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A69269 The speech of the Lord Chancellor of England, in the Eschequer Chamber, touching the post-nati Egerton, Thomas, Sir, 1540?-1617. 1609 (1609) STC 7540.5; ESTC S100270 40,281 132

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similibus ad similia iudicium argumentatio recipiuntur 4 Besides these there is an other generall and certaine Rule in the Ciuile Lawe which I reserue to the last parte of that which I meane to speake in this Matter So leauing that vnto a more proper place I will hereupon conclude That if there bee no former Iudgements nor Examples nor Precedents to bee found then Concordia Clericorum Arbitrium Iudicum is to seeke out the true and solide reason and thereupon to ground their Iudgements in all new Cases For it was truely saide by a learned Gentleman of the lower House Deficiente lege recurrendum est ad consuetudinem Deficiente consuetudine recurrendum ad rationem And so from the Iudges we shall haue Responsa prudentum to decide all such new Cases and Questions And according to this Rule all such new doubts and questions haue beene resolued and decided by the graue Iudges in former times But here before I proceede further I am to make a suite which is this That whatsoeuer I haue spoken or shall happen to speake of the Ciuile Lawe or whatsoeuer I shall cite out of any Writer of that Lawe I pray fauour my Masters that professe it I acknowledge that Lawe to be auncient and generall in many parts of the world and I reuerence the professors of it as men of great learning wisedome and iudgement I professe it not I haue learned little of it but in that little I haue found that in the reall and essentiall partes of Iustice the Ciuile and common Lawe doe in many things concurre though they differ much in the forme and manner of proceeding And that which I shall haue occasion to produce of that Lawe will bee to shew how the common Law and Ciuile doe agree in one reason and iudgement in those things which I shall speake of Yet I must take libertie to say That neither in Spaine nor in France those two great Monarchies it is not generally receiued nor allowed as a concluding and binding Law They take there the reason of it onelie as a directiō to their proceeding iudgement But to produce or alleadge it as a concluding or binding Law was no lesse than Capitis poena This I make not of my selfe for besides common practise and experience I haue an honest and substantiall witnesse Master Adam Blacwood a Scottishman a man of singular learning in the Ciuile Lawe who defendeth in like manner the Lawes of Scotland as appeareth in his learned Booke intituled Pro Regibus Apologia written by him against a seditious Dialogue or Libell made by George Buchanan De iure regni apud Scotos where he tells him Aliud Sceptrum aliud Plectrum But it is not amisse to recite his owne words which are thus Philippus cognomento Pulcher cùm Lutetiae supremae iurisdictionis curiam institueret eam Romano iure solutam esse declarauit in eamque sententiam vetus extat eius Curiae decretum ne causarum patroni Romanarum Legum auctoritatem patriae legibus opponant Sed cùm illae bono aequo niti videntur probabilem vtilitatis publicae causam continere nos earum vtimur haud imperio sed ratione cui omnes homines naturae praescripto subijciuntur Quin etsi quid aduersus rationem legum Romanarum perperàm ac temerè iudicatum est id earum multis poenis haud aestimatur sed vel Principis vel superioris magistratus arbitratu Nam cùm in publici muneris partem admittimur conceptis verbis inauguramur solemni sacramento regiarum municipialium legum atque morum obseruationem nulla Romani iuris mentione spondemus Apud Hispanos capitis poenam ijs indictam legimus qui Romanarum legum auctoritatem vel in foro laudarent vel in puluere scholastico profiter entur Sed si quid occurreret patrijs legibus ac moribus indefinitum quod iudicanti religionem adferret vnicum erat eximendo scrupulo regis consulendi remedium Alaricus Tolosae regnans idem Gothis imperauit vt si quis aduersus ipsius leges Ciuile Romanorum ius citaret temerè factum morte lueretur Now to returne to that which I haue touched before I say that when there is no direct Lawe nor precise Example we must Recurrere ad rationē ad responsa prudentum For although Quod non lego non credo may bee a true and certaine rule in Diuinitie yet for interpretation of Lawes it is not alwaies so For wee must distinguish betweene fidem moralem and fidem diuinam or else wee shall consound many things in the ciuile and politike gouernement of Kingdomes and States For the first Precedent which wee haue now had no precedent when it began But as Tacitus saith Quae nunc vetustissima creduntur noua fuerunt quod hodie exemplis tuemur inter exempla futurum est And to those that hould that nothing is to bee done but by former Examples Horace speaketh thus O imitatores seruum pecus And Cicero saith Non exempla maiorum quaerenda sed confilium est eorum à quibus exempla nata sunt explicandum Thus hath Iustice beene duely administred in England and thereby the Kings haue ruled the people haue beene gouerned and the Kingdome hath flourished for many hundred yeeres and then no such busie Questionists moued any quarrell against it Thus haue all doubts growing vpon Magna Charta and Charta de Foresta made in King Henry the thirds time and vpon the Statutes of Westmin 1. Westm. 