some excess of kindness to me V. With this Defence against Doctor Stillingfleet I at once pubblish in another Volume An Apology for the Nonconfirmists Preaching with an Answer to a multitude of their Accusers and Reasons to prove that it is the Bishops and Conformists great Duty and Interest to seek their Restoration Which is the most material part of the Confutation of Doctor Stillingfleet who would persuade us that our Preaching is a sin and make us guilty of silencing our selves FINIS Books lately Printed for Nevil Simmons â—â— the Three Cocks at the West and of St. Pauls 1. CHurch-History of the Government of Bishops and their Councils abbreviated Including the Chief part of the Government of Christian Princes and Popes and a true account of the most troubling Controversies and Heresies till the Reformation Written for the use especially of them 1. Who are ignorant or misinformed of the state of the Ancient Churches 2. Who cannot read many and great Volumes 3. Who think that the Universal Church must have one visible Soveraign Personal or Collective Pope or General Councils 4. Who would know whether Patriarchs Diocesans and their Councils have been or must be the Cure of Heresies and Schisms 5. Who would know the truth about the great Heresies which have divided the Christian World especially the Donatists Novatians Arians Macedonians Nestorians Eutychians Monothelites c. 2. A Treatise of Episcopacy Confuting by Scripture Reason and the Churches Testimony that sort of Diocesan Churches Prelacy and Government which casteth out the Primitive Church Species Episcopacy Ministry and Discipline and confoundeth the Christian World by Corruption Usurpation Schism and Persecution Meditated in the Year 1640 when the Et-câ—tera Oath was imposed Written 1671. and cast by Published 1680. by the importunity of our Superiours who demand the Reasons of our Nonconformity 3. A Moral Prognostication 1. What shall befall the Church on Earth till their Concord by the Restitution of their Primitive purity simplicity and Charity 2. How that Restitution is like to be made if ever and what shall befall them thenceforth unto the End in that Golden Age of Love All three by Rich. Baxter 4. Memorabilia or The most Remarkable Passages and Counsels Collected out of the several Declarations and Speeches that have been made by the King his Lord-Chancellors and Keepers and the Speeches of the Honourable House of Commons in Parliament since his Majesties happy Restauration Anno 1660. till the end of the last Parliament 1680. Reduced under four Heads 1. Of the Protestant Religion 2. Of Popery 3. Of Liberty and Property c. 4. Of â—â—rliaments By Edward Cooks of the Middle Temple Esq READER I Must take this opportunity for the avoiding of mistakes to give thee notice that whereas against them that plead for the necessity of an uninterrupted Succession of Episcopal ordination I have in the Preface to my Book for Universal Concord and in the beginning of my Breviate of Church-History said that our Northern English Episcopacy was derived from such as were no Bishops but Scottish Monks and Presbyters and that Aidan and Finan Tromhere Coleman were such lest I be misunderstood I must further explain my meaning viz. 1. The Culdees that were no Bishops first guided the Affairs of Religion in Scotland long before the coming of Palladius 2. These Culdees chose themselves for order sake some few to be as Guides and Governorus to the rest whom Writers called Scotorum Episcopos but were no Bishops in our controverted sense but as an Abbot among Monks and as the Presidents or Principals of Colledges rule those that are of the same office or order with them Nor had they any limited fixed Diocesses 3. And if any will call these Bishops and the question be but de nomine let them call them so and spare not I contend not against them 4. Afterwards Palladius sent from Rome began a higher sort of Bishops But the Culdees still kept up the greater part against him 5. Columbanus his Monastery in the Isle of Hy restored the Culdees strength And the Monks out of that Island were the most prevailing Clergy of Scotland who had no proper Episcopal ordination Or if you will call their ordainers Bishops they were not only ejusdem ordinis with the Presbyters but also not ordained by Bishops themselves but made such by mission from the Monastery and bare election and ordination of Presbyters 6. Out of this famous holy Monastery was Aidan first and Finan after and Tromhere c. and Coleman after sent into Northumberland where they aresaid to be made Bishops And they were the first Bishops that came thither and so had no ordination in England from any Bishops that were there before Nor is there any probability that the Palladian Bishops did ordain them Bishops But that their own order of Senior Monks and Presbyters only ordained them 7. Beda was such a votary to the Church of Rome that his testimony runs more for the Romish interest than most of the Scottish or English Historians of those times yet lib. 3. c. 5. saith of Aidan but that his approbation was in Conventu Seniorum and sic illum ordinantes ad praedicandum miserunt And c. 25. that Finan pro illo gradum Episcopatus a Scottis ordinatus missus acceperat qui in insula Lindisfarnensi secit Ecclesiam Episcopali sedi congruam Quam tamen more Scottorum uno de lapide sed de robore secto totam composuit arundine â—exit Et defuncto Finano qui post ipsum fuerit cum Colmannus in Episcopain sucâ—ederet ipse missus a Scotia c. And the King Oswi himself was taught by the Scots and was of their Language and for their way And Cedda was ordained by the Scots And at a Synod three or four of these kind of Bishops with the King and his Son and Hilda a woman Abbesse were the Company that made it c. 25. And c. 26. Tuda also was ordained by the Scots And c. 4. The Bishops themselves were under the Government of the Abbot juxta exemplum primi Doctoris qui non Episcopus sed Presbyter extitit et Monachus 8. Li. 3. c. 28. he saith that non erat tune ullus excepto Wini in totâ Britania Canoniee ordinatus Episcopus 9. And as there is no word of proof that it was the Palladian Roman Bishops that ordained these Northumbrian Bishops so there is enough to the contrary in that all these foresaid Bishops continued the stiffe enemies of the Roman Power and order which Palladius came to introduce Insomuch that Beda oft mentioneth their utter aversion to the Roman party and that the Brittons and Scots were all of a mind and Daganus and the rest would not so much as eate with the Romanists no nor so much as eat in the same house or Inn with them lib. 2. c. 4. 10. And lastly even that sort of Episcopacy which they took in Northumberland was but Equivocally so called as to that which we dispute about and not Ejusdem Speciei For. 1. They never pretended to a distinct order from the Presbyters 2. They had but one poor Church made of Wood and thatcht with Reeds and no possessions else And from theâ—â—e they went from village to village to instruct convert and pray with the people And that our English Episcopacyâ—eriâ—eth â—eriâ—eth its succession from these Scots and the Brittaineâ— and not frome Rome by Augustine and Palladius I refer the Reader to Mr. Jones and to the Preface before Knox his Church-History Thus much I thought needfull to prevent being misunderstood about the Episcopacy of Aidan 〈◊〉 c. Such an Episcopacy as the Bishop of Hereford pleade th for in his Naked Truth I meet with few that are against any more than that the Colledge of Physicians or Philosophers or Divines have â— President FINIS a The new Church since Bishop Laud's change b Note that the Bishops Book as against me runs upon a mere fiction p. 76. that I traduce him as a Factor for Popery when I had not a word to that purpose yea expresly excepted him by name though I argued against his too neer approach c No such thing but of the Churches within the Empire then d was there no necessary cause till after An. 1200 e So then these Protestant Bishops give the Pope Patriarchal Power and Primacy of Order and as much as the Greeks But 1. They had by Councils of old no Patriarchal Power over