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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A16170	A courteous conference with the English Catholikes Romane about the six articles ministred vnto the seminarie priestes, wherein it is apparantly proued by their owne diuinitie, and the principles of their owne religion, that the Pope cannot depose her Maiestie, or release her subiectes of their alleageance vnto her. And finally, that the bull of Pius Quiutus [sic] pronounced against her Maiestie is of no force eyther in lawe or conscience, all Catholicke scruples to the contrarie beeing throughly and perfectly cleared and resolued, and many memoriall matters exactly discussed, which haue not beene handled by man heeretofore. Written by Iohn Bishop a recusant papist.	Bishop, John, d. 1613.; Frewen, John, 1558-1628.	1598 (1598)	STC 3092; ESTC S102284	61,282	90

famous Cardinall Taietan● that doth hold and maintaine that the Pope cannot erre in the definition of faith yet doth affirme in his commentaries vpon Mathew that he may erre in iudgement whether a thing be lawfull or noe And therefore he doth not accept the de●rees of the Pope in his controuersie of diuotee for definitiue of faith but for iudiciall And in iudgementes the Popes themselues saith he doe confesse that they haue erred and so then may also a generall counsell erre in iudgements by your owne rules if perhaps any iudgement be to be founde of the counsell of the Laterane against Raimond the Earle of Tolouse for not purging his country of the Albigenses Canons of counsels binde not but where they are receiued Nowe this first scruple beeing taken away let vs descend vnto our next article and conclusion that the Canon doth not binde vs in this realme who is so ignorant that knoweth not that all decrees and Canons of generall counsels are not obserued and kept in euerie country neyther doe thy binde the breakers of them in conscience As for example there was a decree made by the counsell at Nice that deacons shall not sit aboue priestes but yet we doe see at Rome the Deacon Cardinalles doe sitte aboue Bishoppes that be no Cardinalles Likewise in Sexto Constantinapolitano in Trullo there is forbidden kneeling in praier on the Sundayes and soe likewise all the time betweene Easter and Whitsontide And also that no man shall fast the Saturnedaies in Lent but the quite contrarie of both Canons was most vsuall in this lande and thought most deuoute when the Pope was in his highest prime heere Moreouer it is the common opinion of all the Canonistes that the decrees and Canons reformatiue doe not else where binde but where they haue beene receiued and therefore our seminary priestes doe holde that the Catholickes Romane of this Realme nor yet those in France be not bounde to obserue the Canons of the late counsell at Trent because they haue beene publikly receiued in neyther of the kingdomes This then beeing soe if I can prooue that this Canon of deposing of princes was neuer receiued in this Realme then haue I conuinced that it doth binde no man of this Realme in conscience And this will I first prooue by circumstance of the time and secondly because diuers other 〈◊〉 for downe in the same counsell were neuer obserued 〈◊〉 as for this Canon The Canon neuer receiued proued by circumstance of time it neuer came in practise heare ●ntill Kinge Henrie the eyght First it is certaine that the counsell at Laterane was helde in Anno Domini 1215. and in the seuenth yeare of the raigne of Kinge Io●n and in the time of the bloodie broyles of the Barons against the kinge it can not bee denyed but that the kinge had three Embassadours there and likelie enough it is that they subscribed and consented as the rest of the Embassadours did for their master sought all the meanes he coulde to please the Pope that hee might haue his helpe against the Barons and so indeede hee stoode his fast friende and at the counsell accursed the Barons suspended the Archbishoppe of Canterburie Stephan Lang●●● for taking parte with them and for the same quarrell would not allowe his brother Simon Elected Archbishoppe of yorke so that there is no doubte but the greatest parte of the realme were as readie to displease the Pope as their prince was to please him for the chiefest cause that moued the king to sende Embassadours vnto the counsell was saith Mathews of Paris to procure the Popes curse against the Barons These wofull warres continued to the death of kinge Iohn soe that no parliament was or coulde be helde whereby this Canon could be receiued For if Sir Thomas More in his debellation doth truely say that kinge Iohn coulde not make his kingdome tributarie to the Pope without the consente of the parliament much lesse coulde he giue the Pope authority to giue the realme away God knowes to whom it should please him or that Christian that was able to winne it by fine force for according to the rule of the Canon Lawe Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus debet approbari