2. Westm. 3. and many other Statutes made in Ed. 1. time And vpon Praerogatiua Regis and many other Statutes made in Ed. 2. time beene from time to time expounded and so of later times the Statutes of Fines of Vses of Willes and many moe Thus also haue all Doubts and Cases whereof there was no Statute or Positiue Lawe beene alwaies expounded for such are most of the cases which wee haue in our Yeere-Bookes and Bookes of Reports which are in effect nothing but Responsa prudentum as Iustice Crooke did truely say Vpon this reason it is that some lawes as well Statute Lawe as common Law are obsolete and worne out of vse for all humane lawes are but Leges temporis And the wisedome of the Iudges found them to bee vnmeete for the time they liued in although very good and necessarie for the time wherein they were made And therefore it is saide Leges humanae nascuntur vigent moriuntur habent ortum statum occasum By this Rule also and vpon this reason it is that oftentimes auncient Lawes are changed by interpretation of the Iudges as well in Cases criminall as ciuile In criminall cases the Law was Voluntas reputabitur pro facto but it is not so now sauing in treason onely In an appeale of Maime Britton fol. 48. saith Soit le Iudgement que il perde autiel member come il auer tolle
sometimes a more large Extension For hee that is an Alien borne out of the kings Dominions vnder the obedience of another king if hee dwell in England and be protected by the king and his Lawes hee oweth to the king the duetie of Allegeance and so hee is Ligatus Regi and Ligeus Regis and if hee commit treason the Indictment shall bee contra ligeantiae suae debitum as it was in Shirley the French-mans Case yet is hee not the Kings subiect for hee was not borne Ad fidem Regis But this is not that Ligeance which wee must finde For in a true and lawfull subiect there must bee Subiectio fides obedientia and those cannot bee seuered no more than true Faith and Charitie in a true Christian And hee that hath these three à natiuitate is Ligeus Regis and can not bee a Stranger or Alien to the King or in his Kingdomes And that it is so may be proued by the Rule of the other two interpretations of Lawe That is Analogica Practica King Iames hath now the Kingdomes of England Scotland and Ireland and the Isles of Gernsey and Iersey by discent all these bee his Dominions and vnder his subiection and obedience King Henry the second had England and Normandy by discent from his mother Mawd the Empresse and Aniow and Maine by discent from his father Geffery Plantagenet and Ireland by conquest Henry the third had England and Ireland by discent from his Grand-father Henry the second and Aquitany by discent from his Grand-Mother Queene Elenor wife to King Henry the second and daughter to the duke of Aquitany Edward the first had all the same by discent and parte of Scotland by Conquest Edward the second and Edward the third had all the same by discent also and besides Edward the third claimed all France by discent from his mother Queene Isabell and had the most part of it in possession and so had Henry the fift and Henry the sixt also Now if in these kings times subiectes borne in those Countries being then vnder their obedience vvere no Aliens but capable of landes in England And if at this time subiects borne in Irelād or Gernsey and Iersey be no Aliens but capable of lands in England then by an Analogicall interpretation why should not subiectes borne in Scotland be at this time in like degree For in proportion and in likenesse and conueniencie there can bee no difference at all But whether the subiects borne in those Countries in the time of those kings vvere then capable of lands in England as naturall subiects or were deemed Aliens is the Question and therein Interpretatio practica is to bee considered and so the Case is brought to be examined per similia And in Diuinitie Praxis sanctorum est interpres praeceptorum Now then the Question is Whether the kings Subiects of England and Scotland that be Post-nati may be resembled to the Kings subiects of Ireland