other Kingdoms out of the Empire 2. Obedience to the Pope as a Patriarch is against the Oath of Supremacy and on the matter little differeth our case from obeâ—ing him as Pope f So that this Arch-Bishop also was set on the pious design of joyning with the Papists on these terms and may not we have leave to worship God on better terms g That is 1. The Pope is not to govern us arbitrarily but by Canons Which what they are is hardly known 2. And all will be Schismaticks that so obey him not h 1. Thus for union with Rome all Protestants must pass for self made Schismaticks that cannot obey the Pope as Patriarch And doth this tend indeed to Concord It would open Protestants eyes did I but tell you all that is in the Canons which the Pope as our Patriarch must rule us by as these Doctors do desire i 1. If this Doctrine be true no wonder that Mr. Thorndike thought we could not justifie our Reformation till we alter the Oath of Supremacy then we are bound in conscience to a Foreign Jurisdiction 2. I have fully proved many great errors and sins to be decreed by many of the Councils by which the Pope as Patriarch must rule us all 3. Is it any easier to do evil In obedience to a Patriarch than a Pope 4. In my last Book against W. Johnson alias Tenet I have fully confuted all that he saith of the universality of Councils and the Patriarchs power over the Abassines and others without the Empire and shewed they were then all but in one Empire as the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury is in England ☜ Page 22. A vain Writer and malicious if not mad and distracted p. 11. he will magnifie the very worst of men if they be of his mind and vilifie the best if they be of another p. 27. He hath full liberty to vie with the Devil himself in his Calumnies with more such
Vicarious or deputed supreme Monarchical Aristocratical or Democratical 2. Accordingly they noted the difference of two sorts of Papists some that set the Pope as superior above Councils others as the Councils of Constance and Basil and the French that make the General Council supreme the Pope being President as the chief of the Patriarchs and having many priviledges as Primate to the Universal Church 3. But that in truth the Catholick governing power of Pope and the other four Patriarchs was but a humane form of Church Policy setled in one Empire as a National kind of Church and the Councils were Universal as to the Empire but not to all the Christian world which I have proved against W. Johnson fully called by the Emperour that had no power over other Nations and subscribed by his subjects 4. That the grand cheat that hath set up Popery is the turning this National Church into an Universal Government of all the Christian world and pretending that Christ or his Apostles set up that power over all which Emperours and Imperial Councils set up only over one Empire 5. We are sworn against Forreign Jurisdiction by the Oath of Supremacy For the Roman Empire is dissolved and if it were not we are no subjects of it 6. Yet we hold that all Christians should live in all possible love and concord counselling and helping one another for the edification of the Church and that such Councils are useful thereto as may be had without more hurt than good But that no Universal governing power besides Christs for Legislation Judgment or Execution is needful to that concord nor is a Government of the whole Christian world by any one Political supreme Pope or Council or Colledg of Pastors or Cardinals any more possible or lawful to be sought than that all the Kingdoms on earth have one humane civil Soveraign though all Kings as well as all Bishops are bound to serve God with the greatest concord that they can attain But now he that will read many late Divines of England will find that they are come to this 1. To take the foresaid Conciliar and French Papists to be no Papists and so to make it a controversie de nomine in which for me let them have their liberty 2 To take it for a necessary thing to believe that the Universal Church in the world hath one supreme governing power under Christ and is a Society that is therein visibly one And 3. That this one ruling power is either a General Council or the Colledg of all Bishops on earth 4. And that the Imperial Church-form was and is to be the true Universal Church form viz. a General Council where the five Patriarchs are by themselves or by consent 5. And that the Pope is President and Principium unitatis and chief Patriarch and so to be obeyed by us 6. And that there is no true way to Universal concord but by being of this one Church so formed and obeying its Universal Laws which they say christ hath given them power to make 7. And that they are Schismaticks and not to be tolerated that do not so consent and obey 8. Yea say some to us in England it is compelled obedience to all the present Impositions which only must cure our divisions without abatement for Union or any Tolerations A great deal more of this nature is built on this principle that the Church in all the earth is one as under one humane supreme Government under Christ and that all are Schismaticks that are not of it and obey it not I am not for disgracing any by the name of Papists that refuse it whether the French and the councils of Pisa Constance and Basil shall be called Papists I contend not But whether those false principles be the only terms of concord wise men will cautelously consider ADVERTISEMENT THere is lately Published a Book of the same Authors called A Search for the English schismatick by the Case and Characters 1. Of the Diocesan Canoneers 2. Of the Present Meer Nonconformists Not as an Accusation of the former but a necessary Defence of the latter so far as they are wrongfully accused and persecuted by them And is to be sold by Nevill Simmons at the Sign of the Three Golden Cocks at the West-end of St. Pauls THE CONTENTS AN Historical Preface Dr. Stillingfleet's judgment as in his Irenicon A Premised explication of the equivocal word Church What the Catholick Church is in our judgment and what in the judgment of many of our silencers Chap. 1. Dr. Stillingfleet's large and plain Asserting of our principles in his Defence of Archbishop Laud and Rom. Idolatry p. 1. Chap. 2. Some Animadversions on his Preface Whether the Jesuits first brought in Spiritual Prayer A full explication of our judgment about Spiritual Prayer His hard terms against mens high or low chusing Tutors for their Children p. 11. Chap. 3. Dr. Stillingfleet his Accusations examined His confusion disputing a question not stated What he means by Our Church by Communion by Constant by Withdrawing by Separate Congregations what Separation I am for or against Whether he say true that my Tremendous aggravations of the sin of Conforming were written without the least provocation on their part or that as designed to represent the Clergy as notorious Lying perjured Villains p. 22. c. Chap. 4. His false History of the old Nonconformists as if Bancroft's Danger Posit Heylin and all such old accusers utterly belyed them and the Canons made against them had a false supposition his citations examined More proof of his falsification The difference between the Nonconformists and the Brownists How we are used by them The Reformatio Legum Eccles how much for discipline I now add my request to the Reader that would know how far the first Reformers were of the Nonconformists mind and against our new Church-men that they would but read Cranmers and the other Drs. words cited by Dr. Stillingfleet in the end of his Irenicon and left out of Dr. Burnet's History and Bucer's Scripta Anglicana De Regno Del his Censura of the Liturgy de cura Anim. c. The story of Dr. Ames Paul Bayne Dr. Fulk c. Dr. Humphrey's Letter to the Bishops p. 55 56 57. Chap. 5. The false Reasonings and accusations of his second part p. 59. My judgment and case stated which he falsly reporteth Others Cases considered Whether it be true That there is no other reason against Communion than was at the first Reformation Difference proved 1. From the things imposed 2. From the design of the imposers 3. From the effects 4. From the case of the Church with whom we Communicate 5. From the additional reasons for our Preaching p. 64. What he would have them do that cannot have room in their Churches p. 70. His appeal to my case at Kederminster shamed p. 71 c. His false supposition that most of my Hearers need not our Teaching because they sometimes hear in the Parish-Churches