that which toucheth all men ought to be allowed and approued and confirmed by all wherefore the Lord chiefe Iustice in the first yeare of the raigne of Henry the seuenth as we doo reade in the reportes of the same yeare Termino Hillarii Chap. 10. affirmed that all the Barrons vnto the Pope that after a sorte commaunded Edwarde the first to surcease from warring on the Scottes that helde of him That although the king woulde giue away the right he had to Scotlands yet for all that it shoulde not be soe because that hee that is king of England is alwaies chiefe Lorde of Scotland And if the king of this Realme cannot of himselfe dispose of a thing annexed and incorporated to the crowne of this kingdome will any wise man be of opinion that king Iohn coulde dispose of the crowne of England of himselfe without the assent and consent of the states and ordaine forfeytures thereof to forreyners and strangers And although I can easily be perswaded that the subiectes for the extreame hatred that they bare vnto their present prince The iniquitie of the Canon woulde lightly be wonne to accept of causes to be discharged of their alleageanc to their king yet can I hardly be induced to beleeue that they coulde suffer themselues their wiues and children landes and liuinges goods and country to be exposed to the sacke and spoyle of all their neighbours yea of all Christendome if they shoulde vnhappily happe to haue a wicked king And also well might they satisfie the will and intent of the counsell without any such pernicious perill of there whole state and also retaine still their ancient honour and liberty if they themselues did make choise of the Physition that should purge them if that the law of God had not vtterly forbidden thē to rebell frō their prince were he neuer so wicked and not foolishly bind themselues to take a purgation of they know not whom perhaps vnhappily of such a one 〈◊〉 ●●te likely to purge them of ill humors so extreamely that he would destroy the habit of their bodye And hereof ●o saide an example they neded not to seeke far For as the very same instant they had a very plaine proofe thereof in France where the earle of Tolowse was depriued of his earledome because he would not purge his dominions of the Albigenses and the earledome giuen by the Pope vnto Simon the Earle of Monssort For that I may omit how bloudily Monssort executed the Popes mandate being generall of the Croysy against the Albigenses in sacking the Cities murdering the men and women how he did also vnder that pretence assaulte sacke cityes that were not one whit infected with that sect and slew in one battell twentie thousand

displeasures of himselfe his friendes and vassalls At the same time the french king Philip le Beau had spoyled Edward the fi●st king of England iniuriously of the greatest parte of Guienne and also Guy the Eare of Fuaunders almost of his whole Earldome and was not deposed therefore The cause is apparant Sicily was held of the Church of Rome and so was neither Guienne nor Flaunders But although he escaped scot-free for these wronges and the long detayning in prison the Earle of Flaunders and two of his sonnes yet he was depriued of his kingdome by Pope Boniface the eight Philip the faire for imprisoning of a french Bishop that rayled at him and menaced him when he coulde not winne him to grant to goe with an Army into the holy land on the which message the Pope had sent him vnto the king as saith Platina But the french Chronicles report that the king caused him to be apprehended at home at his owne house for that he vnderstoode that he vsed often to speake very ill of him and to rayle outragiously on hm and deliuered him vnto his primate the Bishop of Tolouse to punish him with his aduise The kingdome of France was giuen vnto Albert the Emperour perhappes for a reward of his wickednesse in slaying of his soueraigne Adolph the Emperour for other punishment I doe not finde that Pope did put him vnto therefore See Mun●ter cos●●●mog lib. 3. in Al. 2. But yet I doe not doubt but the fault was more heinous then emprisoning of a Bishop for rayling against his prince and Lord. Yea and that God did so account it he made it manifest vnto the worlde by his seuere punishment of all the conspiratours For Albert himselfe was murdered by his owne Cosen germane the Archbishop of Ments founde deade sitting in his chaire The Bishop Stasburge was slaine by a pesant at F●●●●nge in Brisgow The Earle of Linengen died ma●de The Earle of Sweibrucken was drowned in a riuer The Earle of Ochsenstein had his deaths wound in the battell And the Earle H●●gerloch was slaine on the way by Otho the Duke of Danao But to proceede Lewes th 12 of France was excommunicated denounced a scismatike and his kingdome and goods exposer for a common spoyle to all Christians and the like penalty pronounced on all them that did or should take his part or ayde him Lewes the twelfih And therefore Iohn the king of Nauarre lost his kingdome for procuring of a generall