and the Isles of Gernesey c. as now they bee and to the subiectes of Normandie Aniow and Gascoyne and parte of Scotland in former times when the same were the Dominions and vnder the obedience of the King of England for I speake alwaies and would be vnderstoode of kingdomes and dominions in possession and vnder obedience and not of those whereunto the King hath right but hath no possession or obedience I houlde that in all points materiall concerning this Question they are alike though not in all things for then it were Idem and not Simile and this can not bee better vnderstoode than by examining the Obiections to the contrary which in substance may bee reduced to foure in number First for Ireland it was gotten by Conquest and the Conquerour may impose what Lawes hee will vpon them But it is otherwise of kingdomes comming by discent This is a conceipted difference and lacks the foundation of Reason and hath not the true parts of a difference for those that are borue in Ireland and those that are borne in Scotland are all alike for their birth within the Kings Dominions and are borne vnder the like subiection and obedience to the King and haue the like bond Nay euen the same bond of Allegiance That is they are borne Ad fidem Regis Besides where it is said The Conquerour may impose what Lawes hee will Then consider how it was in the Interim before King Iohn gaue lawes to Ireland Nay which is more I aske whether the Conquerour of Ireland can giue new lawes to England and make Irish men to bee as naturall borne subiectes in England if their birth-right doe not giue it them which before the Conquest they were not for that is properly the Question But if any difference bee the Case of descent is the stronger For as Iustice Yeluerton saide that is by an vndoubted Title made by lawe the other by a doubtfull Title wonne by the Sword But leaue Ireland gotten by Conquest vvhat say you to the great kingdome of France which Edward the third had first in right by lawfull descent and after in possession by triumphant Conquest and vvhich Henry the sixt held after in possession by descent Was euer doubt made Whether the subiects borne there so long as it vvas in subiection and obedience to the King vvere capable of landes in England I vvill now turne the Case and aske an other Question If King Iames our Soueraigne had first beene King of England by lavvfull descent as novv hee is and after Scotland had descended vnto him should not the Subiects of Scotland I speake still of Post-nati haue beene iudged as Naturall subiects in England as those of France were in Edward the thirds time Then he hauing now both kingdomes by lineall true and lavvfull descent it can make no difference touching the capacitie of Subiects vvhich kingdome descended to him first and vvhich second but both are to him alike And it is cleere Post-nati in England are now capable and inheritable in Scotland though some haue made a causelesse and needelesse doubt of it and so on the other side those of Scotland are in England It is said Normandie and Aquitanie were no monarchies or kingdomes but dukedomes or seigniories in France and holden of the Crowne of France and therefore not to bee resembled to Scotland which is an ancient and absolute kingdome This Obiection reacheth not to the reason of our Question For bee they kingdomes bee they Seigniories yet the subiectes borne there were borne out of the kingdome of England and so in that respect Aliens But in that they were borne within the kings dominions and vnder his subiection and obedience they were no Aliens but liege and naturall borne subiectes to the King and so capable and inheritable in England I say besides the Dukes of Normandie and Aquitany were absolute Princes and had soueraigne power in those countries although they did not beare the name of kings as at
therefore I will presume on your patience and assume to my selfe such conuenient time as others haue done And yet I will husband time as well as I can I will not be abashed to strengthen my weake memory with helpe of some scribled papers as others haue done for I accompt it a point of wisedome to followe wise mens Examples Other Exordium Insinuation Protestation or Preface for the Matter it selfe either to prepare attentiue and beneuolent auditors or to stirre offence or mislike against either partie I meane not to vse it is fit for Oratours I neuer professed the Art I had neuer skill in it And it is not Decorum for Iudges that ought to respect the Matter and not the humours of the Hearers The Exordium the Ciuilians vse in their Sentences I like well In Dei nomine Amen Deo primitùs inuocato other Exordium I care not for The Case now depending in Chauncerie which is adiourned hither is thus Robert