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A15735 A defence of M. Perkins booke, called A reformed Catholike against the cauils of a popish writer, one D.B.P. or W.B. in his deformed Reformation. By Antony Wotton. Wotton, Anthony, 1561?-1626.; Perkins, William, 1558-1602. Reformed Catholike.; Bishop, William, 1554?-1624. Reformation of a Catholike deformed: by M. W. Perkins. 1606 (1606) STC 26004; ESTC S120330 512,905 582

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at variance for euer with the Church of Rome For they erre in the foundation of religion making indeede an Idoll of the true God and worshipping an other Christ then we doe vnder new termes maintayning the idolatry of the heathen And therefore haue wee departed from them and so must wee still doe because they are idolaters as I haue proued speaker D. B. P. But this poynt of difference is made to bring in a common ar●ument of theirs to wit that the worshipping of the golden Calfe is condemned as flat Idolatrie and yet the Israelits worshipped not the Calfe but God in the Calfe to which we say they did not worship the true God in the Calfe but the God of the Egyptians which was taken by them to haue the shape of a blacke Calfe with white spots See S. Augustine And therefore making the golden calfe to represent this false god and att●ibuting their deliuerance vnto that supposed god and not vnto the God of Israel committed idolatry which the text prooueth most manifest these be thy gods that brought thee out of Egypt M. Perkins answereth that the meaning is nothing else but that the golden Calfe was a signe of the presence of the true God such glosses without any authority of the auncient fathers is ●idiculous being against the plaine text but sayth he we must not think● them so ●adde as to take a Calfe made with their care-rings to be their God no but we may well thinke them so vngratefull vnto the true God their deliuerer that they did ascribe their deliu●rance not to him but vnto that God which the Aegyptians serued whose purtraiture was that Calfe speaker A. W. This point of difference is brought in not to auow any argument of ours but to answere a distinction of yours who being dri●●n to shifts thinke to help the matter by telling vs that the Iewes worshipped the golden Calfe and therefore were condemned To which we replie that the Iewes did worship Iehouah in or by the Calfe which we prooue by the text it selfe s These be thy Gods that brought thee out of the lād of Egypt But it was the true God that brought them out of Egypt euen t Iehouah You answere that they attributed their deliuerance to that false God of the Egyptians Then did they thinke the Egyptian God to be Iehouah for to Iehouah do they consecrate the day of dedicating the Calfe u Tomorrow shall be the holy day to Iehouah But how ridiculous a conceipt is this to faine that the Iewes should imagin that the Egyptians God was their deliuerer whereas they knew that the great wise men of Egypt the chiefe worshippers of that God had striuen against Moses and their deliuerance by all meanes possible till at last they and the power of their God were ouercome So that indeede it was impossible they should be so sottish as to dreame that the Egyptian God had deliuered them And if this had bin their fault being a thing so monstrous and sensles God would certainely haue charged it vpon them when he laid out their sinne to Moses But he rather accuseth them for breaking his commaundement by making a molten Calfe affirming to it and proclaiming These are thy Gods that brought thee out of Egypt This is farther confirmed by those two calues which in imitation of this Ieroboam set vp to worship the true God by and so continued euen by Iehu who destroyed the heathen Idols The text prooues nothing for you These be thy Gods that brought thee out of Egypt For the Egyptians had no such Calfe to their God though the Oxe or Calfe called Apis as Austin●aith ●aith in the place alleaged was consecrated to their chiefe God Serapis If we brought nothing for our exposition but authoritie you might stop our months with the contrary iudgement of the auncient writers but against reason authoritie is of small force and yet you bring none for your selfe nor answere Master Perkins shewing that Images are called by the names of the things they re●… 〈◊〉 and so that calfe made to be a token of Iehouahs presence that brought them out of Egypt is said to be the God that brought them out of the land of Egypt speaker D. B. P. But now before we end this question I must let you ●●●erstand what worthy men they were that fi●st began to wage batte●● 〈◊〉 ●…ages they were the ●evves in their ●alm●● Ord. 2. tra●… 〈◊〉 a●… 〈◊〉 ●…od 〈◊〉 Act. 5. A ba●ba●ous Persian Xenias as 〈◊〉 N●… 〈◊〉 16 cap. 27. Then Ma●●met the great god of the Turkes Al●… 〈◊〉 15. 