7. Arg. 1. Answ. Counterpoys Character of the beast ag R. Clifton Arch-deacon Beatissimus Papa passiâ—n in Epist Ignat. ad Trallian Euseb. l. 3. Ex Euseb. Hier. Catalog script Epiph. â—nio c. Cal. Instit l. 4. Hieron Euagrio Heming Potest Eccles. clas 3. c. 10. Hinc Ecclesia purior secuta tempora Apostolorum fecit alios Patriarchas quorum erat curare vt Episcupi cuiusque dâ—ocescos rite eligerentur vt suum munus Episcopi singuli probe administrarent c. Arist. Pol. 7. Potentia diuitiarum pauper tatis humilitas vel humiliorem vel inferiorem Episcopum non facit Hieron Euagr. Sep. And so do all the Reformed Churches in the world of whose testimony you boast so loud renounce the Prelacy of England as part of that Pseudo-Clergie and Antichristian Hierarchie deriued from Rome Answ. Counterpoys 3 Consid. Ps. 10. 7. Bez. de ministr Euang. c. 18. Cited also by D. Down p. 29. Heming Iudicat caeteros ministros suis Episcopis obtem perare debere Potest Eccles. c. 10. Article 21 Sep. Infallibility of iudgement It seemes the sacred so called Synode assumeth little lesse vnto her selfe in her determinations otherwise how durst she decree so absolutely as she doth touching things reputed indifferent viz. that all men in all places must submit vnto them without exception or limitation Except she could infallibly determine that these her ceremonies thus absolutely imposed should edifie all men at all times how durst she thus impose them To exact obedience in and vnto them whether they offend or offend not whether they edifie or destroy were intollerable presumption Obligatio fine coercione nalla Reg. Iur. Non iura dicenda sunt c. de Ciuitat l. 19. Answ. to the Admon p. 279. cited also by D. Sparkes p. 14. Aug. Ep. 86. In his enim rebus de quibus nihâ—â— certi statuit scriptura diuina mos populi Dei vel instituta maiorum pro lege tenenda sunt Liâ—ius Decad. 4. l. 4. Nulla lex satis commoda omnibus est id modo quaeritur si maiori parti in summa prodest Cum consedissent sancti religiosi Episcopi Bin. Tom. 1. p. 239. Sancta Synod Carthagi 4. sub Anastasio 553. Sancta Pacifica Synod Antiocben 1. p. 420. Sancta dei Apostolica Synodus 413. Peruenit ad sanctam synodum can Nic. 18. 309. Sancta synod Laâ—dicena 288. Sep. Dispensations with the lawes of God and sins of men To let passe your Ecclesiasticall consistories wherein sins and absolutions from them are as venall and saleable as at Rome Is it not a law of the Eternall God that the Ministers of the Gospell the Bishops or Elders should be apt and able to teach 1. Tim 3 2. Tit. 1. 9. and is it not their greeuous sin to be vnapt hereunto Esa 56. 10 11. And. yet who know-not that the Patrons amongst you present that the Bishops institute the Archdeacons induct the Churces receiâ—e and the Lawes both Ciuill and Ecclesiasticall allow and iustify Ministers vnapt and vâ—able to teach G. Ioh. Trou and Exco at Amste Insufficiency 〈◊〉 resideâ—cy of Ministers Insufficiency non residency of Ministers Sep. Is it not a law of the eternall God that the Elders should feede the flocke ouer which they are set labouring amongst them in the word and doctrine Act. 20. 28. 1. Pet 5. 1. 2. and is it not sinne to omit this duety Can. 34. M. Hooker 5. b. Eccles. Pol. Pag. 26. 3. D. Down of the office and dignity of the Miâ—ist Dispensations for pluralities Sep. Plead not for Baall Your dispensations for Non-residency pluralities of Benefices as for two three or more yea tot quot as many as a man will hauâ—e or can get are so many dispensations with the lawes of God and sinnes of men These things are too impious to be defended and too manifest to be denyed Counterpoys p. 179. Dist. 34. Can. lector Papa potest contra Apostolum dispensare Caus. 25. q. 1. Can. sunt quidam Dispensatin Euangelio c. De concess praebend Tit. 8. Can. Proposuit Secundum plenituâ— inem potestatis de iure possumus supra ius dispensare Glossa paulo insr. Papa contra Apostolum dispensat c. Sum. confer p. 52. M. VVhites discou Bar. ag Gyff Inconst. of Brow p. 113 Ibid. Inquir into Th. VVhite Sep. Disposition of Kingdomes and Deposition of Princes You are wiser and I hope honester then thus to attempt thogh that receiued maxime amongst you No ceremony no Bishoppe no Bishoppe no King sauors too strongly of that weed but what though you be loyall to earthly Kings and their crownes and Kingdomes yet if you be Traytors and rebels against the King of his Church Iesus Christ and the scepter of his Kingdome not suffering him y his lawes and officers to reigne ouer you but in stead of them do stoupe to Antichrist in his offices and ordinances shall your loyaltie towards men excuse your treasons against the Lord though you now crie neuer so lowd we haue no King but Caesar Ioh. 19. 15. yet is there an other King one Iesus which shall returne and passe a heauy doome vpon the rebellious Luc. 19. 27. These enemies which would not haue me reigne ouer them bring them and slay them before me P. 36. Es. 36. 13. Sep. Parting stakes with God in conâ—ersion Not to speake of the errour of vniuersall grace and consequently of freewil that groweth on apace amongst you what doe you else but put in for a part with God in conuersion though not through freedome of will yet in a deuised Ministery the meanes of conuersion it being the Lords peculiar as well to appoint the outward Ministery of conuersion as to giue the inward grace 1. Cor. 3. 9. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 De Consecr d. 2. Ego Bereng Apol. Sep. Where say you are those rotten heapes of Transubstantiating of bread And where say I learned you your deuout kneeling to or before the bread but from that error of TransubstantiatioÌ„ Yea what lesse can it insinuate then eyther that or some other the like Idolatrous conceipt If there were not something more in the bread and wine then in the water at Baptisme or in the word read or preached Why should such solemne kneeling be so seuerely pressed at that time rather then vpon the other occasions And well and truely haue your own men affirmed that it were farre lesse sinne and appeareance of an Idolatry that is nothing so grosse to tye men in their prayers to kneele before a Crucifixe then before the bread and wine and the reason followeth for that papists commit an Idolatry farre more grosse and odious in worshipping the bread then in worshipping any other of their Images or Idols whatsoeuer Apol of the Min. of Lincoln Dioc. part 1. pag. 66. Sep. Adoring of Images To let passe your deuout kneeling vnto your Ordinary when you take the Oath of Canonicall obedience or
