Doctrine of Nestorius that there were two Persons in Christ. The fourth held at Chalcedon condemned the error of Eutyches that there was but one Nature in Christ. I know of no other Points condemned in these four Councils but such as concern Church-Government or the same Doctrines taught by other Men in other words and these Councils were all called by the Emperors and by them their Decrees confirmed at the Petition of the Councils themselves A. I see by this that both the calling of the Council and the Confirmation of their Doctrine and Church-Government had no obligatory force but from the Authority of the Emperor How comes it then to pass that they take upon them now a Legislative Power and say their Canons are Laws That Text All Power is given to me in Heaven and Earth had the same force then as it hath now and conferred a Legislative Power on the Councils not only over Christian Men but over all Nations in the World B. They say no for the Power they pretend to is derived from this that when a King was converted from Gentilisme to Christianity he did by that very submission to the Bishop that converted him submit to the Bishops Government and became one of his Sheep which Right therefore he could not have over any Nation that was not Christian. A. Did Sylvester which was Pope of Rome in the time of Constantine the great converted by him tell the Emperor his new Disciple before hand that if he became a Christian he must be the Popes Subject B. I believe not for it is likely enough if he had told him so plainly or but made him suspect it he would either have been no Christian at all or but a counterfeit one A. But if he did not tell him so and that plainly it was foul play not only in a Priest but in any Christian and for this derivation of their Right from the Emperors consent it proceeds only from this that they dare not challenge a Legislative Power nor call their Canons Laws in any Kingdom in Christendome farther than the Kings make them so But in Peru when Atabalipa was King the Frier told him that Christ being King of all the World had given the disposing of all the Kingdoms therein to the Pope and that the Pope had given Peru to the Roman Emperor Charles the 5 th and requir'd Atabalipa to resign it and for refusing it seized upon his person by the Spanish Army there present and murdered him you see by this how much they claim when they have power to make it good B. When began the Popes to take this Authority upon them first A. After the Inundation of Northern People had overflowed the Western parts of the Empire and possessed themselves of Italy the People of the City of Rome submitted themselves as well in Temporals as Spirituals to their Bishop and then first was the Pope a Temporal Prince and stood no more in so great fear of the Emperors which lived far off at Constantinople In this time it was that the Pope began by pretence of his Power Spiritual to encroach upon the Temporal Rights of all other Princes of the West and so continued gaining upon them till his Power was at the highest in that 300 years or thereabout which passed between the 8 th and 11 th Century that is between the time of Pope Leo the third and Pope Innocent the third For in this time Pope Zachary the first deposed Chilperic then King of France and gave the Kingdom to one of his Subjects Pepin and Pepin took from the Lombards a great part of their Territory and gave it to the Church Shortly after the Lombards having recover'd their Estate Charles the Great retook it and gave it to the Church again and Pope Leo the third made Charles Emperor B. But what Right did the Pope then pretend for the creating of an Emperor A. He pretended the Right of being Christ's Vicar and what Christ could give his Vicar might give and you know that Christ was King of all the World B. Yes as God and so he gives all the Kingdoms of the World which nevertheless proceed from the consent of People either for fear or hope A. But this Gift of the Empire was in a more special manner in such a manner as Moses had the Government of Israel given him or rather as Joshuah had it given him to go in and out before the People as the High-Priest should direct him and so the Empire was understood to be given him on condition to be directed by the Pope for when the Pope invested him with the Regal Ornaments the People all cried out Deus dat that is to say 't is God that gives it and the Emperor was contented so to take it And from that time all or most of the Christian Kings do put into their Titles the words Dei gratia that is by the Gift of God and their Successors use still to receive the Crown and Scepter from a Bishop B. 'T is certainly a very good Custom for Kings to be put in mind by whose Gift they Reign but it cannot from that Custom be inferr'd that they receive the Kingdom by mediation of the Pope or by any other Clergy for the Popes themselves receiv'd the Papacy from the Emperor The first that ever was elected Bishop of Rome after Emperors were Christians and without the Emperors consent excused himself by Letters to the Emperor with this That the People and Clergy of Rome forced him to take it upon him and prayed the Emperor to confirm it which the Emperor did but with reprehension of their proceedings and prohibition of the like for the time to come The Emperor was Lotharius and the Pope Calixtus the first A. You see by this the Emperor never acknowledged this Gift of God was the Gift of the Pope but maintained the Popedom was the Gift of the Emperor but in process of time by the negligence of the Emperors for the greatness of Kings makes them that they cannot easily descend into the obscure and narrow Mines of an ambitious Clergy they found means to make the People believe there was a Power in the Pope and Clergy which they ought to submit unto rather than to the Commands of their own Kings whensoever it should come into controversie And to that end devised and decreed many new Articles of Faith to the diminution of the Authority of Kings and to the disjunction of them and their Subjects and to a closer adherence of their Subjects to the Church of Rome Articles either not at all found in or not well founded upon the Scriptures As first that it should not be lawful for a Priest to marry B. What influence could that have upon the Power of Kings A. Do you not see that by this the King must of necessity either want the Priesthood and therewith a great part of the Reverence due to him from the most religious part of his Subjects or
of the Jus Divinum of Bishops a thing which before the Reformation here was never allowed them by the Pope Two Jus Divinums cannot stand together in one Kingdom In the last place he mislikes that the Church should Excommunicate by Authority of the King that is to say by Authority of the Head of the Church But he tells not why He might as well mislike that the Magistrates of the Realm should execute their Offices by the Authority of the Head of the Realm His Lordship was in a great error if he thought such incroachments would add any thing to the Wealth Dignity Reverence or Continuance of his Order They are Pastors of Pastors but yet they are the Sheep of him that is on earth their soveraign Pastor and he again a Sheep of that supream Pastor which is in Heaven And if they did their pastoral Office both by Life and Doctrine as they ought to do there could never arise any dangerous Rebellion in the Land But if the people see once any ambition in their Teachers they will sooner learn that than any other Doctrine and from Ambition proceeds Rebellion J. D. It may be some of T. H. his Disciples desire to know what hopes of Heavenly joyes they have upon their Masters Principles They may hear them without any great contentment There is no mention in Scripture nor ground in reason of the Coelum Empyraeum that is the Heaven of the Blessed where the Saints shall live eternally with God And again I have not found any Text that can probably be drawn to prove any Ascention of the Saints into Heaven that is to say into any Coelum Empyraeum But he concludeth positively that Salvation shall be upon earth when God shall Raign at the coming of Christ in Jerusalem And again In short the Kingdom of God is a civil Kingdom c. called also the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of Glory All the Hobbians can hope for is to be restored to the same condition which Adam was in before his fall So saith T.H. himself From whence may be inferred that the Elect after the Resurrection shall be restored to the estate wherein Adam was before he had sinned As for the beatifical vision he defineth it to be a word unintelligible T. H. This Coelum Empyraeum for which he pretendeth so much zeal where is it in the Scripture where in the Book of Common Prayer where in the Canons where in the Homilies of the Church of England or in any part of our Religion What has a Christian to do with such Language Nor do I remember it in Aristotle Perhaps it may be in some Schoolman or Commentator on Aristotle and his Lordship makes it in English the Heaven of the Blessed as if Empyraeum signified That which belongs to the Blessed St. Austin says better that after the day of Judgment all that is not Heaven shall be Hell Then for Beatifical vision how can any man understand it that knows from the Scripture that no man ever saw or can see God Perhaps his Lordship thinks that the happiness of the Life to come is not real but a Vision As for that which I say Lev. pag. 345. I have answered to it already J. D. But considering his other Principles I do not marvel much at his extravagance in this point To what purpose should a Coelum Empyraeum or Heaven of the Blessed serve in his judgment who maketh the blessed Angels that are the Inhabitants of that happy Mansion to be either Idols of the brain that is in plain English nothing or thin subtil fluid bodies destroying the Angelical nature The universe