17. vvith such like infidels ●o●●●ers and the skumme of the earth See Cardinall Bella●mme de Jmag. lib. 2. cap. 6. speaker A. W. If these be the auncientest Authors you can bring that haue waged against Images I can goe beyond you many hundred yeeres What say you to Iacob who made all his houshold giue him their Images which he buried vnder an Oake that was by Shechim about the yeere of the world 2270 The commandement of God giuen on Mount Synah the preaching of the Prophets the zeale of many worthy Kings of Iuda were long before the Iewes Talmud which was begunne to be gathered and written more then 300. yeeres after Christ and was not finished till about the yeere 506. long before which time as I haue shewed Origen and Clement did not only speake against the Heathen Idols but defend the Christians for refusing to haue any Images and proue that the vse of them was vnlawfull and vnfit I shewed before about this matter of Xenaias who at soonest was aboue 400. yeeres after Christ that Images were withstood as vnlawfull euen in the beginning of preaching the Gospel This Nicephorus wrot not much more then 300. yeeres since As for Blasphemous Mahomet who patched vp his abhominable Alcoran with peeces of all kinds of professions though his intent was damnable and his writing most sottish yet hath he many things agreeable to the truth taken out of the bookes of Moses and in this point of Images his acknowledging of the truth shall make the more to your condemnation What should we do looking in Bellarmine if there were any thing for your aduantage more then that which you haue alleadged you might and would haue made bould with it as you do generally in all your answeres Bellarmine there tels vs a storie of the mislikers of Images but he neither begins where ●e should and dissents without any sufficient reason from Alphonsus a Castro and maketh that seauenth Councell his chiefest bulwarke speaker D. B. P. I vvill vvith one or tvvo testimonies of the auncientest Father● finish this controuersie I ●ctant I● car de pass Christ. Kne●le downe and adore the venerable w●od of th● Crosse. H●●rome 〈◊〉 vita Paulae She adored prostrate before the Crosse as if shee had se●●e Christ hanging on it Basil agai●st J●lian cited Act.
of any one syllable in matter of faith you may be sure that we Catholikes cannot but carrie a verie base conceipt of your doctrine who goe about vnder the ouerworne and thredbare cloake of reformation to deface and corrupt the purer and greater part of Christian Religion especially when they shall perceiue the most points of your pretended reformation to be nothing else but olde rotten condemned heresies new scoured vp and furbushed and so in shew made more saleable vnto the vnskilfull as in this treatise shall be proued in euery Chapter speaker A. W. TO THE REFORMATION OF THE PREFACE THere are many necessarie heads of saluation wherein we and you agree 1. The Trinitie 2. Redemption by Christ against all Iewes and Heathen 3. The Godhead of Christ against Arius 4. The vnitie of his person against Nestorius 5. The truth of his Manhood though by consequence you ouerthrow it against Eutyches 6. The Godhead of the holy Ghost against Macedonius and many other Which I alleage not to make any Papist beleeue that the differences betwixt vs and you are few or small but to shew that Master Perkins speakes not against reason We are perswaded that no man may shrinke from the truth of that which is deliuered in Athanasius Creede though we dare not peremptorily condemne euery man that hath not a distinct knowledge and beleefe of euery one of the seuerall articles We are wholy of I asils iudgement that euery one ought rather to lose his life than to suffer any one syllable of Gods truth in the Scripture to be betrayed and therefore wee forbeare to ioyne with the Church of Antichrist which preferres a corrupt translation before the text it selfe speaker W. P. REVEL 18. 3. And I heard another voyce from heauen say Goe out of her my people that ye be not pertakers of her sinnes and receiue not of her plagues speaker D. B. P. ANSWERE TO THE Prologue THE learned know it to be a fault to make that the entrie vnto our discourse which may as properly fit him that pleadeth against vs but to vse that for our proeme which in true sence hath nothing for vs nay rather beareth stronglie for our aduersarie must needs argue great want of iudgement Such is the sentence aboue cited out of S. John by M. Perkins for it being trulie vnderstood is so farre off from terrifying any one from the Catholike Romane Church as it doth vehementlie exhort all to fire vnto it by forsaking their wicked companie that are banded against it speaker A. W. TO THE REFORMATION OF THE PROLOGVE IF it fall out as I make no question but it will doe that the place chosen by Master Perkins be prooued to belong to the Church of Rome where is the fault then speaker W. P. IN the former chapter S. Iohn sets downe a description of the whore of Babylon and that at large as he saw her in a vision described vnto him In the sixteenth verse of the same chapter he foretels her destruction and in the three first verses of this 18. chapter he goeth on to propound the sayd destruction yet more directly and plainely withall alleadging arguments to prooue the same in all the verses following Now in this fourth verse is set downe a caueat