Scriptures Surely you euen ioyne Scriptures as you separate your selues This is right as your Pastor to proue all members of the visible Church elect and pretious stones cytes 1. K. 7. 9. where is speech only of Salomons house in the Forest of Lebanon his Porch for his Throne his Hall his Pallace for Pharachs daughter and when hee comes to describe the office of his imaginary doctor thwacks fourteene Scriptures into the margent whereof not any one hath any iust colour of inference to his purpose and in his discourse of the power of the Church that hee might seeme to honour his margent with shew of textes hath repeated sixe places twise ouer in the space of sixe lines For these of yovrs you might obiect the first to the Cainites not to vs Cain was cast out worthily Doe wee either denie or vtterly forbeare this censure Take heed you follow him not in your voluntary exile to the land of Nod. The second you might obiect to those mungrell Christians that match with Turkes and Pagans There are sonnes of God that is members of the visible Church and daughters of men which are without the bounds meere Infidels it is sinne for those sonnes to yoake themselues with those daughters What is this to vs Noah was righteous the multitude disobedient Who denies it yet Noah separated not from that corrupted Church till the flood separated him from the earth but continued an auncient Preacher of righteousnesse euen to that peruerse and rebellious generation But it sufficeth you that Caine and the Giants were separated from the rest We yeelde it what will follow hence saue onely that notorious malefactors must be cast out and professed Heathen not let into the Chruch VVe hold and wish no lesse your places euince no more These before the law In Leuit. 20. 24. 26. God chose out Israel from other people This was Gods act not theirs a sequestring of his Israelites from the Gentiles not of Israel from it selfe yours is your owne and from men in all maine points of your owne profession But therefore Israel must be holy If any man denie holinesse to be required of euery Christian let him feele your Maranatha In Nehem. 9. 2. The Israelites separated themselues from the strangers which were Infidels whether in their marriage or deuotion Neither Gods seruice nor an Israelites bedde was for Heathens This was not the constituting of a new Church but reforming of the olde If therefore you can parallell vs with Pagans and your selues will bee Iewes this place fittes you Lastly what if there be an hatred betwixt the world Christs true Disciples Ioh. 17. 14. 16 what if Peter charged his auditors to saue themselues from the errours and practise of that froward generation whose handes were yet freshly imbrued with the blood of Christ Act. 2. 40. What if the same which Peter taught Paul practised in separating his followers from hearing some obstinate and blasphemous Iewes Act. 19. 9 VVhat if the Church of Corinth were Saints by calling 1. Cor. 1. 2 and therfore must be separated from the yoake of Infidels 2. Cor. 6. 17 Are these your patternes Are these fit matches for your brethren baptized in the same water and name professing euery point of the same true faith vsing for substance the same worshippe with you Hee that saith he is in the light and hateth his brother is in darkenesse 1. Ioh. 2. 9. SECTION VI. What separation is to be made by Churches in their planting or restauration BVT all these examples perhappes are not so much to warrant what you haue done as to condemne the Church of England for what shee hath not done for such a separation she neither hath made nor doth make but standes actually one with all that part of the world within the kingdome without separation Loe here the maine ground of this Schisme which your Proto-Martyr Barrow hammers vpon in euery page an ill constitution Thus he comments vpon your wordes For where such prophane confuse multitudes without any exception separation or choice were all of them from publique idolatrie at one instant receiued or rather compel'd to be members of the Church in some parish or other where they inhabited without any due calling to the faith by the preaching of the Gospell going before or orderly ioyning together in the faith there being no voluntarie or particular confession of their owne faith and dueties made or required of any and lastly no holy walking in the faith amongst them who can say that these Churches consisting of this people were euer rightly gathered or built according to the rule of Christs Testament In his words and yours I finde both a mis-collection and a wronge charge For the former the want of noting one poore distinction breedes all this confusion of doctrine and separation of men for there is one case of a new Church to be called from Heathenisme to Christianity another of a former Church to be reformed from errours to more sincere Christianity In the first of these is required indeede a solemne initiation by Baptisme and before that a voluntarie and particular confession of faith and therefore a cleare separation and exception of the Christian from the Infidell In the latter neither is new Baptisme lawfull though some of you belike of olde were in hand with a rebaptization which not then speeding succeedeth now to your shame nor a new voluntary and particular confession of Faith besides that in Baptisme though very commendable will euer be prooued simply necessary to the being of a Church so long as the erring parties doe actually renounce their doctrines and in open profession imbrace the truth and as generally in the publique confession so particularly vpon good occasion giue iust testimonies of their repentance This is our case we did not make a new Church but mended an old your Clifton is driuen to this hold by necessity of argument Otherwise he sees there is no auoiding of Anabaptisme Mended saith your Doctor and yet admitted the miscelline rabble of the prophane Say now that such separation were not made Let some few be holy and the more part prophane Shall the lewdnesse of some disanul Gods couenant with others This is your mercy Gods is more who still held Israel for his when but fewe held his pure seruice Let that diuine Psalmist teach you how full the Tents of Israel were of mutinous rebels in the desert yet the piller by day night forsooke them not and Moses was so farre from reiecting them that he would not indure God should reiect them to his owne aduantage Looke into the blacke censures and bitter complaints of all the Prophets wonder that they separated not Looke into the increased masse of corruptions in that declined Church whereof the blessed eyes of our Sauiour were witnesses and maruell at his silent and sociable incuriousnesse yea his charge of not separating yee knowe not of
to bestow pitie and sorrow vpon you and your wrong You entertaine both harshly and with a churlish repulse What should a man do with such dispositions Let him stroke them on the backe they snarle at him and show their teeth Let him shew them a Cudgell they flie in his face You allow not our actions and returne our wrong Ours is both the iniurie and complaint How can this be You are the agents we sit still and suffer in this rent Yet since the cause makes the Schisme let vs inquire not whose the action is but whos 's the desert Our Church is deepe drencht in Apostacie and wee crie Peace Peace No lesse then a whole Church at once that not sprinkled or wetshod but drencht in Apostacie What did we fall off from you or you from vs Tell me were we euer the true Church of God And were we then yours We cannot fall vnlesse we once stood Was your Church before this Apostacie Show vs your ancestours in opinion Name me but one that euer taught as you doe and I vow to separate Was it not Then we fell not from you Euery Apostacie of a Church must needs be from the true Church A true Church and not yours And yet can there be but one true See now whether in branding vs with Apostasie you haue not proued yours to be no true Church Still I am ignorant Queene Maries dayes you say had a true Church which separated from Poperie chose them Ministers serued God holily from thence was our Apostacie But were not the same also for the most part Christians in King EDVVARDS dayes Did they then in that confused allowance of the Gospel separate