counsell to be called and held without the consent of the Pope against the Pope that there his infestious foe Iul●us the second might be deposed an other more frendly placed in his roome And doth not this altogether smell of priuate reuenge and not of charity But perhaps you will say it was a foule part of him that would be called the most Christian king to sow sedition and scisme throughout all Christendome for his owne priuate quarrell and that this doing of his was so ill thought of by most of the pri● 〈…〉 of Christendome that they entred therefore into league against him and had almost set him besides his saddle In truth I can neyther prayse the practise nor the pollicie of the French who sought to represse the iniurious attemptes of the Pope against him rather by colour of lawe to the disturbance of all Christendome then by armes and inuading the Popes territories as Philippe the moderne king of Spayne wisely did in the like case and fondely thought it lesse enuyous Anno Domini 556. and more agreeable vnto his surname of the most Christian king which his ancest●rs had purchasesed by defending the Popes and Peters patrimony with armes to rayse vp a scisme then to force the Pope to frindship by materiall force But that the Pope compelled him to this outrage all writers doe confesse For first contrary to the league made at Cambray betweene him the Emperour the French king the king Spaine and the Duke of Ferara against the Venetians who had encroched vpon thē all he hauing gotten all that he claimed ●ee Iouius ●n vita Al●hons ●●uiciardi●●o not onely made peace with the Venetians without the consent of his confederates but also excōmunicated and with armes enuaded the fast friend of the French the Duke of Ferara because that he not hauing yet recouered all his right of them would not cease to molest the Venetians And also he left no stone vnturned to turne the French out of Milan an Genna the which he at the length brought to passe And was not he then the author of all his tragedie Moreouer this Popes brothers sonne Duke of Vrbine cruelly murdered of emulation Alidosius a Bishop a Cardinall See Iouius ●n vit Alphons Guic. Boleslaw and Legate of Bologna almost in the Popes sight and was put to no penance therefore But Boleslaw the hardie king of Poland was depriued by Pope Gregorie the seuenth of his kingdome and also the country of the honour to haue a king in the which dishonour it continued 200 yeares f●●●●ying with his owne hande in his fury Stanislaw the Bishop of Craccow for excommunicating him yea and interdicting the whole Citie of Craccow to make him the more odious because he openly kept another mans wife and for adultery a thing which as it should seeme by Cromerus as common in Poland in those daies as the cart way Yea those noble women that were honest were forced to forsake there owne howses See Cromerus hist Pola lib. 4. for feare of force and rauishment yea and it was common in Italy and passed vnpunished in meaner men then princes But yet in verie trueth the kinges fact was verie foule and made worse by the furie of his fellowes that chopped in peeces the slayne corpes and cast it to the crowes And yet perhaps Dauid did almost all ill in defiling of a noble mans bed while he was in his seruice in the fielde and afterward commaunding him to be murdered for his amendes but so dealt not Bolislawe with Stanislaw and if the qualities of the persons be not equall then the manner of the doing doth ouermatch the one being done without any prouocation and of aduised malice the other vppon a greate ignominy vnwonted with kinges offered him and vpon a sodaine while his blood was hotte which seauen yeares continuall absence from his countrie in forraine warres a little before had ouerheated And yet Dauid lost not his Kingdome therefore Neither doe we reade of any realme interdicted for murdering of their Kinges whereof we haue almost infinite examples or any man deposed for intruding into them by such wickednesse vnlesse perhappes the murdered Prince were the Popes vassall Soe that this zeale in seuere punishing of princes for misusing them of the clergy I feare me may be imputed rather to a partiall fauour towardes them of their owne coate and done for their owne securitie then for zeale of Iustice Like as our Sargeants at