seruing to forewarne all the people of God that they may escape the iudgement shall befall the whore and the wordes containe two parts a commaundement and a reason The commaundement Come out of her my people that is from Babylon The reason taken from the euent least ye be partakers c. Touching the commaundement first I will search the right meaning of it and then set down the vse thereof and doctrine flowing thence In historie therefore are three Babylons mentioned one is Babylon of Assyria standing on the riuer Euphrates where was the confusion of Languages and where the Iewes were in captinitie which Babylon is in Scripture reproched for Idolatrie and other iniquities The second Babilon is in Egypt standing on the riuer Nilus and is now called Cayr of that mention is made 1. Pet. 5. v. 13. as some thinke though indeede it is as likely and more commonly thought that there is meant Babylon of Assyria The third Babylon is mystical whereof Babylon of Assyria was a tipe and figure and that is Rome which is without question here to be vnderstood And the whore of Babylon as by all circumstances may be gathered is the state or regiment of a people that are the inhabitants of Rome and appertaine thereto This may be prooued by the interpretation of the holy Ghost for in the last verse of the 17. chapter the woman that is the whore of Babylon is said to be a citie which raigneth ouer the kings of the earth now in the daies when S. Iohn penned this booke of Reuelation there was no citie in the world that ruled ouer the kings of the earth but Rome it then being the seate where the Emperour put in execution his Imperiall authoritie Againe in the seuenth verse shee is said to sit on a beast hauing seuen heads and tenne hornes which seuen heads bee seuen hils vers 9. whereon the woman sitteth and also they bee seuen kings Therefore by the whore of Babylon is meant a citie standing on seuen hills Now it is wel known not onely to learned men in the Church of God but euen to the heathen themselues that Rome alone is the citie built on seuen distinct hills called Caelius Auentinus Exquilinus Tarpeius or Capitolinus Viminalis Palatinus Quirinalis Papists to helpe themselues doe alleadge that old Rome stood on seuen hills but now is remooued further to the plaine of Campus Martins I answer that howsoeuer the greatest part of the citie in regard of habitation bee not now on seuen hils yet in regard of regiment and practise of religion it is for euen to this day vpon these hilles are seated certaine Churches and Monasteries and other like places where the Papall Authoritie is put in execution and thus Rome being put for a state and regiment euen at this day it stands vpon 7. hils And though it be come to passe that the harlot in regard of her latter dayes euē changed her seate yet in respect of her younger times in which she was bred and borne she sate vpon the 7. hills Others because they feare the wounding of their own heads labour to frame these words to another meaning say that by the whore is meant the company of all wicked men in the world whersoeuer the diuell being the head thereof But this exposition is flat against the text for she is opposed to the kings of the earth with whom she is said to commit fornication and in the last verse she is called a citie standing on seuen hils and raigning ouer the Kings of the earth as I haue said and therefore must needs be a state of men in some particular place speaker D. B. P. For by the
commendation for discerning so much of the truth so may they bee excused if seeing Rome in their time a Christian famous Church they did not take it to be the seate of Antichrist But Hierome seemes rather to make against you because euen then he calles it Babylon in respect of Antichrist to come Your second and third reasons are of no more force For S. Iohn as I haue shewed spake not of Rome as it was then but as it was to be afterward and now hath been almost one thousand yeeres euen in temporall authoritie to which one of the Popes swords belongs Master Perkins rightly applies to Rome the words that fifteene hundred yeeres since were spoken of her as she is now the Popes Legates were nothing inferiour either for authoritie or exactions to the Romane Proconsuls But as it was foretold in a mysterie vnder a colour of spirituall gouernment ouerruling both in Ecclesiasticall and Ciuill matters he that remembers the bloodie massacre of so many thousands in a few daies not many yeeres agoe in France shall see that the Church of Rome shed blood enough at that one time to make her drunke as long as she shal continue yet what a small part was it of that which from time to time she hath bezeled in This section is nothing to purpose For who denies that there were as well Christians as Heathen in Rome in the Emperours daies The distinction Master Perkins denies is that S. Iohn speakes of Rome as it was vnder the Emperours and not of it as it hath been and is vnder the Popes which the authors you alleage meddle not with speaker W. P. S. Iohn writ a prophecie and therefore might well vse allegories besides