all the Anabaptists Independants Presbyterians c. Who never were of their Church to be none of the Separatists here meant But if by withdrawing he mean not joyning in Communion either he meaneth in the whole Communion or but in part If the whole then the many thousands that live in the Parishes and Communicate not in the Sacrament are no members of the Parish Church And who knoweth then who are of their Church And how few in many Parishes are of it that yet pass for Members of the Church of England And yet I that joyn with them am none of it in their account And. 3. What meaneth he by Constant Communion I go to the Parish Church when sickness hindreth not once a day I go to the Sacrament and am none of their Church Thousands go but rarely and thousands scarce at all at least to the Sacrament and these are of their Church and no separatists 4. But perhaps the conjunction is explicative and joyn with separate Congregations for greater purity and Edification If so then he that never joyneth with them nor any other is none of the intended separatists 2. Nor he that goeth to other Churches on other accounts than for purity of Worship and Edification As Papists that go as to the only true Church for the Authority § 3. But the utter ambiguity is in the word separate And that you may understand it he explaineth it by repeating it By separation he means withdrawing to separate Congregations But the doubt is which are the separate Congregations I named many sorts of Lawful and unlawful separations but he will not tell us which he meaneth by any intreaâ—y § 4. I would my self yet that I may be understood tell the reader what sorts of separation I renounce and what I own But I have done it so oft and largely that I am ashamed to repeat it as oft as mens confusion calls me to it The reader who thinks it worth his labour may see it done in my first Plea for Peace and in the Preface to my Cath. Theol. and specially in the beginning of the third Part of my Treat of Concord and in Christ Direct And he calls me here afterward to the same Certainly it is only sinful separation that is in the question and as certainly there are many sorts not sinful I am locally separate from all Churches save that where I am I morally separate from the Roman Church as an unlawful Policy and all other which are in specie against Gods word I separate from some for Heresie as being not capable matter of a Church while they own not all the Essence of Christianity I separate from some as Imposing sin and refusing my Communion without it I separate from some as having no lawful Pastors some being uncapable matter and some being usurpers that have no true call I separate from some only so far as to prefer a better rebus sic stantibus sometime a better as to the Doctrine sometime as to the Worship sometime as to the Discipline sometime and mostly as to the Pastors worth and work some go from their own Parish because the Minister is very ignorant in comparison of another to whom they go some that hear the Minister preach against preciseness and for Ceremonies had rather hear another that calleth them to holiness some that have tollerable Preachers go to Doctor Stilling sleet and Doctor Tillotson as better some go for neerness to another Church Some go from their own Parish because the Minister cuts the Common-prayer too short and Preacheth too long some because they would have it so go to such some because the Parson is an Arminian others because he is contrary Some go to the Minister that is strict in keeping the scandalous from the Sacrament some therefore go from him some remove their Dwellings or Lodgings for these ends and some do not some go from their own Parish for the benefit of the Organs in another And of old when Nonconformists had Parish Churches and used some part of the Liturgy many went to them from their own Parishes Some of these are lawful some are unlawful Most certainly they that go from their own Parishes yea or to Nonconformists Assemblies in London go not all on the same account Nor doth the Doctor and such other separate from me as I am said to do from them but otherwise and much more § 5. If he would first have told us what Separation is sinful secondly and then have proved us guilty of it instead of the confused talk of Separation and a begging the question by suposing that to be sinful which he will neither discribe nor prove such it had been of some usefulness to our conviction But I confess I never liked those Physitians who give their Patients the Medicines that they are best stored with or they can best spare be the disease whatsoever Nor the disputer that poureth out what he is best furnished to say how useless soever to the reader or to the Cause Disputeing should not be like boys playing at Dust point who cover their Points in a great heap of Dust and then throw Stones or Cudgels at it and he that first uncovereth them wins them Dusty heaps of ambiguous words confusedly poured out befriend not Truth that should be Naked nor the reader § 6. Some thought it was the Place called Conventicle houses which made the Conformists call us Separatists and they got oft into Parish Churches and Chappell 's But these were made the worst of separatists and punished the more And doubletss it is not meeting at any of the new Tabernacles nor at the Spittle nor at Sturbridge Fair where Preaching hath long been used nor in a Prison nor at the Gallows to Prisoners and People which are faulty Separation § 7. Some thought that they meant that its want of the Common-prayer that maketh us Separatists and they have tryed and read the Common-prayer in their Assemblys But these have been accused and suffered the more And even Mr. Cheny was forced to fly his Country for reading it and Preaching in an unlicensed meeting And some reading more and some less by this it will not be known who are the Separatists The old Nonconformists in their Parish Churches read some more some less and now some Conformists vary They say a Conformist at Greenwich keepeth up a Common-prayer Conventicle some Conformists are accused for overpassing much One lately suspended for wearing the Surplice too seldom and refusing to pray for our gratious Queen and James Duke of York How much of this goeth to make a Separatist § 8. Some thought it was want of the Magistrates leave that made them call us separatists But when the King Licensed us the accusation was the same yea Mr. Hinkley and many others tell you that they took this for worst of all § 9. Some say it is want of the Bishops Licence But as Mr. Tho. Gouge hath his University Licence and I have Bishop Sheldon's Licence
