coulde not depute it to the Apostle So as it remaineth that he did it by his owne authoritie or at the least in the name of the rest that were ministers of the word which will not agree with our mens platforme If here exception be taken to Caluin as that in some other of his writings he is of an other minde you must bee aduertised that he beginning to write betimes did in diuers thinges vpon better aduise change his opinion And therefore in one of his epistles desireth those that wil reade his workes that they would first take the paines to reade his institutions as conteininge in them for those things there set downe his verie mind and setled iudgment But what if Beza doe in sort agree herin with Caluin Surely if I vnderstand him he doth For vpon these wordes Cum impositione manuum presbyterij id est saith he ordinis presbyterorum qu◠nomine caetus omnis ille significatur qui in verbo laborabat in ea ecclesia that is the order of Priestes or Elders by which name all that company is signified which did laboure in the word in that Church Disburden then for shame your counterfet Aldermen of this ioint-dutie in your Eldership or at the leaste let them rest vntill you be better resolued amongst your selues howe to imploie them least yow bring them within the compasse of the punishment of Corah Dathan and Abiram as I haue said before CHAP. 17. Of their Aldermens ioynt office with the ministers in binding and loosing of sinnes and of their disagreement therin COncerning their pretended authoritie equall with their ministers for their procedings are by voyces in excommunication of the stubborne and absolution of the repentant will they trouble themselues thinke you with any testimonies out of the old testament Indeede they affirme that these censures were resembled there by the authority of discerning bettwene the cleane and the vncleane betwene the holy vnholy of shutting vp the leprous and releasinge them of purginge the vncleane of cursing resembling bindding of blessing resembling loosing c. And be it so But where is there mention in any such places that your pretēded Elders had any authoritie to intermeddle with these matters Are they not throughout the whole olde testament euermore ascribed to Aaron and his sonnes Nay might any that were of other tribes then of the tribe of Leui deale heerwithal Speake franckly truly might they so Beza could find no answere to this question but Probabile est it is probable they might whereas I am perswaded there are fewe assertions of greater absurditie or of lesse probabilitie For the Leuites themselues that were not of the sonnes of Aaron had nothinge to doe in these thinges Trauers defininge what suspension is saith it is a commaundement or prohibition of an Elder of abstaininge for a certaine time from the receauing of the Sacraments For the proofe wherof he groundeth himselfe vpon this shadow as hee termeth it That by the law the vncleane and vncircumcised were prohibited the celebrating of the Passeouer entrance into the Temple Which caused saith hee Ioiada the priest to appoynt certaine porters to the gates of the Temple By which testimonies what hee else proueth then that his Elders were of the number of these Porters I finde not And that surelye agreeth best with Bezaes opion mentioned Horum proculdubio partes erant c. It was out of doubt the dutye of the Arch-rulers of the Synagogues not to admitte excommunicated persons into the Synagogues With which offices if they of that consorte will bee content to infeoffe their Aldermen and goe no further I see no cause why any man should greatly enuie them that preferment But when from dore-keepers they must be so aduaunced as that they must bee abdicators and comforters as they terme them that is more then vpon such weake collections is fit to bee allowed of For where they giue them these iointe offices with the Minister of abdicating the stubborne and of consolation of the repentant if they would speake out it is as much as though they should saie that they haue equall authoritie with them of suspension and excommunication of bindinge and loosing of retaining and remitting of sinnes No no they maie sende them to Parishgarden to loose and bind beares for they are farre vnmeet to haue anie such authoritie ouer mens soules That those which were not Bishops or Priestes that is ministers of the word and sacraments should haue that authoritie which they speake of is a matter that was neuer heard of in the Church of God for a 1500. yeares Cartwright in handling this pointe was able to bring for his purpose but one pertinent authoritie in shew out of all the auncient Fathers vz. out of Tertullian of certaine Presidents that shut offenders from praiers in the Congregation which presidents as hee well knoweth the same Tertullian