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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A26676	The Allegations of the Turky Company and others against the East-India-Company, relating to the management of that trade presented to the Right Honourable the Lords of His Majesties most Honourable Privy Council, the 17th of August, 1681 : together with the answer of the said East-India-Company thereunto, delivered in writing the 22th instant according to Their Lordships order, upon which a hearing was had ... the 24th of the said month.	East India Company.; Company of Merchants of England Trading to the Levant.	1681 (1681)	Wing A954; ESTC R8675	15,102	16

or none being made in England The Conclusion of the Turkey Companies Paper is in effect that your Lordships should advise His Majesty to Dissolve this present East-India-Company as by His Majesties Charter is provided that is Your Lordships will pardon the expression to destroy that which is esteemed by all Forreigners the Glory of the Trade of England or otherwise to Mutilate it in such manner as was never practis'd by any European Nation and thereby disable the Company from serving his Majesty their Country or their selves which is such an Overture that considering your Lordships great Wisdom we cannot but with the rest of the World that are Strangers and Lookers-on admire at the confidence of the Proposers The East-India Company have Stock enough If they want more they are able to encrease it at their pleasure if any other persons desire to come into the Trade the Company 's Doors are alwayes open they buy Stock at any time cheaper than it's real and intrinsique value the Company refuses none of the Kings Subjects of England Scotland or Ireland nor can keep out any by their Charter that will pay five pounds for their Admission into their Freedom which the present Adventurers paid themselves Purchase is the Natural way of coming into that Stock Destruction will no more increase the number of their Adventurers than Castration or Cutting off a principal part of their Trade as is proposed by the Turkey Merchants HAving Answered every thing we can Observe material in the first Paper we meet with nothing new in the other Paper called Reasons against the management of the East-India-Company as now driven under the present Joint-Stock But 1. They say the Company have not valued their Stock at the end of every seven Years according to the Preamble Which is an Error in Fact For whereas they alledge that the East-India-Company have not kept to their proposals in their first Preamble that does not Concern them But therein they are likewise mistaken for that which they call a Preamble is but an Act of the General Court although after subscrib'd by all or most of the Adventurers of which there are two only which have been made by this Company and alterable at pleasure The first did provide for a Valuation at the end of seven Years which was accordingly made and on a very long debate in a General Court held at the East-India-House the 13th of October 1664. It was then determined that every Adventurer should within twenty dayes declare whether he would go off upon the intended Valuation or not And that it was understood that those that did not declare in that time continued their Stocks to all intents and purposes which the said General Court did think highly reasonable in regard that otherwise if the value of the Stock should prove to come out above the selling rate which was then but seventy per Cent. All the Adventurers should withdraw their Stocks and consequently dissolve the Company The General Court was very numerous that time and that Reason among others was so prevalent that upon the question there was but one Negative After the valuation was made which was one hundred thirty per Cent. Thirty days time was given for any Persons to subscribe a new and they had full Liberty to peruse the Valuation But no new subscribers did come in notwithstanding it appeared soon after that the Stock was considerably undervalued and within a Year and a quarter following there was fifty per Cent. divided At another General Court Holden at the East-India-House the 16th of March 1664. The second Preamble was made and afterwards subscribed by all the Adventurers whereby the first Preamble was declared determined and void And in this Case to avoid the danger of dissolving the stock aforementioned it was declared in the 4th Article of the said Preamble that unless the generality at some General Court shall otherwise direct a valuation of all remains of Stock undivided be once in seven years or sooner made by the Court of Committees between the first of May and the last of August That thereby the Adventurers might see how the Stock stands the better to sell or buy as to them shall be thought good which hath been accordingly performed Both which preambles as they did only concern the Adventurers by whom they were made and was never complained of to our Knowledge by any Adventurer So with submission we humbly conceive they do no more concern our opposers than what we do in our private Families we being under no obligation either by Charter or Promise to do or not to do any Act at the pleasure of Persons unconcern'd in the Stock 2. The other Novel we observe in the said Paper is that the New Stock they propose it 's duration