I think not invalidate and yet this goeth for no justification of us so is it with others § 10. Some think that it is a Conventicle as described by their Cannon that must make us Separatists which is of men that call themselves of another Church But that 's not it Mr. Gouge Mr. Poole Mr. Humphrey and my self and abundance more that never gathered any Church nor called our selves of any other then their own are nevertheless separatists in these mens account § 11. They that remembred what was called Separation in England of old supposed it had these two degrees which made men called Brownists First falsly taking the Parish Ministers and Churches for no true Ministers and Churches of Christ and therefore not to be Communicated with Secondly or in the lower rank falsly taking the faults of the Parish Ministers and Churches to be so great that its a sin to have ordinary Communion with them But they that have still disclaimed both these are Separatists still in our Accusers sence § 12. Some thought that ordinary Communicating in the Parish Churches and pleading for it would prove us no separatists with them But this will not serve as my own and many other mens Experience proveth § 13. I am called after to say more of this The sum of my separation is this First that I take not the Parish Churches to be the only Churches that I must Communicate with and will not confine my Communion to them alone as if they were a sect or All But will also have Communion with Dutch French or Nonconformists 2. I take not the Order Discipline and mode of worship in the Parish Churches nor the Preaching of very many Parsons Vicars and Curates to be the best and most desirable 3. I take those to be no true Political Churches which have no Pastors that have all the Qualifications and Call and Authority which is Essential to the Office and therefore can communicate with them but as with a flock without a Pastor or an Oratory Community or Catechized Company 4. I live peaceably under such Bishops as have many hundred Parishes and no Episcopos Gregis true Bishops and Pastoral Churches under them as they think But I own not their Constitution 5. I joyn with all the Churches in England as Associated for mutual help and Concord in all that the Scripture prescribeth and in all the Protestant Religion and all that all Christian Churches are agreed in and all that is truly needful to the ends of Christianity But not absolutely in all which their Canons Liturgy c. conttaine Especially their sinful Impositions and their Presumtious Canonical Excommunications of dissenters ipso facto 6. I am one of the Christian Kingdom of England as under the King according to the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy and am for obeying the Laws and Rules in all things lawfully belonging to their Power to command But not for obeying them in sin against God nor for believing all to be Lawful because they command it nor for their taking down Family Government or self Government and discerning private Judgment of the subjects This is my measure of separation § 14. And I think in cases that concern our own and many mens Salvation we should have leave freely to speak for our selves and not be used as we are that must neither be endured to be silent or to speak Let this Dr. open our case to you himself saith he Pref. p. 36. Speaking of my first Plea for Peace As though it had been designed on purpose to represent the Clergy of our Church as a Company of Notorious Lying and Perjured Villains for Conforming to the Laws of the Land and orders established among us For there are no less than thiâ—ty tremendous aggravations of the sin of Conformity set down in it and all this done without the 〈…〉 provocation given on oue side And elswhere he saith he shall less regard my aggravations Ans 1. If I do that which you think as bad I would gladly be told of it though false accusations I desire not And impenitence is too soon learnt without a Teacher or Academical degrees and I had rather be saved from it 2. But Reader I once more appeal to the Judgment of all reason and humanity as well as Christianity to decide the case of this Accusation 1. We did in 1660. and 1661. All that we were able by labour petition and yielding as far as we durst for fear of sin and Hell to have been united and lived in Church Concord with the Episcopal party 2. When our labour and hopes were frustrate and two thousand of us cast out of the Ministery and afterwards laws made against us as Conventiclers first for our Fining Imprisonment and then Banishment and after besides Imprisonment to pay twenty pound the first Sermon and forty pound the next and so on when after this the Law that banished us from all Cities Corporations c. and places where we lately Preached did most deeply accuse us as the cause I never wrote so much as the reasons of our dissent When by the execution of these Laws we were by Informers and others used as is well known I was still silent My not conforming shewed my dissent but I durst not so much as once tell them why lest it should more exasperate them 3. At last I was often told that the Bishop that first forbad my Preaching and many others after him oft said to Great men Mr. Baxter keeps up a Schism and yet holds all our conformity lawful save renouncing a rebellious Covenant And I yet continued silent 4. At last they wrote against us that we durst not say that any part of Conformity was sin but only inconvenient 5. Then many pulpits and books proclaim that we against our Consciences kept up a Schism for a baffled cause which we had nothing to say for 6. All this while Lords and Commons used to ask us what is it that you would have and what keepeth you from Conformity In private talk but would never allow us to speak for our selves and give the world or Parliament our reasons 7. Many years together Pulpits and Printed Books of the Clergy cryed out to the Magistrates to execute the Laws against us and as one said set fire to the Fagot and blamed them for not doing it 8. When the King gave us his Licence they were greatly offended as aforesaid 9. At last one great Bishop told me that he would desire the King to constraine us to give our reasons and not keep up a Schism and not tell for what And another greater told me that the King took us to be not sincere that would not give our reasons And all this while I durst not give them as knowing how they would be received 10. When the Bishops kept me from Preaching and gave me leisure I wrote 1. An Apology for our Preaching 2 A Treatise of Episcopacy and divers other such and yet durst not Print them
priviledged peculiar places or little Chapells at least Few Counties had not some Gentlemen that sheltred them The Earl of Huntington kept in Mr. Hildersham at Ashby Mr. Slater and Mr. Ash even in the big Town of Bremicham Mr. Mainwaring kept in Mr. Ball at Whitmore Mr. Knightley kept in Mr. Dod Judge Bromley and his humble holy Lady kept Mr. Brumskill at Sheriff Hales and entertained many more Mr. Nicols c. Sir Richard Graves at Moseley had Mr. Pateman and divers others seldom without a Nonconformist One would think Doctor Stillingfleet should know that his own Patron under whose wing he lived Sir Roger Burgonie was seldom without a Nonconformist at Roxhall in Warwickshire Mr. Hering had long liberty at St. Maries in Shrewsbery Mr. Ford who wrote on the Psalms had the School Lecture there Mr. Atkins at 〈◊〉 kept in to the last even the Lord Dudley favouring him Abundance such I might name Mr. Barnet at Uppington whom I oft heard Catechize Dr. Allestree Mr. Tandy at Bewdley Mr. Langley Mr. Paget Mr. Hind Mr. Lancaster Mr. Rowle Mr. Nicols Mr. Mather Mr. Rathband Mr. Barâ—â—n Mr. Gee Mr. Wright Mr. Smart c. had their liberties for some time And when one Bishop silenced them the next oft gave them liberty as Bishop Bridgman did after Bishop Mortons silencing some and when they were silenced they went oft into another Diocese where they rubd out a year or more and then to another And so were still in some hope of publick liberty And when silenced they used to keepe private fasts And where they lodged to preach on pretense of expounding to as many as they could They obeyed the Bishops as Magistrates but not as Pastors They knowingly broke the Law in their private and publick Ministry They obeyed not the Canons used not much of the Liturgy And many of them did as some do now get into publick Pulpits for a day and away where they were not known § 12. But yet there are more undeniable evidences of the falseness of what he saith he is certain of as the judgment of All the Old Nonconformists One is the known judgement of the Scotch Reformers and the common accusation of the English as being of their mind He that will affirm that the Scotch Presbyterians thought it unlawful to preach or hold Assemblies when forbidden by Magistrates or Prelates will incur a very sharp censure from their own Leaders who have written so many Books which charge them with the contrary and make them Rebels and Seditious for it Such as Bancroft Heylin Beziers and multitudes both old and new especially these last twenty years And though the Nonconformists in England did not justifie all that the Scots did and they that took Knox Buchanan Melvin and such other for very pious men yet thought some words and deeds too rash especially Knox's publick opening the Queens faults in the Pulpit and refusing her offer to come at any time and tell her of them privately yet it s known that in the Rules of Discipline they were mostly of the same judgment And they often joyned in defending the same Cause See their several demonstrations of Discipline and the several Defences of them how little they differed when Bancroft preacht against them at Pauls Cross Feb. 8. 