Or I pray you were Cranmer Latimer Ridley Hooper and the rest parts of that Church or no Was there any other ordination of Ministers then from them Reiect these and all the world will hisse at you Receiue them and where is our Apostacie What Antichristianisme haue we whereof these were freed But you leape backe if I vrge you farre from hence to the Apostles times to feâ—ch our once true Church from farre that it might bee deare You shall not carue for vs we like not these bold ouer-leapes of so many Centuries I speake boldly you dare not stand to the trial of any Church since theirs Now I heare your Doctor say this Challenge sauors of Rome Antiquitie is with you a Popish plea We haue willingly taken vp our aduersaries at this by pretence their owne weapon You debarre it in the conscience of your owne nouell singularitie Yet your Pastor can be content to make vse of Tertullian alone against all Fathers That such things are iustly to be charged with vanitie as are done without any precept either of the Lord or of the Apostles And the Apostles did faithfully deliuer to the nations the Discipline they receiued of Christ which we must beleeue to be the tumultuary Discipline of the refined house-full at Amster dam What all in all ages and places till now Apostates Say if you can that those famous Churches wherein Cyprian Athanasius Ambrose Hierome Austen Chrysostome and the rest of those blessed lights liued were lesse deepe in this Apostacy then ours O Apostaticall Fathers that separated not yea say if you dare that other reformed Churches are not ouer the Ankles with vs in this Apostacy What hard newes is this to vs when as your Oracle dare say not much lesse of the Reformed Churches of Netherlands with whom you liue Thus he writes For not hearing of them in other Congregations in these countries this I answer That seeing by the mercie of God we haue seene and forsaken the corruptions yet remayning in the publique Ministration and condition of these Churches if they be all like to these of this Citie we cannot therfore partake with them in such case without declining and Apostasie from the truth which we haue our selues already receiued and professed See here to partake with them in Gods seruice is Apostacy If so in the accessoryes Alas what crime is in the principall It were but Apostasie to heare an English Sermon a Dutch is no lesse Woe is you that you dwell still in Meshech Good men it were not more happy for you then the Church that you were well in heauen No lesse then Apostasie Let no Reader bee appalled at so fearefull a word this is one of the tearmes of Arte familiar to this way Find but any one page of a Duch printed volume without Apostasie Excommunication Commingling Constitution and suspect it not theirs Heresie is not more frequent at Rome then Apostacy at Amsterdam nor Indulgences more ordinary there then here Excommunications Common vse makes terrible thinges easie Their owne Master Sl. for holding with the Dutch Baptisme and read-prayers is acknowledged to be cast our for an Apostate yea their Doctor Mr. Aâ—nsworth is noted with this marke from themselues there is much latitude as happy is in their Apostasie For when Stanshall Mercer and Iacob Iohnson were to be chosen Officers in their Church and exception was taken by some at their Apostacy answere was made It was not such Apostacy as debarred them from office it was but aslippe Iohn Marke whether as Isychius and Theophilact think the blessed Euangelist or some other holy Minister is by the whole Parlour at Amsterdam branded with this same Apostasie who departed indeed but from Paul in his iourney not from Christ in his faith and therefore his 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 is expounded by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Act. 15. 38. why do we think much to drinke of an Euangelists cuppe Yet let this ignorant Epistler teach his censorious answerer one point of his owne that is the Separatists skill and tell him that hee obiects two crimes to one poore Church which are incompatible want of Constitution and Apostasie Thus writes your Master of vs If it were admitted which can neuer bee proued that they sometimes had beene true established Churches Loe here we neuer had true Constitution therefore we are not capable of Apostasie If we once had it and so were true Churches heare what your Pastor saith As Christ giueth to all true Churches their being so wee must leaue it vnto him to take it away when and as he pleaseth And therefore since he hath not remoued his Candlesticke nor taken away his Kingdome in spight of all obiected Apostasies we still continue so and by consequent your separation vpon this ground is most vniust An Apostate had wont to bee the fearefull surname of damned Iulian Tortus was an easie accusar to whom yet we may say with Elihu Num dicis regi Apostata Behold now so many Apostates as men Holy Cyprian describes him by forsaking Christs colors taking vp arms for Gentilisme in life or herefie in iudgment And Augustine telles vs there cannot bee a greater sinne then Apostasie making else-where this sinner
yet they are twins and that so as eithers euill proues mutuall The sinnes of the Citie not reformed blemish the Church where the Church hath power and in a sort comprehends the State she cannot wash her hands of tollerated disorders in the CoÌ„mon-wealth hence is my comparison of the Church if you could haue seene it not the Kingdome of England with that of Amsterdam I doubt not but you could be content to sing the old song of vs Bona terra mala gens Our land you could like well if you might be Lordes alone Thankes be to God it likes not you and iustly thinkes the meanest corner too good for so mutinous a generation when it is weary of peace it will recall you you that neither in prison nor on the Seas nor in the Coasts of Virginea nor in your way nor in Netherland could liue in peace What shall we hope of your ease at home Where ye are all you thankful Tenants cannot in a powerful Christian state moue God to distinguish betwixt the knowen sinnes of the Citie and the Church How oft hath our gratious Soueraigne and how importunately beene solicited for a tolleration of Religions It is pittie that the Papists hyred not your aduocation who in this pointe are those true Cassanders which reuerend Caluin long since confuted Their wishes herein are yours To our shame and their excuse his Christian heart held that tolleration vnchristian and intollerable which you either neglect or magnifie Good Constantine wink 't at it in his beginning but as Dauid at the house of Zeruiah Succeeding times found these Canaanites to be prickes and thornes and therefore both by mulctes and banishments sought eyther their yeeldance or voydance If your Magistrates hauing once given their names to the Church indevour not to purge this Augean stable how can you preferre their Communion to ours But howsoeuer now least we should thinke your Land-lords haue too iust cause to pack you away for wranglers you turne ouer all the blame from the Church to the City yet your Pastor and Church haue so found the Citie in the Church and branded it with so blacke markes as that all your smooth extenuations cannot make it a lesse Babylon then the Church of England Beholde now by your owne Confessions either Amsterdam shall be or England shall not be Babylon These eleuen crimes you haue found and proclaimed in those