not carnal hir delights are not outward in flesh but inward in grace the prophet good mā had no leasure to thinke on your farms demeans reuenues This promise must be common to the faithfull not priuat to your cloisterers which in earthly things plied the bottle so fast that they suckt their nurces dry No remedy you must needs yeeld vs that christiā princes in respect of their office not of their riches haue receiued an expresse commandemēt from God to shew thēselues nurces to his church Now nurces by nature must prouide food for their infants defend them from dāger ergo kings queenes in the new testamēt are boūd to tēder the church of Christ by their princely power publik lawes to defend the same from infection of heresies inuasion of schisms all other apparent corruptions of faith good maners Who saith S. Aug. being in his right wits wil say to christiā kings take you no care who defēdeth or impugneth in your realms the church of christ your master Let it not pertain to you who lift to be religious or sacrilegious within your kingdōs And left he should seem skāt resolued in this opinion he biddeth opē defiāce to the Donatists in these words Cry thus if you dare let murders be punished let adulteries be punished let other degrees of lust sinne be punished only sacrileges that is cōtēpt of God his truth or his church we wil not haue punished by princes lawes And againe Will the Donatists though they were cōuinced of a sacrilegious schisme say that it belongeth not to the princes power to correct or punish such things Is it because such powers do not stretch to corrupt false religiō But christiā emperors persecute the Pagās doth that displease thē The works of the flesh Paul nūbreth these fornicatiō vncleanes strife dissentiō heresie drunkēnes such other What thinke these mē may the crime of idolatry be iustly reuēged by the magistrate wel if that like them not why cōfesse they that witches be rightly punished by the rigor of princes lawes will not agnise that heretikes schismatikes may bee repressed by the same seeing Paul doth rehearse them togither with other fruites of iniquity Will they reply that earthly powers are not to medle with such matters of religion To what end then beareth he the sword which is called Gods minister seruing to punish malefactors Certainly Princes c. If this learned father can not fray you from reuiuing the frantick error of the Donatists against the Princes power in matters of religion I trust you will somwhat reuerence the precept which our Sauior in his Gospell gaue the magistrate when he had the first sort of ghestes to be brought to the great supper the second to be forced Go sayth he forth into the wayes and hedges Compell thē to come in that mine house may be filled Wee take wayes sayth Austen for heresies hedges for schismes because wayes in this place signifie the diuersenes and hedges the peruersenes of opinions House God hath none but his house of prayer neither table beside the Lords table So that this seruant is expressely charged to Compel them from heresies and schismes to the confession of truth consent of prayer and communion of the Lordes table To performe this Christ hath left no seruant but the minister or the magistrat no meanes saue the word or the sword To compell heretiks and schismatiks neither is it possible for the preacher if he would nor lawful if he could he lacketh both meanes and leaue to constraine them His calling is with patience to teach not with violence to force to feede not to stryke to reproue with tongue not to subdue with hand Only the Prince beareth the sword which can and may compell recusants and therefore Bishops since they be flatly forbidden to Rayne must not meddle with the material sword being the chiefest part strength of an earthly kingdom neither ought any to draw the sword but he that holdeth it in Gods stead to reward and reuenge Ergo these wordes Compell them to come in that mine house may be filled were spoken to Christian Princes and are to them both a warrant and a charge to represse schismes and heresies with their Princely power which they receiued from aboue cheefly to maintaine Gods glorie by causing the bands of vnitie to be preserued in the Church and the rules of fayth obserued To the same purpose S. Austen in many places alleageth this parable The Lord himself sayth he willed the ghests first to be brought then to be forced What meaneth he by this Compell them to come when as he sayd of the first bring them If he ment they should be compelled by terror of miracles then might the first sort of ghests which saw many diuine wonders be rather thought to be forced but if by the power which the Church receaued at Gods hand in due time through the religion faith of kings those that are found in high wayes hedges that is in heresies schismes must be compelled to come let them not mislike that they be forced This cōmaunding by Princely power occasioneth many to be saued which though they be violently brought to the feast of the great householder and compelled to come yet being within they find cause to reioyce that they did enter for both sorts of commers as well violently forced as willingly brought the Lord fortold hath fulfilled Therfore let earthly princes serue Christ in making Lawes for Christ wherby mē may be forced to come to the great holy banquet yea by banishments other losses let their subiects begin to weigh with themselues what why they suffer learne to prefer the Scriptures which they read before the reportes and cauils of mē I thinke it superfluous to staie longer in confirming so manifest a truth He that is of God heareth the words of God he that impugneth them quarreleth not with Princes which yet is no small offence but with him by whom Princes raigne whose wisedom may not easily be neglected nor will resisted If you deny that this is the Princes charge to see the law of God fully executed his Sonne rightly serued his spouse safely nourced his house timely filled his enemies duely punished you must counteruaile that which Moses prescribed Dauid required Esay prophesied Paul witnessed Christ commaunded with some better sounder authority than theirs is If you grant so much we wil aske no more the Princes duety to God once cōfessed the rest shal quickly be concluded Phi. In a sense it is true that you say Theo. It is simply true that I say for in your owne iudgement may the Christian faith be freely permitted publikely receiued in kingdoms common wealthes Phi. No doubt Theo. May godly discipline be likewise planted and preserued amongest men and the disturbers and neglecters of it repressed and ordered
Gods appointment ergo they beare it in all thinges where the sworde must or may be vsed as well spirituall as temporall Phi. No doubt where the sword must or may bee borne they beare it but howe proue you that in spirituall thinges and causes the temporal sword must or may bee vsed Theo. Pitch that for the question and trie how wel you shall speede with it Phi. Wee neuer denyed but in some sort the temporall sword might bee vsed for spirituall thinges and causes as namely to defend the fayth and Canons of the Church and to put them in execution This Princes may do and must doe with their royall power but they may not commaund what they list in ecclesiasticall causes as you would haue them Theo. You snarle stil when you see your selfe brought to the wall What we woulde haue Princes to doe shall soone appeare if you cease from slaundering and keepe to the matter Our tongues ake with telling you that we hold no such opinion and yet you neuer leaue grating at vs as if we did The point that nowe wee stande at is this whether in a Christian common wealth the temporall sworde as you call it that is the publike authoritie of the Magistrate must bee vsed to receiue establish and defende the true faith of Christ and wholesome discipline of his Church and to prohibite displace and punish the contrarie say nay if you dare Phi. Wee neuer ment it Theo. Then in all spirituall thinges and causes Princes onely beare the sword that is haue publike authoritie to receiue establish and defende all poyntes and partes of Christian Doctrine and Discipline within their Realmes and without their helpe though the fayth and Canons of Christes Church may bee pryuately professed and obserued of such as bee willing yet can they not bee generally planted and setled in any kingdome nor vrged by publike Lawes externall punishments on such as refuse but by their consents that beare the sword This is it that wee say refell it if you can Phi. This is not your opinion but ours Wee confesse Princes to bee defenders of the faith and assisters of the Church with their secular might and power you auouche them to bee supreme moderatours and directours of all spirituall thinges and causes without restraint Theo. Wee auouche you to bee Supreme lyars and that which is worse you thinke with facing in time to get some credite to your fabling You finde no such thing in our words nor deedes as you report of vs. We confesse Princes to bee supreme gouernours that is as wee haue often told you supreme bearers of the sworde which was first ordained from aboue to defend and preserue as well goodlines and honestie as peace and tranquillitie amongest men We giue Princes no power to deuise or inuent new religions to alter or change Sacraments to decide or debate doubtes of faith to disturbe or infringe the canons of the church The publike power and outward meanes which God hath vnited and annexed to their swords as namely to commaund by their Edicts and dispose the goods and bodies of such as resist them this power and meanes wee say must be conuerted and vsed first to the seruice and glorie of God next to the profit and welfare of their Realmes that is as much or rather more for thinges spirituall than temporall Phi. If you giue Princes no iudicial nor spiritual power in matters of religiō but an externall and temporall power to permit and establish that which God commaundeth howe can they bee supreme Theo. Supreme they be for that by Gods Lawe they bee not vnder the Popes checke and correction though to leade on the simple sort with a better shewe you conceale that superiority which the Pope chalengeth ouer Princes and enter your whole action for the Church which woord you knew was more gratious and will in no case bee brought to take our meaning right lest you shoulde bee driuen either to proue your assertion which you can not or to confesse ours which you will not And therefore you wrest the word supreme against the very grounds of our common fayth and rules of your priuate speach to make it seeme false and absurde and then as valiant Captaines you wrestle with the fansies which your selues haue deuised fighting thus with your own shadowes you thinke your Seminaries the only lights and lanternes of Christendome but you must go more syncerely to worke before you can winne the cause Phi. Supreme is superiour to all and subiect to none Theo. And so bee Princes superiour to all men within their Realmes and subiect to no man without their Realmes Phi. What superiour to Christ the Church and all Theo. Haue you neuer done with that idle and eluish obiection Wee compare not man with God nor bodies on earth with spirites in heauen but wee conferre mortall men with their like bearing flesh about them which the sworde may touch and in comparison of them wee say Princes are superiour to all men within their dominions Bishoppes and others and subiect to no man without their dominions Prelate nor Pope to bee commaunded corrected and deposed by their tribunals This is the supremacie which wee attribute to Princes that all men within their Territories shoulde obey their Lawes or abide their pleasures and that no man on earth hath authoritie to take their swordes from them by iudiciall sentence or martiall violence Leaue wrangling and rouing and speake directly to this question Phi. I will if you first graunt that your meaning is not so large as your woordes bee Theo. You would fayne seeme with your eloquent nifles to woorke some masteries but it will not bee Our woordes are no larger than our meaning and both be true Phi. Why supreme is superiour to al none excepted no not Christ himselfe The. And what are these phrases the most holy the most mightie the most blessed which you applie to the Pope do they except Christ or no Phi. If nothing else be added they doe not by rigor of comparison but common vse of speach vnderstandeth them of earthly men and alwayes excepteth first God with whom there can bee none compared and next his Saints which be farre from vs in an other and better life Theo. I crie you mercie You may salute your Romish Pharaoh when you will with the most mightie Priest the most blessed father the chiefe Pastor and many such loftie stiles and wee must come after with salt and spoones and conceaue that Christ is excepted though he bee not because your flatteries bee common and if wee to signifie that Princes by Gods lawe bee not vnder the Popes yoke defende them to bee superiour to all men at home and subiect to no mans Courts or Consistories abroade and therfore call them supreme Gouernours of their owne people and Countries you sounde alarme against vs as if wee went about to defeate Christ of his kingdome and disseism
life Theo. The necessities of this life are nourishment and rayment the rest are superflâ—ities When wee haue foode and apparel sayth the Apostle let vs bee therewith content whatsoeuer is aboue is needlesse and noysome Our Sauiour willing his not to bee carefull for their life expresseth all thinges that bee needefull for this present life Take no thought saying what shall wee eate what shall wee drinke or wherewith shall wee bee clothed Your heauenly Father knoweth that you haue neede of these thinges These thinges wee neede and therefore are they promised other thinges are not promised and therefore we neede them not If Princes were first ordained of God for those thinges onely which are needefull to maintaine this temporall life for thinges superfluous are besides the promise and without the protection of GOD the power and charge of Princes shoulde consist in meates drinkes and apparell and Princes haue no farther care of their people than they haue of their houndes and Horses to see them well fedde and smoothe kept which is a very wicked and brutish opinion Phi. They are besides to maintaine peace and quietnes among their subiects Theo. You might haue ioyned godlines and honestie therewithall as S. Paul doeth and then had you done well I exhort sayth hee that prayers and supplications be made for Kings for all that are in authoritie that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godlinesse and honestie Prayers must bee made for kinges that they may discharge their duties according to Gods ordinance which is that their subiects by their helpe and meanes may leade an honest godly and quiet life godlinesse and honestie being the chiefest endes of our praiers and effectes of their powers For God hath not put the goodes landes bodies and liues of men into Princes handes to cloath their backes and fill their bellies but with praise to prouoke those that be willing to driue those that be not willing with punishments to imbrace pietie towards God sobrietie towardes themselues and charitie towardes their neighbours This you may learne by the regiment of euery priuate familie which is both a part and a paterne of the common-wealth Al parents and masters haue a farther charge ouer their children and seruantes than to see them defended froÌ„ hunger and colde A wicked father is hee that feedeth and cloatheth and nourâ—ereth not his children Ye fathers saith S. Paul bring vp your children in the instruction and information of the Lord. Come children saith Dauid harken vnto me I will teach you the feare of the Lord. Moses admonishing the whole people of the Iewes as it were speaking to euery particular maÌ„ Take heed saith he to thy selfe that thou forget not the thinges which thine eyes haue seene and that they depart not out of thine heart all the dayes of thy life but teach them thy sonnes and thy sonnes sonnes and so God himselfe said to Moses Gather mee the people togither and I will cause them to heare my words that they may learne to feare me all the dayes that they shall liue vpon the earth and that they may teach their children This diligence God coÌ„mended and rewarded in Abraham as the best part of a fathers duetie I know him saith God that hee will commaund his sonnes and his houshold after him that they keepe the waie of the Lord to do righteousnes and iudgement that the Lord may bring vpon Abraham that good which he hath spoken vnto him If priuate men be bound to traine vp their families in the feare of God and loue of vertue much more are Princes the publike fathers of their countries and exalted to farre greater and higher authoritie by Gods ordinance than fathers or masters I say much more are they in coÌ„science charged by calling licenced to frame their subiectes to the true seruice of God right obedience of his law which be thinges not temporal but spiritual This king Dauid protesteth and promiseth vnto God he will doe in his kingdom Him that priuilie slaundereth his neighbour will I destroy Mine eyes shall be to the faithfull of the Land that they may dwell with mee hee that walketh in a perfect way he shal serue me There shall no deceitful or proude person dwell within mine house hee that telleth lies shall not remaine in my sight Betimes will I destroy all the wicked of the Land that I may cut off al the workers of iniquitie from the citie of the Lord. This christian Princes as you heard before made not onely a part but the chiefest part of their duetie The true religion of God and honest conuersation euen of Priests themselues is our chiefest care saith Iustinian And so Valentinian Theodosius The search of true religion we finde to be the chiefest care of the Imperiall Maiestie With whom S. Austen agreeth defending Felix a catholike Bishop against the Donatists for that he was cleared at a temporall bar by the Princes commandement of such crimes as were obiected to him notwithstanding they were ecclesiasticall One of you saith a Bishop ought not to be cleared at the Proconsuls bar as though he sought it not rather the Emperour commanded that kinde of trial to be had to whose charge that matter did most pertaine and whereof the Prince was to render an account to God Of this mind were the Bishops of Rome themselues in former ages Eleutherius not long after Christ wrote to Lucius king of this realm amongst other things in this wise You are Gods Vicar in that kingdom The natioÌ„s people of Britanny are yours whom you ought to gather bring vnto concord peace vnto the faith law of Christ vnto his holy Church to nourish maintaine protect rule alwaies to defende from iniuries mischiefs froÌ„ enemies A king you shal be whiles you rule wel which except you do you shal be vnworthy the name of a king loose it which God forbid So Pope Iohn made answere to Pipin Charles Illos decet vocari Reges qui vigilaÌ„ter defendunt regunt ecclesiam Dei populum eius imitati Regem Psalmographum dicentem non habitabit in medio domus meae qui facit superbiam c. We must cal those kings which doe carefully defend rule the church of God his people after the example of king Dauid in his Psalmes a proude man shall not dwel in mine house This Gregory the great earnestly exhorted Edelberth vnto the first that was christened of the Saxon kings in this Land For this cause the almightie God bringeth good Princes to the regiment of his people that by them hee may bestow the gifts of his mercy vpon al that are vnder theÌ„ Therfore glorious son the grace which you haue obtained at Gods hands keepe with a careful minde hasten to extend the faith of Christ in the nations vnder you Increase the zeale of your vprightnes to
their conuersion subuert the worship of idols ouerthrow their tēples edifie the maners of your subiects by exhorting threatning faire intreating correcting shewing examples of wel doing that you may find him a rewarder in heauen whose name knowlege you haue dilated in earth For so Constantine a most religious Emperor reuoking the Romane Empire from the peruerse seruice of idols subdued the same with himself to the almighty God our Lord Iesus Christ turned him self together with the people vnder him to God with al his heart And nowe let your excellency labor to poure the knowledge of one God the father the son the holy Ghost into the Princes people that are subiect to you that he may make you partaker of his kingdom whose faith you cause to be receiued and obserued in your kingdom This the kings of England before since the cōquest were taught to be their duty sworn to execute faithfully as the lawes of king Edward the good make proofe which William the Conquerer receiued confirmed where the office charge of a king are thus expressed A king because he is the Lieutenant of the most high king was appointed to this end that he should regard gouerne the earthly kingdom and the people of God and aboue all thinges his holie Church and defend her from wronges and roote out male factors from her yea scatter and destroy them Which except he do he can not iustly be called a king A king ought to feare God and aboue all thinges to loue him and to establish his commaundementes throughout his kingdom He ought also to keepe nourish maintaine and gouerne the holie Church of his kingdome with all integritie and libertie according to the constitutions of his fathers and predecessours and to defende it against enemies so as God may be honoured aboue all and euer had in minde He ought to establish good lawes and approued customes and abolish euill lawes and customes and remoue them all out of his Realme Hee ought to doe right iudgement in his kingdom and execute iustice by the counsell of his Nobles All these thinges ought the king to sweare in his owne person before he be crowned The verie Heathen perceiued confessed this to be true Aristotle a prophane Philosopher writing of the first institution of kings sheweth how many things they were by office to medle with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 A king in olde time was the leader in warres pronouncer in iudgements and ouerseer of religion And againe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Diuine things were committed to Princes as part of their charge Al Monarchies kingdomes and common-wealthes Assyrians Persians Medes Graecians Romanes Iewes Gentiles Pagans Christians haue euer kept this for a generall rule that religion shoulde bee setled and establissed by publike lawes and maintained by the Magistrates sword So that if you take the defence of pietie the reward of honestie and balance of equitie from the Princes charge you run headlong against God and man to feede your owne appetites and see not that which reason and nature taught the heathen to confesse that as euery priuate man is bound to seeke and serue God aboue all thinges so euerie societie of men be it familie citie or countrie is likewise bound to haue a speciall and principall care of his seruice which can not be done vnlesse it be planted preserued by publike lawes of these lawes as of all other amongst men onely Magistrates be the makers keepers and reuengers Phi. Princes be charged after a sort with godlines and honestie Theo Your delaies do not answere our proofes We shew the chiefest part of their charge to be godlines and honestie which be thinges spiritual not temporall Phi. What if that be granted Theo. If their duty stretch so far their authoritie must stretch as far Their charge ceaseth where their power endeth God neuer requireth princes to do that which he permitteth thē not to do but rather his commanding them to care for those thinges is a full authorizing of them to medle with those thinges If then godlines and honestie bee the chiefest part of their charge ergo they be likewise the chiefest end of their power and consequently Princes beare the sword chiefly for spiritual thinges and causes not as you defend onely for temporall Phi. You put all thinges temporall spirituall and ecclesiasticall into their handes Theo. In all these thinges and other things whatsoeuer we say they beare the sword and why should that displease you God hath giuen them the sworde euen in those thinges which himselfe commaundeth and prescribeth as namely faith and good manners which be the chiefe contentes of his lawe and respectes of our life and do you think it much that they beare the sword in those indifferent matters which Bishops haue agreed on for seemelinesse and good order to be kept in the church no way comparable to those thinges which God hath put them in trust with and made them defenders and auengers of And if Princes shall not beare the sworde in thinges and causes ecclesiasticall you must tell vs who shall The Priest or the Prince of force must do it and since by Gods law the Priest may not medle with the sword the consequēt is ineuitable that Princes alone are Gods ministers bearing the sword to reward and reuenge good and euill in all thinges and causes bee they temporal spirituall or ecclesiasticall vnlesse you thinke that disorders and abuses ecclesiasticall should be freely permitted and neither preuented nor punished by publike authoritie which in these froward ages would breede a plain contempt of all ecclesiasticall order and discipline and hasten the subuersion of those kingdomes and common-wealthes where such confusion is suffered Phi. The Rites and Ceremonies of the Church are not in the Princes power Theo. To deuise new Rites and Ceremonies for the Church is not the Princes vocation but to receiue and allow such as the Scriptures and Canons commend and such as the Bishops and Pastours of the place shall aduise not infringing the Scriptures or Canons And so for all other ecclesiasticall thinges and causes Princes be neither the deuisers nor directors of them but the confirmers and establishers of that which is good and displacers and reuengers of that which is euill which power we say they haue in all thinges causes be they spirituall ecclesiasticall or temporall Phi. And what for excommunications and absolutions be they in the Princes power also Theo. The abuse of excommunication in the Priest contempt of it in the people Princes may punish excommunicate they may not for so much as the keies are no part of their charge But these particulars if we seuerally discusse we shall neuer end the generall rules on which our assertion is grounded may be sooner proposed and resolued First to whom hath God committed the sword to the Priest or the Prince Phi. To whom say you
as you affirme you may but with reuerence and humilitie serue God before the Prince and that is nothing against our oth Phi. Then is not the Prince supreme Theo. Why so Phi. Your selues are superiour when you will serue whom you list Theo. As though to serue God according to his will were to serue whom we list and not whom Princes and all others ought to serue Phi. But you will be iudges when God is well serued and when not Theo. If you can excuse vs before God when you mislead vs we wil serue him as you shall appoint vs otherwise if euerie man shal answere for himselfe good reason he be master of his owne conscience in that which toucheth him so neere and no man shall excuse him for Phi. This is to make euery priuate man supreme iudge of religion Theo. The poorest wretch that is may be supreme Gouernour of his owne hart Princes rule the publike and external actions of their Countries but not the consciences of men and therefure this thwartling is to no purpose Phi. By what authoritie then in the first Parliament of the Queenes highnesse raigne was the determination decision and definition of truethes or of heresies and errors of the true worship of God and the false attributed to that Court of the states no lesse or rather more than to the foure first or any other general Councel to which the deciding of such things is there granted with this limitation so far as they can warrant their doings by the expresse wordes of Canonical Scriptures and no farther but to the Parliament absolutely decreeing at the same time that nothing there determined should be counted heresie errour or schisme what order decree sentence constitution or law so euer were to the contrarie the holy Scriptures themselues not excepted Theo. It is no wonder to see you quarel with the court of the Sates that are so busie with the Princes Crowne And therein as in the former your behauiour doth not change For entring with a manifest vntrueth and keeping on a course of emptie and haughtie wordes which is your glorie you tell vs at length with pride enough that our Lawes be strange and vnnatural dealings proceedings dishonourable to her MAIESTIE and the Realme against Gods expresse commaundement lymiting his constant and permanent trueth to mortall mens willes and fancies violent disorders which to all our posteritie must needes breede shame and rebuke vniust and therefore bind not in conscience repugnant to the dignitie and priuiledges of the Church against the oth of the makers and in deed no Lawes at all the makers lacking competent power authoritie and iurisdiction to proceed iudicially and authentically to heare determine and define 〈◊〉 giue sentence in any such things as be meere ecclesiasticall with a number of those bold and stately bragges hauing neither proofe of your part nor reproofe of ours but only pretending certain legalities quiddities solemnities of humane iudgements which in Gods cause be very ridiculous and in matters of faith more than superfluous For God will not haue his trueth depend either on the numbers or qualities of persons and when his word is offered we may not stand staggering till the Pope and his Cardinals please to assemble and there iudicially and authentically heare and determine what they thinke good which I winne they wil neuer against themselues Christ sent not iudges with iudicial processe but a few disciples with the sound of their voices to conuert the world the Prophetes that taught the people of God and reproued both Priests and Princes vsed no legall nor authenticall proceedings but a bare proposing the will of God to such as woulde beleeue The Kings and Princes before Christ that subuerted Idols and refourmed religion in their realmes relyed on their Princely Power and zeale for the doing of that seruice and not on the ceremoniall and sententiall acts and decrees of Priests or Prophets The Christian Princes take which you will that first receiued and after restored the faith in their Empires and kingdomes tied not them selues to the voices and suffrages of the Clergie that were in present possession of their Churches but often times remoued them without Councel or common consultation You may do well to correct S. Paul where he saith faith commeth by hearing and hearing by the word of God and to adde faith commeth by iudiciall cognition and competent iurisdiction of such as haue legall meanes to deliberate and pronounce of God and his trueth Phi. Would you haue such disorder and confusion suffered in the Church that euery man should follow what he list Theo. I would not haue such presumption or wickednesse brought into the Church that Christ or his worde should be subiected to the wils or voices of mortall men for though the whole world pronounce against him or it God wil be true and all men shall be liars Phi. No more would wee Theo. Why then restraine you trueth to the assemblees and sentences of Popes and Prelats as though they must bee gently entreated and fayrely offered by Christ before he might attempt or shoulde expect to recouer his owne Phi. Wee would haue things done orderly Theo. Call you that order where Christ shall stand without doores till your Clergie consent t◠bring him in Phi. God is not the author of confusion but of peace Theo. It is no confusion for one familie yea for one man to serue God though all the families and men of the same realme besides will not Ioshua sayd to the whole people If it seeme euill vnto you to serue the Lorde choose you this day whome you will serue but I and myne house will serue the Lorde Elias was left alone for any that he sawe willing to serue God in Israel and yet that abated not his zeale Micheas alone opposed him-selfe against foure hundreth Prophetes with what iudiciall authoritie can you tell Ieremie assured the Priests and Prophetes of Ierusalem that God would forsake them and that hee did without any legall meanes that wee can read Amos spared neither Ieroboam the King nor Amaziah the Priest and yet he was but a simple heardman and not so much as the sonne of a Prophet Iohn Baptist had no competent iurisdiction ouer the Scribes and Pharisees that sate in Moses chayre and yet hee condemned them for a generation of vipers The Councels where Peter Steuen Paul and other of the Disciples were conuented accused and punished lacked none of your iudiciall formalities and solemnities and yet the Apostles stoutly resisted and vtterly contemned both their deliberatiue and their definitiue sentences In deede your forefathers assaulted our Sauiour him-selfe with that very question as also they did Iohn before him and the Apostles after him When the Lord was teaching in the temple the chiefe Priestes and the elders of the people came vnto him and sayde by what authoritie doest
skirmish and arming your selues with three scriptures and seuen fathers you thinke to vanquish and ouerrunne the Princes power in causes ecclesiasticall but soft Sirs you mistake your weapons their force is not great The nation and kingdome sayth God to Sion that wil not serue thee shal perish The kingdome he sayth not the king but graunt it were directly spoken of kings what seruice that is which God requireth of kings if you doe not knowe S. Austen will tel you In this sayth he Kings serue God if their kingdomes they command that which is good and forbid that which is euill not in temporall affayres onely but in matters of religion also And againe Yee Kings serue Christ in making lawes for Christ. So that the cōmanding their people to reuerence the word and obey the will of God and the making of strait lawes to keepe men in the faith and Church of Christ that is I say the seruice which Princes owe to God and his Sion and which you deny lawful for them to medle with By the two next places of S. Paul you prone that Pastors Bishops be rulers of the Church That worde Rulers you catch hold of as if the wordes in S. Paul did not also signifie feeders and leaders which be the two signes and dueties of good shepheards and yet we neuer denied but the messengers and disposers of Gods mysteries by preaching the woord administring the sacraments and well vsing the keyes haue their internall and spirituall regiment ouer the soules and consciences as wel of Princes as others which is the true meaning of the place that you bring out of Nazianzene Athanasius Osius Leontius Hilarie and Ambrose sharply reproue Constantius Valentinian for taking vpon them to chaunge the faith abolish the godhead of Christ plainely told those Princes they were no iudges of faith nor arbiters of doctrine which was true which false neither might they so much as interpose their iudgement or authoritie whiles such cases were debated That very lesson haue wee from the beginning taught with our lippes sealed with our blood more stedfastly than you We neuer gaue prince nor Pope right to controle the trueth or reuerse the worde which God hath established in his Church and the constant auouching thereof against earthly States powers hath cost vs as you can not choose but knowe many thousande mens liues Yet this is no let but Princes as well as other priuate persons may trie spirits and beware false Prophets And this I trust you dare not impugne that Princes may doe that for Christ which you defend they must do for Antichrist graunt vs that we require no more Chrysostome is the last of the seuen Christ sayth he when he willed Peter to feede his sheepe cōmitted the charge of them to Peter Peters successors Meaning by Peters successors not onely the bishops of Rome but him selfe and all other Bishops as appeareth by his owne words in the same place This was Christes purpose at that time when he sayd feede my sheepe to teach Peter and the rest of vs howe well he loued his Church that therefore we also should take the charge and care of the same Church with al our hearts Ambrose extendeth the wordes of Christ in like manner to al Bishops preachers It was thrise repeated by the Lord feed my sheepe Which sheepe which flocke not onely Peter receiued then in charge but he with vs and wee all with him receiued them in cure And so doth Austen When it is said to Peter it is said to all Louest thou me Feede my sheepe That women may not vndertake this charge to feede Christs sheepe it was needelesse to cite Chrysostome S. Paul sayde it before in other wordes and wee bee farre from any such follie These bee the maine and mightie proofes wherewith you thought to shake the Princes seate which conclude vtterly nothing against that we defende nor against that her Maiestie claymeth or vseth The rest of your authorities which be sixe touch not vs at all nor any thing in question betwixt you and vs saue the last where S. Hierom writeth to Damasus He that gathereth not with thee scattereth Which words we graunt were very true when S. Hierom spake them for that Damasus rightly professed the Christian fayth which the Bishop of Rome now doeth not and by gathering with him is ment no subiection to him but a felowship with him in teaching the same trueth and keeping the bande of peace which is common to all Christians Your fift chapter which should cleere you from false doctrine and proue you to be good Catholiques hath in all but one Section of twentie sixe lines to that purpose the rest is a desperate discourse of your owne full of your bolde assertions vayne presumptions without scripture or father that helpeth you or hindereth vs. For prayer for the dead you alledge S. Augustine for honouring of Kelikes and Pilgrimage S Hierom for vocation of Saints worshipping the crosse and memories of Martyrs S. Cyril for the sacrifice of the Masse Saint Chrysostome for the corporall presence of Christ in the Sacrament the Lateran Councell for Images the second Councel of Nice Gregorie to Serenus and Damascene for the power of Priesthood to remit sinnes S. Ambrose A weake foundation to beare so great a frame Cyril Chrysostome and Ambrose in the places which you quote teache nothing lesse than those errors and abuses which you mayntaine The seconde Councell of Nice was very neere 800 the Lateran Councell aboue a thousand yeres after Christ both too yong to make any doctrine Catholique Gregorie liketh that stories should be painted in the Church but adoration of thē he detesteth which yet that wicked Councell of Nice did after establish Damascene you may take backe againe his credite is so smale that we neede not answere him S. Hierom is hoat against Vigilantius and so hoat that Erasmus is faine to say Conuiciis debacchatur Hieronimus Hierom rayleth without measure Yet the most honour that he gaue to the bodies or ashes of Martyrs by whom God after their deaths wrought great miracles was to be fairely wrapt and honestly kept in their Chappels The tending of tapers and setting vp of waxe candles before them he denieth to be vsed in the Church in other places if any such thing were he imputeth it to the vnskilfulnesse and simplicitie of some Lay men and deuout women that had zeale but not according to knowledge What is this for your defence You make newe Relikes you set foorth vnshamefast Legends and deuise false miracles to deceiue the people you giue them Pardons for manie thowsande thowsande yeeres you promise them helpe in all their needes and effect in all their desires you make a very marte of the graces and gyftes of God to cause men to runne from place to place from Saint to Saint
against it so long and coulde not preuaile Theo. First heare how well they did like it and then how long they did impugne it The Pragmaticall constitution made by the authoritie of the Councell of Basill the Bishops of Rome that came after detested as a pernicious heresie and not one of them the Synod of Basill once dissolued did euer allow the same Which well appeareth by the message that Pius the 2. sent to Lewes the 11. for the repealing of this constitution as the king himselfe reporteth writing backe to the Pope in these wordes We haue consented to those thinges which were aduertised vs in your name by your Legate a latere to wit that the Pragmaticall sanction grieued and iniured both you your See as being made in the time of sedition schisme subuerting all right all law by taking what authoritie they list frō you And this besides which the same Legate in the name of your holines affirmed that whereas by this Pragmaticall constitution the authoritie of your supreme Seat in the Church is restrained a castle of libertie prouided for the Prelats of our Realme vnitie conformitie towards your Seat as other kingdoms obserue is refused the foresaide law is to be remoued abolished out of our Realme as made by inferiour Prelats against your See the mother of all Churches By these perswasions and with vrging a former promise Pope Pius the 2. a great fauourer and expresse defender of the Councell of Basill before his promotion though after blinded with ambition of all others he most detested the pragmaticall sanction called it heresie wan the kinges good will and had his letters to the Senate of Paris for the repealing of this law but neither the kings Atturny nor y◠Bishops would cōsent therto Yea the Schole of Paris feared not to resist the Popes proctor appealing to the next general Coūcell This wisedom and freedom the Clergie men of Fraunce and students of Paris shewed and vsed in maintaining the Pragmaticall sanction against diuerse Popes from the yeare of our Lord 1438. till the yeare 1516. which Leo the 10. that in our dayes wrested it out of their handes is forced to confesse We weigh with our selues howe many treaties haue past betweene Pius the 2. Sixtus the 4. Innocentius the 8. Alexander the 6. and Iulius the 2. Bishops of Rome our predecessors and the most christian kinges of Fraunce for abolishing a certaine constitution called the Pragmaticall bearing great sway in that kingdom and though Pius the 2. by his Legats sent to Lodouike the 11. perswaded him with so many reasons that the king himselfe by his letters Patents did abrogate the said Pragmatical sanction as autorized in the time of seditiō diuisiō yet neither the said abrogatiō nor the Apostolike letters of Sextus the 4. made vpon concordates with the Ambassadours of the said Lodouike were receiued by the Prelates and Ecclesiasticall persons of Fraunce neither would the saide Prelates and Clergie obey them or giue eare to the admonitions of Innocentius and Iulius aforenamed but woulde needes sticke and cleaue still to the said Pragmaticall sanction And when vpon agreement with Frauncis the French king Leo the 10. in a Councel at Rome did abrogate the said constitution pronoūced it vtterly void the whole Uniuersitie of Paris in the yeare 1517. appealed from the Pope and his assembly to a generall free Councell Their wordes be worth the hearing Because he which is Gods Vicar in earth whō we cal the Pope though he haue autority immediatly frō God yet is not therby free frō sin neither hath receiued licence to sin so that we must not obey him if he decree any thing against the diuine precepts but rather may lawfully resist him c. And wher as the coūcel of Basil made many good holsom decrees for the increase of Gods seruice health peace of others which Charles the 7. a most religious aduācer excellent preseruer of the worship of God Ecclesiasticall honor in that famous coūcel of the church of France held at Burdeux caused to be recited cōmanded to be kept inuiolable as euer since they haue bin kept obserued c. But now the Romanes eger on their own lusts gains perceiuing by this meanes siluer gold not to come out of the kingdō delphin of Frāce as before it did as they wish it should spiting these laws haue oftē practised to haue them abrogated by the Bishop of Rome which hitherto by Gods helpe hath bin withstood vntill Leo the 10. came who fauouring the Romanes more than he should in a certaine meeting at Rome which is we know not how but surely not in the holy ghost gathred against vs hath decreed we know not vpon what reason the said holsom statutes to be abolished opposing him self against the catholike faith authority of sacred generall councels hath condemned the holy councell of Basill c. Therefore in these writings we appeale from our Lord the Pope not well aduised frō his infringing the sacred coūcel of Basill the Pragmaticall sanctiō to the next councel that shal be lawfully freely called So far your own fellowes in this very age wherin we liue durst did resist your holy father And least you should think y◠only scholers not Bishops were of this opiniō the prelats of France not past 7. yeares before this appeale in a coūcel at Tours gaue their ful resolution to Lodouike the 12. that it was lawfull for him to forsake the Popes obedience to despise the Popes curses An. 1510. the French king gathered a councel at Tours where he proposed these questions whether it were lawfull for the Pope to wage war with a Prince for no cause whether such a Prince defending his own might inuade the beginner and withdraw himselfe from his obedience The councel answered the Pope might not the Prince might do that which was demāded that also the Pragmatical sanction was to be kept throughout the Realme of France neither need the king to care for the Popes vniust cēsures if he cast out his thūderbolts This answer of the councel the king sent to Iulius who when Peters keies would not preuaile drew out Pauls sword with the shedding of much christian blood sought an vnchristian reuēge The French mē saith Erasmus which with their blood gate Iulius so many notable triūphs by his means with the spilling of a great deal more blood were thrust out of Italy as though that were too litle followed with all kind of reproches if death had not preuēted Iulius we had seene that most florishing kingdom vtterly ouerthrowen Phi. They gat nothing you see by withstanding the Popes keies Theo. Christendom hath gotten lesse by wtstanding the Turke yet that doth not make his cause good but Lodouike the 12. did herein no more than Philip the