1588. An English man wrote a Brief Discovery of his untruths c. And a Scoth man J. D. Bancrofts rashness in railing against the Church of Scotland printed 1590. And how little differ they if at all and Dr. Reignolds wrote a Letter against it to Sir Francis Knowles printed with Sir Francis Knowles his account to the Lord Burleigh of his Speech in Parliament against the Bishops keeping Courts in their own names as condemned by Law And in many of their writings the English own the Scotch Discipline and Church And yet even these Scots have rejected Brown as a Schismatick and the English Confuter of Bancrofts Sermon tells him Pag. 43 44. Brown a known Schismatick is a Fit man to be one of your Witnesses a-against the Eldership His entertainment in Scotland was such as a proud ungodly man deserved to have God give him and you repentance And Giffords Pagets Bradshaws Brightmans Rathbands Balls c. words against the Brownists proved not them to be against their own doctrine and practice no more than the Scots rejecting Brown proved them against theirs § 13. And another proof is the common doctrine of the Nonconformists of the difference of the Magistrates and the Churches Offices The said confutation of Bancroft hath it pag. 45 and forward and abundance of their publick writings viz. That the Magistrate only hath the power of the Sword and of Civil Government and to restrain and punish Ministers that offend by Heresie or otherwise But that as Preaching Sacraments and the disciplinary use of the Keys are proper to the Ministry so the deciding of Circumstantial controversies about them and about the due ordering of them doth primarily belong to Ecclesiastical Synods Therefore if these Synods were for their Preaching they were not for ceasing it meerly in obedience to the Magistrate that silenced them § 14. And it is proved by the many Volumes which they wrote against the Power of our Diocesans that it was not any Ecclesiastical Authority of theirs which they thought it a sin to disobey § 15. And Mr. Fox a Nonconformist and many more of them own the Doctrine of Wicliff and John Husse and the Bohemians for which the Synods of Constance and Basil condemned them who affirm that it is a heynous sin to give over Preaching because men excommunicate us and that such are excommunicated by Christ § 16. And it is not nothing that the most Learned Conformists agree with them as I have oft cited Bishop Bilsons words that the Magistrate doth not give us our power nor may hinder our use of it but is appointed by God to protect and encourage us and if he forbid or hinder us we are to go on with our work and patiently suffer And even now I believe most of the Leading Clergy think that if a Synod bid us preach and hold assemblies and the King forbid it we are to obey the Synod rather than the King Mr. Thorndike and many others that write for the Church thought so And Mr. Dodvel thinks so even of a particular Bishop The difference then is but this One party giveth this power to a Synod of Bishops and Presbyters perhaps conjoyned and the other to a Synod of Parochial Pastors Doctors and Elders But both agreed that the Magistrates prohibition in that case is not to be obeyed And the Conformists will not take it well if I should say that the Nonconformist are more for obedience to Magistrates than they I still except the Erastians and such as own Dr. Stillingfleets Irenicon § 17. There is a most considerable book called A Petition directed to her most Excellent Majesty shewing a meane how to compound the Civil Dissentions in the Church
Doctrine of the Councils even of Trent it self requiring but the amending of the Clergies lives and the casting by the Schoolmens bold disputes and the restraint of the Popes Government to the Rule of the Canons securing the rights of Kings and Bishops and this he saith will content the peaceable Vincentius wrote a book called Grotius Papizans Saravius in his Epistle upon speach with Grotius laments it as too true His friend Dion Petavius told Mr. Ereskin an honourable person attendant on the King that Grotius resolved to have declared himself for the Church of Rome if he had returned alive from the Journy that he dyed in See Mr. Thorndikes just weights what he was for And how far many Doctors of this Church some yet living have maintained that Grotius principles are not Popery and consequently what such mean by Popery when they disclaim it I need not tell you while so many of them have published it in print And are not Mr. Thorndicks termes of Concord in Councils till the eight hundredth year much like and much more in book aforesaid And surely there is great difference between such Preachings as were like to be the ruin of the begun Reformation by exasperating a Reforming Magistrate and such Preaching as tendeth to stop the revolt of a reformed Nation when Parliaments and the Agents themselves of the revolt proclaim the danger It s true that there was then a greater scarcity of Preachers than now And that was the Nonconformists argument with the Bishops when they pleaded for publick liberty But it s as true that they had far greater hopes of that Liberty which it had been folly to cast away for less But it is not so with us we are a greater number than they and have new Laws to shut us out not only of the Churches but of Corporations and Bishops that will give us no such liberty § 6. And indeed so many were the unlearned Parish Priests and so bad in Queen Elizabeths daies being many of them lately silly Mass Priests that the shame of the Church and the cry of the Protestant people forced the Bishops to tolerate most of the Nonconformists in some publick Church especially those that were moderate and did not publickly oppose them Dr. Humphery was allowed Reigus Professour in Oxford Dr. John Reignolds President of Corpus Ch. Col. Mr. Perkins Lecturer in Cambridge Mr. Paul Bayne after him so Dr. Chadeortoâ— there c. some tell men that these were all Conformists and of the Church And yet I am none that am of the same mind The truth is they were for submitting to kneeling at the Sacrament Surplice and most of the Liturgy rather than cease Preaching But they were against subscription and the English sort of Diocesan Bishops and Government and the imposed use of the Cross as it is in Baptism As Tradition tells us and as you may partly see in Dr. Reynolds Letter to Sir Francis Knowles in Mr. Baynes Diocesans Tryal his Letters and in Fuller and other Histories And Mr. Deering Mr. Greenham Mr. John Fox Mr. Marbury Dudley Fenner Mr. Knewstubs yea I think six or ten to one were endured in publick Churches long before they were hindered And when they were hindered they spake peaceablely and intreatingly and were still in hope of publick Liberty and were oft petitioning or making great Friends to the Bishops to that end much they long obtained and more they hoped for How long Mr. Travers was kept in at the Temple is commonly known § 7. It is neither consistent with my leisure nor the business now in hand nor I suppose the patience of most readers that I should prove this further by a Voluminous transcribing Histories already extant If the Book which Dr. St. citeth called part of a Register be perused he will find 1. That the passage cited by the D. was the reprehension of many Londoners taken at a meeting in an open Hall of a Company which meeting they avowed Is this a proof that they were against such publick meetings or for it When for it they lay in many Prisons 2. That they professed that they forsook not the Publick Churches till their Teachers were silenced and turned out So little doth silencing tend to union 3. That yet these being ordinary Citizens spake many things weakly