saith expresslie in an other place were Ministers of the worde and sacraments in these wordes speaking of the Lordes supper Nec de aliorum manu quà m presidentium sumimus neyther do wee receaue at the handes of any other but of the gouernours It is worthie the consideration to see into what extremities men do commonlie fall that will presume to builde the Church vppon the straw and stubble of their owne deuises All the world cannot perswade the papists but that the keies of the kingdome of heauen were onely giuen to Peter and so to his successors and that from him the rest of the Apostles were to receaue them and so must their successors from the Pope Against whom we insist with the auncient Fathers that what was saide to Peter appertained to them all as namelie for one reasō in that where the keyes were promised to Peter tibi dabo I will giue them to thee when this promise was performed Christ gaue them vnto all the Apostles alike and to their successors Whose sinnes yee remit they shall be remitted and whose sinnes ye retaine they shall bee retayned which is the true vse of the keyes Now who are to be termed the Apostles successors if wee will belieue the said auncient Fathers that were in my opinion as honest and learned men as those that oppose themselues against them wee must confesse that they were at the least Ministers of the worde and sacraments and so we haue pleaded in this cause against the papists But now on the other side the world is so come about that whereas the papistes doe giue the keies but to Peter only and so to the Pope where the auntient fathers doe giue them to all the Apostles equally and so to their successors ministers as I said at the leaste now these newe start-ups will needes thrust their aldermen into that number and they must be also the Apostles successors If men will be seduced wilfully by such falseteachers they maie What a ridiculous sayinge is this of Bezaes That In persona Apostolorum the keyes
were before They abrogate the crosse of Christ. They put on an outside of grauitie and good conscience they make a marchandize of the worde and an open port-sale of the Gospell They that sometimes to our seeminge sought Reformation and the kingdome of Christ Iesus are now become of all others the most pernitious ennemies thereof dayly studyinge for newe cauills and shiftes to hide theyr wretchednes They suppose themselues to bee those seruaunts of Christ that are persecuted These disguised hypocrits these rauening wolues which come to vs in sheeps cloathing vnder glorious and swelling titles of Pastors Teachers and Ministers of the gospell men of great learninge of verye holy life and of great sinceritie seekers and sighers for reformation and such as abhorre and crye out against the Bishops and theyr proceedinges c. These pharisies these Sectaries are they which misleade the people in theyr crooked and by pathes of death and will neyther leade them nor suffer them to enter into the peaceable and straight wayes of the Lorde but keepe them alwayes learning and neuer bring them to the sight or acknowledging of the trueth These Prophets by theyr preachments and long pharisaicall prayers doe soder the people in theyr sinne and wearie God with theyr abhominable prayers and hypocritishe fastes counterfeyting a great sorrowe and heauines for theyr sinnes afflicting theyr soules for a peece of a daye bowinge downe the heade as a bulrushe Wee finde not onelye the markes of false Prophets which are recorded in the Scriptures vppon them but euen Sathans vttermost deceits and effectuall delusions amongst them suborninge and transforminge them as if they were Ministers of righteousnes taking vnto them the names and titles of Christs Ministers preachers of the gospell seekers of reformation c. whereby hee deceaueth the world These things I haue repeated not because I delight in such outragious deprauations of any that professe christianitie nay I do vtterly mislike them And it argueth of what season those vessels are froÌ„ whence they proceed But I did collect them together for this principall purpose that therein we might magnifie the iudgemeÌ„ts of God when we see apparantly with our owne eyes the execution of that his most inuiolable sentence with what measure ye meate with the same shal meÌ„ measure to you againe For although the former sorte of men in seeking of the Geneua Discipline doe set out themselues as you haue hearde for the Saincts of God as I trust some of them are and for men especially sanctified yet haue manye of them brought foorth most vnsanctified fruites cruell speaches proude things scurrilous gybes many cursings much bitternes and a huge masse of most slaunderous calumniatioÌ„s to the discrediting of those things which either they knew not or will not know them and of