Caluine sonne and heire apparant of Iames L. Caluine of Colcrosse in the realme of Scotland an Infant of three yeares of age borne in the saied Realme of Scotland maketh title by his Bill to a Messuage and Garden with th'appurtenaunces in the parish of Saint Buttolph without Bishops-gate in the citie of London and complaineth against Iohn Bingley and Richard Griffin for detaining the Euidences concerning the same Messuage and Lands and taking the profits thereof The Defendants pleade that the Plaintife is an Alien and that in the third yeere of his Maiesties raigne of England and in the nine and thirtieth yere of his Maiesties raigne of Scotland hee was borne in the Realme of Scotland within the ligeance of his said Maiestie of his Realme of Scotland and out of the ligeance of our soueraigne Lord the King of his Realme of England And the Defendants say further That at the time of the birth of the Complainant and long before and euer sithence the saied Kingdome of Scotland was and still is ruled and gouerned by the proper Lawes and Statutes of the said Kingdome of Scotland and not by the Lawes and Statutes of this Realme of England And therfore the Defendants demaund iudgement Whether the Complainant ought to bee answered to his said Bill or shall be receiued to prosecute the said suite against the Defendants being for and concerning the title of Inheritance and euidence touching the same Heereupon the Complainant hath demurred in Law This is the speciall Case now depending in the Chancerie in which and touching all like Cases in generall mine opinion is and since the question was first mooued hath beene That these Post-nati are not Aliens to the King nor to his Kingdome of England but by their Birth-right are liege subiects to the King and capable of estates of Inheritance and freehould of Landes in England and may haue and maintaine as wel Reall as Personall actions for the same And that therefore the now Complainant Robert Caluine ought to bee answered This opinion I did first conceiue vpon those rules and reasons in Lawe as well the Common Law of England as the Ciuile law which heereafter in the course of my Speech I will remember And in this opinion I haue beene since confirmed by many great and weighty reasons First in the Statute made in the first yeare of his Maiesties raigne of England authorizing the Treatie betweene the Commissioners for both the Kingdomes it is said as Iustice Warburton noted well That both the famous ancient Realmes of England and Scotland are now vnited in allegeance and loyall subiection in his royall person to his Maiestie and his posteritie for euer Heere wee haue the Iudgement of the Parliament that there is a Vnitie in allegeance to one Royall person And therefore I see not how wee may out of imaginarie conceipts and by subtile distinctions straine our wittes to frame seuerall allegeances to one and the same Royall person contrary to so plaine a declaration made by Parliament Next followeth his Maiesties Proclamation 20. Octobris 1604. by which hee assumed to himselfe the Name and Stile of King of great Britaine In which Proclamation among many other weighty reasons this is added for one We haue receiued from those that be skilful in the Lawes of the Land That immediatly vpon our succession diuerse of our auncient Lawes of this Realme are ipso facto expired as namely that of Escuage and of the naturalization of the Subiects This was not done sodainely nor lightly but vpon graue and serious deliberation and aduise And therefore seemeth to mee to be a matter of great importaunce and not to be lightly regarded The same twentieth of October these Commissioners beganne their Treatie Of the graue and iudicious Course which they held in debating of the Matter then propounded I will forbeare to speake But for this point of Naturalization now in question their resolution in the end was thus That it shall bee propounded to both the Parliaments at the next Sessions that an Act be made containing a declaration as followeth That all the Subiects of both the Realmes borne since the decease of Elizabeth the late Qu. of England of happie memory and all that shal be borne hereafter vnder the obedience of his Maiestie and his royall Progeny are by the common Lawes of both the Realmes and shall be for euer inhabled to obtaine succeede inherite and possesse all Lands Goods and Chattels c. as fully and amply as the Subiects of either Realme respectiuely might haue done or may doe in any sort within the Kingdome where they were borne This after long debating and graue and deliberate consideration was in the end the resolution of the greater part of the Commissioners not one openly gainesaying it And diuerse of the principall Iudges of the Realme