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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A73011	Looke beyond Luther: or An ansvvere to that question, so often and so insultingly proposed by our aduersaries, asking vs; where this our religion was before Luthers time? VVhereto are added sound props to beare vp honest-hearted Protestants, that they fall not from their sauing-faith. By Richard Bernard, of Batcombe in Sommersetshire.	Bernard, Richard, 1568-1641.	1623 (1623)	STC 1956.3; ESTC S123041	43,757	64

Romish Bishops Yea the Centurists and other Protestants haue obserued out of Galfridus that before Austines comming there was here amongst the Britaines the profession of more pure Christianity then that which Austine brought from Rome Its babbled out by our aduersaries that this Austin conuerted this Iland but this is most vntrue for Saint Aidan and Saint Finan were the Lords instruments to gaine many here to Christ Saint Aidan recouered from Paganisme the Kingdome of Northumberland whereunto belonged besides Northumberland it selfe the Lands beyond it vnto Edenborow Frith these Countries Cumberland Westmerland Lancashire Yorkeshire and the Bishopricke of Durham Saint Finan regained not onely Essex and Middlesex but also the large Kingdome of Mercia conuerted first vnto Christianitie which Kingdome did comprehend vnder it these Countries Glostershire Herefordshire Worcestershire Warwickshire Leicestershire Rutlandshire Northamptonshire Lincolneshire Huntingtonshire Bedfordshire Buckingamshire Oxfordshire Staffordshire Darbyshire Shropshire Nottingamshire Cheshire and halfe Hertfordshire These holy men are they which vnder God are to haue the prayse and not Austin who brought some but few in comparison of these to the profession of Christ but withall besmeared them with Romish superstitions And such others as were already Christians hee endeuoured to loade with humane inuentions and vnnecessary ceremonies and was if not the cause yet the occasion of the destruction of many and of the miserable and mercilesse slaughter of the godly Monkes at Bangor to the number of 1200. for that these poore Monkes would not submit to him whom they saw to be too proud and not so humble a man as a man of God ought to haue been V. That this our Religion was here before Austin it may appeare by that publike doctrine of the Church which was taught about the time of Gregory who sent in hither this Austin concerning the blessed Sacrament altogether agreeing with our present doctrine and plainely opposite to the doctrine of the now Church of Rome For in an Homily of the Saxon Tongue appointed to be preached on Easter day throughout euery Church the bread is acknowledged to be naturally corruptible bread and corruptible wine truly Christs body and blood yet not so bodily but spiritually and nothing therein to be vnderstood bodily but all spiritually If this was the publike doctrine so fully herein agreeing with vs so contrary now to the Romish beliefe in their transubstantiated bread for deniall whereof they haue murthered so many and now hold it still so maine an article of their Romane beliefe how can it be otherwise imagined all things also before considered withall but that the Religion then was our religion now and not this of the Church of Rome VI. It cannot be denied if our Religion bee the same which was planted by the Apostles in the Easterne Churches from which our Religion was brought hither as is afore deliuered but that then this our Religion was before Austines time But that ours is the same the Apostles writings written to the Churches shew Secondly an Apostle or some Apostolicall men here taught it Thirdly the writings of the Greeke Fathers for 600. yeres space after Christ which is all the space from Christ to this Austin giue testimonie to our Religion in the maine points thereof as is prooued before in the third argument Fourthly it is euident euen by those things which yet the Churches at this day in those parts doe hold with vs and wherein wee and they agree against the now Romish Religion For the Greekes denie the Popes Supremacie Purgatorie and Prayer for the deliuerance of soules out of it the necessitie of Auricular Confession Meritorious satisfaction of the iustice of God Transubstantiation carued Images and Statues They deny that Saints departed heare our Prayers They administer the Sacraments in both kinds and allow Ministers marriage They mixe not water with wine they vse not vnleauened bread They admit not priuate Masses nor the Circumgestation or Adoration of the Sacrament nor the publike seruice in an vnknowne tongue They teach the assurance of saluation in Christ and renounce the merit of workes All