being the aggregate of all bodies there is no real part thereof that is not also body And elsewhere Every part of the Vniverse is Body and that which is not Body is no part of the Vniverse And because the Vniverse is all that which is no part of it is nothing and consequently no where How By this Doctrine he maketh not only the Angels but God himself to be nothing Neither doth he salve it at all by supposing erroneously Angels to be corporeal Spirits and by attributing the name of incorporeal Spirit to God as being a name of more honour in whom we consider not what Attribute best expresseth his nature which is incomprehensible but what best expresseth our desire to honour him Though we be not able to comprehend perfectly what God is yet we are able perfectly to comprehend what God is not that is he is not imperfect and therefore he is not finite and consequently he is not corporeal This were a trim way to honour God indeed to honour him with a lye If this that he say here be true That every part of the Vniverse is a Body and whatsoever is not a Body is nothing Then by this Doctrine if God be not a Body God is nothing not an incorporeal Spirit but one of the Idols of the Brain a meer nothing though they think they dance under a Net and have the blind of Gods incomprehensibility between them and discovery T. H. This of Incorporeal substance he urged before and there I answered it I wonder he so often rolls the same stone He is like Sysiphus in the Poets Hell that there rolls a heavy stone up a hill which no sooner he brings to day-light then it slips down again to the bottom and serves him so perpetually For so his Lordship rolls this and other questions with much adoe till they come to the light of Scripture and then they vanish and he vexing sweating and railing goes to 't again to as little purpose as before From that I say of the Universe he infers that I make God to be nothing But infers it absurdly He might indeed have inferr'd that I make him a Corporeal but yet a pure Spirit I mean by the Universe the Aggregate of all things that have being in themselves and so do all men else And because God has a being it follows that he is either the whole Universe or part of it Nor does his Lordship go about to disprove it but only seems to wonder at it J. D. To what purpose should a Coelum Empyraeum serve in his Judgment who denyeth the immortality of the Soul The Doctrine is now and hath been a long time far otherwise namely that every man hath eternity of life by nature in as much as his Soul is immortal Who supposeth that when a man dyeth there remaineth nothing of him but his Carkase who maketh the word Soul in holy Scripture to signifie always either the Life or the Living Creature And expoundeth the casting of Body and Soul into Hell-fire to be the casting of Body and Life into Hell-fire Who maketh this Orthodox truth that the Souls of men are Substances distinct from their Bodies to be an error contracted by the contagion of the Demonology of the Greeks and a window that gives entrance to the dark Doctrine of eternal torments Who expoundeth these words
when they sent unto him 19 Propositions whereof above a dozen were Demands of several Powers essential parts of the Power Sovereign But before that time they had demanded some of them in a Petition which they called a Petition of Right which nevertheless the King had granted them in a former Parliament though he deprived himself thereby not only of the Power to levy Money without their consent but also of his ordinary Revenue by Custom of Tonnage and Poundage and of the Liberty to put into Custody such Men as he thought likely to disturb the Peace and raise Sedition in the Kingdom As for the Men that did this 't is enough to say they were the Members of the last Parliament and of some other Parliaments in the beginning of King Charles and the end of King James his Reign to name them all is not necessary farther than the Story shall require Most of them were Members of the House of Commons some few also of the Lords but all such as had a great opinion of their sufficiency in Politicks which they thought was not sufficiently taken notice of by the King B. How could the Parliament when the King had a great Navy and a great number of Train'd Soldiers and all the Magazines of Ammunition in his power be able to begin the War A. The King had these things indeed in his right but that signifies little when they that had the Custody of the Navy and Magazines and with them all the Train'd Soldiers and in a manner all his Subjects were by the preaching of Presbyterian Ministers and the seditious whisperings of false and ignorant Politicians made his Enemies And when the King could have no Money but what the Parliament should give him which you may be sure should not be enough to maintain his Regal Power which they intended to take from him And yet I think they would never have adventured into the Field but for that unlucky business of imposing upon the Scots who were all Presbyterians our Book of Common-Prayer for I believe the English would never have taken well that the Parliament should make War upon the King upon any provocation unless it were in their own defence in case the King should first make War upon them and therefore it behooved them to provoke the King that he might do something that might look like Hostility It happened in the Year 1637. that the King by the Advice as it is thought of the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury sent down a Book of Common-Prayer into Scotland not differing in substance from ours nor much in words besides the putting of the word Presbyter for that of Minister commanding it to be used for conformity to this Kingdom by the Ministers there for an ordinary Form of Divine Service This being read in the Church at Edenburgh caused such a Tumult there that he that read it had much ado to escape with his life and gave occasion to the greatest part of the Nobility and others to enter by their own Authority into a Covenant amongst themselves which impudently they called a Covenant with God to put down Episcopacy without consulting with the King which they presently did animated thereto by their own confidence or by assurance from some of the Democratical English-men that in former Parliaments had been the greatest opposers of the King's Interest that the King would not be able to raise an Army to chastise them without calling a Parliament which would be sure to favour them For the thing which those Domocraticals chiefly then aimed at was to force the King to call a Parliament which he had not done of ten years before as having found no help but hinderance to his Designs in the Parliaments he had formerly called Howsoever contrary to their expectation by the help of his better affected Subjects of the Nobility and Gentry he made a shift to raise a sufficient Army to have reduced the Scots to their former obedience if it had proceeded to battle and with this Army he marched himself into Scotland where the Scotch Army was also brought into the Field against him as if they meant to fight but then the Scoth sent to the King for leave to treat by Commissioners on both sides and the King willing to avoid the destruction of his own Subjects condescended to it The Issue was peace and the King thereupon went to Edenburgh and passed an Act of Parliament there to their satisfaction B. Did he not then confirm Episcopacy A. No but yielded to the abolishing of it but by this means the English were cross'd in their hope of a Parliament but the said Democraticals formerly opposers of the King's Interest ceased not to endeavour still to put the two Nations into a War to the end the King might buy the Parliaments help at no less a price than Sovereignty it self B. But what was the cause that the Gentry and Nobility of Scotland were so averse from the Episcopacy for I can hardly believe that their Consciences were extraordinarily tender nor that they were so very great Divines as to know what was the true Church-discipline established by our Saviour and his Apostles nor yet so much in love with their Ministers as to be over-rul'd by them in the Government either Ecclesiastical or Civil for in their lives they were just as other Men are pursuers of their own Interests and Preferments wherein they were not more opposed by the Bishops than by their Presbyterian Ministers A. Truly I do not know I cannot enter into other Mens thoughts farther than I am led by the consideration of Humane Nature in general But upon this consideration I see first that Men of ancient Wealth and Nobility are not apt to brook that poor Scholars should as they must when they are made Bishops be their fellows Secondly That from the Emulation of Glory between the Nations they might be willing to see this Nation afflicted by Civil War and might hope by aiding the Rebels here to acquire some power over the English at least so far as to establish here the Presbyterian Discipline which was also one of the Points they afterwards openly demanded Lastly They might hope for in the War some great Sum of Money as a reward of their assistance besides great booty which they afterwards obtained But whatsoever was the cause of their hatred to Bishops the pulling of them down was not all they aimed at If it had now that Episcopacy was abolished by Act of Parliament they would have rested satisfied which they did not for after the King was returned to London the English Presbyterians and Democraticals by whose favour they had put down Bishops in Scotland thought it reason to have the assistance of the Scotch for the pulling down of Bishops in England And in order thereunto they might perhaps deal with the Scots secretly to rest unsatisfied with that Pacification which they were before contented with Howsoever it was not long after the King was returned to London