should be limited to a short time and the subscriptions to a certain sum not to be exceeded which are two such absurdities in the Polity of Trade couched in two Lines as were never heard of in any Trading Nation in all the Debates and Foundations that ever were laid for the Establishment of an East-India Company or Trade in any of the Printed Books and Discourses that have been in the European Nations on that Subject It being as Rational to make a Law that whoever plants an Orchard shall plant it but for a short time of Continuance as to say that the Company which cannot possibly arrive at its full growth in less than two or three Ages shall be in its Constitution Framed and Limited to a short continuance And for the limited sum they speak of that is no less detrimental to the Kingdom in General by their own Maximes so far as they do agree as well as to the King's Revenue For certainly the greater the Trade and Navigation the more it is for Publique Advantage Who the Traders be is a Personal Consideration and signifies nothing to the Universality We have now answered all the Objections that we can find worth the troubling your Lordships with in any of the aforesaid Papers And to right our selves we should proceed to enumerate to your Lordships the great and manifold Advantages which have accrued and do accrue to this Nation by the Envied Progress and Increase of the English East-India Companies Trade But those are so many and so great with Respect to his Majesty and the Kingdoms Power as well as profit that if we should enter upon them they might swell this Paper into a Volume and prove a Burthen to your Lordships which therefore we shall forbear praying your Lordships for further satisfaction therein to be referred to the printed Treatises that have been made publique on this Occasion But there is another thing which with humble Submission we think it our duty to acquaint your Lordships with viz. the strange presumption of the Inter-Lopers these last 2 or 3 years Of which two are already arrived and one great Ship more is also expected home this year And if an effectual Course cannot be taken to suppress that Inter-Loping Trade it will be impossible to Frame a new or support the old Company who being at above one hundred Thousand Pounds Annual Charge in Forts Castle 's Souldiers and otherwise cannot be supposed to hold up in Trade with those that contribute nothing to that Charge especially considering that Inter-Lopers will save as they call it a great deal of the Custom on fine goods of small Bulk whereas the Company upon Honour and Duty to his Majesty do always pay the full Customes to a penny and produce their true and original Invoices to the Kings Officers at any time We had almost forgot the Allegation of the Turkey Merchants that their Members are 500 which if some Merchants of their own Company are not mistaken is an Error in their Muster of at least one half And for the bringing up of Noblemen and Gentlemen's Sons as Apprentices it is true that many such they do breed up and so do likewise the East-India Company with only two differences 1. The Turkey Merchants take 5 and 600 l with an Apprentice the East-India Company nothing 2. The Turkey Merchants Servants such as do well of them come home with good indifferent Estates those that do well of the East-India Company 's with great ones All that can be said is that an old Tree that hath taken hold of the Ground and drawn strong Roots may stand and abide more Shocks Stormes Blasts and Rubbs than a young Tree that is newly Planted We hope that by this our Submissive Reply to all that hath been said against us we shall have satisfied your Lordships of the Groundlesness of every Complaint And if your Lordships shall so think fit we humbly crave your Lordships Leave for the Satisfaction of Persons misled who otherwise may mean well we may be permitted to Print the two Papers delivered us with this our Answer 22 August 1681. All which we Humbly Submit to your Lordships Grave Judgement and Considerations FINIS

with it self in some Parts That we must Crave your Lordships leave to make 2 or 3 Reflections upon the whole and separate the Concern of Silks from other things wherewith it is Mixed 1. They seem to find fault with the East-India Company because they are too few Traders and yet at the same time blame them for having others than bred Merchants whereas if the Company had none but such their number of Traders must be fewer by about three Fourths 2. Tho' they complain of the Fewness of the East-India Adventurers as aforesaid and that other Merchants cannot get in amongst them In another place of the same Paper they say that any man that is master of Money may become a Pmrchaser of part of the joint-stock which is true and it is as true that without Money it is as difficult for a man to get a share in the Turkey or any other Trades 3. They say the Company do restrain Trade by Fines Seizures c. and at the same time blame them for indulging some things to the Adventurers as Musk Ambergreece c which seems to be an incoherent Accusation for the Company would if they could appropriate the whole Trade to the Joint-stock as the Dutch do But seeing they are compelled by the defect of Power and Force of Usage and Custom to indulge some small things as Ambergreece Bezars Rubies Nutmegs Cloves c. they cannot be