those persons whom they were bounde in conscience to haue reuerenced and honoured And now euen in the same manner they are repaied againe into their own bosomes as you haue heard by men of their own trayning vp and such as haue admired them vt discant non maledicere that they may learne to rayle no more CHAP. XXXIII Of the prayse and disprayse of this pretended regiment IT is founde to bee the onely bonde of peace the bane of heresie the punisher of sinne and mayntayner of righteousenes It is pure perfect full of all goodnes for the peace wealth and honor of Gods people is ordayned for the ioy and happines of all nations It is the right stuffe and golde for building the Church of Gods It is tearmed the venerable doctrine of discipline the most beautifull order of ecclesiasticall regiment The substantiaell forme of Christs gouernment Christs kingdome Gods gouernment This would make the Church a chast Spouse hauing a wonderfull brightnes as the morning fayre as the moone pure as the sunne and terrible as an armie with banners This gouerenment is the scepter whereby alone Christ Iesus ruleth amongst men The Churches of God in Denmarke Saxonie Zurich c. wanting this gouernement are to bee accounted maymed and vnperfect The establishing of the presbyteries is the full placing of Christ in his kingdome It is the blade of a shaken sworde in the hande of the Cherubins to keepe the waye of the tree of life It is called by the Apostle the grounde and piller of trueth I denye not but the true gouernment of the church by the Eldershippe may haue the most of those titles truely attributed vnto it wherewith the visible church vnder the new testament is adorned God hath ordayned the ciuile magistrate for the ecclesiasticall state therefore is the supreme kingdome of God in this world It is the chiefe throne of all excellencie wherein God him selfe doth sit The politicall Empyre is but a subalterne regiment et quasi inferius quoddaÌ„ subsellium as it were an vnder Court that determineth and decideth iniuries strifes and contentions c. idque ad ecclesiasticae oeconomiae praescriptum and by the commaundement of the ecclesiasticall gouernement Those Ministers that preferre the ciuile magistrate before the Ecclesiasticall they flatter him for profit and theyr bellies sake and do shamefuâ—ly to the daunger of theyr owne soules deceiue him The Ecclesiasticall discipline est inspectatrix et custos the ouerseer and keeper of the ciuile regiment that the magistrate doe not commaund his subiects any thing eyther contrarye to Gods worde or against nature and honest manners It is true that was begonne to bee affirmed vz. that the spirituall iurisdiction doth in price and dignitie so farre ouerweigh the politicall as the soule excelleth the bodye The spirirituall and ecclesiasticall gouernement by Pastors Doctors and Elders is as much superiour and more worthy then the politicke regiment as heauenlye benefittes doe excell earthly commodities Presbyterium est interpres Dei the presbyterie is Gods interpreter The Eldership may bee called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is bodilie an Angell The Presbytery is erected vp pro Christi tribunali for Christs tribunall seate Hee that will reade of the further commendation of this manner of Church-gouernement let him peruse some parts of Trauerses defence of the Ecclesiasticall discipline One thing I maie not omit for the which he extolleth some reformed Churches as hee tearmeth them where the Elderships doe most florish aboue the Skies insomuch as hee saith the examples of it might make an Infidell and vnbeleiuer fall downe on his face and confesse that vndoubtedlye God is amongst them and in the middest of those churches I dare saie you are desirous to know what rare excellent and celestiall thing that shold bee which is sufficient to woorke such a wonder You haue heard howe Rennichere hath exalted their Elderships or new papacie aboue all kings and kingdomes and now you shall see a singular proofe of it To keepe you in suspence
But I will come to their first skippe which is in effect from the yeare aboue mentioned 1541. vnto the Apostles time backward For as I remember I haue read it in one of their bookes that in all the auncient fathers you shall finde a little but as it were of the ruines of it But the ruines of it in all the auncient fathers What lucke had they that the building of so gorgeous a peece of worke stoode not in their daies as now it standeth in Geneua that they might haue seene the bewtie and the glory of it If it were so ruinate before the times wherein the ancient fathers liued then surely it will followe in spite of whosoeuer saith nay that it is of greater antiquitie then all the fathers were of But I maruaile howe it grewe into such ruine before their