See they will be the successors of Constantine and not of Peter c. And in this minde they continued in the reigne of king Edward the first when the Parliament assembled at Lincolne thus wrote as we reade in Thomas of VValsingham flores historiarum vnto Bonifacius the viii who among other things in his letters to the king had requested that if the King had any right in the kingdomes of Scotland or any part thereof that he would send his proctors and learned counsell vnto him and there the matter shoulde speedily with iustice be adiudged decided Neither that the kings of England had by reason of the preeminence of their state regall dignity and costome at all times inuiolably obserued euer answered or ought to answere before any Iudge eccelesiasticall or secular about his rights in the aforesaide kingdome of Scotland or other his temporalities wherefore we hauing held a diligent consultation deliberation vppon the contents of your abouesaide letters it was the common concordious one minded consent of vs all of eueryone of vs shal be for euer hereafter vnaltered that our foresaid Lord the King doe not about the rights of the kingdome of Scotland or other his temporalities in any wise answere iudicially before you nor come vnder iudgement in any sort or bring his rights aforesaide in doubt or question nor therefore sende proctours or messengers vnto your presence seeing the premises doe tende manifestly to the disinheriting of the right of the Crowne of the kingdome of England and the kingly dignitie the notorious subuersion of the state of the same kingdome also to the preiudice of our fathers libertie costoms lawes to the obseruation and defending of whom we are boūd by the duty of oth taken the which we will maintaine in all that we can and will with the helpe of God defend with all our strength Neither also doe wee permit or in any sort will suffer as neither we can nor ought that our foresaide Lord king yea if he would doe or in any cause attempt the premises so vnwonted vndue preiudiciall and at other times so vnheard of c. And now I pray you will any indifferent man beleeue that our countrimen in those daies did thinke that the Pope had authoritie to despose their Kings or knew or heard that their fathers and auncestours had giuen the Pope power to expose the kingdome of their countrie for a common pray for all Christians and Catholickes But now hauing prooued that this Canon cannot bind vs now vnlesse our ancestours had receaued by consent of Parliament also haue shewed that it neither was nor could be done let vs fall to our seconde proofe that the Canons of this Counsell at least in temporall cases were neuer receiued in this Realme In this counsel there was a Canon made vnder payne of excōmunication that the Clergy should not be forced to pay any contribution to secular princes neither shoulde they willingly of their owne accord pay any without licence first obtained of th● Pope Now that this Canon was neuer in force here it doth plainely appeare by the subsidies payde by the Clergy vnto the sonne of King Iohn Chap. 24. Henry the third in the ix the xvi the xxi the xxix the xxxvii the xliiii the xlii yeares of his raigne neuer once asked the Popes consent but contrariwise in the xxxvi yeares of his raigne the king hauing the popes mandate from the Counsell of Lyons See Holin●hed to pay him three tenthes because he was crossed for the holy land they vtterly refused to pay him penny The Clergy did also wthout contradiction pay vnto his sonne and successor Edward the first in the eight yeare of his reaigne thre tenthes and in the eleauenth yeare the twentith part of all their goodes but afterward at the Parliament helde at Saint Edmondesbury Robert the Archbyshoppe of Canterbury and some of the Clergy refused to pay not claming to be exempted by this Canon but by another decre made lately that very yeare by Pope Bonifacius the eight but then the King put the Cleargy out of his protection and thus forced them to yeelde and so they haue continued payment quietly euer since that time An other Canon we haue in the same counsell Chap. 4● that no prescription shall be good during the whole time whereof the possessor did not verelye beleeue that the thing was his owne in truth But that the law of this land did neuer make any distinction of possession bona or malae fidei whether the possessor did think it to be his owne or not at all our Lawyers doe know and acknowledge And also the statutes of limitation made in the Parliamentes held at Marton and VVestminster in the three and twentie yeares of the raignes of Henry the third and Edward the first doe plainelie prooue Also a third Canon there is a branch of this of the desposition of Princes that the goodes of Clarkes condemned for heretikes shall bee forfeited vnto the Churches where they serued This constitution not to bee obserued the author of the booke called the Doctor and the Student doth at large prooue in the xxix Chapter of his seconde booke And also it doth plainely appeare by the statute made in the second yeare of Henry the first Chapt. 