the_o christian_a faith_n it_o may_v be_v nevertheless_o a_o true_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n if_o jerusalem_n have_v sometime_o a_o church_n and_o sometime_o none_o it_o may_v have_v now_o a_o true_a church_n nevertheless_o 10._o if_o our_o ordination_n have_v fail_v by_o a_o intercision_n it_o may_v as_o well_o be_v repair_v from_o other_o church_n that_o have_v have_v a_o continue_a succession_n as_o from_o rome_n and_o much_o better_a because_o without_o participation_n of_o their_o peculiar_a corruption_n or_o if_o any_o bishop_n that_o be_v of_o the_o papal_a faction_n shall_v repent_v of_o their_o popery_n and_o not_o of_o their_o ordination_n they_o may_v ordain_v we_o as_o bishop_n and_o repair_v our_o breach_n and_o indeed_o that_o be_v the_o way_n of_o our_o continue_a ordination_n many_o that_o repent_v that_o they_o be_v popish_a prelate_n continue_v the_o office_n of_o christian_a bishop_n and_o by_o such_o our_o ancestor_n be_v ordain_v as_o christianity_n and_o episcopacy_n be_v before_o popery_n and_o so_o be_v they_o still_o separable_a from_o it_o and_o may_v continue_v when_o it_o be_v renounce_v beside_o what_o i_o have_v more_o full_o say_v in_o the_o foresay_a dispute_n of_o ordination_n i_o see_v no_o need_n of_o add_v any_o more_o against_o this_o objection_n about_o successive_a ordination_n and_o ministerial_a power_n as_o to_o their_o other_o objection_n which_o they_o make_v such_o a_o stir_n with_o and_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o the_o answer_n which_o we_o have_v so_o often_o give_v viz._n when_o every_o sect_n pretend_v that_o they_o have_v the_o true_a church_n and_o ministry_n who_o shall_v judge_v i_o again_o answer_v there_o be_v a_o judicium_fw-la privatum_fw-la and_o publicum_fw-la a_o private_a judgement_n of_o discern_v belong_v to_o every_o man_n the_o public_a judgement_n be_v either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a the_o civil_a judgement_n be_v who_o shall_v be_v thus_o or_o thus_o esteem_v of_o in_o order_n to_o civil_a encouragement_n or_o discouragement_n as_o by_o corporal_a punishment_n or_o reward_n this_o judgement_n belong_v only_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n the_o ecclesiastical_a
be_v of_o your_o church_n because_o it_o be_v so_o little_a catholic_a i_o be_o of_o the_o one_o universal_a church_n which_o contain_v all_o the_o true_a christian_n in_o the_o world_n and_o you_o be_v of_o a_o party_n which_o have_v separate_v itself_o from_o most_o of_o the_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n i_o be_o of_o that_o one_o body_n that_o be_v centre_v in_o christ_n the_o head_n you_o be_v of_o a_o piece_n of_o this_o body_n that_o have_v centre_v in_o a_o man_n and_o oft_o a_o confess_v heretical_a wicked_a man_n who_o you_o take_v while_o he_o live_v to_o be_v the_o infallible_a judge_n and_o foundation_n of_o all_o your_o faith_n and_o hope_n and_o when_o he_o be_v dead_a perhaps_o pronounce_v he_o to_o be_v in_o hell_n as_o bellarmine_n do_v pope_n sixtus_n and_o other_o common_o i_o know_v as_o every_o sect_n have_v a_o kind_n of_o unity_n among_o themselves_o however_o divide_v from_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n so_o also_o have_v you_o but_o nothing_o will_v satisfy_v i_o but_o a_o catholic_a unity_n church_n and_o faith_n so_o much_o be_v premise_v i_o answer_v your_o question_n quest._n 1._o whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n in_o the_o apostle_n day_n answ._n the_o word_n church_n signify_v more_o thing_n than_o one_o 1._o sometime_o it_o be_v use_v to_o signify_v the_o whole_a mystical_a body_n of_o christ_n contain_v all_o and_o only_o those_o that_o be_v justify_v who_o