bee much desired and conueniently expected that is such a Councell where euery man franke free may vtter his minde without feare an holy Councel where euery mā may goe about to set vp godlines not to oppresse the trueth Such a Councell King Henrie the eight of worthie memorie in his protestation for the Church of England for not comming to the Councell of the Pope truely affirmeth that he desired and craued nothing so oft of God but because there is no hope of any such Councel seeing the Pope would be the chiefe doer in it and it is too vnreasonable that the same man should be both a partie and a iudge we doubt not but that it is lawfull by the word of God for euery Prince Duke Lord within his owne seignorie without any further delay or expectation by the aduice and Counsaile of the learned and godlie of the land according to Gods Lawe to reforme their Church First because all delay in matters of the Church are dangerous and inconueniences are at the first hand to be met withall as we see Act. 6. and Act. 15. immediatlie when any question did arise the Apostles assembled together In the Councel of Basile where it was decreed that the Pope was subiect to the Councels Panormitane a stiffe champion on the Popes side would haue the decree stayed till the returne of the Princes Embassadors But Arelatensis that worthy Cardinall stepped vp and shewed what danger there might be in a small delay by the example of Hannibal who deferring his going but one day to Rome was driuen cleane out of Italy hauing been very like to haue taken the citie if he had vsed the opportunitie But without all controuersie matters of faith ought not to be delayed which could not be auoyded if a generall Councel should alwaies be waited for Secondly a Prince hath the like authoritie in his dominion as the housholder hath in his house But euery man ought to reforme his house without any further delay aduisement or consultation as Iosua sayth I and my house will serue the Lord 24. vers 15. Wherefore the Prince may and ought to performe the like in his countrie Lastly we finde by experience that the Lord hath blessed such reformations which haue been made by Princes in their owne territories as that in Zuricke anno 1523. at Berne 1528. and the most happie reformation of our Church of England begun by King Henrie the 8. encreased by that most vertuous Prince King Edward the 6. and prosperouslie continued and established by our gracious Soueraigne Queene Elizabeth I will adde the testimonie of Augustine who answering to the Pelagians which obiected that they were condemned by certaine single Bishops in their owne Diocesse without a Synode he sayth thus Ac si congregatione synodi opus erat vt aperta pernicies damnaretur quasi nulla haeresis aliquando nisi synodi congregatione damnata sit c. cont 2. Epistol Pelag. lib. 4. cap. 12. As though saith he a Synode or Councel were alwayes necessarie to condemne a knowne heresie Nay wee finde that more heresies without comparison haue been in the same places condemned where they first sprang without any such necessitie more so then otherwise THE SECOND QVESTION BY WHOSE AVthoritie Councels ought to be called The Papists THey doe generally hold that generall Councels ought onely to be called and appoynted by the Popes authoritie or his assignment their goodly reasons error 30 are these 1 Councels ought to bee congregate in the name of Christ that is by him that hath authoritie from Christ so to congregate them see here is a goodly exposition to assemble in the name of Christ is to assemble by the authoritie of the Pope so belike where Christ saith wheresoeuer two or three are gathered together in my name c. Christ will not bee present with them vnlesse we send vp to Rome for license that two or three may come together 2 Generall Councels should be appoynted by them that haue generall authoritie to commaund men to come to the Councell but this authoritie ouer the whole Church neuer any Emperour had in such ample manner as the Pope hath Ergo. Answere first it is a great vntruth that the Popes spirituall iurisdiction which he falsely challengeth was at any time greater then the Emperours dominion for Constantine ruled ouer both the West and East Churches but the Churches of Greece were neuer nor are not to this day subiect to the sea of Rome For Pope Eugenius would haue dissolued the Councell of Basile vnder this pretence because the Greekes which should come vnto the Councell for the vniting of their Church would not passe the Alpes but this vniting neuer went forward Anno. 1431. Agayne if the commaundement of one Emperour or Potentate bee not large enough to appoynt a generall Councell as in these dayes it is not it may bee done by the consent and agreement of Princes The Protestants WE hold it as a fond and ridiculous assertion that generall Councels should be ruled at the Popes becke but that this authoritie is due and hath been of olde vnto Christian Princes and Magistrates and the Pope in so doing doth but vsurpe vpon their right 1 That the Pope hath not absolute authoritie to call remoue dissolue or establish Councels it is proued out of scripture for Act. 6.2 the twelue Apostles and not Peter onely whose successor the Pope doth falsely chalenge to be called the multitude together about the election of Deacons 2 The Councels in times past were sommoned by the Emperours which our aduersaries themselues cannot denie as the Nicene first by Constantine the great Constantinopolitane 1. by Theodosius the elder Ephesin 1. by Theodosius the younger Chalcedonens by Martianus But say our aduersaries these Councels were not appoynted without the consent of the Bishops of Rome I meruaile they are not ashamed so to say for when Theodosius called the Councell of Chalcedon Leo then Bishop of Rome neither liked the time for hee would haue had it deferred nor the place being desirous to haue it in Italy yet he was content to obey the Emperours commaundement and sent his Agents to the Councel there to appeare for him Epist. 41.47.48 ad Martianum This was alleadged by Tonstal and Stokeslie two archpapists in their Epistle to Cardinall Poole 3 It is a good reason which was alleadged in the Councell of Basile that if Popes onely should call Councels there should be no meanes left to withstand a wicked and vicious Pope Who would thinke say they that the Bishop of Rome would congregate a Councel for his owne correction or deposition 4 The Pope hath no more authoritie nor by their leaue nothing like as Peter had but he challenged not this dignitie amongst the Apostles to summon Councels We reade of foure onely Councels of the Apostles say the fathers of Basile for this also is their argument the first was for the choosing of Matthias Act. 1. congregate at the
of them hold great scorne to be named Papists yet I see no reason why they should so doe The Rhemists like this name well enough because it is not deriued from any one man but from their Popes and chiefe Bishops to whom say they we are bound to cleaue in Religion and obey in all things So to be a Papist say they is to be a Christian man a child of the Church and a subiect to Christs Vicar Seeing then this name pleaseth their ghostly fathers of Rhemes so well there is no reason why they should mislike it and therefore we will vse it still as best expressing their profession who are pinned vpon the Popes sleeue for their faith and Religion As likewise the name of Protestants we refuse not which name I thinke tooke beginning in England in King Henry the eights daies when there was a generall protestation made in the name of the King the whole Councel and Clergie of England against the Pope In the which protestation thus we finde England hath taken her leaue of popish crafts for euer neuer to be deluded with them hereafter Romane Bishops haue nothing to doe with English people the one doth not traffique with the other at the least though they will haue to deale with vs we will none of their marchandise none of their stuffe Thus we see how a Papist and a Protestant are defined A Papist is he that cleaueth to the Pope in Religion and is obedient to him in all things A Protestant is he that professeth the Gospell of Iesus Christ and hath renounced the iurisdiction of the sea of Rome and the forced and vnnaturall obedience to the Pope These names therefore as best fitting both our professions seeing no cause to the contrary I purpose euery where to vse and retaine throughout this Treatise I would here finish and make an end of this Preface but that first I must make the Reader acquainted with the order and methode which I haue followed in setting downe the controuersies The whole bodie therefore of the controuersies betweene the Papists and vs our worthie and learned countriman D. Whitakers hath digested and disposed into a singular Methode the which I haue propounded to my selfe throughout this discourse to obserue The heresies and errours therefore of Poperie doe either impugne the offices of Christ with his benefites and merites or his person the most of them are of the first kinde some errours they maintaine against his person but not many First the name of Christ sheweth his offices for it signifieth annointed he was annointed to be our Prophet King and Priest Iesus betokeneth a Sauiour and setteth forth the benefites of our redemption and saluation First then of his offices and then of the benefites that do arise and spring thereof The first office of our Sauiour Christ is to be our heauenly teacher and Prophet His heauenly doctrine is conteined no where els but in the Scriptures The first generall controuersie then must be of the Scriptures where there arise many questions as of the Canonicall bookes of the Scripture of the vulgare translation of Scripture of the perspicuitie and plainenesse authoritie interpretation and perfection of Scripture with such other The second office of Christ is to be our King and because his kingdome is his Church here we are to handle the controuersies about the Church Which is either the Church Militant vpon earth or the Church Triumphant in heauen The Church militant is to be considered either in generall where these questions are moued what the Church is whether it be visible or not by what markes it is knowen whether it may erre what authoritie it hath Then the parts of the Church which are either assembled and gathered together as in generall Councels where these doubts must be discussed whether generall Councels be necessary by whom they ought to be summoned whether they can erre whether the Pope be aboue Councels or not and such like Or els the parts of the church are seuerally to be considered and they are of three sortes either the chiefe parts the middle and meane parts the lowest and basest parts of the Church The chiefe member they make to be the Pope where there are many questions and of great waight as whether the regiment of the Church be Monarchicall whether Peter were appointed head of the Church whether the Pope be Peters successour whether he may erre whether the Pope be Antichrist with such other The middle parts are their Clerkes which are either secular as they call them which haue any Ecclesiasticall function where we must enquire of their election degrees of their single life and such like the Regular Clerkes are their Monkes and other of that profession where we must entreat of vowes of their solitarie life their habite their Canonicall houres with other matters The lowest members are the lay men where the questions about the Ciuill Magistrate must be handled as whether he may put heretikes to death whether he haue any power and authoritie in Ecclesiasticall matters and hetherto of the Militant Church The triumphant Church consisteth either of Angels or other Saints departed Concerning the Angels we dissent about the orders and degrees of them about their ministerie and office and whether they are to be prayed vnto Concerning the Saints departed there are many questions in controuersie as of Purgatory Lymbus Patrum whether they are to be praied vnto of their Reliques Images Temples Holie daies and such like The third office of Christ is his Priesthood whereof there are two parts his intercession where we must enquire whether Christ be the onely Mediatour of intercession and his Sacrifice where the maine and great controuersie concerning the Sacraments doth offer it selfe for by the Sacraments the power and efficacie of the death of Christ is deriued vnto vs. Here first we must entreate of the Sacraments in generall as of their number their efficacie the difference betweene the Sacraments of the olde and new Testament then in particular as of Baptisme and the seuerall questions thereto belonging of the Lords Supper where also the great controuersie about their Idolatrous sacrifice of the Masse and other necessary questions must be handled Then follow in order fiue other popish Sacraments to be considered of confirmation penaunce extreme vnction orders matrimony And these are the controuersies concerning the offices of Christ. The controuersies which concerne the benefits of our redemption with other seuerall questions are these as of predestination of sin of the law of free will of faith of good workes the particular questions are set forth at large in other places Lastly there remaine some questions about the person of Christ 〈◊〉 whether he be 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is God of himselfe whether he encreased in wisedome whether he suffered in soule whether he merited for himselfe with such other Thus haue we the summe body of Antichristiā doctrine which we purpose by the grace of God to goe