7. where wee finde that the goodes of Heretikes of what estate condition and degree soeuer they bee are escheated to the King And also all their landes that houlde immediately of him or of their ordinaries or their commissaries but the landes of all other that holde in chiefe of other Lordes the king to haue them a yeare and a day with their wastes and afterward to returne vnto the Lord of the sea And seeing that in three small matters that touched not the state the Counsell was not nor is receiued can anye wise man beleeue that the Counsell was receaued in a Canon that touched the ruine of the whole country and kingdome and namely seeing it hath beene plainely proued that a part of the very selfe same Canon was neuer alowed Now finally to conclude neither was the sentence of depriuation canonically pronounced against her Maiestie according to thee decree of the Counsell The Canon not orderly executed for whereas she should first haue bene admonished by the Church and then excommunicated by the Metropolitane and his comprouinciall Byshoppes and then if she had contemned to satisfie within one yeare to bee depriued c. It is manifest that she was not excommunicated by the Metropolitane and the Byshoppes of his prouince neyther I doe thinke admonished by the Church but euen at the very first choppe deposed by the Pope Therefore seeing that neyther Pope nor generall counsell haue authoritie to depose Princes or release subiectes of their allegiance neyther was the Canon of the Counsell of Laterane for deposing of Princes euer receiued in this land nor any other Canons of Counsels that touched temporalities neyther yet that Canon orderly executed ●-against her Maiesty What good Christian English man can thinke that hee was by that Bull of Pius Quin●●● discharged of his obedience and allegiance that hee oweth vnto her Maiestye And can absurdly beleeue that all those that shall dye in that quarell shall vndoubtedlye bee damned in hell fire with all miscreants and rebelles FINIS

happely they could bring him within the compasse of treason by denying the paiment of tribute vnto the Emperour and so procure his death by the Romaine president as seditious And therefore he asked them why they tempted him and willed them to shew him a peny and then he demaunded of them whose image was stamped on the peece and they answered the Emperours then saide he giue the Emperour that which is his and so likwise ynto god that which is gods a very obscure sentence giuen by a iudge in a sute but a wise and wittie answere for such false traterous Interrogants And with the like trisles doth the same Felisius also trouble vs when he goeth about to proue the exemption of the clergy frō free subiection of secular princes because Melchisdech was both a king and a priest so likewise Moses a priest supreme gouernor of the Iseralites And finally Hely was both high priest and also secular Prince or iudge of the Iewes For if Melchisedech were both a King and a Priest what is that to the controuersie that we haue now in hand whether that Priestes be subiect vnto the temporall Prince but perhaps it touched the matter if we had disputed whether that a Bishop may be also a temporall Prince See Fenestella As for a King to be a Priest was an vsual thing in many countries among the heathen Yea all the Romaine Kings had the chiefe charge of the sacrifices temples and worshippe of the gods and therefore when the Kinges were expelled they ordained a priest whom they called the sacrificing King who should execute those publicke sacrifices which did of right belong vnto the Kings function but for hatred of their kings made him subiect vnto the chiefe Priest or Pontifiex Maximus the which office of Pontifiex Maximus all the heathen Romaine Emperours continually had See Dion c. But that Moses was both the ciuill magistrate and also a priest it maketh very much against himselfe for although we doe grant that Moses was a Priest yet it is most manifest that he was not high Priest but his brother Aaron whome yet to be subiect vnto Moses all men seene in the sacred scriptures do knowe so that nothing can make more for the superioritie of the ciuill magistrate then this example that Aaron being high Priest and head and chiefe of all Priestes was yet subiect to Moses an ordinary Priest Moses was a prophet and not a priest because he had the soueraigntie temporall Likewise what is it to the purpose if that Hely the high Priest was also created secular magistrate for so were all the high Priestes after the returne of the people from Babilon vntill they were conquered by the Romaines and the kingdome was giuen by them vnto Herodes a stranger and Idumean Now seeing we haue aboundantly prooued in generall the superioritie of the ciuill magistrate ouer all men liuing within their dominions both by expresse places of scripture and authorities of auncient fathers and also conuinced the subiection of the high Priest in the olde law vnto the ciuill Prince and clearely shewed Christs kingdom to be spirituall and that he gaue none other to Peter and the rest of the Apostles and their successors and haue fully answered all obiections of the aduersaries I will descende vnto practise and prooue the superioritie of Emperours and Italian Kings ouer the Popes and Bishoppes of Rome by the prescripsion of seauen hundreth yeares after Christ 〈◊〉 kinde of proofe which we Catholickes Romaine exact of the Protestants crying vnto them to shew their successiion But because Pighius the Popes proctor in the secular primacy doth subiect his client vnto the heathen Emperours The Pops subiect to the Emperours