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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A18933	The conuerted Iew or Certaine dialogues betweene Micheas a learned Iew and others, touching diuers points of religion, controuerted betweene the Catholicks and Protestants. Written by M. Iohn Clare a Catholicke priest, of the Society of Iesus. Dedicated to the two Vniuersities of Oxford and Cambridge ...	Clare, John, 1577-1628.; Anderton, Lawrence, attributed name.; Anderton, Roger, d. 1640?, attributed name.	1630 (1630)	STC 5351; ESTC S122560	323,604	470

them They would make men to beleiue that they had for the tymes and within their limits an absolute authority as if themselfs were Princes In lyke sort this Doctour reciteth Martin Sein●r making mention of a hundred thousand hands and what a stroake so many would stryke together and that Martin affirming their suyte should not be reiected especially in such a tyme whearein we now lyue in danger of our enemyes abroad and therefore had need of no causes of discoradgment at home Thus D. Bancroft cyteth the words of Martin Marprelet and then he giueth his sentence iudgment of this their Menage and tearmeth it thus A speech at least seditions This Doctour also further discoureth the threats of the Puritans against the Magistrate and he alledgeth one of their comminations thus in their owne words We haue sought to aduance this cause of God by humble suyte to the Parlament by wryting c. seing none of these meanes vsed by vs haue preuayled if it come by that meanes which will make all your harts to ake blame yourselfs Finally not to stay long hearein D. Succlif thus speaketh of Martin Marprelate Martin wisheth that the Parlament would bring in the Eldership notwithstanding her Maiestyes resisting of it vz by a rebellion They bragged of a hundred thousand hands and in playne ●●armes talked of Massacring their Aduersaries Thus D. Succlif with whome I will heare end VICE-CHANCELOVR Though I cannot deny Michaeas the former attempts of the Protestants Yet since not only the Papists Doctrine but also the mainfold traiterous desigments and reall practizes of them against their Protestant Prin●es are no lesse tragicall then the former related by you are I do not see but that granting the Protestants to be faulty in defect of Loyalty you Papists may in a far more high degree be iustly insimulated within the said Cryme Good God your treasons and machinations haue bene so apparent and so approued by the consent almost of all other Papists as that I may truly pronounce that in the whole thronge of Papists a true and Loyal Papist towards his Protestant Soueraigne so rare such an one is is lyke a Diamond placed among many whyte Saphyrs So iust reason had the learned D. Morton to say of your Profession We may now expect as well a white Ethiopian as a loyall Subiect of this Religion MICHAEAS Alas M. Vice-Chancelour These are but verball exagerations without prouffe which as they are but wynde of sp●enfull tongues so are they blowne away with the Wynd Be it that some Catholicke Doctours in certaine peculiar Cases do ascrybe a powrfull authority to the Pope against Princes And grant also that some few Catholicks haue proued to be to the ineffable greife and dislyke of all other good and sober Catholicks Disloyall to their Prince Yet since the difference both of their doctrines and circumstances of their attempts are incomparably short and inferiour to the doctrynes and reall insurrections of the Protestants against their Soueraignes You haue no reason M. Vice Chancelour thus to insult in galantry of such amplifying speeches against vs. Therefore I will paralell them heare together that so you seeing the greate disparty may ●ecall for shame those your speeches and suffer your cheekes to witnes your former errour And first touching the doctrine The Protestants I meane those former alledged Protestants do extend this power of deposing Princes to euery pore parochial superintendent who is Pope or so would be within his owne circuit yea for want of such a turbulent fellow if at any tyme theare can be a want of these they giue this liberty as aboue I haue showed to the base Common people and promiscuous multitude the many headed tyrants of all humane societyes The Catholicke deuynes who most defend such transcendency of proceedings do neuertheles ascrybe the doing of it to the Pope only who is a stranger and therefore further of from any such sudden present attempting and who himselfe in case of Heresy as a priuate person lyeth open to the same perill This also they teach must be done by many former sweete admonitions and proceedings To proceede to the attempts on both sides The Protestants haue actually deposed seuerall Kings Queenes and absolute soueraigns Thus is the King of