the Pope or any else bee the head the Church is his bodie which Bellarmine is a shamed to graunt yet Pope Athanasius doubted not to call populos mundi partes corporis sui the people of the Worlde the partes of his bodie Againe if he be the head hee must doe the duetie of an head which is to knit and ioyne the parts together and to giue effectuall power to euery part Ephes. 4.16 Where the Apostle alludeth to the gouernement of mans bodie in the which the parts receiue a double benefite from the head the knitting and ioyning together by sinewes which come from the head and sense and motion also giuen to euery part from the head but it were blasphemie to thinke this of the Pope that he giueth any influence to the Church If they answer he is but a ministeriall head Christ is the principall We say againe that although these things are principallie wrought by the principall head yet they must bee done instrumentally or Ministerially by the Ministeriall head or else it is but a rotten head such an one as the Wolfe found in a caruers shop as you knowe the fable is a goodly head saith hee but without wit or braine If Christ performe all the duetie of the head himselfe then is there no other head if the Pope doe somewhat that belongeth to the head tell vs what is it If hee will bee an head and doe nothing surely hee must needes bee a brainelesse and witlesse head 2 It is a daungerous and impossible thing to haue the charge of all Churches committed to one man GOD alone is sufficient to beare that burthen Saint Paule saith who is sufficient for these things No pastor or minister that is but set ouer one flocke or parish is sufficient to preach the worde much lesse is any one man sufficient to gouerne the whole Church Bellarmine answereth first Saint Paul saith of himselfe that hee had the care of all Churches 2. Corinth 11.28 We replie againe first then belike Saint Paul was vniuersall pastor and not Peter Secondly wee must consider that the Apostles were sent to all the world their calling was not limited when they had planted the Gospell in one place they did take care also for other places but now there is no such Apostolicall calling Thirdly Paul did not beare this burthen alone but the Apostles and Euangelists were his coadiutors and fellow-helpers Secondly sayth he why may not the care of the whole Church bee committed to one man as well as the gouernment almost of the whole world was appointed by God to Nabuchadnezzar Cyrus Augustus seeing the gouernement of the Church is easier then the ciuill and politike regiment We replie First wee neuer reade of any that had dominion ouer the whole world as the Pope chalengeth to haue ouer the whole Church which is dispersed throughout the world Secondly these great and large Monarches are saide to haue been giuen of God Dan. 2.37 Not that this large dominion and vsurpation ouer other countries so much pleased God for the people of God the Israelites in their most flourishing estate neuer had such soueraigntie ouer other countries but by voluntarie subiection as in Solomons dayes 1. King 4.21 the Kings round about brought presents vnto him But because the Lord turned and vsed this their large and mightie dominion to the good of his Church for Cyrus was a defender of the Church against all that bare euill will thereat and the large Empire of the Romans serued very commodiously for the propagation of the Gospell Thirdly the Iesuite sheweth his skill when he saith that the regiment of the Church is easier then the gouernement of the common-wealth Whereas there is no greater and waightier burthen vpon earth then is the charge of soules It seemeth the Pope taketh his ease finding the care of the Church to be so easie and pleasant a thing in deede as he vseth it it is no great matter for hee preacheth not but giueth himselfe to ease and idlenes and all princely pleasures But England hath found by experience and so did that worthie and famous Prince King Henry the eight that there was neuer matter so hardlie compassed as was the reformation of the Church and the suppression of idolatrie and superstition in this lande Augustine saith Nemo nostrum se episcopum episcoporum constituit aut quasi tyrannico terrore ad obsequēdi necessitatem collegas suos adigit de Baptis 2.2 None of vs doth count himselfe a Bishop ouer other Bishops or taketh vpon him after a commaunding manner as tyrants vse to enforce his fellowes to obey Ergo by his iudgement all Bishops are of like and equall authoritie THE SECOND QVESTION WHETHER PETER were the chiefe and Prince of the Apostles and assigned by Christ to bee head of the Church The Papists THis our aduersaries doe stiffelie maintaine that he was not only head of the error 37 Church but of the Apostles also Bellarmi lib. 1. de pontif cap. 11. And the Rhemists doubt not to call him the chiefe and Prince of the Apostles 1. Corinth 9. ver 5. 1 Wee will omitte manie of their waightie arguments as out of these and such like places I haue prayed for thee Peter that thy faith should not fayle cast forth thy net into the deepe I will make thee a Fisher of men Peter payed toll for Christ and himselfe Peter drew the net to the land full of great fish Peter onely drew out his sword in the defence of Christ. Ergo Peter was the Prince of the Apostles and head of the Church ex concil Basilien Fox pag. 673. Such other goodlie arguments our Rhemists doe make Peter did excommunicate Ananias and Sapphira he healed the sicke by his shadow Ergo he was the head of the Church Annot. 5. Acts se. 5.8 Againe Peters person was garded with foure quaternions of Souldiours Act. 12.4 the Church prayed for him Ibid. sect 4. Paul nameth Cephas 1. Cor. 9.5 Ergo hee was chiefe of the Apostles Are not here goodlie arguments thinke you To these reasons I neede make no other answere then that which our learned countrie man dooth in his Annotations You must saith he bring better arguments or else children will laugh you to scorne Fulk Annot. Act. 5. sect 5. Let vs see therefore if they haue any better arguments 2 They take that to be a maine inuincible place for them Matth. 16.18 Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke will I builde my Church Ergo the Church is built vpon Peter To make this argument the more strong they set vnder it diuerse props First why did Christ giue Peter this name more then to any other of the Apostles to call him Peter of Petra a Rocke but to shew that hee was appointed to be the foundation of the Church Bellarmine cap. 17. Wee answer Christ hereby signified that Peter should bee a principall piller of his Church as the rest of the Apostles Ephes. 2. He chaunged also the
so well knowne in stories that I neede not come to particulars 6 Antichrist is called a wicked man and a man of sinne vers 3.8 And where shall you finde more wicked men then among the Popes Siluester the 2. gaue his soule to the diuell to obtayne the Papacie Fox pag. 167. Benno reporteth of Hildebrand that he poysoned sixe Popes to come to the Popedome Pope Stephen and Sergius tooke vp the bodie of Formosus and mangled it cutting off his head and fingers and so cast it into Tibris Fox pag. 120. We haue heard before what a holy Father Pope Iohn the 13. was he lay with his owne sister and with his fathers Concubines playing at dice called for the diuell was slayne in adulterie And was it not I pray you a common prouerbe in England He that goeth to Rome once seeth a wicked man he that goeth twise learneth to know him he that goeth the third time bringeth him home with him Fox pag. 841. argument Illyrici The third place we doe take out of the Apocalyps chap. 9. where is a playne storie set downe of the Pope 1 vers 1. He is a starre fallen from heauen he is departed from the ancient faith of Rome to superstition and idolatrie 2 He hath the key of the bottomlesse pit who giueth the crosse keyes in his armes but the Pope who sayth hee may euacuate all Purgatorie at once if hee will but he Who sayth he may Pleno iure currus animarum plenos secum ad tartara detrudere by full right carrie downe to hell with him charriots Ioden with soules cap. si Papa distinct 42. Is not this the Pope who then more fitly may be sayd to haue the key of the bottomlesse pit 3 There arise out of the bottomlesse pit a great flocke of Locusts that is the innumerable sort of begging Friers for they are in euery respect described First compared to Locusts for their number vers 3. There were an 100. diuers sorts of Friers Fox pag. 260. Secondly they had power giuen them for fiue moneths that is as Walter Brute expoundeth it taking a moneth for thirtie dayes a day for a yeere as it is prophetically taken an 150. yeeres for so long it was from the beginning of the Friers vnder Innocent the 3. anno 1212. to the time of Armachanus who preached disputed and wrote agaynst the Friers about anno 1360. Fox pag. 414. Thirdly they shall sting like Scorpions not slay all at once but venome and poyson the conscience with the sting of their pestilent doctrine Fourthly other parts also of the description agree as vers 7. They are as horses prepared to battaile that is stoute ambitious their haire as the haire of women that is they shall be effeminate and giuen to the lusts of the flesh their teeth as the teeth of Lions they by valiant begging shall deuoure the portions of the poore as it was well proued in King Henry the 8. dayes in the Supplication of beggars that the summe of the Friers almes came to a great summe in the yeere for the fiue orders of Friers had a penie a quarter for euery one of euery housholder throughout England that is for them all twentie pence by the yeere suppose that there be but ten housholds in euery towne and let there be twentie thousand parishes and townes in England it will not want much of twentie thousand pound Thus had they Lions teeth that is consuming and deuouring Lastly they haue a King vers 11. whose name is Abaddon a destroyer for the Pope their chiefe prince and patron hath by his Antichristian doctrine layd wast the Church of God Argument Chytraei The fourth place of scripture wee will take out of the 17. of the Apocalyps there the seate of Antichrist is described First vers 5. It is called Babylon the citie which raigneth ouer the Kings of the earth vers 18. This can be no other but Rome which then had the Empire of the whole world Secondly It is the citie built vpon seuen hils or mountaynes vers 9. that is no other but Rome Thirdly the whore which is Antichrist shall sit vpon the beast with seuen heads and ten hornes that is shall succeede in the Empire and haue the authoritie thereof so hath the Pope Fourthly the ten hornes that is the Kings of the earth shal giue their authoritie to the beast but afterward shall deuoure her flesh Euen so the Kings of the earth by their sword maintayned the authoritie of the Pope But now being taught by the Gospell they are made the Lords free men and begin to subdue their neckes from his yoke The fift place is 1. Iohn 2.22 Who is a lyar but he that denyeth that Iesus is Christ the same is Antichrist that denyeth the father and the sonne Euen so the Pope of Rome though not openly and apertly yet closely and subtilly is an enemie vnto the whole trinitie He exalteth himselfe aboue God the father because he taketh vpon him to dispense not onely agaynst the lawe of nature but agaynst the lawe of God the morall law and agaynst the precepts both of the old and new testament but a lawe cannot be dispensed withall but by the same authoritie or greater Agaynst Iesus Christ he exalteth himselfe and all his offices he denyeth him to be the onely Prophet saying the scriptures are vnperfect and that their traditions are also necessarie to saluation Agayne he maketh other bookes scripture then those which are Canonicall His kingly office he doth arrogate to himselfe in making lawes to binde the conscience in ordayning other Sacraments in granting Indulgences and Pardons saying that he is the head of the Church His Priesthood he is an enemie vnto constituting another priesthood after the order of Melchisedech then that of our Sauiour Christ which begun vpon the Crosse and remayneth still in his person being incommunicable to any other creature yet they make euery sacrificing Priest to bee of the order of Melchisedech He impugneth the office of the holy spirit counting that prophane which the holy Ghost hath sanctified as marriage and meates arrogateth in all things the spirit of truth not to erre applieth the merites of Christs passion after his owne pleasure by Pardons Indulgences by ceremonies and Sacraments of his owne inuention Fulk 2. Thess. 2. sect 10. Ergo we conclude out of S. Iohn that seeing he denieth Iesus to be Christ he is Antichrist Sixtly S. Paul sayth that Antichrist shal be an aduersarie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 2. Thess. 2.4 An aduersarie in doctrine teaching cleane contrarie to the Gospell of Christ so doth the Pope 1 The scripture sayth wee ought to put our trust onely in God and not in man Ierem. 17.7 and to call vpon God onely in the day of trouble Psal. 50.15 and to worship him in spirit and truth Iohn 4.24 The Papists say cleane contrarie that we must call vpon Saints and beleeue they can helpe vs and they teach vs to fall downe before
the time of Esdras till Christ and in our Sauiours time the Scriptures were not in the vulgare toung but onely in the Hebrue which the Iewes vnderstood not after the captiuitie Ergo it is not now necessary to haue them in the vulgare toūg That the people vnderstood not Hebrue the Iesuite proueth out of the 8. of Nehemiah where it is said that Esdras did expoūd the law to the people because they vnderstood it not We answere that the text saith cleane contrary that he read the law before the people that vnderstood it v. 3. and they might geue the sense though the people vnderstood the language Concerning the places obiected out of the Gospell to proue the Iewes spake another language thē Hebrue as it appeareth by those speaches Marc. 5. Talitha cumi Math. 27. Golgotha which sauour not of the Hebrue toung we answere that although they spake not pure Hebrue but many straunge wordes were vsed yet they vnderstood the Hebrue for why els doth Christ bid the people to search the Scriptures And they were not the Iewes but the Romane souldiers that vnderstood not the voyce of Christ vpon the Crosse saying he called for Elias 2 The Apostles saith the Iesuite wrote their Epistles onely in Hebrue or Greeke and not in the vulgare tounges of the natiōs to whom they preached Ergo it is not necessary that the scriptures should be in the vulgare toung We answere First it had bene an infinite labour for the Apostles to haue left their writings in euery language neither was it necessary seeing out of the original they might be trāslated into euery language Secōdly they preached the same things vnto the Gētiles in their own toūgs which they afterward left in writing Thirdly the Greeke toūg wherein they wrote was vniuersally knowen and few countryes were ignorant of it especially in the East parts 3 There is no cause say they why the Scriptures should be translated if it be for the vnderstanding of the people they vnderstād them not being translated neither We aunswere many things they may easely vnderstand and for the harder places they are nearer the vnderstanding of them being translated then before for then they haue two great lets the toung vnknowen and the obscure and hid sense now they need not to labour for the toung but onely for the sense 4 The Scriptures are occasion of offence and heresie being not right vnderstood Ergo. First because many surfet of meats and drinkes it is no reason that sober men should be forbidden the vse of them no more for heretikes wicked mens sakes ought the people of God to be barred from Scripture Secondly more haue perished by ignorance in Scripture then by misunderstanding it and the Scripture was ordained of God to meete with offences and to confute heresies 2. Tim. 3.15 Wherefore these men make them selues wiser then God that thinke the Scripture is an occasion of those diseases for the which it is apppointed a remedie The Protestantes WE do beleeue and hold that it is requisite expedient and necessarie for the Scriptures to be vttered and set forth in the vulgare and commō speach and that none vpon any occasion ought to be prohibited the reading thereof for knowledge and instructions sake and that Christian Magistrates ought to prouide that the people may haue the Scriptures in their mother knowē toung Wherefore great wrong was offered to the people of England that diuerse 100. yeares till king Henrie the eight could not be suffred to haue the Scriptures in English And how I pray you did the Papistes storme when as Tindals translatiō came forth some affirming that it was impossible to haue the Scriptures trāslated into English some that it would make the people heretikes others that it would cause thē to rebell Fox pag. 117. col 1. What fowle and shamefull slaunders were these For the vulgare translations of Scripture we reason thus 1 It is Gods commandement that the Scriptures should be read before the people that they may learne to feare God Deut. 31. vers 11.12 The people are commanded to write the law vpon their gates and in their houses to conferre and talke with their children and teach them the law Deut. 6.6.7.8 And our Sauiour biddeth the people search the Scripture Iohn 5. v. 39. Ergo what God hath commaunded no man ought to prohibite or forbid the people therfore must not be kept from reading of Scripture 2 Without Scripture there is no faith faith is necessarie for all people Ergo the knowledge of the Scripture that faith cōmeth by the scriptures read Iohn 20.31 these things are written that ye might beleeue Iesus Christ to be the sonne of God Againe the weapons of Christiā men are not denied to any whereby they should fight against their spirituall enemies but the word of God is a speciall part of our harnesse and a principall weapon euen the sword of the spirite Ergo. 3 The Gospell may be preached in the vulgare toung as our blessed Sauiour and the holy Apostles taught the people Ergo the word of God may be read and writtē in the vulgare toung The proposition our aduersaries graunt that Sermōs may be made in the vulgare toung but it foloweth not say they that therefore Scripture should be in the mother toung Rhem. 1. Cor. 14.8 But I pray you how can the preacher alledge Scripture in his Sermō vnlesse it be recited in the vulgare toung or how should the people know they preach the word vnlesse they may compare their doctrine with Scripture as the Berrheans did Act. 17. 