Dutch and French Churches First That the assembles are so contriued that the whole Church comes not together in one So that the Ministers cannot together with the flock sanctifie the Lords day The presence of the members of the Church cannot be knowne and finally no publique action whether excommunication or any other can rightly be performed Could you say worse of vs Where neither Sabboth can be rightly sanctified nor presence or absence knowne nor any holy action rightly performed what can there be but mere confusion Secondly That they baptise the seede of them who are no members of any visible Church of whom moreouer they haue not care as of members neither admit their parents to the Lordes Supper Mere Babylonisme and sinne in constitution yea the same that makes vs no Church for what separation can there be in such admittance what other but a sinfull commixture How is the Church of Amsterdam now gathered from the world Thirdly That in the publique worshippe of God they haue deuised and vsed another forme of prayer besides that which Christ our Lord hath prescribed Mat. 6. reading out of a booke certain prayers inuented and imposed by man Beholde here our fellow Idolaters and as followes a daily Sacrifice of a set Seruice-booke which in stead of the sweete incense of spirituall prayers is offered to God very Swines-flesh a new Porâ—uise and an equal participation with vs of the curse of addition to the word Fourthly That rule and commandement of Christ Matth. 18. 15. they neither obserue nor suffer rightly to be obserued among them How oft haue you said that there can bee no sound Church without this course because no separation Beholde the maine blemish of England in the face of Amsterdam Fiftly That they worship God in the Idoll Temples of Antichrist so the Wine is mar'd with the vessell their seruice abhomination with ours neyther doe these Antichristian stones want all glorious ornaments of the Romish harlot yet more Sixtly That their Ministers haue their set maintenance after another manner then Christ hath ordained 1. Chr. 14. and that also such as by which any Ministery at all whether Popish or other might bee maintained Either tithes or as ill Beholde one of the maine Arguments wherby our Ministery is condemned as false and Antichristian falling heauie vppon our neighbours Seuenthly That their Elders change yearely and do not continue in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the Primitiue Church What can our Church haue worse then false Gouernours Both annuall and perpetual they cannot be VVhat is if not this a wrong in Constitution Eightly that they celebrate mariage in the Church as if it were a part of the Ecclesiasticall administration a foule shame and sinne and what better then our third Sacrament Ninthly That they vse a new censure of suspension which Christ hath not appointed no lesse then English presumption Tenthly That they obserue daies and times consecrating certaine daies in the yeare to the Natiuity Resurrection Ascension of Christ Beholde their Calender as truely possessed Two Commaundements solemnely broken at once and we not Idolaters alone Eleuenth which is last and worst that they receiue vnrepentant excommunicates to bee members of their Church which by this meanes becomes one one body with such as be deliuered vnto Sathan therefore none of Christs bodie England can be but a miscelline rabble of prophane men The Dutch and French Churches are belike no better who can be worse then an vnrepentant excommunicate Goe now and say It is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the world in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great Sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Goe say that the plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of many in that Church vnshut vp vncouered yea wilfully let loose infects all both persons and things amongst them Goe now and flie out of this Babylon also as the Hee-goates before the flocke or returne to ours But howeuer these errours bee grosse perhappes they are tractable Not the sinne vndoes the Church but obstinacy here is no euasion For behold you do no more accuse those Churches of corruption then of wilfulnesse for diuers times haue you dealt with them about these fearefull enormities yea you haue often deâ—ired that knowledge thereof might be by themselues giuen to the whole body of their Church or that at least they would take order that it might be done by you They haue refused both What
remaines but they be our fellow-Heathens and Publicanes And not they alone but all reformed Churches besides in Christendome which doe ioyntly partake in all these except one or two personall abhominations will you neuer leaue til you haue wrangled your selues out of the world But now I feare I haue drawne you to say that the hellish impieties both in the Citie and Church of Amsterdam are but frogges lyce flies moraine and other Egiptian plagues not preiudicing your Goshen Say so if you dare I feare they would soone make the Ocean your redde Sea and Virginia your Wildernesse The Church is Noahs Arke which gaue safetie to her Guests whereof ye are part but remember that it had vncleane beasts also and some sauage If the waues drowne you not yet me thinkes you should complaine of noysome society Sathans throne could not preiudice the Church of Pergamus but did not the Balaamites the Nicolaitanes Yet their heauenly communion stood and the Angell is sent away with but threates SECTION LIIII Conuersation with the world AS it were madnesse to denie that the Church should conuerse with the world in the affaires thereof So to denie her Communion in Gods holy things with any of those of the world which professe Christianity as yet vncensured is a point of Anabaptisticall Apostasie such of the world are still of the Church As my censure cannot eiect them so their sinne after my priuate endeuor of redresse cannot defile me I speake of priuate Communicants If an vnbidden Guest come with a ragged garment and vnwashen hands shall I forbeare Gods heauenly dainties The Master of the feast can say Friend how cam'st thou in hither not Friendes why came you hither with such a Guest God biddes me come he hath imposed this necessity neuer allowed this excuse My teeth shall not bee set on edge with the sower grapes of others If the Church cast not out the knowne vnworthy the sinne is hers If a man will come vnworthy the sinne is his But if I come not because he comes the sinne is mine I shall not answer for that others sinne I shall answere for mine owne neglect An other mans fault cannot dispence with my duetie SECTION LV. The impure mixtures of the Church of England AS there is no element which is not through many mixtures departed from the first simplicitie So no Church euer breathed in so pure an Ayre as that it might not iustly complaine of some thicke and vnwholsome euaporations of errour and sinne If you challenge an immunity you are herein the true broode of the auncient Puritanes But if too many sinnes in practise haue thickened the Ayre of our Church yet not one heresie that smoake of the bottomlesse pit hath neuer corrupted it and therefore iustly may I auerre that here you might drawe in the cleare Ayre of the Gospell No wherevpon earth more freely And if this be but the opinion of custome you whom absence hath helped with a more nice and dainty sent speake your worst Shew vs our heresies