times For to my vnderstanding the Apostles times were next before the time of the auncient fathers The learned discourser will help vs for this plunge out of the bryers The ecclesiasticall offices saith hee namely of Pastors Doctors Gouernours and Deacons were exercised in the primatiue and pure Church vntill the mysterie of iniquities working a way for Antichristes pride and presumption changed Gods ordinance c. And when was that The mistery of iniquitie began to worke in the Apostles dayes Was it then Peraduenture hee meaneth that immediatly after the Apostles times there was some age wherin there liued no ancient fathers and that then this mischiefe was wrought I would it had pleased him to haue deuised such a prouiso in the behalfe of those most notable men manie of them very godly and holy Martirs But the discourser was as it seemeth a plain man he will lay the fault where it was as indeed it is reason that euery man should beare his owne burden Heare him therefore againe Our fathers of olde time were not content with the simple order instituted by Christ and established by his Apostles but for better gouerning of the Church thought good some offices to adde thereunto some to take away some to alter and change and in effect to peruert and ouerthrow all christian and Ecclesiasticall pollicy which was builded vppon the foundation of the Prophetes and Apostles Iesus Christ being the chiefe corner stone A strange conceite that all the auncient fathers should thus conspire to thrust Christ out of his kingdome and to ouerthrowe all Christian pollicy What not a man amongest them as learned and as godly affected as either Caluin Beza or this discourser Not one in those ages that would stand to Christes Discipline A pittifull case But I promise you for my parte I rather doubt of the discoursers credite in this point then that I will thinke there should be such dishonesty in the auncient Fathers Nay I durst certainly sweare it that if there had beene any such gouernment of Christ in their daies they would haue beene as carefull for the continuance of it as any of the purest platformers in Christendome Trauers in his Booke of Ecclesiasticall Discipline maketh eight degres of the declination of this new pretended regiment to haue growne before the Councell of Nice procured as he saith cunningly by Sathan but yet so that as he addeth there are euidences to be shewed of sondry partes of it in the writinges of the auncient Fathers c and that also in this age it is exercised in Fraunce the low Countries and in Scotland All out of square from the Apostles times till Geneua was illuminated Some blinde euidences there may be found he saith for sundry parts of that Discipline whereby a man may conceaue that there was once such a thing in being Wel yet if that were true the auncient Fathers deserue some little commendation in that they were content to leaue some scroules or shiuers of it vnto their posterity To the same purpose also in another place the same party confesseth that the ordinary offices as he tearmeth them in the Apostles times haue beene nowe of many yeares out of vse either in part or altogether afore the last restoring of the Gospell in this age A great leap as I think from the Apostles time to this ourage If I had framed the scope of my second Chapter after this mans pleasure I might as you see haue safely set it downe with Trauerse consent that from the Apostles times till maister Caluin was fully placed in Geneua the now pretended order forme of Ecclesiasticall Discipline was not to haue beene found in all the world Maister Cartwright though he say in his first Booke that the Eldership did most florish in Constantines time and defendeth the same in the secōd part of his 2. reply sauing that he leaueth out the word most with such shifting and falshood as I durst make any learned mā iudge of his dealing therein yet I say in his Table to the first part of his second reply and also in the second part therof he acknowledgeth in effect to my vnderstanding that of the Elderships declining there are to be found in the Fathers but certaine traces and marks whereby we might come to the knowledge of it and vnderstand that certaine Churches as at Alexandria went out of the way As if he should haue sayd looke how a man seeketh for a Hare in the snow and seldome findeth her till he come to her forme so you must seeke for the Eldership as now it is vrged in the auncient Fathers still pricking after it till hauing runne past all them you come to the forme of it in the Apostles times Or as if he had said the best vse that a man can haue eyther of the auncient fathers or of the Ecclesiasticall writers is this concerning the Geneuian Discipline that a man by them may learne when men goe out of their right way but how to get