which are opposite to the now Romish Religion and are the truths of our Religion taught by the Apostles and holy ancient Fathers from the beginning in the Easterne Churches wherein they are not falne from that which at first they receiued as they be in some other things which they teach and practise VII The Religion which we professe is the same which was at Rome at the time of the three conuersions of England as they call them and therefore was this our Religion before Austines comming and here professed when hee came in The first conuersion was in the Apostles dayes but in their daies was our religion at Rome as Saint Pauls Epistle written to the Saints there and other of his Epistles declare as also the Epistles of Saint Peter whom they would faine haue to haue been at Rome to which our Religion agreeth wholy and fully wherein soeuer wee now differ from the present doctrine of the Church of Rome Let their writings be Iudge from which our aduersaries haue greatly erred as is euidently prooued in all the maine poynts of the Christian Faith And therefore was it our Religion then professed at Rome and not this new Romish Faith The second Conuersion they make to bee in Eleutherius dayes who wrote as they acknowledge vnto our King here called Lucius If here was any conuersion wrought it was to our Religion and not to the present Romish Trentisme as may be clearely gathered out of that Epistle of Eleutherius and which they doe approue of as written to the same Lucius First Eleutherius there telleth the King that he had receiued the Law and Faith of Christ Secondly as hereby shewing him where this Law and Faith was to bee found he telleth him againe immediatly vpon these former words that he had receiued both the parts of the scriptures Thirdly he so commendeth the Scriptures to the King and his Councell that thence by Gods grace they themselues might take a Law to rule the Kingdome This Bishop did not take vpon him to prescribe them Lawes hee alloweth them being Lay persons as they now speake to meddle with the holy Scriptures and from thence and not from him nor from his Lawes nor from the Lawes of the Romanes to take a Law to liue by This Bishop therefore held the Scripture sufficient for a direction and guide to a whole Kingdome hee held them not so obscure but that the King and his Councell by Gods grace though but young Christians might learne out of them the wil of God how hee would haue a Christian Kingdome gouerned Fourthly this godly Bishop calleth Lucius Gods Vicar in his owne Kingdome and alleageth Scripture to prooue it hee was not then swolne vp with the pride of Antichristian Supremacy nor conceited any temporall power ouer kings as now the Popes doe Lastly hee puts wholly the care of

To hold seuen Sacraments that Baptisme is to bee administred with hallowed Water with Chrysme Salt Spittle Coniuring and other deuices IV. To beleeue that the Priest may receiue the Sacrament alone and yet many other Christians to be there present looking on that the Bread without the Cup is to bee giuen to the people that after the words of consecration the Bread is turned into the very naturall body of Christ the accidents of Bread and Wine onely remaining but not the substance that it is to be adored and prayed vnto and to be carried about in Procession that it is to bee administred with such varietie of garments alterations of gestures and change of voyce that it is a propitiatorie sacrifice for the quicke and the dead V. To make prayer to administer the Sacraments and to say all diuine Seruice in an vnknowne Tongue to say the Creed amongst Prayers the Aue Marie as a prayer with the Pater noster vpon Beades with Crosses and that to a certaine number repeating the Aue Marie fortie times and the Pater noster foure times with a Creed at the end that many thus praying though they vnderstand not the words which they vtter yet hauing a good intent they do a work pleasing to God VI. To hold the Church of Rome to bee the Mother Church the onely One Holy Catholike and Apostolike Church that it could not erre and that all which should not beleeue euer as it beleeueth should not bee held for sound Christians and such as should not submit to her authoritie to be held Heretikes VII To hold the Pope of Rome to bee Christs Vicar and Peters successor that all should depend vpon him as vpon their Head that he as Pope cannot erre è Cathedrâ that to him as of right belongeth the spirituall and temporall iurisdiction and so hath authoritie to make Lawes to bind conscience to depose Kings and to dispose of their Kingdomes that he and his Clergy are exempt from the authoritie of Secular power VIII To hold seuen degrees of Priesthood that there are