and shame vs you haue done it and behold foure maine infections of our English ayre The first the smoake of our Canons Wittily I feare the great Ordinances of the Church haue troubled you more with the blow then the smoake For you tell vs of their Plantation against the Kingdome of Christ What Kingdome The Visible Church Which is that Not the Reformedst peece of ours whole best are but Goats and Swine Not the close Nicodemians of your owne Sect amongst vs which would be loath to be visible Not forrainers to them they extend not None therefore in all the world but the English Parlour-full at Amsterdam Can there be any truer Donatisme Crie you still out of their poysoning the Ayre We hold it the best clensed by the batteries of your idle fancies by ridding you from our Ayre and by making this your Church inuisible to vs smart you thus till we complaine The second is the plague or Leprosie of sinne vnshut vp and vncouered Wee knowe that sinne is as ill as the Diuill can make it a most loathsome thing in the eies of God and his Angels and Saints and we grant to our griefe that among so many millions of men there may be found some thousands of Lepers Good lawes and censures meete with some others escape It is not so much our fault as our griefe But that this Leprosie infects all persons and things is shamefully ouer-reach't Plague and Leprosie haue their limits beyond which is no contagion If a man come not neare them if hee take the winde in an open ayre they infect not such is sinne It can infect none but the guiltie Those which acte or assent to or bear with it or detest it not are in this pollution But those which can mourne for it and cannot redresse it are free from infection How many foule Lepers spiritually did our Sauiour see in the publique Ayre of the Iewish Church wherewith yet he ioyned and his not fearing infection so much as gracing the remnants of their ruinous Church Were those seuen thousand Israelites whose knees bowed not to Baal infected with the Idolatrie of their neighbours yet continued they still partes of the same Church But this yet exceedes Not onely all persons but all thinges What Our Gospell Our heauen earth Sea Our Bookes Coyne Commodities Beholde you see the same heauen with vs you haue no Bibles but ours our Ayre in his circular motion comes to bee yours the water that washeth our Iland perhappes washeth your handes Our vncleane Siluer I feare maintaines you Our Commodities in parte inrich your Land-lords and yet all things amongst vs infected you are content to take some euil from your neighbors The third is our blasting Hierarchie which suffers no good thing that is no Brownist no singular fancy for what good things haue we but yours to grow or prosper amongst vs but withers all both budde and branch would to God the root also The last is the daily sacrifice of a seruice-booke an incense how euer vnsauorie to you yet such as all Churches in Christendome hold sweete and offer vp as fitte for the nostrils of the Almightie we are not alone thus tainted al Christian Churches that are or haue bin present the same Censers vnto God But ours smels strong of the Popes Portuise See whether this be any better then triuiall cauilling If either an ill man or a Diuill shall speake that which is good may not a good man vse it If a good Angell or man shall speake that which is euill is it euer the better for the Deliuerer If Sathan himselfe shall say of Christ Thou art the sonne of the liuing God shall I feare to repeate it Not the Authour but the matter in these things is worthie of regard As Ierome speakes of the poysoned workes of Origen and other dangerous
4. 41. Rom. 1. 1. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 1. Thess. vlt. ad fin Iere. 15. 19. Vide Tremel Iun. Num. 16. Mat. 15. ad fin 2. Chro. 19 2. 1. Cor. 6. ad fin Nulla cum malis Conuivia vel colloquia misceantur simusque ab ijs tam separati quam sunt illi ab Ecclesia Dei profugi Cypr. l. 1. Epist. ad Cornel. 2. Char act of Beast praef Iohns Inquir Ioh. 6. 68. H. Cl. Epistle before Treatis of sinne ag Holy Gh. Neque propter paleam relinquim are am Domini neque propter pisces malos rumpimus retia Domini August Ep. 48. Answ. Counterpoyson p. 2. Counter p. p. 7 8. c Sep. The separation we haue made in respect of our knowledge and obedience is indeed late and new yet is it in the nature and causes thereof as auncient as the Gospell which was first founded in the enmity which God himselfe put betwixt the seede of the woman and the seede of the serpent Gen. 3 15 â—useb hâ—st Eccl Hen Steph. Apâ—l Herod Foâ— Aâ—t monum H. N. his booke Gal. 1. 6. Eph. 6. 17. Colos. 1 5. 1. Tin 1. 11. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sep. Which enmity hath not onely beene successiuely continued but also visibly manifested by the actuall separation of all true Churches from the world in their collection and constitution before the law vnder the law and vnder the Gospell Gen. 4 13 14 16 6. 1 2 7 1 7. with 1 Pet 3 20 21 12. 2 Iâ—â— 20 24 26 Neh 9 2 Ioh 17 14 16 Act. 2 40 19 9 1 Cor 6 17 Iren. de Valentin l. 1. Ianumerabilâ— multitudinâ—m scripturarum quas ipsi sinâ—erunt afferunt ad stuporem insensatorum Vid. Preface to Master Iacobs and Iohnsons Confer Barr. pass Descript of true visib Ch Nihil autem â—irum fi ex ipsius instrumento aâ—tentur argumenta cum oporteat haereses esse quae esse non possent si non perperam scripturae intelligi possent Tertull. de resur Ibid So Barrow tearmes Mast. Gyff Reâ—ut p. 102. Si Christianus Iudaicae praeuaricanti carnaliter coniungatur a commumone Ecclesiaesegregetur Dist. 28. q. 1 Caue cap. si quis Iudaicae c. 1. Pet. 3. 19. 2. Pet. 2. 5. Sep. Which separation the Church of England neither hath made nor doth make but stands actually one with althat part of the world within the kingdom without separation for which cause amongst others we haue chosen by the grace of God rather to separate our selues to the Lord from it then with it from him in the visible constitution of it In his Preface to the Reader and in his causes of separ defended p. 4 Eiusdem p. 10 Resutat of M. Gyff p 22. 2. Transgress p 51 52. 55. 66 70. 85. 86. c. Inconstancâ— of Brown p. â—o Inquiry into M. White confessed by Fr. Iohnson p. 63. Passag 'twixt Clifton and Smith And concerning the constitution of the Churches c. But the constituting of Churches now after the defection of Antichrist may more properly be called a repairing then a constituting c. p. 60. psal 106. Matth. 23. Reuel 34. Reuel â— 24. Bar. p. 22. 55. Fr. Iohns ag M. H. Act. Mon. passim Troubl and excom pa. 191 M. Spr. p. 1. Fr. Iun. lib. de Eccles. Ratihabitio retrohaâ—â— c. Subsequens consensus Iacob in Leam fecit cos coniuges d. 29. q 1. S. sed obijcitur Barr. ag Gyff H. Answ. Counter p. p. 17â— Colos. 2. 5. Tertull. de Prescript Tu vt homo extrimsecus vitumquemque nosti putas quod vides vides autem quonsque oculos habes sed oculi Domini sunt alti Homo in faciem Deus in praecordiae contemplatur Principles inferences concerning the visible Ch. An. 1607 p 13 Part of Constitution how farr requisite and whether hindred by Constraint D. 〈…〉 Brownists Brow◠〈◊〉 of true Christians Inquir into M. White Answ. ibid. Arist. Pol. 3 c 1. Arist. Pol 3 c. 1 Edesius Frumentius pueri a Meropio Tyrio-Philosophâ— in Indian deportati postea ibi Christianam religionem plantarunt Ruffin l. 1. â— 9. Faemina iâ—ter Iberos 2. Chron. 33. 16 2. Chr. 34. 32. 