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A42578 Veteres vindicati, in an expostulatory letter to Mr. Sclater of Putney, upon his Consensus veterum, &c. wherein the absurdity of his method, the weakness of his reasons are shewn, his false aspersions upon the Church of England are wiped off, and her faith concerning the Eucharist proved Gee, Edward, 1657-1730. 1687 (1687) Wing G462; ESTC R22037 94,746 111

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himself a greater liberty as to Rhetorical flights in his Homilies since in other places he bestows Titles as high and as great as these on other Apostles which if I take in the same sense that you do these the Good Father is made inconsistent with himself and to preach down-right falsities and contradictions I 'll instance onely in St. John and St. Paul do but give your self the trouble to reade over his Preface to his Comments on St. John's Gospel and tell me then whether you do not find him among other large Elogies calling St. John the Pillar of all the Churches throughout the world 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tom. 2. p. 555. ad fin Edit Savil. and telling us that He had the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven But for St. Paul I am confident I can make even you confess that He mounts him above St. Peter himself concerning whom you have furnished a Catalogue of such glorious Titles Look but upon his Comment on that a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Chrys Tom. 3. p. 679. saying of St. Paul's 2 Cor. 11.28 about his care of all the Churches a passage by the bye that is more than all your whole Church can patch together for St. Peter how he advances our Apostle there he tells us that St. Paul had the care and charge not of a single House but of Cities and Countreys and Nations yea of the whole world b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Orat. 5. contr Jud. Tom. 6. pag. 364. in another place that he was intrusted with the charge and Government of the whole world which is the very same Commission and as full and clear as that great one which is your chief and best that you quote for St. Peter of his having the charge of the Church throughout the world And he does not onely make St. Paul 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 equal in dignity to St. Peter but which is much more advances him above him as I undertook to prove c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 D. Chrys Orat. 9. Tom. 6. p. 97. Edit Savil. No one says he speaking of St. Paul is greater than he no nor equal to him neither c. By this time I hope I have made it evident that St. Chrysostome will not doe your business that he is as much nay more against you than for you and that you and I ought both of us to own our several Quotations for Rhetorical Flights since in another d 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 D. Chrys Tom. 8. p. 115. Edit Savil. place if you and I be obstinate against any allowances for these passages He spoils all we have both brought when he tells us That the Apostles were appointed by God to be Rulers not Temporal Rulers to receive each his Nation or City but Spiritual Rulers intrusted in Common All together with the Care of the Catholick Church throughout the World. Therefore as all your Authorities from St. Chrysostome for St. Peter's Supremacy are out of doors pag. 15. so that from St. Augustine comes too late having the same fault as I could most easily shew but do not think I need to trouble my self with it pag. 15. or what the Popes Legates said at Chalcedon that being to make a Man his own witness Especially since that great Council had so little value for what they said that they did notwithstanding all the Pope's opposition decree that Constantinople should enjoy equal Privileges with old Rome and which is more did declare e Etenìm antiquae Romae Throno QVOD VRBS ILLA IMPERARET jure Patres Privilegia tribuere EADEM CONSIDERATIONE moti 150 Dei amantissimi Episcopi S. Sancto novae Romae Throno AEQVALIA PRIVILEGIA addixerunt c. Concil Chalced cap. 28. Edit Bever Oxon. that as well old as new Rome had such great Privileges bestowed upon them purely because they were successively the Imperial Cities of the world CHAP. XIV The ridiculous Vse of his Testimonies shewn and his foolish Aspersions upon the Church of England wiped off THese Testimonies say you I content my self withall as sufficient to shew pag. 15. I have not gone rashly on without the advice of ancient Councellors c. It had been one further happiness for your Testimonies could they but have contented others as well as you say they have done you but how can that be expected since they are as I think I have fully shewn far from being satisfactory because altogether insufficient for the design you gather'd them for In a word you have neither proved that Christ left his Church in a Monarchical State nor that St. Peter was made the sole Head and Dictator as you word it of the Catholick Church nor lastly that the Bishops of Rome have and do succeed him in such a charge Had you done these you had done your cause service to attempt and not to do it is but to tell the World that it cannot be done and what thanks you will have for that I can very easily guess All these Testimonies you sum up with St. Bernard pag. 15. but since he lived far too late to be admitted a Witness about these things and you might as well have quoted those two Monsters of Men Gregory the Seventh and Innocent the Third for those purposes I must set him aside No Body ought to wonder that you are pleased with what you have thus scraped together or that you think you have found something since every one likes his own best how little reason you had to flatter your self I think I have abundantly proved but on you go and now strongly imagine that the wise God and his Son could leave which is a little too bold with God did leave might surely serve you none other at his Ascension pag. 16. c. To be short Sir all this pleasant fancy is answered already and all you have so carefully been about hitherto proves but a Dream a Delusion proceeding from your examining things by false Measures and through a false Glass But for all this This must be the Church you called Catholick in your Creed and till now did not so well mind c. Alas Sir that a Man of your parts and years should not before this have minded what Catholick meant and where that Church was when there 's scarce a person of any tolerable sense in England that cannot with a great deal of readiness give a sufficient account of these things but here is the Mystery you have found that the Church of Rome is this very Church mentioned in our common Creed and that when we profess we believe the Holy Catholick Church we mean tho' we do not mind it the Church of Rome It is to no purpose to endeavour to reclaim such Men as you since you seem to have abandoned the common principles by which Mankind govern themselves for else how could you dream of a part being the whole a Member the Body That the Church of