were present at all times when the point was debated And herein I note the wise and iudicious forme of that resolution which was not to propound to the Parliament the making of a new Lawe but a declaration of the common Lawes of both the Realmes in this question Now if wee consider who these Commissioners were what Lords of the higher House and what persons of the common House selected of all degrees most eminent for their learning and iudgement as well in Ciuile and Common Law as in knowledge and experience other waies beeing assisted by the graue Iudges of the Realme If this I say be well considered then this Resolution must be accompted and esteemed as a matter of great and weighty importance and much to be regarded in the deciding of this question According to this Act of the Commissioners the Case was propounded in the next Session of Parliament In the higher House the Iudges were required to deliuer their opinions There were then eleauen Iudges present whereof tenne did with one vniforme consent affirme the Lawe to be That the Post-nati were not Aliens but naturall Subiects one onely dissenting After this the
allegeance is due and therefore since shee failed in that she was not to be answered and thereupon she praied licence to departe from her Writte and so she left her suite Now for the reasons which haue beene drawne and strained out of the statute An. 14. Edw. 3. if they bee well examined they serue little for this point which we haue in hand It is to be considered at what time and vpon what occasion that Statute was made King Edw. the third being right heire to the Crowne and Kingdome of Fraunce by descent from his Mother and hauing spent many yeeres for the recouering of the same resolued to take vpon him the Name and Stile of King of France being aduised thereunto by them of Flaunders Hereupon he did take the Stile of King of Fraunce and altered his Seale and his Armes and after a while placed the Armes of France before the ancient Armes of England as they are borne at this day This gaue occasion for the making of this statute for some people Ascun gentes saith the statute seeing this change and considering the large and ample extent and the magnificence of that great Kingdome beganne to doubt that the king would make his Imperiall seate there and conceiued thereby that the kingdome of England being the lesser should bee in subiection of the king and kingdome of France being the greater and to bee gouerned and ruled by a Vice-Roy or Deputy as they saw Ireland was And though in the Kings Stile England was placed before France yet they sawe the Armes of France marshalled before the Armes of England though at the first bearing thereof some say it was not so To cleere this doubt and to take away this feare from the Subiects of England was this Statute made as doth plainely appeare by the wordes of the statute it selfe Now if you will make an apt and proper application of that Case then betweene England and Fraunce to this our Case now betweene Scotland and England it must be thus 1. Edw. 3. then king of England being the lesser had afterwardes the kingdome of France being the greater by descent and tooke the Stile of King of France King Iames king of Scotland beeing the lesser hath afterward the kingdome of England being the greater by descent and taketh the Stile of King of England 2. King Ed. 3. altered his Seale and his Armes and placed the Armes of Fraunce before the Armes of England King Iames hath changed his Seale and his Armes in England and hath placed the Armes of England before the Armes of Scotland 3. It was then doubted that King Edw. 3. would remoue his Court out of England the lesser and keepe his Imperiall seate and state in France the greater King Iames hath indeede remooued his Court out of Scotland the lesser and doth in his royall person with the Queene and Prince and all his Children keepe his Imperiall seate in England the greater 4. In al these the cases agree but yet one difference there is and that is in the Stile For king Ed. 3. in his Stile placed England the lesser being his ancient kingdome before France the greater being newly descended vnto him But King Iames in his Stile placeth England the greater though newly descended vnto him before Scotland the lesser being his ancient kingdome 5. Now this being thus perhappes Scotland might out of this Example haue conceiued the like doubt against England as England did then against France But as there was then no doubt made whether the kings subiects borne in England should be capable of lands in France so out of this statute and vpon this example no doubt can bee inferred whether the kings subiects now borne in Scotland shall be capable of lands in England But all these