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A17914
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A stay against straying. Or An answer to a treatise intituled: The lavvfulnes of hearing the ministers of the Church of England. By John Robinson. Wherein is proved the contrarie, viz: The unlawfulnes of hearing the ministers of all false Churches. By John Canne.
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Canne, John, d. 1667?
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1639
(1639)
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STC 4575; ESTC S115149
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141,377
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156
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28. P. Piâ—s the second u Abbaâ— Vespersâ—nâ—is p. 443. and Others In conclusion then seeing the hearing of vnlawfull Ministers is flat against scripture articles as we haâ—e partly manifested and God willing more will doe we â— must 〈◊〉 as Ierome x in Mat. 23 speakes it though it should in the meane time be iustified and practised by many Churches and people The second thing which he desires may be noted is that this hearing was not in the iudgement of the Church esteemed as a thinge that might not be borne with all Answ 1 The doctrine of the Nicolaitans which was a Trenan l. 1 27. Epiphanc 1. Tom. 1. Eâ—â—â—â— 3. 29. that adulterie and fornication were no sinnes and that men might communicate with the sacrifices of Idolaters in their idol temples was not in the iudgment of the Churches at Pergamos and Thyatira esteemed as a thing that might not be borne withall was the same therfore good indeed such a conclusion we must either here gather from his wordes or conclude he knew not well what he wrote 2. To the iudgement of that Church when they wrote to London I may oppose their former and better iudgment ffor with reverence to the Phrase from the beginning this was not soe ffor in their constitution and many yeares after they held * Remember therfore from vvhâ—nce thou art fallen and repent and doe the first vvorkes Reu. 2. 5. hearing of vnlawfull Ministers a very vnlawful practise And so much appeares in sundry passages Published to the world by the Pastor himselfe And for the Readers better satisfaction I thinke it not amisse to sert downe their Owne words Those b Munumission to a manuduction pag. 5. who partake in the worke of Preaching of one sent by the Bp DOE PARTAKE IN WHAT LYETH JN THEM IN THE AVTHORITY OF THE SENDER Againe The authorite of Ministers in their Parishionall Churches c Page 4. may not be by Gods people partaken with no not in actions otherwise Lawfull vnder the paines of Babilons Plagues Againe in another booke d Religious Communion pag. 20. thus they write Let all them that feare God consider that when they come to worship in the Parish Assemblyes they joyne themselues where God hath not joyned them and doe acknowledge that societie for the Church of God and communion of saints which he hath not sanctifyed for that purpose and in saying ourfather with them they acknowledge them for the children of God who in the perswation of their consciences are of their father the divel And in the same booke a little after e pag. 32. Their very administrations by vnlawfull calling are the sinnes and so to PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR ADMINISTRATIONS IS TO PARTAKE WITH THEM IN THEIR SINNES contrary to Timot. 5. 22. Reu. 14. 4. In their answere to Maister Barnerds booke thus they write largesie of this point f Justification of Separat pag. 78. 79. 80. â—e also page 17. 162. 276. 433. Some of which is as followeth But the thing which most grieves Mr. B and at which he hath greatest indignation Pap. 62. is that we will not heare his sermons though he preach nothing but the true word of God And so he desires to heare of vs where the hearing of the true word of God onely preached is sinn and forbidden by Christ or the Prophets or Apostles For answer hereof I would know first whether Mr. B. speaking here and in many other places of the true Word of God do means that God hath a true word and a false word or rather bewray not an accusing conscience that they in England have not the true word truely taught that is in a true office of Ministery Now for the demaund referring the reader for more full satisfaction to that which hath bene published at large by others I do answer that as it was vnlawfull to * Nâ—mb 16. 2. Câ— 26. 1 King 12. communicate with Corah or with vzziah though they offered true sacrifices so IS IT VNLAWFVL TO COMMVNICATE WITH ADEVISED MINSTERY WHAT TRVTH SOEVER IS TAVGHT IN IT Secondly the Lord hath promised no blessing to his word but in his owe ordinance though by his superaboundand mercy he oft tymes vouchsafe that which no man can chalendg by any ordinary promise Thirdly * no man may partake in other mens sinns â—â—m 5. 12. but euery Ministery eyther devised or vsurped is the sinn of him which exerciseth it Rev. 18. 4. And as no good subject would assist or communicate with any person in the administration of civil Justice to the Kings subjects no not though he administred the same never so equally and indifferrently except the same person had commission from the King so to do so neyther ought the subjects of the kingdome of Christ to partake with any person whomsoever in the dispensation of any spirituall thing though in it self never so holy withot sufficient warrant and commission from the most absolute and sovereigne King of his Church Christ Iesus And where Mr. B. speaks of hearing the true word of God only preached he intimates therin that if we would heare him preach it would satisfy him well and so teacheth vs with himselfe and others to make a schisme in the Church in vsing one ordinance and not an other It is all one whether a man communicate with the minister in his pulpit or with the Chauncelor in his consistory both of them minister by the same power of the Bishop The Chauncelor may iudge justly who knowes whither or no the Minister will teach truely And if he doe not but speak the vision of his owne heart what remedy hath the Church or what can they that hear him do May they rebuke him openly according to his sin and so bring him to repentance or must they not beare his errors yea his heresyes also during the pleasure of the Bishops even their Lord his And would you Mr. B. be content your people should heare a masse-Priest or Jesuite though he professed as loud as you do that he would teach the true word of God And think not scorne of the match for you haue the selfe same office with a masse Preist though refyned If he be ordayned by a Bishop though it be the Bishop of Rome he may minister in any Church of England by vertue of that ordination Andbesides masse-Preists preach some and those the mayne truthes and the Ministers in England neither do nor dare preach all no nor some which it may be the others do Is it not better then for the servants of the L. Iesus to exercise and aedify themselves according to the model of grace receaved though in weaker measure then to be so simple as to come to your feasts though you cry never so loud vnto them thinking that because your stoln waters are sweet and your hidden bread pleasant that they have no power to passe by but must needs become your guests And here