faire king of France also did before him put the Pope to the worse Phi. What did he Theo. He not only contemned the Popes Buls curses but clapt his Legat by the heels sequestred himselfe his whole realm from his obedience at length caught the Popes own person kept him in prison til he died Phi. Durst he be so bold with his holines Theo. How bold the king of France was a frier as you bee shal tel you Bonifacius the 8. minding to send an armie to Hierusalem hoping to get Philip of France to furder the matter sent the Bishop of Apamea to the king who when he perceiued he could do no good began to threaten king Philip that he should be depriued of his crown if he did not satisfie the Popes request was therfore by the commādement of the king cast in prison Which done Bonifacius a mā aboue measure arrogāt pretending that Philip had violated the law of natiōs would needs be reuēged sending the Archdeacon of Narbon into Frāce forbiddeth Philip to take any more of the church reuenues wheras before the king that Bonifacius could suffer had one yeares fruit of euery vacāt church which we cal the kings due farther he denoūceth that the crown of Frāce is deuolued to the church of Rome by Philips cōtumacy adding that if Philip refused this he would pronoūce both him those that fauored him heretikes moreouer he appointed the bishops certain Abbats with the diuines Canonists a day to appeare before him at Rome withal declareth the charters grāts bestowed on the Frēch by the bishop of Rome to be void This message done by the Archdeacō with pride enough Philip set the Bishop which was kept in ward for his lewd wordes at libertie and charged him with speede to depart the Realme the next spring the Prince gathered an assembly at Paris rehearsing the iniuries that he had receiued at Bonifacius hands asked first the Bishops of whō they held their lands reuenewes then turning himselfe to the Nobles you my Lords saith he whom do you take for your king ruler both answering without staie that they helde inioyed all those things by his Princely lawes but saith the king Bonifacius so dealeth as if you the whole Realme of Fraunce were subiect to his See For the Empire of the Almanes which he thrise denied Albert hath he now giuen him and also the kingdom of Fraunce But we thanking you for your fidelitie good will trusting to your helpe doe promise to defende the libertie of our Lande The Councell risen the king by open Proclamation forbad all men to carrie gold siluer or any other thing out of his Realme a paine set for the breakers of this Edict besides watch ward was appointed at euery passage port to apprehend those that came in or went out of his Countrie And not long after a second Councell of Bishops and Nobles were assembled at Paris where they discussed Bonifacius claime to the kingdom of Fraunce the Fathers affirming that Bonifacius was vnworthie to be Bishop for that he was an homicide and an heretike whereof they had witnesses present Therefore with one consent they concluded that Bonifacius ought not to be obeyed vnlesse he first cleared himselfe of that he was charged with After this king Philip taking the pride of Bonifacius in very ill part sent some to intimate his appeale against the iniuries of Bonifacius who belike meaning to gratifie the king caught the Pope in his fathers house at Anagnia whēce the proud Prelate was led to Rome cast in prison where within foure twentie daies he ended his life either by violence or else for griefe of hart Thus died Bonifacius like a dogge that went about to strike a terrour into Emperors Kings Princes Countries Commonwealthes rather than any religion which assaied to giue kingdoms take them away to aduance men and pull them downe at his pleasure Wherefore it was truely saide of him he entered like a Foxe craftily liued like a Lion furiously died like a dogge shamefully Phi. This is but one mans iudgement Theo. Yet a man of your owne side and if our English Monkes do not deceiue vs it was the prophesie of Caelestinus his predecessor who sayd to him Thou hast entered like a Foxe thou wilt raigne like a Lion shalt die like a dogge but the truth of the storie is it that I seeke for and that in effect a few circumstances altered is confessed by the best of your writers and this they adde which I would haue you marke that the king not only withdrew his obedience from the Pope but also restrayned his subiectes from sending or going to Rome So Sabellicus Philip offended with Bonifacius by open Edict forbad all French men to go to Rome or to send any mony thither So Platina The king meaning in part to reuēge the wrōgs which the Pope had done him made a law that none of his Realme should go to Rome or send mony thither So Paulus AEmylius The Bishops and prelats of France were commaunded by Bonifacius to appeare at Rome by a certaine day The king suffered no man to depart out of Fraunce which you thinke much her Maiestie should at this present in a far better cause commaund within her dominions Phi. One Swallow maketh no summer Theo. One such Sommer is able to mar the Popes haruest but herein the king of France is not alone the kings of England haue done the like Phi. Which of them Theo. I could easily name them but I need not The ancient Lawes Liberties of this Realm permit no man to go out of this land nor appeale to Rome without the kings consent Phi. Uery ancient I promise you those lawes were first made by king Henrie the 8. about fiftie yeares since Is not that great antiquitie Theo. The lawes that I speake of are 500 yeares old and were in full force vnder William Rufus and Henrie the 1. the Sonnes of William the Conquerer Phi. Did they restraine their subiectes from going to Rome Theo. Whether they did or no iudge you When Anselmus Archbishop of Canterbury asked leaue of William Rufus to go to Rome the king replied that no Archbishop nor Bishop of his realm should be subiect to the Pope or court of Rome especially since hee had all those liberties in his kingdom which the Emperour had in the Empire And for this cause was Anselmus conuented by the king as an offendour against the State And to this accusation did the most of the Bishops except the Bishop of Rochester giue their consentes And for that he ventered ouer the Seas to Rome without leaue All his goods cattels were seased to the kings vse all his actes proceedings in the Church of England reuersed himselfe constrained to liue in banishmēt during the life of king
better and acknowledge your error Phi. When you proue that we may do this which will neuer be Theo. Marke first what we reath and next what we proue that you be not deceaued Wee teach that God in deliuering the sworde to Princes hath giuen them this direct charge to prouide that as well true religion be maintayned in their Realmes as ciuil iustice ministred and hath to this end allowed Princes ful power to forbid preuent and punish in all their subiects be they laymen Clercks or Bishops not only murders thefts adulteries periuries and such like breaches of the seconde table but also schismes heresies Idolatries and all other offences against the first table pertayning onely to the seruice of God and matters of religion Wee doe not imagine this of our owne heades we find it annexed to the crowne by God himself who when he first gaue the children of Israel leaue to choose them a king withall appointed that the Law truely copied out of the Leuites original which was kept in the tabernacle should be deliuered the king sitting on his royal seate with this charge That booke shall remaine with the king he shall reade in it all the dayes of his life that he may learne to feare the Lord his God obserue all the wordes of the law there written and these statutes to do them This was not doone till he was placed in his throne so sayth the text therefore this touched not the kings priuate conuersation as a man but his Princely function as a magistrate which will you nill you stood in cōmaūding others not in guiding his own person For no man is a king in respect of himself but in ruling his subiects As a man he serued God one way sayth Austen as a king an other way As a mā by faythful lyuing as a king in setting forth lawes to cōmaund that which is good and remoue the contrarie So that kings as kings serue God in doing that for his seruice which none but kings can do Then if the whole Law were cōmitted to the king as a king at his coronation that is to cōmaund it others which none but kings could doe within their Realmes ergo the publishing preseruing and executing of the first table touching the sincere worship of God was the chiefest part of the Princes charge To make my cōclusion the stronger let vs see what the godly kings of Israell Iudah did in matters of religiō hauing no farther nor other cōmission frō God than this which I last repeated The diligēt executiō of their office wil serue for an euidēt expositiō what God required at their hānds We cā look for no plainer declaratiō of Gods meaning in this point thā Gods own cōmendatiō of their acts in this case The lawmaker is the best interpreter if they by their princly power remoued idols razed hilalters slue false prophets purged the land frō al abominations not sparing the brasen serpent made by Moses whē they saw it abused if again by the same power they caused the tēple to be clensed the law to be read the couenant to be renued with God the passouer to be kept the Leuits to minister in their courses inuēted by Dauid if to conclude the prince deposed the chiefe bishop placing a fitter in his steed forced al prophets priests people that were found in Israel sincerely to serue the Lord their God if I say they did al this as the scripture beareth record they did their zealous proceedings in these cases were liked accepted praised by Gods own mouth who besides Iesuits is either so blind that he seeth not or so froward that he confesseth not that princes were charged by God himselfe to plant establish his true seruice in their dominions with their Princely power to prohibite punish all offences abuses be they temporal or spiritual against the second or first part of this heauenly law Phi. This charge concerned none but the kings of Israell Iudah The. That refuge doth rather manifest your folly thā satisfie my reason did I pray you Sir the cōming of Christ abolish the vocatiō of princes I tro not Thē their office remaining as before per cōsequent both the same precept of God to them stil dureth also the like power to force their subiects to serue God Christ his son standeth in as ful strēgth vnder the gospel as euer it did vnder the law For princes in the new testamēt be Gods ministers to reuēge malefactors as they were in the old the greater the wickednes y◠rather to be punished ergo the greatest as heresies idolatries blasphemies are sonest of al other vices to be repressed by christiā magistrates whose zeal for Christs glory must not decrease Christs care for their scepters being increased and those monuments of former kinges left written for their instructiō Were not this sufficient as in truth it is to refute your euasion yet king Dauid forseeing in spirit the heathē kings would bād thēselues assemble togither against the Lord his Christ extēdeth the same charge to the gētiles which the kings of Iurie receiued before warneth thē al at once Be wife ye kings vnderstād ye iudges of the world serue the Lord. Upon which words S. Aug. inferreth thus Al men ought to serue God in one sort by cōmon cōdition as mē in an other sort by seueral gifts offices by the which som do this some that No priuat person could cōmand idols to be banished clean frō among men which was so long before prophesied Therfore kings besides their duty to serue God common with al other men haue in that they be kings how to serue the Lord in such sort as none can do which are not kings For in this kings in respect they be kings serue the Lord as God by Dauid enioyneth them if in their kingdoms they cōmand that which is good prohibite that which is il not in ciuile affaires only but in matters also concerning diuine religion With this indeuor of christian princes God cōforteth his church by the mouth of Esay Thou shalt suck the brests of princes kings shal be thy foster fathers and Queenes thy nurcing mothers What Esay saith princes shal do that I cōclude princes must do because God would not promise they should vsurp an other mās office but discharge their own Thē if you frō Rhemes or your brethrē frō Rome tel vs y◠the nurcing of christs church is no part of the princes duty we detest your insolēt negatiue God is truth who saith it you be liars If you take the milke of princes for tēporal honors lāds goods which your church in deed hath greedily swallowed the very children wil laugh you to skorne The church of Christ is no wāton she lusteth for no worldly wealth which is rather hurtful poison than holsom food Gods prouision for hir is spiritual
to keepe them he that might commaund not he that must obey Lotharius not Leo. Can you looke for stronger proofes or plainer wordes that the Prince was the Popes superiour in causes Ecclesiasticall If the Bishop of Rome were a SERVANT to christian Emperours then was he not their ruler If a SVBIECT vnder them then no superiour ouer them If SVPPLIANT to their persons and OBEDIENT to their lawes then no deposer of Princes nor reseruer of their edicts to bee short if they were correctors and iudges of his demainour and doinges then his claime to punish and depriue them of their kingdomes is vsurped and wicked and so Princes hauing no superiour but onely God are consequently supreme gouernours ouer all their subiectes be they laie-men or Clerkes to commaund that which is good and prohibite that which is euill not in ciuill affaires only but in matters also concerning diuine Religion Phi. I confesse places somewhat moue me neither can I vppon the suddaine answere them yet are there many both authorities and reasons that make with vs for the contrarie Theo. Shew me but one Scripture Father or Councell all this while that proueth the Pope to bee the Princes superiour and I will aske no further answere Phi. God saith to Ieremie I haue appointed thee this day ouer nations kingdomes to pull vppe to beate downe to disperse to ouerthrow to build and plant Theo. Was Ieremie euer Pope Phi. I doe not saie hee was Theo. Then that which God spake to Ieremie concludeth nothing for the Pope Phi. If a meane Prophet had that power to plant and remoue kingdomes how much more he that is head of the vniuersal church and iudge ouer the whole earth Theo. Your antecedent is false and your consequent foolish For Ieremie had no such power as you dreame of hee was appointed a Prophet to denounce the wrath of God against nations and Countries not a Prince to displace Rulers and translate kingdomes It is a grosse peruerting of the Scriptures to wrest them to that sense Next your consequent supposeth that the Pope is head of the vniuersall Church and iudge ouer the whole earth which vaine presumption is no good illation you must bring vs better conclusions before they wil be currant Phi. The text is plaine I haue appointed thee ouer nations and kingdomes Theo. I haue appointed thee ouer them not a Prince to subdue them but a Prophet to warne them Phi. How proue you that exposition Theo. The text it selfe saith so Prophetam Gentibus dedite I haue made thee a Prophet ouer nations And the verie next wordes before yours are these Ecce posui verba mea in ore tuo ecce constitui te hodie super gentes super regna c. Behold I haue put my wordes in thy mouth behold I haue appointed thee ouer nations and kingdomes that is a Prophet with my wordes in thy mouth not a magistrate with the materiall sworde in thine hand This we likewise proue by the execution of his office For he prophesied the captiuitie of the Iewes the taking of the king and the citie the destruction of the Aegyptians Philistines Moabites Ammonites Idumeans Persians Damascus Babylon and other kingdoms nations but he neuer deposed king nor altered state ergo his coÌ„mission was to foreshew the ruines ouerthrows decaies changes of kingdoms natioÌ„s common-wealthes not to practise them he was the man that foretolde them he was not he meanes to worke them Theodorete saith of these words I haue appointed thee ouer natioÌ„s kingdoms to pul vp beat down disperse ouerthrow build plant for he prophesied not only the Iewes captiuity but their deliuerance by Cyrus He prophesied also to many other nations al kinds of calamities And likewise Bernard Rusticani sudoris quodam schemate labor spiritualis expressus est Disce sarculo non sceptro tibi opus esse vt facias opus Prophetae By a certaine resemblance of the husbandmaÌ„s paines the spirituall labor of the Preacher is expressed Learne that thou must haue an hooke to weed not a scepter to rule if thou wilt do the worke of a Prophet Nicolaus de Lyra 1300. yeares after Christ could hit the right sense of this place I haue appointed thee to roote vp that is to denouÌ„ce the inhabitaÌ„ts shal be remoued out of the laÌ„d to built plaÌ„t that is to denouÌ„ce that the Iewes shal be builded plaÌ„ted again in their own couÌ„try This I take to be the right meaning of the text if that please you not but you will haue the Prophet himselfe to be the workman then Ieremy was sent not to plant and pul vp Priâ—â—es not to build and beate downe kingdomes but as your own gloze saith to roote vp vices to beate downe heresies to build vp vertues Euery plant saith Hierom vpon those words which the heauenly father hath not planted shal be rooted vp the building which hath not his foundation on the rock but in the sand is vndermined ouerthrown by the word of God And Gregory The Prophet is first willed to destroy after to build first to roote vp after to plant because the foundation of truth is neuer wel laid except the frame of error be first subuerted Yea Many saith HieroÌ„ vnderstand this place of the person of Christ which destroied the kingdom of the diuell Take which of these senses you like best so you bestowe not that on Ieremy which is proper to Christ to be king of kings Lord of lords nor allow him the liberty that God reserueth to himselfe to bear rule ouer the kingdom of men to giue it to whome hee will which no Prophet before Christ no Apostle since Christ no mortall creature euer claimed or vsed but onely the whoore of Babilon that raigneth ouer the kinges of the earth Phi. The nations and kings saith God by Esaie that wil not serue thee shall perish Theo. Whose translation is that Phi. The Septuagintes Theo. But the Hebrew is That nation and kingdom which wil not serue thee shall perish And so doth S. Hierom translate Phi. There is no great difference betwixt them Theo. As much as is betweene the Prince and the people Phi. Both Prince and people must serue the church or else they shall perish Theo. Wee reason not what they must doe but what Esaie saith and hee saith the kingdome must serue the king must nurce the church which is a word of more dignitie than seruice is Thou shalt sucke the breastes of kinges And againe Kinges shall bee thy foster fathers and Queenes thy nurcing mothers but I sticke not on this Phi. You neede not for in plaine wordes it is said a little before Reges eorum ministrabunt tibi Their kings shal serue thee Theo. Their kings shall attend thee or minister vnto thee The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth him that is next about a maÌ„
to attend on his person Phi. And they be seruants as well as others Theo. It may be so neither do I denie that Princes must serue but whom Phi. The church so saith S. Hierom The nations kings that will not serue the church shall perish with that destruction which is prepared for the wicked Theo. You should shew that Princes which will not serue the Pope must loose their crownes Phi. Grant that Princes must serue the church for the rest we will do well enough Theo. First grant you that Popes were subiects seruants to christiā Princes 850. yeares after Christ which I haue proued you haue not answered and for seruice to be done by Princes to the church of Christ I will not long dissent Phi. Howe can they serue the church not serue the Pope which is head of the church Theo. To whom were these wordes spoken The kingdome that will not serue thee shall perish Phi. To the church Theo. To the whole church or to some speciall members of the church Phi. To the whole Theo. Then may the poorest member of Christs church euery Parish-priest chalenge to be the master of Princes to be serued at their hands as well as the Pope That which is spoken to all must be common to all Againe your owne answere ouerthroweth your own assertiō for this was spoken you say to the church but the Pope is not the church ergo this was not spoken to the Pope Phi. You go too far It was spoken to the whole but not ment of the whole Theo. Of whom then was it mēt Phi. Of the head which is a part of the whole The members of Christs church are not bound to serue one an other but all to serue the head In respect of their head they be seruants in respect of themselues they be brethren Theo. Is the head a part of the bodie Phi. Though the head can not properly be called a member of the bodie but the head yet in the whole are contained both the head and the members as in an Armie sometimes the Captaine and Souldiers and a kingdom compriseth both the king and his subiects Theo. Then where Esaie saith to Ierusalem kingdoms shall serue thee that is not euery member of thee but the chiefest and noblest part of thee which is the head that all the members serue Phi. And that head is the Pope Theo. When you proue the Pope to bee head of the church then call for Princes to doe him seruice In the meane time let Princes heare what Dauid saith Bee wise yee kinges serue the Lord and what our Sauiour alleadgeth Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and him onelie shalt thou serue At the name of Iesus euerie knee shall bowe of thinges in heauen and of thinges on earth Yea let not onely Princes but all the Angels of God worship him hee is the head to the church which is his bodie Your holy father must staie for his seruice till his headship may be found in some better records than in your bare supposals Phi. You infer this vpon my confession which I may change vppon better aduisement The nation kingdom that wil not serue thee shall perish No doubt these words bind Princes to do seruice to the church if not to the Pope Theo. You bound them before to serue the head and not the bodie now you wil haue them serue the bodie and not the head Well since there is no more hold in your word I will take surer hold of Esaies wordes The text which you bring is allegorical as the whole chap. besides is therefore you may draw no literal conclusion from these words no more than from wals gates brasse yron gold siluer Sunne Moone milk teats camels rammes firre trees pine-trees which also be reckned and promised to Ierusalem in this place Phi. Run you to allegories Theo. You cannot run from them vnlesse you run from this chapter read it ouer and see whether I faine or no. Phi. Shall then the promises of God be frustrate because the speaches bee figuratiue Theo. Did I saie they should No they bee greater and richer than mans tongue can expresse But if you presse the letter they bee false and absurde For example All the sheepe of Kedar shall bee gathered vnto thee the rammes of Nabaioth shall serue thee For brasse will I bring golde and for yron siluer for wood brasse and for stones yron Thou shalt haue no more Sunne to shine by daie neither shall the brightnesse of the Moone shine vnto thee These thinges bee not literally true Phi. I know they be not Theo. The whole chapter goeth after the same sort expressing by temporal and terrestrial things the blessings of God vpō his church which be celestial and eternal Phi. I mislike not this Theo. Euen so the seruice which kinges must do to the church is not corporall nor external such as seruing-men yeeld to their masters or subiectes to their superiours but an inward deuotion and an humble submission to the graces and mercies of God proposed offered in his church In effect kings must become religious faithful members of the church to serue God in holines righteousnes al the daies of their life To beleeue the word that is preached to frequent the sacraments that be ministred to fear the Lord that is honored in al aboue al this is the seruice which the church of Christ hartily wisheth earnestly seeketh at al mens hāds other solemnities with cap and knee shee neither liketh nor looketh for Phi. Kinges in respect of their calling must serue the church I meane with their princely power Theo. You say somwhat In deed kings in that they be kings haue to serue the Lord so as none cā do which are not kings For their power ought so to serue the Lord that by their power they which refuse to be subiect to the wil of God should be punished but this seruice you will not haue thē to busie with if happily they command against your liking you not only discharge thē of their seruice but of their kingdoms also Phi. Not if they serue the church as Esaie saith they should Theo. The seruice that is done to Christ the church imbraceth as done to hir self because she requireth no more but that Christ her Lord master be serued and yet the seruice which I nowe speake of namely to preserue subiects in godlines quietnes with wholsome lawes to fraie men from vices heresies is done to Christ not in respect of himselfe but of his church concerneth the profit welfare of the whole church euery mēber thereof Phi. This is not to serue but to rule the church Theo. Kings as kings that is as publike Magistrates can not serue the church but by defending her members repressing her enemies this is better seruice to God his church than that which
Father or Councell for 800. yeares that proueth the Pope superiour to the Prince Bring somwhat to that end or else say you can not and I am answered Phi. I proue the church superior to the Prince which is enough to confute the supreme power that you giue to Princes Theo. And what for the Pope Shall he be superiour to Princes or no Phi. We wil talke of that an other time we be now reasoning of the church which I trust you will grant to be superiour to Princes God saide to the Church The nation and kingdom that will not serue thee shall perish And kinges shall serue thee Theo. This is right the trade of your Apologie to pretende the church and meane the Pope You sawe you were neuer able to proue the Popes vsurped power ouer Princes and therefore you thought it best to put a visarde of the Church vppon the Popes face and to bring him in that sort disguised to the stage to deceiue the simple with the sounde and shewe of the Church And for that cause your fourth chapter neuer nameth the Pope but stil vrgeth The regiment of the church The iudgement of the church The churches tribunall conuerted kingdomes must serue the church and euerie where the church the church and when the Church is confessed to bee superiour to Princes you set vppe the Pope as heade of the Church to take from her all the superioritie power and authoritie which before you claymed for her and so you make the Church but a cloke-bagge to carrie the Popes titles after him but staie your wisedomes the Church may bee superiour and yet the Pope subiect to Princes Kinges may serue the Church and yet commaund your holie father and his gymmoes the parish Priestes of Rome for their turning winding euery way iustly called Cardinals Phi. Can Princes bee supreme and the church their superiour Theo. Why not Phi. If any thing bee superiour Princes bee not supreme Theo. That I denie The Scriptures bee superiour to Princes and yet they supreme the Sacramentes bee likewise aboue them and yet that hindereth not their supremacie Truth Grace Faith Prayer and other Ghostlie vertues bee higher than all earthly states and all this notwithstanding Princes may bee supreme gouernours of their kingdomes and Countries Phi. You cauill nowe you shoulde compare persons with persons and not thinges with persons there may bee thinges aboue Princes and yet they supreme but if anie persons bee superiour then can they not bee supreme Theo. No The Sainctes in heauen and Angels of God bee persons superiour to Princes and yet may Princes bee supreme Phi. Why Theophilus these bee wrangling quiddities for shame leaue them The Sainctes bee superiour in perfection and dignitie but not in externall vocation and authoritie Theo. I like that you saie but if you looke backe you shall see Philander that you giue iudgement against your selfe Phi. Against my selfe Why so Theo. The Church is superiour to Princes for those very respectes which I nowe repeated First because the Saincts in heauen which are part of the church in happines perfection and dignitie bee many degrees aboue worldely states Secondly though the members of the Church bee subiect and obedient to Princes yet the thinges contayned in the Church and bestowed on the Church by God him-selfe I meane the light of his worde the working of his Sacramentes the giftes of his grace and fruites of his spirite bee farre superiour to all Princes Nowe view your consequent The Church in respect of her members in heauen and graces on earth is aboue the Prince ergo the Prince is not supreme but subiect to the Pope This is worse than wrangling You confound things and persons heauen and earth God and man to beare out the Popes pride Phi. You stretch the name of the church whither you list Theo. I may better stretch it to these thinges which I specifie than you restraine it to one onelie man as you doe But why doe I stretch the church farther than I should The Sainctes in heauen bee they not members of the church Phi. They bee membees of the church which is in heauen Theo. And the church in heauen is it an other church from this on earth or the same with it Phi. I thinke it bee the same Theo. You must not goe by thoughtes Sainct Paul saith You are of the same citie with the Sainctes and Ierusalem which is aboue is no straunger to vs but the mother of vs all Cum ipsis Angelis sumus vna ciuitas Dei cuius pars in nobis peregrinatur pars in illis opitulatur Wee saith Austen are one and the same citie of God with the Angels whereof part wandereth on earth in vs part in them assisteth vs. And againe The true Sion and true Ierusalem is euerlasting in heauen which is the mother of vs all She hath begotten vs shee hath nurced vs in part a stranger on earth in a greater part remaining in heauen For the soules of the godly that be dead be not seuered from the church which euen now is the kingdome of Christ. Certaynely Christ hath but one bodie which is his church and of that body since the Sainctes be the greater and worthier part they must bee counted of the same Church with vs. Phi. I stick not at that so much as at the next where you make the word and Sacramentes togither with their effectes and fruites to be parts of the church Theo. I do not say they be members of the Church but thinges required in the church without the which we can neither become nor continue the members of Christ. In a naturall bodie the spirits and faculties be no members yet without them the members haue neither life motion sense nor action So in the mysticall bodie of Christ the members be men but the meanes and helpes to make vs and keepe vs the members of Christ are the word and Sacraments without the which we can neither be planted quickned nor nourished in Christ. For the members be dead if they liue not by faith if they grow not by grace if they cleaue not by loue to their heade and moue at his will by obedience And therefore these thinges though they bee not members yet they bee ioyntes and sinewes vaines and vessels that giue life groeth strength and state to the bodie of Christ which is his church and may iustly bee called the principall powers or partes of his bodie Phi. Powers if you will but not partes Theo. As though the powers of the soule were not partes of the soule Phi. Not properly partes but powers and faculties Theo. What call you partes Phi. Whereof the whole consisteth Theo. And since without these there can be no Church ergo these be partes of the church Phi. You take partes very largely Theo. No larger than I should The foundation of the house is it not a part of the house Phi. Yes a chiefe
Ecclesiastical causes Theo. Proofes go very low with you when you fal from Princes to inferiour iudges yet mistake your text For Hilarie beseecheth nothing of CoÌ„stantius in that place but that the iudges of euerie Prouince should forbear medling in matters of religioÌ„ with tortures violeÌ„ce The whole book the words before the next part of the same sentence ioyned to this which you bring with a coniunction copulatiue confirme that to bee the true meaning of Hilarie This is the right order of the place We beseech not only with words but also with teares that the catholike churches be no longer oppressed with greeuous iniuries sustain intolerable persecutions coÌ„tumelies that which is shameful eueÌ„ of our brethren Let your clemency prouide appoint that all iudges euery where to whom prouinces are committed which ought to take care charge of commonwealth matters onely refrain from medling with religion Neither let them presume vsurp think they may enter into clergymens causes force vexe innocent men with diuerse afflictions threats violence terrours Your singular admirable wisedome perceiueth it is not seemely it ought not to be that men should be forced coÌ„pelled against their wils harts to yeeld addict themselues through violent oppressioÌ„ to such as cease not to sow the corrupt seeds of false doctrine This was the medling with clergie mens causes that Hilarie ment and which he would haue temporall iudges restrained from and yet were his meaning neuer so generall he required nothing but that which Constantine the father of Constantius had by his publike lawes ordained al christian Princes haue since obserued to wit that Ecclesiasticall persons should be conuented before ecclesiasticall iudges For so Constantine decreed CoÌ„mitting iudgemeÌ„t iurisdiction ouer clearks to Bishops Valentinian the elder would haue priests to iudge of priests Yea Iustinian excludeth all secular iudges from hearing the causes of clergie men except it were for ciuill offences If the crime be ecclesiasticall needing ecclesiasticall reformation punishment let the Bishop determine the same the iudges of the Prouince no way intermedling for we wil not haue temporall iudges enter into such matters where as such faults must be examined ecclesiastically by the sacred and diuine rules and Canons which our lawes take no scorne to follow And though he bar ciuill iudges from the hearing of such causes yet doth not exempt clergie men Bishops nor others from the obedience of his ecclesiastical lawes as the wordes import that bee next to these Omnibus quae iam a nobis sancita sunt siue super sanctiss ecclesus siue super Deo amabilibus Episcopis siue super clericis siue super monachis propriam virtutem habentibus All thinges which we haue already decreed concerning the most holie churches and blessed Bishops and touching clerkes and monks standing in their ful force Hee quiteth clergie men from temporall barres but he bindeth both them and their iudges to the tenor of his ecclesiasticall lawes as well in their Synods as in their Consistories as appeareth at large by his 123. constitution so that this place of Hilarie might well haue been spared saue onely to make vp your tale Phi. Is this your opinion that Princes themselues may lawfully medle with Ecclesiasticall causes and persons though their inferiour iudges may not Theo. We say princes exempted clergie men from secular iudges but not from themselues And that Princes from the beginning haue medled with persons causes Ecclesiasticall wee bring you not onely fiue authorities that shall bee neither maimed nor wrested as yours bee but fiue hundred actes examples lawes and edictes that shall bee strong and effectuall proofes for this purpose Phi. You talke of cost when you saie fiue hundered Theo. Wee coulde far passe that number if the number would moue you to leaue follie but I will go an other waie to worke with you What good king can you name before or after Christ for 1000. yeares but such as medled with Ecclesiasticall matters Phi. Nay what good king can you name that did Theo. They be sooner named than answered Nabuchodonosor in making a law that euery people nation language which spake any blasphemie against the God of Sidrac Misac and Abâ—dnago should bee drawen in peeces their houses made priuies did hee not medle with matters of Religion Phi. Nabuchodonosor was a tyrant The. But being corrected by the diuine miracle he made saith Augustine a religious and commendable law for the truth that who so blasphemed the God of Sidrac Misac and Abednago should with his house perish vtterly Darius vpon the sight of an other miracle wrote to all people nations and languages that dwelt in the world with these words I make a decree that in all the dominion of my kingdome men tremble and feare before the God of Daniell The king of Niniueth hearing of that which Ionas threatned from God proclaimed a fast and charged all men to put on sack-cloath and crie mightily to God and to turne from their euill wayes and the wickednesse that was in their handes I trust you dare not condemne the king of Niniueth for an intruder vpon ecclesiasticall causes whose seruice so well pleased God that he spared the king and his subiectes from destruction hanging ouer their heads and yet fasting praier and repentance be causes meere spirituall in which the king interposed his royall authoritie by the councell of his Nobles and not of Ionas who departed the citie grieued and angrie with God for pardoning the Niniuites vpon their conuersion The factes of these three kinges I alleadge the rather because S. Augustine grounded himselfe vpon them as proofes that christian kinges may medle with matters of Religion and as patternes for them to follow Ye kinges vnderstand be wise ye that iudge the earth serue the Lord with feare and reioyce before him with trembling How do kings serue the Lord in feare but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie those thinges which are done against the precepts of God As the king of Niniueth serued by compelling the whole citie to appease the Lord. As Darius serued by giuing the Idole into Daniels power to bee broken and casting his enemies to the Lions As Nabuchodonosor serued by restraining all that were in his kingdom from blaspheming God with a terrible law And againe WheÌ„ Emperours professe the truth they commaunde for truth against error As Nabuchodonosor proposed an edict for truth against error that whosoeuer blasphemed the God of Sidrach Misaach and Abednago should be destroied and his house dispersed And you Donatistes will not that christian Emperours command any such thing against you If the commaundements of kinges haue nothing to do with the publishing of religion and prohibiting of sacrileges why then do you signe your selues at king Nabuchodosors edict commaunding such thinges For when you heare it doe
you not answere Amen and saying so with a loud voice do you not signe your selues in the holie solemnitie at the kinges edict What Moses Iosua Dauid Salomon Asa Iehosaphat Ezechias Manasses Iosias Nehemias did for the planting preseruing and purging of true religion and how they commaunded reproued and punished as well Priestes as others for spirituall crimes and causes the places are infinite and witnessed in no worse recordes than the Scriptures themselues I will not touch them all but onely shew that euery one of these in their times raignes medled with Ecclesiasticall men and matters which is the point that you would impugne by your allegations Moses the ciuill Magistrate reproued Aaron the high Priest for making the golden calfe and stamping it to powder cast it into the water that Israell might drinke it and in one daie put three thowsand of them for that idolatrie to the sworde And after the rebellion of Corah when the residue were plagued for murmuring against Moses and Aaron Moses commaunded Aarō to take the censer and stand betweene the liuing and the dead to make attonement for the people And as during life Moses guided ruled them in al things both spiritual and temporal so readie to depart he carefully warned and finally blessed the twelue tribes of Israell Iosua that succeeded him a Prince not a Priest was charged by God to meditate in the booke of the law day night that thou maiest obserue saith God and do according to all that is written therein and the people receiued him with this submission As we obeied Moses in all things so will we obey thee Whosoeuer shall rebell against thy commaundement and will not obey thy wordes in all that thou commandest him let him be put to death And least you should thinke that he commaunded in nothing but temporall matters he circumcised the sonnes of Israell erected an Altar of stone for their offerings read the whole law to them there was not a word of all that Moses commaunded which Iosua read not before all the congregation searched and punished the concealer of thinges dedicated to idols not long before he died in his owne person renewed the couenant betweene God and the people caused them to put away the strange Gods that were among them insomuch that by his diligent care and good regiment Israell serued the Lord all the dayes of Iosua How far king Dauid medled with matters of religion if the Psalmes which he made for Asaph and his brethren to sing in assemblies and order which hee set for the whole seruice of the Temple appointing the Priestes Leuites Singers and other Seruitours of the church their dignities courses and offices did not declare the charge which he gaue to king Salomon his sonne and the praise which he gate at Gods handes for the faithfull execution and religious obseruation of his law giuen by Moses in all thinges and causes both spirituall and temporall are sufficient euidence Take heede to the charge of the Lord thy God saith Dauid to Salomon to walke in his waies and keepe his statutes his commaundementes and his iudgementes and his testimonies as it is written in the law of Moses This God himselfe repeated to Salomō proposing Dauid his father for a paterne vnto him If thou wilt walke before me as Dauid thy father walked in purenesse of heart and vprightnes to doe according to all that I haue commaunded thee and keepe my statutes and my iudgementes I will establish the throne of thy kingdom vpon Israell for euer Phi. Do these wordes proue that Dauid did or Salomon might medle with Ecclesiasticall matters Theo. These places and such like doe fully proue that the Kinges and Gouernours of Israell and Iudah were appointed by God himselfe to haue the custodie charge and ouersight of all thinges mentioned and expressed in Moses law Here you see the wordes are to do according to all that I haue commaunded thee and keepe my statutes and iudgementes To Iosua God saide that thou maiest obserue and doe according to all that is written in the booke of the Law and likewise of the king in generall The booke of the Law shall be with him and he shal read therein all the daies of his life that he may learne to keepe all the wordes of this Law and these ordinances to fulfill them The king was charged with all the wordes and ordinances of Moses Law the law of Moses contained al thinges which God required of Priestes or people both spirituall and temporall ergo the king was charged by God himselfe as well with all Ecclesiasticall thinges and causes as with Temporall And consequently Dauid and all other kinges that discharged their duties to God in such sort as hee inioyned them medled with all thinges and causes Ecclesiasticall and Temporall Phi. Frame your argument shorter Theo. They were charged with all ergo they should medle with all and some discharged their dueties to God for example such as were commended and fauored by God whom I before named ergo some did medle with al the preceptes of God both Ecclesiastical and Temporall Phi. They were charged to obserue the whole Law as all other men were Theo. They were charged for their owne persons as all priuate men were but as kinges they were charged for others in such manner as no subiect coulde be charged namely to see the lawe of God to be publikely receiued fully obserued within their Realmes and all other sortes of Religion and policie to bee cleane forbidden and banished Phi. This is your surmise Theo. It is S. Augustines maine collection in sundrie places fet from the verie Principles of reason and nature and confirmed by the warrant of the sacred Scriptures The king serueth God saith Saint Augustine As a man one waie as a king an other way As a man by liuing faithfully as a king by makeing Lawes with conuenient vigor to commaund that which is right forbid the contrarie And againe Kinges euen in that they be kinges haue to serue the Lord in such sort as none can do which are not kinges For kings in respect as they be kinges serue the Lord if in their kingdomes they cōmaund that which is good and forbid that which is euill How then saith he do kinges serue the Lord but by forbidding and punishing with a religious seueritie those thinges that are done against the commaundementes of the Lord And thus much the verie deriuation of the name doth inferre Rex à regendo dicitur a king is he that ruleth others and the relation of the worde doth teach vs there can be no king but in respect of his subiectes and his duetie towardes them is to direct and correct that is to commaund and punish in all thinges needefull Phi. What conclude you of all this Theo. That where God chargeth the king to keepe and obserue
molten Images And they brake downe in his sight the Altars of Baalim and hee caused to cut downe the images that were on them he brake also the groues and the karued molten images and stampt them to powder and strewed it vpō the graues of them that had sacrificed on them Also hee burnt the bones of the Priestes vpon their Altars and purged Iudah and Ierusalem And when hee had destroyed the Altars and cut downe all the idols throughout the lande of Israell he returned to Ierusalem Then the king sent and gathered all the Elders of Iudah and Ierusalem And the king went vp to the house of the Lord and all the men of Iudah and inhabitantes of Ierusalem and the Priestes and the Leuites and all the people from the greatest to the smallest and hee read in their eares all the wordes of the booke of the couenant that was found in the house of the Lord. And the king stood by his Piller and made a couenant before the Lord to walke after the Lord and to keepe his commandementes and his statutes with all his heart with all his soule that hee would accomplish the wordes of the couenant written in that booke And hee caused al that were found in Ierusalem and Beniamin to stand to the couenant So Iosias tooke awaie all the abominations out of all the countries that pertained to the children of Israell and compelled all that were founde in Israell to serue the Lord their God al his dayes they turned not backe from the Lord God of their fathers Moreouer Iosiah kept a Passouer vnto the Lord in Ierusalem and hee appointed the Priestes to their charges and said to the Leuites Serue now the Lord your God and his people Israell prepare your selues by the houses of your fathers according to your courses as Dauid the king of Israell hath written and according to the writing of Salomon his sonne And stand in the sanctuarie according to the diuision of the families of your brethren Kill the Passouer and sanctifie your selues and prepare your brethren that they may doe according to the word of the Lord by the hande of Moses Thus the seruice was prepared and the Priestes stood in their places also the Leuites in their orders according to the kinges commaundement So all the seruice of the Lord was prepared the same day to keepe the Passouer to offer burnt offeringes vpon the Altar of the Lord according to the commaundement of king Iosiah Nehemias though he were no king but a captaine sent frō king Artaxerxes yet he discerned resisted the Prophetes that would haue put him in feare was the first that sealed the couenant between God the people with an oth to walke in the law of God and to obserue all the commaundementes of the Lord. And he displaced Tobiah an Ammonite whom Eliashib the high Priest had receiued and lodged within the court of the house of God and cast out all the vessels of the house of Tobiah and commaunded them to clense the chambers for the vessels of the house of God And reproued the rulers for that the house of God was forsaken the Sabbaoth day broken assembling the Leuites singers setting them their places charging the Leuites to clense themselues and to sanctifie the Sabbaoth daie And when he saw Iewes that maried strange wiues he rebuked them and cursed them and smote certain of them tooke an oth of them by God that they should not mary with strangers And one of the sonnes of Ioiadah the sonne of Eliashib the high Priest maried the daughter of Sanballat the Horonite but Nehemiah chased him awaie and clensed the Priestes and Leuites from all strangers and appointed them their courses euerie one in his office There needeth no great skill to set this togither To remoue idols all abominations out of the land to enter a couenāt with God to walke in his waies to proclaime fastes an d make publike praiers to sanctifie the Temple and celebrate the Passouer to seeke and serue God according to his law bee matters ecclesiasticall not temporall and yet in the same cases the godly kinges of Iudah commaunded and compelled all that were found in Iudah Priest and Prophet man and woman to stand to that order which they tooke for the better accomplishing of those their interprises Acknowledge that right and power in Christian Princes at this day to medle with matters of Religion which the Scriptures report and commend in kinges of religious and famous memorie we presse you no farther If you sticke to graunt so much others will not stick to distrust the soundnesse of your doctrine notwithstanding the smoothnesse of your tongues and loftynesse of your spirites wherewith you thinke to compasse and quaile kingdomes Phi. The kinges of Iudah did that which they did at the motion of the Prophetes and direction of the Priestes Theo. You shun that which you shal not auoide Wee reason not who moued and aduised but who decreed and commaunded these thinges to be done Priestes or Princes The Scriptures in plaine termes saie that Princes DECREED APPOINTED COMMANDED them to be done Contradict the wordes if you dare Take from Asa Iehosaphat Ezechias Iosias the king of Niniueth and others the Princely power which they shewed due praise which they merited in medling with these matters impugne the words whereby God expresseth approueth their doings see whether the consciēces of all good men will not detest abhor your wilfull impietie Phi. The Scripture saith in deede they commaunded appointed decreed these thinges but no doubt they were directed by Prophetes and other spirituall Pastours what they should do Theo. What if they were Doth that hinder their authoritie Princes in ciuill affaires are guided and directed by learned and wise Counsellers doe they therefore not commaund in temporall matters neither Or finde you no difference betweene counselling and commaunding Phi. Againe these Princes were before the comming of Christ when as yet there was no supreme Pastour ouer the whole Church Theo. There was an high Priest ouer the twelue Tribes with surer and better authoritie than your holy father can shewe for him-selfe All Israell by Gods owne mouth were referred to the iudgement of the Priestes and Leuites and not to decline from the thing which they speake The man saith God that will do presumptuouslie not harkning vnto the Priest that standeth before the Lord to minister that man shall die This was their commission yet this notwithstanding the kings of Iudah commaunded both Prist and people for matters of religion And so did the Christian Emperours after the comming of Christ for eight hundred yeares that wee shewe commaund both Bishoppes and others yea the Bishoppe of Rome no lesse than others in causes as well Ecclesiasticall as Temporall The particulars I noted before The Lawes were publike