Obiections and the ground whereupon they are framed viz. Quando duo iura c. haue beene so thorowly and profoundly examined and so learnedly and fully answered and cleered by the Iudges as I make no doubt but all wise and indifferent hearers be well satisfied therein And if there bee any so possessed with a preiudicate opinion against Trueth and Reason that will say in their owne heartes licèt persuaseris non persuadebis so either Serpent-like stop their eares or else wilfully absent themselues because they would not heare the weaknesse and absurdities of their owne conceipts laied open and confuted If there bee any such I say as I trust there bee but few and yet I feare there bee some I would they had learned of Tertullian That Veritas docendo suadet non suadendo docet And I wish that they bee not found among the number of those to whome Saint Paul saieth Si quis ignorat ignoret And Saint Iohn in the Apocalips Qui sordidus est sordescat adhuc And I will exhort with Saint Paul Qui tenet teneat and not wauer or doubt by such weake arguments and obiections But in this new learning there is one part of it so strange and of so daungerous consequent as I may not let it passe viz. That the king is as a king diuided in himselfe and so as two kings of two seuerall kingdomes and that there be seuerall allegeances and seuerall subiections due vnto him respectiuely in regarde of his seuerall kingdomes the one not participating with the other This is a daungerous distinction betweene the King and the Crowne and betweene the King and the kingdome It reacheth too farre I wish euery good subiect to beware of it It was neuer taught but either by traitours as in Spencers Bill in Edward the seconds time which Baron Snig and the Lord chiefe Baron and Lord Coke remembred or by treasonable Papists as Harding in his Confutation of the Apologie maintaineth that Kings haue their authority by the positiue Lawe of Nations and haue no more power than the People hath of whome they take their temporall iurisdiction and so Ficlerus Simanca and others of that crew Or by seditious Sectaries and Puritans as Buchannon De Iure Regni apud Scotos Penry Knox and such like For by these and those that are their followers and of their Faction there is in their Pamphlets too much such traiterous seede sowne But leauing this I will adde a little more to prooue that in reason Robert Caluine and other like Post-nati in Scotland ought by Lawe to be capable of landes in England and for that I wil remember one rule more which is certen and faileth not and ought to bee obserued in all Interpretation of Lawes and that is Ne quid absurdum ne quid illusorium admittatur But vpon this subtle and dangerous Distinction of Faith and Allegeance due to the King and of Faith and Allegeance due to the Crowne and to the Kingdome which is the onely Basis and fundamentall maine reason to disable the Plaintife and all Post-nati there follow too many grosse and fowle absurdities whereof I will touch some few and so conclude that in Lawe and
England so much as to suffer an imputation to bee cast vpon them That they or the Common lawe doe not attribute as great power and authoritie to their Soueraignes the kinges of England as the Romane lawes did to their Emperours For Bracton the chiefe Iustice in the time of king Henry the third hath these direct wordes De Chartis Regijs factis regum non debent nec possunt Iusticiarij nec priuatae personae disputare Nec etiam si in illa dubitatio oriatur possunt eam interpretari Et in dubijs obscuris vel si aliqua dictio duos contineat intellectus domini Regis erit expectanda interpretatio voluntas Cum eius sit interpretari cuius est condere And Britton in the time of king Ed. 1. writeth as much in effect So as now if this question seem difficult that neither direct law nor Examples Precedents nor application of like cases nor discourse of reason nor the graue opinion of the learned and reuerend Iudges can resolue it here is a true and certen Rule how both by the Ciuile Lawe and the ancient Common lawe of England it may and ought to be decided That is by sentence of the most religious learned and iudicious king that euer this kingdome or Iland had But this Case is so cleare as this needeth not at all And in this I would not be mis-vnderstoode as though I spake of making of new Lawes or of altering the Lawes now standing I meane not so but I speake only of interpretation of the Lawe in new questions and doubts as now in this present case neither doe I meane hereby to derogate any thing from the high court of Parliament farre be it from my thought It is the great Councell of the kingdome wherein euery subiect hath interest And to speake of the constitution or forme of it or how or when it was