4 We haue the practise of the Church of God in times past for our warrant for in Chrisostomes time the people had vulgare translations whereupon he exhorteth them to get them Bibles or at the least the new Testament the Actes of the Apostles the Gospels Homil. 9. Epist. ad Coloss. We heard before that the Armenians Sclauonians Gothes had the Scripture in their own language so many hundred yeares ago in England king Alured translated the Psalter a copie whereof was found in Crowland Abbey called S. Guthlakes Psalter as M. Lābert witnesseth and Bede our learned country man translated S. Iohns Gospell Fox pag. 1115. col 2. The Rhemistes also confesse that more then 300. yeare ago the Italians had the Bible translated and the French men aboue 200. yeares ago Praefatan Testam 4. sect Why should not the people of God haue the same libertie now freely to read the Scriptures as they haue had in times past 5 Let vs heare Augustines opinion Lectiones diuinas saith he in Ecclesia sicut consuestis audite in domib vestris relegite I would haue you both to attend vnto the publike readings in the Church and in your house to read ouer againe the holy lessons but how could the people read them at home if they were not in their vulgare toung AN APPENDIX OR PART OF THIS question concerning publike prayers and diuine seruice in the
resurrection of Christ. Bellarmine aunswereth first that the Pharisies were priuiledged not to erre onely till the cōming of Christ. We replie againe First after Christ was come they sate in Moses chaire and Christ biddeth they should be heard Math. 23.2 if they erred not afore neither could they now for they were not displaced out of Moses chaire but the truth is they neuer had any such priuiledge not to erre Secondly if the Pharisies were now prone to error then by our aduersaries owne confession they ceased to be the church Ergo the church was not now visible for in them it was not and the Apostles fled from Christ and shifted for them selues how could then the church be visible to the world Secondly the Iesuite aunswereth concerning the Apostles First the Apostles were not yet entred into their office and Bishoprike but onely appointed to it and therefore they might erre We replie againe First they were not onely appointed Apostles but partly already they had exercised their Apostleship for they were sent forth to preach the Gospell and had power and commission to worke miracles and heale diseases Math. 10 how then is not the Iesuite ashamed to say that they were not yet Pastors nor Apostles Secondly if the Pharisies erred and the Apostles erred then all the world was in error Ergo by their saying at this instant there was no church vpon the earth which is a great absurditie for the church erreth not they say Secondly saith the Iesuite the Apostles erred not in faith they were reproued for not beleeuing the resurrection which beliefe because they had not yet receiued they could not loose it We reply First though they had not erred in any materiall point yet if there were any error at all in them it is sufficient for our purpose that they erred it is manifest for they fled away from Christ. Secondly he excuseth them for their infidelitie concerning the resurrection because this faith they had not yet receiued But had not Christ I pray you often instructed them of this matter and if this were no such error in them then Christ was to sharpe in reprouing them for their infidelitie Thirdly it appeareth that they wholly were deceiued concerning the Messiah Luke 24.21 the two Disciples say they trusted that it had bene he that should haue deliuered Israell see then what weake aunswers these are did these felowes thinke that their gloses should not be examined or that their dreames should be taken for oracles 2 The church of the Iewes erred before our Sauiour Christes comming Ergo the true church may erre The proposition is proued In the time of the raigne of good kings they did offer sacrifice vpon hill altars but onely to the Lord which was an error 2. Kings 12.3.14.4 The feast of the Passeouer was not kept so precisely according to Gods word at any time before no not in the raigne of the best kings as it was in the 18. yeare of Iosias raigne 2. King 23.22 The feast of Tabernacles had not bene so solemnly and truly kept from the dayes of Iosua as it was in Nehemiahs time Nehem. 8.18 Ergo all this while the church of the Iewes erred somewhat in the externall worship of God Fulk Ephes. cap. 5. Sect. 4. 3 Augustine saith Quomodo erit Ecclesia in isto tempore perfecta sine macula ruga cuius mēbra non mendaciter confitentur se habere peccata How can the church be perfect in this life without spot or wrincle whose members do truly confesse that they are not without sinne Ergo the church sinneth and is imperfect and why not subiect to error But in the Councell of Basill it was denied as ye heard that the church could sinne THE SECOND PART WHETHER THE visible Church may fayle vpon the earth The Papistes error 17 THey hold that it is impossible that the visible church should vtterly fayle vpon the earth and fall from God but that there shall alwayes be a visible and knowen church vpon the earth hauing a perpetuall succession of Pastors and Doctors where the true worship of God shal be preserued and kept Bellarmin lib. 3. de Eccles. cap. 13. 1 These and such places of Scripture they stand vpon Math. 16. the gates of hell shall not preuaile against it Math. 28. I wil be with you to the end of the world Psal. 88. his throne shal be as the Sunne and endure as the Moone Ergo the visible church shall not fayle vpon earth Bellarmin We aunswere that these places must be vnderstood of the catholike and vniuersall church whereof we denie not but euery true particular church is a part This church is the spouse of Christ this church shall not perish this is the kingdome of Christ with this church will he alway be present to the end of the world we denie not but that the inuisible church shall continue vpon the earth so long as the world endureth Secondly those places are vnproperly vnderstood of the visible church for therein are both good and bad how thē can that be the spouse of Christ where there are many infidels and wicked ones which haue not espoused themselues vnto him how can it be called his kingdome whereas it is not of all acknowledged But in the true catholike church all and euery one are espoused to Christ all and euery one haue the kingdome of God within them as it is Luke 17. ver 21. 2 They do abuse that place of S. Paule Ephe. 4.11 he gaue some to be Apostles some Euangelistes some pastors and teachers for the gathering together of the Saints Ergo the church shall alwayes be visible till all the Saintes are gathered together Bellarmin cap. 13. Rhemistes Ephes. 4. Sect. 5. We aunswere this place proueth that the church hath neuer wanted pastors and teachers for the continuance of the truth neither shall euer be without them as the Lord said by the Prophet Isay. 59. ver 21. My spirite which is vpō thee my words which I haue put into thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor the mouth of thy seede for euer We therfore denie not but that in all ages yea in the most ignoraunt times of Poperie God raised vp faithfull teachers vnto his church although they were not mitred and croziard Bishops neither could shew any outward pompe or boast of any glorious successiō Such were Gulielmus de S. Amore Arnoldus de noua villa an 1240. Berengarius Ioachim Abbas in the time of Innocentius 3. Wikclef Bruto Swinderby Badby and others about anno 1400. with many which were not knowen to the world for the truth neuer in any age wanted witnesses By the continuance of the truth and right faith we gather that there haue bene alwayes faithfull teachers though not notorious to the world and shal be but who they were and where they liued what pompe what authoritie they were of it is not materiall to know wherefore an outward visible succession
Prophet in the midst Euen thus with the like spirite of blasphemie doo the Iesuites crie out that the Pope is the chiefe shepheard steward husband and head of the Church vpon earth But we will leaue to charge them so deepely with blasphemie which notwithstanding they cannot auoyde Let vs heare what the fathers of Basile say to this poynt Bellarmine saith the Pope is the husband but they reason cleane contrarie the Church say they is the spouse of Christ the Pope make the best of him you can is but a Vicar but no man dooth so ordaine a Vicar that hee maketh his spouse subiect vnto him but that the spouse is alwaies thought to be of more authoritie then the Vicar forsomuch as she is one body with her husband but the Vicar is not so thus haue they to the full answered the Iesuite ex Aenea Syluio Better arguments they haue none for the Popes prerogatiue then we haue seene The Protestants THat the Pope is by right and ought to be subiect to generall Councels and that they haue authoritie to iudge examine suspend punish depose him if there be iust cause it is proued thus This matter was pithilie disputed vpon by the Fathers of Basile some of whose reasons it shall bee sufficient heere to followe 1 They proue this conclusion out of Scripture First whereas Panormitane had saide that the Pope was Lorde of the Church vnto him Segouius answered that it was the most honourable title of the Bishop of Rome to be called the seruant of the seruants of God and Peter saith hee forbiddeth pastors to behaue themselues as Lords ouer the Clergie 1. Pet. 5. And if Christ the sonne of God came not to be ministred vnto but to minister and serue how then can his Vicar haue any dominion So was Panormitane answered Againe the Diuines thus argued Christ saith to Peter dic Ecclesiae Peter is sent to the Church or Councell Ergo the veritie doth remit the Bishop of Rome to the Councell But to this the Iesuite saith that Peter was not yet entred into his office to bee chiefe Bishop but was as a priuate person So then belike this rule of our Sauiour Christ dic Ecclesiae tell it to the Church did but binde Peter till Christ were ascended and he receiued his Vicar-dome This cauillous answere the Fathers of Basile wisely foresaw and preuented it for they shew how Peter was subiect to Councels euen after the ascension as Act. 11. Peter is rebuked say they by the congregation because he went to Cornelius an heathen man as if it had not been lawfull for him to attempt any great matter without the knowledge of the congregation but that seemeth to make more for the purpose Galath 2. where Paule rebuked Peter to his face because contrarie to the decree of the Councell of the Apostles hee did cogere gentes Iudaizare hee would constraine the Gentiles to doe like the Iewes Ergo Peter was subiect vnto the Councell ex Aenea Syluio Other reasons many were alleaged by the Fathers of Basile First the Bishop of Burgen As in euery well ordered Kingdome the whole realme should be of more authoritie then the King so the Church ought to be of more authoritie then the Pope though he were Prince thereof The Diuines brought these argumēts the Church is the mother of the faithfull and so of the Pope if he be a faithfull man the Pope is then the Churches sonne as both Anacletus and Calixtus Bishops of Rome confessed Ergo how much the sonne is inferiour to his mother so much is the Church superiour to the Pope Secondly the Pope is inferiour to Angels he is not greater then Iohn Baptist of whom it is said that the least in the Kingdome of God is greater then he but the Angels doe reuerentlie accord vnto the doctrine of the Church Ephes. 3.10 Ergo the Pope is bound to doo the same who is lesse then the Angels These Fathers thought none so absurd to denie the Pope to be inferiour to Angels and therefore labour not to proue it Yet Antoninus an olde Papist saith Non minor honor datur Papae quà m Angelis there is no lesse honour due to the Pope then to the Angels Nay another saith I thinke it be Pope Paschalis Datur Episcopis quod ne Angelis vt Christi corpus crearent it is graunted to Bishops which is not giuen to the Angels to create the bodie of Christ. But the Fathers of Basile thought not these men worthie the answere no more doe we and so let thē passe Thirdly the Pope say they being the Vicar of the Church for he is more truely so called then the Vicar of Christ he may be deposed of the Church for a Lord may put out his Vicar at his pleasure Ergo the Pope is vnder Councels 4 If the Councels might not ouerrule the Pope there were no remedie left to resist a wicked Pope Shall we suffer all things say they to run into ruine and decay with him for it is not like that hee would congregate a Councell against himselfe To this the Iesuite answereth that there is no remedie left but to pray to God in such a case who will either confound or conuert such a Pope Here is goodly diuinitie we know that Antichrist shall at length be destroyed at the comming of Christ but if he should be let alone in the meane while and not be bridled he might doe much hurt as he hath done too much alreadie Yet the Iesuite confesseth that a wicked Pope may bee resisted by force and armes and why not I pray you as well by peaceable meanes these sayings are contrarie Bellarm. cap. 19. So then this is Popish diuinitie that be the Pope neuer so wicked doe he neuer so much harme hee is not to bee controuled of any mortall man Such doultish schoole poynts maintained especially by begging friers the fathers of Basile complained of As that they should say that no man ought to iudge the high and principall seate that it cannot be iudged either by Emperour Clergie King or people Other affirme that the Lord hath reserued to himselfe the depositions of the chiefe Bishop Others yet more mad are not ashamed to affirme that the Bishop of Rome though hee carrie soules in neuer so great number to hell yet is he not subiect to any correction or rebuke For all these straunge and blasphemous positions the fathers concluded as yee haue heard that the Pope ought to obey generall Councels 4 Lastly I will adioyne the iudgement of Augustine who writing in his 162. Epistle concerning the Donatists whose cause was heard and determined by the Emperours appoyntment at Rome before Miltiades then Bishop there and other Bishops assistants and yet for all this the Donatists would not bee quiet Thus he saith Putemus illos iudices qui Romae iudicauerunt non bonos iudices fuisse Restabat adhuc plenarium Concilium c. Put case saith hee that the Bishop of Rome