of Henry the third the Lords were descended most of them from such as in the Invasions and Conquests of the Germans were Peers and Fellow-Kings till one was made King of them all and their Tenants were their Subjects as it is at this day with the Lords of France but after the time of Henry the third the Kings began to make Lords in the place of them whose Issue failed Titulary only without the Lands belonging to their Title and by that means their Tenants being no longer bound to serve them in the Wars they grew every day less and less able to make a Party against the King though they continued still to be his Great Councel And as their Power decreased so the Power of the House of Commons increased but I do not find they were part of the King's Councel at all nor Judges over other men though it cannot be denied but a King may ask their advice as well as the advice of any other but I do not find that the end of their summoning was to give advice but only in case they had any Petitions for redress of Grievances to be ready there with them whilst the King had his Great Councel about him But neither they nor the Lords could present to the King as a Grievance That the King took upon him to make the Laws To choose his own Privy-Councellors To raise Money and Soldiers To defend the Peace and Honour of the Kingdom To make Captains in his Army To make Governours of his Castles whom he pleased for this had been to tell the King that it was one of their Grievances that he was King B. What did the Parliament do whilst the King was in Scotland A. The King went in August after which the Parliament September the 8 th adjourned till the 20 th of October and the King return'd about the end of November following in which time the most seditious of both Houses and which had design'd the change of Government and to cast off Monarchy but yet had not wit enough to set up any other Government in its place and consequently left it to the chance of War made a Cabal amongst themselves in which they projected how by seconding one another to govern the House of Commons and invented how to put the Kingdom by the power of that House into a Rebellion which they then called a posture of Defence against such dangers from abroad as they themselves should feign and publish Besides whilst the King was in Scotland the Irish Papists got together a great Party with an intention to Massacre the Protestants there and had laid a Design for the seizing of Dublin Castle in October the 20 th where the King's Officers of the Government of that Countrey made their Residence and had effected it had it not been discovered the night before The manner of the Discovery and the Murders they committed in the Country afterwards I need not tell you since the whole Story of it is extant B. I wonder they did not expect and provide for a Rebellion in Ireland as soon as they began to quarrel with the King in England for was there any body so ignorant as not to know that the Irish Papists did long for a change of Religion there as well as the Presbyterians in England Or that in general the Irish Nation did hate the name of Subjection to England Or would longer be quiet than they feared an Army out of England to chastise them What better time then could they take for their Rebellion than this wherein they were encouraged not only by our weakness caused by this division between the King and his Parliament but also by the Example of the Presbyterians both of the Scotch and English Nation But what did the Parliament do upon this occasion in the King's absence A. Nothing but consider what use they might make of it to their own ends partly by imputing it to the King 's evil Counsellors and partly by occasion thereof to demand of the King the power of pressing and ordering of Soldiers which power whosoever has has also without doubt the whole Sovereignty B. When came the King back A. He came back the 25 th of November and was welcomed with the Acclamations of the Common People as much as if he had been the most beloved of all the Kings that were before him but found not a Reception by the Parliament answerable to it They presently began to pick new quarrels against him out of every thing he said to them December the second the King called together both Houses of Parliament and then did only recommend unto them the raising of Succors for Ireland B. What quarrel could they pick out of that A. None but in order thereto as they may pretend they had a Bill in agitation to assert the Power of Levying and Pressing Soldiers to the two Houses of the Lords and Commons which was as much as to take from the King the Power of the Militia which is in effect the whole Sovereign Power for he that hath the power of Levying and Commanding of the Soldiers has all other Rights of Sovereignty which he shall please to claim The King hearing of it called the Houses of Parliament together again on December the 14 th and then pressed again the business of Ireland as there was need for all this while the Irish were murdering of the English in Ireland and strengthening themselves against the Forces they expected to come out of England and withal told them he took notice of the Bill in agitation for pressing of Soldiers and that he was contented it should pass with a Salvo Jure both for him and them because the present time was unseasonable to dispute it in B. What was there unreasonable in this A. Nothing What 's unreasonable is one question what they quarrel'd at is another They quarrel'd at this That his Majesty took notice of the Bill while it was in debate in the House of Lords before it was presented to him in the course of Parliament and also that he shewed himself displeas'd with those that propounded the said Bill both which they declared to be against the Priviledges of Parliament and petitioned the King to give them reparation against those by whose evil Counsel he was induced to it that they might receive condign punishment B. This was cruel proceeding Do not the Kings of England use to sit in the Lords House when they please And was not this Bill in debate then in the House of Lords It is a strange thing that a Man should be lawfully in the company of Men where he must needs hear and see what they say and do and yet must not take notice of it so much as to the same company for though the King was not present at the Debate it self yet it was lawful for any of the Lords to make him acquainted with it Any one of the House of Commons though not present at a Proposition or Debate in
when the Parliament was ended and the favour shewed to Papists by Secretary Windebank and others B. All this will go current with common People for misgovernment and for faults of the King 's though some of them were misfortunes and both the misfortunes and the misgovernment if any were were the faults of the Parliament who by denying to give him Money did both frustrate his Attempts abroad and put him upon those extraordinary ways which they call Illegal of raising Money at home A. You see what a heap of evils they have raised to make a shew of ill government to the People which they second with an enumeration of the many Services they have done the King in overcoming a great many of them though not all and in divers other things and say that though they had contracted a Debt to the Scots of 2200 l. and granted six Subsidies and a Bill of Pole-Money worth six Subsidies more yet that God had so blessed the endeavours of this Parliament that the Kingdom was a gainer by it and then follows the Catalogue of those good things they had done for the King and Kingdom For the Kingdom they had done they said these things They had abolished Ship-Money They had taken away Coat and Conduct-Money and other Military Charges which they said amounted to little less than the Ship-Money That they suppress'd all Monopolies which they reckoned above a Million yearly saved by the Subject That they had quelled living Grievances meaning evil Counsellors and Actors by the death of my Lord of Strafford by the flight of the Chancellor Finch and of Secretary Windebank by the Imprisonment of the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury and of Judge Bartlet and the Impeachment of other Bishops and Judges That they had pass'd a Bill for a Triennial Parliament and another for the Continuance of the present Parliament till they should think fit to dissolve themselves B. That is to say for ever if they be suffered But the sum of all these things which they had done for the Kingdom is that they had left it without Government without Strength without Money without Law and without good Councel A. They reckoned also putting down of the High-Commission and the abating of the power of the Council-Table and of the Bishops and their Courts The taking away of unnecessary Ceremonies in Religion Removing of Ministers from their Livings that were not of their Faction and putting in such as were B. All this was but their own and not the Kingdoms Business A. The good they had done the King was first they said The giving of 25000 l. a month for the relief of the Northern Counties B. What need of relief had the Northern more than the rest of the Counties of England A Yes in the Northern Counties were quartered the Scotch Army which the Parliament called in to oppose the King and consequently their Quarter was to be discharged B. True but by the Parliament that call'd them in A. But they say no and that this Money was given to the King because he is bound to protect his Subjects B. He is no farther bound to that than they to give him Money wherewithal to do it This is very great impudence to raise an Army against the King and with that Army to oppress their Fellow-Subjects and then require that the King should relieve them that is to say be at the charge of paying the Army that was raised to fight against him A. Nay farther They put to the King's Account the 300000 l. given to the Scots without which they would not have invaded