Spayne deposed of a greater part of the Lowcontryes the King of France of certaine Cittyes in France The supreme Lord of Geneua of his Territory belonging to that Cittie The Emperour of many Imperiall Cittyes in Germany King Sigismond of his Kingdome of Sweueland and Finally his Maiesties Grandmother and Greatgrandmother of the Kingdome of Scotland The Pope and the Catholicks haue neuer yet to this day actually detroned any one absolute Protestant Prince or King throughout all Christendome of their Sates and Territoryes The greatest matter of this nature that can be alledged is the excommunications of King Henry the eight of England Queene Elizabeth his daughter and King Henry of France the fourth The Protestants haue come into the fyeld against their Catholicke Princes in many huge Armyes and hundred thousans of men as appeareth by the warrs made by them in the Low Countryes France Germany which warrs haue continued for many yeres The Catholicks neuer yet leuyed any such Armyes against their protestant Prince Lastly the Protestants haue not only deposed their Princes of seuerall states and Countryes but they haue really impatronized themselues of the sayd states and keept them in their owne possession as is ouer manifestly euident by the examples of Rochel in France Geneua Holland Zeland seuerall parts of Germany Sweueland Transiluania c. The Catholicks to this very day haue not made themselues Lords of any one towne or Citty much lesse of any state or Kingdome which haue belonged to their protestant Princes And thus farre touching the libration and weighing in an euen hand the doctrine and attempts taught and made by Protestāts Catholicks in point of disloyalty against their lawfull dread soueraigns of a different Religion And now M. Vice-Chancelour after the true vnfoulding of these matters which afore were lapped vp in a great mistaking I demaund of you where are your former Termini Conuertibilis of Papistry Disloyalty Your similitude of one Diamond among many worthles Saphyrs And D. Mortons strange beast As if all Papists and ●o Protestants were guilty of Treason and Rebellion against their lawfull Princes so fowly you see your selfe was mistaken therein and so wildly did your Doctour●aue ●aue of a whyte Ethiopian L. CHEIFE-IVSTICE Michaeas I am tyred with learning thus much of this distastfull Theame and I am vnwilling you should spinne out this discours to any further lenght Therefore you may heere end And truly I would scarse haue beleiued till now my owne eyes much lesse my eares that the Protestants wrytings and actions had stood so iustly subiect to this kind of Reprehension But I must yield though with greife to such euident testimonyes as you haue produced

they vsed speakind of Knox and his Confederats that poore Lady my Mother is not vnknowne and with greife I may remember it Touching Ge●enna Goneu● I would say but the mistaking is not great since what the one teacheth the other punisheth We find that D. 〈…〉 l●ste thus truly writeth They of eneua did depose their Liegt Lord who was Catholicke Prince from his temporall right albeit he was by right of succession the temporall Lord and owner of that Citty and Territorie Which whom conspireth D. Bancroft thus wryting hereof The Citizens of Geneua receauing some good encour agement meaning from Caluin and such others I doubt not tooke vpon them the endeauouring of altering Religion and omitted not the occasion offered of changing also the Estate of the Commonwealth In this next place the 〈…〉 ow Countryes affoard a greater euidency and demonstration of this point For O●iander a most eminent Protestant thus woundeth his owne Professours The Low Countreyes by publike wryting renounced all obedience and subiection to Philip their Lord and King c. When foure hundred of them men of good ranke had sued for tolleration in religion and did not preuayle the impatient People stirred vp with fury at Antwerp and other places of Holland Z●land and Pladders threw and broake downe images c. The y subiects of those Countreyes tooke armes against the Magistrate and made the Prince of Orange their Gouernour A truth in like sort confessed by D. Sarauia in these words They of the Low Countryes did ouerthrow and spoyle temples and monasteryes with Monks Bishops and the whole popish Cleargy against the mind of the cheife Magistrate and prom●se giuen Finally Crispinus the Protestant and the foresaid Osiander do relate that one Petrus Dathenus and other cheife Protestants of Gau●t did stir vp in the yere 1587. the Ci●tizens to cast all the Masse Priests as they speake and Monks out of the Citty and to place their goods in the Treasury Next let vs come to France What ciuill Warrs haue beene raized by the Protestants during the space of forty yeares togeather till the last King Henry