in againe when we are once out if you wil haue any direction for that point you must either goe to Geneua or to him or to some of his fellows There goeth the Hare away for the Fathers cannot helpe you But belieue me such is my dulnes as I doe not wel discerne how these words of Cartwrights will stand well together with those of the Elderships flourishing in Constantines time seeing now in the auncient Fathers we haue so little of it vz. onely as it were some few markes traces or footesteps of a thing which had beene and was gone before their times For as concerning the state of the Church in Constantines time there are whole Cart-loads of most pregnant euidences in the auncient Fathers of it yet but traces as he saith or empty steps in them for his Eldership In effect as if he had saide the Geneua Discipline flourished most when it was not One that hath sent vs a printed Book out of Scotland taking vppon him to know belike the mindes of all the Scottishe Ministers that seeke for the pretended Discipline as concerning the time how
were giuen Omnibus veris presbyteris to all true Priests or Elders including in that number his vnpriestlie Eldermen Againe vpon these words of christ the keyes c. Hac metaphorica loquutione significatur oeconomi potestas Esa 22 22. qua funguntur omnes ministri in ecclesia dei vt apparet infra 18 18. By this metaphoricall speech is signified that power of Christ mentioned in Esay the key of the house of Dauid I will lay vppon his shoulders loe hee shall open and no man shall shut and hee shall shut and no man shall open which power all the Ministers in the Church of God doe enioye as it appeareth in Mathew Whatsoeuer ye binde in earth shall bee bound in heauen and whatsoeuer ye loose on earth shall bee loosed in heauen And vppon that place of Mathew the 18 Chapter and in manie other places by the Church and those binders and loosers there spoken of hee vnderstandeth his Eldership so consequently aswell his Aldermen as the Ministers of the worde Hee that with an open face to vse Cartwrightes terme doth affirme that either in Mathew the 16. 15. or in the place of Esay mentioned these vnpreaching Elders were ment or prefigured needeth not I warrant him at any time a vizard Indeed maister Cartwright is not of Bezaes mind herein For saith he in Math. 16. and in Ioh. 20. Christ vnder standeth that euery one of the ministers bindeth looseth by preaching but the wordes Math. 18.18 cannot bee drawen to the particular person of the minister Surelye you haue sponne a faire thredde For if your Aldermen be not aswell vnderstoode in the wordes of Christ Vnto thee I will giue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen as in these Whatsoeuer yee binde on earth shall bee bound in heauen and whatsoeuer ye loose on earth shall be loosed in heauen It will fall out that they will haue no keies either to open or shut withall except peraduenture you will make your lockes with a springe and so indeed they maie shutte the dore but for openinge of it they maie blowe their nailes Heere you see Beza and Cartwright opposite and now you shall haue a fellow to impugne them both in a Theologicall position printed at Geneua sette out by Ant. Fayus and maintained there by one Danyell Niellius out of Math. 16.19 thus saith hee wee may reason To them onely the power of binding and loosing is giuen vnto whom the keyes of the kingdome of heauen are giuen for to haue binding and loosing is that same that it is to haue the keyes of the kingdome of heauen but vnto Peter the keyes were giuen and vnto them in whose name Peter aunswereth Christ demaunding whom the Iewes sayd hee was And because they were giuen ratione officij in regarde of his office it followeth that they were giuen to al qui in veritatis doctrina predicanda sunt ipsis successuri Who in preaching the doctrine of truth shall succeed them By these wordes then their disguised Aldermen must either haue assigned vnto them the same office that the Apostles had be made preachers or else they may put vp their pipes and goe shake their eares But yet more plainly we are aduertised in the same place from Geneua out of Iohn 20.23 We may also inferre after this sorte Christ after hee sent his Apostles as he was sent of the father he breathed on them the holy Ghost saying whose sinnes ye remit they shal be remitted whose sinnes ye retaine they shall be retayned To all them therefore and onely to them who are sent that authoritie is giuen But the Apostles onely are not sent For it is Christ who ascending into heauen gaue to his Church Pastors and Doctors and altogether to that end and for handling that worke Ephes. 