England besides many other things that I now remember not B. I did not think there had been so great impudence and villany in mankind A. You have not observ'd the World long enough to see all that 's ill Such was their Remonstrance as I have told you With it they sent a Petition containing three Points 1. That his Majesty would deprive the Bishops of their Votes in Parliament and remove such Oppressions in Religion Church Government and Discipline as they had brought in 2. That he would remove from his Council all such as should promote the Peoples Grievances and employ in his Great and Publick Affairs such as the Parliament should confide in 3. That he would not give away the Lands Escheated to the Crown by the Rebellion in Ireland B. This last Point methinks was not wisely put in at this time it should have been reserv'd till they had subdued the Rebels against whom there were yet no Forces sent over 'T is like selling the Lyons Skin before they had kill'd him But what answer was made to the other two Propositions A. What answer should be made but a Denial About the same time the King himself exhibited Articles against six Persons of the Parliament five whereof were of the House of Commons and one of the House of Lords accusing them of High Treason and upon the 4 th of January went himself to the House of Commons to demand those five of them but private notice having been given by some Treacherous Person about the King they had absented themselves and by that means frustrated his Majesties Intentions and after he was gone the House making a hainous matter of it and a high breach of their Priviledges adjourned themselves into London there to sit as a General Committee pretending they were not safe at Westminster for the King when he went to the House to demand those Persons had somewhat more attendance with him but not otherwise armed than his Servants used to be than he ordinarily had and would not be pacified though the King did afterward wave the prosecution of those persons unless he would also discover to them those that gave him Counsel to go in that manner to the Parliament House to the end they might receive condign punishment which was the word they used in stead of cruelty B. This was a harsh demand Was it not enough that the King should forbear his Enemies but also that he must betray his Friends If they thus tyrannize over the King before they have gotten the Sovereign Power into their hands how will they tyrannize over their Fellow-Subjects when they have gotten it A. So as they did B. How long staid that Committee in London A. Not above two or three days and then were brought from London to the Parliament House by Water in great triumph guarded with a tumultuous number of Armed Men there to sit in security in despite of the King and make traiterous Acts against him such and as many as they listed and under favour of these tumults to frighten away from the House of Peers all such as were not of their own Faction For at this time the Rabble was so insolent that scarce any of the Bishops durst go to the House for fear of violence upon their persons in so much as twelve of them excused themselves of coming thither and by way of Petition to the King remonstrated That they were
not permitted to go quietly to the performance of that Duty and protesting against all Determinations as of none effect that should pass in the House of Lords during their forced absence which the House of Commons taking hold of sent up to the Peers one of their Members to accuse them of High Treason whereupon ten of them were sent to the Tower after which time there were no more words of their High Treason but there passed a Bill by which they were deprived of their Votes in Parliament and to this Bill they got the Kings Assent and in the beginning of September after they voted that the Bishops should have no more to do in the Government of the Church but to this they had not the King's Assent the War being now begun B. What made the Parliament so averse to Episcopacy and especially the House of Lords whereof the Bishops were Members for I see no reason why they should do it to gratifie a number of poor Parish Priests that were Presbyterians and that were never likely any way to serve the Lords but on the contrary to do their best to pull down their power and subject them to their Synods and Classes A. For the Lords very few of them did perceive the intention of the Presbyterians and besides that they durst not I believe oppose the Lower House B. But why were the Lower House so earnest against them A. Because they meant to make use of their Tenents and with pretended Sanctity to make the King and his Party odious to the People by whose help they were to set up Democracy and depose the King or to let him have the Title only so long as he should act for their purposes but not only the Parliament but in a manner all the People of England were their Enemies upon the account of their behaviour as being they said too imperious This was all that was colourably laid to their charge the main cause of pulling them down was the envy of the Presbyterians that incensed the People against them and against Episcopacy it self B. How would the Presbyterians have the Church to be governed A. By National and Provincial Synods B. Is not this to make the National Assembly an Arch-bishop and the Provincial Assemblies so many Bishops A. Yes but every Minister shall have the delight of sharing the Government and consequently of being able to be revenged on them that do not admire their Learning and help to fill their Purses and win to their Service them that do B. 'T is a hard Case that there should be two Factions to trouble the Common-wealth without any Interest in it of their own other than every particular man may have and that their quarrels should be only about Opinions that is about who has the most Learning as if their Learning ought to be the Rule of governing all the World What is it they are learned in Is it Politicks and Rules of State I know it is called Divinity but I hear almost nothing preach'd but matter of Philosophy For Religion in it self admits no controversie 'T is a Law of the Kingdom and ought not to be disputed I do not think they pretend to speak with God and know his Will by any other way than reading the Scriptures which we also do A. Yes some of them do and give themselves out for Prophets by extraordinary Inspiration but the rest pretend only for their Advancement to Benefices and Charge of Souls a greater skill in the Scriptures than other men have by reason of their breeding in the Universities and knowledge there gotten of the Latin Tongue and some also of the Greek and Hebrew Tongues wherein the Scripture was written besides their knowledge of Natural Philosophy which is there publickly taught B. As for the Latin Greek and Hebrew Tongues it was once to the Detection of Roman fraud and to the ejection of the Romish Power very profitable or rather necessary but now that 's done and we have the Scripture in English and preaching in English I see no great need of Latin Greek and Hebrew I should think my self better qualified by understanding well the Languages of our Neighbours French Dutch and Italian I think it was never seen in the World before the power of Popes was set up that Philosophy was much conducing to Power in a Common-wealth A. But Philosophy together with Divinity have very much conduced to the advancement of the Professors thereof to Places of the greatest Authority next to the Authority of Kings themselves in most of the ancient Kingdoms of the World as is manifestly to be seen in the History of those times B. I pray you cite me some of the Authors and Places A. First what were the Druids of old time in Britany and France What Authority these had you may see in Caesar Strabo and others and especially in Diodorus Siculus the greatest Antiquary perhaps that ever was who speaking of the Druids which he calls Sarovides in France says thus There be also amongst them certain Philosophers and Theologians that are exceedingly honoured whom they also use as Prophets these Men by their skill in Augury and Inspection into the Bowels of Beasts sacrificed foretel what is to come and have the Multitude obedient to them And a little after It is a Custom amongst them that no man may sacrifice without a Philosopher because say they men ought not to present their thanks to the Gods but by them that know the Divine Nature and are as it were of the same Language with them and that all good things ought by such as these to be prayed for B. I can hardly believe that those Druids were very skilful either in Natural Philosophy or Moral A. Nor I for they held and taught the Transmigration of Souls from one Body to another as did Pythagoras which Opinion whether they took from him or he from them I cannot tell What were the Magi in Persia but Philosophers and Astrologers You know how they came to find our Saviour by the conduct of a Star either from Persia it self or from some Countrey more Eastward than Judea Were not these in great Authority in their Countrey And are they not in most part of Christendome thought to have been Kings Aegypt hath been thought by many the most ancient Kingdom and Nation of the World and their Priests had the greatest power in Civil Affairs that any Subjects ever had in any Nation And what were they but Philosophers and Divines concerning whom the same Diodorus Siculus says thus The whole Countrey of Aegypt being divided into three parts the Body of the Priests have one as being of most credit with the People both for their Devotion towards the Gods and also for their understanding gotten by Education and presently after for generally these men in the greatest Affairs of all are the King's Councellors partly executing and partly informing and advising foretelling him also by their skill in Astrology and Art in the Inspection