33 2. Chron. â—5 13 Barr. ag Ciff Brow Reform without tarry Greene wood Confer with Cooper Brow refor without tar Confer with D. And M. Hutch Confer with D. An. Refor without tar Ber. Fides Suadenda non cogenda Counterpois Dixit Paterfamilias seruis Quoscunque inueneritis cogite intrare c. Aug. â—p 48. Pless de Eccles. c. 10 Augustin Quod si cogiper legem aliquem vel ad bona licuisset vos ipsi miseri 〈◊〉 nobis ad fidem purissimam cogi debuistis sed absit a nostra conscientia vt ad 〈…〉 August Epist. 48. 〈◊〉 68. Qui freneticum ligat qui 〈…〉 Quod 〈◊〉 umus sanctum est Bar. and Greenew pasâ—im H. answ Counterp Act Monum Edit 5. p. 1180. Counterp 226. P. Martyr P. Fagius Bucer c. Sixe Arti. 1547 Pag. 1182. Col. 2. 60. Act. Monum Pag. 999. 1000. Act Monum Edit 5. p. 1002. Bar. ag Gyff Conference with Sperin M. Egerton Greenw Bar. Arg. to M. Car. twr M. Trauers M. Chark Browne Reform without tarrying M. Smith ag R. Clifton Principl Iâ—fer pag. 11. Separ To the Title of Ring-leader wherewith it pleaseth this Pistler to stile me I answere that if the thing I haue done be good it is good and commendable to haue beene forward in it if it be euill let it be reproued by the light of Gods word and that God to whom I haue done that I haue done will I doubt not giue me both to see and to heale mine errour by speedy repentance if I haue fledde away on foote I shall returne on Horse-backe But as I durst neuer sâ—t foote into this way but vpon a most sound and vnresist able conuiction of conscience by the word Ier. 23. 32. Ezech. 13. 2. of God as I was perswaded so must my retyring be wrought by more solide reasons from the same word then are to be found in a thousand such pretty pamphlets and formall flourishes as this is Pro. 9. 21. Separ Your pitying of vs and sorrowing for vs especially for the wrong done by vs were in you commendable affections if by vs iustly occasioâ—ed but if your Church bee deepelye drencht in Apostacie and you crie Peace Peace when suddaine and certaine desolation is at hand it is you that do wrong though you make the complaint and so being cruell towards your selues your owne whome you flatter you cannot be truely pitifull towards others whom you bewaile A Treatise of the Ministery of England against M. H pag. 125. H. Amsworth in his fore-speech to his Count. Inqu into VVh Tertul. l. de Orat Tert. l. de praescript So de Virginib Veland That no continâ—ance of time can prejudice
the charges your ringing of hallowed bels for the soule your singing the Corpes to the graue from the Church style your praying ouer or for the dead especially in these words That God wold hasten his kingdome that we with this our brother though his life were neuer so wretched and death desperate and all other departed in the true faith of thy holy name may haue our perfect consummation both in body and soule Sleeping-places Caemiteria Euseb. l. 7. c. 12. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Splendid ssimae sepulturae tradidit Eus. l. 7. c. 15 Curatio funeris conditio sepulturae pompa exequiarum magis sunt viuorum solatia quam subsidia mortuorum Aug. de Ciuit l. 1. c. 12. Si enim paterna vestis annulus anto char est posteris nullo modo ipsa spernenda sunt corpora Aug de Ciuit. l. 1. c. 13. Orig. contr Cels. l. 8. Rationolem animam honorare didicimus c. Sep. Your generall doctrines and your particular practises agree in this as in the most other things like Harpe and Harrow In word you professe many truthes which in deede you denie These and many mo popish deuises by others at large discouered to the world both for pompe and profite are not onely not rased and buried in the dust but are aduanced amongst you aboue all that is called God Sep. You are farre from doing to the Romish Idols as was done to the Aegyptian Idols Mythra and Serapis whole prieâ—â—s were expelled their Ministery and Monuments exposed to vtter scorn and desolation their Temples demolished and raced to the very foundation Socrat. Hist. Eccles. l. 5. c. 16. 7. Bed hâ—st Eccl. l. 1. Cit. Gregor Ep. Aug suoc 30. Edilbeâ—toregi c. 32. Contra sibi c. Sed Hâ—râ—ticoruÌ„ templa vastata a Constantino Euseb. l. 3. c. 63. Aug. de ciuit l. 8 c. 27. Hocker 5. b. c. 13 Id Aug. contr Maxâ—min Arian Nonne sitemplum c. Optat. Mileuitâ—n lib. 6. I. auistis proculdubiâ— pallas Iudicate quid de codicâ— bus secistis Aut vtrâ—mque lauate aut c. Sâ— quod tangit aspectus lauandum est vt parietes c. Videmus rectum videmus coeluÌ„ c. haec a vobis lauari non possunt Athanas. Apol. Euseb. de vita Const. Otho Friâ—ing l. â— c. 3. Sep. But your temples especially your Cathedrall and mother Churches stand still in their proude Maiestie possessed by Arch Bishops and Lordbishops like the Flamins and Archssamins amongst the Gentiles from whom they were deriued Lumb lib. 4. dâ—st 24. Isid. l. 7. Eâ—imol cap 12 and furnished with all manner of pompous and superstitious monuments as â—arued and paynted Images massing Copes and surplices chaunting and Organ-musicke and many other glorious ornaments of the Romish Harlot by which her Maiesty is commended to and admired by the vulgar so farr are you in these respects for being gon or flâ—d yea or crept either out of Babylon Theuphilus Epâ—sâ— cum â—aeteras sâ—â—tuas deorum confiâ—ngeret vâ—am integram seruari iâ—â—sst eamque in loco publico eâ—exit vt Gentiles tempore progrediente non inficiarentur se â—umsmâ—di Dâ—us colâ—sse 〈◊〉 Grammatâ— us hac dere valded scruciatus Dixit grauem plagam religioni Grâ—corum inctâ—â—â—m quod illa vna statcia noâ— euerteretur Socrat. l. 5. c. 16. Sep. Now if you be thus Babylonish where you repute your selues most Syonlike and thus confounded in your owne euidence what defence could you make in the things wherof an aduersary would challenge you If your light be darkenesse how great is your darknes Sep. But for that not the separation but the cause makes the schismaticke and least you should seeme to speak euill of the thing you know not and to condemne a cause vnheard you lay downe in the next place the supposed cause of our separation against which you deale as insufficiently And that you pretend to bee none other then your consorting with the Papist in certaine Ceremonies touching which and our separation in regard of them thus you write M. H. If you haue taken but the least knowledge of the grounds of our iudgement and practise how dare you thus abuse both vs and the reader as if the onely or chiefe grouÌ„d of our separatioÌ„ were your popish ceremonies but if you go only by guesse hauing neuer so much as read ouer one treatise published in our defeÌ„ce yet stick not to passe this your censorious doom both vpon vs it I leaue it to the reader to iudge whether you haue beene more lauish of your censure or credit Most vniust is the censure of a cause vnknowne though in it selfe neuer so blame-worthy which neuerthelesse may be prais-worthy for ought he knowes that censures it Inq into M. VVhite * VVhich vpon the Lords prayer hath confuted some positions of that sect Bar. Grecuâ— passim Penâ— Exam. Sep. And touching the ceremonies here spoken of howsoeuer we haue formerly refused them submitting as all others did and dâ—e to the Prelates spirituall Iurisdiction herein through ignorance strayning at Gnats and swallowing Camels yet are we verily perswaded of them and so were before we separated that they are but as leaues of that tree and as badges of that man of sinne whereof the Pope is head and the prelates shoulders And so we for our parts see no reason why any of the Bishops sworne seruants as all the Ministers in the Church of England are Canonically should make nice to weare their Lords liueryes Which ceremonies notwithstanding wee know wel enough howsoeuer you for aduantage extenuate and debase them vnto vs to be aduanced and preferred in your Church before the preaching of the Gospell 1. Cor. 4. 