first begunne is for busie Questionists It ought to bee obeyed and reuerenced but not disputed and it is at this time impertinent to this Question But certen it is it hath beene the wisedome of the Kinges of this Realme to reserue in themselues that supreame power to call their Nobles Clergie commons together when they sawe great and vrgent Causes and by that great Councell to make Edicts and Statutes for the weale of their people and safetie of the Kingdome and State as in Anno 10. Edw. 3. the Assembly at Nottingham for the great wars in France And in Anno 20. H. 3. Prouisiones Merton which I remembred before There haue beene made some Obiections of inconueniencie as for bearing of Scot and Lot and such other charges and some out of frugalitie that the king shall lose his profit of making Denizens and such like These are so light as I leaue them to the winde They are neither fit for Parliament nor Councell nor Court Another argument and reason against the Post-nati hath beene lately made out of diffidence and mistrust that they will come into England sans number and so as it were to surcharge our Common and that this may be in secula seculorum I know not well what this meanes The Nation is ancient noble and famous they haue many honourable and woorthie Noble men and Gentlemen and many wise and worthie men of all degrees and qualities they haue lands and faire possessions in Scotland Is it therefore to bee supposed or can it in reason bee imagined that such multitude sans number will leaue their natiue soile and all transport themselues hither Hath the Irish done so Or those of Wales or of the Isles of Man Gernesey and Iersey Whie should we then suspect it now more for Scotland Nay doe you suppose that the Kinge of England will euer suffer so great a parte of his Dominions and so great and famous a Kingdome as Scotland is to be dispeopled It is a doubt imagined without any foundation or ground of reason But if it were to bee doubted the twelue Iudges that haue concurred in opinion and that late worthy Iudge Popham had as great cause to feare it as any others They are wise they are learned they haue faire possessions and good estates They haue posteritie to care for as others haue Yet admit it bee a matter worth the doubting of what is that to the yoong Post-nati that are not like in many yeares to come hither in such number Shall we vpon this causlesse feare depriue them of their lawfull Birth-right Haue wee seene in these fiue yeeres past anie moe of them than this one alone that haue gotten any Lands in England And this little that he hath is so small and poore a portion that his purchase is not great and therefore no iust cause of offence to any Nay if you looke vpon the Ante-nati you shall find no such confluence hither but some few and very few in respect of that great and populous kingdome that haue done long and worthie seruice to his Maiestie haue and still doe attend him which I trust no man mislikes For there can bee none so simple or childish if they haue but common sense as to thinke that his Maiesty should haue come hither alone amongst vs and haue left behinde him in Scotland and as it were caste off all his ould and worthie Seruants And if these Noble and worthie Gentlemen of Scotland I meane the Ante-nati be louingly and brotherly entertained amongst vs with mutuall loue beneuolence that so we may coalescere be vnited together by marriage and otherwise as in some particular cases wee see it already happily begunne no doubt God will blesse this Vnion of both these Nations and make them and the King and great Britaine to be famous through the world and feared redoubted of our enemies and of all that wish vs ill For Vis vnita fortior concordia multos facit vnum But what may follow vpon such arguments of diffidence and suspition which seeme but to hinder Vnion and to breede discord and dissention I will not speake Let euery wise man consider it well For Humana consilia castigantur vbi coelestibus se praeferunt And remember Saint Paules caution Si inuicem mordetis videte ne ab inuicem consumamini And for the resemblance that hath bin made of this Case of Post-nati but indeed for the Vnion of both Kingdomes with the houswifes cutting of her cloth by a threede I will say but this That if shee cut her peece of cloth in length aswell as in breadth all the threeds will bee cutte and the cloth marred And this cutting in this our Case is to cutte all aswell in length as in breadth euen through all the Kinges Dominions and so will rent asunder the whole frame of the Vnion and cut in peeces all the threeds of Allegeance But now I wil aske this question How long shall this suspition and doubt continue Shall there bee a dis-vnion for euer If it bee saied No but