seconded by Prince Rupert who was then abroad in that Countrey carried the Place These were the chief Actions of this year 1642. wherein the King's Party had not much the worse B. But the Parliament had now a better Army in so much that if the Earl of Essex had immediately followed the King to Oxford not yet well fortified he might in all likelihood have taken it for he could not want either Men or Ammunition whereof the City of London which was wholly at the Parliaments Devotion had store enough A. I cannot judge of that but this is manifest considering the estate the King was in at his first marching from York when he had neither Money nor Men nor Arms enough to put them in hope of Victory that this year take it all together was very prosperous B. But what great folly or wickedness do you observe in the Parliaments Actions for this first year A. All that can be said against them in that Point will be excused with the pretext of War and come under one name of Rebellion saving that when they summoned any Town it was always in the name of King and Parliament the King being in the contrary Army and many times beating them from the Siege I do not see how the right of War can justifie such Impudence as that But they pretended that the King was always virtually in the two Houses of Parliament making a distinction between his Person Natural and Politick which made the Impudence the greater besides the folly of it for this was but an University quibble such as Boys make use of in maintaining in the Schools such Tenents as they cannot otherwise defend In the end of this year they solicited also the Scots to enter England with an Army to suppress the Power of the Earl of New-Castle in the North which was a plain Confession that the Parliaments Forces were at this time inferior to the King 's and most men thought that if the Earl of New-Castle had then marched Southward and joyned his Forces with the King 's that most of the Members of Parliament would have fled out of England In the beginning of 1643. the Parliament seeing the Earl of New Castle 's Power in the North grown so formidable sent to the Scots to hire them to an Invasion of England and to complement them in the mean time made a Covenant amongst themselves such as the Scots had before taken against Episcopacy and demolished Crosses and Church windows such as had in them any Images of Saints throughout all England Also in the middle of the year they made a solemn League with the Nation which was called the Solemn League and Covenant B. Are not the Scots as properly to be called Forreigners as the Irish Seeing then they persecuted the Earl of Strafford even to death for advising the King to make use of Irish Forces against the Parliament with what face could they call in a Scoth Army against the King A. The King's Party might easily here have discerned their Design to make themselves absolute Masters of the Kingdom and to dethrone the King Another great Impudence or rather a bestial incivility it was of theirs that they voted the Queen a Traitor for helping the King with some Ammunition and English Forces from Holland B. Was it possible that all this could be done and men not see that Papers and Declarations must be useless and that nothing could satisfie them but the deposing of the King and setting up of themselves in his place A. Yes very possible For who was there of them though knowing that the King had the Sovereign Power that knew the Essential Rights of Sovereignty They dreamt of a mixt Power of the King and the two Houses That it was a divided Power in which there could be no peace was above their understanding Therefore they were always urging the King to Declarations and Treaties for fear of subjecting themselves to the King in an absolute obedience which increased the hope and courage of the Rebels but did the King little good for the People either understand not or will not trouble themselves with Controversies in writing but rather by his Compliance and Messages go away with an opinion that the Parliament was likely to have the Victory in the War Besides seeing the Penners and Contrivers of these Papers were formerly Members of the Parliament and of another mind and now revolted from the Parliament because they could not bear that sway in the House which they expected men were apt to think they believed not what they writ As for Military Actions to begin at the Head Quarters Prince Rupert took Brimingiam a Garrison of the Parliaments In July after the King's Forces had a great Victory over the Parliaments near Devizes on Roundway-down where they took 2000 Prisoners four Brass Pieces of Ordnance 28 Colours and all their Baggage and shortly after Bristol was surrendred to Prince Rupert for the King and the King himself marching into the West took from the Parliament many other considerable places But this good fortune was not a little allayed by his besieging of Glocester which after it was reduced to the last gasp was relieved by the Earl of Essex whose Army was before greatly wasted but now suddenly recruited with the Train'd-Bands and Apprentices of London B. It seems not only by this but also by many Examples in History that there can hardly arise a long or dangerous Rebellion that has not some such overgrown City with an Army or two in its belly to foment it A. Nay more those great Capital Cities when Rebellion is upon pretence of Grievances must needs be of the Rebel-party because the Grievances are but Taxes to which Citizens that is Merchants whose profession is their private gain are naturally mortal Enemies their only glory being to grow excessively rich by the wisdom of buying and selling B. But they are said to be of all Callings the most beneficial to the Common-wealth by setting the poorer sort of People on work A. That is to say by making poor People sell their labour to them at their own prizes so that poor People for the most part might get a better Living by working in Bridewel than by spinning weaving and other such labour as they can do saving that by working slightly they may help themselves a little to the disgrace of our Manufacture And as most commonly they are the first Encouragers of Rebellion presuming of their strength so also are they for the most part the first to repent deceived by them that command their strength But to return to the War though the King withdrew from Glocester yet it was not to fly from but to fight with the Earl of Essex which presently after he did at Newbury where the Battle was bloody and the King had not the worst unless Cirencester be put into the Scale which the Earl of Essex had in his way a few days before surprized But in the North and the
March towards London wherein they take upon them to be Judges of the Parliament and of who are fit to be trusted with the business of the Kingdom giving them the name not of the Parliament but of the Gentlemen at Westminster For since the violence they were under July the 26 th the Army denied them to be a Lawful Parliament At the same time they sent a Letter to the Major and Aldermen of London reproaching them with those late Tumults telling them they were Enemies to the Peace Treacherous to the Parliament unable to defend either the Parliament or themselves and demanded to have the City delivered into their hands to which purpose they said they were now coming to them The General also sent out his Warrants to the Counties adjacent summoning their Trained Soldiers to joyn with them B. Were the Trained Soldiers part of the General 's Army A. No nor at all in pay nor could be without an Order of Parliament But what might an Army do after it had mastered all the Laws of the Land The Army being come to Hounsloe-Heath distant from London but ten Miles the Court of Aldermen was called to consider what to do The Captains and Soldiers of the City were willing and well provided to go forth and give them battle but a Treacherous Officer that had charge of a Work on Southwerk side had let in within the Line a small Party of the Enemies who marched as far as to the Gate of London Bridge and then the Court of Aldermen their hearts failing them submitted on these conditions To relinquish their Militia To desert the eleven Members To deliver up the Forts and Line of Communication together with the Tower of London and all Magazines and Arms therein to the Army To disband their Forces and turn out all the Reformadoes i. e. all Essex's old Soldiers To draw off their Guards from the Parliament all which was done and the Army marched triumphantly through the principal Streets of the City B. 