sacrifizing Priests in the time of the Gospell that all the Clergie are to liue a single life IX To set vp high and worldly dignities in the Church as Kingly Cardinals Prince-like vnpreaching Prelates and Pastors ouer Congregations not able to teach them to allow infinite Orders of Monkes Friers and Nunnes X. To beleeue that there is a Limbus Patrum a Limbus Infantium and a place called Purgatorie In their Catalogue they are to bring Christ his Apostles and all the rest therein named for teachers and professours of these things and the like else are they not to be reputed of this their present Religion Vrge them friendly Reader vnto the proofe of these particular differences till then keepe thy right standing and be not mooued with a shew of names In the meane space that thou mayest be well assured that thou art a true member of the Catholike Church of Christ though no Romane Catholike haue recourse vnto thy baptisme and the Couenant which God made with thee and thou with him therein Aske them when any of them goeth about to seduce thee whether they thinke that thou hast receiued true baptisme If they say Yea as they cannot answere truly otherwise though wee were baptized of very condemned Heretikes as the Trent Councel decreeth then demand of them againe Whether true baptisme doth admit the baptized into the true Church of God or no If it doe know of them that then being thereby receiued into the true Church why thou and wee so baptized should not still be of it in their account Will them to shew what we teach and beleeue differing from them that hath disannulled our Couenant with God and how we come to bee out of the Church The Romane Catechisme which with them is of great authority telleth vs that men are out of the Church as Infidels which neuer were in it as Heretikes Schismatiks and Excommunicated persons once of it whereto may be added such as be Apostates wholly renouncing Christ Taking this for granted that these be all and then that we be none of these it must needs follow that we are through Baptisme yet in the true Church I hope our aduersaries will not say that wee be either of the first or last sort let them cleare vs of that and wee will well enough acquit our selues of the rest I. We are not though they so call vs commonly Heretikes If they please let the Catholike Moderator pleade for vs or let them beleeue their owne moderate Answerer to whom my L. of Couentry and Lichfield maketh reply who saith that he supposeth that no one particular learned Catholike in this Kingdome doth or will defend this opinion That Protestants are Heretikes and excommunicate If these on their side will not be sufficient to cleare vs let vs learne from them what an Heretike is and so cleare our selues thereby An Heretike saith the Romane Catechisme is he which neglecting the Churches authority doth maintaine impious opinions obstinately By this wee cannot be proued to bee Heretikes this cannot agree to vs. For first we may demand What impious opinions either affirmatiue or negatiue doe we hold which they can iustly task vs of Let them instance what pleaseth them and then prooue the same to be heresie first by plaine and pregnant places of holy Scripture which may conuince the conscience of indifferēt men Secondly by general Councels or by any one generall Councell within 600. yeres after Christ in which space were most famous renowned Councels that hath condemned any maine doctrine of our Faith for heresie Thirdly by the vnanimous consent and generall voyce of the Greeke and Latine Fathers for that space condemning the same for heresie and for an impious opinion Let them if they be able shew first in our faith that wee hold any thing against any Article of our Creed which is the summe of our beliefe Secondly in our prayers any thing against the patterne of all true prayers commonly called The Lords Prayer Thirdly in our deeds which we teach to be done or bid to be left vndone any thing against any of the Commandements in the Decalogue the rule of our obedience If they can thus fairely and euidently proceede they should doe well so to conuince vs. Secondly if any impious opinions could be found among vs it must be considered whether they be broched by priuate persons or tenents held of the Church in her publike Records If the former then are they not the Churches if the Church should hold any such how can they proue that she maintaineth them obstinately For obstinacy is not to be imputed vnto vs till all lawfull good and sufficient meanes haue been vsed to conuince our iudgement and the same also by such as haue lawfull and full authority to iudge and determine thereof But hitherto this hath not been done neither can it be but by a