impossible reproueable by all diuine and humane learning which neuer king much lesse Queene Christian nor heathen Catholike nor heretike in this Realme or in all the worlde besides before our age did chalenge or accept You heape authorities and absurdities and terrifie the simple with woordes and crakes of the largest life as if the doctrine were so barbarous and monsterous that heathen and prophane men would abhorre it and when the bottom of your skil is seene and the pride of your tongues spent notwithstanding your often and ioyly profers you neuer so much as come neere the question Phi. Will you make vs beleeue that Theo. Marke the points that wee teach and see howe wide you bee from refuting that which wee defend Wee say Princes onely be Gouernours that is higher powers ordayned of God and bearing the sword with lawful and publike authoritie to command for trueth to prohibite and with the sword punish errors and al other ecclesiastical disorders as well as temporall within their Realmes This wee proue this you graunt to bee good and sound doctrine Of this then there is no question betwixt vs. Secondly wee teach that as all their subiects Bishoppes and others must obey them commanding that which is good in matters of religion and endure them with patience when they take part with error so they their Scepters and swordes bee not subiect to the Popes tribunall neither hath he by the lawe of God or by the Canons of the Church any power or preeminence to reuerse their doings and depose their persons but this is a wicked and arrogant vsurpation lately crept into the West partes of Europe since the Bishops of Rome exalted themselues aboue all that is called God and for this cause we confesse Princes within their owne regiments to bee SVPREME that is not vnder the Popes iurisdiction neither to bee commaunded nor displaced at his pleasure but to bee reserued to the righteous and Soueraigne iudgement of God who will syncerely iudge and seuerely punish both Popes and Princes if they bolster or suffer any kind of Impietie within their dominions This is the very point that is in question betwixt vs of which in your whole Apologie you speake not one woord but cunningly shift your handes of it knowing your selues not able to iustifie your wicked assertion And lest the reader should distrust your silence in that behalfe you followe the woorde supreme with huy and crie as if God were highly dishonoured and the Church of Christ robbed of her right and inheritance because the Pope may not set his feete in Princes neckes and be Lord Paramount of all earthly states and kingdomes Phi. Doe wee mistake your meaning or doe you rather pull in your hornes when you see your selues compassed round with so many grolie and sensible absurdities Theo. What one inconuenience can you fasten on vs for teaching this doctrine Phi. A thousand Theo. You bee better at craking than concluding Proue but one and spare the rest Phi. This Soueraigntie giueth power to the Queene to conferre that to others as to the Priestes and Bishops to preach minister Sacraments haue cure of soules and such like which shee neither hath nor can haue nor doe her selfe It giueth her that may neither preach nor speake in publike of matters of religion to do that which is much more euen to prescribe by her selfe or her deputies or Lawes authorised onely by her to the preachers what to preach which way to worship and serue God howe and in what forme to minister the Sacraments to punish and depriue teach and correct them and generally to prescribe and appoint which way shee will bee gouerned in soule It maketh the body aboue the soule the temporall regiment aboue the spiritual the earthly kingdom◠aboue Christs body mysticall It maketh the sheepe aboue the Pastor It giueth her power to command them whom and wherein she is bound to obey It giueth power to the subiect to be iudge of the Iudges yea and of God himselfe as S. Cyprian speaketh It maketh her free from Ecclesiasticall discipline from which no true child of Gods familie is exempted It derogateth from Christes Priesthoode which both in his owne person and in the Church is aboue his kingly dignitie It diuideth which is a matter of much importance the state of the Catholike Church and the holy communion or societie of all Christian men in the same into as many partes not communicant one with on other nor holding one of an other as there bee worldly kingdomes differing by customes Lawes and manners eche from other which is of most pernitious sequele and against the very natiue qualitie of the most perfect coniunction societie vnitie and entercourse of the whole Church and euery Prouince and person thereof together It openeth the gappe to all kinde of diuisions schismes sectes disorders It maketh all Christian Bishops Priestes and what other soeuer borne out of the Realme forainers and vsurpers in all iurisdiction Ecclesiasticall towardes vs there can bee no iurisdiction ouer English mens soules but prooceeding and depending of her soueraigne right therein Which is directly against Christes expresse commaundement and commission giuen to Peter first and then to all the Apostles of preaching baptizing remitting retayning binding and loosing ouer all the worlde without difference of temporall state or dependance of any mortall Prince therein It keepeth the Realme from obedience to generall Councels which haue beene or shal be gathered in forraine Countries It taketh away al conuenient meanes of gathering holding or executing any 〈◊〉 Councels and their decrees as appeared by refusing to come to the late Councell of Trent notwithstanding the Popes messengers letters of other great Princes which requested and inuited them to the same When a Realme or Prince is in error it taketh away all meanes of reducing them to the trueth againe no subiection being acknowledged to Councels or Tribunals abroad all other Bishoppes Patriarkes Apostles Christ and all because they were and bee forrainers not hauing iurisdiction nor sufficient authoritie to define against English Sectaries and errors Finally if this iurisdiction spirituall bee alwaies of right a sequele of the Crowne and scepter of all Kings assuredly Christ nor none of his Apostles could otherwise enter to conuert Countries preach and exercise iurisdiction spirituall without Caesars and others the Kinges of the Countries licence and delegation Theo. Upon what part of our doctrine inferre you these absurdities Phi. Upon the supremacie wherewith you flatter Princes For all these thinges be consequent to the princes ecclesiasticall soueraigntie Theo. You must tell vs howe Phi. See you not that Theo. Surely not I. There bee two partes of our assertion as I shewed you before the first auouching that Princes may commaunde for trueth and abolish errour the next that Princes bee supreme that is not subiect to the Popes iudiciall processe to bee cited suspended deposed at his becke
them all obedience with armed violence to take their swords from them but thereof more hereafter In the meane time your argument is very foolish Priestes must not deliuer the Sacramentes but on such conditions as God hath limited ergo Priests be superiour to Princes You might haue concluded ergo God is superiour to them both in that he prescribeth how the one shal deliuer the other take the Seales of his grace but for the Priest no such illation can be made For were you Porter in any Princes palace and commaunded that no man Noble nor other shoulde enter the Court with weapon woulde you thence conclude your selfe superiour to all the Nobles and counsellours of the Land because you might not suffer thē to come within the gates except they first lay their swords aside or would you rather excuse your selfe that the Princes precept being streit and you a seruaunt you could not choose but do your dutie and put them in minde of your Lord and masters pleasure Phi. Our case is not like The. You say truth You haue not so much reason to make Priestes superiour to Princes as this Officer hath to prefer himselfe before all other persons Princes haue soueraign power ouer the goods liues bodies of Priestes Nobles haue not ouer the meanest attendant in the Princes Court Princes must be obeyed or endured with meekenesse and reuerence offer they neuer so hard dealing to their Preachers and Pastours That submission no man oweth to any subiect be he neuer so Noble And therefore euerie seruant in the Princes house hath better cause to aduance himselfe before al the Nobles of the Realme than you haue to set the Priest aboue the Prince whom God himselfe hath pronounced superiour to the Priestes and to whom he will haue euerie soule bee they Monkes Priestes or Bishoppes to be subiect with al submission duetie Much lesse is this a warrant for you to depose Princes and to pursue them with armes against the preceptes of God against the generall and continuall obedience and order of Christs Church as you shal perceiue in place where for this present go on with your absurd lies I shoulde haue said absurdities Phi. It derogateth from Christes Priesthood which both in his owne person and in the Church is aboue his kingly dignitie Theo. Call you this a derogation from Christes Priesthood if the Pope may not tread Princes vnder his feet Your Seminaries must needes be famous that coine vs such conclusions Phi. Neuer mocke at our Seminaries you shall finde them too well furnished for your stoare Theo. So wee thinke your learning is so strange it passeth our intelligence Wee fooles conceiue not how these thinges hang togither For first what meane you by this The Priesthood of Christ in his owne person is aboue his kingly dignitie He is king of glorie in that he is the sonne of God can you name any thing in Christ that is aboue his diuine dignitie Your doctrine is verie curious if it be not dangerous The glorie of the sonne of God as hee is owner and ruler of all thinges in heauen and earth hath no title nor name aboue it As a Priest he purged our sinnes in humilitie as a king hee nowe doeth and euer shall raigne in the highest degree of celestiall and euerlasting glorie His Priesthood washed our vncleannesse in this life His kingdome placeth and preserueth men and Angels in perfect and eternall blisse If you speake this in respect of vs that the Priesthood of Christ which washeth our sinnes and saueth vs from the wrath to come is more comfortable and accceptable to our weake consciences by reason of our guiltinesse and daily transgressions than the power wherewith hee subdueth his enemies besides the straungenesse of your speach that his Priestood should bee aboue his kinglie dignitie in his owne person note the losenesse of your argument The Priesthood of Christ in fauour and mercie to vs ward is aboue his power ergo the Prince must be subiect to the Pope May not we much rather conclude Christ cōpelleth punisheth as a king not as a Priest ergo power to commaund punish belongeth to the kingdom not to the Priesthood that is to the Magistrate not to the minister Phi. It diuideth which is a matter of much importance the state of the Catholike Church and the holie communion or societie of all Christian men in the same into as manie partes not communicant one with an other nor holding one of an other as there be worldlie kingdoms differing by Customs Lawes manners ech from other which is of much pernicious sequele and against the verie natiue quality of the most perfect coniunction society vnitie and intercourse of the whole Church euery Prouince and Person thereof togither Theo. It is a most pernicious fansie to thinke the communion of Christes Church dependeth vpon the Popes person or regimēt and that diuerse nations and countries differing by customes lawes maners so they hold one the same rule of faith in the band of peace can not be parts of the Catholike Church communicant one with an other perfectly vnited in spirite and truth ech to other And fie on your follies that racke your Creede rob Christ of his honor and the Church of all her comfort and securitie whiles you make the vnitie and societie of Christes members to consist in obedience to the Bishop of Rome and not in coherence with the sonne of God The communion of Saintes and neere dependaunce of the Godly ech of other and all of their heade standeth not of externall rites customes and manners as you woulde fashion out a Church obseruing the Popes Canons and deseruing his pardones as his deuote and zealous children but in beleeuing the same trueth tasting of the same grace resting on the same hope calling on the same God reioycing in the same spirite whereby they bee sealed sanctified and preserued against the daie of redemption And why may not Christians in all kingdomes countries haue this communion and fellowshippe though they lacke your holy fathers beads blessinges and such like bables To what ende you alleadge S. Augustine in that place which you quote we cannot so much as coniecture you must speake plainly what you would haue we be not bounde to make search for your meaning As for the communion of the Catholike Church it is not broken by the varietie and diuersitie of rites customes Lawes and fashions which many places and Countries haue different ech from others except they be repugnant to faith or good manners as S. Augustine largely debateth in his epistle to Ianuarius and Irineus whē the bishop of Rome would haue cut the East Churches from the communion of the West for obseruing Easter after an other maner order than their brethrē did sharpely reproued him and shewed him that Polycarpus and Anicetus dissenting in the same case Communionem
such as be worthie Phi. No. Theo. Then do you giue the same power to the Pope which God claimeth to him-selfe to displace the wicked from their thrones Phi. But vnder God Theo. If your holy father do this without a particular and precise warrant from God hee doth it not vnder God but as well as God that which is in this case done without God is against God But on with your example of Samuel Saul was deposed of his kingdome by Gods appointment and sentence which Samuel pronounced vnto Saul from the mouth of God Ergo what Phi. Ergo king Saul was deposed Theo. Grant he were by whom was it done by God or by Samuel Phi. God prescribed the sentence but Samuel pronounced it Theo. In whose name did Samuel speake in Gods or his own Phi. In Gods Theo. Said he more than God commaunded him Phi. I thinke not Theo. Then God spake the worde and God gaue the iudgement against Saul only Samuel was sent to tell Saul so much that was sore against Samuels will as appeareth by his mourning for Saul which God reproued in him And now to turn your own exāple on your own head I trust God hath as much right to depose Princes as the Pope Phi. What then The. Did all Israel Iudah sinne in obeying Saul so many yeares after hee was deposed by God and an other annointed in his place Phi. They did it for feare because Saul kept the kingdom by tyrannical force notwithstanding his deposition Theo. Did Dauid sinne in seruing Saul long after himselfe was annointed Phi. He durst not doe otherwise Theo. When Dauid had Saul alone in the caue and might haue slain him did he well to spare him Phi. He might lawfully haue killed him as S. Augustine deduceth but he would not Theo. Of that anon in the meane time was it a lie in Dauid to call him his master and the Lords annointed after his deposition Phi. He called him so in respect he had bin so though presently he were not so Theo. Nay Dauid affirmed y◠at that present he was so The Lord saith Dauid keepe me from laying mine hand on him For he is the Lords annointed And after shewing that this was his dutie and not his curtesie when he founde him asleepe one of his Captaines would haue slain him he said Destroy him not for who can lay his hand on the Lords annointed be giltles Where Dauid maketh it no fauor to spare him but a sin to touch him And to the messenger that brought him news of Sauls death How wast thou not afraide saith Dauid to put foorth thine hand to destroy the annointed of the Lord And commaunding the fellow to bee thrust through Thy blood saith hee bee vpon thine owne head for thine own mouth hath witnessed against thee saying I haue slaine the Lords annointed If all Israel obeyed Saul notwithstanding the sentence of God pronounced against him if Dauid himselfe after his annointing serued honored Saul as his master called counted him the Lords annointed to the houre of his death abhorring it as a sinne in himselfe to lay hands on him seuerely punishing it in an other that did it How can you warrant rebellion against Princes or make it a meritorious act to murder them whom the Pope without all authoritie frō God presumeth to displace Phi. Dauid might lawfully haue killed Saul as S. Austen sheweth against Adamātius but he would not The. The words of Dauid are plain to the cōtrary speaking of Saul himselfe Who can lay his hand saith he on the Lordes annointed be guiltles He could not be guilty but of a sinne it had bin therfore no lawful but a sinful deed for any man Dauid himselfe not excepted to haue killed Saul in respect he then was so continued till he died The Lordes annointed Phi. S. Augustine saith Dauid might haue killed Saul without feare His words be Dauid had his enemie persecutour king Saul in his power to do with him what hee woulde and hee chose rather to spare him than to kill him Hee was not commaunded to kill him neither was hee prohibited Imo etiam diuinitus audierat se impunè facere quicquid vellet inimico Yea rather hee had hearde at Gods mouth that hee might freelie handle an enemie how he would and yet so great authoritie hee conuerted to curtesie Theo. Adimantus helde opinion that the olde Testament was contrarie to the newe because the Lawe as hee thought permitted reuenge and allowed men to kill their enimies where the Gospell commaundeth vs to praie for our enimies and to loue them as the wordes of our Sauiour doe witnesse This obiection Sainct Augustine refelleth by shewing that the killing of the Nations which God commaunded proceeded of loue not of hatred and that the iust of the olde Testament loued and fauoured their enimies when it was expedient for them so to do as namely Dauid that spared king Saul his enimie and persecutour though he might easilie haue slaine him Philand Sainct Augustines worde is impunè hee might freely haue doone what hee woulde to him Theoph. Whether that were Sainct Augustines perswasion or an aduauntage taken vppon Adimantus assertion the place it selfe doeth not expresse of the twaine I thinke the later to bee the truer For this was Adimantus erronious position that the Lawe licenced the Iewes to kill their enimies and you may not well charge Sainct Augustine there-with least you bring him againe within the compasse of the Manichees errour Sure it is Sainct Augustine doeth not grounde his speech on this that Saul was deposed and therefore might haue iustly beene destroyed which is our case but on the permission of reuenge which the Lawe of Moses seemed to graunt Dauid towarde his enimie as well as all others towardes their enimies marie that was no right exposition but a misconstruction of the Lawe sufficient to refute Adimantus because it was his owne but not rashly to bee fathered on Sainct Augustine in respect of his learning and credit otherwise in the church of God For the lawe of God gaue no man leaue to kill his enimie but that precept was to bee referred to the Magistrate to whome God gaue the sworde lawfully to kill such as were by his Lawe adiudged to die which our Sauiour doth not prohibite in the new Testament but reproueth the Iewes for hauing this false conceit of Gods lawe that euery priuate person might hate his enimies and loue his neighbours they corruptly expounding neighbours for friendes and acquaintance and assureth them that to loue their enimies and pray for their persecutors which hee then prescribed them was no new addition but the ancient and true intention of Gods law These wordes then Dauid had heard by the Lawe of God for speciall reuelation from God to Dauid Sainct Augustine knewe none that hee might doe freely what hee would to an enimie are assumed
against Adimantus as part of his owne confession and former obiection and conclude that either Adimantus mistooke the meaning of the law as in deede hee did or that Dauid perfourming the precept of Christ when hee spared his enimie gaue example that others vnder the Lawe shoulde doe the like and so the Law neither waie repugnant to the Gospell as his conclusion imported And if any thinke it much Sainct Augustine should pitch himselfe on other mens wordes as they were apparant truethes hee must remember hee dealt with the Manichees that receiued no Scriptures but such as they listed and therefore to presse them with their owne position was a neerer waie to confounde them than to loade them with Scriptures which they regarded not and that maketh Sainct Augustine giue sometimes not the soundest solution hee coulde but the readiest to stoppe their mouthes with their owne assertions Otherwise Sainct Augustine was plainely resolued that Dauid so much esteemed in Saul the holinesse of his regall inunction euen vnto his death that hee trembled at heart for cutting the lappe of Sauls garment Quaero si non habebat Saul sacramenti sanctitatem quid in eo Dauid venerabatur nam eum propter sacrosanctam vnctionem honorauit viuum vindicauit occisum Et quia vel panniculum ex eius veste praescidit percusso corde trepidauit Ecce Saul non habebat innocentiam tamen habebat sanctitatem non vitae sed vnctionis If Saul had not the holinesse of the sacrament I demand what it was that Dauid reuerenced in him For the sacred and holy vnction of a king hee honoured Saul liuing and reuenged his death on him that saide hee slue him And because himselfe had cut but the lap of Saules coate hee was strooken and trembled at heart for the fact Behold Saul was not innocent yet had hee the holinesse not of life but of his annointing Phi. If Dauid might not lawfully haue slaine Saul Dauid might not beare armes against Saul for the putting himselfe in armes proueth hee was either lawfull king or a manifest rebel against the king which I thinke you will not affirme Theo. Dauid was neither king as yet when hee did this nor rebell against the king Hee put him-selfe in armes not to seeke the kingdome nor to subdue the vsurper as you vainly suppose hee fledde to saue his life as euery subiect may by your doctrine doinges yea though life be not sought Phi. Howe coulde Dauid bee annointed if Saul were not first deposed Theoph. You misconster Samuels wordes For by them the Scepter was not taken out of Saules handes but his seede reiected from inheriting the kingdome Philand Nay Samuel sayde vnto him God hath cast thee awaie from being king And againe The Lord hath rent the kingdome of Israel from thee this day hath giuen it to thy neighbor What can this import but he was personallie deposed from the gouernment Theophi The present possession of the kingdome was not denyed him but the inheritaunce of it to him and his issue By a king Samuel ment not one that shoulde gouerne during his life for so did the Iudges of Israel before Saul that were no kinges but one that should haue the kingdome to him and his after him by waye of inheritaunce For that was it which the children of Israel respected when they required a King which was not a Gouernour for the time but a setled succession in the regiment as other Nations had This was it that Samuell saide vnto Saul when he first reproued him Thou hast doone foolishly thou hast not kept the commaundement of the Lord for haddest thou kept it the Lord had now established thy kingdom vpon Israell for euer But now thy kingdom shal not continue This was it that Samuel ment the seconde time when he more sharpely rebuked Sauls disobedience Because thou hast cast awaye the worde of the Lord therefore hath he cast away thee from being king And againe The Lord hath rent the kingdome of Israel from thee this daie and hath giuen it to thy neighbour not meaning his person shoulde bee degraded but the kingdom remoued both from his line and from his tribe Phi. This is your priuate sense for the wordes sound that he should not bee king ouer Israell Theo. Sainct Augustine him-selfe expoundeth these verie wordes as I do Iste cui dicitur spernit te Dominus ne sis Rex super Israel dirupit Dominus Regnum ab Israel de manu tua hodie quadraginta annos regnauit super Israell tanto scilicet spacio temporis quanto ipse Dauid audiuit hoc primo tempore regni sui vt intelligamus ideo dictum quia nullus de stirpe eius fuerat regnaturus Saul to whome it was sayde the Lorde will cast thee away that thou shalt not bee king ouer Israell and the Lorde hath rent the kingdome from Israell out of thine hand this daie euen hee raigned fourtie yeares as long as Dauid him-selfe and this hee hearde in the verie beginning of his raigne that wee shoulde vnderstand it therefore to be spoken because none of his stocke should raigne after him And hadde not Sainct Augustine goone cleare with vs the circumstaunces of the Scriptures doe thus lymitte the wordes of Samuel For Dauid was then a verie young boie or as the text sayeth a little one keeping sheepe when hee was annointed hauing neither age experience nor strength fit for the present vndertaking of the kingdome Next Dauid neither claymed nor pretended any right to the Crowne during Saules life but serued and obeyed Saul as his liege Lorde and Master whiles hee lyued and so confessed him to bee Thirdly Saul him-selfe neuer obiected this vnto Dauid that he sought the kingdome from him but from his sonnes for so he said to Ionathan As long as the sonne of Ishai liueth vpon the earth thou shalt not be established nor thy kingdō And the priests that were charged with treason for helping Dauid did not answere as you do that Saul was an vsurper Dauid the right king but Who is so faithful among all thy seruants as Dauid goeth at thy commandement witnessing for Dauid that he behaued himselfe as a faithfull subiect vnto Saul not as a claimer of the crown from Saul Thus al the Tribes of Israel conceiued constred the wordes of Samuel For when they came to make Dauid king after Sauls death they said In time past when Saul was our king thou leddest Israel in out the Lorde saide vnto thee thou shalt feed my people Israel and thou shalt be captaine ouer my people Israel So came all the elders of Israel and annoynted Dauid king ouer Israel according to the word of the Lord by the hand of Samuel The text it self alleadgeth Gods own words Samuels act not for the present possession but for the rightfull succession of the crowne that after Sauls death
it did belong to Dauid Phi. The annointing of a second king is it not the deposing of the former Theo. God often times annointed him that should succeede as when hee willed Elias to annoint Hazael king of Syria Benhadad his master yet liuing likewise to annoint Elizeus the Prophet in his own roome whereby neither Benhadad was deposed from his kingdom nor Elias depriued of his ministerie but â—uccessours appointed to them both Phi. You see in what sort also Ieroboam king of Israel had a special Prophet sent to him to denounce the intended iudgementes of God against him his Posterity for his schisme and separation of his people from the old ancient true worship of God in Ierusalem for erecting a new altar in Bethel in which al schisme and diuision from the Apostolike See is properly prefigured for creating of a wicked clergie out of AaroÌ„s order I meane new hungrie base inordered Priests the patern of heretical ministers thrust vp out of the aray orderly succession creation of Apostolike priesthood a crime so highly afterward both in him and his stock according to Gods former denunciation reuenged that none of his house was left to pisse against a wal Yet hee fondly sought to apprehend the man of God to kil him for bringing this newes which he accounted high treason against his Regalty Theo. You promised to proue that Princes might bee lawfully deposed by Priests now slipping cleane from the question you shew that God threatned destruction to wicked princes charged his Prophets to go to them tel them so much from him to their faces Who euer doubted of this or which way draw you this to make for your purpose If God may iustly reuenge the sinnes of all men euen of Princes themselues and oftentimes doth wil you thence inferre that Priests or Prophets may depriue Princes of their kingdoms Phi. A priest denounced Ieroboam to be a wicked schismatike Theo. He was a Prophet no Priest that cried out against the Altar of Bethel in Ieroboams presence spake not one worde of Ieroboams schisme or deposition but onely that king Iosiah should sacrifice the Idolatrous Priests burne their bones on that Altar which came to passe 300. yeares after Ieroboam was dead Such mighty reasons you bring to iustifie the deposing displacing of Princes by the Bishop of Rome that when all is saide your own glosing interlacing besides the text is the best ground of your argumeÌ„t That Ieroboams erecting a new Altar in Bethel properly prefigured our diuision froÌ„ the Apostolike See so you call Rome that his new hungrie base inordered priests are a paterne of our ministers these be the blasts of your spirit caÌ„kers of your mouth they touch not vs but in your deceiued exaspered fansie We haue forsaken the struÌ„pet that made drunk the inhabitants of the earth with the wine of her fornication are gone out of her lest we should be partakers in her sins receiue of her plagues otherwise we haue diuided ouer selues neither from God nor his church That the clergie of England is vpthrust hungrie base is but the vnloding of your disdainful stomakes in deed your boy-priests haue a brauer fashion to ruffle in their silks and colors think themselues no cast ware as if the sight of Rhemes or Rome did by by make them Iosephs betters in dignity AbrahaÌ„s equals in grauity for our part wee are that wee are by the grace of God wee hope in his mercy his grace in vs shal not be in vaine But what is this to the question whether the Pope may depose princes or no you began with a matter which you neuer came neere now you be clean besides For what doth Gods threatning or punishing of Ieroboam concern the Popes deposing degrading of princes God repaied the wickednes which Ieroboam committed with fearful plagues on him his whole house after him Ahias the prophet did not spare to tel Ieroboams wife that God would do it not leaue one of his line to wet a wal Euery preacher may do the like that is they may protest assure princes that Godwil not leaue their sins vnpunished both with temporall eternall plagues yet euery preacher may not depose princes Yea the preacher of God may do the like to the pope himselfe and yet you thinke it no reason that euery preacher should depose the Pope Much lesse wil it follow that your holy father may thrust princes from their seates because the Prophets of God in old time reproued princes for their Idolatries Ph. Ozias also or Vsia king of Iuda puffed vp with intolerable pride as the scripture saith not coÌ„tented with his kingly souerainty but presuming to execute spiritual priestly function was valiantly by Azarias 80. priests with him assailed thrust out of the temple by force At what time for that he threatned the priests of God resisted them with violeÌ„ce he was stroken with a filthy leprosie so not only thrust out of the teÌ„ple but by their authoritie seuered also from al companie of men a special figure of the priests power to excoÌ„municate for heresie as wel princes as others in the new law finally the regiment of his kingdom was committed to his sonne A cleare example that priests may vse armes represse impietie by forcible waies where it may serue to the preseruation of religion and honor of God Theo. Vzziah presuming to burn incense on the Altar of God which was the priests office was stroken with a leprosie liued as a leper in an house apart froÌ„ meÌ„ to the day of his death A faire warning for princes not to wax proud against God nor to vsurpe thinges interdicted them by the law of God But that Azarias the priest and 80. of his brethren valiantly assailed the kinges person and thrust him out by force or that the regiment of his kingdom passed from him as depriued of his right and descended to his sonne these be your additions and imaginations the text hath no such things Azarias his brethren withstood the king but in wordes rebuking him for the breach of Gods law which they might not manfully assailing the Magistrate nor laying violent hands on him to thrust him out of the temple as your martial termes do import If the scripture it selfe do not content you repeating the words wherewith Azarias resisted the king heare Chrysost. conclusion vpoÌ„ this place After the Priest had reproued the atteÌ„pt the king would not yeeld but offered armes shilds speares vsed his power then the priest turning himselfe to God I haue done saith he my duty to warn him I can go no farther Nam Sacerdotis est taÌ„tum arguere for it is the priests part only to reproue freely to admonish with words not to assaile
with armes not to vse targets not to handle speares not to bend bowes not to cast dartes but only to reproue and freely to warne This therefore is no cleare example that Priests may vse armes represse impietie by forcible wayes as you infer but a wicked abusing drawing of the scriptures to serue your warlike dispositions For Gods mans law wil assure you that priests bishops may be no warriers in their owne persons if you regard not that your own law will teach you that no clergie man may put himselfe in armes no not at the commaundement of the Bishop of Rome Pope Iohn saith Tractare de armis terrenae potescatis est To meddle with armes pertayneth to the ciuill power Pope Innocentius saith Christ who was the paterne of al priests forbad carnal weapons to be taken in hand for him A councel at Toledo in Spain Clergie men that in any factiō whatsoeuer wittingly take armes shal loose their degree be thrust in some Abbay for euer An other at Meaux in Fraunce Whatsoeuer they be that be of the clergy let thē take no warlike weapons in hand nor go with armes If they doe let them loose their degree as contemners of the sacred canōs prophaners of ecclesiasticall dignity The full resolution of all these canons by the confession of your law is this Hijs ita respondetur Sacerdotes propria manu arma arripere non debent The meaning of these places is that priests themselues in their own persons should not take weapon You heard before how often S. Paul charged that a Bishop should be no fighter nor striker and that the weapons of their warfare were not carnall and by the Lordes owne voice that he which striketh his fellowe seruauntes shall haue his portion with hypocrites What a desperate conclusion then haue you wrested out of this example against your own canons against the sacred Scriptures that priestes may not onely vse armes and represse impietie by forcible waies but assayle the person of their Soueraigne with open violence which if it were lawfull for them to vse armes as it is for others they might not so much as touch The precept of God is plaine Touch not mine annointed which reacheth to others but chiefly to Princes You may not speake euill of them can it be lawful for you to doe euill To resist them is damnation what is it then with armed violence to oppresse them Dauid was touched in his hart for cutting off the lap of Sauls garmēt you boldly conclude that priests with their own hands may violate the Princes person And where a cursing thought against them is a sinne before God a murdering hand vpon them is a merit by your doctrine Phi. We take our light from this example For here the Priests as the text saith not only resisted but when they saw the king become a leper they expelled him out of the Sāctuarie Theo. The word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 signifieth they caused or gat him to hasten thence but not with violence for the next words shew that he was forced of himself to go foorth because the Lord had strokē him And so the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 doth signifie the common translation which you call S. Hieroms hath for it Ipse accelerauit egredi he made hast of himselfe to go forth as terrified with the plague which he felt Phi. The Priests seuered him from al companie of men a special figure of the priests power to excommunicate for heresie as wel Princes as others in the new law the regiment of his kingdom was cōmitted to his son The. You promised ful proofes out of the word of God that priests might depose Princes now you come with empty figures of your own applying without truth or coherence Vzziah dwelt apart in an house from others because of his leprosie for so the law of God cōmanded the danger of that disease required but that the Priests seuered him frō al company this is your own making without the booke the text hath no such wordes much lesse do you find in the scriptures that he was depriued of his kingdom Iothan his son gouerned his house iudged the people of the Land because the king himselfe might not be conuersant among men by reason of his sicknes but the crowne still continued in the father though a leper Iothan began not his raign til his father was dead whom the scripture calleth the king of Iudah in the twentie fifth yeare of his raigne and last yere of his life Ph. Whose dutie was it to separate Lepers from sound Persons but only the Priests Theo. The Priests were to discerne who were lepers but the Magistrate was to see thē put apart to keepe them from infecting others The putting lepers asunder from others was first cōmanded to the childrē of Israel by them first executed though the pronoūcing them to be lepers was alwaies reserued to the Priest Phi. And the leprosie of the body resembleth the leprosie of the soule Ergo Priests may separate Princes from the church for heresie apostasie which be the sores of the inward mā as the leprosie is of the outward The. You must proue first before your cōclusion wil follow that lepers by the law of God lost their inheritance which is not true Next that euery Prince sinning must be deposed which is as false For leprosy resembleth not only heresie or apostasie but al kind of iniquitie Ambrose saith Contemptus verbi est lepra mentis the cōtempt of the word is the leprosie of the mind And so Chrysostom The leprosie of the soule which is sinne is onely to be feared And likewise the rest Intelligimus omnes auaros cupidos intus in anima peccati lepra esse perfusos We vnderstād al couetous greedy persōs to be inwardly infected with the leprosie of sinne If the leprosie of the soule be a cause sufficient to remoue princes from their Seates what Prince shal keepe his kingdome or what Bishop his chaire Bee they not all sinners as well Bishops as Princes If you take vpon you the moderation of the matter that all sinnes shall not depriue them of their Crownes but onely heresie then you decide the case like a lord as you list and checke your owne conclusion as pernitious to Popes no lesse than to Princes and wee may iustly reiect it as a figure of your owne framing without probabilitie in the antecedent or necessitie in the consequent Phi. Note the cause why king Vzziah was smitten with the leprosie for presuming to execute the spiritual and Priestly function whereof now you make thē supreme Gouernours Theo. I note it well and when we defend that Princes may preach baptize forgiue sinnes or minister the Lords supper then threaten vs with Vzziahs pride and plague on Gods name In the
meane time learne that to beare the sworde is the Princes and not the Priests function and that the kings of Iudah which most vsed their temporall sword for the restoaring of trueth and purging of error wanne most fauour with God and honor with men as I shewed before in Dauid Iehosaphat Ezechias and Iosias Phi. To iudge of trueth is the Priests charge and that you referre to the Prince Theo. To know what must bee taught is the Pastours care to take heede what they beleeue or whom they follow God hath referred that to the hearers at their peril and more than that we giue no Prince Phi. The office and zeale of good Priests is notably recommended vnto vs in the deposition of the wicked Queene Athalia She to obtaine the Crowne after Ochasias killed all his children onely one which by a certaine good womans pietie was secretly withdrawen from the massacre saued and brought vppe within the Temple for seuen yeres space al which time the said Queene vsurped the kingdome till at length Ioida the high Priest by opportunitie called to him forces both of the Priestes and people proclaimed the right heire that was in his custodie annointed and crowned him king and caused immediatly the pretensed Queene notwithstanding shee cried Treason Treason as not onely iust possessors but wicked vsurpers vse to doe to bee slaine with her fautors at her owne Court gate Thus doe Priests deale and iudge for the innocent and lawfull Princes when tyme requireth much to their honour and agreeable to their holy calling Theo. Egernesse blindeth your vnderstanding when to prooue that a lawfull Prince may bee depriued of State and life which you seeke to defend you bring an example of a wicked woman vsurping the crowne and playing the tyrant that was suppressed and punished by the rightfull inheritour of the Scepter first proclaimed and Crowned by the consent of his whole Realme Phi. Ioida the high Priest commaunded her to bee slaine and not the king For he was a child of seuen yeeres age and had no such discretion Theo. Ioida had good warrant by the Lawes of God and man to do that hee did First hee saued the yong king aliue and hyding him from the furie of Athalia secretly nourced him in the house of God and in that respect might lawfully protect him and execute iustice for him Againe he was the Prince of his Tribe as wel as others were of their Tribes and therefore might take vpon him as much as any other of the Princes in the minoritie of the king to pacifie the Realme and punish the vsurper Thirdly his wife was the kinges aunt and himselfe the neerest allye that the king had and for that cause by the Lawe of nature and nations bound to see the Princes right age and innocencie defended Lastly that he did was by the common consent of al the Nobles and Captaines For the scripture sayth that before he ventered to proclaine king Ioash He caused the captaines the chiefe fathers of Israel to come vnto him into the house of the Lorde and made a couenant with them and tooke an othe of them in the house of the Lord and shewed them the kinges sonne So that Ioida had very good and sufficient authoritie without and besides his Priesthoode to doe that hee did which you dissemble and make a florish as if hee had done this only by vertue of his vocation which is most false Phi. No man can be ignorant howe stoutly Elias being sought to death by Achab and his Queene Iezabel that ouerthrewe holy Altars and murthered all the true religions that coulde bee founde in their lande tolde them to their face that not hee or other men of God whome they persecuted but they and their house were the disturbers of Israel And slewe in his zeale all the said Iezabels false Prophetes fostered at her Table euen foure hundred at one time and so set vppe holy Altars againe Howe hee handled the Idolatrous king Ochozias his Captaines and messengers wasting them and an hundred of their traine by fire from heauen till the third Captaine was forced to humble himselfe vppon his knees vnto him Howe hee had commission to annoint Hazael king of Syria Eliseus a Prophet for himselfe and Iehu king of Israel and so to put downe the sonne and whole house of Achab which thereby lost all the tytle and right to the kingdome for euer Theo. Elias zeale wee knowe and his stoue answere to Achab in saying I haue not troubled Israel but thou and thy fathers house in that yee haue forsaken the commandements of the Lord and thou hast followed Baalim Yet haue you but a colde sute of his stout speach For if Prophetes may reproue kings may they therefore depose them you bring your fiue wittes in question if you stand to this collection Phi. He slew in his zeale at one tyme foure hundred of Iezabels false Prophets fostered at her Table Theo. The famine which the land felt and the wonder which Elias did were the cause why king Achab deliuered the Prophetes of Baal into Elias handes to bee slaine by the people according to the Lawe of God Phi. Nay Elias slewe them Theo. Thinke you that Elias with his owne handes murdered so many Phi. The Scripture sayth Elias slue them interprete that howe you can Theo. I tooke Elias all this while for a Prophet and not for an executioner Phi. Though it were not his act to kill them it was his authoritie that they were killed Theo. His direction you might haue sayde but not his authoritie For Elias was a priuate man and no magistrate Phi. King Achab was farre enough from killing them had it not beene for Elias Theo. Elias might induce the king to doe it compell him hee coulde not Phi. Howe could Elias induce the King to doe that deede Theo. The famine was so great in Israel for lacke of raine that man and beast were ready to perish and raine they coulde haue none but at Elias woord as Elias had tolde the king before the drought beganne Meeting therefore with Achab and being chalenged by him as the author of this famine and troubler of Israel hee discharged himselfe and protessed before the King that GOD plagued the whole lande because hee and his fathers house had forsaken the commaundements of the Lorde followed other Gods And to iustifie his speach hee offered to prooue before all Israel on the daunger of his owne heade that the King and the lande were but seduced and abused by the Prophetes of Baal and that hee would proue by no woorse meanes than by miraculous fire from heauen which should shewe them whose sacrifice GOD accepted assuring them of raine abundant after their conuersion to the true GOD for which cause hee was at this tyme sent vnto them To this the king and the rest gaue their consents and when by the signe which Elias wrought