'T is strange that the Major and Aldermen having such an Army should so quickly yield Might they not have resisted the Party of the Enemy at the Bridge with a Party of their own and the rest of the Enemies with the rest of their own A. I cannot judge of that but to me it would have been strange if they had done otherwise for I consider the most part of rich Subjects that have made themselves so by Craft and Trade as Men that never look upon any thing but their present profit and who to every thing not lying in that way are in a manner blind being amazed at the very thought of plundering If they had understood what vertue there is to preserve their Wealth in obedience to their Lawful Sovereign they would never have sided with the Parliament and so we had had no need of arming The Major and Aldermen therefore being assured by this submission to save their Goods and not sure of the same by resisting seem to me to have taken the wisest course nor was the Parliament less tame than the City for presently August the sixth the General brought the fugitive Speakers and Members to the House with a strong Guard of Soldiers and replaced the Speakers in their Chairs and for this they gave the General thanks not only there in the House but appointed also a day for a Holy Thanksgiving and not long after made him Generalissimo of all the Forces of England and Constable of the Tower but in effect all this was the advancement of Cromwel for he was the usufructuary though the property were in Sir Thomas Fairfax For the Independents immediately cast down the whole Line of Communication divide the Militia of London Westminster and Southwark which were before united displaced such Governours of Towns and Forts as were not for their turn though placed there by Ordinance of Parliament in stead of whom they put in Men of their own Party They also made the Parliament to declare null all that had passed in the Houses from July the 26 th to August the sixth and clapt in prison some of the Lords and some of the most eminent Citizens whereof the Lord Major was one B. Cromwel had power enough now to restore the King Why did he not A. His main end was to set himself in his place The Restoring of the King was but a Reserve against the Parliament which being in his Pocket he had no more need of the King who was now an Impediment to him To keep him in the Army was a trouble To let him fall into the hands of the Presbyterians had been a stop to his hopes To murder him privately besides the horror of the Act now whilst he was no more than Lieutenant-General would have made him odious without farthering his Design There was nothing better for his purpose than to let him escape from Hampton-Court where he was too near the Parliament whither he pleased beyond Sea for though Cromwel had a great Party in the Parliament House whilst they saw not his ambition to be their Master yet they would have been his Enemies as soon as that had appeared To make the King attempt an escape some of those that had him in custody by Cromwel's direction told him that the Adjutators meant to murder him and withal caused a Rumor of the same to be generally spread to the end it might that way also come to the King's Ear as it did The King therefore in a dark and rainy night his Guards being retir'd as it was thought on purpose left Hampton-Court and went to the Sea-side about Southampton where a Vessel had been bespoken to transport him but failed so that the King was forced to trust himself with Collonel Hammond then Governour of the Isle of Wight expecting perhaps some kindness from him for Dr. Hammond's sake Brother to the Collonel and his Majesties much favour'd Chaplain but it prov'd otherwise for the Collonel sent to his Masters of the Parliament to receive their Orders concerning him This going into the Isle of Wight was not likely to be any part of Cromwel's Design who neither knew whither nor which way he would go nor had Hammond known any more than other men if the Ship had come to the appointed place in due time B. If the King had escap'd into France might not the French have assisted him with Forces to recover his Kingdom and so frustrated their Designs both of Cromwel and all the King 's other Enemies A. Yes much just as they assisted his Son our present most Gracious Sovereign who two years before fled thither out of Cornwal B. 'T is methinks no great Politie in Neighbouring Princes to favour so often as they do one anothers Rebels especially when they rebel against Monarchy it self They should rather first make a League against Rebellion and afterwards if there be no remedy fight one against another Nor will that serve the turn amongst Christian Sovereigns till preaching be better
the House of Commons to shew they had not changed their Principles which after six readings in the House was voted to be printed and once a year to be read publickly in every Church B. I say again this re-establishing of the Long Parliament was no good service to the King A. Have a little patience They were re-established with two Conditions One to determine their sitting before the end of March another to send out Writs before their rising for new Elections B. That qualifies A. That brought in the King for few of this Long Parliament the Country having felt the smart of their former Service could get themselves chosen again This New Parliament began to sit April the 25 th 1660. How soon these called in the King with what Joy and Triumph he was receiv'd how earnestly his Majesty pressed the Parliament for the Act of Oblivion and how few were excepted out of it you know as well as I. B. But I have not yet observed in the Presbyterians any oblivion of their former Principles We are but returned to the state we were in at the beginning of the Sedition A. Not so for before that time though the Kings of England had the Right of the Militia in vertue of the Sovereignty and without dispute and without any particular Act of Parliament directly to that purpose yet now after this bloody dispute the next which is the present Parliament in proper and express terms hath declar'd the same to be the Right of the King only without either of his Houses of Parliament which Act is more instructive to the People than any Arguments drawn from the Title of Sovereign and consequently fitter to disarm the Ambition of all seditious Haranguers for the time to come B. I pray God it prove so Howsoever I must confess that this Parliament has done all that a Parliament can do for the security of our Peace which I think also would be enough if Preachers would take heed of instilling evil Principles into their Auditory I have seen in this Revolution a circular motion of the Sovereign Power through two Usurpers from the late King to this his Son for leaving out the Power of the Councel of Officers which was but temporary and no otherwise owned by them but in trust it moved from King Charles the First to the Long Parliament from thence to the Rump from the Rump to Oliver Cromwel and then back again from Richard Cromwel to the Rump thence to the Long Parliament and thence to King Charles the Second where long may it remain A. Amen And may he have as often as there shall be need such a General B. You have told me little of the General till now in the end but truly I think the bringing of his little Army intirely out of Scotland up to London was the greatest Stratagem that is extant in History FINIS Books lately printed for William Crooke at the Green Dragon without Temple-Bar 1682. DIVINITY SIxty one Sermons preached mostly upon publick occasions whereof five formerly Printed by A. Littleton D. D. Folio Brevis Demonstratio being the truth of Christian Religion proved by reason in Twelves p. 10 d. The primitive Institution shewing the Antiquity and usefulness of Catechizing by the Author of this Book price 12 d. A Funeral Sermon for a drown'd Man Octavo Mr. Howel's Visitation Sermon Quarto Dr. Hascard's two Sermons Quarto Mr. Maningham's Sermon Quarto A Sermon preached at the Savoy accused for Heretical French and English A modest Plea for the Clergy wherein is briefly considered the Reasons why the Clergy are so neglected by the Author of this Book Octavo H. Grotius's Catechism Greek Latin and English Octavo The Spirit of Prophecy proving that Christ and his Apostles were Prophets written by the Directions of and recommended to the Press by Dr. P. Gunning Lord Bishop of Ely Octavo The King-killing Doctrine of the Jesuites in a sincere Discourse to the French King written by a Roman Catholick in Quarto The Justifying Faith or the Faith by which the just do live Octavo Mercy Triumphant or the Kingdom of Christ inlarged beyond the narrow Bounds which have wont to be set to it by Ed. Lane Vicar of Sparsholt Quarto Responsio Valedictoria ad secundam Sandii Epistolam c. per Samuel Gardiner S. T. D. Du Moulin's Reflections Reverberated being a full Answer to his damning Doctrine also a Confutation of the railing of Edmond Hickeringgil by Ed. Lane in Quarto The Three last New HISTORY An Institution of general History or the History of the World being a Compleat body thereof in two Volumes by William Howel LL. D. and Chancellor of Lincoln Folio printed 1680. Historical Collection being an Account of the proceedings of the four last Parliaments of Queen Elizabeth wherein is contained the compleat Journals both of Lords and Commons of that time by Heywood Townsend Esquire Member in those Parliaments Folio printed 1680. A Chronicle of the late intestine Wars of the three Kingdoms of England Scotland and Ireland from 1639. to 1660. written by Mr. Heath since continued to 1674. by J. P. in Folio A Voyage into the Levant being a Relation of a Journey lately performed from England to Grand Cairo by Sir Henry Blunt Twelves pr. 1 s. Some years Travel into divers parts of Asia and Africa the great by Sir Tho. Herbert the 4 th Edition Parthenissa written by the Earl of Orrery in Folio Clelia the whole work in five parts written in French now put into English compleat in Folio A Description of Candia with an Account of the last Siege and surrender of it to the Turks in Octavo Calliopes Cabinet opened wherein all Gentlemen may be informed how to order themselves for Feasts Funerals and all publick meetings in Twelves price bound 8 d. A Discourse of the Dukedom of Modena containing the Original Antiquity of that Dukedom in Quarto price 6 d. The Travels of Vlysses by Thomas Hobbs in Twelves bound price 1 s. The present State of London containing the Antiquity Fame Walls River Bridge c. of that City by J. B. Esquire Scarron's Comical Romance being an Historical Account of a Company of Stage-Players full of Variety of Wit and Pleasure in Folio The Wonders of the Peak in Darbyshire commonly called the Devil's Arse of Peak by Tho. Hobbs in Octavo The Life and Death of Mahumet the Author of the Turkish Religion being an Account of his Tribe Parents c. by the Author of this Book in Octavo The Historian's Guide being a Summary Account of all the Actions Exploits Sieges c. that have happened in England for fourscore years past in Twelves The Connection being Collections of some principal matters in the Reign of King James being of the time that lyeth betwixt Mr. Townsend's Historical Collections and Mr. Rushworth's price 1 s. 6 d. The Moors Baffled or a Discourse of Tangier as it was under the Government of the Earl of Tiviot by the Author of this Book All Homer's Works