more then was in the fountaine or originall seeing he receiued all from thence 3 What maketh this place I pray you for the power of externall iurisdiction Here it is saide that God gaue of his spirit to seauentie Elders and rulers of the people and enabled them for their office endued them with wisdome and knowledge and dexteritie in iudging of the people this maketh nothing for their purpose vnlesse they will also say that there is a secret influence of knowledge and wisdome deriued from the Pope to all other Bishops whereby they are made able to execute their office but I trow they will not say so for Alphonsus de castro truly saith of the Popes of Rome constat plures eorum adeo esse illiteratos vt grammaticam penitus ignorent it is certaine that many of them were so vnlearned that they hard and scant knew their grammar 4 The argument followeth not from one particular countrie as this was of the Iewes to the vniuersal Church that because the seauentie Elders receiued iurisdiction from Moses yet that cannot be proued out of this place for they were rulers before and commaunders of the people the were now but inwardly furnished and further enabled yet it were no good reason that therefore the Ecclesiasticall Ministers ouer the whole Church should receiue their power from one 5 Neither doth it follow that because the Prince and ciuill Magistrate may bestowe ciuil offices create Dukes Earles Lords constitute Iudges Deputies Lieutenants by his sole authoritie that by the same reason Ecclesiasticall ministers should receiue their power office from their superiors for although the Church from ancient time hath thought it good to make some inequalitie and difference in Ecclesiasticall offices for the peace of the Church yet the superiors haue not such a soueraigntie and commaunding power ouer the rest as the Prince hath ouer his subiects The Protestants THat Bishops haue not their Ecclesiastical iurisdiction from Rome but do as well enioye it by right of their consecration election institution in their owne precinctes circuites prouinces cities townes yea as the Pope doth in his Bishopricke and by much better right if they be good Bishops and louers of the truth thus briefely it is proued 1 The Apostles had not their iurisdiction from Peter but all receiued it indifferently from Christ this the Iesuite doth not barely acknowledge but proueth it by argument against the iudgement of other Papists cap. 23. Ergo neither Bishops are authorised from the Pope though he were Peters successor for if he were to graunt it for disputation sake he is no more to the Bishops of the Church then Peter was to the Apostles If hee gaue not the keyes to the Apostles neither doth the Pope Saint Peters successor to the Bishops the Apostles successors for they may with as great right challenge to bee the Apostles successors as he can to be Saint Peters Nay the Apostles gaue no power or iurisdiction to the Elders and pastors whom they ordained Act. 20.28 Take heede to the flocke ouer the which the holy Ghost hath made you Bishops or ouerseers and Ephes. 4.11 Hee hath giuen some to bee Apostles some Prophets some pastors and teachers so then the pastors and teachers though ordained by the Apostles yet had their calling and office frō God and not from the Apostles much lesse now can they receiue their power from any no not from the Pope for he is no Apostle no nor Apostolike man hauing left the Apostolike faith 2 Augustine saith Solus Christus habet authoritatem praeponendi nos in ecclesiae suae gubernatione de actu nostro iudicandi de baptis 2.2 Onely Christ hath authoritie saith hee to preferre vs to the gouernement of the Church and to iudge of our dooings the pastors then of the Church haue the keyes of the spirituall regiment from Christ himselfe not from the Pope or any other THE EIGHT QVESTION OF THE temporall iurisdiction and power of the Bishop of Rome THis question hath two partes first whether the Pope in respect of any spirituall error 51 iurisdiction haue also the chiefe soueraigntie in temporall and ciuill matters and so to be aboue Kings and Emperors secondly whether the Pope or any Bishop may be the chiefe Lord and prince ouer any Countrie Citie or Prouince THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE Pope directly or indirectly haue authoritie aboue Kinges and Princes The Papists THe Papists of former times were not ashamed to say that the Pope is the Lord of the whole Church as Panormitane in the Councell of Basile Fox page 670. Yea Pope Innocentius the third said writing to the Emperor of Constantinople that as the Moone receiued her light from the Sunne so the imperiall dignitie did spring from the Pope and that the papall dignitie was seuen and fortie times greater then the imperiall yea Kinges and Emperors are more inferior to the Pope then lead is to golde Gelasius distinct 96. But our later papists ashamed of their forefathers arrogancie in wordes seeme to abate somewhat of their proud sentence but in effect say the same thing For they confesse that the Emperor hath his office and calling of God and not from the Pope neither that the Pope directly hath any temporall iurisdiction but indirectly hee may depose Kinges and princes abrogate the lawes of Emperors and establish his owne he may take vnto himselfe the iudgement of temporall causes and cite Kings to appeare before him yet not directlie saith the Iesuite as hee is ordinarie Iudge ouer the Bishops and whole Clergie yet indirectlie as hee is the chiefe spirituall Prince hee may doe all this if hee see it necessarie for the health of mens soules And so in effect by their popish indirect meanes they giue him as great authoritie as euer hee vsurped or challenged Bellarmine lib. 5. cap. 6. 1 The Ecclesiasticall and ciuill power doe make but one bodie and societie as the spirite and the flesh in man Now the Ecclesiastical power which is as the soule and spirite is the chiefe part because it is referred to a more principall end namely the safetie and good of the soule the other is as the flesh to the spirite and respecteth but a temporall end as the outward peace and prosperitie of the common-wealth Ergo the spirituall power is chiefe and may commaund the other Bellarm. cap. 7. Ans. First it is a very vnfit and vnproper similitude to compare these two regiments to the soule and the bodie for by this meanes as the spirite giueth life to the bodie and euery parte thereof so the ciuill and temporall state should receiue their office and calling from the Ecclesiasticall which the Iesuite himselfe denieth and so directly the one should rule the other for the soule directly I trow not indirectly moueth the body and gouerneth it But if wee will speake as the Scripture doth we make all but one bodie and it is the spirit of Christ who is the head that giueth
effectuall power to euery parte Ephes. 4.15.16 2 It is false that the ciuill magistracie onely concerneth the outward and temporall commoditie onely for vnto Princes also is committed the chiefe care of religion and the worship of God They are to see true religion aduaunced yea to watch ouer Ecclesiasticall ministers and to charge them to looke to their offices the Prince is Gods minister for the wealth both of the soules and bodies of his subiects And therefore Saint Paul exhorteth to pray for Kings and gouernours that wee may liue not onely a peaceable life but in all godlines and honestie 1. Timoth. 2.2 Ergo it is parte of the magistrates office as to procure the peace of the people so to haue a care of their godlie life Wherefore it is false as the Iesuite supposeth that the chiefe ende of the ciuill gouernement is onely outward and temporall Ergo his argument is nothing worth 2 Azariah the high Priest droue Vzziah the King out of the temple when hee would haue burned incense and caused him to goe out of the citie and dwell apart 2. Chron. 26. Iehoiada likewise deposed Athalia 2. King 11. Ergo the Pope may depose wicked and vngodly Princes Bellarmine cap. 8. Answere First wee denie that there is now or ought to bee any such high Priest in the Church of God to haue the chiefe authoritie in spirituall matters as there was in the lawe for hee was the type and figure of Christ who is our high Priest and chiefe Bishop Secondly these examples doe not excuse the Popes tyrannie who hath deposed rightfull Kinges and Emperors and better then himselfe as Pope Zacharie deposed Childericus the French King and set vp Pipinus Gregorie the seuenth set vp Rodolphus against Henricus the fourth the Emperor Pope Paschalis set vp the sonne of the saide Henricus against his father But we will answere more particularly to these examples To the first First it was not the sole act of Azariah the high Priest but there were 80. Priests that ioyned with him beside and they all spake to the King this example therefore maketh nothing for the sole authoritie of the Pope who saith that he may depose the Emperor himselfe without any Councell Innocent 4. Secondly they did not depose Vzziah they onely withstoode him according to the lawe of God because hee vsurped the priests office so ought faithfull Bishops and pastors euen to reproue the greatest Magistrates for the manifest contempt and open breach of Gods lawe Neither did they constraine the King to goe forth before they saw the iudgement of God vpon him for the text saith they compelled him to go forth because the Lord had smitten him they saw the leprosie to rise vp in his face vers 20. This therefore was the extraordinarie iudgement of God and not of the high priest Thirdly he was not deposed from the Kingdome though he dwelt alone his son did execute the office only for him and raigned after him for being a leper by the law he was to dwell apart Leuit. 13.46 Here was nothing done we see by the sole authoritie of the high Priest but they had the manifest and direct lawe of God vnto the which their Kings also were subiect To the second example we answere First Athaliah was a tyrant and an vsurper and ought not to raigne and therefore was iustly deposed Secondly Iehoiada did it not by his owne power but assembled the Fathers and Princes of the land 2. Chron. 22.2 He shewed them the young King and they made a couenant with him Iehoiada onely gaue directions the King being now knowen vnto them vnto the Captaines and gouernours Thirdly they had the flat word of God for that action The Kings sonne must raigne as the Lord hath saide concerning the sonnes of Dauid ver 3. So when the Pope hath any such warrant from God he may doe as Iehoiada did The Protestants THat the Pope or any other person Ecclesiasticall hath no manner of temporall iurisdiction either directly or indirectly ouer Kings Princes Emperors but ought of right to bee subiect to them and their lawes it is thus proued 1 By the same reason whereby the Iesuite proueth that the Pope directlie hath no temporall iurisdiction we will conclude that neither indirectlie can he haue any and so none at all Christ while he liued vpon earth tooke vpon him no temporall iurisdiction either directly or indirectly he refused to bee a King Iohn 6. Nay hee would not bee a Iudge in ciuill matters as in deuiding the inheritance being thereto required Luke 12.13 Hee payed poll money Matth. 17. hee did submit himselfe to the iudgement of Pilate an heathen Iudge therefore seeing Christe vsed no such temporall iurisdiction neither can any Minister of Christe for the seruant is not aboue the Master Onely Antichrist dare presume beyond the example of Christ. 2 The Fathers of Basile doe vrge that place of Saint Peter 1. Epist. 5.2 against Panormitane who had vnaduisedly sayd that the Pope was Lorde of the Church But the Apostle saith Feede the flocke of Christ not by constraint but willinglie not as Lordes ouer the Lordes inheritance verse 3. But the Pope contrariwise vseth all forceable constraining and tyrannicall meanes killing slaying imprisoning deposing those that will not obey him who calleth himselfe chiefe Lorde and Magistrate of the whole Worlde Surely this is Antichrist and not the Minister of Christ or successor of Saint Peter whose counsaile he refuseth to followe and obey 3 Let but the stories of former times bee searched there wee shall finde how wickedly and insolently the Popes behaued themselues towards Kings and Emperors Pope Alexander caused Henry the second to doe penance for Beckets death and to bee displed of the Monkes Innocent the third caused King Iohn to kisse the feet of the Bishop of Canturburie his own subiect Alexander the third did tread vpon Emperor Frederick his neck Pope Innocent spoyled Frederick the second of his Empire caused him to bee poysoned and his sonne Conradus to be beheaded and these Emperors were deposed by the Popes in order Henricus 4. Henricus 5. Frederick 1. Philippus Otho the 4. Frederick 2. and Conradus his sonne It is not good they say to put a sword into a mad mans hand and thinke you not that these Popes vsed the temporal sword very discreetely which they thus vsurped making fooles and slaues of Emperors as Pope Adriane did that rebuked Frederick the first because he held his stirrup on the wrong side and did excommunicate him for setting his name before the Popes in writing Thâ— very insolent diuellish and Antichristian practise of this their temporal power sheweth from what originall it commeth euen from the father of pride Lastly Augustine saith writing vpon those words Rom. 13. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher powers Si quis putat quia Christanus est non sibi esse vectigal reddendum aut tributum aut non esse exhibendum honorem debitum