bellarmine_n call_v live_v member_n and_o in_o this_o sense_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n in_o the_o apostle_n day_n be_v not_o the_o church_n but_o the_o justify_v member_n be_v part_n of_o the_o church_n 2._o sometime_o it_o be_v use_v to_o signify_v all_o that_o profess_v true_a christianity_n in_o the_o world_n and_o thus_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v not_o the_o church_n but_o part_n of_o it_o 3._o it_o be_v oft_o use_v by_o your_o writer_n to_o signify_v one_o church_n that_o by_o prerogative_n be_v the_o head_n or_o mistress_n of_o all_o christian_n in_o the_o world_n to_o which_o they_o must_v all_o be_v subject_a and_o from_o which_o they_o must_v receive_v their_o name_n as_o the_o kingdom_n of_o mexico_n of_o tripoli_n of_o fez_n etc._n etc._n be_v so_o call_v from_o the_o chief_a city_n of_o the_o same_o name_n and_o from_o which_o they_o receive_v their_o faith_n and_o law_n as_o the_o body_n have_v life_n and_o motion_n from_o the_o head_n or_o heart_n in_o this_o sense_n the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o apostle_n day_n 4._o sometime_o it_o be_v use_v to_o signify_v one_o particular_a church_n associate_v for_o personal_a communion_n in_o worship_n and_o thus_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a church_n in_o the_o apostle_n day_n 5._o sometime_o it_o be_v use_v to_o signify_v a_o collection_n or_o conjunction_n of_o many_o particular_a church_n though_o not_o all_o under_o the_o bishop_n of_o one_o church_n as_o their_o patriarch_n or_o metropolitan_a and_o thus_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v no_o church_n in_o the_o apostle_n day_n but_o about_o two_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n it_o be_v it_o be_v only_o the_o church_n in_o the_o three_o of_o these_o sense_n that_o be_v in_o controversy_n between_o the_o roman_a and_o reform_a church_n now_o to_o your_o next_o question_n quest._n 2._o when_o be_v it_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n answ._n in_o the_o first_o second_o and_o three_o sense_n it_o never_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n for_o it_o never_o be_v one_o in_o the_o first_o and_o second_o sense_n it_o never_o be_v one_o either_o in_o title_n or_o claim_n i_o hope_v in_o the_o three_o it_o be_v never_o one_o in_o title_n nor_o yet_o in_o claim_n for_o many_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n but_o now_o it_o be_v therefore_o the_o question_n between_o we_o shall_v not_o be_v when_o it_o cease_v but_o when_o it_o begin_v to_o be_v such_o a_o capital_a rule_v church_n essential_a to_o the_o whole_a in_o the_o five_o sense_n it_o never_o cease_v otherwise_o then_o as_o it_o be_v swallow_v up_o in_o a_o high_a title_n it_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o patriarchal_a church_n about_o two_o or_o three_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o it_o cease_v to_o be_v mere_o patriarchal_a when_o it_o arrogate_a the_o title_n of_o universal_a or_o mistress_n of_o all_o in_o the_o four_o sense_n the_o question_n be_v not_o so_o easy_a and_o i_o shall_v thus_o answer_v it_o 1._o by_o speak_v to_o the_o use_n of_o the_o question_n 2._o by_o a_o direct_a answer_n to_o it_o 1._o it_o be_v of_o small_a concernment_n to_o my_o salvation_n or_o you_o to_o know_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v a_o true_a particular_a church_n or_o not_o no_o more_o then_o to_o know_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o thessalonica_n or_o ephesus_n or_o antioch_n be_v now_o a_o true_a church_n in_o charity_n to_o they_o i_o be_o bind_v to_o regard_v it_o as_o i_o be_o bind_v to_o regard_v the_o life_n of_o my_o neighbour_n but_o