he describes his Babylon so plaine that your selues are forced to confesse he meanes Rome by it S. Peter deales as an Apostle not as a Prophet and no where giues any inckling that by Babylon Rome should be meant Eusebius sets it not downe as his owne opinion but only recites it out of Papias from whom also it is apparant that H●●rome had it and in whom Eusebius saith there were many fabulous matters But let the distinction be as they suppose yet by their leaues hereby the whore must be vnderstood not onely heathenish Rome but euen the Papal or Ecclesiasticall Rome for the holy Ghost saith plainly that she hath made all nations drunke with the wine of the wrath of her fornication yea it is added that she hath committed fornication with the Kings of the earth wherby is signified that she hath indeauoured to intangle all the nations of the earth in her spirituall idolatrie and to bring the Kings of the earth to her religion Which thing cannot be vnderstood of the heathenish Rome for that left all the Kings of the earth to their owne religion and idolatrie neither did they labour to bring forraine Kings to worshippe their Gods Againe it is said that the ten hornes which be ten Kings shall hate the wh●re and make her des●late and naked which must not be vnderstood of heathenish Rome but of Popish Rome for whereas in former times all the Kings of the earth did submitte themselues to the whore now they haue begun to withdraw themselues and make her desolate as the King of Bohemia Denmarke Germanie England Scotland and other parts therefore this distinction is also friuolous They further alledge that the whore of Babylon is drunke with the blood of the Saints and Martyrs shed not in Rome but in Ierusalem where the Lord was crucified and the two Prophets being slaine lie there in the streets But this place is not meant of Hierusalem as Hierome hath fully taught but it may well be vnderstood of Rome Christ was crucified there either because the authority whereby he was crucified was from the Romane Empire or else because Christ in his members was and is there daily crucified though locally in his owne person he was crucified at Ierusalem And thus notwithstanding all which hath bin said wee must here by the whore vnderstand the state of the Empire of Rome not so much vnder the heathen Emperors as vnder the head thereof the Pope speaker D. B. P. Well M. Perkins is content in fine to allowe of that distinction of Heathenish and Ecclesiasticall Rome which before he esteemed ●o foolish And then will prooue that not the Heathenish but Ecclesi●st●ca●● 〈◊〉 is resembled to the purpell Harlot See what confidence this man hath in his owne shutle wit that now will prooue this and shortly after disproue it but let vs giue him the hearing The holy Ghost sayth plainely that she hath made all the vvorld drunke v●●th the vvine of the vv●ath of her fornication and yet addeth that she hath committed fornication vvith the Kings of the earth But this cannot be vnderstood of heathenish Rome for that left all the Kingdomes of the earth vnto their owne Religion and Idolatry and did not labour to bring them to worship the Roman Gods Ergo it must be vnderstood of Papall R●me I answere The Roman Empire being the head and principall promoter of all kinde of Idolatrie and maintaining and aduancing them that most vehemently opposed themselues against the Christian Religion who with any shew of reason can denie but they chiefly cōmitted spirituall fornication with the Kings of the earth if not by persvvading them to forsake their false Gods vvhich the Pagan Romans vvorship asvvell as they yet by encouraging and commanding them to perseuere in that filthie Idolatrie and to resist and oppresse the Christians vvheresoeuer Neither is that true that the Roman Emperours did not labour to bring other Nations to vvorship nevv Gods vvhen Nero and Domitian would be worshipped as Gods and for feare of Adrian one Antinous his seruant was worshipped as a God of all men as Iustinus Martyr testifieth These words of the text then agree very well with the Emperours who both were Idolaters and the chiefe Patrons of Idolatry but can in no sort be applied to the Romane Church which was th●n as the Protestants cannot deny a pure Virgin and most free from all spirituall fornication But that it is now become Idolatrous M. Perkins doth proue by his second reason gathered also I warrant you right learnedly out of the text it selfe where it is said that the ten Hornes which signifie ten Kings shall hate the whore and make her desolate and naked which as he saith must be vnderstood of Popish Rome For whereas in former times all the Kings of the earth did submitte themselues to the whore now they haue begunne to withdraw themselues and to make her desolate as the Kings of Bohemia Denmarke Germanie England Scotland and other parts In these his words is committed a most foule fault by grosse ouersight and ignorance in the very text What be England Scotland Denmarke as for Bohemia ruled by a Catholike Emperour it must be omitted as also many states of Germanie be these