the Prophetes of Baal were conuicted to bee but false deceiuers and the whole assemblie fell on their faces and gaue the glorie to GOD and submitted themselues to followe his trueth Elias willed them to take Baals Prophetes and giue them the rewarde that deceiuers by Gods Lawe shoulde haue which was death Phi. This is your enlarging of the text Theo. The bookes of kinges are but short gatherings out of the larger Chronicles that were extant among the Iewes and the manner of the holy Ghost is briefly to touche the chiefest thinges and yet is there none of these partes but may bee plainely prooued by the circumstaunces of the text Phi. Howe prooue you the King consented Theo. The particular speach of no one is reported but the generall consent of the whole companie Where also the king was present is expressed and yet before the multitude was assembled the Kinges consent to Elias offer appeareth in that the king sent vnto all the children of Israel and gathered the Prophetes together for that purpose who woulde otherwise haue despised the message and woorde of Elias Againe the Prophetes of Baal woulde neuer haue ventered their liues vpon a needlesse miracle at Elias pleasure but the King and the whole Realme tied them to that condition vppon daunger else to reiect both them and their profession And lastly howe was it possible for one poore Prophet to catch and kill foure hundred and fiftie so that not a man of them escaped the king and the whole State standing with them Or howe was it lawfull for Elias to spill their bloud in the kinges presence without the kings consent Elias therefore made the motion which the king and the whole Realme there assembled did accept and ratifie with this answere It is well spoken and as hee should haue lost his life if hee had failed so when they fayled hee required iustice to bee done by the king and the Realme on them for that they were clearly conuicted to bee teachers of strange and false Gods Phi. Achab when he came home told Iezabel his wife how Elias had slaine all the Prophets with the sword Theo. Achab wee doubt not excused him selfe and cast the fault as much as hee coulde on Elias that Iezabels Prophets were slaine but this doth not shew that Achab did not consent His woords import that Elias was the procurer causer of their destruction but not the iudge nor officer that put them to death Phi. The Scripture sayth hee slew them Theo. So the Scripture sayth that Solomon buylt GOD an house thinke you therefore that Solomon was a Mason or Carpenter And Ioshua smote the fiue kinges of the Amorites and hanged them on fiue trees did Ioshua therefore play the hangman And king Roboam made shildes of brasse was Roboam therefore a brasse-smith Phi. No they commaunded or caused these thinges to bee done Theo. And so did Elias procure or cause them to bee slaine for in the Scripture the causer procurer and director are sayd to doe the deede though they bee but meanes and helpes to haue it done But what is this to the deposing of Princes Will you reason thus False Prophets may bee put to death my magistrates ergo Princes may bee deposed by priests I thinke you will not for very shame make such childish conclusions Phi. He himselfe slue king Ochasias his Captaines and messengers wasting them and an hundreth of their trayne by fire from heauen Theo. Elias was the speaker of the woorde but God was the doer of the deede and in that case God himselfe slue them and not Elias Phi. Hee called for fire from heauen Theo. Fire from heauen was not in Elias power but in Gods will Neither might Elias had he not been guyded by the speciall instinct of Gods Spirit haue presumed to call for that or any other kinde of reuenge from heauen for that is the manifest tempting of God as our Sauiour warned his Apostles when hee rebuked them for offering to imitate Elias and to call for fire from heauen as he did And sure it is as these thinges were not ordinarie so can you driue them to no conclusion for your purpose nor lay them forth for imitation to any no more than you may warrant men to steale because Israel robbed Egypt by Gods appointment or to perswade any to murder themselues because Samson did the like or teach them to curse kil children because Elizeus handled two and fourtie so that mocked him at Bethel And yet all this while you shew not that Elias so much as touched the king much lesse deposed him which you professe to proue Phi. Elias had commission to annoynt Hazael king of Syria and Iehu king of Israel and so to put downe the sonne and whole house of Achab which thereby lost all the tytle and right to the kingdome for euer Theo. Neither of them was annointed by Elias neither Hazael nor Iehu Elizeus only foretold Hazael that he should be king in Benhadads place His wordes were The Lord hath shewed me that thou shalt be king of Aram This Elizeus spake the day before Benhadad died and other annointing Hazael had none Iehu was indeed annointed by one of the Children of the Prophets whom Elizeus sent and charged by message from God to smite destroy the whole house of Achab his master and so he did For hee slew Ioram the King trod Iesabel vnder his horse feete and caused the seuentie sonnes of Achab that were nourced in Samaria to be slaine and slew all that remained of the house of Achab in Izrael and all that were great with him and his familiars and his Priests so that he let none of his remaine Phi. Then yet here was one king deposed Theo. Here was no king deposed by any Prophet but one slaine by Iehu to whom God gaue the Kingdome of Achab for this intent that he should roote out the whole house and offspring of Achab. Phi. Did Iehu well to kill his master and to take the kingdome from him and his heires Theo. Being expresly commanded thereto by God himselfe he did but his dutie For God may take and giue Kingdomes as hee will though man may not Phi. Authoritie so to doe Iehu receaued from Eliseus Theo. Unsay that for feare least you fal into a malicious and wicked vntruth The Prophet that annointed Iehu beganne his message with Thus saith the Lord God of Israel and not thus saith Elizeus Phi. But Elizeus sent him and gaue him instructions what to doe and what to say Theo. Let that bee so Then Elizeus taught him to doe this errand in Gods name and not in his own and consequently Iehu receiued authoritie from God and not from man Now view your argument God may giue kingdomes to whom he will and appoint the subiect to be the reuenger of his masters sinne ergo the Pope may do the like Be you not
the right members of Antichrist when you make such reasons to flatter the Bishop of Rome Phi. The Scripture saith of Elias He cast downe Kings destroied them and plucked the honorable from their Seates and of Eliseus in the same place he neuer feared Prince nor could be ouercome by any Theo. If the Scripture will not serue your turnes you wil make it I perceaue by one meanes or other The wordes as they lie in the Greeke are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hee brought Kinges to destruction and the mightie from their beddes you to help the matter put in termes of your owne and say he cast downe Kings destroied them and plucked them from their Seats as if Elias had beene some Iustie swash-buckler to plucke them out by the eares and not a zealous and sincere Prophet to denounce the will of God vnto them with the perill of his owne life for the which he is commended And so of Elizeus the wise man saith He was shaken that is driuen from the doing of his dutie or afearde to doe that which God willed him for any ruler These and such like praises if you take them as in Prophets and Preachers they may and ought to be taken which is not to shrinke from declaring the will of God for any Prince to aduertise them as well as others of the danger and destruction that hangeth ouer their heads they be great vertues and shined in Elias and Eliseus very brightly But if you aggrauate words to persuade men that Elias or Eliseus did depose princes as superiour iudges or layd violent hands on them to pul them from their thrones you make them Rebellious disturbers of states which was farre from them and not religious seruants to God as in deede they were Phi. By these examples of holy Scriptures we see first that annointed and lawfully created Kings may be deposed secondly for what causes they were depriued thirdly that as in the creation and consecration of Kings so also in their depriuation God vsed the ministerie of Priests and Prophets as either ordinarie or extraordinarie Iudges or executors of his wil towards them Theo. Your examples haue beene throughly considered and howsoeuer you correct and qualifie your conclusion the precedents no way fitte your purpose That annointed and lawfully created Kings may be chased from the gouernment the example of Iehu will iustifie if you adde these two prouisoes that the warrant be special from Gods own mouth the fact be done by the Magistrate whom God hath authorized to take the sword for so doth Iehues example require the rest intend no such thing The Princes which you name were either not deposed or not lawfully created Saul was presently reiected from Gods fauour and spirit from the possession of the Kingdome hee was not but only cutte off from the succession Ieroboam was sorely threatned and Vzziah sharply punished but yet neither of them deposed Achab was twise rebuked by Elias but not depriued And Athalia whom the hie-Priest in the young Kings name commaunded to bee slaine vsurped and was neuer lawfully created The causes for which they were depriued wee neede not dispute of vnlesse you first shew that they were depriued Athalia was slaine neither for Apostasie nor heresie but for vsurping the Crowne against the right heire Vzziahs actes were commended but his pride detested by God Ioram was of no worse religion than Achab his Father and others before him and after him which yet were not deposed But God reuenged on him the whordomes and witchcraftes of his mother Iesabel which hee suffered and the bloud of all his seruantes the Prophets which hee spilt in the raigne both of Achab and Ioram That cause the Prophet vttered to Iehu and Iehu to Ioram when hee slew by Israel And this plague vppon Achabs wife and house Elias threatned after the killing of Naboth Phi. Was not Ioram an Idolater Theo. Yeas that encreased his sinne but it was not the cause that he lost his kingdome Your third obseruation halteth downe right and doubleth so many times either and or that in effect you resolue nothing You say God vsed the ministerie of Priests and Prophets in the depriuation of Kings He vsed their mouthes to foretell and declare the plagues that he would send on Princes and sometimes their hands to annoint such as he would haue succeede But he vsed them neither as ordinarie nor extraordinarie Iudges nor executors to depose Princes Messengers they were to deliuer by worde of mouth that which God had determined to such as did or shoulde inherite the kingdome other execution or authoritie to depriue Princes they had none And this is farre from that which you claime for the Pope whome you make the superuisour of Princes and an ordinarie Iudge to compell them and displace them if hee see cause Phi. For so much as these Princes helde their dignities and Soueraigne authorities of God and were bound to occupie and vse the same with what forces soeuer they had to the aduauncement of his Religion and to the true worshippe and honour of their supreme Lord and Master as also to the beneâ—ite and preseruation of his people in fayth and feare of him the Priestes and Prophetes that then had the principall and direct charge of mens soules and Religion and were in spirituall matters superiours to their owne Princes rightly opposed themselues in all such actions as tended to the dishonour of GOD destruction of Religion and to the notorious domage of the soules of them ouer whome they did raigne and in the behalfe of GOD executed iustice vpon such as contrarie to their obligation and first institution abused their soueraigne power to the destruction of true religion and aduauncement of Idolatrie Heresie or such like abhomination Theo. Neuer giue vs a reason why Princes may bee deposed by Priests and Prophets so long as the fact it selfe is in doubt not yet proued to be lawful That kings holde their soueraigne authorities of God and are bound to vse the same to the aduauncement of his true worship and honour as also to the preseruation of his people in the faith and feare of him this is a point alwayes vrged by vs and lately confessed by you before you were ware for you were wont to tell vs that Princes might not meddle with spirituall things or causes and now you professe that Princes are bound to vse their authorities and forces whatsoeuer to the aduauncement of Gods religion and to the true worship and honour of God and preseruation of his people in the fayth and feare of him This then is a sound and an euident trueth alleaged by vs and allowed by you But when you grow from this to conclude that if Princes vse not their swordes and forces as they shoulde and are bounde Priestes may take their dignities and authorities from them you put Iron feete to a golden head and thinke the metals wil agree But
a Prince you shall neuer shewe Omitte Abimelech whom Saul slewe for fauouring Dauid and Zachariah whom king Ioash commaunded to bee stoned not remembring the kindnes of Ioida his father that saued him aliue and set him in his kingdome Did not Salomon cast out Abiathar from being high Priest because hee tooke part with Adoniah his elder brother Where by your conclusion Salomon shoulde haue beene deposed because the high Priest thought Adoniahs right to the Crowne to bee better than Salomons Wee shewe you where the Prince remoued the Priest from his honour and primacie but you can not shewe vs that euer Priest remooued Prince in that Common wealth from his royal dignitie and yet was there then as vrgent and as euident cause to do it as you can nowe or doe pretend For all the kings of Israel were open Idolaters Iehu himselfe not excepted and yet not one of them deposed by Priest or Prophet so long as their kingdome stoode which was 253. yeeres The greater part of the kinges of Iudah euen foureteene of them were likewise plaine Idolaters as Salomon Roboam Abiam Ioram Ahaziah Ioash Amazias Ahaz Manasses Amon Ioachaz Eliakim Ioacim Zedechias and not a Priest or Prophete in Iudah so much as offered to displace or resist one of them If by Gods Lawe as you suppose the Priestes were superiour Iudges to punish such offences euen in princes howe can you excuse the high Priest and the rest to whom that charge was committed for not executing that power which God gaue them vpon these wicked and Idolatrous Princes Phi. The kinges were too mightie for them to remoue Theo. That happilie might hinder the effect but not the attempt of their iudgement We doe not obiect that they were vnable but that they neuer made the onset or offer to doe it Phi. The crueltie of those kinges caused them to forbeare Theo. That is not true Many Priests and Prophetes gaue their liues for reproouing them and more it coulde not cost to depose them Againe Manasses was caried captiue out of his Realme in the midst of his furious Idolatrie and yet in his absence and miserie no man stirred against him but his kingdome was reserued for him till hee was released out of prison and sent backe from Babylon It was therefore not for feare of death but for regard of duetie that the zealous Priests and Prophetes submitted their persons to those wicked Princes whose Idolatrie they reproued with the losse of their liues Phi. This coâ—dition was afterwarde to bee imâ—lied in the receiuing of any king ouer the people of God and true beleeuers for euer videlicet that they should not reduce their people by force or otherwise from the faith of their forefathers and the religion and holy ceremonies thereof receiued at the hands of Gods Priests and none other Insinuating that obseâ—uing these precepts and conditions hee and his sonne after him might long reigne Otherwise as by the practise of their deposition in the bookes and tyme of the kinges it afterward â—ppeareth whereof we haue set downe some examples before the Prophets and Pristes that annointed them of no other condition but to keepe and maintaine the honour of God and his worshippe depriued them againe when they brake with their Lorde and fell to straunge Gods and forced their people to doe the like Theo. God would haue the more care to be taken in choosing a king because it was too late to refuse him when he was once chosen But I trust your selfe will not say that all those conditions which God requireth in a king are forfeitures of his Crowne if he transgresse in any of them GOD in expresse woordes and in the very same place chargeth that the king shall not haue many wiues nor many horses nor abundaunce of golde nor siluer nor lift his heart vp aboue his brethren and thinke you that if a king did offend in any of these he was to bee deposed The precept which your selfe alleage doth not onely concerne the publike sufferance of true religion but the perfect obseruance of euery point that was contained in the lawe of God Hee shall read in the booke of the Lawe all the dayes of his life that hee may learne to feare the Lorde his God and to obserue all the woordes of this Lawe and these statutes to doe them And trowe you the breach of any point of Gods Lawe was depriuation to the king You must bee voyde of all sense if you defend these thinges and yet these bee conditions or as you delight to call them couenants which God exacteth in him that shall bee king ouer his elect and peculiar people The knitting vppe of your matter is like the rest of your discourse The Prophetes and Priestes you say that annointed them of no other coâ—dition but to keepe and maintaine the honour of God and his true worshippe depriued them againe when they brake with their Lorde and fell to straunge Gods and forced their people to doe the like It is vtterly vntrue that euer Priest or Prophete deposed Prince in the common wealthes of Israel or Iudah There were as the Scripture testifieth of the kinges of Israel nineteene and fourteene of the kinges of Iuda that brake with their Lorde and sell to straunge Gods and forced their people to doe the like Shewe that one of them was depriued by any Priest or Prophete and take the whole if you can not leaue false supposing and vaine craking and tell on your tale Phi. And this it was in the old law But now in the new Testament and in the time of Christs spirituall kingdome in the Church Priests haue much more soueraigne authoritie and Princes farre more strict charge to obay loue and cherish the Church Theo. What was in the olde Lawe you haue sayd and wee haue seene and except I bee deceiued you found there very litle for your purpose In the newe Testament I can assure you you will find lesse Where you say that Priests now in the Church haue much more soueraigne authoritie than Priests had in the law of Moses the comparing of their authorities is very superfluous Haue they more or lesse it is nothing to this question Authoritie to depose Princes they neither then had nor nowe haue which is it that you seeke for In what sort Princes are bound to loue cherish and obey the Church was declared before and neede not nowe bee repeated But the Church is neither charged nor licenced by Christ to take Princes Crownes from them Subiection is rather enioyned her in earthly thinges vnto Princes which can not stand with your thrusting them from their thrones vnlesse you take rebellion to be subiection which were very strange And depriuing them of their right is worse than rebelling against theÌ„ to defend your right which yet is not tolerable For he that resisteth them shall receiue iudgement Phi. In the Church without fayle is the supereminent power of Christes
Priesthoode who with his Iron rodde bruseth the pride of Princes that rebell against his Spouse and kingdome in earth like a potters poâ—shard and hath right in his Church ouer all kingdomes to plant and plucke vp to buyld and destroy afore whom al kings shall fall downe and all Nations do him seruice Theo. That the Sonne of God will bruse the pride of those Princes with an Iron rodde which rebell against his Spouse and kingdome in earth like a potters shard and that he hath right both within and without his Church ouer all kingdomes to plant and plucke vp to buyld and destroy afore whom all kings on earth and Angels in heauen shall fall downe and doe him seruice these thinges are vndoubted with vs and brought in by you but onely for a windlace to make the reader cast his eyes on Christ and his kingdome while you closely conuey the Princes Scepter vnder the Popes feete Accursed bee hee that doeth not confesse the supereminent power which the Sonne of God hath ouer all kingdomes ouer all creatures ouer the States and liues bodies and soules of all men Wil you thence inferre the Pope hath the like In sooth masters you must make hard shift before these reasons will bee good Phi. Christs Priestly prerogatiue passing his owne regall dignitie much more excelling all other humane power of the worlde in most ample and exact termes is coÌ„municated to the chiefe Priest and Pastor of our soules and secondarily to the rest of the gouernours of the Church in other manner of clauses than any earthly Princes can shewe for their pretensed spirituall regiment Fie on that secular pride wilfull blind heresie so repugning against Gods expresse ordinaunce and yet is of wicked Sect-masters and flatterers vpholden to the eternall calamitie of themselues and of millions of others Theo. This is stale Rhetorike to come with an outcrie when you should make your conclusion Conclude first and rayle after otherwise you shewe your selues to trust more to the slippernes of your tongues than to the soundnes of your cause Phi. Our illation is euident Christ as a Priest bruseth the pride of Princes with his Iron rodde and hath right ouer all kingdomes to plant and plucke vppe buyld and destroy But Christs Priestly prerogatiue in most ample and exact termes is communicated to the chiefe Priest and Pastor of our soules The chiefe Pastor therefore hath the like right ouer all kingdomes to plant plucke vp buyld and destroy Theo. The power which you mention in your first proposition is attributed to Christ not as a Priest but as a king The wordes of the Psalme are very plaine to that end I haue set my king vpon my holy hill of Sion Aske of mee and I will giue thee the heathen for thine inheritaunce and the endes of the earth for a possession to thee Thou shalt crush them with a scepter of Iron and breake them in pieces like a potters vessell S. Iohn applieth the same place to the royal and not to the Priestly power of Christ. I saw the heauen open and beholde a white horse and hee that sate vpon him was called faithful and true and hee iudgeth and fighteth in righteousnes On his head were many Crownes and out of his mouth went a sharpe sword that with it he should smite the heathen and hee shal rule them with a rod of Iron And hee hath on his garment and on his thigh a name written the King of Kings and Lord of Lordes Howe thinke you His horse his Crowne his robe his traine his sworde his stile described in this place expresse they his Priestly or Princely prerogatiue As a Priest hee sacrificed himselfe on the crosse and had his owne blood shed for the remission of sinnes As a King hee subdueth his enemies and maketh them like dust vnder his feete bee they Princes or others Your Maior is therefore false that to bruse kings with an Iron rod and to breake them in pieces like a potters shard is a priuilege of Christs Priesthoode and not of his Princehoode Your Minor that Christs Priestly prerogatiue is communicated in most ample exact termes to the chiefe Priest and Pastor of the Church hath farre lesse trueth in it than your Maior For al the prerogatiue of Christs Priesthood is not communicated to any other Such an high Priest saith S. Paul it became vs to haue which shoulde be holy vndefiled separated from sinners made higher than the heauens who in the end of the world appeared once to put away sinne by the offering vp of himselfe and after that one sacrifice for sinne is set down for euer at the right hand of God hauing obtained eternal redeÌ„ption for vs and being able perfectly to saue them that come to God by him seeing he euer lyueth to make intercession for them These and many such prerogatiues of his Priesthood I hope you will not empart to the Pope lest wee crie fie on your blasphemous hearts and mouthes which set the man of sinne equall with the sonne of God If you restraine your Minor by confessing that not all but some of the prerogatiues of Christes Priesthoode are communicated to others then your conclusion hath no force both your premisses being meere particulars For though Christ gaue some part of his power honour to his Apostles yet this hee gaue not and therefore his gift to them can doe you no good vnlesse you prooue that hee gaue them this prerogatiue amongst the rest which he bestowed on them Phi. Hee sayd to Peter and his successours Whatsoeuer thou bindest on earth shall be bound in heauen and whatsoeuer thou losest in earth shall bee loosed in heauen Can you require a more ample graunt Theo. Peter and the rest were to bind and lose the sinnes and soules of men by the woord and sacraments not the Scepters and swords of Princes And so Christ himselfe expoundeth his graunt vnto them Whose sinnes soeuer you remit they are remitted vnto them and whose sinnes soeuer yee retaine they are retayned And in this place you leaue out the first part of the graunt which should direct the whole I will giue thee the keyes of the kingdome of heauen not of the kingdomes on earth Bernard though he were but of late yeeres yet was he not afraid to tel Pope Eugenius ergo in criminibus non in possessionibus potestas vestra quoniam propter illa non propter has accepistis claues regni caelorum Your power concerneth sinnes and not possessions because yee receiued the keyes of the kingdome of heauen for those thinges and not for these And so Theophilact Vnderstand the keyes which bind and lose to bee the pardoning or punishing of sinnes And so S. Ambrose The right of the holy Ghost consisteth in bynding and losing of sinnes As also Saint Augustine The keyes Christ gaue to his Church that what she loosed in earth should be
loosed in heauen and what she did bind in earth shoulde bee bound in heauen to witte that whosoeuer would not beleeue his sinnes might bee forgiuen in the Church should not haue them forgiuen and whosoeuer would beleeue it and depart from his sinnes by amending his life in the bosome of the same Church shoulde by that faith and conuersion be healed And neuer writer since Christs time did euer extend the power of the keyes vnto any thing saue vnto the forgiuing and retayning of sinnes Phi. No more doe wee this onely we adde that when Princes are bounde in earth for their sinnes they loose that interest which they had in their kingdomes Theo. That position you vndertooke to proue by the holy Scriptures but as yet you be wide you still suppose it and doe not proue it Phi. Now in the newe Testament all Christes sheepe without exception bee they Princes be they poore if they be Christian men are put to Peters feeding gouernement Now the keyes of heauen be deliuered to Christs Vicar in earth to let in to locke out to bind to loose to punish to pardon Now we be coÌ„manded euery one be we kings be we Caesars to obey our Prelats and Pastors and to bee subiect to them as to those that must make accompt to God for our soules wherein what Christian Prince may except himselfe Theo. You role from text to text abusing the woordes and peruerting the sense as you goe and when all is saide you bee euen as neere as you were at first before you began For what if al these places do concerne Princes as well as others wil you thence inferre that princes may be deposed Then these must be your argumentes Princes must bee taught ergo Princes may bee deposed Prieâ—tes may exclude them from the kingdom of heauen ergo likewise from their kingdomes on earth Princes must obey sounde doctrine comming from their Pastours mouthes ergo if they refuse they may be deposed Surely such reasons set not them besides their seates but you rather besides your wittes for what apparance of trueth haue these ridiculous and impious mockeries Feede my sheepe that is depose Princes I will giue thee the keyes of the kingdom of heauen that is I will giue thee the thrones of earthly kinges Be aduised by your leaders and yeeld to their good perswasions for they watch ouer your soules that is obey the Pope when he thrusteth you from your goods landes and liues Had you but one dramme of shame or sense in you you woulde neuer sende vs such sottish and vnsauorie sequeles Phi. They be of your framing we sent them not Theo. We annexe the conclusion which you must and would infer to the places which you alleadge and in so doing we can not abuse you Out of the 21. of S. Iohn what woulde you cite but this charge to Peter feed my sheepe In the 16. of S. Matthew what finde you there but the promise of our Sauiour I wil giue thee the keies of the kingdom of heaueÌ„ whatsoeuer thou bindest or losest in earth shal be bound and losed in heauen All the wordes which the 13. to the Hebrewes hath for your purpose are 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 yâ— is be perswaded by their words and giue place to their admonitions which watch ouer your soules Nowe what your conclusion is and must be neither can any man doubt nor do your selues dissemble For the fift chapter of your immodest and vntrue defence of English Catholikes as you call them proposeth purposely handleth the depriuation of Princes for heresie and falling from the faith So that helpe the matter how you can with your glozes and phrases these be your antecedeÌ„ts and this is your consequent Phi. Well if Peter must feede Princes why may not Peter depose Princes Theo. Taking their Crownes from them is not preaching the Gospell vnto them which Christ ment by feeding Phi. But Peter may correct them as well as feede them and depriuation is but correction Theo. Any Pastor may reproue them if they withstand the trueth that bindeth them in earth shutteth heauen against them But other correction on the goodes landes or bodies of priuate men preachers may not exercise much lesse intermeddle with the Seates and Scepters of Princes Phi. Be we kinges be we Caesars we are commaunded to obey our Prelates and Pastours and to be subiect to them Theo. Princes and all other christians must be reuerent and obedient to the word and Sacramentes which God hath put in the mouthes and handes of his messengers other subiection to Prelates or Pastors is none due Phi. And if they refuse to be subiect to the word or Sacramentes shall not Pastors punish them though they be Princes Theo. Let them sinke in their sinnes and leaue them to God that is punishment enough Phi. Shal they goe no farther Theo. Externall or corporall meanes by losse of life landes or goodes God hath not allowed any Pastour to compell or punish his sheepe withall Phi. Then may Princes freely despise both the word and the Preacher Theo. If you call that freedome to fall into the handes of the liuing God which S. Paul saith is a fearefull thing Whosoeuer shall not receiue you nor heare your wordes when you depart out of that house or that citie shake off the dust of your feete Truely I say vnto you it shall bee easier for them of the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of iudgement than for that citie Is not this reuenge sufficient for Princes that turne from the truth vnlesse you also must be fingering of their crownes and treadding on their necks Phi. That would terrifie them more than the threatning of helfire Theo. It may be that contenteth your appetites better but God hath reserued the punishment of Princes to himselfe and not assigned it ouer vnto you Howbeit why doe you wander thus from the question You should proue by the worde of God that Princes may be deposed Why then doe you linger and make so many profers before you come to your purpose Phi. Will you haue a plaine proofe out of the new Testament that Princes may be deposed Theo. That is it wee looked for all this while Phi. Pastours haue full authoritie to forbid vs the companie of heretikes blasphemers and idolaters and such like and not so much as to salute them much more not to obey them Theo. Is this your best discretion We must not be companions with idolaters ergo we must not be subiects to Princes Phi. If they be conuicted of heresie or idolatrie Theo. Put you no difference betwixt familiars and subiectes Phi. If we may not be familiar with them much lesse subiect vnder them Theo. Are you not low drawen when you come with such dregges Phi. Iest not at it but answere it Theo. Be earnest in any case It is a very profound and substantiall reason Phi. Substantial or
to them at their cōming to Rome yet the attempt was so strange that Otho Frisingensis saith See the kingdome decreasing and the Church aspiring to that authoritie that she will iudge kings The famous and as you say maiesticall excommunication of Arcadius and Eudoxia by Innocentius well neere 1200. yeres agoe is a ridiculous and peeuish corruption deuised by some practiser at Rome and embraced ouer greedily by Nicephorus and other later Grecians in fauour of Chrysostome Which insolent fansie wide from the matter we striue for and full of forgerie because it is refuted before I may well ouerskippe If it were true as it is apparently false it remoueth Princes from the Sacraments but not from their Scepters Thus of seuen examples pretended that Princes were excōmunicated in the auncient times of the Church only one is duely proued and no mo within 860. yeres after Christ that not by the Bishop of Rome but by S. Ambrose Bishop of Millan The rest are either enforced against the stories of the Church or boldly presumed by you besides the stories And yet were they all prooued and confessed they make nothing for your purpose The question is not whether bishops shall receiue kinges with open and obstinate vices to the Lordes table but whether they may chase them from their kingdomes or no. We mislike not repentance in Princes but resistance in subiects bind their sinnes as fast as you can but pul them not downe from their Seates And yet least you should thinke that Princes then had no faultes or that learned and godly Bishops did in those dayes forbeare to excommunicate Princes rather for feare or flatterie than for any Religion or duetie marke what care S. Augustine will haue obserued howe and when discipline shoulde bee vsed If contagion of sinne haue inuaded a multitude the mercifull seueritie of correction from God himselfe is necessarie nam consilia separationis inania sunt perniciosa atque sacrilega quia impia superba fiunt plus perturbant infirmos bonos quà m corrigant animosos malos For then the attempt to excommunicate is frustrate and pernicious yea sacrilegious because it becommeth both impious and arrogant and more troubleth the good that be weake than correcteth the euill that be carelesse Neither was this the iudgement of S. Augustine alone but the generall wisedome of Christes church as himselfe professeth when he entereth into this question In hac velut angustia quaestionis non aliquid nouum aut insolitum dicam sed quod sanitas obseruat ecclesiae vt cum quisque fratrum id est Christianorum intus in ecclesiae societate constitutorum in aliquo tali peccato fuerit deprehensus vt anathemate dignus habeatur fiat hoc vbi periculum schismatis nullum est atque id cum ea dilectione de qua ipse alibi praecepit dicens vt inimicum non eum existimetis sed corripite vt fratrew Non enim estis ad eradicandum sed ad corrigendum In the straitnes of this question I will say nothing that is newe or vnwonted but that which the soundnes of the church obserueth that when any of our brethren I meane Christians within the Church is deprehended in any such fault that hee deserueth excommunication let that be done where there is no daunger of any schisme and with such loue as the Apostle commanded saying Esteeme him not as an enemie but rebuke him as a brother For you are not to roote vp but to amend And to this ende S. Augustine largely disputeth throughout that chapter shewing that excommunication is not to be vsed where a schisme is iustly feared It can not bee an healthful reproouing by many but when hee that is reproued hath no number to take his part But if the same disease hath possessed many the good haue nothing left for them to do but to sorrowe and mourne And therefore the same Apostle finding many defiled with fornication and vncleannes in his seconde epistle to the same Corinthians doeth not commaund them not to eate meate with such Hee that calleth excommunication a proude pernicious and sacrilegious attempt where any number is linked together that a schisme may follow what would he haue sayd to you that excommunicate Princes and whole Realmes whence not onely daungerous schismes but also cruell persecutions easily may commonly doe arise Againe the ende of excommunication which Saint Paul toucheth and the meane which he prescribeth do cease in Princes If any man obey not our sayings haue no cōpanie with him that hee may be ashamed Now the princes companie the subiects may not flie both in respect of the necessitie that al men haue to deale with the magistrate duetie that must be yeelded to the Princes person and preceptes And how should the people make their Prince ashamed whom by Gods Law they must honour and obey in all thinges and by whom they must iustly bee punished if they offer default in any thing And this the church of God wisely considering neuer vrged any Subiectes to dishonour their Princes neither did Sainct Ambrose separate Theodosius from the companie of men but hee charged him in Gods name to refraine the church and Sacramentes vntill hee appeased the wrath of God by repentaunce Hee charged not the people to disgrace or shunne their Prince but he burdened the Princes owne conscience knowing full well his religious disposition and offering his life into the Princes handes if he misliked the fact Your selues prouide for this mischiefe but as your maner is by wicked craftie dissembling not by christian and sober forbearing the thing which you should not aduenture The Pope who is farre enough off and free from al hazardes hee must first pronounce the sentence you will stande by and watch your time when you may safely without losse of life or goods put his sentence in execution till that pinch come you may sweare and stare you bee louing and obedient Subiects but then in any case you must shew your selues or else you be accursed for euer Toledo teacheth you that if there be danger of life or goods you may finely iuggle with excommunicate Princes and serue thē and honour them with al circumstances till you be strong enough to take their Crownes from their heades in spite of their heartes and then you must spare them no longer and so much the dispensation which Campion and Parsons obtayned of his holinesse when they came into this Realme importeth Phi. Woulde you that men shoulde communicate with hereticall Princes Theo. Condemne their errours but praie for their persons for so the Apostle willeth you I exhort you therefore that first of all supplications prayers and intercessions bee made for kinges and for al that are in authoritie when kinges were Infidels and Idolaters So God commaunded his people whē they were caried to Babylon Seek the prosperitie of the citie whether I haue caused you to bee caried awaie
a Marginall note Phi. There is no warre in the world so iust or honorable be it ciuill or forraigne as that which is waged for religion we say for the true auncient Catholike Romane religion which by the lawes of holy church and all christian Nations is adiudged to bee the only true worship of God and vnto the obedience of which all Princes people haue yeelded themselues either by oth vow or sacramentes or euerie of these waies For this it is goodly and honorable to fight in such order and times as wee bee warranted in conscience and law by our supreme Pastours and Priestes and not for wild condemned heresies against most lawfull christian catholikes kinges Priests as the rebellious Protestantes and Caluinistes of this time doe without all order law or warrant of God or man As the armes taken for defence of godlie honour and inheritāce in such sort difference from heretical tumults as is said are so much more commendable and glorious for that no crime in the world deserueth more sharpe and zealous pursuite of extreme reuenge whether it be in superiours or subiects than reuolting from the faith to strange religions Theo. Bee you not maruelous sharpe and sounde disputers which alwaies proue that you neede not and euer inferre that you should not Phi. Wee proue directly that which wee vndertooke Theo. What vndertooke you Phi. That Princes might be depriued Theo. By sentence meane you or by violence Phi. By sentence if that will serue but if they yeelde not thereto then by violence Theo. Your iudiciall power to giue sentence of depriuation against them you would faine haue established by the Scriptures and examples of the Primatiue church howe short you came of that reckoning I leaue the wise to consider You proceede nowe to the violent expelling them from their Princely seates wherein it is a world to see how idlely you hunt about or rather purposely pursue the wrong foote because in the right you finde no reliefe Warre for the Catholike Religion is both lawfull and honorable you saie you must adde of the subiectes against their Prince or else you range cleane besides our question Wee striue not what causes may leade christian Princes to make warre on their neighbors but whether it be lawfull or tolerable for the subiect to beare armes against his naturall and absolute Prince You proue which is nothing to your purpose that princes haue waged warres for religion when you come to make your conclusion you secretly conuey this vnder hand which is most in doubtt betwixt vs and in generall termes you proclaime that warres for religion are iust and honorable But Sir in this interprise the person must be respected as well as the cause Be the cause neuer so iust if the person be not authorized by God to draw the sworde they bee no iust nor lawfull warres but barbarous and theenish vprores For say your selfe when malefactours deserue to die may priuate men put them to death without the Magistrate Phi. No. Theo. And if they do be they not murderers though the crime which they reuenge be worthy of death Phi. They bee Theo. Then if in priuate punishmentes men may not presume without his authoritie that beareth the sworde much lesse may they venter on open warres which are wilfull and furious executions by plaine force without all order of iustice vnlesse they be directly warranted by him that hath the sword from God to take vengeance of the wicked Phi. We be warranted in conscience and law Theo. Wee talke nowe of your conclusion not of your commission If Princes who beare the sword may lawfully wage warre for religion is it consequent I aske you that priuate men which haue not the sword may doe the same Phi. Priuate men may not beare armes without authoritie Theo. And if they doe bee they not plaine theeues and murtherers Phi. If they be not warranted to fight Theo. To rifle and slea one is theft and murther by the lawes of God and man what then are they that spoile Realmes and kill thowsandes with armed violence but grand theeues and murtherers Phi. If they be not lawfully authorized thereto they be no better than robbers and slaughterers Theo. Then Princes may mage warre if the cause bee good because God hath giuen them the sworde to maintaine iustice and if that bee refused to offer force both at home and abroade priuate persons may not doe the like bee the cause neuer so iust for so much as they bee not licenced by God to beare or vse the sword Phi. I tolde you before that we bee warranted Theo. So had you neede Your warres else for religion bee no lawfull iust armes but desperate and wicked tumults But by whom are you warranted Phi. By our supreme Pastors and Priestes Theo. Doe Pastours and Priestes beare the sworde Phi. I say not so but they warrant vs to take the sworde Theo. Can they warrant you to take the sword that haue no autoritie to beare the sword Phi. They be superiour iudges to these that beare the sworde Theo. What In temporall causes Phi. No but in spirituall Theo. Fighting and killing are martiall not spirituall affaires Phi. Yet to be directed by spiritual Pastors Theo. We striue not for directing but for authorizing of armes Preachers may be consulted whether the quarrell be iust but onely the Magistrate that hath from heauen supreme power of goods lands life and death can warrant the subiect to vse the sword Phi. The cause maketh the warre lawfull or otherwise It is godly and honorable to fight for religion we say for the true ancient catholike Romane religion in such order and time as we be warranted in conscience and lawe by our supreme Pastours Priestes and not for vile condemned heresies against most lawfull christian catholike kinges and Priestes as the rebellious Protestants and Caluinistes of this time do without all order law warrant of God or man Theo. If Nabals sheepe be not all shorne I dare warrant you better intertainement there than euer Dauid had Spoiles massacres conspiracies and treasons euen to the destruction and murther of Princes by their own seruāts if a Priest say the word you count in your selues to be iust honorable and godlie warres If others doe but stand on their gard to keepe their liues and families from the bloodie rage of their enimies seeking to put whole townes and Prouinces of them to the sworde against all lawe and reason and to disturbe the kingdomes in the minoritie of the right Gouernours or if they defend their ancient and christian liberties couenanted and agreed on by those Princes to whō they first submitted themselues and euer since confirmed and allowed by the kinges that haue succeeded If in either of these two cases the godly require their right and offer no wrong impugne not their Princes but onely saue their owne liues you crie rebellious heretikes rebellious
to come from God and not from man If you saie that Abia sought not for the kingdome but for Religion though his owne wordes sound to the contrarie knowe you that as Ieroboam was starke naught so Abia for all his crakes and your praises was little better The holie Ghost whose report wee must beleeue before yours saieth that hee walked in all the sinnes of his Father which hee had doone before him and that his heart was not right with the Lorde his God And the sinnes of his Father are thus described in the Scripture Iudah wrought wickednesse in the sight of the Lorde and they prouoked him more with their sinnes which they committed than all that which their Fathers had doone For they also made them high places and images and groues on euerie high hill and vnder euerie greene tree There were also Sodomites in the Land that did according to all the abominations of the people which the Lord had cast out before the children of Israel This was in the time of Roboam Abia walked in al his waies and therefore lacked not much of Ieroboans wickednesse though you make him a victorious religious conquerour That Edom and Libuah reuolted from king Ioram is verie true but that their reuolt was either lawfull or for religion that you proue not Edom had no such respect they were prophane persons and Infidels and as soone as they sawe their time they cast off the yoke which the kinges of Iudah had laide vpon them But not long after in the raigne of Amaziah they were meetely wel plagued by the king of Iudah for their reuolting he smiting tenne thowsand of them with the sworde and taking other tenne thowsand aliue and casting them down from the top of a rocke that they burst al to peeces thereby to giue them a iust recompence for their former rebellion The Scripture saith that Libuah a citie of the Priests as appeareth by the first allotment made in the 21. of the booke of Ioshua rebelled at the same time but it commendeth their rebellion no more than it doeth the rebellion of Edom. It will be as hard for you to proue either of them did well as that your selues may do the like Leude deedes are reported in the Scripture as will as good but not commended No more are these Phi. The text saith they did it because the king of Iudah had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers Theo. The Scripture doth not set down the cause why they might lawfully doe it but addeth this as a reason why God suffered these troubles to fall on king Ioram As if it should haue said no maruell to see these rebell against him for he had forsaken the God of his fathers And if this were a fault in king Ioram to forsake the God of his fathers as in truth it was how can the priests of Libuah be excused for seuering themselues from the line of Dauid without warrant from God that which was worse from the temple seruice of God established by expresse commandement at Ierusalem If that be true which you say that Libuah could neuer be recouered again to the kingdom of Iudah your selfe conuince them of a pestileÌ„t wicked reuolt For though they might pretend religion against king Ioram yet against the godly kings of Iudah which followed as Ezechiaâ— Iosias others they could pretend none therfore by your own confession it was no defection from Iorams idolatrie but a plaine rebellion against the kingdom of Iudah an vtter renouncing the Altar Temple seruice of God at IerusaleÌ„ Which how it might stand with their duties to God his law we yet conceiue not neither wil you euer be able to iustifie that fact of theirs with all your cunning and eloquence The ten tribes assembled to sight with Ruben Gad for building an Altar by Iordan against the commandement of God and therein they did but their duties If you aske by what authority they did it the answere is easie Their commonwealth coÌ„sisting of 12. tribes al indued with like soueraignty ten might lawfully represse two without any farther warraÌ„t as after they did the Beniamits for that filthy fact of the men of Gibeah But yet at this time Ioshua liued whom God himselfe had appointed captaine ruler of the 12. tribes therfore besides that authority which the whole had ouer a part that in common regimeÌ„t is sufficeÌ„t there was a superior magistrate at the denouÌ„cing of these wars and though they had fought togither as equals yet will not that example ratiâ—ie the rebelling of subiectes against their Princes which is your purpose Phi. Since Christs law religion was establâ—shed diuerse great honorable fights haue bin made for the faith against princes and prouinces that vniustly withstood and annoied the same Theo. What warres haue bin for religion since the comming of Christ if you meane between Prince Prince Realme Realme is bootles for you to seeke needlesse for vs to answere We dispute not what causes may iustly be pursued with battel but what what persons are permitted to take the sword against whom And vnto the time of Gregory the 1. which compasse you take to bring vs some presidents of your doings you can not shew that euer christian subiects did beare armes against their Princes for any quarrell of regilion were allowed Rebellions were rife in those ages as well as now but we deny that the Church of Christ or the godly Bishops of those times did euer consent allow or like those tumults much lesse procure them or vse them for the safegard of their Sees as you beare men in hand they did Phi. In old times of the primatiue church the christian Armenians lawfully defended themselues by armes against their Emperor Maximinus Theo. You that feare not to depraue the scriptures wil make no bones to corrupt vitiate other Stories at your pleasures The Armenians being no subiects but confederats wheÌ„ Maximinus would haue compelled them to worship idols to that ende offered them force resisted as they lawfully might of fellowes friends became straÌ„gers aduersaries The words of Eusebius are very plaine for that purpose Maximinus had also warre with the Armenians who of long time before that had bin friendes confederates with the Romanes That people being christians very deuoute this hatefull tyrant attempting to force to the sacrifices of idols diuels made them of friends foes of collegues enimies Phi. The Catholike people of diuers Prouinces haue often by force defended and kept their Bishoppes in their seates against the Infidels but specially against the commaundements of heretical Emperors yea and resisted them in defence of their Churches and the sacred goods of the same As the Citizens of Antioche defended their Church against the Emperour Galerius his officers Theo. Your generall and voluntarie