and Italian kings I neede fetch my limmitation noe higher then Constantine the greate the first Christian Emperour Now to shew how he banished Bishoppes perhappes will be thought to small purpose because they doe giue this earthly Empire not vnto the Clergy but onely vnto the Bishoppe of Rome as Christs lieuetenant generall in all causes as well spirituall as temporall See for these histories Paul Dia● Platina and Sabellicus But I doe finde that his sonne and successor Constantius did banish Liberius the Bishoppe of Rome because he would not subscribe to the deposition of Athanasius and caused another to be c●osen in his place Moreouer when the Cytie of Rome and the Country of Italy came by conquest into the possession of the Ostrogothes in Anno Domin 483. Liberius Theodoricus the King of the Ostrogothes or of Italy commanded to come before him to Rauenna whether he had transferred the seate of the Empire of Italy leauing the city of Rome in the gouernement of the Senate Symmachus And least some man vnskilfull of antiquities should dreame that it was then the Popes by the donation of Constantine Theodoricus I say summoned before him at Rauenna Symmachus and Laurentius who contended for the Bishopperickes of Rome to the diuision of the whole Cytie I●hn that he as soueraing might determine the controuersy vpon hearing of the matter And afterward when Iustinus Emperour of Constantinople had banished the Arrians out of all his dominions Theodoricus sent Iohn the byshoppe of Rome and their Senatours Embassadours vnto Iustinus willing them in threatning sort to tell the Emperour from him that vnlesse hee did spedily restore to the Arrians theire Churches and suffer them to liue in peace that he would extinguish 〈…〉 Italy They comming to 〈…〉 honorably receiued by him did with 〈…〉 beeing very hoofull for the safetie of themselues and 〈◊〉 countrymen entreat the Emperour gratiously to graunt the ●●nor of their Embassage although it were vniust and to haue regard and compassion of Italy which otherwise would vtterly perish with whose teares the Emperour beeing mooued granted them their request But when the Bishoppe with his associates were returned to Rauenna to make relation vnto the King of the Emperours answere Theodoricus mooued with malice because 〈◊〉 a defender of the Catholicke pietie had receiued him so honorably killed him and his fellowes with painefull imprisonment Then Theodotus annother king of the Ostrogothes sent Agapetus Agapetus the Bishoppe of Rome Embassadour as his subiect vnto Iustinian the Emperour which Iustinian not long after hauing recouered Rome from the Ostrogothes did not by his Lieuetenant but by his Lieuetenant Belsarius his wife spoyle Siluerius Silberius the Bishoppe of Rome of his Bishopprick● Bishoppes robes and putting him in monasticall needes confined him into an out Iland Charging him that he would haue betrayed the gate Asmaria that adioyned vnto his house vnto the Ostrogothes but in deed perhappes there was some other priuie grudge hidden in the Empresse her heart But the manner of the doing doth manifestly declare for how smale Princes Popes were reputed in those daies for Belsarius sending an officer for him the Bishoppe was brought into his bedde Chamber because Belsarius sate by his

the temple because hee offred incense but because the wraith of GOD had made him a leper the which kinde of men by the expresse commaundement of GOD might not conuerse with other And if wee will receiue the report and assertion of Iosephus a learned Priest and historian of the Iewes the priestes did not thrust him out of the temple but admonished him to depart the which hee did soone obey when he saw himselfe made so loathsome on a sodaine was astonied with the manifest wraith of God and hereunto the text seameth to assent which saith and hastily they expelled him c. But he himselfe also made hast to goe out because he had presently felt the plague or strooke of God But that he was as some seeme to say deposed of his Kingdome therefore we doe reade neither in the scriptures nor in Iosephus But onely this saith Paralyp So King Ozias was a leeper euen to his dying day and dwelt in an house by himselfe because he was full of leprosie for the which he had beene cast out of the house of the Lord Furthermore Ioathan his sonne gouerned the kings house and iudged the people of the land And almost the same words wee reade in the booke of the kings Soe that by the wordes of the text it doth not appeare that he was either deposed or did giue vp the Kingdom but onely abandoned al resort by reason of his contagious sicknesse and ignominy gaue vp the maneging of matters of state and the princely port vnto his sonne and so accordingly whosoeuer doth marke diligently the supputiaton of yeares which the booke of the Kings maketh shall manifestly see that he reckoneth Ozias his raigne euen vntill his dying day Neither if that Ozias had beene deposed because of his leprosy would it soe much further theire cause as