they saw good c. To be brief with you on this point if you speak here of particular Persons in our Church it is utterly false since they are all obliged to believe that to be the Canon of Scripture which is set down in the Articles of our Church and there is not one Man of our Church that is at liberty to believe which he pleases and to reject which he pleases from being Canonical Scripture to him and for Traditions received in the Church no particular Man hath any more power over them than over the number of the Canonical Books But if you speak of our Church it self here which your words without stretching will not bear it is as false of Her since she believes and delivers those Books onely as Canonical which the Primitive Church believed and delivered down to her as such She rejects none as Apocryphal which were not also rejected as such by the Primitive Church as the Famous and most Learned Bishop Cosin hath most incomparably proved it for her in that his excellent Scholastick History of the Canon of Scripture And for Traditions she rejects none but such as have no evidence nor probability of their ever having been of use in the Primitive Church or such as are of no moment in which case I never saw reason why the National Church of England hath not as much Authority herein to judge of these things as the Church of Rome her self who for example sake hath left off giving the Communion to Infants tho' a Tradition of the Catholick Church So that I cannot for my Life see what you would fain tho' most ridiculously deduce from hence that all with us resolved it self into the Judgment of a Private Spirit pag. 3. and must be I suppose you mean the Private Spirit must be tho' your words are far from bearing it the chief or rather onely support of your Protestant Faith c. Since it is so palpably false as I have just now shewn nothing as to matters of Faith Discipline or Church Communion among us being either left to or guided by or depending upon any Man how great or how learned soever his private Spirit and so ridiculous that I could not forgive it any Man that had not abstracted himself from his reason but to doe you right you have almost a mind to come off it with your Methought and I am content without being angry that it should pass for your thought the abstracted-no-Religion Man's You go on to shew that you could not persuade your self that Scripture alone could be the Judge of Controversies pag. 3. and resolve your doubts when the Private Spirit was made the Judge of Scripture c. Let the private Spirit be excluded will you admit it then will you allow the Representative Church of England to interpret in new Emergencies which fell not within the care of Antiquity and the Four General Councils If you admit this there need be no dispute since long before your doubts the Church of England hath by publick Authority interpreted the Scripture in all matters of Faith and Discipline and tied up all her Members hath in all the points of Controversie betwixt us and Rome determined that the sense of the Scripture is directly against them and for us If you will not admit it I should be glad to see one reason against it that would not as fully fly in the face of the Church of Rome As to the Mischief upon this Principle of the Private Spirit pag. 3 4. the Wars and Murders c. You ought to have remembred that that Principle was not set up by but against the Church of England and that it was not the Church but the direct and sworn Enemies thereof that committed all those outrages you cannot be ignorant that it was She only that suffered during that Rebellion and Schism and therefore it is most unjust in you to insinuate as if She was cause of all that distraction whereas nothing is more apparent than the contrary to it And as to your Tanrum Religio c. I challenge you to shew any one Principle of the Church of England that encourages or does but glance towards Rebellion Sedition or disturbance of either Church or State This I 'll promise you for every one I 'll shew you Ten of your new Church I 'll shew you Councils for it your own most famous of all the European Councils the Fourth of Lateran leading the Van. Your Popes deposing Princes pag. 84. giving away their Kingdoms as they have done ours more than once setting up in Rebellion Son against Father I 'll shew you the Rebellious Holy League in France one King most barbarously Murdered by it a Pope Sixtus Quintus in a set Speech commending the Paricide the Sorbone it self making Rebellious Decrees against the Two Harries of France both Massacred by their Catholick as they call themselves Subjects but enough of this wherein you know or at least should that we have infinitely the advantage of your new Church as to Principles of Loyalty The result it seems of your Inquiry and search among us was that you could not comply with common reason if you did not disclaim the Judgment of your own or any Man 's private Spirit c. pag. 4. I have upon this but one Question to ask you and that is how you came to be a Roman Catholick if you disclaimed your own reason or private Spirit pray who chose your guide or Church for you if you disclaimed every ones else pray tell us how any Body else could doe it for you But notwithstanding this your disclaiming we find you busie enough up and down the Book acting as if you never had done any such thing discovering judging complying contemplating searching and Forty such expressions which used to denote the exercise of a Man's private Judgment and Reason CHAP. V. His Method farther exposed and the ridiculous Fruits of it THE Fruit of all your search hitherto hath been onely to find pag. 4. or at least to mistrust the ground you stood upon somewhat unsure c. What ground it was you then stood upon I cannot guess since before this you had abstracted your self from Religion and supposed your self as of no Religion so most certainly of no Church But all this is assuredly but a figure to bring in the Rock the Rock you think you were got upon when once a Romanist If I might have had a word with you before you had mounted your Rock for now I am afraid there is no speaking with you I would onely have been informed by you whether there is but one Rock and whether I must give (a) Orig. Hom. 1. in Matth. Origen the lie who tells me that all the Apostles were Rocks as well as Peter and what I must say to (b) Prescript c. 32. 36. Edit Franck. 1597. Tertullian and others that tell me other Apostles planted Churches as well as Peter