it were done by forsaking threatning compelling or inuading him the Storie doeth not expresse neither may you suppose what you list without any proofe Had they assaulted him with armes it had beene as easie to haue slaine him there as to haue driuen him thence but no doubt Peter their Bishoppe kept them from that which Moses a conuert of the Saracenes not long before bitterly reprooued in Lucius Phi. You meane Moses the Moncke that Mauia the Queene of the Saracens required to haue for the Bishopppe of her Nation whose fayth the Bishoppe of Rome confirmed in the same letters with Peters election Theo. I doe Phil. What of him Theo. When hee was brought to Lucius to bee made Bishoppe hee sayde I thinke my selfe vnworthie of this function but if it bee profitable for my Countrie that I take it Lucius shall neuer lay handes on mee to make mee Bishoppe for his right hand is embrued with blood Lucius answering that he should not raile but first learne what religion he taught I aske not a reason sayth Moses of thy religion thy doings against thy brethren conuince what religion thou hast A christian doeth not strike doeth not slaunder doeth not fight The seruant of God may not fight But thy woorkes openly shewe themselues by those whome thou hast banished whom thou hast cast to bee deuoured of beasts and consumed with fire If Moses thus abhorred Lucius for fighting and striking what would hee haue sayd to Peter for bearing armes and rebelling if he had beene so good a warrier as you make him Phi. So did Atticus Bishop of Constantinople craue ayde of Theodosius the yonger against the king of the Persians that persecuted his Catholike subiects and was thereby forcibly depriued and his innocent subiects deliuered Theo. The christians of Persia being barbarously persecuted by Bararanes an Infidel and put as Theodorete sheweth to straunge and vnusuall torments fled their Countrie and sauing themselues within the Romane Dominion besought the Christian Emperour they might bee harboured within his land and not bee yeelded vnto the furie of their king The Persian presently sent Legates to haue them backe that were departed his Realme Atticus the Bishoppe of Constantinople opened their cause to the Emperour and laboured what he could for them Theodosius the Emperour woulde not deliuer them as being suppliants to him and no offendours against their king but only that they professed the Christian Religion and hauing besides iust cause to make warre vpon the Persians for that they spoiled his merchants and woulde not restore his Goldminers which they hired of him bid open battell to them and caused the king to be glad with peace and to cease his persecution against the Christians Here is nothing for your purpose vnlesse you say that subiects may rebel for Religion because straungers may bee harboured for religion which were a mad kind of conclusion The Persians asked not armes against their King though a Tyrant but refuge for themselues neither did they assault their Prince on the one side when the Romanes inuaded on the other but with praier expected what end God would giue Atticus was no subiect to the king of Persia and therefore whatsoeuer hee did against a straunger and an enemie is no president for subiects to do the like to their Princes and yet all that he did was this Atticus Episcopus supplicantes cupidé suscepit totus in eo erat vt pro viribus ipsis succurreret Imperatori Theodosio quae gererentur significauit Atticus the Bishoppe embraced their request for themselues with great good will and laboured what hee could to helpe them and signified their state to Theodosius the Emperour Theodosius was a lawfull magistrate and had other and those iust causes to warre vpon the Persian and in that hee refused to deliuer the profugient and innocent Christians to the slaughter hee had the Lawe of nature and nations for his defence And lastly the king of Persia was neither depriued of his kingdome as you falsely report nor his subiects discharged frō their obedience but a peace concluded wherin the King was contended to cease from pursuing the Christians All this you shall find not in the second booke as you quote but in the seuenth where Socrates describeth the occasion and conclusion of this Persian warre From him Nicephorus taketh his light and more than Socrates said before he neither doth nor could affirme Phi. So did holy Pope Leo the first perswade the Emperour called Leo also to take armes against the Tyraunt of Alexandria for the deliuerie of the oppressed Catholiques from him and the heretiques Eutichians who then threw downe Churches and Monasteries and did other great sacrileges Whose wordes for examples sake I will set downe O Emperour saith Sainct Leo if it be laudable for thee to inuade the heathens how much more glorious shall it bee to deliuer the Church of Alexandria from the heauie yoke of outragious heretiques by the calamitie of which Church all the Christians in the world are iniuried Theo. Leo was so holy that hee neuer taught any man to beare armes against his Prince and yet it did nothing hurt his holynes to pray the Emperour to pursue with due punishment the wicked vprore that was made in Alexandria by Timotheus an heretike that placing himselfe in the Bishoprike and killing Proterius the true Bishoppe at the font in the Church caused the carkas by some of his faction to bee drawen along the streetes in a rope and to bee so cutte and mangled that the very intrayles drayled vpon the stones and the rest of the bodie to bee burnt and the ashes scattered into the ayre That villanous and diuelish fact Leo the Bishoppe of Rome beseecheth Leo the Emperour with all seueritie to reuenge assuring him that it is as glorious a conquest before Christ to punish such outragious heretikes as to represse miscreantes and Infidels But howe this shoulde serue your turnes wee can not imagine Will you reason thus Leo the Bishoppe of Rome perswaded the Emperour to chastise some of his subiects that were heretikes and murderers Ergo the people may assault their Prince with armes Take heede left Timotheus heresie and furie reuiue in you again if you fal to liking such consequents Phi. In briefe so did S. Gregorie the great moue Genadius the Exarch to make warres specially against heretikes as a very glorious thing Theo. You speake truer than you are ware of In deede Gregorie the great wrate to Genadius the Exarch in the selfe same sense that Leo before did to Leo the Emperour which is that Magistrates ought to resist and punish the aduersaries of Christes Church as well as the troublers and disturbers of the Common-wealth neither is there any difference in their writings or meanings saue that Leo wrate to the Prince himselfe and Gregorie to his Deputie And since you be come
or the order of those thinges which were doone by reason Platina in these wordes runneth so on heade against the rest And therefore you shall pardon vs for receiuing a man of meane iudgement and one that writeth verie negligently of these affaires before the rest that purposely and largely treated of those matters as neere as they coulde get the knowledge or come by the likelihood of those actions These bee your presidentes for the depriuing of Princes betweene sixe-hundreth and a thowsande yeares after Christ. Other or better you haue not and these you see bee verie slender Phi. Wee coulde alleadge more but you will shift them as you doe these Theo. Wee shift not when wee reproue the partiall and corrupt reportes of your owne fellowes by better and elder testimonies Moe if you haue you neede not spare Philand Philippicus was depriued of the Empire by the Bishoppe of Rome and so was Childerike of the kingdome of Fraunce Theoph. Your Law doeth not sticke to boast that Zacharias deposed Childerike King of Fraunce and placed Pipine in his roome Philand So hee did Theo. Who sayth so besides you Philand Platina sayeth Eius authoritate regnum Franciae Pipino adiudicatur By Zacharies authoritie the kingdom of Fraunce was adiudged vnto Pâ—pine And Frisingensis affirmeth that Pipine was absolued by Pope Steuen from the othe of allegeance which he had giuen to Childerike and so were the rest of the Nobles of Fraunce and then the king being shauen and thrust into a Monasterie Pipine was annoynted king which you thinke much the Pope shoulde doe in our dayes Theoph. Sette aside your helping and interlacing the Storie and I see no cause why Zacharie shoulde bee thought by his Apostolike power to haue deposed Childerike Philand Deposed hee was Theoph. But neither for religion nor by the Popes Consistorie Philand For the cause of his deposition I will not greatly striue Our Lawe sayeth hee was deposed Pro eo quod tantae potestati inutilis erat for that hee was vnfitte for the kingdome but sure Pope Zacharie deposed him Theoph. Sure you bee deceiued Pope Zacharie was then of no such accompt that hee coulde depose Princes Hee was consulted whether it might lawfully bee doone or no but farther than so the Bishoppe of Rome did not in open sight intermedle with the matter whatsoeuer his priuie practises were though many of your Monkes and Bishops to grace the Pope doe make it his onely Act. Philand In all these cases our Stories are against you and no reason wee credite you to discredite them Theoph. I desire you not to credite mee and giue me leaue to doe as much for you but if your owne Stories make with vs I see no cause you shoulde discredite them Philand We doe not Theoph. You may not Then touching the persons which did the deede Sabellicus sayth Proceres Regni populi amplexi Pipini virtutem pertesâ—que regis amentiam Zacharia Romano Pontifice prius consulto regis appellatione Childerico adempta vt spes etiam regni adimeretur in clerum detondent Pipinum regem creant The Nobles Commons of Fraunce or Germanie imbracing the valour of Pipine and hating the foolishnesse of their king hauing first consulted Zacharie Bishop of Rome tooke from Childerike the name of a king and to cutte him from all hope of aspiring to the crowne they sheere him a Monke and elect Pipine for their king Blondus saieth I finde in Alcuinus Paulus and diuerse others which wrote the Actes of the Francks that the Nobles and CommoÌ„s of that Nation duly considering the worthines of Pipine sottishnes of Childerike consulted Zacharie the Bishop of Rome whether they should tolerate so folish a king any loÌ„ger defraud Pipin of his deserued princely honor when the Bishop made answere that he was best worthy to be king which could best discharge the dutie of a king the FraÌ„kes with the publike consent of the whole Nation pronounced Pipine for their king and Childerike was shorne and made a Monke Nauclerus saieth The Franckes elected Pipine for their king by the publike consent of the whole Nation which is all one with that Blondus sayeth They declared or pronounced him for their king And this is the reason that your owne gloze limiteth your Lawe in this sort Deposuit id est deponentibus consensit Zacharie deposed Childerike that is he consented to those which deposed him Phi. The most of our Stories saie hee did it Theoph. Your Stories are very forwarde to attribute euerie thing to the Pope that may any waie increase his power And it may be the Pope had an oare in that boate more than euerie bodie well perceiued For Pipine was the man on whome the Pope wholy relied and whose power hee afterwarde vsed to quaile the Lombards and defeate the Grecians that the Pope and Pipine might diuide the spoyles of the West betweene them And therefore I can bee soone induced to thinke that a maine plotte was layde first to make Pipine king of France and then by his helpe to turne the Greeke Emperour out of Italie that the Pope might haue share of the reuenues of the Empire as not long after it came to passe but that the Pope then claymed any power to depose Princes and giue kingdomes or that the better sore of your owne stories staie on any such pretences you shall neuer shewe Zacharie being consulted made answere what the Germanes by Gods Lawe as he thought might doe but he did not appoint them by sentence or censure what they should doe Philand Howe shall wee knowe that in this diuersitie of reportes Theoph. You shall heare Zacharies answere to the Legates that were sent about this matter and that you may safely trust Philand I mistrust not his owne wordes Theop. You neede not hee woulde fauour himselfe as much as hee might with any good coulour When Volorade and Burcharde were sent to Zacharie to vnderstand his iudgement his answere was I finde in the sacred storie of the Diuine Scriptures that the people fell awaie from their wretchlesse and lasciuious king that despised the counsell of the wise men of his Realme and created a sufficient man one of themselues king God him selfe allowing their doinges All power and rule belong to God Princes are his ministers in their kingdomes And rulers are therefore chosen for the people that they shoulde follow the will of God the chiefe ruler in all thinges and not to doe what they list Hee is a true king that guideth the people committed to his charge according to the prescript and line of Gods Lawe All that hee hath as power glorie riches honour and dignitie he receiueth of the people The people create their king and the people may when the cause so requireth forsake their king It is therefore lawfull for the Franckes and Germanes refusing this vnkindely monster Childerike to choose some such as shall bee able in warre
and peace by his wisedome to protest and keepe in safetie their wiues children parentes goodes and liues I will not examine the Popes diuinitie in that hee sayth Princes haue their powers of the people which the Scripture sayeth they haue of God this is plaine hee claimeth no power to depose Princes but alleadgeth an example that the people may chaunge their king when hee is not able for frensie or follie to do the duetie of a king And by that concludeth it lawfull for the Germanes to refuse that simple idiote which had the Scepter by succession and elect an other Phi. Though you holde the Pope may not yet you confesse the people may depose their Prince Theo. I tell you not what I thinke but what Pope Zacharie sayde to the Germanes Phila. Doe you like or dislike that hee sayde Theo. I shoulde haue asked you that question but because you preuent mee you shall heare what I saie Zâ—charie toucheth not the causes for which Princes may be deposed but the persons by whom it must bee doone if it bee needefull to doe it and that is by their owne Realmes and not by tribunalles abroade as you suppose Phi. Then it may bee doone Theo. When it shoulde bee doone the whole Realme must doe it and not the Pope Phi. But neither hee nor they can doe it except you first assent that it may be doone There can bee no deposers if Princes bee not deposeable Theo. There may fall extremities when Princes are not able to guide themselues much lesse their Realmes Phi. What be those Theo. I named them before frensie follie As if the right heire to any Crowne be a naturall foole or he that is inuested in the Crowne waxe mad and run besides him selfe In either of these two cases any Realme by publike consent and aduise may choose an other Phi. What vnlikely cases you bring vs which neuer yet fell out in proofe Theo. Yeas that they haue Childerike of whom we spake euen now was deposed by the Germanes for a foole And Charles the 3. the last Emperour of Pipines line Gods iustice requiting his children with the verie same measure that he met before vnto his master was deposed by the same people for * a bedlem As also when Iustinus the yonger was * distract of his wits Tiberius was placed in the Empire Philand You make Childerike a foole because you woulde auoide the Popes power to depriue Princes Theophil If you made him not a foole when you putte him from his right vnder that pretence I doe him no wrong Your Stories blaze him for a frantike foole Blondus and Nauclerus saie they did it Pensantes Regis amentiam considering the madnes of the king Sabellicus addeth thereunto * Regis deliria ineptias the follie and frensie of the king Gaguinus saith he was * homo vecors bellua a verie sotte and a beast and for that cause his title in your Stories is Childericus stupidus Childerike the foole whether hee were or no God knoweth but this wee see they handled him like a foole and the Pope had information against him that hee was Deneger monstrum a monster and not a man and therefore were the causes which they alleadged for this deposition true or no wee greatly care not They pretended a cause sufficient if it were true and the Pope confessed it lawefull for the whole Realme to displace such a Prince as was both vn-fitte and vn-able to beare the sworde Philand But Stephen absolued Pipine from the othe of alleageaunce which hee had giuen vnto Childerike Theoph. High time to absolue Pipine from his othe three yeares after Childerike was deposed and hee placed in the kingdome Regino whence that fable first came of Stephens sicknesse at Paris and his recouerie by a vision of Sainct Denis saieth not a worde of any such absolution but onely that Stephen confirmed Pipine and his two sonnes as lawfull kinges of France and adiured the Nobles not to choose them a king of any other line so long as Pipines race indured The rest is added by Monks and Friers in fauor of the Pope as infinite other thinges are in the accidentes of euerie Age. Howbeit absoluing from others if they be lawfull and good is a greater matter than we yet beleeue your holy father may deale with The wauering of your Stories in the cause of Childerikes deposition for sometimes they vrge a defect in Childerike sometimes they pleade a right in Pipine without the king and aboue the king as hauing the regiment of that Realme and all publike affaires committed to him and his for the space of fourscore yeares by way of inheritaunce before hee sought the crowne this wauering in the cause and curious seeking for absolutions and confirmations maketh many men suspect that your pretences against Childerike were not all true But whether Pipine had better interest to the Crowne of Fraunce than Childerike by reason the Mareschal of the Palace was become the kinges master in so much that the king coulde not commaunde his owne diet but at the Marshals pleasure and was gouerned and ouerruled in al things by him as a boy by his tutor which is the constant report of all your witers touching the state of the Germane kinges when Pipine aspired to the crowne or whether Childerike were an idiote and the last of his house as for the better strength of Pipines title your stories auouch I will be no iudge Childerik I say was deposed by the Nobles and commons of his nation and the Pope being consulted whether it were lawfull for them so to doe made answere they might but added no word of his diuine power to dispose kingdoms to his liking And this for Childerik may suffice For Philippicus the answere is easier Hee was a rebell and slue his Master in the fielde and therefore without any farther cause the Romanes might refuse both his name his reigne To this vsurpation when hee added as they thought impietie it was no maruel to see them so earnest against him But in this as in many other things your later Stories stray from the former The elder sort of Historiographers as Beda Regino Marianus Frisingensis Vrspergensis say The people of Rome decreed that neither his name nor letters nor coyne shoulde be receiued the later as Blondus Sabellicus and Nauclerus haue chaunged their tune and say The Bishop of Rome did it at the clamor and petition of the people Sigebert as indifferent betweene them saith the Bishop and the people ioyntly did it So handsomly you can hammer thinges when they come to your fingering and such credit your Stories deserue when the case concerneth your holy Fathers authoritie These bee all the examples you doe or can bring for the space of a thowsand yeares after Christ where Princes were depriued of their crownes by the Bishop of Rome and these how litle they make for your purpose
I leaue to the iudgement of the christian Reader Your catalogue of the Germane Emperours that insueth As of Frederike the first Frederike the second Otho the fift Lewes the thirde Lewes the fourth and Henrie the thirde or as some call him the fourth maketh shew to the simple but doth you no good The eldest of these that were offered depriuation by the Pope is Henrie the fourth whom Gregorie the seuenth a thowsand threescore and six yeares after Christ prouoked with that iniurie but to his owne vtter ouerthrow You recken Lewes the thirde and Lewes the fourth for Princes depriued of their Empires by the Bishoppe of Rome but reason were you did first tell vs whom you meane and how you proue it Marianus Scotus and they that follow him make Lewes the third to be Lodouicus Balbus to whom Pope Iohn fled annointed him king of the Romanes when the Nobles of Rome inclined rather to Charles the thirde and gaue him possession of the citie who was after annointed by Pope Iohn at his returne Lodouike the thirde liuing skant two yeares after his coronation Martinus Polonus numbreth him for Lewes the third that was next after Arnulphus but whether it were Lodouike the sonne of Arnulphus or an other of that name the sonne of Boso he doth not determine onely he saith Berengarius caught him at Verona and recouered the Empire which Blondus and Marianus report of Lodouike the sonne of Boso and not of Lodouike the sonne of Arnulphus as Platina doth In this vncertaintie of your Stories you might haue done wel to haue distinguished the person pointed out your author you now driue vs to suspect that you go about to haue them deposed that were neuer crowned Of Lodouike the sonne of Arnulphus Martinus saith Hee succeeded his father sed ad coronam Imperij non peruenit but hee neuer was crowned Emperour And Platina confesseth the same In the place of Arnulphus we read that Lodouike was made Emperour quem tamen nusquam habuisse imperij Coronam accepimus of whom we do not finde that euer hee had the Crowne of the Empire If hee neuer receiued the Crowne how could hee bee deposed from the Crowne Phi. Perhappes the Pope kept him from it Theo. Perhappes you can not tell but thinke you that Princes will loose their Crownes for your perhappes Phi. He neuer had it Theo. But had he any wrong to bee kept from it Phi. Howe thinke you of that Theo. Your proofes bee verie mightie that must depende on my thoughtes Phi. Wee brought in these instances as it were by the way to let you see what stoare of examples wee had Theo. Then take them out of the way for they do but hinder your cause When Charles the thirde otherwise called Carolus Crassus grewe both sicke and lunatike the Nobles of Germanie cleane forsooke him and choose Arnulphus which as some say was the sonne of Charlemaine but as Blondus affirmeth was obscurissimo natus loco a man very basely borne and not of Charles line by reason whereof the kingdomes which before were subiect to Charles now as destitute of a right heire beganne to fall in sunder on euerie side to choose kinges of themselues Then Fraunce tooke Charles the childe cognamed Simple and when his simplicitie displeased them they set Otho the sonne of Robert Duke of Saxonie in his place At the same time the people of Italy meaning to haue a king of their own could not agree on the matter but chose some Berengarius and others Guido and so had two kinges in Italy both calling and bearing them-selues as Emperours Besides these defections Arnulphus had long and sharpe warres with Rodolph that proclaimed him-selfe king of Prouince and with the Nortmanes that ranged in many partes of Fraunce and Germanie So that the Pope did not depose Lewes the thirde as you would insinuate but Italie seeing the line of Charles to bee expired thought to make an Emperour of their owne bowels and to keepe off straungers that before had the rule ouer them and so they did for threescore yeares till barbarous inuasions and domesticall seditions and disorders made them glad to send to Otho the great and to receiue him for their Emperor and to yeelde to a forme of electing to the Empire by certaine Bishops and Princes of Germanie which hath indured vntil this present This your own Stories abundantly confirme saue that some write of Arnulphus that he marched with his armie through the middest of Italy and tooke Rome and caused him-selfe to bee crowned Emperour as Regino sayth who then liued by Formosus the Bishoppe of Rome which Blondus doth skant beleeue Howsoeuer that were they all agree that Berengarius and Guido were chosen kinges of Italie when Arnulphus was first aduaunced to Charles his place Blondus saieth Arnulpho apud Francos in Imperatorem creato Romani caeteri Itali nullum ab imperatore nouo dissidijs Regni Franciae implicito auxilium aduersus rebelles Longobardos affuturum intelligentes Berengarium Foronâ—liensem Ducem Roma oriundum crearunt Imperatorem Arnulphus being chosen Emperour by the Germanes the Romanes and Italians perceiuing they might looke for no helpe against the rebellious Lombards from that new Emperor hauing his hands ful of the dissentioÌ„s of his own kingdom created Berengarius the duke of Frioli a Romane their emperor Neither yet did they so wel agree in that electioÌ„ but that other chose Guido the Duke of Spoletum to be king of Italie Otho Frisingensis maketh the same report Charles the next yeare after hee was deposed died From that time to Otho wee finde the regiment at Rome verie confused For after the death of Charles which raigned sixe yeares and ledde a priuate life the seuenth yeare the Empire was rent in many partes euery Prouince desirous to haue a seuerall king onely Arnolfus had the greatest share Therefore the Italians make themselues two kinges Berengarius Duke of Friault and Guido Duke of Spoletum Of the which Berengarius chased out of his couÌ„try by Guido â—led for succour to Arnolfus You can not proue hence that Arnulphus or Lewes his sonne were depriued by the Pope but only that the Romanes made an other defection from the Empire who after they had once tasted the sweetnesse that came by cutting the empire in peeces for where before they were suppliaÌ„ts subiects now by the larges of Pipine they were Lords of halfe Italie by their willes could neuer haue rested And though the Germanes and Italians differ in their reckonings the Germanes accounting Berengarius and those that succeeded him vntil Otho the great for vsurpers and contrary-wise the Italians accepting them for their naturall and true Emperours Yet that is no cause for you to auouch that the Pope deposed any of them For put the case either way that the Germanes were lawfully excluded as hauing no right or wrongfully debarred of their
such thing and putting the Pastorall staffe in his handes first himselfe named him Abbate and prayed the rest both souldiers and Monkes to consent to his election Likewise when the Abbate of Loressan was dead and the Monkes and souldiers hee meaneth the Clergie and the people of the place had elected the Prior with one accord to succeede and came to the Court for the kings consent neither was it thought that the king woulde dissent for that the Prior was in some grace and fauour with the king by reason of his diligent seruice afore that tyme the king caught an other of the Monkes of the same house by the hand which came with the rest of his brethren thinking on no such thing and drewe him into the midst of the companie amazed at the matter and to the great admiration of all men gaue him the Pastorall staffe This report the very mislikers of Henry the fourth doe giue him touching his hatred and detestation of Symonie and his Princely disposition to make free choice of Bishoppes and Abbattes If some tymes hee were ledde with affection and fansie I knowe neither Pope people nor Prince that may not bee often affected intreated and deceiued in their gyftes and elections bee they neuer so wise and otherwise neuer so syncere But your Monkes as Marianus Dodechinus and others did the Prince great wrong to diffame him with all posteritie for one that solde all spirituall lyuinges especially where the Pope himselfe charged him with no such thing in his Synodall sentence against him Phi. All Stories crie out on Henry the fourth for Symonie Theoph. Neither doe I thinke that his tyme was free from it though his person were The writer of his life seemeth to complaine of those that were about him and had the gouerning of him in his nonage After the yong king was taken from his mothers lappe and lighted into the handes of his Nobles to bee brought vp by them whatsoeuer they prescribed him as a child hee did it hee exalted whom they would and deposed whome they willed him in so much that they did not serue him but raigne ouer him When matters of the kingdome were handled they regarded not the common-wealth but their priuate respects and in all thinges which they went about the first and chiefest marke they aymed at was their owne gaine But when hee came to that stay of age and witte that hee coulde discerne what was honest and profitable for him selfe and his Realme what not retracting those thinges which hee had doone at the suggestion of the Nobles hee condemned many of his owne factes and becomming as it were a iudge of himselfe hee chaunged thinges where neede so required I will therefore neither excuse him for licentiousnes of life when hee was young nor those that were about him from briberie but the Symonie which your holie Father shot at was an other matter Hee sawe the Clergie did relie too much as hee thought vppon their Prince by reason all Bishoprickes Abbayes and Benefices were in the Kinges gift and none placed in them but such as loued and honoured the King which was not for the Popes purpose the whole Clergie by their example and doctrine leading the people to reuerence and obey the magistrate The first steppe therefore to weaken the king not by sedition on the suddaine but by defection in continuance was to get the Clergie to bee neither promoted by the King nor beholding vnto the king but to exâ—mpâ— first their lyuings and after their persons from the Kinges power that thereby they might the more freely take part with the Pope against the King without all daunger and drawe the people after them vnder pretence of Religion when tyme shoulde serue Which at first was not spied of Princes till all too late they founde by proofe that when the Pope beganne to quarrell with them and excommunicate them for very trifling and earthly causes the Bishoppes Priestes and Monkes presently syded with the Pope against the Prince and taught the people that it was damnable to ayde maintaine or assist any Person or Prince excommunicate against the Church so they called the Pope and his Cardinals and this terror of conscience made subiectes euen by heapes abandour their Princes and aggregate them-selues to the Popes faction which otherwise they woulde not haue done had they not beene rightly instructed by their Pastours to obey their Princes and not to feare friuolous and rash excommunications from Rome whiles Popes will rule all and bee resisted by none The first layer of this corner stone in the kingdome of Antichrist was Hildebrand with his skilfull exposition of Symonie who resolued in his Councels at Rome that to accept any spirituall lyuing from a layman were hee King or Caesar that gaue it must bee taken for Symonie and as well the giuer as the taker bee cursed and excommunicated These bee his woordes Following the steppes of our holy fathers as wee haue doone in former Councels so in this by the authoritie of almightie GOD wee decree and pronounce that he which hereafter accepteth any Bishoprike Abbay or other ecclesiasticall Benefice at a lay mans hand shall in no wise bee counted a Bishoppe Abbate or Clerke and that he shall not dare approch to Rome vnder paine of the greatest curse vntill repenting him of his fact hee hath refused the place gotten by such ambition and contumacie which is al one with Idolatrie To the same censures wee will haue Kinges Dukes and Princes tied and subiected which shall presume to giue Bishoprickes or other ecclesiastical dignities a thing neither fit nor lawfull This sayth Platina he decreed lest the Church of Rome should receiue any hurt by briberie and Symonie Gregorie decided it to bee Symonie for a layman to present to a Benefice or for a Bishoppe to expect the Princes consent whereas in the Primatiue Church the people which were laymen chose their Pastours and for a long tyme the Bishoppes of Rome them-selues were not chosen without the Princes consent and that which Hildebrande affirmeth here to be Symonie the Bishoppes of the same See before him confessed to bee godly and the Emperours were possessed of it as of their right euer since the dayes of Charles which was very neere three hundreth yeres That stood good sayth Platina sixe hundreth and eightie yeres after Christ in the election of the Bishoppe of Rome which the Emperour or his Deputie in Italie confirmed This was in force a thousande yeeres after Christ euen when Hildebrande came to the Popedome as appeareth by the message which Henrie the fourth sent to the Romanes vpon the choise of Hildebrand and his answere backe againe to the Emperour For when the Romanes after the death of Alexander had elected Hildebrand without expecting the Princes pleasure the King sent Eberhardus an Earle to the States of Rome to knowe the cause quare praeter consuetudinem maiorum
not or can not procure the Popes fauour For so the Bishoppes of Rome haue vsed their excommunications against Princes and others as the examples that followe will fully declare To make an ende first with Hildebrand if either the successe that GOD gaue him in his furious attempt or the iudgements of your best and syncerest Stories neere that tyme bee woorthie to bee regarded they condemne this act of Hildebrande as vniust and vngodly Rodolf whome the Pope and the Saxons set vp against his master lost his right hand in the fielde as hee sought to get the Crowne from him and when by reason of that and other woundes hee was readie to giue vp the ghost Vrspergensis reporteth of him that looking on the stumpe of his arme and fetching a deepe sigh hee sayde to the Bishoppes that were about him beholde this is the hande wherewith I sware alleagance to my Soueraigne Lorde Henrie and nowe I leaue you see both his kingdome and this present life you that made me aspire to his throne take you heede that you lead me right I followed your aduise The same yeere that Rodolf was slaine Hildebrand by reuelation from heauen as hee sayde foretolde that that very yeere the false king should die but his coniecture of the false King which hee interpreted to bee Henry deceiued him sayth Sigebert For Henry fighting a set battell with the Saxons Rodolf the false king and many of the Nobles of Saxonie were slaine If this were a reuelation from God as Gregorie pretended then by the foretelling and perfourming of this accident GOD himselfe pronounced him the false King whom the Pope erected and maintained against Henry the fourth If it were no reuelation from aboue but a consortion with spirites from beneath then was Gregorie no such Saint as you make him that had felowshippe with Diuels and his owne master betrayed and beguyled the frantike humour of his infernall disciple Foure yeares after Hildebrande him-selfe was forsaken of his owne people and by their consent depriued of his Popedome and hee faine to flie to the barbarous Normanes for refuge and there in banishment died Romani Imperatorem Henricum recipiunt in vrbe eorum iudicio Hildebrandus Papatu abdicatur The Romanes receiue Henrie Emperour into their citie and by their iudgement Hildebrand is depriued of the Popedome Vrspergensis confirmeth the same Vnde Romani commoti manus Regidederunt Hildebrandum vero Papam vnanimeter abdicarunt whereupon the Romanes being moued that the Pope would not come in the kings presence to haue the matter hearde submitted themselues to the king and with one consent abandoned Pope Hildebrand Who lying at the point of death as Sigebert founde written of him called vnto him of the twelue Cardinals whom hee loued aboue the rest and confessed to God S. Peter and the whole church that hee had greatly sinned in the Pastorall charge which was committed vnto him and that at the instinct of the diuell he had stirred hatred hart-burning amongest men Beno the Cardinall testifieth the same though some of your Romish writers stoutly auouch the contrary This was the successe of Hildebrande and his newe made king the one vppon the losse of his hande and ende of his life remembring his oth and repenting his treason the other seeking to displace the Prince was displaced him selfe and lost his Popedome whiles he laboured to set the Prince besides his throne As touching the fact Frisingensis saith this was the first onset that euer Bishop of Rome gaue to depriue the Emperour I reade and ouerreade saieth he the gestes of the Romane kings and Emperors and I neuer find any of them before this man excommunicated by the Bishop of Rome or depriued of his kingdom Sigebert wisely and truly giueth his iudgement of this and the like interprise To speake with the leaue of all good men this only nouelty I will not say heresie was not crept into the worlde before the daies of Hildebrand that Priestes should teach the people they owe no subiection to euil kinges and that although they haue sworne fidelitie vnto him yet they must yeelde him none neither may they bee counted periures for holding against the king but rather he that obeyeth the king is excommunicated he that rebelleth against the king is absolued frō the blemish of disloyalty periurie Gerochus a great champiō of Gregories is fain to say of him The Romanes vsurp to themselues a diuine honor they wil yeeld no reason of their doinges neither can they abide that any man should say vnto them why doe you so They answere as the Poete writeth so I will and commande Let my will stand for reason Vrspergensis sayeth of the Synode at Mentz where in the presence of the Romane Legates the Bishops that rebelled with Hildebrand against the Emperour were deposed Ibi communi consensu consilio constituta est pax Dei There by common consent and counsell the peace of God was established which concludeth Gregorie to be the author of a diuelish dissention against the Emperour Phi. Wee care for none of these that speake euill of Gregories doing so long as we haue a greater number of stories to commend him Theo. And wee hauing the true reportes of these that liued in the same age with him which neither you nor the rest of your Romish faction can disproue litle regard what men that came after and were more desirous to please the Pope than to write the truth haue published in their stories You nor all the writers you haue shall euer be able to refell the assertions of Sigebert Frisingensis that Hildebrād was the first Bishoppe of Rome which attempted to depriue Princes of their Crownes and that this noueltie or rather heresie was neuer hearde of before Howe lawfull then it was which for a thowsande yeares the church of Rome neuer durst aduenture till Gregorie the seuenth first presumed to doe it leaning rather to wicked and seditious policie than to christian and confessed authoritie the simple may soone discerne or if they looke to the end they shall see the reward that is consequent to all rebellions A good instruction sayeth that auncient reporter of Henries life was giuen to the worlde that no man shoulde rise against his master The right hand of Rodolph cut off shewed a most iust punishment of periurie in that he feared not to violate his fidelitie sworne to the king his Soueraigne and as though other woundes had not beene sufficient to bring him to his death that part also was punished that by the plague the fault might bee perceiued Phi. If you stand on successe Henrie him-selfe was lifted at last out of his kingdome by his owne sonne Theo. Was it not wickednesse enough to arme the subiectes against their Prince to set the sonne to impugne the father but you must also crake of it The way that Hildebrand beganne
his successours woulde not leaue as being the onely meane to make them Lordes of al. And therefore when Rodolf was slaine HermaÌ„nus was speedily erected against Henrie and had his rewarde as speedily at a womans hande which with a mightie stone as hee was comming in sport to trie the force of his souldiers beat out his braines from the toppe of a castle in earnest Ecbertus was the thirde that ascended to his masters seate and hee not long after was caught in a windmill and paid his life for his ransome Subiectes hauing so euill successe against their Prince the Pope and his confederates thought to trie what the sonne woulde doe against the father and first they perswade Conradus the eldest sonne of Henrie whom his father left in Italie to represse the force of Mathilda to ioyne with her against his owne father and to with-drawe the whole kingdome of Italie from obedience to the Emperour Which vnnaturall dealing of Conradus forced the father to disherite him and to make choise of his yonger sonne Henrie the fift to succeed him in the Empire taking an oth of him least hee shoulde runne his brothers course that during his owne life the sonne shoulde not medle with the fathers kingdom or countries but by the fathers consent The elder brother not long after departed this life which occasioned the Pope and his adherentes to temper with Henrie the fift though by nature and oth bounde to the contrarie that hee shoulde take the Scepter in hande and rather beare him-selfe as king than suffer a straunger to rise vppe and put both the father and the sonne in hazarde to haue the kingdome from them This feare ioyned with a youthly desire to raigne brought the sonne to take armes against the father and to meete him in open field with a periured and wicked purpose to defeate him of his crowne The matter had come to dint of sword but that the chiefe on both sides abhorring those vnnaturall warres pretended to parle as if they would compose the strife without blood in which conference of theirs the father found the Nobles that were with him incline rather to the sonne rising than setting and to faynt from the possessour of the Crowne for dreade of him that shoulde bee successour and for that cause secretely conueyed him-selfe from the campe and fledde to the Duke of Bohemia and to the Saxons who before were his mortall enimies and the first attempters of his deposition but nowe seeing that vngratefull and parricidiall attempt of his bowelles against him honoured and assisted the father to the vttermost of their power The Popes Legates and the rest of that faction fearing the friendes and doubting the valour and former successe of Henrie the fourth turned them-selues to their Romish artes and perswaded the sonne to faine a kinde of submission and reconciliation to his father vppon this condition if hee woulde but retaine peace with the See of Rome To that the father accorded referring him-selfe and his cause to the indifferent iudgement of his Nobles and Princes and receiuing of his sonne for the safetie of his life and honour promises teares and othes all which notwithstanding hee was with a faire pretence ledde to a castle by the waie as they trauelled and being receiued in as an Emperour he was kept there as a prisoner and this offer made him either to loose his heade or to resigne his Empire By these detestable periuries practises the son gat the father to relinquish the Crowne and this if you thinke to bee good successe you may say that Iudas had as good in betraying his master as Henrie the fift in displacing his father Phi. The same Gregorie the seuenth did the like commendable iustice vppon the king of Pole Bolislaus the 2. as wel excommunicating as depriuing him for murdering of his Bishop S. Stanislaie at the verie altar Against which sentence though hee stood by force and contempt for a time yet at length hee was forsaken and resisted wholy by his subiects fled and in fine slue himselfe Theoph. The iustice doone vppon Henrie the fourth was not verie commendable One of your owne friendes confesseth the Prince was condemned Absens inauditus both in his absence and not so much as hearde whaâ— he could say for himselfe The Bishops of Italie Germany thought it not verie commendable when they deposed the Pope Quod Regem nullo exemplo anathemate praeter omnem causam perculisset for that hee had accursed depriued the king which was neuer seen before that without al iust cause And surely to restore the Prince to the communion as Gregorie did at Canusium and yet to defeate him of his Crown and to set vp his seruaunt to rebell against him this had no shewe of iustice And if you commende it you haue your consciences seared with an hoat Iron and will speake nothing that may displease the Pope be it neuer so iust or true The murdering of Bishop Stanislay by Boleslaus the second king of Polonia we mislike as well as you but the depriuing him of his Crowne and allowing his subiectes to conspire his death that was to requite sinne with sinne and to reuenge murther with a more hainous and impious murder It was not lawfull for the king to kill a Bishop that admonished him of his viciâ—us life much lesse was it lawfull for subiectes to conspire the death of their Prince Neither act was good but of the twaine the Popes was the leuder For in steede of reducing the king to repentance which should haue beene his only purpose he interdicted the whole Realme from the seruice of God which is rather the subuerting of innocents than the punishing of offendâ—urs vsed the kings sinne as a pretence to incite the subiects to greater sinne and to settle his vsurped power ouer the Princes of Polonia that should succeede by charging the Bishoppes to annoynt or crowne no king after that without his consent Your own author confesseth no lesse When these thinges saith he which Boleslaus had done were reported at Rome Gregorie the seuenth then Bishop moued with the haynousnesse of the fact interdicted the whole Realme from diuine seruice accursed Boleslaus to the deepe pit of hell and in solemne manner depriued him of his kingdome and commanded the bishops that they should annoint crwone no king after that without his licence Notwithstanding this depriuation Boleslaus raigned a yeare and more after that but hated of all at home and contemned abroade in so much that the Nobles of Ruscia which he had coÌ„quered refused their subiection and certaine of his Nobles and states at home conspired his death which conspiracie being detected he fearing lest moe were of their counsell fled to Ladislaus king of Hungarie who receiued him very curteously and honorably He fled fearing his owne subiectes whom he had tyrannously oppressed not long before with shamefull crueltie as the same