4.11.13 Now ioyne both these inferences with that which Beza Cartwright haue before set downe and let him for mee beare the bell for a reconciler of contrarieties that is able in anie probable sorte to make anie one of them friendes with another or for euer hereafter to agree together And yet I know that they of Geneua can do much You must bring them very strange discords but they will make some harmonie of them Whereas the confessions of Bohemia of Augusta and the Apologie of the Church of England doe a cribe these censures wee speake of to the Priestes or Ministers of the word onely the Geneuians to make the world beleeue that in effect all the reformed Churches doe agree with that of theirs and with those other that weare her cullors will needes take vpon them in their annotations ioyned to the ende of their harmony to expouÌ„d the meaning of the said confessions how they must be rightly vnderstoode As for example it is committed to the ministers of the wordâ— saith the confession of Augusta excludere impios c. aâ—communione ecclesiae to exclude the wicked c. from the communioÌ„ of the church Nimirum that is to say affirme the Geneuians ex presbiterij legitimè congregati fententia c. according to the sentence of the Eldership lawfully assembled whereas it neuer as yet set vp any such Eldership Againe the said confession Hic necessario c. heere the Church must yeeld them due obedience meaning to the sayde ministers so excluding the wicked Nempe come in the Geneuians verbi ministris senioribus that is to say to the Ministers of the worde and to the Elders who were neuer allowed of by that confession to this purpose pretended The Apologie of the Church of England hauing shewed that the administration of the keyes doth onely belong to ministers of the worde and that Sacerdos that is the Bishop as I thinke hee meaneth for the execution of these censures is the iudge Sacerdos that is say the Geneuians vnus designatus ex pastorum collegio one chosen out of the Colledge of Pastors Deinde etiam intelligiturpraeire quum de censuris ecclesiasticis agitur legâ—tinam presbyterij cognitionem And furthermore also let it be vnderstoode when speache is of the ecclesiasticall censure that there goeth before a lawfull determination of the Eldership Whether the Apologie haue that meaning the meanest of any sense at all may iudge And thus they deale also with the Bohemian confession So that as I sayd to serue their purposes they can make ex quo libet quid libet of any thing what they list And by these examples ye may also safely learne what credite is to be giuen in this cause both to them and all the rest of that humour when they would seeme to alledge eyther scriptures Councels or Fathers for their most vnwarrantable and counterfeit Aldermen But if it were graunted vnto them for a moneth or two that their Eldermen should be ioyned with the ministers of the worde and haue an equall authoritie with them of binding and loosing would they content themselues therewithall It is
afterwardes to confer of the faultes or defects which are found in the young preacher and to tell him of them that he may amend them Certainely if these men had beene suffered to haue runne on foreward I feare they would haue runne madde What speculations be these All their Elders must be such men as Sainct Paul requireth a Bishop to be they must be able to preach in their Consistories and priuately And now you must haue in euery parish diuerse young men such as are meet for the exercises of Diuinity before they be admitted And where will they haue all these It was precisely saide of Maister Cartwright vz. thus in effect Neuer let that trouble you set vp the Eldership choose your Elders c. God wil make them fit for their charges vpon a soddain It had been verie prouidentlie handled of him if he had likewise taught the people that they should neuer haue sticked for anie cost which they were to bestow for the maintenance of the said Church-officers though they should bee twise as many because in bestowing their goods after that sorte God will make them rich and fill their tubbes their oile bottles their barns and their purses vpon the soddaine It was but a simple suite made by the author of the complaint of the comminalty that as the Papistes builte Seminaries to aduaunce the kingdome of the Diuell so there might be more Colledges and Seminaries of true Religion erected For now you see it is appointed that there shalbe such a Seminarie in euery parish And how the coiners of this deuise did euer grow into anie such conceite I cannot certainelie gesse except it bee because there is such a kinde of Schoole or Seminarie in Geneua Indeed when the State there had seazed vppon the Church-liuinges they erected a Schoole with some small allowance according as our English prouerbe runneth of taking away a goose and sticking down a feather The profit which they haue by the one exceedeth far the charge of the