they call the rational Soul is also wholly in the whole man and wholly in every part of the man What is this but to make the humane Soul the same thing in respect of mans Body that God is in respect of the World These his Lordship calls here rational men and some of them which applaud this Doctrine would have the High Court of Parliament corroborate such Doctrines with a Law I said in my Leviathan that it is no honourable attribute to God to say he is in a place because infinite is not confined within a place To which he replies T. H. his God is not wholly every where I confess the consequence For I understand in English he that says any thing to be all here means that neither all nor any of the same thing is else where He says further I take a Circumscriptive a Definitive and a Repletive being in a place to be Heathen Language Truly if this Dispute were at the Bar I should go near to crave the assistance of the Court lest some trick might be put upon me in such obscurity For though I know what these Latin words singly signifie yet I understand not how any thing is in a Place Definitively and not Circumscriptively For Definitively comes from definio which is to set bounds And therefore to be in a Place Definitively is when the bounds of the place are every way marked out But to be in a place Circumscriptively is when the bounds of the place are described round about To be in a Place Repletive is to fill a place Who does not see that this dictinction is Canting and Fraud If any man will call it Pious Fraud he is to prove the Piety as clearly as I have here explained the Fraud Besides no Fraud can be Pious in any man but him that hath a lawful Right to govern him whom he beguileth whom the Bishop pretends to govern I cannot tell Besides his Lordship ought to have considered that every Bishop is one of the Great Councel trusted by the King to give their advice with the Lords Temporal for the making of good Laws Civil and Ecclesiastical and not to offer them such obscure Doctrines as if because they are not versed in School-divinity therefore they had no Learning at all nor understood the English Tongue Why did the Divines of England contend so much heretofore to have the Bible translated into English if they never meant any but themselves should read it If a Lay-man be publickly encouraged to search the Scriptures for his own Salvation what has a Divine to do to impose upon him any strange interpretation unless if he make him err to Damnation he will be damned in his stead J. D. Our God is immutable without any shadow of turning by change to whom all things are present nothing past nothing to come But T. H. his God is measured by time losing somthing that is past and acquiring somthing that doth come every minute That is as much as to say That our God is infinite and his God is finite for unto that which is actually infinite nothing can be added neither time nor parts Hear himself Nor do I understand what derogation it can be to the divine perfection to attribute to it Potentiality that is in English Power so little doth he understand what Potentiality is and successive duration And he chargeth it upon us as a fault that will not have eternity to be an endless succession of time How successive duration and an endless succession of time in God Then God is infinite then God is elder to day than he was yesterday Away with Blasphemies Before he destroyed the Ubiquity of God and now he destroyeth his Eternity T. H. I shall omit both here and henceforth his preambulatory impertinent and uncivil calumnies The thing he pretends to prove is this That it is a derogation to the Divine Power to attribute to it Potentiality that is in English Power and Successive Duration One of his reasons is God is infinite and nothing can be added to infinite neither of time nor of parts It is true And therefore I said God is infinite and eternal without beginning or end either of Time or Place which he has not here confuted but confirmed He denies Potentiality and Power to be all one and says I little understand what Potentiality is He ought therefore in this place to have defined what Potenality is For I understand it to be the same with Potentia which is in English Power There is no such word as Potentiality in the Scriptures nor in any Author of the Latin Tongue It is found only in School-Divinity as a word of Art or rather as a word of Craft to amaze and puzzle the Laity And therefore I no sooner read than intepreted it In the next place he says as wondring How an endless succession of time in God! Why not Gods mercy endureth for ever and surely God endureth as long as his mercy therefore there is duration in God and consequently endless succession of time God who in sundry times and divers manners spake in time past c. But in a former dispute with me about Free-will he hath defined Eternity to be Nunc stans that is an ever standing now or everlasting instant This he thinks himself bound in honour to defend What reasonable soul can digest this We read in Scripture that a thousand years with God is but as yesterday And why but because he sees as clearly to the end of a thousand years as to the end of a day But his Lordship affirms That both a thousand years and a day are but one instant the same standing Now or Eternity If he had shewed an holy Text for this Doctrine or any Text of the Book of Common Prayer in the Scripture and Book of Common Prayer is contained all our Religion I had yielded to him but School-Divinity I value little or nothing at all Though in this he contradict also the School-men who say the Soul is eternal only à parte post but God is eternal both à parte post and à parte ante Thus there are parts in eternity and eternity being as his Lordship says the divine substance the divine substance has parts and Nunc stans has parts Is not this darkness I take it to be the Kingdom of Darkness and the teachers of it especially of this Doctrine That God who is not only Optimus but also Maximus is no greater than to be wholly contained in the least Atome of earth or other body and that his whole duration is but an instant of time to be either grosly ignorant or ungodly Deceivers J. D. Our God is a perfect pure simple indivisible infinite Essence free from all composition of matter and form of substance and accidents All matter is finite and he who acteth by his infinite Essence needeth neither Organs nor Faculties id est no power note that nor accidents to render him more compleat But T. H.
lawful for a man to value his own life or his limbs more than his God How much is he wiser than the three Children or Daniel himself who were thrown the first into a fiery Furnace the last into the Lions Denn because they refused to comply with the Idolatrous Decree of their Soveraign Prince T. H. Here also my words are truly cited But his Lordship understood not what the word Worship signifies and yet he knew what I meant by it To think highly of God as I had defined it is to honour him But to think is internal To Worship is to signifie that Honour which we inwardly give by signs external This understood as by his Lordship it was all he says to it is but a cavil J. D. A fourth Aphorism may be this That which is said in the Scripture it is better to obey God than man hath place in the Kingdom of God by Pact and not by Nature Why Nature it self doth teach us it is better to obey God than men Neither can he say that he intended this only of obedience in the use of indifferent actions and gestures in the service of God commanded by the Common-wealth for that is to obey both God and man But if divine Law and humane Law clash one with another without doubt it is evermore better to obey God than man T. H. Here again appears his unskilfulness in reasoning Who denyes but it is alwayes and in all causes better to obey God than Man But there is no Law neither divine nor humane that ought to be taken for a Law till we know what it is and if a divine Law till we know that God hath commanded it to be kept We agree that the Scriptures are the Word of God But they are a Law by Pact that is to us who have been Baptized into the Covenant To all others it is an invitation only to their own benefit 'T is true that even nature suggesteth to us that the Law of God is to be obeyed rather than the Law of man But nature does not suggest to us that the Scripture is the Law of God much less how every Text of it ought to be interpreted But who then shall suggest this Dr. Bramhall I deny it Who then The stream of Divines Why so Am I that have the Scripture it self before my eyes obliged to venture my eternal life upon their interpretation how learned soever they pretend to be when no counter-security that they can give me will save me harmless If not the stream of Divines who then The lawful Assembly of Pastors or of Bishops But there can be no lawful Assembly in England without the Authority of the King The Scripture therefore what it is and how to be interpreted is made known unto us here by no other way than the Authority of our Soveraign Lord both in Temporals and Spirituals The Kings Majesty And where he has set forth no Interpretation there I am allowed to follow my own as well as any other man Bishop or not Bishop For my own part all that know me know also it is my opinion That the best government in Religion is by Episcopacy but in the King 's Right not in their own But my Lord of Derry not contented with this would have the utmost resolution of our Faith to be into the Doctrine of the Schools I do not think that all the Bishops be of his mind If they were I would wish them to stand in fear of that dreadful Sentence All covet all lose I must not let pass these words of his Lordship If divine Law and