crying out too rashly of the Rags and Ceremonies of Antichrist But he might have found many things in the Register more worthy his communication For instance 1. The Letter of Dr. Wy In the beginning 2. Dr. Pilkington after Bishop of Duâ—ham his Letter of weighty reasons against silencing the Nonconformists 3. Mr. Edward Deerings answer to the Articles put to him twice with sober and Peaceable words 4. Mr. Greenhams modest and peaceable Apology to the Bishop of Eli against Conformity yet refusing to give his Reasons lest they should provoke till he were constreined as I did seventeen years All which shew that the Nonconformists then were mostly in poslesson of some publick Churches or but newly turned out and in hope of restauration And what is all this to our case of total and peremptory exclusion § 8. And methinks the Doctor should not desire to tempt the Reader that tryeth his citations to read the rest of that Register viz. 1. The harsh usage of Mr. Johnson who dyed in prison driven into too sharp Language by their usage 2. The exceptions of Mr. Crane 3. The Ministers complaint to the Councils 4. Especially the Councils Letter to the Justices on the bâ—balf of the Ministers worthy to be perused at this time 5 A notable Treatise called a Letter to a Londoner against the Legality of the Bishops proceedings 6. The Comons complaint for a Learned Ministry shewing what a shameful sort of men were kept in by the bishops while the Nonconformists were turned out and silenced 7. The practises of the Prelates 8. The Petition to the Queen and that to the Convocation 9. Mr. Marburys conference with the Bishop of London and his Arch-Deacon How the Bishop railed and swore at him and reviled him for desiring that all Parishes should have Preachers as if Homily Readers were not enough And yet Mr. Marbury was so moderate that at last with liberty of interpretation like Chillingworths he conformed 10. Mr. Dudley Fenners defence of the Ministers against Dr. Bridges slanders Written but a month before his death whereas the said Fenner was far from unlearned as his Methodical Theologia shews and was so moderate that Dr. Ames saith he much conformed at last but it seems not enough and he sheweth how the Bishops set themseves against such Preachers 11 Mr. Gawtons troubles 12. Dudley Fenners Counter-poyson or certain form of Eccles Government and its defence 13. The demonstration of of discipline Doth the Dr. believe indeed that these writings signifie that the Nonconformsts of those times thought it a sin to Preach eo nomine because forbidden § 9. They wrote indeed a great deal more against separation than he citeth
is not my case the same We had more than connivence when we had the Kings Licenses and ever since experience tells you that his Clemency hath occasioned a restraint of the Bishops and some connivence from them 2. And if it were the Temples that make the difference let them allow us to preach there and see whether we will refuse it And sure the Conformists that preach in Tabernacles are not Separatists the Parish Teacher of St. Martins now preacheth in the same place which I built to have preached in and for so doing was by a warrant judged to prison They had no more Law on their side than I have they usually read no more of the Liturgy but the Confession and the Scriptures and many not the first at all and some more so that its a full proof that if breaking the Law had been all their stop they would have still preached Sect. 29. Dr. Ames tells us that he had preached without the Bishops consent by this Story fresh Suit p. 409. describing an English Bishops Pastoral work he saith It would be ridiculous for a mean man to desire him to visit him his Wife or Children in sickness he must have a Chaplain not only to do other duties of Religion for him but even to give thanks at his Table I will not here speak of draw up an Excommunication for him take him Pursuivant Jaylor see to your Prisoner but note one example of mine own experience which many others can parallel I was once and but once I thank God before a Bishop and being presented to him by the chief Magistrates of a Corporation to be Preacher in their Town the lowly man first asked them how they durst choose a Preacher without his consent You said he are to receive a Preacher that I appoint you for I am your Pastor though he never fed them And then turning to me How durst you said he Preach in my Diocess without my leave So that without any other reason but meer Lordship the whole Corporation and I were dismissed to wait his leisure which I have done now twenty years and more Much like the usage of holy Paul Bayne Successor to Perkins who being commanded to preach a Visitation Sermon and being sickly and in a sweat with preaching was fain to refresh himself instead of going presently to attend the Bishop and when he was sent for having small Cuffs edged with a little blew thred saith the Bishop How dare you appear before me with those and he suspended him And good Mr. Bayne would never more have to do with a Bishop but said They are an earthly Generation and savour not the things of God When Dr. Fulke a half Conformist went out of St. Johns Colledge in Cambridge with his Pupils hiring Chambers for himself and them in the Town it was as great a separation from the Colledge to avoid the Surplice which he after submitted to as we make from the Church See Ames fresh suit p. 473. And that it was no conscience of obeying the Bishop that Beza would have the Ministers moved by from assembling Judge by these words De notis Eccles Ego pontificiis I willingly leave to the Papists the whole degree of Episcopacy of which I openly say the Holy Ghost was not the Author but humane prudence which if we observe not that God hath cursed certainly we even yet see nothing and we nourish a viper in our bosoms which will again kill the Mother Sect. 30. I will conclude with the recital of the Letter sent to the Bishops by Dr. Humphrey Regius Professor in Oxford who yet constrained used the Surplice after that Our Dr. may note what sence they had then of these things premising only the words of John Fox speaking of Blumfield a wicked Persecutor who threatned a godly man Simon Harelson for not wearing the Surplice Its pity saith he such baits of Popery are left to the enemies to take Christians in God take them away from us or us from them for God knoweth they be the cause of much blindness and strife among men Dr. HUMPHREY'S Letter to the BISHOPS YOur Lordships Letter directed unto us by our Vice-Chancellor although written in general words yet hath so hearted our Adversaries that we are now no more counted Brethren and Friends but Enemies and â—ith the old Mass attires be so straitly commanded the Mass it self is shortly looked for A Sword now is put into the enemies hands of these that under Q Mary have drawn it for Popery and under pretence of good order are ready without cause to bewreck their Popish anger upon us who in this will use extremity in other laws of more importance partiality I would have wished my Lords rather privy admonition than open expulsion yea I had rather have received wounds of my Brother than kisses of mine Enemy if we had privily in a convenient day resigned then neither should the punisher have been noted of cruelty neither the offender of temerity neither should the Papists have accused in their seditious Book Protestants of contention Religion requireth naked Christ to be preached professed glorified that graviora legis by the faithful Ministry of feeding Pastors should be furthered and after that orders tending to edification and not to destruction advanced and finally the Spouses friends should by all means be cherished favoured and defended and not by counterfeit and false intruders condemned and overborn and defaced But alas a man qualified with inward gifts for lack of outward shews is punished and a man only outwardly conformable and inwardly clean unfurnished is let alone yea exalted The painful Preacher for his labour is beaten the unpreaching Prelate offending in the greater is shotfree the learned man without his cap is afflicted the capped man without learning is not touched Is not this directly to break Gods laws Is not this the Pharises vae Is not this to waâ—â— the outside of the Cup and leave the inner part uncleansed Is not this to prefer Mint and Annis to faith aud judgment and mercy Mans tradition before the ordinance of God Is not this in the School of Christ and in the method of the Gospel a plain disorder hath not this preposterous order a woe That the Catechism should be read is the word of God it is the order of the Church to preach is a necessary point of a Priest to make quarterly Sermons is law to see poor men of the poor mens box relieved Vagabonds punished Parishes communicate Rood lofts pull'd down Monuments of Superstition defaced Service done and heard is Scripture is Statute that the Oath to the Q Majesty should be offered and taken is required as well by ordinance of God as of man These are plain matters necessary Christian and profitable To wear a Surplice a Coap or a corner'd Cap is as you take it an accidental thing a device only of man and as we say a doubt or question in divinity Sith now these substantial points