they faine in saying that heresy is inward leprosy then Idolatry is And yet can they not finde that euer any King of the Iewes was deposed by the high Priest for Idolatry nor any Christian prince by the Pope for any cause for the space of seauen hundreth yeares after Christ although those times yeelded many vngodly Princes as we haue shewed you before of Emperours one flatly fallen from the faith vnto Paganisme sundry Arrians some Monothlets and Eutiches and many cruell persecutors of the Catholickes And so likewise many of the Ostrogothes in Italy were Arrians and many moe in the same prouince of the Lombard kinges And yet a farre longer race of the Westgotish Kings in Spaine But if any man will rubbe his face and say that the Byshoppes of Rome in those ages eyther had not so much knowledge in the worde of GOD or else so greate zeale as there successors since all men that shall heare them will shoute at them They write that when Nero whipped Senatoures executed noble men spoyled Citizens wasted prouinces without cause or colour and finally in all things made his lust law he triumphing at this iolitie boasted that neuer any man before him did know what an Emperour might doe Act. 5. Certes the holy and learned fathers in ancient time knew not this diuinitie that when there princes wrongfully oppressed them they should straightway cast off their yoke but rather patiently beare whatsoeuer ill should be inflicted on them for Gods cause Mat. 5. They remembred that the Apostles from whom they set their light and learning being whipped at a conuocation of the Iewish Pristes and Elders went away reioycing because they were counted worthie to suffer reproach for the name of Iesus Athanatius in epla 2. ad vlit vit Agent They had not forgotten the saying of their Sauiour Mat. 5. Blessed are they that suffer persecution for righteousnesse for theires is the Kingdome of heauen Ye are blessed when men shall curse you and persecute you and lying shall say all manner of euill against you for me Reioyce and be glad because your reward in heauen is abundant for so they persecuted the Prophets that were before you When Constantius the wicked Emperour vrged Hosius the holy Byshoppe of Cordula the Byshoppe of Rome his deputy and the three hundreth Byshoppes assembled at Sa●dica with bitter banishment as he had alreadie serued many of there colledges vnlesse they would subscribe to the wicked errour of Arrius they all refused to doe it but they did not menace the Emperour with deposition if hee woulde not relinquish his false faith and reuoke the godly banished Byshoppes bur contrariwise confessed vnto him Non nob●s fas est imperium in te●riis tenere it is not lawfull for vs to holde Empire on the earth And not withstanding all his hurtfull wickednesse yet they affirmed that he that should cast but a malignant eye at his Empire did resist the ordinance of God so farre were they from thinking that his subiectes might openly take armes against him Don Iohn De Austria in his warres in the low Cuntries Don Iohns ensignes bare in his ensigne a deuise of a crosse with this word In hoc signo vicī Turcos in h c signo vincam hereticos with this signe I ouercame the Turkes with this signe I will vanquish the heretikes so if the latter Popes had saide with this vertue and weapon of patience our ancestors ouercame the heathen and heriticall Emperours and with the same we will ouercome the Emperours that will intrude vppon our temporalities perhappes their state had not bene now so staggering for whosoeuer shall marke the course of the history of the Church of God shall finde that it hath growen greate by patience but hath rather decreased then encreased by armes and violence Moreouer if the Popes will vouchsafe to reade their old recordes they shall see and vnderstande that such of their predecessors as armed themselues with patience and vsed none other but the spirituall sword and that also sparingly and seldome were had of all men in greater reputation and reuerence and could doe more in the world then their successors that after the spirituall sword which Christ had deliuered vnto them sharpe and dreadfull to be vsed onelie in extremitie but in his cause quarell had through there continuall abusing and drawing at euery light priuate braule became so hagled blunt and contemptible that euery boy laught at it did furiously fall to catching of the secular sworde out of the temporall magistrates hand Like as they report of Iulius the seconde whether meerely deuised or done in deede I saith Ferou know not that when he went in person into the fielde against the French armed with a paire of keyes in his hande and a sworde by his side hee threw his keyes into the riuer of Tiber and therewith all drawing his sworde saide seeing Peters keyes haue done noe good Paules sworde shall helpe mee And surely therein the Pope fared like Ioakin the King of Iuda who trusted in a rotten reede the king of Egypt to defende him against the Assyrian And so they incurred