what_o do_v it_o concern_v my_o own_o life_n to_o know_v whether_o the_o mayor_n and_o alderman_n of_o worcester_n or_o gloucester_n be_v dead_a or_o alive_a so_o what_o do_v it_o concern_v my_o salvation_n to_o know_v whether_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v now_o a_o true_a particular_a church_n if_o i_o live_v at_o the_o antipode_n or_o in_o aethiopia_n and_o have_v never_o hear_v that_o there_o be_v such_o a_o place_n as_o rome_n in_o the_o world_n as_o many_o a_o thousand_o christian_n doubtless_o never_o hear_v of_o it_o this_o will_v not_o hinder_v my_o salvation_n as_o long_o as_o i_o believe_v in_o the_o bless_a trinity_n and_o be_v sanctify_v by_o the_o spirit_n of_o grace_n so_o that_o as_o i_o be_o none_o of_o their_o judge_n so_o i_o know_v not_o that_o it_o much_o concern_v i_o to_o know_v whether_o they_o be_v a_o true_a particular_a church_n save_v for_o charity_n or_o communion_n 2._o yet_o i_o answer_v it_o more_o direct_o 1._o if_o they_o do_v not_o by_o their_o error_n so_o far_o overthrow_v the_o christian_a faith_n which_o they_o profess_v as_o that_o it_o can_v practical_o be_v believe_v by_o they_o then_o be_v they_o a_o true_a particular_a church_n or_o part_n of_o the_o universal_a church_n 2._o and_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o hope_v at_o least_o of_o most_o that_o they_o do_v not_o so_o hold_v their_o error_n but_o that_o they_o retain_v with_o they_o so_o much_o of_o the_o essential_o of_o religion_n as_o may_v denominate_v they_o a_o true_a profess_v church_n more_o plain_o rome_n be_v consider_v first_o as_o christian_a second_o as_o papal_n as_o christian_n it_o be_v a_o true_a church_n as_o papal_a it_o be_v no_o true_a church_n for_o popery_n be_v not_o the_o church_n according_a to_o christ_n institution_n but_o a_o dangerous_a corruption_n in_o the_o church_n as_o a_o leprosy_n be_v not_o the_o man_n but_o the_o disease_n of_o the_o man_n yet_o he_o that_o be_v a_o leper_n may_v be_v a_o mâ—â—_n and_o he_o that_o be_v a_o papist_n may_v be_v a_o christian_n but_o 1._o not_o as_o he_o be_v a_o papist_n 2._o and_o he_o be_v but_o a_o leprous_a or_o disease_a christian._n so_o much_o to_o your_o question_n by_o this_o much_o you_o may_v see_v that_o it_o no_o way_n concern_v i_o to_o prove_v when_o rome_n cease_v to_o be_v a_o true_a church_n for_o if_o you_o mean_v such_o a_o church_n as_o corinth_n philippi_n ephesus_n etc._n etc._n be_v that_o be_v but_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n so_o i_o stick_v not_o much_o save_v in_o point_n of_o charity_n whether_o it_o be_v true_a or_o false_a but_o if_o you_o mean_v as_o your_o party_n do_v a_o mistress_n church_n to_o rule_v the_o whole_a and_o denominate_v the_o catholic_a church_n roman_a so_o i_o say_v its_o usurpation_n be_v not_o cease_v that_o be_v the_o misery_n and_o its_o just_a title_n never_o do_v begin_v and_o its_o claim_n be_v not_o of_o many_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n so_o that_o your_o question_n require_v no_o further_a answer_n but_o what_o if_o you_o have_v put_v the_o question_n at_o what_o time_n it_o be_v that_o your_o church_n begin_v to_o claim_v this_o universal_a dominion_n i_o shall_v give_v you_o these_o two_o answer_n 1._o when_o i_o understand_v that_o it_o be_v of_o any_o great_a moment_n to_o the_o decision_n of_o our_o controversy_n i_o shall_v tell_v you_o my_o opinion_n of_o the_o man_n that_o first_o lay_v the_o claim_n and_o the_o year_n when_o 2._o but_o it_o be_v sufficient_a for_o i_o to_o prove_v that_o from_o the_o beginning_n it_o be_v not_o so_o little_o do_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n before_o constantine_n day_n dream_v of_o govern_v all_o