to the Anabaptists and Quakers Answ Alas that such things should be the best to such a man By May go you mean 1. lawfully 2. or eventually 3. or for want of due hindring The Reader may think that you by Calumny father the first on me as if I said that so to go to the Quakers were no sin whereas I still say that if they do but leave your Churches by any culpable Error it is their sin 2. And as to the Event many not only may but do turn Quakers Papists and Athiests 3. And as to the third it 's all the question here not whether we should seek to save them but which is the true reasonable and allowed means Whether it be the Patrons choosing for all England the Pastors to whose care they must trust their Souls and laying them in Jail that will choose others Or whether there be not a righter way And again I say Kings and Patrons choose not mens Wives or Physicians or Food and every man hath a charge of his Soul as well as of his Life Antecedent to the Kings or Patrons charge Sect. 6. But why saith he P. 11. v. 115. must the King bear all the blame if mens Souls be not provided for c Answ He that is the chooser must bear the blame the King for Bishops and the Patrons for Parish Priests if they mischoose And do you think in your conscience that all the Patrons in England of so various minds and lives are like to choose only such in whose pastoral conduct all that care for their Souls should rest Yea though the Bishops must Institute them as they Ordained them When we heretofore told them of the multitudes of grosly ignorant drunken Priest their answers were 1. Their Chaplains examined them 2. They had certificates 3. A quare impedit lay against them if they required higher knowledge than to answer the Catechism in Latine And now experience will not warrant us to know what such men are P. 115. He asketh How it is possible on these terms to have any peace or order in an established Church Answ I have fully told him how in a whole Book of concord And hath their way caused greater peace and order Yes to themselves for the time So Popery keepeth some Order and Unity with them that hold to it But it kept not the Greeks or Protestants from forsaking them Sect. 7. P. 119. 120. He saith They only look on those as true Churches which have such Pastors whom they approve Answ Equivocal words 1. If they approve not those whom they should approve it is their sin 2. Approving is either of the necessaries ad esse or only ad melius esse They must not put the later for the former 3. Approving is by a Governing or but a discerning private Judgment The first they have not but the later In good earnest would he have all the people take those for true Pastors who they verily think are none Can they at once hold contradictions And if they must not judge as dissenters what meaneth Mr. Dodwels and such mens Arguments to prove all no Ministers that have not Succession of Episcopal Ordination Must not the people on that account disown them by his way Sect. 8. p. 119. He brings in against us my words I take those for true Churches that have true Pastors and those for none that have 1. Men uncapable of the Pastoral Office 2. or not truly called to it 3. Or that deny themselves the essential Power Answ He knoweth that I speak not of equivocal but proper political Churches And is it possible that such a man should dissent in this 1. Can he be a true Pastor that is uncapable of the Office Shall I abuse time to confute gross Contradictions Or if he be a profest Infidel Can he be a Christian Pastor 2. Is a Layman a true Pastor that is not truly called to it why then do they argue as Mr. Dodwell or Re-ordain men 3. Can a man be a Pastor against his will or that conâ—enteth not but renounceth it or can that be a true Pastoral Church that hath no Pastor Verily we are but upon low works if these be the things which we must prove Sect. 9. He adds And one or other of these he thinks must if not all the parochial Churches in England fall under Answ I read these words of the Dr. to a Papist To speak mildly this is a gross untruth Therefore I hope it were no Rage for me to have said the like How doth he prove it Nay in the place cited by him I not only profest the contrary but gave the Reason p. 65. Because I judge of their Office by Gods Word and not by the Rule which deprives them of an essential Part. And 1. He citeth my confession that those that I hear preach well and therefore are not uncapable men 2. That their Ordination hath all essentially necessary and all the worthy men that I know have the communicants of the Parishes consent though not Election and therefore are called 3. And many of them as he thinks they have all essential to the Office and disown it not though I think others deny it them where there is the truth of what he saith Sect. 10. p. 120. Because my practice disproveth him he finds out a Subtilty that I joyn not with the Parish Churches as true Churches but only as Chappels or Oratories he accounts not our parochial Churches as true Churches nor doth communicate with them as such a Subtilty beyond the reach of the old Brownists Answ Deliberately to print such untruths seems tolerable in him but to say they are such would seem passion in me and what other answer are they capable of What I expresly say of the three forementioned excepted sorts he feigneth me to say of all or most of the Parish Churches and yet dare not deny the truth of any one of the Exceptions 1. Do not all those men take the Parishes for no proper political Churches but only for Parts of the Diocesan Church such as we call Curates Chappels who say that a Bishop is a constitutive Part of a true political Church and entereth the Definition and that it 's no Church that hath no Bishop and that Diocesan Churches are the lowest political And do I need to tell him how considerable these men are among them 2. Doth he himself take any one of these for a true political Church When I was young divers Laymen by turns were our publick Reading Teachers Among the rest one was after proved to counterfeit Orders This mans acts were no nullities to us that knew it not but when we knew of such must we take them for true Pastors and it for a true Church Sect. 11. p. 221. He saith Any Parochial Church that hath such a one a Bishop or Pastor over them that hath the power of the Keys and owns it self to be Independant he allows to be a true Church and none else Answ