just without giving that liberty equally and universally to all Adventurers as well as to their Factors and Servants Commanders Officers and Seamen 4. They complain of the Languishing Condition of the Turkey Trade and the hinderance the East-India Company causes of the Woollen Manufactures Exportation to Turkey Whereas in Fact it will be found if the Custom-house books be examined that during the Management of this very Complaint which hath been of about 10 years Continuance the Exportation of Cloth to Turkey hath not declined but increased as yet it will Notwithstanding the East-India Company should Load all their Ships from India with Raw and wrought Silks That instance mentioned in the late Printed Treatise of the loss of returns of Sugar and Cinamon from Portugal by the Dutch their taking of Ceilon and the English vast productions of Sugar from America is pregnant and irrefragable to this Purpose In the consideration of Silk we shall with your Lordships leave speak distinctly to the several sorts Viz. First Raw Silk Secondly Wrought Silks plain Thirdly Wrought Silks flowered or striped Fourthly Wrought silks mixt with Gold and Silver First As to Raw Silk we say it is so Essential a Commodity for the good of this Kingdom that it may well hold Comparison with our Wool either Sheeps Wool or Cotton Wool which the wisdom of the King and Parliament have so far indulged as not to lay any kind of Custom on either Secondly Since the East-India Companies Importation of great quantities thereof it is manifest that the Manufacturers thereof have increased as much in number as from one to four Thirdly For the Quality of what is brought from India it is the same and no otherwise than it is with all other Commodities upon the Face of the Earth of various Qualities and Conditions good bad and indifferent The Buyers and the Users are justly supposed to understand it better than we or the Turkey Merchants and do set their own price upon it at our Candle as they find it answer in it's use and goodness Secondly As to Wrought Silks plain from India 1. They are notoriously known to be the strongest and most durable as well as the Cheapest that comes from any part of the World 2. They are a Commodity generally exported from England to other parts 3. For those of them that are worn and used in England they do only hinder the Importation of the like quantity from France and Italy and do not at all prejudice the Silk Manufacture of England where they are very rarely or never made Thirdly As to Wrought Silks Flowered or Striped 1. We confess they do a little impede the growth of the Silk Manufacture in England but not to that degree in any measure as the Raw Silk Imported from India doth advance it 2. We say it would be unreasonable to forbid the East-India-Companies Trading in them except they were likewise forbidden to be Imported from any other part of the World But 3. If they could be effectually forbidden from all parts the East-India-Company would be glad to further as much as in them lies an Act of Parliament for that purpose and most earnestly If an invention could be found out to make such a Law practicable which is next to impossible as we find by experience every day in the French Silks which are to be seen almost upon every Silk-mans stall as well as on most peoples heads or backs notwithstanding the Act to the contrary Fourthly For Wrought Silks mixt with Gold and Silver they are indeed prejudicial to the Manufacturers of England the Company do Import none of them Notwithstanding they are Imported from India but it is by the Companies leave whether we will or no For if we should not permit them their Importation they would come in as much as now they do by stealth in our own Ships as well as by Interlopers One whereof Viz. The Prosperous Captain Crisp hath vast quantities aboard at this time If we should Prohibit them so far as in us lies there would be only this difference in the Case those kinds of Silks which now come openly and pay the King Custom would come in by stealth from all Forreign parts as well as India and pay nothing to His Majesty Notwithstanding which if a way can be found out by the Wisdom of Parliament to prevent the Importation of such kind of Wrought Silks as aforesaid from all parts of the World as well as from India none of His Majesties Subjects shall more rejoyce at the passing of such an Act than the East-India Adventurers But if we may presume by the way to offer our own Humble and Sincere opinion we do unfeignedly beleive that no Law that the Wisdom of men can invent hath or will so effectually advance the Trade of the Silk Manufacturers in England as the Importation of great quantities of Raw Silk from India so as to render that Material Silk as cheap in England as it is in any part of Europe where it grows As to the Accusation of sending Throasters Weavers and Dyers the East-India-Company say the whole Accusation is a mistake except only as to one or two Dyers which they have usually sent to the Bay of Bengala and no other part in India nor would they have sent any thither but that they did believe and think they are able to prove to your Lordships that it was for the Nations as well as the Companies advantage especially as to the plain Black Silks which they principally intended and such are generally a Forreign Commodity here very few