writer witnesseth who also bringeth three reportes of his death one that hee fell mad and slue himselfe an other that in hunting he was cast off his horse and torne of dogges the thirde that wandering into a straunge Countrie he became a skullin in a certaine monasterie and there in repentance ended his life Phi. If his ende were so straunge his life coulde not bee good Theo. I commend not his life if it be true that Cromerus writeth of him I rather acknowledge the iust iudgement of God in taking vengeance of his sinnes Phi. Why doe you not acknowledge the like in his deposition Theoph. Because the Pope is not God to whom the punishing of Princes sinnes doeth rightly belong Phi. Would you that Princes should kill Bishops at the verie Altar for doing their duties and yet goe free Theo. As if God were not both as sincere and seuere a iudge as the Pope Phi. Who doubteth of that Theo. Then shall they not goe free that sinne against his lawe bee they Princes or others Phi. I speake of the meane time before that day come wherein hee shall iudge Theo. And in the meane time which you speake of God mightily punisheth all sortes and states though not by the Pope Phi. He punisheth by diseases and straunge kinde of deathes as hee seeth cause but yet good Lawes must be made and maintained by men for the repressing of vice amongst men Theo. Uerie true but those lawes must bee made by Princes and not by Popes Bishops haue not to do with the sworde which God hath giuen vnto Princes for the punishment of euill doers Phi. And what if Princes them-selues be the doers of euill who shall punish them Theo. Euerie soule must bee subiected to them and they to God They beare the sworde ouer others not others ouer them Besides them or aboue them no man beareth the sworde by Gods appointment Phi. The keyes are aboue the sworde Theo. The keyes open and shutte the kingdome of God they touch not the bodies nor inheritances of priuate men much lesse of Princes Onely the sworde is corporally to compell and punish which is not the Priestes but the Princes charge as I haue often shewed Phi. To let Princes doe what they will without feare of punishment is the next way to ouerthrow common-wealthes Theo. What kingdom can you shewe wherein it hath beene otherwise Saul willed Doeg in his presence to â—lea fourescore and fiue of the Lordes Priestes and hee smote their citie with the edge of the sworde both men women children and sucklinges Did Abiathar the high Priestes sonne that fledde and escaped depriue Saul of his kingdome or did Dauid for whose cause they were slain when shortly after hee had Saul in his power to doe with him as hee woulde seeke the kings life or suffer his men to take it that were readie to doe it Dauid when he was king defloured Bethsabe and caused her husbande to be murdered Did therefore any Priest or Prophet in all his Realme offer to depose him or did Absolon well to conspire against him Achab ioyned with Iesabel in putting Naboth to death and killing the Lords Prophets Did Elias depriue him or incite his subiectes to forsake him Herod beheaded Iohn Baptist and likewise Iames and apprehended Peter with a purpose to sende him after but that hee was deliuered by an Angell did Peter therefore take vengeance on Herode which hee might haue done with a worde as well as on Ananias or did he leaue him to the iudgement of God which shortly after insued with an horrible plague The tyrantes of all ages and vices of all princes both before the comming of our Sauiour and since haue they beene punished by Priestes as you woulde haue it or else haue they beene reserued to Gods tribunals as we affirme Phi. Some haue beene punished by Priestes though not all Theoph. Shew but one prince for fiue thowsand yeares since the first foundation of the earth that was iudicially cited examined corrected by a priest til Hildebrand began this new president If any princes were during all that time repressed it was done by their own states realms that for their extreme tyranny priests alwaies refrained those attempts and neuer thought it any part of their vocatioÌ„ to medle with the changing and altering of kingdoms Phi. It is a better readier way to reforme princes to subiect them to the tribunall of one godly Bishop as we do than to leaue them in thraldome to popular tumults and mutinies as you do Theo. We leaue them in thraldom to none but only to God and to serue him is no thraldome but an honorable and princely liberty Yet if princes were to choose their iudges among men they were farre better referre themselues to the generall consent of their Nobles commons at home than hold their scepters at the pleasures of disdainful seditious Popes which seeke to dishonor their persons impouerish their Realmes Phi. You speake this of spite Theo. Your own examples wil proue it a truth How dealt Adrian the fourth and Alexander the third with Frederike the first a wise valiaunt and vertuous prince Did not Adrian receiue a great summe of mony to excommunicate the Emperor the stomack which the pope tooke against the prince grew it not vpon these causes for that the Emperor in his letters put his own name before the Popes and required homage fealty of the Bishops for their temporalities and would not suffer the Cardinals to pray vpon the churches of Germany Did not the Cardinals conspire bind themselues with an oth that they would neuer choose any to be Pope but one that should be an opposite to this Emperor And when AlexaÌ„der the third was shuffled in by that faction against Victor did he not twise refuse to haue the matter discussed by councel and stirred vp the kings of Scicily France and the states of Venice against the Emperour and caused all the cities countries of Italie to rebell against him and hauing taken his thirde sonne prisoner would hee restore him or make peace with the father til in presence of al the people at the dore of S. Marks church in Venice the prince had cast his body flat on the ground the pope setting his foote on the Emperors neck had auanced himself with that part of the Psalme which saith Thou shalt walke vpoÌ„ the aspe the basilisk and shalt tread the lion and dragon vnder thy feete The parts that were plaied by the Bishops of Rome with Frederike the second Lodouik of Bauaria king Iohn of this Lande and Lewes the 12. of that name king of France which are your own examples if I should largely pursue theÌ„ a whole volume would not suffice them I wil therfore rip vp so much only as shal let the reader see with what cunning these princes were wearied with what pride they
othe you haue taken to the Empeire can yeeld to them and they intend to send oratours to the Pope and to the Colledge of Cardinals to request them to cease from this course If they refuse your Princes are resolued to meete at Rens vpon Rhene there to deliberate with you for the farther resisting of these practises Phi. If these electors were so earnest for Lodouik how hapned they choose Charles the fourth against him Theo. The Pope wan the Duke of Saxonie with monie as Conrade of Maidenburge craketh and so with a newe Archbishoppe of Cullen whome the Pope intruded the former incumbent yet liuing Charles sonne to the king of Bohemia and nephew to the Archbishop of Treuers was chosen who were easily induced to consent to the election of one so neere them in blood but neither would the Princes of Germanie receiue him nor durst hee medle with the Empire so long as Lodouike liued For when Ludouik called the Nobles togither vpoÌ„ the choice of Charles asked theÌ„ whether of the twaine they would haue to beare rule ouer them The whole assemblie without any staie cried out that Lodouike was their Soueraigne and their Emperour appointed by God and that they woulde continue in his obedieÌ„ce And there detesting the persidiousnes of those few that made this new choise defieng Charls in the worst words they could giue with great zeale they renewed their oth to Lodouike and promised him their helpe to reuenge that wickednes And so Charles hated of all the Germanes for the breach of his oth to Lodouike and no where receiued as Emperour was conueied into Bohemia Neither durst he come out of his hoale or take the gouernment vpon him so long as Ludouike liued Nauclerus likewise confesseth that Ludouike gathering the imperiall cities togither at Spires fouÌ„d them very earnest on his side so that none of the cities of Rhene Sueuia or Franconia any whit esteemed the new election of Charles or the Popes processe In this state they stood defending their Prince and neglecting the Pope till the death of Ludouike who being well in health and verie pleasaunt at a feast where he met the Dutchesse of Austria as soone as he drank of the cuppe which the Dutchesse reached him presently felt himselfe sicke as Cuspinian sayeth feeling a griping at his hart suspected himselfe to be poisoned and getting on his horse to ride abroade was stroken with a palsie and fell from his horse and gaue vp the Ghost After his death the Bishop of Mentz the Marquesse of Brandenburge the Palatine of Rhene with the Duke of Saxonie that newly succeded coÌ„cluding the choice of Charles to be voide sent a solemn message to Edward the third king of England inuiting him to take the Empire But hee with thankes refused it Not long after they choose Gunter who the same yeare was poysoned with a potion his Physition also dying within three dayes whom the king commaunded to drinke before him Phi. This was not the Popes doing Theo. Whose doing it was we know not but thus they were made awaie that withstood the Pope And so was king Iohn of his Land vppon whom your holy father and his religious adhereÌ„ts shewed the fulnes of your Romish deuises You forced a disordered election vpon him and when he would not like it you depriued him of his crowne and offered the same to the king of France and to his heyres for euer with full remission of his and all their sinnes that would take weapon in hande to driue king Iohn from his Realme And after you had assembled a mightie force against him you counselled him rather to resigne his crowne into y Popes handes and to take it againe of him in farme than with fire and sword to be chased out of his land and loose both his kingdom and his life And by this cunning when you had gotten the kings graunt to subiect himselfe and his crowne to the church of Rome you restrained him cursed the Frenche kinges sonne souldiers whom your selues had incited to this pray for not leauing off when you willed them and loosing all their labour and charges when you were once seased of that you sought for In the end when you saw him so much in the Popes fauour that he preuailed against his Barons and Bishops as he would himselfe you sent him packing with poyson which a Monk tempered for him in the Abbeie of Swinesteade not farre from Lincolne Phi. That he was poysoned is not true as also that Stephen LanghtoÌ„s election to the See of Canterburie was disordered and as for the rest I see no cause why you should mislike Theo. That he was poysoned is witnessed by Caxton Hemingfoord and others Matthew Paris and Matthew of Westminster in fauour of the Monk that did it themselues being Monkes say he surfited with eating Peaches and drinking sweet wine which also the rest affirm but those they auouch were poisoned Polydor bringeth both reportes as finding them both written There are saith hee which write that a Monke of Swinestead prouoked with certaine wordes which king Iohn spake tempered poyson with wine and dranke thereof himselfe before the king to get him to doe the like and so they both departed this life almost at one instaÌ„t Of Stephen Langhtons election to the See of Canterburie we need no better witnes than yâ— Monke of S. Albons that was then aliue had no fansie to king Iohn as may â—e seene by his writings Phi. Will you stand to his opinion in this cause Theo. Historiographers vse to declare what was doone not to decide what was wel or euill done I take the fact as he reporteth it let the reader be iudge of the cause Some of the Monks of Canterburie choose their Subprior to be Archbishop in the night without any solemne forme without the kinges consent and without the greater part of the conuent the rest choose the Bishoppe of Norwich in the day time the king being there and consenting to their election which was celebrated before sufficieÌ„t witnesses Both parts presenting their electes to the Bishop of Rome after long discussing the Pope pronounced either election to bee voide and disabled both the contendours to bee chosen to that See And knowing what good an Archbishop might doe him in furthering his collections exactions in this Land he commanded the Monks there present vpon paine of excommunication to make choice of Stephen LaÌ„ghton before they departed the place And when the Monks answered they could not celebrate an electioÌ„ that would be canonical without the kings coÌ„sent the rest of their couent the Pope catching the word out of their mouthes said know ye that in elections made here with vs the assent of Princes is not wont to be expected Wherfore in vertue of your obedience vnder the daÌ„ger of our curse we coÌ„mand you to choose him whom
we appoint you to be the father pastor of your soules So the Monks for fear of excoÌ„munication though against their willes not without grudging gaue their voices and choose Stephen Langhton to be Primate of England Let go the wrong which the Bishop of Norwich receiued in that the Pope of his mere pleasure did frustrate his election to gratifie one of his own What Law permitteth the Pope to force men in their elections to choose whom he list to prescribe How could that election be good which was plainly wrested from a few Monks beyond the Seas with threats excommunications the rest that were at home being neither called nor bouÌ„d to go out of the Land for the choice of their Archbishop Why should not the king refuse that violent and shamefull packing of the Pope to plant his Cardinals in this Realm Or what should the king looke to haue of him that was deuoted to the court of Rome obtruded on him in this violent maner but a deadly enimie to his state as it after fel out and a continuall practiser against his person Phi. That is your suspition The. It proued too true for the kings auaile For this prelat not only inceÌ„sed the Pope against the king that he might be receiued to his See but after the king was reconciled and himselfe quietly possessed of his church he set all the Barons of this realme in an open rebellion against the king that neuer ceased till the king was poysoned Phi. You charge him vntruly Theo. His owne actes will not belie him The next yeare after his vntoward election the Pope interdicted the whole Land for that the king would not admit Steuen Langhton into his Realme no point of godlie discipline to chaftise the king but a tricke of your Romish policie to get the subiects to murmur at the Magistrate And foure yeares after when the Pope staied somwhat long as they thought in contriuing his matters against king Iohn your Canterbury Cardinall with the Bishops of London and Flie went to Rome coÌ„plained to the pope of the manifold rebellioÌ„s enormities which king Iohn had coÌ„tinued froÌ„ the time of the interdict to that present day increasing his cruelty tyraÌ„ny so these ambitious hirelings termed their soueraignes doings against God his holy church without intermissioÌ„ WherupoÌ„ they made supplicatioÌ„ to the pope that he would voutsafe of his godly coÌ„passion to helpe the church of England in this extremity So nice your clergie was yâ— wheÌ„ they were but a litle defalked of their abundaÌ„ces superfluities they could no longer abide it but desired to haue the king deposed Phi. The king seased on all their goods caused them to redeeme their immunities liberties raised a grieuous persecutioÌ„ against the whole clergy through out England Theo. We doubt not but your Monkes in this freight wil make great flames of smal sparks The king of EnglaÌ„d did as any prince in this like case would The clergy of this realm was at that time a richer and wealthier state than the Laitie discharged from all burdens and taxes to the crowne by the fauor of the Princes his progenitors If therefore when the Pope beganne to quarrell with the king about the chiefest church in his Realme and offered him so open wrong the cleargie were readie with their wealth and strength to assist the Pope against the king why should not the king both sease their goods into his handes make them redeeme their priuileges which they were wel able to doe for the maintenaunce of his crowne and kingdome against a wicked and iniurious oppressour And sure for ought that I see the king did but iustice For where the clergie refused to doe their duties and would not so much as say him or his people anie diuine seruice why shoulde the Prince suffer them to inioy those liuinges that were prouided for such as would Phi. The fault was not theirs they were restrained by the Popes interdict Theo. Were the fault in them or the Pope this is euident the clergie might better lacke their liuinges than the Realme diuine seruice Phi. Was it not tyrannie to famish so many thowsand Monkes Priests as were in this Land Theo. The king allowed them victum vestitum parce ex rebus proprijs meate drink and raiment out of their liuings though sparefully in respect of their former and vsuall excesse the rest hee kept in his hands till they discharged that function for which they were indowed with so liberal recompence Pâ—i You can not blame them Theo. Hee that perfourmeth a wicked interdict is to be blamed as well as he that commaundeth it Phi. This was not wicked Theo. There could be no wickeder The prohibition of publike praier and restrainct of the worde and Sacraments throughout the Realme is rather a dishonour to God and an iniurie to the faith than a seemely sentence for a christian Bishop You can neither shew vs warrant for it in the Scriptures nor example of it in the church of God for a thowsand yeares They did excommunicate persons not places they thrust not the innocent into the same extremitie with the nocent as you do much lesse did they prohibite God to be serued in the church his Sacraments to be ministred his word to bee preached which the Turkes do not offer where they conquere and Satan himselfe can wish no better increase of his kingdome than this horrible desolation of all those meanes that God hath appointed to saue the soules of men Phi. Then let them be obedient to their Bishops Theo. You can not say the people were disobedient but onely the king why then shoulde they be restrained from seruing God and stand in danger of euerlasting destruction which transgressed not Phi. Let them bee earnest with their king to yeelde Theo. And what if hee will not though they be neuer so earnest Phi. Let them be ready to compell him when they be required so to doe by their Bishops Theo. You hit the nayle right on the head Your generall debarring of diuine seruice throughout a Realme was nothing else but an Antichristian Policie to set the people in a discontent and to make them the readier to rebell against their Princes for whose sakes they be thus put in the high way to perish And therefore the clergie men that did execute and fulfill such an interdict were partakers of the same wickednesse with the pronouncers and by no reason can it bee counted cruelty in the king to take from them their ecclesiasticall promotions so long as they wickedly ceased from their ecclesiasticall functions by this or any other like interdict This was all the persecution and rebellion that king Iohn might iustly bee charged with and yet the Pope by the counsell of his cardinals and Bishops sententially defined that he should be deposed from his throne and an other placed by the Popes procurement that
should bee worthier And for the execution of this sentence the Pope wrote to Philip the most mightie king of Fraunce that in the remission of all his sinnes hee should vndertake this matter and after the expulsion of king Iohn hee and his heires for euer should bee rightfull â— owners of the kingdom of England He wrote likewise to al the Nobles Captaines soldiers of diuerse Nations that they should crossigne themselues to the deposing of the king of England and following the king of Fraunce their leader in this viage reuenge the iniurie of the vniuersall church Thus your holy father set kinges togither by the eares for the remissâ—on of their sinnes and turned the warfare that was prouided against the Turke â—o pursue his priuate quarels with christian Princes like the Prince of darkenesse giueth kingdoms that bee none of his to them and their heires foreuer And your blessed Bishops of Canterburie London and Elie that first made sute at Rome to haue this impietie decreed against their Prince in their owne persons to shew their christian and obedient dispositions plied the king of France other Potentates to hasten them with al hostilitie towards this land and would needes be both the messengers and ringleaders in that action The next yeare Stephen of Canterburie William of London and Elias of Elie returned from the court of Rome gathering a Councel on the other side of the Sea solemnly published the iudgement that was giuen against the king of England in the presence of the French king and his Bishops and his clergie and communaltie That done they inioyned the king of France and all the rest on the behalfe of the Pope for the remission of their sinnes that they all ioyning togither shoulde inuade the Realme of England in hostile manner and thrust king Iohn from his throne and substitute a worthier by the Apostolike authoritie It was not enough for them vnnaturally to procure this pestilent inuasion against their prince but they themselues must assist it with all their might and be the chiefe doers in it least ages after them should be ignorant how zealous they were for their * backes and bellies against their lawful and soueraigne Magistrate Phi. Being deposed he was no Magistrate Theo. When you * proue the Pope may depose Princes then pronounce king Iohn no Magistrate till you so doe giue vs leaue to tell you that this was a cursed presumption in the Pope and a more cursed rebellion in the Bishops Phi. The Realme of France you see tooke the offer and thereby confessed the Pope might dispose Princes Theo. A kingdome will make men doe much The king of Fraunce was led thereto not with religion but with ambition to get the crowne of England for Lodouike his sonne Where you see the desire which Princes had to inlarge their dominions made them regard the Popes censures against their neighbours which otherwise in themselues they did mightily despise as appeareth by that which fel out not long after betweene Philip the Faire and Boniface the eight Where the king of Fraunce resolutely withstood the Pope with all his interdictions and depositions and vsed his person in the end very coursely as I before haue touched in place where vppon occasion Princes to serue their turnes and to be reuenged of their enimies haue oftentimes backed and inforced the Popes iudiciall sentence against others which corrupt affection to man the Popes processe when it made for their purpose god hath punished in them by making him their master whom for lucre they serued as long as they gained By the enuie and enmity of Princes one against an other not by the lawes of God or examples of Christs church hath the Pope gotten the mastery of all Princes and so long as they wil inuade ech other at his teasing they shall neuer be free from his yoke By their helpe he became of a Bishop vnder them to be a Prince with them and by their dissentions of a Prince with them he is now Lord ouer them Take king Iohn for a paterne Had not the French king in hatred of king Iohn and hope of the crowne bin willing to heare of this match and wagered his men and mony for that prize the king of England had easily forced the Pope to some reasonable order But nowe seeing the whole Realme of Fraunce was in armes against him and his owne Lande likely to bee diuided within it selfe what maruell if he accepted rather any conditions at the Popes hands thaÌ„ he would suffer strangers that gaped after his kingdom to deuoure it Phi. Hee did wisely to submit himselfe hee had otherwise lost both rule life Theo. The Pope did as wickedly not to content himselfe with the kings submission and restitution of all that was detained but with a fine deuise to circumuent both parts and to get the kingdom for himselfe and his successors which was promised before to the French king and his heires Such cunning your holy father hath to set others to beat the bushe whiles hee doeth catch the birdes The king of Fraunce was led in a string to muster his men to rigge his shippes to bestow aboue threescore thowsande poundes for the preparation of the warre and was tolde hee shoulde haue for his labour pardon of all his sinnes forsooth and the crowne of England to him and to his for euer without faile when al was in readinesse and they waited nothing now but the French kings comming to go with the armie the Popes Legate stepped ouer before and shewed king Iohn what a power was leuied against him and how many of his own Nobles had purposed to forsake him and wanne him rather to holde his kingdome in fee farme of the Bishop of Rome for an easie rent than to leaue it a pray to the French king his people who would egerly spoile him of al. Upon which aduise the king consented to receiue the Archbishop and the rest of the exiles in peace to restore that to them which hee had seased of their liuinges to his vse to resigne his Crowne into the Popes handes and to take it againe as his liege man Secundary for a thowsand marke sterling by the yeare This done the Legate sayled back sent home the Bishops discharged the armie prohibited the French king to proceede any farther for so much as the king of England was newely become a tenant to the church of Rome With this sleight the Pope caught the crowne of England neither as I thinke was there euer any kingdome purchased with lesse charge and more speede thaÌ„ this was by the Pope Philand If the King woulde resigne it why shoulde not the Pope receiue it And in my conceit it was safer for the King to fall into the Popes handes to be rented than into the French Kinges to be spoiled Theo. That conceit which you speake of made the King of England content to be
the Popes vasall Phi. Better so than worse Better farmer to the Pope than prisoner to the French and in that offer to my iudgement the Pope shewed fauour to king Iohn Theo. Such fauour a thiefe sheweth when he cutteth off both hands and letteth the head stand Phi. Compare you the Pope to a theefe Theo. I did him no wrâ—ng if I shoulde except you thinke it lesse sinne to robbe a King of his Crowne than an other man of his goods Phi. The King was content and so long it could be no robbery Theo. So is any man by the high wayes side content rather to yeelde his purse than loose his life and yet that is fellonie Phi. What right hath a theefe to an other mans purse Theo. As much as the Pope had to the Crowne of England when he forced King Iohn to yeeld it Phi. Of that we will not dispute Theo. You should but shame your selues if you did Phi. But since that surrender he hath better title to this Realme Theo. No more than he had before King Iohn was borne and that was none at all Phi. The whole Realme of England with that of Ireland with all their right and appertinentes were giuen to Innocentius and his Catholike successours and the king bound his heires and after commers for euer to doe homage and fealtie to the Bishop of Rome Theo. A faire paire of indentures but somewhat too short to conuey a Kingdom The King by an oth might make himselfe thrall during his life as perhaps he did but tie his Realme crowne to that perpetuall bondage by his single deede or chart hee could not It is wel knowen the Kinges of this Realme can not doe lesse thinges than the selling or giuing of their crownes away without the consent of their nobles commons Phi. He had the consent of his Barons Theo. That is not true The deed saith with coÌ„mon counsel or aduise of our Barons meaning such as were then by chaunce about him at Douer but the most part of his Barons detested that act and the Kinges that came after him neuer tooke them-selues bound in honour law nor conscience to respect that priuate submission of their predecessour Phi. May not a King subiect his Realme to whome hee will Theo. I thinke Lawyers will say no as well as diuines sure I am the Barons of this Realme thought no. For when the Popes Legate spake to the French king that his sonne might not disquiet king Iohn being now fendarie to the church of Rome the king of Fraunce answered The kingdom of England neither was is nor shall be S. Peters patrimonie No king nor Prince can make away his Realme without the assent of his Barons that are bound to defende the Realme and if the Pope goe on to vphold this errour he giueth a most pernicious example to all kingdomes Then all the Nobles of England for to Fraunce were they fled to accompanie their new king whome they had chosen in king Iohns place with one voice cried they would stand to maintaine this article euen with the losse of their liues that a king or prince caÌ„not at his pleasure giue or subiect his kingdome to any other to make the Nobles of his Realm seruants So that his Barons neither consented he should nor liked that he did subiect his realm to the Bishop of Rome so far were they from consenting that in words they reuiled in deedes resisted both the king the Pope and vtterly despicing the curses and comminations that came from Rome they brought in Lodouike the French kings sonne to take the crown of England from the Popes lease For when the Pope had sent first a generall and after a speciall excommunication to curse them by name that went about to take the kingdom from his vasal They said euery one of them that those buls were of no force chiefly for that the ordering of temporall affaires did not appertaine to the pope since the Lord gaue Peter his successors no power but to dispose Church matters Why theÌ„ said they doth the insatiable greedines of Romanes encroach vpon vs What haue the Bishops of Rome to do with our wars Behold they wil be the successours of Constantine not of Peter And in somwhat homely termes out vpon such shriueled ribalds as are neither valiant nor liberal yet will rule the whole world by their excommunications like ignoble vsurers and Simonistes as they are Euen so the Barons Wo be to thee the outcast of kings the abomination of English princes coÌ„fusion of English nobilitie Alas England England til this time the Queene of Prouinces but now in subiection and vnder the rule of base seruants and strangers where as nothing is viler than to be in seruitude to a seruant We reade that other kinges and princes haue striued euen vnto death for the libertie of their Landes but thou Iohn of mourneful memorie to al ages hast deuised and contriued that thy Realme being anciently free should become bound and thy selfe of a most free king a seruile tributary farmour vassall And of thee O Pope what shall we say which shouldest shine to the world as the father of holynes the myrror of godlines the tutor of righteousnes keeper of truth that thou consentest commeÌ„dest defendest such an one But for this cause doest thou maintaine the waster of English wealth and extinguisher of English nobilitie depending on thee that all may be plunged into the gulfe of Romish auarice This was the Barons complaint against king Iohn for intiteling the Pope to the crown of England though they added other things as occasions to the warres called the Barons warres I meane the lawes liberties of king Edward yet this was the ground of their grief as you may collect by their words this respect made them refuse their king and elect an other and neuer leaue pursuing him till they brought him to his end And as for the kings that came after him set his own sonne aside who to make himselfe strong against Lodouike that possessed halfe this Realme did homage to the church of Rome for his kingdome and tooke an oth for the payment of the thowsand markes granted by his father thereby to continue the Popes censures against all those that affected his crown or molested his Land not one of them euer recognised this subiection or represented this yearly pension to the Bishop of Rome but kept him off at slaues end from infringing the roialties of the crowne oppressing the liberties of the Lande more than any Realme christian of the West parts that we read Insomuch that Polydore no meane aduocate of your side concludeth this subiection and pension touched personally king Iohn and not his successours that should raigne after him By reason of king Iohns deliuering his Crowne into the Legates handes receiuing it againe as his gift It is a fame saith
Polydore that king Iohn desirous to eternise the memorie of this good turne made himselfe beneficiarie to the Bishop of Rome with this prouiso that the kings of England after that should receiue the right of their crowne only from the Pope But the kings that followed neuer obserued this forme neither do the Chronicles of England report any such submission Wherfore it is certain that all those burdens were laid on the person of king Iohn that offended and not on his successors Phi. For heresie George king of Boemland was excommunicated and thereupon by the forces of the king of Hungarie at length actually depriued Theo. For the mislike of your Romane vanities your holy father plaied his part with George king of Boemland 1466. yeares after Christ as he had done with other Princes before deiecting him from his kingdome by presumptuous iudgement at Rome and inticing the Princes that were neighbours in hope of his kingdom to inuade him with armes to ioine with the Bohemians that rebelled against him Which offer Mathias king of Hungary first imbraced a proud vnthankfull crafty fraudulent ambitious man as Frederike the 3. then Emperor of Rome complained of him in his embassage to Cazimire king of Pole might well appeare by his behauior to king George who had him in hold when he was chosen king of Hungarie might haue depriued him both of kingdom life would not but yet that inhumane aspiring head of his did not preuaile For George persisted died king of Bohemia notwtstanding the Popes curses Mathias forces and after his death was Vladislaus Cazimires sonne chosen to the kingdome and not onely helde it in spite of Mathias and the Popes grant to him none else but also succeeded Mathias in the kingdom of Hungarie Phi. Yet the Pope gaue the kingdom of Bohemia to Mathias Theo. Hee might haue giuen him the kingdom of Constantinople or Persia with as much right as he did this but howe that gift was esteemed euen by those that otherwise depended on the church of Rome the choice of a new and the next king did declare Phi. Also Iohn Albert had halfe his kingdom of Nauarre taken from him by Ferdinandus surnamed Catholicus of Aragon for that he gaue aid to Lewes the 12. being excommunicated by Iulius the second Theo. The driftes of Princes intertaining the Popes Buls and admitting his keyes so farre as they make for their profit do not proue the Popes power to be good or their persons states to be subiect to his censures by Gods Law Philip the 2. king of Fraunce was earnest to execute the Popes Bull against king Iohn spared no cost for the preparation of the warre The cause was he hoped to get the Crowne of England for his paines but Lodouike his sonne Philip the 4. this Lewes whom you name neither reuerenced nor regarded the Popes Buls which made against them but shewed a manifest contempt of his censures with open Edicts seuered themselues their people from his obedience So Ferdinand king of Spaine when by violent suddain inuasion he had gotten that part of Nauarre which bordered vpon him was content for the keeping of it to pretend the Popes Bul against Lewes the 12. but Charles the fift the next king of Spaine could let his soldiers surprise Rome and desposse it in most cruel maner abusing illuding the Priests Nonnes Bishops Cardinals with all military despites furies keepe the Pope fast lockt in prison till he paied 400000. pounds for his ransome and consented to such other conditions as they listed to prescribe Phi. It was not Charles wil that Rome should be sacked or the Pope thus handled it was the Germanes rage for want of pay Theo. Charles coulde doe litle if he could not dissemble He neither rebuked his armie nor inlarged the Pope nor recompensed any part of the Pillage which his soldiers as well Spaniards as Germanes had committed in Rome leauing nothing behinde them that was worthy the taking And so long though his consent did not appeare yet he made his aduantage of their act and secretly supported them by his protraction to take the whole spoile of the citie Phi. The variance betweene the Pope Charles was for temporal matters Theo. So Lewes the 12. contended with Iulius the 2. for temporall dominion therefore the king of Nauarre ayding the French king in a ciuill quarell was nothing so much to be blamed as Charles but the trueth is Ferdinand had cast his eyes on that kingdom confining so neere lying so commodious the ancient desire of the kings of Spaine to be Lords of Nauarre being wel knowen as Guicciardin confesseth for that cause when he could deuise no better title he took hold of the Popes Bul colouring his iniurious ambitioÌ„ with a semblaÌ„ce of Romish deuotion Phi. It is holden at this day by the same right Theo. This was no right other I knowe none the king of Spaine hath to it besides the sword by the which it was gotten not yet 73. yeares since Phi. Wil you dispute his title Theo. I am not so curious in an other mans common wealth let the Princes whom it concerneth trie their own titles yet this is certaine that neither the kings of England France nor Spaine would suffer the Pope to dispose their kingdoms or any part of their dominions against their likings Phi. For like causes and namely for that he was vehemently suspected of the murther of the blessed Bishop S. Thomas of Canterbury was Henrie the second driuen by Alexander the third to order and penance Theo. The strife betweene the king Thomas Becket then Archbishop of CaÌ„terburie is reported before not now to be iterated The lawes liberties of the church for the which he resisted the king were nothing else but the rescuing of malefactors if they were Clerkes from due punishmeÌ„t exempting themselues from the kings subiection which be quarels of their own nature wicked irreligious therefore well you may call him BLESSED because you be consorted in the same quarell with him against God your Prince otherwise his pride was intolerable his contention with the king detestable his end miserable Phi. Are you not ashamed to staine the glory of that worthy Martyr Theo. First proue him an innocent before you make him a Martyr Phi. Who euer charged him with any crime Theo. The very cause he stood in was crime enough besides his resisting the prince which S. Paul pronounceth to be damnable Phi. Do you make it damnable to defende the liberties of the church Theo. To dreame that the statelines of Popes and licentiousnes of Priests was the perfection happines of Christs church and in that leâ—de conceit to neglect your othes resist the powers which God hath established is a triple damnation Phi. That we do not Theo. That he
did whom you cal a blessed bishop for his labor your selues do worse For you be not cōtent to resist as he did by wilfull departing the Realm you take weapon in hand to depose the Prince terme it iust honorable warre to rebell against a lawfull Magistrate which impiety he did not declare in act though in heart perhaps he did not abhor it But omit that he ment and come to that hee did except you shew what one thing in those ancient lawes of the crowne to which the Archbishop had expresly sworne was repugnant to the word of God or office of a christian Prince we conclude your blessed Bishop and Canterburie Saint to be a shameful defender of wickednesse an open breaker of his oth and a proude impugner of the sword which God hath authorized as the Scripture teacheth And albeit wee like not the maner of his death that priuate men shoulde vse the sword which is deliuered vnto princes yet the cause for which he withstood the king was enormous impious dying in that though his death were violent he could be no martyr Phi. You be loth to haue him a martyr he was so far both frō your opinion in this point religion otherwise but yet he died in the defence of the Catholike church therefore we iustly count him blessed Theo. Hee died not in defence of the church he stoode stifly for the Popes pride and gaine and for the impunitie of malefactours among the Clergie which thinges no way touch the true lawes or liberties of Christes church And therefore you must either proue that clergie men are not subiect to the Princes sword for heinous offences which is most false and that appeales from all places must bee made to the Bishop of Rome which you shall neuer do or else it is euident that Thomas Becket deserued rather the reward of a traytor than the honour of a Martyr these two being the principall causes for which he resisted the king whiles hee liued and was canonized after he was murdered Phi. The church of Rome liked and allowed of his doings though you doe not Theo. She had good reason so to do He gaue his life for the maintenance of her wealth and ease and therefore if shee shoulde not esteeme him shee were to blame but this was no quarell for a christian Bishop to spend his blood in The due correction of offenders by the temporal sworde though they were clergie-men and diligent execution of iustice at home without running to Rome when either part was disposed to vexe the other were lawfull and wholesome preceptes of the kinges of this Realme and so long as the resistance made by the Archbishop against the king was sinfull and seditious consequently the state he stood in damnable though the death he suffered were wrongfull as not proceeding orderly from a magistrate but furiously inflicted by some that were offended to see a Bishop brest a king in so vile a cause Phi. The king himselfe in the end was driuen to order and penance Theo. It was easie for you when not only his neighbours but his owne son rose in armes against him to winne his consent to any thing By warres and inuasions of Realme vpon Realme by defection of subiects from their soueraignes by the rebellion of children against their parentes your cunning hath beene to driue Princes to order and keepe them in awe but that doth not iustifie your vnnaturall and vnchristian tumults to force them to your bent We dispute not whether of late you haue so done but whether of right you may so doe wee see the meanes which Antichrist hath vsed to aduance his kingdom but those we say be neither agreeable to the sacred scriptures nor to the course of Christs church in former ages they be late deuises practises of Popes to exalt themselues aboue the highest the iustice of God preparing that plague for the sinnes of men and dissention of Princes which should haue ioyned togither to succour his truth safegard his church by repressing the Popes pride driuing him to Christian integritie and modesty and would not Wherefore God gaue them ouer into his hands that he should tread on their necks play with their crownes as pleased himselfe and they thinke it some great honor and preferment to kisse his feete hold his bridle whiles he gets to horsebacke Phi. A number of the like examples mo we might recite of our Country of the christian world whereby not only the practise of the church in al ages may be seene but also catholike men warranted that they be no traitors nor hold assertions treasonable false or vndutiful in answering or beleeuing that for heresie or such like notorious wickednesse a Prince otherwise lawfull and annointed may be excommunicated deposed forsaken or resisted by the warrant of holy churches iudgement and censure Theo. From the conquest to King Henrie the eight there was no Prince of this Land deposed by the Pope but only King Iohn Deposition was offered to Philip the fourth and Lewes the twelfth Kinges of Fraunce but they were so farre from taking it that they withdrewe their whole Realme from the Popes obedience and ouerreached your holy Father with his owne practise Philip by the general consent of his Nobles and Bishoppes not onely despised the Popes sentence of depriuation against him but requited him with the like and to tame his pride tooke him prisoner and made him end his life for very griefe of hart within sixe weekes after Thus sayth Platina died Bonifacius hee that went about rather to strike a terrour into Emperours kings Princes and Nations than to plant religion in them and chalenged to giue and take kingdomes and to aduaunce and debase men at his plasure And so saith Gaguinus This ende of his life had Bonifacius the contemner of all men who not remembring the precepts of Christ tooke vpon him to dispose crownes and depriue kinges as hee sawe cause whereas hee supplieth his roome on earth whose kingdō is not of this world nor in earthly things but in heauenly and gate the Popedome by deceit and vngodly meanes and kept his predecessour in prison so long as he liued from whom he wrested that dignity This example you would not alleadge because you sawe the whole Realme of Fraunce stoode with Philip against Bonifacius that the Pope had no right to depose Princes Lewes the twelft in a Councel at Tours had the resolution of al the French Bishops that he might surcease from the Popes obedience and contemne his vniust censures and had not Maximilian somwhat slacked and Iulius in the meane time died the Pope himselfe had bin depriued of his triple crowne in the Councell of Pisa which was indicted by the Prelates of Germanie and Frāce at the instaunce and pursuite of Lodouike The Bishops of Nations assembled and decreed Iulius to be cited Vpon the
compasse of king Edward the thirdes statute for ayding and comforting the Queenes enemies within the realme or elsewhere Phi. You must vnderstand that wee neuer will any man to take armes but for the catholique fayth and at the commaundement of the supreme magistrate against one that was but is no Prince as being iustly deposed Theo. And you must vnderstand that the statute of Edward the third doeth neither allowe the Pope to depose the Prince nor licence the subiect to beare armes for religion against his soueraigne and therefore your warres for religion be trayterous insurrections against the Prince by the Lawes of Edward the third notwithstanding your newe found glozes that you first depose them and after resist them and pursue them with armes by the warrant of holy Churches iudgement and censure Phi. Edward the third neuer ment that to obey the Pope aboue the prince should bee treason Theo. It is not for you now to appoint his meaning His woordes are that to giue ayde or comfort to the Kings enemies and such as leuied warres against him in his realme were it the Pope the French King or whom ye will shoulde bee treason Hee had before his eyes the example of King Iohn vpon whome the Pope set the King of France with all his power for not obeying his censures from Rome he knew hee could not bee defeated of his Crowne without warre and so long as his owne subiects were trustie to him hee feared not the French nor any other that should inuade him To make himselfe therefore assured of his owne people against all men Spanish Scottish French Romish or any by whome the deede might bee doone and yet to decline the enuie of naming the Pope hee with his whole realme by their publique lawe without exception of Person or cause made it treason to giue ayde or comfort within the realme or else where to any whatsoeuer that should warre vpon the king perceiuing the generall would include the Pope or any other that hee shoulde incite against the King as well as if they were distinctly named Phi. You suppose the Prince and the people did secretly conspire against the Pope where as in those dayes they did honour him as the Soueraigne father and Pastour of their soules Theo. Howsoeuer they embraced the religion which hee professed it is euident the King and the whole realme in open Parliament made a generall consociation to repell prouisions and impetrations of ecclesiasticall dignities and offices from Rome and bound them-selues eche to other with all their might in common to withstande citations suspencions excommunications and censures comming from that Consistorie for matters decided in the Kings Courts or pertinent to the Lawes and royall liberties of this Realme and the commons did not sticke in parliament likewise to promise King Richarde the second to stand with him in all cases attempted by the Bishop of Rome against him his Crowne and his Regalitie in all points to liue and die The consociation against the procurers bringers and executours of prohibited processe from Rome was this The King the Prelates Dukes Earles Barons Nobles and other Commons Clerks and Lay people be bound by this present ordinance to aide comfort and counsel the one and the other as often as shall neede and by all the best meanes that may bee made of word and of deede to impeach such offendours and to resist their enterprises and without suffering them to inhabite abide or passe by their Seignories possessions landes iurisdictions or places and be bound to keep defend the one and the other from al damage villanie and reproofe as they should do their owne persons and for their deed and businesse and by such manner and as farreforth as such prosecutions or processe were made or attempted against them in especiall generall or in common The complainct and offer of the Commons to king Richard was this Of late diuers processes be made by our holy father the Bishop of Rome and censures of excommunication vpon certaine Bishops of England because they haue made execution of the kings commandements notwithstanding processe from the Court of Rome for the contrarie to the open disherison of the Crowne and destruction of our Soueraigne Lord the King his Law all his Realme so as the Crowne of England which hath beene so free at al times that it hath beene in subiection to no realme but immediately subiect to God and to none other in all things touching the regalitie of the same Crowne should be submitted to the Bishop of Rome and the Lawes and statutes of the realme by him defeated and destroied at his will in perpetual destruction of the king our soueraigne Lord his Crown and regalitie and of al his realme which God defend Wherefore they al the liege commons of the same realme will be with our sayd Soueraigne Lorde the King and his saide Crown and his regalitie in the cases aforesaide and in all other cases attempted against him his crowne and his regalitie in al points to liue and to die This was the auncient loue and faith of the Commons of this Land toward their Princes against the Bishop of Rome euen by name and this if you were true English or good Christian men you would rather exhort the people vnto than as you doe wish them to take weapon in hand to pull the Prince from her throne because the Bishop of Rome hath sent out his calues to disclaime her Phi. Euer sith the said S. Gregories time or thereabout all Kings in Christendome speciállie those of Spaine Fraunce Pole and England take an oth vppon the holy Euangelistes at their Coronation to keepe and defend the Catholike faith and ours of England expresly to maintaine also the priuileges and liberties of the Church and Clergie giuen by King Edward the confessour and other faithful Kings their auncestors Theo. That Kinges should take an othe to defende the Catholique fayth assist the Church of Christ wee doe not repine onely your collection is foolish if you thinke that by Catholique fayth is by and by ment your late Romish fayth or that the church can haue no priuileges nor liberties except the Pope may deale and distribute kingdomes to his liking The Princes othe in the Lawes of King Edwarde the confessour was to keepe nourish maintaine and gouerne the holy Church of his kingdome with all integritie and libertie according to the constitutions of his Fathers and predecessours But in our dayes you will not suffer the Prince to gouerne the Church of her kingdome and the Church libertie which you seeke for is a wicked impunitie for sinne and a plaine contempt of all Christian authoritie Phi. S. Thomas of Canterburie putteth his Soueraigne Henry the seconde in memorie thereof both often in speach and expressely in an epistle written to him in these woordes Memores sitis confessionis qâ—am fecistis posuistis super altare apud