eis qui haec curant potestatibus in magno errore est If any man thinke because he is a Christian that he is not bound to pay tribute and taxe and yeelde due honor to the temporall powers for of such Augustine speaketh he is in a great error If all then are subiect to the temporal magistrate that are Christians then all Bishops and Ecclesiastical persons yea the Pope himselfe if he be a Christian. Ergo the Emperor is not subiect to him THE SECOND PART OF THE QVESTION concerning Saint Peters patrimonie whether the Pope may be a temporall Prince The Papists THey say that it is not against the word of God that the Pope should bee error 52 both a temporall and Ecclesiasticall Prince and that both the swordes of spirituall and Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction doe belong vnto him and that hee is the right heire of Saint Peters patrimonie to him belongeth as chiefe Lorde the Imperiall citie of Rome the pallace of Laterane Capua also and Apulia are his distinct 96. Constantin 1 Moses saith the Iesuite was both priest and Prince so was Heli 1. Sam. 4. He iudged Israel fortie yeeres so were also the Macchabees Iudas Ionathan Simon yea Melchisedech long before Moses was Priest and King Ergo the Pope is lawfullie both chiefe Bishop and chiefe Prince also and Lord of that which he now possesseth Bellarmine cap. 9. Ans. Concerning Melchisedech Who knoweth not that hee being King and Priest was a liuelie figure of our Sauior Christs spirituall Kingdome and Priesthoode Heb. 7. And as yet the offices of the spirituall and temporall gouernement were not distinguished for all the Patriarkes Abraham Isaack Iacob the rest were sacrificers therefore wee cannot borrow any examples from them for this matter Moses also did offer sacrifice to God and was chiefe iudge both in spirituall and temporall affaires vnto the people vntill such time as when by Gods commaundement Aaron was chosen to the priesthood vnto whome the charge of sacrifices and vnto his sonnes was committed so Moses remained still Prince of the people whom Iosua succeeded and Aaron was inuested to the priesthoode and so the offices were distinct this example therefore of Moses is extraordinarie and proueth not Concerning the time when Ely iudged Israel which was in the dayes of the iudges we must vnderstand that the gouernement of Israel was very dissolute and men were left to themselues to doe almost what themselues listed as Iud. 17. we reade that Micah set vp an Idoll in his house and the reason is rendered there was no King in Israel but euery man did that which seemed good in his owne eyes Likewise the tribe of Dan offered violence to Micah and robbed him Iud. 18. For there was no King in Israel vers 1. The Leuites wife was most shamefully abused by the Gibeonites for there was no King chap. 19.1 The men of Beniamin tooke them wiues by force for they had no King chap. 21.25 So you see that both religion was corrupted and the maners of the people grew to be outragious and all because there was no perfect distinct gouernement there was no King in Israel In Elie his time the word of God was precious 1. Sam. 3.1 Great was the ignorance of the whole land the licentiousnesse also of his sonnes was a great offence to all Israel and brought a great decay of godlines with it 1. Sam. 2.17.23 Yea they caused the people through their euill example to sinne verse 24. Wherefore Elie his house was iudged of GOD for his remisnes in gouernement in not correcting his sonnes chapter 3.13 And hee that cannot rule his owne house how should hee care for the Church 1. Timoth. 3.5 It cannot now bee proued by the example of Elie that the ciuill gouernement was annexed to the priesthoode by the Lordes appoyntment but it is rather to bee ascribed to the corruption of those times for hauing no King nor Captaine ouer them they were driuen of necessitie to come to the high Priest vnto whome the iudgement of many matters was committed by the lawe of God Deuter. 17.8 Leuit. 13.2 But the priesthood and the ciuill magistracie were two distinct things alwaies from the time of the lawe established It is then no good argument which is drawne from the practise and example of those corrupt times And yet wee say not that these offices were so distinct but that the Lorde might rayse vp some extraordinarie prophet as hee did Samuel who to restore iustice and religion decayed might for a time both iudge the people and offer sacrifice as wee see hee did As for the examples of the Maccabees they moue vs not you must bring better scripture for your purpose the authoritie of those bookes binde vs not and againe we see they did contrarie to the lawe in taking vppon them both offices for the priesthood was annexed to the posteritie of Aaron for euer Numb 3.10 And the scepter was not to depart from Iuda till Christ came Genes 49.10 As the Lorde also had promised to Dauid that the Kingdome should remaine in his seede 2. Chron. 22.3 2 Constantine the great gaue vnto the Pope the chiefe gouernement of the Citie of Rome and other Lordships in Italie yea the soueraigntie ouer the West parts why then is it not lawfull for him to enioy his gift Bellarmine lib. 5. cap. 9. Ans. First the donation of Constantine seemeth to be forged for if Constantine resigned to Siluester the politicall dominion of the west partes how could he then haue distributed his Empire amongst his sonnes as the West part to one the East to the second the middle part to the third Againe the donation saith that Constantine was baptised at Rome by Siluester before the battaile against Maximinus and that then the patrimonie was giuen but it is certaine by stories that he was baptised at Nicomedia by Eusebius Bishop there in the 31. yeere of his raigne wherefore it seemeth to be a forged and deuised thing plur apud Fox pag. 105. 2 Aeneas Siluius saith that Mathilda a noble Dutches in Italie gaue those landes to the Pope which are called S. Peters patrimonie how then can it be true that they were giuen by Constantine Thirdly the popish doctors and Canonists confesse that Constantines grant is not so much to bee counted a donation as a restitution of that which tyrannouslie was taken from him but hee hath his power spirituall and temporall immediatly from Christ you see then that they themselues make no great reckoning of Constantines donation Antoni summa maior 3. part 4 Yet if Constantinus that good Emperor had been so minded to haue bestowed the imperiall dignitie vpon the bishop of Rome there remaineth a great question whether he ought to haue accepted of it or not nay hee should haue refused it for the temporall sword belongeth not to spirituall gouernors At the least it had been a charitable part not to haue suffered the Emperor to disinherite his
dayes and three dayes and an halfe should signifie the same time Secondly with much better sense are these times applied by our learned and painfull countreyman Master Fox to the great persecution vnder the Emperours which continued 294. yeeres which time is mystically signified by 42. moneths taking euery moneth for a sabboth of yeeres And the rest of the numbers agree hereunto for 1260. dayes make three yeeres and an halfe that is moneths 42 and three daies and an halfe make houres 42. So taking euery houre in the dayes and euery moneth in the yeeres for a sabboth of yeeres there ariseth 294. yeeres which was the iust time of the persecution from the death of Iohn Baptist vnto the end of Licinius the tyrant persecutor This account I say better agreeth with the truth of historie then their imagined computation Thirdly if it should be taken as they expound it for so short a time then very little of the prophecie in the Apocalyps is yet fulfilled which we doubt not but is most accomplished as it may appeare in comparing the visions reuealed in that booke together And agayne there is no prophecie beside this of 42. moneths which can bee applyed to the great persecution in the Primitiue Church wherefore it is not like that the Lord would leaue his Church without some comfort in forewarning them of those great troubles which immediatly ensued But if these prophecies which are wrested by the Papists did noâ— foretell of those persecutions then are they vtterly forgotten in that booke which is not like it being the greatest triall that euer the Church had 4 We say then that wee are not curiouslie to search into times and seasons which the Lord hath not reuealed Onely this wee learne that the time of affliction being set downe by dayes and monethes the faithfull should hereby bee comforted knowing that the time of their trouble is limitted of God and is but short in respect of the kingdome of Christ. 2 The Lord sayth Math. 24. that those daies shall be shortned lest no flesh should be saued But how can the time bee short if it should last some hundreds or a thousand of yeeres Bellarmin cap. 8. Rhemist annot Matth. 24. sect 6. Answere First that place vers 22. is properly vnderstood of the calamitie of the Iewes which if it had continued any longer the nation of the Iewes had bin vtterly destroyed Secondly yet notwithstanding the raigne of Antichrist is short in respect of the eternall kingdome of Christ yea the whole time from his ascension vntill his comming agayne is counted but short Apocal. 22.20 I come quickly and S. Peter sayth That a thousand yeeres before God is as one day and one day as a thousand yeeres 2. Pet. 3. 3 Christ preached but three yeeres and an halfe therefore Antichrist shal be suffered to preach no longer Answere First yet Christ was thirtie yeeres old when he began to preach and shewed himselfe before though not so openly as when he was twelue yeere old he disputed with the Doctors in the temple he was also acknowledged for the Messiah in his natiuitie If Antichrist then must in this respect be correspondent to Christ he must also be knowne to be thirtie yeeres vpon earth before he be fully manifested Secondly though Christ himselfe preached no longer yet he sent his Apostles who preached many yeeres after we doe not therefore oppose the person of Antichrist whom we denye to be a singular man to Christ but the kingdome of the one to the other Now by their owne reason it followeth that because the kingdome of Christ endured many yeeres and yet doth that therefore Antichrists kingdome must likewise Other demonstrations the Iesuite hath to prooue that Antichrist is not yet come as because the Gospell is not yet preached to all the world cap. 4. Bellar. Helias and Henoch are not yet come who are certainly looked for cap. 6. There shall bee a most grieuous and terrible persecution vnder Antichrist which is not yet past cap. 7. But these arguments shall bee answered in another place towards the end of this worke when we come to speake of the appearing of Christ to iudgement The Protestants THat Antichrist shall raigne but three yeeres and an halfe we take it for a meere fable and a very popish dreame whereas on the contrarie side wee are able to shewe both that Antichrist is alreadie come and hath tyrannized in the world these many yeeres 1 We will make it plaine by demonstration that Antichrist hath been in the world many yeeres agoe by the propheticall places of scripture First it is sayd the number of Antichrist is 666. Apocal. 13.18 So anno 606. or thereabout Boniface the 3. obtayned of Phocas the Emperour to be called vniuersall Bishop Thus sayth Illyricus Chytraeus Also beginning at the yeere of the Lord 97. at which time Iohn wrote the Apocalyps and counting 666. yeeres we shal come to the time of Pipinus whom the Pope made King of France and he agayne much enlarged the iurisdiction and authoritie of the Pope And yet more euidently about the yeere of the Lord 666. the Latine seruice was commanded to be vsed in all countreys subiect to the See of Rome by Pope Vitalianus and about the same time Constantius the Emperour remoued the ancient monuments of the Empire to Constantinople and left the citie to the Popes pleasure Fulk annot in 13. Reuel sect 10. Another prophecie we haue Reuel 20.3 that after one 1000. yeeres Sathan must be let loose Euen so a thousand yeeres after Christ Pope Siluester a great coniurer hauing made a compact with the Diuell obtayned the Papacie and not long after him came in Gregorie the 7. a great Sorcerer also and Necromancer sic Lutherus But because it is not to be thought that Sathan was bound during that great and long persecution vnder the Romane Emperours wee must begin the account of the 1000. yeeres from the end of the persecution which continued 294. yeeres vnto that adde a thousand so haue we the yeere of our Lord 1294. About which yeere Boniface the 8. made the sixt booke of the Decretals confirmed the orders of Friers and gaue them great freedomes with this number agreeth Daniel his 1290. dayes Dan. 12 1â— Also somewhat before this time anno 1260. the orders of Dominicke and Franciscane Friers began first to be set vp by Honorius the 3. and Gregorie the 9. and so haue we the 1260. daies which are set downe Apocal. 12. plura apud Fox pag. 398. 2 If Antichrist should raigne but three yeeres and an halfe as our aduersaries teach and then immediatly that time being expired the world should end then it is possible to assigne the time of our Lord Christ his comming to iudgement so soone as Antichrist is reuealed But the Gospell sayth that of that day and houre knoweth no man no not the Angels in heauen Math. 24.36 yet these good fellowes take vpon them to be wiser then the