have proved before that howsoever a man stand not in spirituall and politicall church communion with a Church and ministery thereof yet he is there a participant or communicant in and with the ordinances as with the doctrines taught so with the state of the Teacher For the better clearing of this Let vs in few words consider a Church state Ministery and administrations make vp as I may so say the body of divine worship Now it is a knowne Maxime quidquid est pars partis est etiam pars tâ—tius The hand is a part of the body the finger a part of the hand he therefore that holds either my hand or finger toucheth my body So in iust proportion hee that toucheth any part or member of the spiritual politicall body hee toucheth the body or state bee the same true or false if true his communion is lawfull if false he toucheth an uncheane thing and â—oâ— sinneth against that precept in 1. Cor. 6. 17. To end this Section howsoever hearing of the word of God lies in common for all for the good of all Yet hath God appointed away and order vnto all how to heare it Food and rayment lies in common to all for the good of all What of this shall wee hence conclude it is noe matter by what meanes or course men have it indeed so he reasoneth or else Oleum et operam perdidit he speaketh neither for himselfe nor against vs. Mr. Baines f Diocesen triall p. 7. writes well no people can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministery without warrant of his word Let the reader note it SECT 3. THe Treatiser for this opposities hath framed 16 objections the which as himselfe saith * Pag. 13. he hath either heard from others or could conceiue of himselfe ooulerably against the practice by him propounded The first is laid downe thus No man may submit his conscience to be wrought vpon Object 1. by an unlawfull and antichristian ministery neither hath God promised or doth afford †These vvords in a different letter are the Treat ovvne and vve disclaime them any blessing upon it neither can any have the sanctified vse thereof His answere hereto is this The office of the ministery workes not vpon the conscience of the hearer properly the office gives onely power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such aplace it resides in the person of the officer alone the communion lawful or unlawfull which any hath with it is in regard of the lawfull or unlawfull relation and vnion foregoing between the persons and not in any working of the office vpon the conscience of any God may and doth blesse the truths taught fauls ministers Answ It was Heiroms k Paulum quotiescunque lego videor mihi non verba audire sed tonitrua cont Iovinian censure of Pauls Epistles that when hee read them He thought he heard not words but Thunder This cannot be well applied to his reply here For should I speake my conscience it is a meere Phrasiologie words without weight of reason 1. He denies our first assertion But how cleares he it to the contrarie As is his ground so are his proofes Only bare saying Sit pro ratione voluntas That the Office of the Minister workes upon the Hearers conscience It is certaine and not to be denyed without losse of credit both to the person and cause of the denyer in the eye of all reasonable men l Exo. 28. For this is evident by the Scriptures whether we respect an Office true or false Ephes 4 11. 2 Thes 2 Rev. 9. Againe if it be considered what we meane by the Office working upon the conscience Common reason will prove it too Our meaning is that the state or povver by which he administers is herein submitted too As Magistrates are obeyed in civill Justice because of their calling and were it not for it men could not for conscience sake receive their administrations So the conscience of a Hearer is brought in subjection to the ordinance of Hearing even for the Office sake of him that teacheth We intend here Ministeriall teaching It is most certaine saith one m Mr. Peitry of the Ministery of the Church of England Pag. 37. 38. Satan ruleth in the consciences of men not only by false doctrine but also by his false power and ordinances His Kingdome of darknes not only consisteth in the lies and false doctrine and worship which he hath coyned but also in the false and Antichristian Ordinances which he hath invented for the ruling of his Idolatrous denne And therefore the Children and Saints of God ought to avoyd both the one and the other So hee 2. It is not true that the Office only gives power and charge to the Teacher to teach in such or such a Church-state For properly it respects not that at all but rather the Office of the person gives him power to preach pray administer the Sacraments c. according to their Order and Canons He that that hath not a Church-state to preach in yet beeing ordained Preist hath power by his Office to doe the worke of a Preist any where And so much the Treat n Manumis to a Manuduct p. 70. in another Booke acknowledgeth The Office is the very state and function conferred upon a man by his calling from which Office ariseth immediate * Note this power and charge to administer and to performe the works of that Office In the performance of which workes the Office is executed power used And whereas he mentioneth here the truths they teach J grant these are from God but the Office which gives them power and charge to speake them is from Antichrist And a speciall Character or Marke as the Learned o Mr. Symon on the Rev. pag. 120. write of the Beast Thus said Iohn Chaydon p Acts and Monuments Edict 5. pag. 588. a Martyr of Christ The Bishops license to preach the Word of God is the true Character of the Beast that is of Antichrist The like Mr. Bale q On Revel chap. 14. 9. and others 3. Whereas he saith the false Office resides in the person of the Officer alone Here I might take that exception of the Law r In testimon dig de testibus against him They who wander against the credis of their owne Testimonies are not to be heard Against this we have his owne testimony For thus he saith s Manumiss to a manuduct pag. 5. those that pertake in the worke of preaching of one sent by the Bishops doe pertake in what lyeth in them in the authority of the sender And this is so indeed The sinfull Office of the Teacher becomes his sinne who practiseth will-worship with him For hereby hee enwraps himselfe into the guilt of the Office And this thing by another is so clearely proved t Treatise of the Ministery of the church of EnglaÌ„d by Fran Iohnson Pag. 5 6 7