the fourth made himselfe Catholicke only for their Religion against their Catholicke Kings and Princes Many historyes are become the subiect thereof only I will content my selfe with discerning some few testimonyes and confessions of the Protestants heerein And first may occu●re the battayle of Dreux wherat Beza himselfe was present vndertaken only for the aduancement of the Protestant Religion and of which Battayle Beza thus writeth The Nobility of France vnder the noble Prince of Condy layd the foundation of the restoring true Religion in France by consecrating most happily their bloud to God in the battayle of Dreux In like sort we thus reede in a Protestant booke entituled The generall Inuentory of the History of France and translated into English by Ed. Grimston The Protestants of Meaux transported with indiscreete zeale grounded vpon their numbers did fly to the Churches beate downe images and make the Priests retyre And againe Beza preaching at Grenoble Charters and Orleans with his sword and pistoll in his hand exhorted the people to show their manhood rather in killing the Papists then in breaking Images And yet more The Protestants to wit anno 1567. being first armed were in the beginning maysters of the field c. The King being incensed agaynst them was at Me●ux and preparing to celebrate the feast of S. Michael the Prince of Condy approaching with fiue hundred horse by this attempt forced the King to retyre with some amazement to Paris And yet further The Prince of Condy and the Admirall kept S. Denis S. Owen and Auberuilliers to curbe Paris The Constable the Kings Lieutenant gathered an Army whereupon bartayle e●sued c. Which Authour of the aforementioned Inuentory of France relateth many more occurrents of those matters which here for breuity are omitted But to proceede further touching the Country of France Osiander the foresaid Protestant recordeth this matter in these words The Protestants vnder colour of exhibiting a Confession of their fayth came armed to the Kings palace c. That ciuill warre for Religion was renewed the Prince of Condy being Generall of those of the reformed Churches and the Constable Generall of the Kings Army That the Constable being slayne in these warres the Kings Brother supplyed his place To conclude this point of the Prince of Condy his rebellion herein It is so euident vndeniable that Crispinus a Protestant thus writeth hereof After many messages though in vayne sent by the King to the protestant Princes the warre beganne againe For the Prince of Condy rose vp in armes and swore not to leaue them vnder whose protestation this sentence was placed Deo victricibus armis This lamentable subiect of Protestant Subiects rysing against their Catholicke Princes hath busied my tongue very long Therefore I passe ouer how in Basil a cheife Citty in Heluetia a great dissention did ryse betweene the Burg●sses certaine of the Senatours for cause of Religion only as Crispinus relateth And how the Burgesses hauing taken armes forced the others to agree to what they demanded and thereupon they did cast downe Images and how twelue Senatours fauoring our Catholicke Religion were cast out of the Senate and how the Masse was first by these meanes abandoned throughout all that S●gnory Also I pretermit the dolefull passages of this nature practized in Swe●eland of which Country Cythreus a Protestant thus relateth Sigismond being King of Sweueland by hereditary succession was constrayned to giue his assent that none should beare office in that Kingdome but such only meaning Protestants as retayned the Confession of Augusta He further saith thus They forced the King to content himselfe with exercise of his Catholicke Religion in his owne Chappell A truth so well knowne confessed that Osiander thus speaketh of it in generall tearmes The Protestants of Sweueland did decree that the exercise of Popish Religion should be banished out of all parts of that Kingdome c. Finally I passe ouer with a gentill ●uche what the Kingdome of Palonia hath suffered in this kynd of which poynt the foresaide Protestant Osiander thus writeth Certaine of Polonia did out of an vntymely zeale expell their Priests with great violence and sedition without expecting permission as the said Authour confesseth of the Kinge Thus far most worthy Iudge I haue proceeded contrary to the byas of myne owne naturall disposition in relation of these lamentable I lyads as I may tearme them but I am to be pardoned since the vpbrading importunity of M. Vice-Chancelour did compell me thearto from which former Examples we may gather that for diuers yeres past most Nations of Christendome haue become the sable and mournfulle Theaters or stages whereupon so many blouddy Tragedyes haue bene acted or rather the very shambles whearein haue bene