but now they doe light them at noone day 3 These offices haue not been in vse these many yeares among the papists themselues for many times the Sexton or his boy doe execute the charge both of Acolites Ostiaries and Readers yea of Deacons and Subdeacons also when the Priest with his boy can dispatch a Masse Neither are these orders retayned amongst them for any especiall seruice or office but onely as praeparatories and steps and degrees to the priesthood Fulk annot 1. Timoth. 3. sect 7. THE SECOND PART OF THE DIFFErence of Bishops and other Ministers The Papists WE differ from them in two poynts First they say that Bishops are not onely in a higher degree of superioritie to other Ministers but they are as Princes of the Clergie and other Ministers as subiects and in all things to bee commaunded by them Secondly they affirme that Bishops are onely properly Pastors and that to them onely it doth appertaine to preach and that other Ministers haue no authoritie without their license or consent to preach at all and that not principally or chiefely but solie and wholie to them appertayneth the right of consecrating and giuing orders For the first for the princely authoritie of Bishops whom they would haue obeyed in all things they wrast these and such like places of scripture as 2. Cor. 1.9 I write vnto you to know whether you will be obedient in all things Ergo they must be absolutely obeyed Answere the Apostle challengeth only obedience in such things as he should commaund agreeable to Gods word for if I my selfe sayth he preach another Gospell holde me accursed Galat. 1. Fulk annot 1. Cor. 2. sect 3. 2 Against an Elder receiue no accusation vnder two or three witnesses 1. Tim. 5.19 Ergo the authority of Bishops is absolute and princelike Videmus Episcopum iudicem esse presbyterorum proinde verum principem wee see the Bishop is the iudge of the Elders Ergo a prince ouer them Bellarm cap. 14. Answere First it followeth not Bishops haue iurisdiction and authoritie ouer other Ministers Ergo they are princes ouer them Can there be no preeminence and superioritie in the Church but it must needes be princelike Is euery iudge a prince ouer those which are brought before him to be iudged 2. Timothie had no such princelike authority for here it is restrained limited a rule is set down by the Apostle which he must obserue Ergo his authoritie was not absolute Thirdly Saint Paul was so farre off from making Timothie a prince in the Church at Ephesus that he would rather haue him not to rebuke but to exhort the Elders as fathers the younger men as brethren cap. 5.1 Where now is his princely authoritie become whereas he maketh his subiects as our aduersaries call inferior Ministers his fathers and brethren For the second the Apostles properly had the preaching of the word committed vnto them Act. 6. For other were chosen to attend vpon tables the Apostles also onelie had the right of laying on of hands Act. 14.23 Ergo It is proper onely to Bishops to preach and to ordayne who are the Apostles successors Bellarmin Answere First Bellarmine denieth that Bishops doe properly succeed the Apostles de pontifice lib. 4.25 because he would magnifie the Pope his ghostly father aboue all Bishops but now forgetting himselfe hee sayth Episcopi propriè succedunt Apostolis Bishops doe properly succeede the Apostles cap. 14. so by this reason euery Bishop hath as ful authoritie as the Pope Secondly euery godly faithful Bishop is a successor to the Apostles we denie it not so are all faithfull and godly pastors Ministers for Christ prayeth for them all indifferently hauing first praied for his Apostles Iohn 17.20 I pray not for these alone sayth our Sauiour but for al them which shal beleeue in me through their word Thirdly at that time when the Deacons were elected the congregation was at Ierusalem neither were there as yet any other Pastors ordained therefore the Apostles only attēded vpon preaching of the word but afterward when they had ordayned Pastors in other Churches to them also fully was committed the word of reconciliation Ephes. 4.11 Christ hath giuen some to be Apostles some Prophets some Pastors and teachers So that Pastors teachers though ordained first by the Apostles yet had their calling of God and together in their calling authoritie and commission to preach neither being once ordayned needed they to expect anie further license from the Apostles And as for the right of ordayning and imposition of handes though it were chiefly in the Apostles yet the Pastors and Elders together with them layde on their handes Act. 13.4 Yea the Rhemists confesse as much that when a Priest is to be ordered the rest of the Priests together with the Bishop doe lay on their hands Annotat. 1. Timoth. 4.18 What doth this else signifie but that they haue some interest in ordayning together with the Bishop The law also must be changed Heb. 7.12 that is the manner and forme of the priesthood But we easily see your drift you would gladly haue vs like of this argument that in stead of a high Priest in the law you might bring a Pope into the Church The Protestantes FIrst though we doe admitte that for auoyding of schisme the Church hath thought it meete there should be difference in degree and a superioritie among Ministers yet your princely dominion which you doe vrge in no wise must be admitted 1 It is contrary to the rule of Christ. Luk. 22.25 the Kings of the nations are Lords ouer them and they that haue authoritie ouer them are called benefactors Here our Sauiour speaketh not of tyrannical dominion for how could tyrants be benefactors but forbiddeth that there should be any such princelike and pompous preeminence among ecclesiasticall persons as there is among secular and ciuill gouernours A superioritie may be graunted but not as the Prince is ouer his subiects it was so in time of popery that the people were halfe subiects to the Prince and halfe subiects to their spirituall gouernours But though we acknowledge other ecclesiasticall fathers and pastors yet we are subiects onely to our prince 2 Saint Peter also is flat against this princely rule and dominion Feede the flock sayth he not as Lords ouer Gods heritage but that you may bee ensamples 1. Pet. 5.3 But are not they I pray you Lords ouer the flock that challenge to be princes Secondly concerning the power of preaching we affirme that euery pastor once ordayned hath sufficient authoritie to preach in his owne flocke and charge as Iohn Husse notably prooued to their face out of a certayne glose in the fift booke of the decretals that when as the Bishop ordayneth anie Priest he giueth him also therewithall authoritie to preach Wee denie not but when there is iust occasion this authoritie maybe restrayned by the Church gouernours and so also may an euill Minister be suspended
yet is it not best for euery man to be rich God seeth it good that some men should be poore So single life is the best for those that haue the gift of chastitie that can with a quiet conscience liue single otherwise matrimonie were much better for Saint Paul that wisheth that euery one would liue single as hee did yet afterward sayth It is better to marrie then to burne So that by the Apostles iudgement to marrie is best for him that hath not the gift of continencie Iewel pag. 232. defens Apolog. The Protestants THat it is not onely lawfull but conuenient that all men both Ministers and others that haue not receiued a proper gift of continencie should marrie and that it is agreeable and consonant to the word of God thus wee shew it 1 The scriptures are most playne for the mariage of Ministers 1. Timoth. 3.2 Saynt Paul sayth a Bishop and generally euery Minister may be the husband of one wife and verse 11. their wiues are described howe they ought to behaue themselues Let their wiues be honest Ergo it is lawfull for them to bee maried Bellarmine answereth that Saynt Paul speaketh of the wiues which they had before their calling and ordayning not those which they should marry after But there appeareth no such thing out of the text Nay Saint Paul say wee had libertie as well as others to leade about a sister a wife euen after hee was an Apostle 1. Corinth 9. Wherefore it is as lawfull afterward as afore Bellarmine answereth We must thus read a Sister a woman and it is like they were women that did minister vnto the Apostles and followed them We replie First the word Sister doth implie a woman and therefore it had been an improper and needlesse speech to say a sister a woman therefore we must rather read a sister a wife Secondly if they were other women which ministred of their substance what neede the Apostles to be mayntained of the Churches if they ministred but in their seruice and attendance who were more fit to doe it and to follow them from place to place then their wiues Thirdly the phrase of leading about a sister importeth a superioritie and authority such as the husband hath ouer his wife Another place we haue Hebr. 13.3 Mariage is honourable among all men Ergo amongst Ministers Bellarmin If it were meant of all mariages then to marrie within the degrees of consanguinitie were also honourable Answere This is a very childish cauill First hee might haue read further And the bedde vndefiled Saint Paul therefore speaketh of lawfull mariage and indeede the other ioyning and coupling of men and women together contrarie to GODS lawe is not to bee counted Matrimonie or Wedlocke but Incest rather and Fornication as the brother to marrie his brothers wife and such like Secondly Saint Paul sayth not all mariages are honourable but mariage is honourable for all men the generalitie is not of the thing but the persons Wherefore we doe fittly conclude out of this place that marriage is lawful and commendable euen among ministers argum Caluin Further Saint Paul saith For auoyding of fornication let euery man haue his owne wife 1. Corinth 7.2 Here is no restraint for Ministers Bellarm. this is to be vnderstoode of those that haue not made a vow of continency Answer First our Sauiour Christ commaundeth no such vowes it is a cruell Antichristian yoke laide vpon Ministers to binde them when they receiue orders to vowe single life therefore your Antichristian decree ought not to abridge the generall libertie granted by the Apostle Secondly the end of marriage is generall to auoyde fornication and therefore the remedie also is generall for euerie man hauing not a proper gift of continencie may be in danger of that inconuenience if he be denyed the ordinarie helpe Melancthon Againe 1. Timoth. 4. to forbid marriage is called a doctrine of diuels but the Popish Church forbiddeth marriage Bellarm. Wee doe not forbid marriage to any but we require single life of all that are entred into orders which it is at their owne choyce to receiue or to refuse Ans. First it is necessarie that some should receiue orders and be consecrate to the Church ministerie wherefore requiring this condition of all such to liue single though particularly you prohibite not this man or that to marrie yet generally you prohibite the whole calling which is worse Secondly if you say you doe not forbid marriage simplie to all no more did the Manichees for they suffered their scholars and auditors to marrie And Saint Augustines words are generall Ille prohibet matrimonium qui illud malum esse dicit he forbiddeth marriage that thinketh it is euil you therefore forbidding marriage must needs hold opinion that is wicked and euill 2 This restraint of the marriage of Ministers hath not been of ancient time in the Church but imposed vpon the Church of late 1000. yeere after Christ Polycrates Bishop of Ephesus anno 180. had seuen of his progenitors before him Bishops of the same See In the Nicene Councel Paphnutius stoode vp and stayed the decree that should haue past for restraining of the marriage of Ministers and it is saide Synodus landauit sententiam Paphnutij The Synod commended Paphnutius sentence Sozomen lib. 1. cap. 11. Gregorie the father of Gregorie was Bishop of Nazianzum The Greeke Church neuer yet receiued this popish decree of single life and their Bishops are married at this day Bellarmine saith that the Church of Rome hath dispenced with them cap. 18. Ergo if the Pope would dispence with the Latine Church it might be lawfull enough then for Ministers to marrie wherefore it is but a humane constitution Againe it is false that they haue dispenced with the Greeke Church they care not for their dispensations but vse their owne Christian libertie neither was the Greeke Church euer subiect to the Bishop of Rome Thus we see that in times past marriage was lawfull for all men vntill Pope Nicholas the second Alexander the second and Gregorie the seuenth that notable sorcerer and adulterer for these three comming together one not long after another began by publike decree to restraine Priests marriage not long after them Anselme began to play the Rex here in England anno 1104. who stoutely proceeded in his vngodly purpose and enacted that married Priests should either leaue their wiues or their benefices At which time 200. Priests at once came barefoote to the Kings palace to make complaint And for all Anselmes Popelike and outragious proceedings against married Priests yet they continued married well nie two hundred yeeres after Anselmes time doe what he could and thus it is manifest that the restraint of Ministers marriage is no ancient thing but then began most to be vrged when Antichrist fullie was reuealed to the world when as the orders of Friers came in and were confirmed and priuiledged vnder Boniface 8. about anno 1300. 3 What
is earned and deserued it is no almes The Protestants FIrst we say that no idle persons ought to be maintained in a Christian commonwealth but they that haue not any other necessary calling should labour with their hands and therefore Monkes that are fit for no other seruice in the Church ought to labour and worke 1 Saint Paul giueth a general rule He that will not worke let him not eate 2. Thessal 3.10 speaking of those that haue no necessarie calling in the Church Ergo Monkes must worke or els by S. Paules rule not eate The Rhemists answere that this is but a naturall admonition or counsel Nay it is a precept and commandement that all in their seuerall places and callings should labour none liue idlely for S. Paul saith not this I counselled you but this I warned you of or denounced vnto you and he calleth those that followed not this rule inordinate walkers 2 Againe if you will needes haue Monks let them be as they were in times past for then they were lay men and laboured with their hands till anno 606. when Boniface made a decree that Monkes might vse the office of preaching and Christening but before that Monks were forbidden by the generall Councel of Chalcedon not to entermeddle with matters Ecclesiasticall Fox pag. 154. But perhaps they will say as they doe that some of them work as their Nunnes And I pray you why not their Monkes too I thinke their great bellies hinder them Neither are their Monkes altogether idle for some of them in painting caruing grauing and garnishing their Idols are very cunning But according to the saying they might better be idle then ill occupied and as good neuer a whit as neuer the better 3. Neither is it to be permitted that Friers should get their liuing by begging for what are they els but valiant beggers First there ought to be no beggers in the common-wealth as Deuteron 15. Though the Lord say that they should neuer be without poore or beggers which should want their helpe vers 11. Yet vers 5. this charge is giuen that by them that is their default there should not be a begger in Israel they should so prouide for the poore that they neede not go a begging There are also positiue lawes to restraine the number of beggers and therefore there is no reason that by a number of idle vagrant persons belli-god Friers that begging order should be enlarged Secondly but seeing it can not bee chosen but there must needes be some beggers they ought not to bee young sturdie lubbers that are able to worke as most of the Friers were but such as are described Luk. 14.21 where the King saith to his seruants Goe out quickly and bring hither the poore the maimed the halt the blinde Ergo such lusty fellowes ought to liue by the sweate of their browes not to eate vp the bread of the poore Lastly in the sermons Ad fratres in eremo which are ascribed to Augustine thus we reade Eia fratres mei semper boni aliquid facite quem