other If now our men could inuent such a way for euery parish peraduenture they might bee heard They talke indeede of a matter how to haue their Elderships with all the appertenannces thereunto belonging and yet not greatly to ouercharge any parishes But it is not after the fashion of Geneua There the Magistrates fleeced the church but they would haue all themselues the Bishops liuinges Cathedrall Churches Impropriations and rather then faile all the Abbaie landes and such thinges as did belong to all the rest of the houses of Religion If any parish in England should aske my counsell whether I thought they might safely enter into such a present charge for the maintenance of so many Pastor Doctor Elders Deacons Widdowes Ministers wiues their children and poor Students of Diuinities in hope that all the saide Church-liuings should be bestowed for their ease vpon such their Church officers I should say vnto them if I spake my conscience that I my selfe am far from anie such cogitation No no for al the outcries that the Disciplinarians make as in the next chapter you shall perceiue that all the Church-liuings might bee emploide to the maintenaunce of them and their Elderships well they may procure in some other age the further impouerishing of the Church but they shall be sure to be little the better for it CHAP. XXI Of their desire that those thinges which haue beene taken by Sacriledge from the Church might be restored againe to the maintenance of their Elderships EXperience they say is not a foolishe mistres but a mistres of fooles In the beginning of the late reformation of Religion in most places of Europe diuers notable mē did gretly ouershoote themselues It is Aristotles rule that one waie to come to the meane is to proceed ab extremo in extremum from one extremity to another And it may holde in the example by him alledged of making a crooked sticke to be straight but it is not to be allowed of in anie sort in the course of Diuinitie There it is reckned a point of great weaknes and so it is also with the prophane writers to run from one extremitie to another Manie examples I could bring of this weakenes as how in manie places men haue leapt from auricular confession to the contempt of all priuate conference with their Pastor from pharifaicall long praiers vppon a paire of beades three or foure times said ouer by tale at one time to little praier at all two or three words if so manie and farewel agreable to mens consciences euen as the Prouerb faith A short horse is soone curried from most gros and palpable Idolatrie and superstition vnto verie great securitie and prophanation Manie other such examples I might alledge of running from one mischiefe to another but there is none fitter then of the course which hath beene held in this verie matter whereof I intreate In times past men thought they could not giue too much to the church but now many suppose they cānot take too much frō the Church In times past there was so much giuen to the church that the k. of England was fain to make a lawe for the staie of so great liberality as Moses did when there was sufficient prouision made for the building of the temple but now mens harts are grown to such a contrary extremitie and are so far from incurring any danger in breaking that law for restraining thē as notwithstanding her most excellent M. hath cōtinued made her self very many notable laws that the church might keepe that which other men hath giuen her and for the binding of mē to pay their duties to the Church yet euerie man seeth how vnder pretence of concealements and by many other meanes the Church-goods are thirsted after and how the poore ministers are most pittifully defrauded in the paiment of such duties as do belong vnto them Insomuch by report as now in sondrie places if they shal but seek or sue to haue their own either they are greatlie misliked or presentlie are indited for common Barators or if they escape that out flieth a prohibition from one place a sequestration frō another and I know not what else nor from whence And the cause of these many other such extremities I doe not impute so much vnto the laitie as to sundrie men of the Clergie whose proceedings haue ben greatly by extremities It was an extremitie when Wickliffe affirmed that tithes appointed by God himselfe were merae eleemosynae meere almes But of all extremities that passeth where some now a daies would haue all taken from the Church that so Ministers might liue as they did in the Apostles times that is onelie vppon voluntarie contributions And this they thinke to be a part of the Apostolicall reformatiō which they seek for Wherunto I for my part might peraduenture yeelde if the laitie would be sworne before they tooke that from vs which we haue alreadie to deale with vs indeed for