humane Law clash one with another without doubt it is better evermore to obey God than man Where the King is a Christian believes the Scripture and hath the Legislative power both in Church and State and maketh no Laws concerning Christian Faith or divine Worship but by the Counsel of his Bishops whom he trusteth in that behalf if the Bishops counsel him aright what clashing can there be between the divine and humane Laws For if the Civil Law be against God's Law and the Bishops make it clearly appear to the King that it clasheth with divine Law no doubt he will mend it by himself or by the advice of his Parliament for else he is no professor of Christ's Doctrine and so the clashing is at an end But if they think that every opinion they hold though obscure and unnecessary to Salvation ought presently to be Law then there will be clashings innumerable not only of Laws but also of Swords as we have found it too true by late experience But his Lordship is still at this that there ought to be for the divine Laws that is to say for the interpretation of Scripture a Legislative power in the Church distinct from that of the King which under him they enjoy already This I deny Then for clashing between the Civil Laws of Infidels with the Law of God the Apostles teach that those their Civil Laws are to be obeyed but so as to keep their Faith in Christ entirely in their hearts which is an obedience easily performed But I do not believe that Augustus Caesar or Nero was bound to make the holy Scripture Law and yet unless they did so they could not attain to eternal life J. D. His fifth conclusion may be that the sharpest and most successful Sword in any War whatsoever doth give Soveraign Power and Authority to him that hath it to approve or reject all sorts of Theological Doctrines concerning the Kingdom of God not according to their truth or falshood but according to that influence which they have upon political affairs Hear him But because this Doctrine will appear to most men a novelty I do but propound it maintaining nothing in this or any other Paradox of Religion but attending the end of that dispute of the Sword concerning the Authority not yet amongst my Country-men decided by which all sorts of Doctrine are to be approved or rejected c. For the points of Doctrine concerning the Kingdom of God have so great influence upon the Kingdom of Man as not to be determined but by them that under God have the Soveraign Power Careat successibus opto Quisquis ab eventu facta notanda putat Let him evermore want success who thinketh actions are to be judged by their events This Doctrine may be plausible to those who desire to fish in troubled Waters But it is justly hated by those which are in Authority and all those who are lovers of peace and tranquillity The last part of this conclusion smelleth rankly of Jeroboam Now shall the Kingdom return to the house of David if this people go up to do Sacrifice in the house of the Lord at Jerusalem whereupon the King took counsel and made two Calves of Gold and said unto them It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem behold thy Gods O Israel which brought thee out of the Land of Aegypt But by the
Act of Parliament for the abolishing the High Commission But though the High Commission were taken away yet the Parliament having other ends besides the setting up of the Presbyterate pursued the Rebellion and put down both Episcopacy and Monarchy erecting a power by them called The Common-wealth by others the Rump which men obeyed not out of Duty but for fear nor was there any humane Laws left in force to restrain any man from Preaching or Writing any Doctrine concerning Religion that he pleased and in this heat of the War it was impossible to disturb the Peace of the State which then was none And in this time it was that a Book called Leviathan was written in defence of the King's Power Temporal and Spiritual without any word against Episcopacy or against any Bishop or against the publick Doctrine of the Church It pleas'd God about Twelve years after the Usurpation of this Rump to restore His most Gracious Majesty that now is to his Fathers Throne and presently His Majesty restored the Bishops and pardoned the Presbyterians but then both the one and the other accused in Parliament this Book of Heresie when neither the Bishops before the War had declared what was Heresie when if they had it had been made void by the putting down of the High Commission at the importunity of the Presbyterians So fierce are men for the most part in dispute where either their Learning or Power is debated that they never think of the Laws but as soon as they are offended they cry out Crucifige forgetting what St. Paul saith even in case of obstinate holding of an Error 2 Tim. 2.24 25. The Servant of the Lord must not strive but be gentle unto all men apt to teach patient in meekness instructing those that oppose if God peradventure may give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth Of which counsel such fierceness as hath appeared in the Disputation of Divines down from before the Council of Nice to this present time is a Violation FINIS SEVEN Philosophical Problems AND TWO PROPOSITIONS OF GEOMETRY By Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury With an Apology for Himself and his WRITINGS Dedicated to the KING in the year 1662. LONDON Printed for William Crook at the Green-Dragon without Temple-Bar 1682. TO THE KING THat which I do here most humbly present to Your Sacred Majesty is the best Part of my Meditations upon the Natural Causes of Events both of such as are commonly known and of such as have been of late artificially exhibited by the Curious They are ranged under seven Heads 1. Problems of Gravity 2. Problems of Tides 3. Problems of Vacuum 4. Problems of Heat 5. Problems of Hard and Soft 6. Problems of Wind and Weather 7. Problems of Motion Perpendicular and Oblique c. To which I have added Two Propositions of Geometry One is The Duplication of the Cube hitherto sought in vain The other A Detection of the absurd Use of Arithmetick as it is now applied to Geometry The Doctrine of Natural Causes hath not infallible and evident Principles For there is no Effect which the Power of God cannot produce by many several ways But seeing all Effects are produced by Motion he that supposing some one or more Motions can derive from them the necessity of that Effect whose Cause is required has done all that is to be expected from Natural Reason And though he prove not that the thing was thus produced yet he proves that thus it may be produced when the Materials and the power of Moving is in our hands which is as useful as if the Causes themselves were known And notwithstanding the absence of rigorous Demonstration this Contemplation of Nature if not rendred obscure by empty terms is the most Noble Imployment of the Mind that can be to such as are at leisure from their necessary Business This that I have done I know is an unworthy Present to be offered to a KING though considered as God considers Offerings together with the Mind and Fortune of the Offerer I hope will not be to Your Majesty unacceptable But that which I chiefly consider in it is that my Writing should be tryed by Your Majesties Excellent Reason untainted with the Language that has been invented or made use of by Men when they were puzzled and who is acquainted with all the Experiments of the time and whose approbation if I have the good Fortune to obtain it will protect my reasoning from the Contempt of my Adversaries I will not break the custom of joyning to my Offering a Prayer And it is That Your Majesty will be pleased to pardon this following short Apology for my Leviathan Not that I rely upon Apologies but upon Your Majesties most Gracious General Pardon That which is in it of Theology contrary to the general Current of Divines is not put there as my Opinion but propounded with submission to those that have the Power Ecclesiastical I did never after either in Writing or Discourse maintain it There is nothing in it against Episcopacy I cannot therefore imagine what reason any Episcopal-man can have to speak of me as I hear some of them do as of an Atheist or man of no Religion unless it be for making the Authority of the Church wholly upon the Regal Power which I hope Your Majesty will think is neither Atheism nor Heresie But what had I to do to meddle with matters of that nature seeing Religion is not Philosophy but Law It was written in a time when the pretence of Christ's Kingdom was made use of for the most horrid Actions that can be imagined And it was in just Indignation of that that I desired to see the bottom of that Doctrine of the Kingdom of Christ which divers Ministers then Preached for a Pretence to their Rebellion which may reasonably extenuate though not excuse the writing of it There is therefore no ground for so great a Calamny in my writing There is no sign of it in my Life and for my Religion when I was at the point of Death at St. Germains the Bishop of Durham can bear witness of it if he be asked Therefore I most humbly beseech Your Sacred Majesty not to believe so ill of me upon reports that proceed often and may do so now from the displeasure which commonly ariseth from difference in Opinion nor to think the worse of me if snatching up all the Weapons to fight against Your Enemies I lighted upon one that had a double edge Your Majesties Poor and most Loyal Subject THOMAS HOBBES PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEMS· CHAP. I. Problems of Gravity A. WHat may be the cause think you that stones and other bodies thrown upward or carried up and left to their liberty fall down again for ought a man can see of their own accord I do not think with the old Philosophers that they have any love to the Earth or are sullen that they will neither go nor stay And yet I cannot imagine what body there is above