tadet orare vel psallere non desistat quem taedet orare vel psallere manibus laborare non desistat My brethren alwaies bee ye doing of some good if you bee wearie of praying sing if of singing then labour with your hands And in the same place old men onely of 80. yeere old are exempted from working And in another place Augustine sheweth that the Monkes in his time did so plye their worke Vsque adeo vt etiam naues oneratas in ea loca mittant qua inopes incolunt that they sent shippes laden with necessaries vnto those places where the poore inhabited De morib eccles cap. 32. Ergo in Augustines time Monkes liued not by begging but with labour of their hands Thus by Gods goodnes we haue finished this question and this whole Controuersie One other question remaineth whether the Monasticall life be meritorious or not which we haue referred to another place when we shall come to the question of Virginitie in generall and the priuiledges thereof THE SEVENTH GENERALL CONTROVERSIE CONCERNING THE CIVIL MAGISTRATE MAny things which Bellarmine in this controuersie laboureth to proue are agreed vpon betweene vs and our aduersaries and therefore we will spend no time in them 1 We teach as well as they that there ought to bee Magistrates Princes and gouernours amongst Christians contrarie to that which the Anabaptists hold that there ought to bee equalitie among Christians The holy Ghost Iudg. 17.6 19.1 maketh this the cause of al disorder At that time in Israel there was no King amongst them but euery man did that which seemed good in his owne eyes 2 We doe hold that euen wicked Kings and Tyrants haue power ouer the goods and liues of men neither that it is lawfull to disobey them but in matters onely belonging to our conscience where it is better to obey God then men Ieremy 27.6 I haue giuen saith the Lord all these lands to Nabuchadnezzar 3 Concerning the power of Princes we grant that they may make lawes and ordinances to gouerne the people by Prou. 8.15 that they may punish the offenders of their lawes Rom. 13. They doe not beare the sword for nought That it is lawful for Christian Princes vpon iust occasion to wage battaile Luk. 3.14 Iohn Baptist doth not condemne the calling of Souldiers but teacheth them to vse it aright These things then being agreed vpon on both sides the seuerall questions wherein we differ from them and they from the truth are these 1 Concerning the authoritie of the Prince in Ecclesiasticall matters three parts of the question First whether he haue power ouer persons Ecclesiasticall Secondly whether ouer their goods Thirdly whether in Ecclesiasticall causes 2 Whether the ciuill Magistrate may prosecute heretikes to death and whether he ought to be the Iudge of heretikes with other like questions 3 Whether the positiue and ciuill lawes of Princes doe binde their subiects and oblige them simply in conscience This matter we haue discussed before Controuer 4. quaest 7. part 1. 4 Whether the Pope ought or may excommunicate the Prince or Emperour or otherwise hath any temporall iurisdiction aboue him this question also is handled before Controu 4. quaest 8. part 1. THE FIRST QVESTION CONCERNING THE AVthoritie of the Prince in Ecclesiasticall matters THis question hath three parts First whether he haue power ouer the persons Ecclesiasticall Secondly whether ouer their goods Thirdly whether the Prince be chiefe in causes Ecclesiasticall THE FIRST PART CONCERNING THE AVTHOritie of the ciuill Magistrate ouer Ecclesiasticall persons The Papists THe Clergie is not bound to keepe and obserue the ciuill and positiue lawes error 98 of Princes if they be contrarie to the Canons of the Church neither ought they for any cause to bee cited before the ciuill Magistrate or to be iudged by him Bellarm. de Clericis cap. 28. It is absurd saith the Iesuite that the sheepe should iudge the
notwithstanding for popish inuocation of Angels for the Angel here coÌ„mendeth not the prayers of the Saints by his merit but by the much incense giuen vnto him to ad to the prayers of the Saints to make them acceptable which is the sweete smell and sauour of the precious dâ—ath and merites of Christ. Fulk in hunc locum Augustine indeede sometime ascribeth such an office vnto the Angelles to carry vp our prayers to Heauen as their charge is to carry vp our soules not as mediatours or intercessors but as the Lords messengers and agents here vpon earth to reporte vnto him our affaires dicuntur Angeli preces nostras vota Deo offerre non vt deum doceant qui omnia antequam fiant nouit sed vt super his dei voluntatem consulant The Angelles are said to offer vp our prayers and vowes vnto God not to informe or instruct the Lord but onely to consult and know his pleasure tom 9. de dilection Cap. 3. in Psalm 74. for the Angels haue two offices the one to execute the commaundement of God in the world and to attend vpon him to receiue their charge Math. 18.10 the other to returne vnto God as faithfull messengers the successe of their busines in the worlde Zechar. 1.10 Now whether the Angelles be appointed of God to report vnto him our sayings and doings as other affaires of our life the scripture no where euidently sheweth Neither if it were graunted would it any thing helpe their popish inuocation of Angelles Rhemist alleadge Tob. 12.12 to proue the offering of our prayers by Angelles Answer It is neither canonicall Scripture nor agreeable vnto it Fulk annot Coloss. 2. sect 3. The Protestants THe scripture alwayes maketh Christ our onely Mediator neither Angelles nor Saints by whome our prayers and all other spirituall sacrifices are offered vnto God Fulk ibid. 1 Hebrew 13.15 Let vs by him offer the sacrifice of praise alwayes to God 1. Peter 2.5 You are an holy priesthoode to offer vp spirituall sacrifices acceptable to God by Iesus Christ. Ergo Christ Iesus is our onely Mediator Secondly Galatian 3.19 The Lawe was ordayned by Angelles in the hand of a Mediator Ergo the Angelles are one office and the Mediator another Augustine sayeth Quòd non aliquem ex Angelis dicit Mediatorem sed ipsum Dominum nostrum Iesum Christum habes alio loco vnus inquit Deus vnus mediator Dei hominum homo Christus Iesus That the Apostle calleth not any of the Angels but only Iesus Christ our Lord Mediator we haue in another place There is one God saith he and one Mediator of God and man the Man Iesus Christ. AN APPENDIX OR THIRD PART of this question whether Angelles or Saints know our heartes The Papists THe Angelles and other Celestiall spirites doe knowe our heartes and inwarde repentance And betweene the Angelles and the blessed soules of Saintes there is no difference in this case the one being as highly exalted and neere God as the other in whome and by whome only they see and know our affaires Luke 15.10 There is ioy in heauen in the presence of the Angelles ouer one sinner that repenteth Ergo they know our repentaunce Rhemist Lu. 15. Sect. 2. Ans. 1 Our heartes and inward repentance are not knowen to the Angelles but by the fruites and true effectes thereof 2 Although the elect after the resurrection shal be like in glorie to the Angelles yet it followeth not that they shall be like in all thinges much lesse that their soules now in heauen be in all thinges like vnto the Angelles whose presence and Ministerie God vseth in the preseruation of his chosen 3 That all thinges done in the worlde may be seene in God as in a glasse is but a prophane speculation and the deuise of an ydle braine Fulk ibid. Argum. 2 Abraham had knowledge of things in earth which were not in his time as that they had Moyses and the Prophetes bookes which hee neuer sawe Luk. 16. ver 29. Rhemist Answere First In this narration many thinges are spoken parabolically out of the which we must not ground any doctrine not taught els where in scripture for you may aswell say that soules haue fingers and tounges and that elementall water wil quench hell fire as that Abraham knew what books were written after his death Secondly Albeit that the doctrine of the Church comprehended in the scriptures might be reuealed to Abraham after his death yet it followeth not that he knew all thinges as you affirme the saintes doe by beholding the Maiestie of God Fulk annot ibid. The saintes therefore in heauen knowe so much as the Lord thinketh good to reueale vnto them they knowe not all things The Protestants WE deny not but that as Prophetes and holy men in this life may knowe many secret thinges reuealed vnto them by the spirit of God as Peter found out the secret fraude of Ananias Sapphirae Eliseus being absent found out Gehezi his corruption yea hee could tell what was doone in the King of Syria his chamber so the Lord may reueale vnto the saintes in heauen at his pleasure some thinges done vpon earth But that they receiued any such gift of God to know all thinges done vpon earth it is a great vntrueth and cleane contrary to the scriptures 1. Salomon sayeth in his prayer vnto God Heare thou in heauen in thy dwelling place and giue vnto euery man according to his wayes as thou knowest his heart for thou onely knowest the hearts of all the children of men 1. King 8.39 Out of this place we thus reason he only knoweth the heart that is the Iudge of all men and a rewarder of them according to their wayes But the Lord onely is iudge Ergo. Againe the wordes themselues be plaine that God onely knoweth the heart so that what knowledge of secrets the Saintes haue it is by reuelation not by searching the heart Againe S. Paul saith No man knoweth the thinges of man saue the spirit of man which is in him so the thinges of God knoweth no man but the spirite of God 1. Corinth 1.11 the Rhemist aunswer that no man knoweth the secrets of the heart naturally but by extraordinary gift he may as the Prophets did Ans. No man euer had or can haue a generall gift to know the heart but when God seeth it good to reueale it for otherwise the comparison holdeth not The spirit of God onely knoweth the things of God which also is giuen to men to know but not by receiuing any gift to search and looke into the nature and heart as it were of God for then should they knowe all the secrets of God which neuer any did but onely by reuelation of the spirite which openeth Gods secrets vnto them so farre as it is conuenient and needfull Euen after the same manner the spirite of God may reueale the secrets of the heart of man not by giuing them a generall gift
one for another is commaunded and requyred of God as the other is not Wherefore to run vnto saints and not vnto Christ is to doubt either of his readines or ability to helpe vs. 3 Iohn 16.26 Christ saith that after he hath by his mediation and intercession brought vs into the fauour of God In that day shall you aske the Father in my name and I say not that I will pray to the Father for you for the Father himselfe loueth you If then the prayer of Christ to God his Father shall not then be needfull what vse is there of the prayer of other creatures Fulk 1. Tim. 2. sect 4. Augustine saith Pro quo nullus interpellat ipse pro omnib hic vnus verusque Mediator est lib. 2. cont Parmenian cap. 8. He for whome no man prayeth but him selfe entreateth for all men he is the onely true Mediator Ergo saintes no mediators and therefore not to be prayed vnto THE SECOND PART WHETHER THE Saints departed do pray for vs. The Papists error 29 THat the saints in heauen do not onely pray in general but particularly for vs ready in all our needs by their prayer and mediation to assist vs thus they would proue it Argum. 1. 2. Pet. 1.15 I wil endeuour saith the Apostle that you may haue remembrance of these thinges after my departure Peter promiseth to be careful of them and to pray for them after his departure Rhemist ibid. Bellarm. cap. 18. Ans. This which here the Apostle promiseth he performeth in writing this Epistle whereby they might be put in remembrance when hee was gone And therefore he saith ver 13. I think it meete so long as I am in this Tabernacle to stir you vp by putting you in remembrance he acknowledgeth now only to be the time wherein he may do them good and therefore deferreth it not There is no sillable which soundeth that way that he would pray for them after his dissolution Argum. 2 Apocal. 5.8 The 24. Elders are said to haue golden vialles ful of odors which are the prayers of the saints Rhemist in hunc locum Ergo the Saints in heauen do pray for vs. Ans. The 24 Elders do represent the Church Militant vpon earth whose conuersation is in heauen and they do continually offer vp their prayers And that the place is so to be vnderstoode it appeareth verse 10. Thou hast made vs Kinges and priests and we shall raigne vpon the earth that is their kingdome is spirituall in fighting against and ouercomming the concupiscence of the flesh and all carnall desires The Protestants THat the blessed Saintes doe sing vnto the praise of God in heauen and doe magnifie the Lord and praise him with a new song of thankesgiuing which is a kinde of prayer we deny not Apocal. 5.9 and that they haue a general desire and longing both for vs for themselues and all the elect of God that the day of our refreshing were come and that all the people of God were ioyned in one and their enemies vanquished and destroyed we learne also out of the scripture Apocal. 6.9 But that they should offer vp our speciall prayers make particular request for vs to God it no where in the scripture is found but rather the contrary Argum. 1. The scripture no where testifieth that the Saints in such manner do pray for vs Ergo we may safely be ignorant of it nay it were great presumption without scripture to beleeue it Argum. 2 The Saints departed know not our wants nor what is done in the earth The liuing know that they shall die but the dead knowe nothing at all Eccles. 9.5 But of this more shall be said in the next part See Augustine of this matter contro 8. quaest 2. part 3. THE THIRD PART WHETHER THE Saints vnderstand our prayers and be alwaies at hand to helpe vs. The Papists THey affirme 3. things which they are driuē to graunt by necessity of Argument while they stifly mantaine inuocation of Saints For first they graunt error 30 that they know our hearts and our inward repentaunce and secret thoughtes for otherwise it would not auaile to pray vnto them yet not of themselues but by the reuelation of God Bellarm. cap. 20. Ans. We deny not but that God may reueale vnto them some things at his pleasure but heereof it followeth not that they know all our affaires and heare all our prayers Againe what a preposterous order is this and superfluous God first reuealeth vnto them our prayers and then they solicite God in our behalfe I praye you what neede this seeing God knoweth our prayers First why is he not as ready of himselfe to graunt our requestes as to staye till he be entreated Secondly seeing it were in vaine to pray to Saints if they had not power to help vs they also are vrged to confesse that the saints are patrones of men and haue the gouernment of the worlde committed to them yea that they may receiue others into the kingdome of heauen Argum. 1. Apocal. 2.26 To him that ouercommeth wil I giue power ouer nations and he shall rule ouer them with a rod of Iron Ergo the saints haue the gouernment of men committed vnto them Rhemist ibid. Bellarm. cap. 18. Ans. The power which our Sauiour heere promiseth is the participation of his kingly inheritance first spiritually to ouercome the world by faith in this life and after this life they shall be set in ful possession of his royall inheritance The Rod of Iron is the worde of God which is also called a two edged sword whereby they execute vengeance vpon the heathen Psal. 149.7 It is the sword of the spirite whereby the wicked shall be destroyed Augustin expoundeth it to be the rod of Iustice whereby the good are corrected and the wicked broken in peeces Homil. 2. in Apocal. Argum. 2 Luke 16.9 Make you friends of the vnrighteous Mammon that when they need they may receiue you into euerlasting habitations see the saints may receiue their friends and benefactours into their eternal mansions Rhemist ibid. Ans. 1 Almes bestowed vpon the poore do procure their prayers but not their patronage 2 The wordes are thus parabolically to bee vnderstoode They shall receiue you that is shall giue testimony of you and your almes shall be a testimony of your charity and proceeding from a liuely faith shall euerlastingly be rewarded 3 That it is not meant of the persons but of the worke it is plaine because almes which issue from a true faith shall be rewarded at the Lords hand though bestowed vpon an hypocrite Fulk ibid. Thirdly They also hold that the saints at their pleasure can be present with their bodies and be amongst vs and so heare our praiers Bellarm. cap. 20. Argum. 1 Otherwise the saints should be fettered as it were in heauen if they remaine and be kept all in one place Ans. They are not fettered when they are limited by the Lord to a place see also what