their eyes which all the godly beleeue with their heartes If oyle bee wanting they bee perfect Magistrates notwithstanding and Gods annointed as well as if they were inoyled And so for the person of the Bishoppe that doeth annoynt them It is fittest it be done by the highest but yet if they can not or will not any Bishoppe may perfourme it Authoritie to condition with Princes at the tyme of their coronation the Bishoppe hath none hee is faythfully to declare what GOD requireth at the handes of Princes not in religion onely but in rewarding vertue reuenging sinne relieuing the poore and innocent repressing the violent procuring peace and doing iustice throughout their Realmes and that if they faile in any of these God will not faile seuerely to visite the breach of his Lawe and contempt of their callings but yet hee hath no commission to denounce them depriued if they misse in some or all of these dueties much lesse to drawe Indentures betweene God and Princes conteyning the forfeiture of their crownes with a clause for the Pope and no man else to reenter if they keepe not couenants Phi. You graunt they bee bounde to God to defend the Church and true Religion Theo. Euen so bee they bound to doe those other thinges which I before rehearsed The couenaunt which God made with the Prince of his people was to feare the Lorde his God and to keepe not some but all the wordes of his Law The othe which the Kinges of Englande take hath many thinges besides the defence of the fayth and the Church The King shall feare God and loue him aboue all things and keepe gods precepts through his whole kingdome Hee shall aduance good Lawes and approoued customes and banish all euill Lawes from his kingdome Hee shal doe right iudgement in his realme and maintaine iustice by the counsell of his Nobles with many other points there specified All these thinges the King in his owne person shall sweare beholding and touching the holy Gospel in the presence of the people the Priestes and the Clergie before hee bee crowned by the Archbishoppes and Bishoppes of his Realme Shal a king bee deposed if hee reuolt as you call it from his promise and othe in any of these points Phi. Heresie and infidelitie tend directly to the perdition of the common-wealth and the soules of their subiects and notoriously to the annoyance of the Church true Religion Theoph. Wee compare not vices but discusse the vitiousnes of your conclusion Kinges you say couenant with GOD at their annointing That othe and promise if they breake with God the people you adde may and by order of Christs supreme minister their chiefe Pastor in earth must needes breake with them If by BREAKING you ment not obeying them in those particular cases which tend to the defacing of Gods trueth your illation were not much amisse for in all things wee must obey God rather than man but by BREAKING you vnderstand an vtter refusing of obedience in all other cases and a violent remoouing them from their crownes which we say is not lawfull for Pastor nor people to atteÌ„pt against princes though they answere not their duties to God in euerie point They couenant at the same time and with the same oth the keeping and obseruing of the whole lawe of God and yet was there neuer any man so brainsicke as to defend that Princes for euerie neglect and offence against the Law should be deposed Phi. Heresie is one of the greatest breaches of Gods Law Theo. To hold the truth of God in manifest and knowen vnrighteousnes without repentance is a greater impietie than ignorantly to be deceiued in some points of religion but we stand not on the degrees of sinnes which God will reuenge from the greatest to the smallest as much as on the person which may do it and the warrant whereby it must be done We deny that Princes haue any superiour and ordinarie Iudge to heare and determine the right of their Crownes Wee deny that God hath licenced any man to depose them and pronounce them no Princes The sonne cannot desherit his father nor the seruant countermaund his master by the lawes of God and nature be the father and master neuer so wicked Princes haue farre greater honour and power ouer subiects than any man can haue ouer sonnes and seruantes They haue power ouer goods lands bodies and liues which no priuat man may chalenge They be fathers of our Countries to the which we be nearer bound by the very confession of Ethnikes than to the fathers of our flesh Howe then by Gods law should subiects depose their Princes to whom in most euident woords they must bee subiect for conscience sake though they bee tyrauntes and Infidels And if the subiects them-selues haue no such power what haue strangers to meddle or make with their Crownes Phi. Doe you count the Pope a straunger to Christian Princes Theo. Would God he were not woorse euen a mortall and cruell enimie to al that bee Godlie He was a subiect vnder them eight hundreth yeares and vpwarde he after by sedition and vsurpation grewe to bee a sâ—ate amongest them a Superiour ouer them in causes concerning their Crownes and states you shall neuer prooue him to bee For a thousand yeares he durst offer no such thing these last fiue hundreth hee often assayed it and was as often repelled from it by factions conspiracies excommunications and rebellions hee molested and grieued some of them as I haue shewed but from the ascention of our Lorde and Sauiour to this present day neuer Prince Christian did yeeld and acknowledge any such power in the Pope and those that seemed in their neighbours harmes somewhat to regard his doings for an aduauntage when the case concerned them-selues most boldlie reiected his iudgements Phi. By the fall of the King from the faith the danger is so euident and ineuitable that GOD had not sufficientlie prouided for our saluation and the preseruation of his Church and holie Lawes if there were no way to depriue or restraine Apostata Princes Theo. You make vs many worthy reasons for the depriuation of Princes but of all others this is the cheifest If there were no way to depriue Princes God hath not say you sufficiently prouided for our saluation and the preseruation of his Church Euen so one of your owne fellowes saide before you of the verie same poinâ—e Non viderâ—tur Dominus discretus fuisse vt cum reuerentia â—ius loquar c. The Lorde by his leaue should haue seemed scant discreete except hee had left one such Vicar behind him as might doe all things to witte depose Emperours and all other Princes Unlesse your rebellious humours may take place you stick not to charge the sonne of God with lack of discretion negligence but looke better about you ye blasphemous mouths you shall see that the Church of God is purest when
freshly approue and practise The correction that is here laide on you you euery where amplifie with wordes of the highest and hoattest degree as if it were tyranny to touche the hemmes of your garmentes notwithstanding you seeke to pull the Crowne from the Princes head and teach others to treadde the same path by your example but such is your daintinesse that you offering others fier and sword neuer thinke it sharp enough And tasting no quicker discipline with vs for twentie yeres than the losse of two shillings by the weeke or some restraint of libertie crie out of the greatest persecution and tribulation that euer was since the Gothes and Vandals times We speake of things that are in the eyes and eares of al men what punishment did the Lawes of this realme the first twenty yeres of her maiesties raigne inflict to any recusant for religion but either imprisonment or amercement Which was as easie as you coulde wish till within these sixe or seuen yeeres by the facilitie of the Lawe which you despised your attempts grewe so daungerous that the Prince was forced for the repressing of your audacious aduenture to temper her Lawes with more seueritie You must thanke your selues therefore if this latter affliction seeme some-what heauier till you gaue the onset to put the bull in execution which depriued her highnes of the crowne you were vsed with as much mercy and clemencie as was possible for a Christian prince to afford vnruly subiects whatsoeuer hath since fallen out must bee imputed not to her maiesties inclination whereof you had so good proofe for twenty yeeres but to your wicked and vndutifull affection that were perplexed to see her liue and gouerne in so long happynesse and therefore assayed to shorten her reigne Philand You neuer founde that affection in any Catholike Theoph. Wee neede not search your affections for it you haue made it an open point of your fayth which no Catholique as you teach must denie though the affirming of it shoulde cost him his life Philand What doe wee teach Theo. That if the Pope say the woorde none of your Catholiques within this Realme must obey or accompt her Maiestie for Queene of Englande And because you woulde bee sure to roote this perswasion in the heartes of your adherentes you deliuer it them as a part of their fayth which they must auouche and much more execute notwithstanding any daunger of death that may bee offered Philand Where doe wee teach so Theoph. In the cases of conscience wherewith you furnished the Iesuites that came into Englande There to the 55. article when you bee asked whether notwithstanding the bull of Pius the fifth that was giuen out or any bull that the Bishoppe of Rome can hereafter giue foorth all Catholikes bee bounde to yeelde obedience fayth and loyaltie to Queene Elizabeth as to their lawfull Prince and Soueraigne you make this resolution Qui hoc modo interrogat illud quaerit an id potuerit S. Pontifex facere Cui quaestioni quid debeat Catholicus respondere clarius est quà m vt a me hic explicetur Sirogatur ergo Catholicus credis Romanum Pontificem Elizabetham potuisse exauthorare respondebit non obstante quouis metu mortis credo Quaestio enim haec ad fidem spectat exigit confessionem fidei Hee that demaundeth this question asketh in effect whether the Pope might do it or no. To the which demand what a catholik ought to answere it is plainer than that I need here to explicate If therfore a catholike be asked do you beleeue the Bishoppe of Rome may depriue Queene Elizabeth of her crowne He must answere not regarding any danger of death I beleeue hee may For this question is a point of fayth and requireth the confession of our fayth And your selfe in your defence of English Catholiks say This was the right and power of Saint Gregorie to depriue Princes and this hath beene the fayth of Christian men euer sith our Countrie was conuerted Why then are you so angrie that Iesuites should bee counted traytours since you make treason to be a point of your fayth and religion And howe iust cause hath the Prince to banish you her land vnder payne of death when you doe with this cunning inueighle her subiects to rebell against her Phi. It is no treason to say the Pope may depose Princes Theo. Much lesse is it a poynt of Christian fayth that the Pope may depriue the Queene of her Crowne as you falsly absurdly and traiterously teach Phi. The Pope receiued that power from Christ. Theo. If you did prooue it you had some colour to beleeue it but nowe you require all Catholikes boldly to put that into their Creede which the Pope himselfe for a thousand yeeres was ashamed to professe Phi. Hath hee not the keyes of the kingdome of heauen Theo. But you must prooue hee hath the keyes of all earthly kingdomes Phi. Hee may binde and loose Theo. Sinnes hee may where hee hath charge but no where Scepters Phi. If Princes persist in sinne hee may take their Scepters from them Theo. That is it which all this while you were to prooue you teach that for religion which the woorde of GOD reiecteth for rebellion you imbrace it as pietie which the Church of Christ abhorred as iniquitie Giue to Caesar sayth the sonne of God the thinges which are Caesars The swoorde and scepter are Caesars this therefore is a plaine precept to Peter him-selfe and all other Christians to suffer Caesar to enioy his owne Nowe shewe you an other that you may take from Caesar that which is Caesars When one sayde Master bid my brother diuide the inheritance with mee the Lorde answered man who made mee iudge or diuider ouer you If Christ would not meddle with priuate mens inheritances as being without the compasse of his vocation I pray you who could make the Pope iudge and disposer of Princes crownes Our Sauiour being asked of Pilate what kingdome hee claymed openly auouched my kingdome is not of this world and you by one turne of the keies which he gaue to Peter and the rest of his Apostles would bring all the kingdomes of the woorlde to bee at the Popes appointing S. Augustine assureth Princes by force of these words that they shall not need to feare depriuation of their earthly kingdoms at Christs hands Why enuy you sayth he ye kings Marke enuie not Christ is a king but farre otherwise than you are which sayd my kingdome is not of this world Feare not therfore lest the kingdome of this worlde bee taken from you rather an other kingdome shall bee giuen you and that of heauen where hee is king And so expressely resolueth Kinges ought not to feare lest they loose their kingdome or that their kingdome bee taken from them as wretched Herode feared Which is vtterly against you that make it a point of your fayth for the Pope to take
followeth after sheweth in what sense he tooke the word supreme At this day sayth he where Poperie continueth howe many are there which lode the king with all the right and power they can that there should be no disputing of religion but this authoritie should rest in the king alone to appoint at his pleasure what hee list and that to stande good without contradiction They that first so highly aduanced king Henry of England were inconsiderate they gaue him supreme power of all thinges and that was it which alway wounded me Then succeede your wordes and withall a particular exemplication howe Steuen Gardiner alleaged and constred the Kings stile in Germanie That Iuggler which after was Chauncelour I meane the Bishop of Winchester when hee was at Rentzburge neither would stande to reason the matter nor greatly cared for any testimonies of the scriptures but said it was at the kinges discretion to abrogate that which was in vse appoint new He said the king might forbid priests mariage the king might barre the people from the cup in the Lordes supper the king might determine this or that in his kingdome And why Forsooth the king had supreme power This sacrilege hath taken hold on vs in Germanie whiles Princes think they cannot raign except they abolish al the authoritie of the church be thēselues supreme Iudges as wel in doctrin as in al spirituall regiment This was the sense which Caluin affirmed to bee sacrilegious and blasphemous for Princes to professe them-selues supreme Iudges of Doctrine and discipline and in deede it is the blasphemie which all godly heartes reiect and abomine in the Bishoppe of Rome Neither did King Henry take any such thing on him for ought that wee can learne But this was Gardiners Stratageme to conuey the reproche and shame of the sixe articles from himselfe and his fellowes that were the authors of them and to cast it on the kings supreme power Had Caluin been told that supreme was first receiued to declare the Prince to be superior to the Prelats which exempted themselues from the Kings authoritie by their Church liberties and immunities as well as to the Lay men of this realme and not to bee subiect to the Pope who claymed a iurisdiction ouer all Princes and Countries the woorde woulde neuer haue offended him but as this wylye foxe framed his answere when the Germanes communed with him about the matter wee blame not Caluin for mistaking but the Bishop of Winchester for peruerting the kings stile wresting it to that sense which all good men abhorre Phi. Do not you at this day make the Queene supreme Gouernour of al ecclesiasticall doctrine and discipline And what discrepance I pray you between Iudge and Gouernour Theo. You may be Steuen Gardiners scholer you bee so wel trained in his methode and maximes Wee told you long since and often enough if that will serue the prince by her stile doth not chalenge neither do we by our othe giue her highnes power to debate decide or determine any point of fayth or matter of religion much lesse to bee supreme iudge or gouernour of all doctrine and discipline But if in her realme you will haue the assistance of the magistrates swoord to settle the trueth and prohibite error and by wholesome punishments to preuent the disorders of all degrees that authoritie lieth neither in Prelate nor Pope but onely in the Prince and therefore in her Dominions you can neither establish doctrine nor discipline by publike Lawes without her consent This neither Caluin nor the compilers of the Centuries nor any other of sound religion euer did or iustly can mislike onely Iesuites their adherents would faine reserue this power to the Pope in al Christian realmes because they be sure he will allowe and suffer no religion but his owne and so long their profession shall not miscarie Phi. The Centurists say Princes may not bee heads of the Church that primacie is not fit for them Theo. That word if they mislike wee stand not for it The holy Ghost hath inuested the sonne of God with it and therefore reason princes euen for reuerence to him should forbeare the stile which hee first vsed most esteemeth And though some defence might be brought for the word as that which Samuel said to Saul When thou wast litle in thine own sight wast thou not made HEAD of the tribes of Israel For the Lorde annoynted thee king ouer Israel and that which Dauid sayth of himself Thou hast made me HEAD of the heathen and that which Esai saith of the king of Syria THE HEAD of Aram is Damascus and the HEAD of Damascus is Rezni and again the honorable mā he is the HEAD as also S. Paul the man is the womans HEAD Chrysostom not sticking to call certaine women that laboured in the Gospel HEAD OF THE CHVRCH at Philippi and saying of Theodosius the Emperor Summitas caput omnium super terram hominum SVPREME AND HEAD of all mortall men Though these and many like places might bee brought to auouche the worde HEAD yet because that title HEAD OF THE CHVRCH rightly and properly belongeth onely to Christ not to Princes without many mitigations and cautions and head as it is applied to Princes is al one with Supreme for it importeth but the chiefest or highest person of the Church on earth and with the regiment of the Church whereof Christ is head I meane his mysticall bodie Princes haue nothing to doe yea many times they be scant members of it and the Church in each countrie may stand without Princes as in persecution it doth and yet they not headlesse we thinke not good to contend with our brethren for wordes and to greeue their eares with titles first abused by the pope and first reproued in him so long as in matter and meaning there is no discord betwixt vs. Phi. Will you make vs beleeue they mislike nothing but the wordes head of the Church Theo. Yeas they mislike that Princes should mingle trueth with falsehood and temper religion with corruption as their priuate fancies lead them which we mislike no lesse than they This is the scope of our speach say they that it is not lawful for ciuill Magistrates to deuise formes of religion in destruction of the truth and so to reconcile truth and error that they may both be lulled asleepe They may not prescribe religions alone they must not ingender new articles of the faith they must not strangle the trueth with errors and shackle it when it is reueiled that they may let loose the bridle to corruption These be the points which they dislike and we be as farre from approuing any such thing in Princes as you or they Phi. If the Prince establish any religion whatsoeuer it be you must by your oth obey it Theo. We must not rebel and take armes against the prince
when ten yeares after his comming to the crown he was forced to send for direction to Huldath the Prophetesse not finding a man in Iudah that did or could vndertake the charge Phi. These were kinges of the olde Testament and they had the Lawe of God to guide them Theo. Then since christian Princes haue the same Scriptures which they had and also the Gospell of Christ and Apostolike writings to guide them which they had not why should they not in their kingdomes retaine the same power which you see the kings of Iudah had vsed to their immortall praise and ioy Phi. The christian Emperours euer called Councels before they would attempt any thing in Ecclesiasticall matters Theo. What councell had Constantine when with his Princely power he publikely receiued and setled christian religion throughout the world twentie yeares before the fathers met at Nice What councels had Iustinian for all those ecclesiasticall constitutions and orders which he decreed and I haue often repeated What councels had Charles for the church lawes and chapters which he proposed and inioyned as wel to the Pastors as to the people of his Empire Phil. They had instruction by some godly Bishops that were about them Theo. Conference with some Bishops suâ—h as they liked they might haue but councels for these causes they had none In 480. yeares after christian religion was established by christian Lawes I meane from Constantine the first to Constantine the seuenth there were very neere fourtie christian Emperours whose Lawes and actes for ecclesiasticall affaires were infinite and yet in all that time they neuer called but sixe generall Councels and those for the Godhead of the Sonne and the holy Ghost for the two distinct natures and willes in Christ All other pointes of christian doctrine and discipline they receiued established and maintained without ecumenicall councels vpon the priuate instruction of such Bishops and Clerkes as they fauored or trusted Theodosius as I shewed before made his owne choice what faith he would follow and had no man nor meanes to direct him vnto truth but his own prayers vnto God and priuate reading of those sundry confessions that were offered him And when neither Bishops nor Councels could get him to remoue the Arians from their churches Amphilochius alone with his witty behauior aunswere wan him to it For entering the Palace and finding Arcadius the eldest sonne of Theodosius lately designed Emperor and sitting with his father Amphilochius did his dutie to the father and made no account of his son that sate by him Theodosius thinking the Bishop had forgotten himselfe willed him to salute his sonne to whom the Bishoppe replied that which he had done to the father was sufficient for both Whereat when the Emperour began to rage to conâ—â—er the contempt of his sonne for his dishonour the wise Bishoppe inferred wiâ—h a loude voice Art thou so grieued O Emperour to see thy sonne neglected and so much out of pacience with those that reproach him Assure thy selfe then that almighty God hateth the blasphemers of his Sonne and is offended with them as with vngratefull wretches against their Sauiour and deliuerer Had you beene in the primatiue church of Christ you woulde haue gallantly disdained these and other examples of christian kings and Countries conuerted instructed somtimes by Marchaunts sometimes by women most times by the single perswasioÌ„ of one man without al legal means or iudicial proceedings the poore soules of very zeale imbracing the word of life wheÌ„ it was first offered them and neglecting your number of voices consent of Priestes competent courts as friuolous exceptioÌ„s against God dangerous lets to their saluation Frumentius a christian child taken prisoner in India the farther and brought at length by Gods good prouidence to beare some sway in the Realme in the nonage of the king carefully sought for such as were christians among the Romane Merchants and gaue them most free power to haue assemblies in euery place yeelding them whatsoeuer was requisite and exhorting them in sundry places to vse the christian praiers And within short time he built a Church brought it to passe that some of the Indians were instructed in the faith and ioyned with them The king of Iberia neere Pontus when he saw his wife restoared to health by the prayers of a christian captiue and himselfe deliuered out of the suddaine danger that he was in only by thinking and calling on Christ whom the captiue woman named so often to his wife sent for the woman and desired to learne the manner of her religion and promised after that neuer to worship any other God but Christ. The captiue woman taught him as much as a woman might admonished him to build a church and described the forme how it must be done Whereupon the king calling the people of the whole nation together told them what had befallen the Queene and him and taught them the faith and became as it were the Apostle of his nation though hee were not yet baptized The examples of England France other couÌ„tries are innumerable where kings coÌ„monwealths at the preaching of one man haue submitted themselues to the faith of Christ without councels or any Synodal or iudicial proceedings And therefore ech Prince people without these meanes haue lawful power to serue God Christ his Son notwithstanding twentie Bishops as in our case or if you will twentie thowsand Bishops should take exceptious to the Gospell of truth which is nothing else but to waxe mad against God by pretence of humane reason and order Phi. Their examples and yours are not like They receiued the same faith that the church of Christ professed you doe not Theo. They know not what the church of christ ment when they submitted themselues to the faith of Chriâ—â— they respected not the countenaunces of men but the promises of God when they first beleeued And were you not so wedded to the Popes tribunals decrees that you thinke the God of heauen shoulde not preuaile nor commaunde without your allowance you would remember that the church her selâ— was first collected and after increased by Christes Apostles maugre the councelles of Priestes and Courtes of Princes that derided the basenesse and accused the boldnesse of such as would preach Christ without their permission Phi. The Apostles had a iust and lawfull defence for their doinges Theo. What was it Phi. We ought rather to obey God than men Theo. Was that authoritie sufficient for them to withstand the Synodes of Priestes and swordes of Princes Phi. Most sufficient Theo. And the truth of God chaungeth not neither doth his right to commaund against the powers and lawes of al mortal men decay at any time Phi. By no means Theo. Then this must only be the question betwixt vs whether the Prince or the Prelates stoode for that which God commaundeth If the
dipped his hands in his brothers bloode nor take the wages of Balaam to curse and reuile the people of God nor perish in the contradiction of Corah for resisting both God and the Magistrate but rather that wee may be sanctified and saued by the might of his word and store of his mercy laid vp in Christ his sonne for all that beleeue him and call vpon him Phi. God send vs such part as our fathers had Theo. You be so displeased with God for punishing the sinnes of your fathers with blindnes and error in these later ages that now you will none of his light nor grace though he offer it freely to saue your soules but if you will needes perish your owne bloode be on your owne heades yet haue vs excused if we thinke our sinnes heauie enough though wee adde not thereto the neglect of his worde and contempt of his trueth as you doe In the knowledge of God and reuerence of his iudgements there is a path way to repentaunce and hope of mercy in the proude dislike of his seueritie towards others and sâ—ubberne refusall of his goodnes towards our selues there is nothing but an heaping of extreme vengeaunce which shall consume the wicked and impenitent resisters of his word and spirit Phi. We be not of that number Theo. Were you not you would be more carefull to search and willing to embrace the trueth of Christ once vnderstoode with all readines and lowlines of minde knowing that God resisteth the proud and giueth grace to the humble and not with an high-looking and self-pleasing perswasion that all is yours neglect your duty to God and man Phi. We obserue both Theo. You obserue neither Subiection to your lawfull Prince you haue forsaken and not onely fledde the Realme and incited others to doe the like but the Christian alleageance which the Prince requireth of her subiects you impugne with shifts and slaunders in fauoâ—r of him who wickedly and iniuriously taketh vpon him to be the supreme Moderator of earthly kingdomes chiefe disposer of princes Crowns and so fast are you lincked in confederacie with him that in open view of all men you will allow no Prince to beare the sword longer than shall like him but proclaime rebellions of subiects against their Soueraignes to be iust honorable warres if he authorize them by his Censures And where to cloake your wicked and enormous attempts you boldely surmised that you did whatsoeuer you did for that Religion which was ancient Catholike we haue presently taken you so tardie short of your reckoning that for sixe of the greatest and cheefest points now in question betwixt the Church of England and the Church of Rome and reformed in this Realme by publike authoritie you cannot bring vs so much as one ancient euident testimony that your faith and Doctrine was euer taught or receiued in the primatiue church of christ and yet you please your selues in your owm conceits and compasse the earth to get prosilites fit for such teachers whom you may traine vp in error and vse as instruments to catch vnstable soules and fier vnquiet heades that you by them may disturbe realmes and fishe for Princes thrones and liues in troubled waters Phi. All this is as false as God is true Theo. God himselfe shall skant be trueth if you may be the iudges except hee take your parts But facing and craking laid aside you must referre the iudgement of your doings and sayings to others and not to your selues Phi. To Catholikes I am content The. They must be then of your instructing that is such as will trust neither fathers nor Scriptures against your Canons otherwise in that you haue saide they shall find no great cause to like your impugning the Princes power right to establish Lawes within her owne lande without the Popes leaue and to hold her Crowne against his censures and as litle shall they find to cal you or count you Catholikes Phi. Men of your own pitch will soone assent to any thing Theo. Let them be but indifferent and weigh what you haue brought Phi. More we can bring when we see our times The It skilleth not how much but how sound that is which you can bring Phi. Of that hereafter and yet in the meane time there be many other thinges besides these that you haue handled that must be discussed before we can be pronounced no Catholikes And as in these you seeeme with wresting and wrenching to haue some aduantage so in those we could forthwith confound you The. Euen as you haue doone in these Phi. A great deale more readily if I had time to stay the triall of them but this holy tide I must spend in other matters of more importance Theo. What In spredding newes that the king of Spain doth stay but for the next summer Phi. We meddle not with forraine affaires Theo. A number of you be better seene in policie than in diuinitie you were borne belike to be rulers though it be but of Rebels as Sanders was that thought it a praise to take the field in person against his Prince Phi. My trauell is not to that end Theo. You leaue that for others and trauel to sound the harts of your adherents whether they be in number welth and zeale likely and readie to giue assistance if any should inuade Phi. What vnchristian coniectures you haue of vs Theo. None but such as your owne deedes and wordes occasion Phi What cause haue we giuen you to speake this of vs Theo. What greater cause can you giue than openly to auouch as you haue done in your Defence of Catholiks as you call them yâ— rebellions against such Princes as the Pope deposeth are godly iust honourable wars Phi. If hee may depose them they are Theo. You haue in print affirmed both and sought to proue them with all your might and therefore what shal we thinke your secret whispering and reconâ—ling to the Church of Rome is but a craftie bayte of Malcontentes to make rebels Phi. The parties themselues can witnesse we neuer mention any such thing in our absolution To them we appeale for record Theo. For my part I thinke you doe not It were too grosse conspiracie treason to take vowes and oths of subiects against their Prince by name and therefore if you should take that open course you were worthie to ride to Tyburne not only for traytors but also for disards But when you reconcile them you take assurance of them by vow oth or other adiuration that they shall embrace the Catholike faith and hold Communion vnitie with the Church of Rome for euer after Phi. Why should we not Theo. Then when it pleaseth my Lord the Pope to depriue the Prince and to excommunicate al that assist or agnise her for a lawfull magistrate what must your reconciled sort doe Is it not against their oth faith giuen to you at their restitution to
the bosome of the Catholike Church as you terme it to obay their Prince against the censures of your Church Phi. I haue hast in my way Theophilus and I haue said as much as I wil at this time Theo. I can hold you Philander no longer than you liâ—t but yet remember this as you ride by the way which I reiterate because both your Seminaries shall think the better of it that as many as you reconcile so long as you teach this for a point of faith that the Pope may depose Princes and must bee obayed in those his censures of all that will be Catholikes so many both heretikes against God and traytors against the Prince you hatch vnder the hoode of religion and also that the thinges now reformed in the Church of England are both catholik and christian notwithstanding your fierce bragges and fiery wordes lately sent vs in your RHEMISH Testament To the KING euerlasting immortall inuisible vnto GOD which is only wise be honour and praise for euer and euer Amen The speciall contents of euery part The contents of thâ— first part The Iesuits pretenders of obedience Pag. 2 The causes why they fledde the Realme 5 The proofes and places of their Apologie 7 Forcing to Religion 16 Two Religions in one Realm 21 Toleraunce of error 26 Toleraunce of error in priuate places and persons 27 Compulsion to seruice and Sacraments 29 Exacting the oth 30 Their running to Rome 35 This Lande receiuing the faith from Rome 40 Preachers sent from Rome with the Kings consent 41 Preachers not conspirators froÌ„ Rome 41 Howe the Fathers soughte to Rome 42.48 Athanasius at Rome 44 Chrysostomes request to Innocentius 51 A forged Bull against Arcadius 53. Chrysostomes banishment 55 How Saint Augustine sought to Rome 56 How S. Basil sought to Rome 58 S. Ieroms letters to Damasus 60 The Rocke on the which the Church is built 62 S. Cyprian lately corrupted 65 Gratian suspected 66 Peters person laide in the foundation of the Church 67 Theodoret and Leo. 67 The Bishop of Rome resisted 68 Paul resisted Peter 69 Polycarpus resisted Anicetus 70 Polycarpus resisted Victor 70 Cyprian resisted Stephanus 71 Flauianus withstoode foure Bishops of Rome 72 Cyrillus withstoode the Bishop of Rome 72 Councels resisting the Byshop Rome 73 The Councell of Africa resisted the Byshop of Rome 74 Forged Decretals 76 The councel of Ephesus threatning the Legates of Rome 78 The Councell of Chalcedon against the Bishop of Rome 79 The Councell of Constantinople against the Bishoppe of Rome 81 CorruptioÌ„s in the CanoÌ„ lawe 81 The Brytons resisting the Bishop of Rome 82 The Grecians detesting him 83 The Germans deposing him 84 His owne Councels depose him 85. Fraunce resisting the Pope 92 Paris appealeth from him 94 The french King resisting the Pope 95 The Kinges of England against the Pope 97 Our resistaunce more lawefull than theirs 104 Peters dignitie not imparted to the Pope 104 S. Ieroms praise of Rome 105 The manners of Rome since his time 105 The manners of Rome in his time 106 S. Cyprian forced to make for Rome 106 S. Augustine forced to make for Rome 107 From Peters seate is from Peters time 107 The intent of the Seminaries 108. High experiments of Popes 112 High experiments of the Popes clergie 114 The Iesuits slaunder England and Scotland 118 What the Iesuits worke teach in this land 119 The Pope succeedeth his Auncestors neither in seate nor beliefe 12â— The contents of the second part The Princes power to COMMAVND for trueth 124 Princes be gouernours of countries Byshops be not 127 Byshops by Gods lawes subiect to Princes as well as others 128. The Prince by Gods law charged with Religion 129 Princes may commaund for religion 133 Constantine commaunding for Religion 134 Constantius commaunding Bishops in causes ecclesiastical 135. Iustinian commanding for causes Ecclesiasticall 137 Charles commanding for causes Ecclesiasticall 139 The lawes of Charles for causes Ecclesiasticall 140 Ludoâ—ikes lawes for causes Ecclesiasticall 144 Ludouikes lawes visitors 144 What is ment by SVPREME 146. Supreme is subiect to none on earth 146 Princes subiect onely to God 147. Princes not subiect to the Pope 147. The Pope subiect to his Prince 148. Constantine superiour to the Pope in causes ecclesiastical 150 Emperours superiour to the pope in causes Ecclesiasticall 152 The Prince superiour to the Pope 160 Ieremies words expounded 160 How Prophets may plant and roote out kingdoms 161 Howe Kinges must serue the Church 162 How Byshops are to be obeied 164 How the Church is superiâ—ur to Princes 167 What is ment by the Church 168. The Prince not aboue the Church 171 Princes haue power ouer the persons of the Church 172 The woordes of S. Ambrose to Valentinian 173 The behauiour of S. Ambrose towards Valentinian 174 Valentinian refused to be iudge betweene Byshops 177 Valentinians fault 178 Theodosius searched and established the trueth 178 Princes decreeing for truth 179 Athanasius Osius Leontius 179 Athanasius reproued Constantius 180 Athanasius expounded 181 Why Constantius was reproued 182 Osius words examined 188 Leontius discussed 189 What Hilarie misliked in Constantius 190 Kings commended in the scriptures for medling with religion 191 Moses â—oshuaes example 192 King Dauids care for religioÌ„ 193 Princes charged with the whole law of God 194 Asa Iehosaphat Ezekiah perfourmed that charge 193 Manasses Idolatry repeÌ„tance 196 Iosiah reformed religion 197 Nehemiah correcteth the high Priests doings 197 Princes medled with religioÌ„ 198 Princes vsed to commaund for religion 198 God commaÌ„deth by their harts 199. Princes commanding for Religion 200 Princes haue ful power to command for trueth 202 Princes may prohibite and punish error 203 To commaund for causes Ecclesiasticall was vsuall with Princes 204 To commaund Bishops for causes Ecclesiasticall was vsuall with auntient Princes 206 The Iesuites purposely mistake the Princes supremacie 213 The Iesuits cauelling absurdities against the Popes power 221 This land oweth no subiection to tribunals abroade 228 This lande not subiect to the Popes tribunall 229 What subiection the Pope requireth 231 The Pope maketh it sacrilege blasphemie to doubt of his tribunall 231 A right Rhomish subiection 232 Patriarks of the west 233 Patriarks subiect to Princes 234 This Realme not in the Popes Prouince 135 The Patriarkeâ—dome dissolued 235 The words of the oth examined 236 It is easie to plaie with wordes 237 Princes gouerne with the sword Bishops do not 238 Princes only beare the sword in all spirituall things causes 238. Princes supreme bearers of the sword 240 Supreme gouernour displaceth not Christ. 241 Princes may not commaunde against the faith or Canons 242. Gregorie shamefully corrupted 243. Spirituall men aâ— matters 244. Carnall things called spirituall 245 Carnall thinges made spirituall to increase the Popes power and gaine 245 Carnall things made spirituall 246 Princes charged with spirituall things 247 Princes chiefely charged with things truly spirituall 247 Princes charged at Gods hands with things spirituall not
Apostata 403 The Church of Christ wanted no forces to resist 404. 406 Christes church obayed wicked Princes for conscience sake 405 Leo the third was denied his reuenues in Italy but not depriued by the pope 408 The pope did not appeare in this rebellion of Italy against Leo. 409 The diuision of the Empire was not for religion 412 Their owne stories doe not pretend religion for the diuision of the Empire 413 The diuision of the Empire 416 Platina reproued 417 Who deposed Childericke 418 Childericke deposed for a foole 419 Wauering about Pipines title 421 Philippicus reiected as a rebell 421 Lewes the third 422 The line of Pipine ended 423 An other change of the Empire 423 The pope gained by rolling the Empire to and fro 424 Henry the fourth 424 Pope Hildebrand attempting to depriue Henry the fourth 425 The Iesuits commend HildebraÌ„d to the skies for fitting their rebellious humor 426 Hildebrand Henry the fourth 428 Spitesul slaunders of the Iesuites against Henry the fourth 430 Hildebrands vertues by the confession of his own countrimeÌ„ and Cardinals 431 Hildebrand fauoured of Moncks for taking their part against maâ—ied priests 433 Hildebrandes vndermining HeÌ„ry the fourth 433 The true causes of Henryes excommunication 434 Henry the fourth no Symonistâ— 435 The Moncks to flatter the pope diffame the prince for symonie 436 What Hildebrand ment by Simonie 437 The Princes consent for placing of Bishops was no simony 437 The Pope sought vniust quarels against Henry the fourth 438 The prince not bouÌ„d to the popes penaunces 440 Hildebrands successe 441 Hildebrand the first that offered depriuation to Princes 441 The Romish art to weary princes 442 The â—on dâ—splaceth the father 443 Hildebrand and Boleslaus 444 Princes not punishable by Priests 445. Adrian Frederick the first 446 Fredericâ—s aunswer to the Popes letter â— 447 Adrian conspireth against Frederick 447 The Pope conspireth against the Emperour 448 Alexander made Pope by the coÌ„spirators against Victor 449 Alexanders election not good 450 Frederick tyred by the Popes practises 451 The Popes foote in the Princes neck 451 Honorius Frederick the 2. 452 The Popes quarrels against Frederick the second 453 The lewdnes of Gregorie the 9. against Frederick the secoÌ„d 454 The Italian stories spitefully pursue those Princesse that withstood the Pope 456 Fredericks peace with the Turke could not iustly be disliked 457 The Pope hath beene the ruine of both Empires 458 The Pope crossigned Souldiers against Frederick as against a Turke 459 The second quarrell between Frederick and the Bishop of Rome 460 The Pope nourisheth rebellion against Frederick 461 And to help the matter deposeth him 462 The causes of his deposition examined 462 The censure of Innocentius against Frederick 463 Fredericks right to the kingdome of Sicily 464 The Popes proceedinges against Frederick 465 The whole west Church in an vproare about the deposing of Princes 466 Eberhards oration against the Pope for presuming to depose Princes 467 Frederick poisoned and stifled in his bed 468 Lodouike the fourth and Iohn the 22. 469 Germany taketh part with Lodouike against Pope Iohn 470 The Pope maketh it heresie to mislike his pride or his wealth 471 What submisâ—ion the Pope required of Lodouike 472 The Germanes sweare obedience to Lodouike for all his deposition 473 King Iohn of this Realme 474 King Iohn pursued by the pope for standing in his owne right 475 To interdict whole Realmes for one mans offence is vnchristian policy 476 The Byshops of England eger to haue King Iohn deposed 477 The discord of Princes exalted the Pope 478 The french King finely cousened by the Pope 478 King Iohn the Popes farmor 479 King Iohn could not bind his successour 479 The Nobles lament the seruitude of this Realme 480 George King of Bohemia molested by the Popes censures 481 Half the kingdom of Nauarre surprised by the Spanish King 482 Thomas Becket an arrogant resister of his Prince 483 Princes brought vnder the Popes feet by their own dissension 484 The Kings of France ouerreached the Pope 485 The stirre betweene Philip of Sweueland Otho the 5. 486 The Emperour taketh his farewel of Italy by selling al he had both there and elsewhere 487 These tragicall vprores prooue no right in the Pope to depose Princes 488 The Iesuits mistake an imprecatioÌ„ in Gregory for a depriuatioÌ„ 489 The Realme neuer conâ—esâ—ed the Popes power to depriue princes 490 Iesuits within compasse of treason by the auncient lawes of this land 491 Treason to aide the Pope against the Queene by the statute of Edward the third 492 The Commons â—ide their King against the Pope 493 The King of Englands othe 493 The Patriarches of Constantinople deposed no Princes 494 The people might couenaunt in their elections 494 Zimisces an vsurper a murderer 496 A seditious Patriarck liuing at the same time with Hildebrand 497 Baptisme bindeth no Prince to the â—opes depriuation 498 Byshops may not prescribe conditions to Princes 498 They haue no power to prescribe conditions to Princes 499 Princes not depriuable by the Pope 500 Wicked reasons of the Iesuits for the depriuing of Princes 501 Christians may not kill tyrantes though Heathens did so 502 The Pope his Cardinals woorse than Heathen 503 The Cardinals letter for the killing of the Queene 503 Murdering of princes mainteined by the Iesuits 504 The princes life is sought for by their warres for religion 505 Obedience to Christ forceth vs to no rebellion against the prince 506. Princes appoint paines for others not for themselues 507 Caluins name falsely pretended for rebellioÌ„ against princes 509 Beza doth not allowe subiects to displace their prince 510 The Nobles of Fraunce might lawfullie defend themselues against the Guise 511 Pâ—iuate men may not beare arms against a tyrant 512 Zuinglius woordes concerne not our case 513 Zuinglius aloweth no man to vse violence to tyrants 514 Succession established by God himselfe 515 Goodman and Knokes 516 Luther did not alow rebellion against Princes 517 The Germanes no Rebels in desending their libertie 518 The Iesuits case not like the Germanes 518 The Iesuits obiect they care not what 519 The lawes sometimes permit resistaunce 520 The stirres of Germany Flaunders Fraunce Scotland 521 The manifold rebellioÌ„s of papists 522 The Iesuits treasons 522 Complaint of persecution 522 Treason made religion by the Iesuits 523 Deposition of Princes is against religion 524 Pastours haue no power to compell 526 Death inflicted in England not for religion but rebellion 527 The power which the Pope claimeth is no point of religioÌ„ 528 Peters keyes abused to colour the Popes tyranny 529 Supreme heade misliked by some of the Germans 530 Supreme head mistaken by wrong information 631 Supreme head not vrged by vs. 532 The Magistrate no gouernour of the conscience 533 Where God commaundeth there no authorite wanteth 534 Trueth is authoritie sufficient against all the world 535 One man with trueth is a warrant against all the world 536.