1. Hierom. in Ps. 44. Heming Class 3 Potest Eccles. c. 10. Vtcuique suus clerus sua plebs in his quae Domini sunt piè obsequerentur Ignat. Epi. ad Tarsens Sep. It is much that they being not so much as Reede nor any part of the building as you pretend should ouerturne the best builders amongst you as they doe Sep. The proportion betwixt Zoar them holdes well Zoar was a neighbour vnto Sodome both in place and sinne and obnoxious to the same destruction with it and it was â—ots errour to desire to haue it spared Gen. 19. 15 18 19 20 and so he neuer found rest nor peace in it but forsooke it for feare of the same iust iudgement which had ouertaken the rest of the Cities vers 30. The application of this to your ceremonies I leaue to your selfe and them to that destruction to which they are deuoted by the Lord. Fidem Domino habere debuerat quise cam seruaturum propter cumdixerat Mercer in Genes Sep. How we wold haue behaued our selues in the Temple where the mony-changers were and they that solde Doues we shal answere you when you proue your Church to be the Temple of God compiled and built of spiritually-hewen
and liuely stones 1. Kin. 5. 17. 18 6. 7. 1. pet 2. 5. and of the Cedars Firs and Thyne trees of Lebanon 2. Chr. 2. 8. framed and set together in that comely order which a greater then Salomon hath prescriâ—ed vnto which God hath promised his presence But whilst we take it to be as it is a confused heape of dead and defiled and polluted stones and of all rubbish of Bryers and brambles of the wildernesse for the most part fitter for burning then building we take our selues rather bound to shew our obedience in departing from it then our valour in purging it and to follow the prophets councel in flying out of Babylon as the hee goats before the flock Ieâ— 50. 8 Sep. And what I pray you is the valour which the best hearted and most zealous Reformers amongst you haue manifested in driuing out the Mony-changers doth it not appeare in this that they suffer themselues to be driuen out with the two stringed Whippe of Ceremonies and subscription by the Mony-changers the Chancellers and Officials which sell. sinnes like Doues and by the chiefe priests the Bishoppes which set them on worke so farre are the most zealous amongst you from driuing out the Mony-changers as they themselues are driuen out by them because they will not change with them to the vtmost farthing Bar. Refor without Tar. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 VVee charge him not to serue any more So Can. 15. Can. 25. Cum compertuÌ„ fuerit deponatur Can. 10. De Clericatus honore periclitabitur Can. 2. E clero deponatur sit alienus a Canone Can. 17. et Can. 18. A ministerio cessare debuerit Concil Sardic c. 4. CoÌ„cil Carth. 4. c. 48. 56. 57. Leo. Ep. 1. Sect. 5. Cypr. l. 3. Ep. 9. Sâ—cr l. 2. c. 21. Bar ag Gyff p. 27. 88. Sep. For the Wafers in Geneua and disorders in Corinth they were corruptions which may and doe or the like vnto them creep into the purest Churches in the world for the reformation wherof Christ hath giuen his power vnto his Church that such euils as are brought in by humane frailty may by diuine authority bee purged out This power and presence of Christ you want holding all by homage or rather by vilenage vnder the Prelates vnto whose sinfull yoake you stoup in more then Babylonish bondage bearing and approuing by personall communion infinite abhominations Troubl Excom at Amsterd An tu solus Ecclesia es Et qui te offenderit a Christo excluditur Hieron Eriphan Cypr. Solus in caelum ascend Pupianus Et ad Acesium Nouatianum Constant. Erigito tibi scalam Acesi ad caelum solus ascendito Socr. l. 1. C. 7. Bar. Gyff ref So some of their owne haue termed their excommunication Confess by M. Iohns Inqu p. 65 Col. 1. 18. Sep. And in these two last respects principally your Babylonish confusion of all sorts of people in the body of your Church without separation and your Babylonish bondage vnder your spirituall Lords the Prelates we account you Babylon and flie from you Amari Parens Episcopus debet non timeri Hier. ad Theophilum Sep. M. H hauing formerly expostulated with vs our supposed impietie in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon in England proceeds in the next place to lay downe our madnesse in chusing a substantiall Babylon in Amsterdam and if it be so found by due trial as he suggesteth it is hard to say whether our impiety or madnes be the greater Sep. Belike M. H. thinkes we gather churches here by towne-rowes as they doe in England and that all within the parish procession are of the same Church Wherefore else tels hee vs of Iewes Arrians and Anabaptists with whom we haue nothing common but the streetes and market-place It iâ— the condition of the Church to liue in the world and to haue ciuill society with the men of this world 1. Cor. 5. 10. Ioh. 17. 13. But what is this to that spirituall communion of the saints in the fellowshippe of the Gospell wherin they are separated and sanctified from the world vnto the Lord Ioh 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. Cor. 6. 17. 18. Separation from the world how required Ioh. 17. 16. 1. Cor. 1. 2. 1. Cor. 3. 3. Sep. We indeed haue much wickednes in the Citie where we liue you in the Church â—ut in earnest doe you imagine we account the Kingdome of England Babylon or the citie of Amsterdam Syon It is the Church of England or state Ecclesiasticall which we account Babylon and from which we withdraw in spirituall communion â—ut for the common-wealth and Kingdome as we honor it aboue all the states in the world so wold we thankfully embrace the meanest corner in it at the extreamest conditions of any people in the Kingdome Cassand de Offic boni viri Bellar. de Laicis Euseb. in vita Const. Fr. Iohns Articles ag the Frâ— and Dutch Churches Bar. ag Gyss Counrtepoys Sep. The hellish impieties in the citie of Amsterdam doe no more preiudice our heauenly communion in the Church of Christ then the frogs lyce flyes moraine and other plagues ouerspreading Egypt did the Israelites when Goshen the portion of their inheritance was free Exod 8. 19. nor then the deluge wherewith the whole world was couered did Noah when he and his family were safe in the Arke Gen. 7. nor then sathans throne did the Church of Pergamus being established in the same citie with it Reâ— 2. 12 13. Sep. It is 〈◊〉 will of God and of Christ that his Church should abide in the world and conuerse with it in the affaires therof which are common to both But it is the Apostasie of Antichrist to haue communion with the vvorld in the holy things of God which are the peculiars of the Church and cannot without great sacriledge be so prostituted and prophaned Duobus modâ— non te maâ—ulat malus vidâ—licet si non consentis si redargâ—is d. 23. q. 4. a malis Sep. The ayre of the Gospell which you draw in is nothing so free and cleare as you make shevv it is only because you are vsed to it that makes you so iudge 1. Canons Sep. The thicke smoake of your Canons especially of such as are planted against the Kingdome of Christ the visible Church and the administration of it do both obscure and poyson the ayre which you all draw in and wherein you breath 2. Sinne vncensured Sep. The plaguy-spirituall-leprosie of sinne rising vp in the foreheads of so many thousands in the Church vnshut vp vncouered infects all both persons and things amongst you Leu. 13. 45. 46. 47. 2. cor 6 17. Certe nullius crimen maculat nescientem Aug. Ep. 48. 1. Reg. 19. 18. 3. Heirarchy Sep. The blasting Hierarchie suffers no good thing to grow or prosper but withers all both budde and branch 4. Seruice-booke Sep. The daily sacrifice of the seruice-booke which in stead of spirituall prayer sweete as incense you offer vp morning and