worshipped their images as Gods But so doe not they they make no account of them as they affirme for their matter or forme but for that relation they haue to the things whose images they are Rhemist Philipp 2. sect 2. Ans. First the Iewes also in their golden Calfe had a relation to that God that brought them out of the land of Egypt Exod. 32.4.5 The like relation had Ieroboam in setting vp of his Calues 1. King 12.28 for they were not so mad as to thinke that a Calfe brought them out of Egypt And it appeareth yet more plainly for Exod. 32.5 Aaron sayth To morowe shall be the Lords holy day the word is Iehouah which name the Iewes only ascribed vnto God So Iudg. 17.3 Micah his mother sayth that she had consecrated the shekles of siluer to the Lord Iehouah to make a molten Image wherefore in their Images they had relation to God and yet were they reproued for their idolatrie The like relation the Gentiles also had in their Idols as Augustine witnesseth Non ego illum lapidem colo c. adoro quem video sed seruio ei quem non video Quis est ille Numen quoddam inuisibile quod praesidet illi simulachro I doe not worship that carued stone or Image I reuerence that I see but I serue or worship that I see not that is a certaine diuine spirit which is president in that image Wherefore popish idolatrie can no more be excused by this shift of reference or relation then either the Iewes or Gentiles that pretended the same colour 2 It may be proued by the practise of the popish Church in England that simply without any such relation or signification they commanded Images to be worshipped Thomas Man Martyr troubled because he beleeued not in the Crucifixe Robert Raue of Dorney molested because he sayd that an Image grauen with mans hand is neither God nor our Ladie but made for a remembrance of Saints nor wee ought to worship any thing but God and our Ladie and not images of Saints which are but stockes and stones Mistresse Alice Dolie brought into trouble for saying We should not worship that thing that hath eares and eyes and can neither see nor heare These good men and women we see were persecuted in those daies for denying worship to Images as they were Images So then the popish doctrine was as it appeareth that Images were simply to be worshipped Argum. 2. Apocalyps 9.20 Worshippers of Idols of siluer and gold are there condemned which can be no other but the Papists for that prophecie is to be fulfilled in the latter times towards the end of the world after the opening of the seuenth seale and blowing of the sixt trumpet But there is no knowne nation in the world nor hath not been many a day that worshippe Images but the popish Synagogue Argum. 3. Man is the image of God and yet is not worshipped how much lesse ought we to worship carued images which are but made with mens hāds As Augustine saith Opera hominum non colenda meliores sunt artifices The handie workes of men are not to be worshipped the workmen themselues are better and yet not worshipped What foule idolatrie is this to preferre the workes of mens hands before the worke and image of God to despise men and haue in so great regard dead stockes and stones Argum. 4. Augustine sayth Noui multos esse sepulchrorum picturarum adoratores I know there are many which worship sepulchres and pictures Of these he warneth men to take heed Noli consectari turbas imperitorum Followe not such vnlearned and vnskilful multitudes Bellarmine answereth that Augustine wrote thus when he was a young man and not fully conuerted cap. 16. A sillie shift yet we will vouchsafe an answere though it be worthie of none Let vs heare what Augustine thought when he was old and stayed in iudgement Iam verò artifex melior est eis quem te tamen puderet adorare melior tu quamuis ea non feceris quoniam quae illa non possunt facis melior bestia The workman is better then the image who gaue fashion and shape vnto it yet thou wouldest be ashamed to worship him thou thy selfe art better for thou canst doe many things which that cannot nay a bruite beast that heareth and seeth is better By this we may see what Augustine thought of worshipping of Images THE FOVRTH ARTICLE WHAT MANNER OF worship is to be giuen to Images The Papists BEllarmine who is the mouth of the rest setteth downe these two positions First that Images though they are not properly to be worshipped with diuine error 41 honour neither is it safe so to teach in the hearing of the people yet improperly they may haue the same worship which properly belongeth to the Saint whose image it is Secondly there is a religious worship properly due vnto images as they are considered in themselues non solum vt vicem gerunt exemplaris and not onely as they represent another thing Bellarm. de imaginib sanctor lib. 2. cap. 21.23 The Protestants WE haue shewed before that Images ought not to be worshipped at all and that all religious worship is due onely vnto God wherefore to vs this question is superfluous with what religious worship Images are to be adored for no religious worship at all is due vnto them yet let vs vouchsafe the while to see the contradictions that are amongst them and the absurdities that they are driuen vnto 1 Our Rhemists confesse that Images are not at all to be worshipped with any diuine honour Act. 17. sect 5. But it was decreed in the idolatrous Councel of Nice the second and maintained by Thomas Aquinas Bonauentur Caietanus and other papists that the image of God is to bee worshipped with the same worship that is due vnto God And Bellarmine commeth not much short of them that sayth improprie improperly Images may haue the same worship as the Kings ambassadour improperly is honoured as the King I pray you how farre are these men from making their Images Gods for they say they are the Lords deputies and Vicegerents as the ambassadour is for the King Againe the Rhemists affirme that the Images of Christ are not to be honoured or accounted of but for the respect and relation they haue to our Sauiour Annot. Philipp 2.2 So the Tridentine Councel determineth Sess. 25. Honos qui eis debetur refertur ad prototypa quae illae repraesentant The honor due vnto them is to be referred vnto those things which they represent But Bellarmine teacheth cleane contrarie that they haue not onely a respectiue honour as representing other things but properly and in themselues considered are to be worshipped We may see by this how handsomely they agree together 2. Let vs see their absurdities First they hold that all images are not to be worshipped alike for they make 3. degrees of religious worship the
bodie to abstayne from hurtfull meates as likewise to keepe a temperate and sober dyet and to take heede of surfetting and drunkennesse These kindes of abstinence in making difference of meates wee mislike not but for pietie or religions sake to distinguish them it is to too great superstition The Papists FOurthly their religious kinde of fasting they holde not to bee a generall error 77 abstinence from all meates and drinkes but onely from some certaine kindes as from flesh and wine as Timothie refrayned from drinking of wine and in steade thereof vsed water 1. Timothie 5. verse 23. Rhemist The Protestants Ans. FIrst for chastising of the bodie it is lawfull to abstayne either wholly for a time or in respect of the quantitie or qualitie of the meates which may more prouoke carnall lusts not in the prohibition of the whole kind as the Papists doe of all flesh bee it neuer so grosse or small in quantitie Likewise it is lawfull for chastising of a mans body to abstaine from any kinde as of wine fruites spices flesh so that the vse of them be not forbidden as though in the very abstinence there were religion Fulk ibid. 2 But the true and properly religious fast of Christians is a generall abstinence from all meats and drinkes during the time of such fasting Esther 4.16 Nehemiah 9.4 Where the manner of their fast is described howe the lawe was read vnto them foure times in the day and as oft did they worship the Lord and confesse their sinnes It was the custome of the Church also in Augustines time in the dayes of fast not to abstaine onely from flesh or some certayne kinde of meate as the Papists vse but altogether to continue fasting till the eeuen Rogo vos fratres sayth he vt in isto sacratissimo tempore exceptis dieb dominicis nullus prandere praesumat I pray you brethren that in this holy time none of you presume to dine at all except it be vpon the Lords daies Ergo they that wil keepe a true religious fast if they are able ought for the time wholly to absteyne The Papists error 78 FIftly they erre in affirming fasting to be a meritorious worke Rhemist 1. Corinth 15. vers 32. Anna Tobie Iudith Esther serued and pleased God by fasting Annot. Math. 15. sect 3. The Protestants Ans. FIrst we doubt not but that fasting is a worke acceptable to God being referred to the right end as to chastise and humble the bodie 1. Corinthians 9.27 and to make our prayers more feruent 1. Corinthians 7.5 But otherwise there is no holinesse or vertue in fasting of it selfe neither is it by the worke wrought of any merite or worthines For our prayers which are a more principall worke then fasting is yet of themselues by any worthynes in them are not regarded of God for Salomon sayth When thou hearest haue mercie 1. King 8.30 It is of the Lords mercy that our prayers are heard not of any worthynes in them Augustine sayth very well Si volumus bene ieiunare à cibis ante omnia ieiunemus à vitijs Quid prodest pallidum esse ieiunijs si odio inuidia liuescas What doth it helpe to fast from meate if wee fast not from sinne What auayleth it to be pale and wan with fasting if thou frettest with hatred and enuie Ergo the externall or outward acte of fasting of it selfe is litle or nothing worth The Papists error 79 SIxtly and lastly they grieuously offend in their fastings in laying so straight and hard a yoke vppon mens shoulders as charging them vnder payne of damnation to keepe their fasting dayes making it deadly sinne yea heresie to transgresse them as one Laurence Staple was troubled and persecuted anno 1531. because in Lent hauing no fish hee did eate egges butter and cheese nay they were so cruell that hardly they suffered women in child-bed to haue flesh in their houses As anno 1532. two young Gyrles were constrayned to abiure because they were found vppon Saint Peters eeuen eating broth made of mutton their mother lying in childe-bed Howe was poore Frebarne tossed too and fro and brought into great daunger because a pigge was found in his house in Lent time for the which his wife longed The Protestants Ans. FIrst no positiue law not grounded vppon scripture can so binde any person that in the breaking of such hee shall sinne deadlie And of this sorte is the fast of Lent and other dayes for religion which were ordayned without authoritie of scripture Lambert ad articul 17. And seeing the rest of the Sabboth being the commaundement of GOD might yet vpon necessarie cause be broken as wee haue shewed how much greater libertie ought the people to haue had in the obseruation of those dayes which were onely inioyned by men for who seeth not that the rest in the Lords day being Gods owne appoyntment ought more surely to binde then fasting vpon forbidden dayes enforced by men yet was it counted an heynous sinne to eate flesh vpon a day interdict and a small offence or none to violate the rest of the Sabboth 2 Saint Paul could see no such necessitie of fasting and abstinence when hee willeth Timothie to drinke wine and no longer water for his infirmities sake 1. Timoth. 5.23 But if there were religion in fasting and abstinence it ought not to be intermitted for the bodily health for the lesse principall is to giue place to the greater In Augustines time also there was no such necessitie Qui ieiunare non praeualet in domo sua praeparet quod accipiat He that is not able to fast let him prepare in his house for his owne eating And agayne Si possibilitas non fuerit ieiunandi sufficit eleemosyna sine ieiunio If a man haue not possibilitie to fast in stead of fasting let him giue almes What is become now of your Lent and Imber fastes which you prescribe as necessary to be kept of all THE NINTH QVESTION CONcerning the Virgine Marie THis question standeth of many parts 1. Whether the B. Virgin Marie were conceiued without sin Secondly whether she vowed Virginitie before the Angel was sent vnto her Thirdly of the assumption of her body into heauen Fourthly of the dignitie and preeminence that shee hath as they affirme aboue all other Saints yea and the Angels to Fiftly of the merites of the virgin Marie and of the Aue Maria. THE FIRST PART WHETHER THE Virgin Marie were voyde of original and actuall sinne The Papists error 80 1 AL men are borne in sinne Christ onely excepted and his mother for his honor Rhemist Rom. 5. sect 9. Answ. it is no more dishonour for Christ to be borne of a sinner then to haue taken his flesh and lineally descended according to his humanity of Thamar that committed incest with Iuda and Rahab which was an harlot Math. 1.3.5 Secondly it maketh more for the honor of God that Christ was borne without sinne