thinges though happily the Prophetes did aduise them and persuade them To be directed and aduised by others doth not hinder the Princes authoritie The high Priest among the Iewes had his commission from Gods owne mouth the Pope hath not Deut. 17. The best christian Princes haue followed the steppes of the kings of Iudah God himselfe speaketh and commandeth by the hearts and lawes of Princes August de ciui Dei li. 5. cap. 24. Idem Epi. 166. Ibidem Aug. Epist. 50. Religion the chiefest care that Princes ought to haue Cod. lib. 1. tit 17 de veter iure enucleando § Deo authore Authen constit 6. Codic Theodos. lib. 16. tit 4. de religione § Ea quae Legum nouell Theodos. tit 2. de Iudeis Samaritanis § Inter caeteras Valentinian himselfe was content at length to coÌ„maund for truth Theodoret. lib. 4. cap. 8. Codic lib. 1. tit 6. NesacruÌ„ Baptisma iteratur Euagrius lib. 3. cap. 14. The right faith is the only strength of an earthly kingdom Idem lib. 5. cap. 4. Niceph. dedicatio operis In Greece the Emperours kept this power 1300. yeres after Christ. Ibidem paulo ante Diligent care of Gods causes the surest proppe of a Princes seat A king of this land making lawes for religion a 1000 yeres after Christ. Lege 1. Lege 6. Lege 7. Lege 14 15. Lege 16. Lege 19 21. Lege 22. Lege 26. â—iter politica iâ—ra erusilem Lege 4 6. The weakest of these places proue that Princes meddle with ecclesiasticall causes which they would seeme to â—ray them from by Osiâ—s wordes And consequently their sword stretcheth vnto spiritual things as well as vnto temporal When papists be posed with these places and cannot auoide them they slip to an other question and cauill about the direction of Princes vnto trueth Princes may commaund for all points of trueth as well as for one He that may commaund for trueth may iustly punish for trueth As lawfull for the Prince to punish Idolaters and heretikes as theeues and murderers Both sides graunt that Princes must punish as well spirituall as temporall offences He that wil punish must first prohibit If Princes may punish prohibite that which is euill in matters of religion ergo they may commaund establish that which is good in the same causes August epist. 50. Idem contra Cresconium lib. 3. cap. 51. Papists grant princes may punish for religion but not coÌ„maund yet punishing is a very forcible kind of coÌ„maunding Nothing clearer than that Princes may commaund for matters of religion August epist. 166. Ibidem The word coÌ„maunding which they most auoide is most vsual in the sacred scriptures auncient lawes of Christian Princes Epist. 66. * Nouel constitut 3.5.6.16.37.42.57.58.59.67.77.79.83.109.117.131.132.133.141.144.146 If princes at all may meddle with matters of religion they must needes commaund Or if the Iesuites will not graunt so much let them looke to the places that went before and presently follow They would none of this if they could chose because they hold that Bishops in these cases must command Princes What Osius ment by saying CoÌ„mandâ— vs not in this kinde Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 3. cap. 23. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 28. Euseb. de vita Constant. lib. 4. cap. 42. Socra lib. 1. ca. 4. Socrat. lib. 1. cap. 27. Idem lib. 1. cap. 38. Theodoret. li. 4. cap. 8. Idem lib. 4. cap. 7. 1. Tim. 3. Cod. lib. 1. tit 6. Ne sanct bapt iâ—eretur Cod. lib. 1. tit 1. Ibidem § nullus Socrat. lib. 5. ca. 7. Gregor epist. li. 4. ca. 78. LeguÌ„ Franciae lib. 1. ca. 76. Ibidem cap. 71. Chalced. Concil actio epist. Theodosii Valentiniani ad Dioscorum The Prince appointeth what Bishops shal be present at the Councell Ibidem Imperatoris epist. ad eund◠§ Diosco reuerendo The Prince maketh the president of the Councel The Prince limiteth who shall haue voyces in the Councell Ibidem Imperatoris commonitorium ad Elpidum Ibidem oratio Martiani ad Synodum Ibidem epist. Euseb. ad Imperator Nouel Constit. 6. § Maxima quidem These commaundemeÌ„ts of Iustinian bound the Bishop of Rome no lesse than other Bishops Ibidem § hanc non pecunijs Ibidem § â— quis auteâ— talis Ibidem § illud etiam definimus Ibidem § sed neque effusas The prince coÌ„maundeth the whole clergie Patriarks Metropolitanes Bishops and the rest whatsoeuer to obserue his ecclesiastical lawes Nouel constit 16. ad finem Constit. 57. Constit. 123. § exigatur autem prius These lawes exteÌ„ded to all prouinces patriarkes Ibidem § prae omnibus autem illud Ibidem § interdicimus autem Ibidem § quis a vero Synodes called for ecclesiastical causes were tied to the Lawes imperiall Ibidem C. ad haec iubemus All Bishops commanded by the Prince Ibidem § Insuper interdicimus Eadem constit § omnibus vero epis Vniust excoÌ„munication punished by the Princes lawes Eadem constit § praeterea si qui. The Courts and consistories of all Bishops Archbishops patriarks limited as well to the Princes lawes as to the Canons No appeal from the Patriark Eadem constit § Clericos auteÌ„ Euagrius lib. 4. cap. 9. Idem li. 5. ca. 6. Idem lib. 5. ca. 5. Cod. lib. 1. tit 3. de epist. cleri C. si quenquam Cod. lib. 1. tit 2. de sacrosactis ecclesiis C. decernimus Osius words if they were not diuersly answered by vs may not controle the perpetuall practise of Christs Church The cunning of the papists in this point is either to belie our doctrine or to slip themselues froÌ„ the question The summe effect of the former allegations authorities for the Princes power Or if they doe not disproue them Apolog. cap. 1. The Iesuites in their Apologie for all their vaunts neuer come neere the princes power which we defend The Princes authoritie as we defend it The Princes supremacie as we maintaine it Neither of these points touched in the Apolog. The absurdities which the Iesuites muster against the Princes supremacie Apolog. cap. 4. sect 21. 1. Cor. 14. 1. Tim. 2. Sect. 22. Epist. 55. Sect. 23. August contra Gaudentij epist. lib. 2. Cap. 25. Sect. 24. Sect. 25. Their absurdities be grounded on their owne dreames not on our doctrine To this that Princes may coÌ„maund for trueth no absurdity can be consequent WheÌ„ Princes coÌ„maund that which is good it is Christ no man els that commaundeth by their mouthes Epist. 166. Ibidem Ibidem Their absurdities must be inferred vppon our assertion if they bring them against vs. May not Christ appoint as well as the Pope what Princes shall commaund To coÌ„maund that which God commaundeth is pietie and no absurditie Supreme as we professe it hath no absurditie consequent to it This misconstering of supreme is the ground of all their absurdities Apol. cap. 4. Sect. 21. Mat. 28. Princes giue no commissioÌ„ but a permission and free libertie without let
the great learned and generall councell of Laterane Cap. 3. de haeret This was the next way to make all safe on their side Platin. in Innocent 3.800 Hungrie friers brought into the councell to ouerrule the Bishops A fine stratageme of the Pope to set out thinges consulted as if they had bin concluded Platina in vita Innocentij 3. Nothing concluded in the Councel of Lateran THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES Cap. 4. Matth. 19. By Gods lawe you may not resist much lesse displace the Prince The woord of God binding you to obedience neither Pope nor couÌ„cel can assoile you from it This is it which Master Allen professeth to prooue in the 5. chap. of his DefeÌ„ce What subiection honor God alloweth vnto Princes 1. Peter 2. Rom. 13. Prouerb 8. * Wisdom 6. * Rom. 13. 1. Peter 2. Prouer. 24. We may not dishonor princes in word deede or thought Exod. 22. * Eccle. 10. Rom. 13. 1. Pet. 2. Iudgement threatned chiefly to theÌ„ that despise Magistrates 2. Pet. 2. Iude. Rom. 13. Luk. 20. Honor subiection tribute by Gods law due to Princes By the Iesuits doctrine Caesar shal haue that which God alloweth him so long as pleaseth the Pope You may not resist them or despise them ergo much lesse displace them Iohn 8. Deposition is an authentike rebellion vnder the Popes scale The defence of English catholikes cap. 5. 1. Reg. 10.15.16 Saul deposed for vsurping spirituall function 1. Reg. 22. The Prophets denounced both the temporall eternall iudgementes of God but they inflicted neither By these exaÌ„ples Priestes may kill men set their houses on fire or pull out their eyes as wel as displace Princes if the Iesuites collections bee good The Popes commission to depose Princes they promised to proue by scripture nowe vainly suppose it without Scripture Samuel Elias and Elizeus had speciall extraordinary commaundement from God to doe as they did The Pope may not doe that which the Prophetes did till hee haue the same precept which they had To put down kings is an honour specially reserued vnto God him selfe Luc. 1. Dan. 2. Dan. 4. The Pope will depose Princes as well as God The example of Saul God prescribed Samuel what he shuld say to Saul ful sore for against the will of Samuel 1. Kings 16. All Israell and Dauid obeied and honoured Saul as the Lords annointed to his dying day The defence Cap. 5. Aug. contra Adamant 1. Kings 24. 1. Kings 24. 1. Kings 26. 2. Kings 1. Ibidem Cap. 17. 1. Kings 26. Dauid confesseth he might not kill Saul without sinne Contra Adimantum ca. 17. The words be grounded rather on Adimantus assertion than S. Austens perswasion S. Aug. speaketh not of Sauls deposition but of reuenge permitted by Moses law which the Maniches did obiect Adimantus antecedent returned on his own head Aug. Centra lit Petilian lib. 2. cap. 48. S. Aug. holdeth that Saul had the holinesse of his princely inunction to the houre of his death Dauid put himselfe in armes to saue his life not to seeke the Crowne Saul reiected from hauing the kingdome to him his seede * 1. Kings 15. The children of Israell required a king after the maner of other Nations that is a setled succession in the kingdom 1. Reg. 13. * To thee and thine for euer 1. Kings 15. Aug. de ciuit Dei li. 17. ca. 7. S. Augustine expoundeth Saules reiection as we do * The Scripture is cleare for the same sense 1. Kings 16. Dauid aduanced when hee was but a boy keeping sheep Dauid neuer claimed the Crowne from Saul 1. Kinges 20. The Priestes protested that Dauid was a faithfull seruant to Saul 1. King 22. All Israel alleadged Samuels fact that Dauid ought to succeede 2. Kings 5. 1. Chron. 11. God annointed such as should succeede The Defence cap. 5. 3. Reg. 13.14 The example of Ieroboam a wicked schismatik denouÌ„ced by a priest Prophets may threaten wicked Princes in Gods name but not depriue them of their crownes The Prophet that cried out against Ieroboams Altar spake not a worde of his schisme It is easie for any side to applie figures as thy list Reuel 17. Reuel 19. Gods threatning IeroboaÌ„ is nothing to the doposing of Princes by priestes * 3. Kinges 14. The Defence cap. 5. The example of proud Ozias that would take vnto him the authoritie of priests Vzziah strikeÌ„ with a leprosie but not deposed The high Priest withstood the king with wordes not with weapons The Iesuites delight in martial terms * 2. Chron. 26. De verbis Esai Vidi DominuÌ„ The Iesuits gather coÌ„clusioÌ„s cleane against the Scriptures and their own canons * Caus. 23. quaest 8. ¶ 1. * Ibidem ¶ 2. * Ibidem ¶ 3. * Ibidem ¶ Clerici * Ibidem ¶ quicunque Ibidem dict ¶ quicunque § hijs ita * 1. Tim. 3. 2. Tim. 2. Tit. 1. * 2. Cor. 10. * Mat. 24. The Princes person no Priest may violate or so much as touch Psal. 105. 1. Kings 24. They might not vse violence what needed any when the King hastned of himselfe to goe forth * 2. Chro. 26. * 2. Chro. 26. 4. Kings 15. 2. Chron. 26. 4. King 15. Oziah was king of Iudah to the day of his death The Priestes were to discerne lepers but the Magistrate to see them kept apart from others Numb 5. The leprosie of the soule no cause of depriuation vnto Princes In Luc. lib. 5. de leproso mundato Chrysost. in Mat hom 16. oper imperfect hom 10. To beare the sword in matters of religioÌ„ is the Princes and not the priests charge The defence cap. 5. 4. Reg. 11. The example of the deposition death of Queene Athalia by Ioida the hie-Priest Athalia an vsurper and slaine by the Kings authoritie Ioidaes warrant to commaund Athalia to be put to death in the Kings name 2. Chrâ— 23. 4. Kings 11. The defence cap. 5. 3. Reg. 18.19 The executioÌ„ done by Elias the Prophet vpon many with deposition of Princes 4. Reg. 1. 3. Reg. 19. 4. Reg. 9. Elias zeale 3. Kings 18. Elias caused the Prophets of Baal to be slaine by the publike authoritie of the King and his people Elias was a Prophet and not an executioner How Elias gate Achab the whole Realm to decree the slaughter of Baals prophets * 3. Kings 17. Vers. 1. * 3. Kings 18. Vers. 23. Vers. 24. Vers. 1. Vers. 24. Vers. 39. Vers. 40. Vers. 24. The King and the people consented to Elias offer Vers. 20. Vers. 24. 3. Kings 19. Elias is said in the Scripture to haue doon the deede because he was the procurer and author of it Acts. 7. Iosu. 10. 3. Kings 14. God sent â—er from heauen not Elias Luke 9. * Exod. 12. * Iudges 16. * 4. Kings 2. THE DEFENCE OF ENGLISH CATHOLIKES The annointing of Hazael 4. Kings 8. Iehu willed by God to take the sword and root out Achabs house 4. Kings 9. Ibidem vers
Otho â—rising lib. 6. cap. 2. Regino in anno 866. Regino in anno 869. Otho Frisingen lib. 6. cap. 3. This excommunication is proued to be a mere forgerie before Of seuen examples but one proued and that of no Bishop of Rome The cause why the Church of Christ did so rarely excommunicate Princes August contra Parmenian lib. 3. cap. 2. Excommunications of whole realms then be much more proude pernitious sacrilegious August contra epist. Parmen lib. 3. cap. 2. The whole Church obserued this moderation which Austen speaketh of August Ibidem lib. 3. cap. 2. 2. Thesalo 3. The subiect neither may nor caÌ„ flie the Princes companie Theodoret. lib. 5 cap. 18. The Iesuites prouide for this mischiefe by wilie dissembling with Princes till they be strong enough to take their crownes from them * Tum demum obliget Catholicos quando publica eiusdeÌ„ bullae executio fieri poterit facultas concessa Roberto Parsonio Edmundo Campiano 14. April 1480. 8. Tim. 2. Ierem. 19. Tertul. in Apologet The christiaÌ„s praied not only for their conuersion but also for their health and welfare The church praied for the prosperitie of hereticall Princes Socra li. 2. ca. 37 Sozom. lib. 4. cap. 18. Socrat. Ibidem Accustomed praiers alwaies made in the church for ConstaÌ„tius the Arian the West Bishops desirous to continue the same Hil. ad Constan. lib. 2. Athan. Apolog. ad Constan. The zealous praier of Atha and the people for their Prince though an heretike Athan. Ibidem Athan. eadem Apol. ad ConstaÌ„ Rebellion depriuation of Princes not so much as thought on by christians and specially by Bishops The defence Cap. 5. When vpoÌ„ what occasions spirituall Pastors began to vse the temporall sworde Spirituall Pastours neuer vsed the temporall sworde till the Pope beganne to rule all at his pleasure The defence Cap. 5. Warre for the Catholike religion both lawfull and honorable The Iesuites should proue that subiectes may rebell against their Princes for religion and they shew that one Prince may warre vpon another In all warres the person must be warraÌ„ted to draw the sword as well as the cause good that they fight for Priuate men can giue no warrant to vse the sword They be but theeues and murtherers that vse the sword without the magistrats authoritie Pastours can authorize no man to vse the sworde They that beare it by Gods ordinance must licence others to vse it Pastors be no superiour iudges for bearing armes The defence How fauorable the Papistes bee to their owne tumults Lawes of their owne making do not excuse them from rebellion The Iesuites take armes to depose Princes that is to subuert their states liues whom by Gods lawe they should honor and obey The defence cap. 15. 2. Paral. cap. 15. A king forcing his people is no proofe for subiectes oppressing their Prince These straungers did take an oth to serue God but not to impugne their Prince 2. Chron. 15. 3. Kings 15. The mother could haue no right to the Scepter her sonne being in full possession of the crowne 2. Chron. 15. Asa had been king 15. yeares aboue before he remoued his mother from her dignitie Asaes mother lost the dignity which shee had but not the crowne which she had not The defence cap. 5. Deut. cap. 13. Death by Gods law prouided not for heretiks but for Apostates Leuit. 24.20 Exod. 22.21 The penalties of Moses lawe stand not in force vnder the Gospell Aug. contra Cresc li. 3. ca. 50 nullis bonis in catholica hoc placet si vsque ad mortem in queÌ„quam licet haereticum saeuiatur Deut. 13. * Exod. 20. The Prince is to punish others and not to be punished by others Princes when they sin must be left to the righteous iudgement of God Children may not chastise their parentes though faulty much lesse subiects their Soueraignes Deut. 25. Execution done vpon Princes You would slay 3000. Numb 25.4 Vers. 1. 2. This fact had the commandement of God and the magistrate for a warrant rebellion against Princeâ— hath neither Numb 25.5 God imbraced the zeale of Phinees not for vsing the sword without authoritie but for neglecting his owne dignitie whiles he did execute the precept of God the magistrate Exod. 32. The Leuites were charged by God the Magistrate to do this execution 1. Chron. 6. â— Chron. 23. Moses was a Magistrate Gen. 14. Priests and Prophetes among the Iewes were sometimes magistrates Psalm 99. * 2. Sam. 8. * 2. Sam. 20. The word coheÌ„ signifieth as well a Prince as a Priest Exod. 40. Aaron his sonnes onely had the priesthood Numb 3. Moses was Aarons brother and not his sonne Num. 18. Aarons brethren might not come neer the Altar Moses might annoint Aaron yet be no Priest Heb. 5. Hieron traditiones Hebraicae in libros Regum tomo 3. Hieron in Psal. 98. S. Hierom S. Aug. take the woord Priest largely for him that teacheth as well as for him that offereth and in that sense Moses may be called a Priest notwithstanding he were also a Magistrate August in Psalm 98. * 1. Chron. 6.33.34 * Num. 25.13 1. Sam. 14. * 1. Chron. 6. Aug. quaest super Leuit. lib. 3. cap. 23. * Numb 12. * Exod. 33. * Numb 27. Deut. 31. * Iudg. 1. 1. Sam. 16. Samuel no Priest * 1. Sam. 7. * Iudg. 11. * Iudg. 13. * Iudg. 13.2 * 2. Sam. 6. * 2. Sam. 24. * 1. Kings 3. * 1. Kings 9. What the scripture meaneth when it saith that they which were no Priests offered * 1. Sam. 13. 1. Sam. 14. vers 3. 18. Sauls offence was distrust impatience not sacrificing in his owne person * 1. Sam. 10. * 1. Sam. 13. The defence Cap. 5. Numb 27. The punishment of Princes for schism and reuolt 2. Paral. 13. 1. Paral. 21. 4. Reg. 8. * Numb 27.21 The Priest was to consult God for the kinges warres but not to appoint the king what he thought good * Ver. 18.28 * Ver. 18. * Ver. 2.4.11.12 * Ver. 8. * 2. Chron. 13. The warres of Abiah were of one Prince against an other * 2. Chron. 11. * 2. Chron. 13.5 And not so much for religion as for renting the kingdom of Israell from Iudah 3. Kings 15. 3 Kings 14.22 Abia was as bad as Ieroboam 4. Kings 8. The men of Edom were prophane infidels and had no respect to religion when they reuolted 2. Chron. 25. Ioshua 21. 4 Kings 8. Euerie thing reported in the Scripture is not by by commended * 2. Chron. 21. They did euill to rebell or else al the rest that obeied did not well This defectioÌ„ of Libuah from the kingdom of Iudah and temple of God was directly against the law of God * Ioshua 22. The ten tribes had sufficient authoritie to fight with twaine Iudg. 20. The defence cap. 5. But what fights can you shew of subiects against their Princes The warres of
nor conscience This prelate became after a pestilent enimie to king Iohn * Matth. Paris in anno 1215. saith coniurati Steph. Archiep. capital consent habuerunt Matt. Paris anno 1212. The Bishops of England incense the Pope against their king Why shoulde the clergy haue their liuinges if they would not discharge their duties Matt. Paris in anno 1208. The king allowed his clergy food and raiment so that hee barred them only of their abundance Interdicting of whole realmes wrap peth innoceÌ„ts as well as nocents Interdicting God to bee publikely serued is the high waie to increase the kingdom of Satan The right meaning of their Romish interdicts The executors of such interdicts as bad as the pronouncers Matth. Paris anno 1212. By this bait the Pope drue many ambitious princes to serue his turne Not so much as the Popes pride fury but it must be shrewded with the name of the Catholike Church Matth. 3. Romish deuotion the very mother of diuelish rebellioÌ„ Matth. Paris anno 1213. Were nor these good subiectes The King of France would fain haue had the Crowne of England in that respect tooke the Popes offer fol. 95. By the dissention ambitioÌ„ of Princes the Pope grew to be Lord ouer them Feare of the French King draue King Iohn to put his necke vnder the popes gâ—rdle The Pope gate the kingdome of England for himselfe Mat. paris in anno 1213. § hijs ita gestis The Pope a skilfull fisher for kingdoms King Iohn faâ—med his crowne of the Pope by a yerely rent The Pope shewed fauor to King Iohn but most of al to himselfe The pope had as much right to the crowne of England as a thiefe hath by the high waies side to an other mans purse Mat. Paris in anno 1213. § rebus vt iam dictum est The king might binde himselfe but not his successors to these conditions The Barons of this realme detested the kings act Matth. Paris anno 1216. § sub hiis diebuâ— Much lesse successours Matth. Paris anno 1216. § Cumque omnes The coÌ„plaint of the Barons against the Pope and the king Marcidi ribaldi Matth. Paris anno 1216. § Circa hosâ— dies The end of all the Popes deuises No King of England euer acknowleged this subiectioÌ„ to the Pope The Kings of England most of all others kept the Pope shortest from infringing the liberties of their Crowne The pope had a 1000. marks land giuen him by King Iohn part whereof the Pope solde after to WilliaÌ„ wickham Polidor Angli hist. lib. 15. in Ioan. King Iohn burdened him selfe not the Princes after him The defence cap. 5. George died King of Bohemia notwithstanding the Popes practises and Mathias forces Cromer de gestis Polonor li. 27. Cromer eodem libro The Pope verie liberal in giuing kingdoms that be none of his The defence cap. 5. The King of Nauarre Princes content to take part with the Pope so long as it maketh for their profit Guicciard hist. lib. 18. Charles loked through his fingers and saide he saw nothing Guicci li. 11. Ferdinand lacking a better title preteÌ„ded the popes Bull for that part of Nauarre which lay so neere him Right force do not alwaies meete The defence cap. 5. Henry the 2 Tho. Becket Beckets quarell must be good before he can be blessed Appeales to the Pope immunitie of wicked Priests were the quarel that Becket stoode in Beckets fact damnable for these three respects vnlesse the Iesuites proue those lawes which he with stood to be repugnant to the word of God Such proude prelates are likeliest to be of your Romish relâ—gion Becket farre from a martyr The Church of Rome were to be blamed if she did not honor Becket The popes practise to subdue Princes Princes punished for the neglect of trueth discord that raigned amoÌ„gest them The defence cap. 5. No King of England deposed by the Pope but only King Iohn The Kings of Fraunce were too good for the Pope Philip King of Fraunce * Nauel gener 44. anno 1300. * Gagu in Phil. pulchro Platina in Bonifacio 8. Platina IbideÌ„ Gaguin lib. 7. in Phil. pulchr How Philip of France handled Bonifacius see part 1. fol. 95 Lewes King of France Massaed in an 1510. The Realme of France in this our age despised the Popes ceÌ„sure against their King Velleij ad Gag aggeâ— in Lodou 12. The Pope will be tried by the sword and not by the word The Pope no pastor but a warrier All the Germane Emperours that were offered depriuation by the Pope are alreadie recited Philip of Sueuia and Otho the 5. Vrspergens in anno 1197. The Pope would not acknowledge this Philip for Emperor IdeÌ„ in an 1198. Naucler gener 44 anno 1195. Otho erected against Philip. Cuspinian in Phil. Caesar. Frederikes election ratified to spite Otho Fredericke in greater hatred with the Pope than either of the former What followed of these garboiles Vrspergens in anno 1198. §. audiui to tempore Ibidem § properant electi Dispencing with othes is the Diuels art Ibidem ¶ iam tunc Colon. The Pope gained by al this As true a song as any the Hunnal hath Blondus decad 2. lib. 10. Blondus IbideÌ„ Naucl. generat 46. an 1355 The Pope would not suffer the Emperour to come neere Italy Blondus Naucler vt supra The Emperor as glad to be gone as the Pope to haue him goe Blondus decad 2. lib. 10. The Prince sold all the Emperour had both in Italie Germanie The price of a voice in the election of the Emperor Aeneas Siluius histor Bohem. cap. 32. The Romane Empire come vtterly to nothing VeÌ„celaus put from the Empire as vnfit to rule Cuspinianâ— in Vencelao For a 1000. yeares no such thing offered to this present day no such thing acknowledged In all these examples infinite numbers of their own religion haue stoode with Princes against the Pope We may not leaue the precepts of the holy Ghost and the ancient obedieÌ„ce of Christs Church to follow these fierbrands of hell The defence cap. 5. Gregorie the first nâ—uer dreampt of deposing Princes The defâ—nce cap. 5. An excoÌ„mucation of S. Gregorie vpoÌ„ Kings and Priâ—ces In fine libri 12. epist. In fine 12. lib epist. ibidem Gregorie had no more power to depose Princes than he had to damne theÌ„ Gregories wordes are a curse not a iudicial sentence Euerie doner hath the like wordes in his graunt Ibidem Ibidem The defence cap. 5. In eodem priuilegio Gregories act nothing like the Iesuites * King Iohn lost the harts of his Nobles before these troubles beganne Matth. Paris anno 1203. * Matth. Paris in anno 1213. King Iohn thought it easier to loose a 1000. markes by the yeare than to fight for his Crown and state * Matt. Paris Ibidem ¶ Rex denique Iohan. * IbideÌ„ ¶ Dum autem Rex Matth. Paris anno 1215. 〈◊〉 â—â—ins epist. The Nobles pursued King Iohn after his reconciliation to the
brother Beza In editione anno 1564. The opinion of the congregation art 39. The battaile of Druze The Nobles of France repressed the furie of the Guise the king being vnder age The King had neither age nor Lawe to licence the Guise to murder his people Lâ—x Salica Bezaes iudgement of bearing armes against the Prince out of his own works Beza in confessione fidei Christianae eiusdem cum Papisticis erroribus Collatione cap. 5. sect 45. Ibidem cap. 5. sectio 45. PriuatmeÌ„ may disobay a wicked pâ—ince but not bear arms against him To you Sir slanderer The warres of the FreÌ„ch ministers lewdly peruerted by the Iesuites If the supreme dominion of God be violated by the coÌ„maundement of any prince that precept may bee well disobeied but not the prince displaced Infidels must be obaied so farre forth as their precepts tend not to the dishonour of Gods holie name Mat. 5. The defence cap. 4. The defence of Zuing. lib. 4. epist. Zuing. Oâ—col fol. 186. 4. Reg. 21. Art 42. explan fol. 84. The manifest forâ—es of coÌ„mon wealthes make diuerse men speake diuersly of the magistrates sword Germanie a free state and the Emperors authoritie limited by the Lawes of the Empire The germans proportion their speaches according to the state of their country Zuinglius meÌ„t this of Princes elected limited 1. Sam. 14. 1. Chron. 13. 1. Kings 12. Ierem. 26. God neuer required the people to displace their King but not to consent to his wickednes Explanat articulo 42. Ibidem A tyrant inheriting may not be displaced by Zuinglius opinion Ibidem Princes may neither be murdered nor assaulted with any tumult by Zuinglius iudgement Ibidem Ibidem Succession most vsual in christian kingdomes and allowed by God himselfe Psal. 132. 1. Sam. 13. 2. Kings 10. The defence cap. 4. Goodmans opinion Cap. 14. à pag. 204. ad pag. 212. Goodmans priuate opinion long since corrected by him selfe cannot preiudice the whole realme GoodmaÌ„ did not hold that lawful Princes might be thrust froÌ„ ther Crownes but that Queene MARY was no lawful magistrate The defence cap. 5. The iudgemeÌ„t of the Scottish ministerie Iohn Knokes IbideÌ„ pag. 77. Sleid. lib. 17. Sleid. lib. 19. lib. 21. The defence cap. 4. The opinion and definitioÌ„ of Luther Sled hist. li. 8. Lib. 21. Lib. 22. What Luther taught of obedience to magistrates Sleid. lib. 8. The Gospel doth not bar the politike lawes of any countrie Sleid. lib. 8. The Lawes of the Empire permit resistance Sleid. lib. 18. not the 21. as you quote The states of Germany not subiect to the Emperour but with conditioÌ„ Sleid. 22. This is true in free States but not in absolute subiectes The differeÌ„ce betwene the Ies. the Germanes resistance No law permitteth the Pope to depose Princes but that which is of his owne making The defence cap. 4. The rage of popish persecutors is able to set good men besides their byas There is great diuersitie in bearing armes though we allow none if the lawes of the Land do not warrant the same In some cases the nobles coÌ„mons may stand for the publike regiment lawes of their CouÌ„trie Christian Kingdomes may settle their States with common consent of Prince and people which the Prince alone caÌ„not alter The Princes sword is his law not his lust Princes may be staied froÌ„ tyranny by their owne realms though not deposed Germanie Flaunders Scotland Fraunce The Iesuites forget how often the Italians haue rebelled both against the Emperour against the pope himself in euery nation what dissentions rebellions haue beene before our time The practises of the Iesuits wherewith this land is greeued and displeased These be no pointes of religion but flat treason This easie punishment for twentie yeres sheweth the goodnesse of her dispositioÌ„ and the mildnesse of her regiment This later seueritie the Ies. haue prouoked by their wilfulnesse The Iesuites make rebellion a point of their Catholike faith because they would the sooner infect the people with it Casus conscientiae qui hodie in Anglia occurrunt sacerdotibus comissis artic 55. And if you be asked do you beleeue that the Bishop of Rome may licence you to beare armes against the Queene of England and to kill her if you can what must you answere by this resolution of your but I beleeue he may Till this position be recanted by the Ies. a traitour a Iesuite caÌ„not be sundered Mat. 22. Princes not depriueable by any mortal man Luke 12. Iohn 18. August in Psal 47. Ibidem The Iesuites make the Popes pride a poinct of Christian faith The Popes keyes exteÌ„d not to the goods or laÌ„ds of the poorest subiect in this realme Pastours haue their kind of correction ouer Princes but that is far from depriuation The Pastor cannot force his flock Chrysost. de sacerdot lib. 2. Pastours may not coÌ„straine but only perswade Ibidem Bishops least of al men may correct with force Compulsion neither lawful nor expedient in Bishops Hilar. ad Const. lib. 2. imperfect Bishops may not meddle but with those that be willing Orig. in cap. 13. epist. ad Rom. God will not haue crimes reuenged by the Rulers of the Church but by the Iudges of the world Bishops by vertue of their calling cannot authorize violence or armes Rom. 13. Defendorâ— of the Popes power to depose princes are no Martyrs but hainous traitors The maintainers abettours of this power put to death and none els The defence cap. 1. An. 1583. M. Slade M. Bodie The question of Peters keyes as the Iesuites expound theÌ„ is no religion To subiect the Princes sword or Crowne to the Popes courtes and Buls is treasoÌ„ by our Lawes the rest of his vsurped power is heresie not treason These treasoÌ„s be no trifles August contra literas Petil. lib. 2. cap. 92. No coÌ„spiracie so dangerous as that which possesseth the heart vnder a shew of religion Peters keyes wickedly wrested to commaund the swordes and dispose the crownes of Princes A lewd deceit of the Iesuites to call that religioÌ„ which is none Apol. cap. 4. sect 21. Magdebur in praefat Cent. 7. Cal. in 7. cap. Amos. Bodie said so at Andeuer but he lied the more Apol. cap. 4. sect 21. 1. Elizabethae The statute vpoÌ„ the which they were coÌ„demned Popish Bishops were the first that consented to haue the king called supreme head A plainer stile receiued to auoide offence Supreme head no more blasphemous in the Prince than in the Pope to whoÌ„ the Iesuites giue that stile Caluin mistook supreme by Gardiners wily suggestioÌ„ Caluin in 7. Amos. Cal. Ibidem Steuen Gardiner expounded supreme as if the prince might doe what he would in matters of religioÌ„ without regard of God oâ— his word How Caluine vnderstoode Supreme head Supreme must be referred to peâ—soÌ„s and not to things We giue the Prince no right to bee iudge of religion but power to receiue settle in her realme that which is