as cleane as yours is schismaticall if you should measure faculties by their exercise Naturall rest should be the greatest enemie to vertue and the solitarie Christian should be miserable This power of ours is not dead but sleepeth When it awaketh vnto more frequent vse which we earnestly pray for looke you for the first handsell of it None can be more worthy as it is we offend not more in defect then you in excesse Of whom that your Lazarello of Amsterdam G. I. could say that you haue excommunications as ready as a Prelate hath a prison Christ is in many that feele him not but wee want not the power onely but the presence of Christ How so He was with vs while you were here Did he depart with you will the separatists engrosse our Sauiour to themselues and as Cyprian said of Pupianus goe to heauen alone yea confine the God of heauen to Amsterdam What insolence in this we haue him in his Word wee haue him in his Sacraments we haue him in our hearts we haue him in our profession yet this enemie dare say we want him Wherein I suppose in our censures VVe haue Peters keyes as his true successours both in office and doctrine our fault is that we vse them not as you would VVhat Church doth so your first Martyr doth as zealously inueigh against the practise of Geneua and all other reformed Congregations in this point as against vs both for the wooden dagger as he termes it of suspension and for their Consistoriall excommunications VVoe were to all the world if Christ should limit his presence onely to your fashions Heere you found him and heere you left him VVould to God wee did no more grieue him with our sinnes then you please him in your presumptuous censures in the rest you raile against our Prelates and vs Can any man think that Christ hath left peaceable spirits to goe dwell with railers Indeed yours is free-hold so you wold haue it free from subiection free from obedience This is loosenesse more then liberty You haue broken the bonds and cast the cordes from you but you miscall our Tenure VVe hate villenage no lesse then you hate peace and hold in capite of him that is the head of his body the Church vnder whose easie yoake wee doe willingly stoope in a sweet Christian freedome abhorring and reprouing and therefore notwithstanding our personall communion auoiding all abhominations In these two respects therefore of our confusion and bondage wee haue well seene in this discourse how iustly your Sion accounts vs Babylon since it is apparent for the one that here is neither confusion nor Babylonish nor without separation For the other no bondage no seruility Our Prelats being our Fathers not our Masters and if Lords for their external dignity yet not Lords of our Faith and if both these your respects were so yet so long as we doe inviolably hold the foundation both directly and by necessary sequell any railer may terme vs but no Seperatist shall proue vs Babylon you may flye whether you list would God yet further vnlesse you had more loue SECTION LII The view of the sinnes and disorders of others whereupon obiected and how farre it should affect vs. I Neede no better Analyser then your selfe saue that you doe not onely resolue my parts but adde more whereas euery motion hath a double terme from whence and whither both these could not but fall into our discourse hauing therefore formerly expostulated with you for your since you will so terme it impiety in forsaking a ceremonious Babylon of your owne making in England I thought it not vnfit to compare your choice with your refusall England with Amsterdam which it pleaseth you to intitle a substantiall Babylon impiety and madnes are titles of your owne choice let your guiltinesse be your owne accuser The truth is my charity and your vncharitablenes haue caused vs to mistake each other my charity thus Hearing both at Middleburgh and here that certaine companies from the parts of Nottingham and Lincolne whose Harbinger had beene newly in Zeland before me meant to retyre themselues to Amsterdam for their full libertie not for the full approbation of your Church not fauouring your maine opinions but emulating your freedome in too much hate of our ceremonies and too much accordance to some grounds of your hatred I hoped you had beene one of their guides both because Lincoln-shire was your Country and Master Smith your Oracle and Generall Not daring therefore to charge you with perfect Brownisme what could I thinke might bee a greater motiue to this your supposed change then the view of our so oft proclaimed wickednesse and the hope of lesse cause of offence in those forraine parts this I vrged fearing to goe deeper then I might bee sure to warrant Now comes my charitable answerer and imputes this easines of my challenge to my ignorance and therefore will needes perswade his Christian reader that I knew nothing of the first separation because I obiected so little to the second It were strange if I should thinke you gather Churches there by Town-rowes as we in England who know that some one prison might hold all your refined flocke you gathered here by Hedge-rowes but there it is easier to tell how you diuide then how you gather let your Church be an intire body inioying her owne spirituall communion yet if it be not a corrasiue to your heart to conuerse in the same streetes and to be ranged in the same Towne-rowes with Iewes Arians Anabaptists c. you are no whit of kinne to him that vexed his righteous soule with the vncleanenesses of foule Sodom That good man had nothing but ciuill society with those impure neighbours he differed from them in Religion in practise yet could hee not so carelesly turne off this torment His house was Gods Church wherein they had the spirituall communion of the Saints yet whiles the Citie was so vncleane his heart was vnquiet We may you graunt haue ciuill society with ill men spirituall communion onely with Saints Those must be accounted the world these onely the Church your owne allegations shall condemne you They are not of the world saith Christ as I am not of the world Both Christ and they were partes of the Iewish Church The Iewish Church was not so sanctified but the most were extreamely vncleane therefore wee may bee partes of a visible vnsanctified Church and yet be separate from the world Saint Paul writes to his Corinthians sanctified in Christ Saints by calling True but not long after he can say ye are yet carnall In his second Epistle Come out saith he from among them But from whom From Infidels by profession not corrupted Christians SECTION LIII The nearenesse of the State and Church and the great errours found by the Separatists in the French and Dutch Churches THE Church and State if they be two