More and more untruths 1. Where do I say that owns it self to be Independant as if that were necessary to its being 1. Doth he not confess that I own general Visitors or Archbishops and appeals 2. That I own Associations which he makes the state of the Church of England 3. That I own Synods for obliging concord 4. That I own the Magistrates Government of all Is there no dependancy in any of these or all what dependancy more doth he assert 2. As to the Power of the Keys dare he come into the light and tell us whether any power of the Keys that is of the Government of his particular Church be essential to the Pastor of a true organized governed Church or not If not is it not a contradiction to call it a governed Church If yea then is he a Pastor that wants what is essential to a Pastor But if they will call a forcing Power or the present secular Mode of their Courts by the name of the Keys I never said that these are essential to a Church nor desirable in it but am a Nonconformist because I will not by Oath or Covenant renounce just Endeavours to amend it Sect. 12. p. 121 122. The next Accusation is They leave it in the peoples Power notwithstanding all legal Establishments to own or disown whom they judge fit Answ He tireth me with putting me on repetitions 1. They can unjustly judge of none and disown them without sin It is not I that give men power to sin no more than Power to die or be sick which is but impotency would I could give them power against it 2. It is not power to reject any chosen by King or Patrons from being publick Teachers or to have the Tithes and Temples nor to be a Pastor to others But it is to have a discerning Judgment whether one chosen by the Patron be a person to whom he himself ought to trust the pastoral Conduct of his Soul Either the Dr. thinks that Laymen have this discerning power and duty or not If yea is it nothing to him to seem thus seriously to plead against his conscience If not I ask him 1. What meant Christ and his Apostles to call men to beware of false Teachers to avoid the Leven of their Doctrine to mark them and avoid them and turn away from them and not bid them good speed 2. What meant all the ancient Churches to forbid Communion with Hereticks and even some Popes and Councils to hear Mass of Fornicators â— What meant all those Fathers and Councils that make him no Bishop that cometh not in with the peoples consent if not Election 4. Why will he not be intreated to tell us in what Countries or with what Limitations the contrary Doctrine must be received Must all the people trust only such Pastors as the Prince or Patrons choose all over England or also in Ireland France Spain Italy Germany among Lutherans Calvinists Greeks c. supposing the Law be on that side Must we all be of the Kings or Patrons Religion 5. Is this agreeable to his old Doctrine cited Chap. 1. Sect. 13. p. 122. He adds Mr. Baxter speaks his mind very freely against the Rights and Patronage and the Power of the Magistrates in such Cases and pleads for the unalterable Rights of the people as the old Separatists did Ans Is this true 1. What is it against the Right of Patronage or Magistrates Power for me to choose who I will trust the guidance of my Soul with while I contradict not his power to choose publick Teachers and give the Tithes and Temples and confess that for order sake I ought to consent to such as he chooseth thus unless he put on me a true necessity of a better choice If the King choose all the Hospital Physicians what wrong is it to him if I at my own charge choose a better for my self when I think else ignorance or malice will murder me Doth he that desireth as I ever do that in so great a case there may be many Locks to the Church Door deny any one of them viz. The Ordainers consent the Magistrates and Patrons and the Peoples Is this the same that the old Separatists did Should Glocesier take Goodman a Papist for their Bishop because the King chose him Abundance of Patrons in the beginning of Q. Elizabeths Reign presented Papists It seems if they were imposed by Law and Patrons you would have the people submit to those that cry down Bishops Liturgy and Ceremonies too Father Paul Sarpi translated by Dr. Denton will tell you how new a way this is Sect. 14. p. 122. He adds The People are made Judges of the Competency of their Ministers Answ They are discerning Judges Doth not your charge imply that you think otherwise and yet you dare not say so Must they not judge when Forreigners heretofore were set over them whether they speak English or no or if a Socinian deny Christs Godhead or the im mortality of the Soul whether he be Competent or not Or if they have an ignorant Curate that when necessary advice for the Soul is asked of him will say no more but Trouble not your head about such matters but cast away care and live merrily If when the blind lead the blind both fall into the ditch must we not note the difference Alas how little would some men have a man care for his Soul in comparison of caring what Physick what Food what Wife what Servant what Trade he chooseth Trust one to the conduct of such as all the Patrons of England will choose for you but not any of the other As to the not causeless forsaking former Pastors he knoweth that it was the strict charge of the old Canons of the Churches and the Bishops themselves do hold the same I thought they ought not to be forsaken because men thrust them out The Churches at Antioch Alexandria and many more did oft and long cleave to those Pastors whom the Christian Emperors cast out and reject those whom they imposed When I have proved this so fully in my first Plea and Church-history what an unsatisfactory answer is it for such a Dr. to repeat it and say This is plain dealing Is the Judgment and Practice of the Churches so light with him Sect. 15. p. 123. The next charge is They give directions to the people what sort of Ministers they should own and what not Answ We do so And I had thought all Christians had been of the same mind It 's sad with the Church when this Doctrine needeth a publick defence Dare he say that all imposed must be owned Then either Salvation is at the Magistrates will or it 's the priviledge of such Countries as have good ones or a man may be saved in any Country Religion contrary to the Article which they all subscribe Sect. 16. Next the Accuser falls on my general Rule The Ministry that tendeth to Destruction more than to Edification and to do
Is his Rule true only in England or in France Spain Italy Muscovy c. also or where that the Law maketh men true Pastors Sect. 28. But p. 132. he said that he detesteth the Principles that set mans Laws above Gods and that in stating the Controversie he supposed an Agreement in all the Substantials of Religion between the dissenting parties of our Church Answ Of all things you are the unhappiest in stating the Controversie The Instances here were 1. Insufficiency through Ignorance 2. Heresie 3. Malignant oppugning the very ends of the Ministry 4. No true calling 1. Doth he agree with us in all the Substantials of Religion who knoweth not the very essentials of Christianity Ignorantis non est Consensus 2. Doth he agree with us in all the substantials that is a Heretick or if we falsly judge his opinion Heresie do we agree with him 3. Is malignant opposing Godliness and pleading for prophaneness or ungodliness an agreement in all the Substantials 4. What if we agree in all Substantials with an unordained Layman imposed on us is he therefore our true Pastor 5. But how shall we know whether we agree or not if we are no judges of it Do you not see your own Contradictions who shall judge whether the Pastors or People agree shall the Prince or Patron If you know the Teachers heart how know you the Peoples Must we believe that we agree because you say so If the people must judge whether they Agree they must judge of the things in which the Agreement is that is both the Pastors Doctrine and their own minds And is not this to judge whether he be a Heretick c. or not And who shall judge whether the disagreement be in Substantials It must be the agreers And they must be wiser than I if they can learn from you here what is a Substantial and how to know it Sect. 29. It may be he will say that where Princes and Parliaments are Orthodox none are Usurpers but true Pastors whom they impose Ans But doth not this make the people Judges whether Princes and Parliaments are Orthodox and is not that as dangerous as to judge of the Teachers And Orthodox Princes and Parliaments may impose Heretical Teachers and may by Law enable Patrons and Prelates to impose them What more natural than to propagate what men like and oppose what they hate If the many hundred Patrons in England be all orthodox and pious and free from Schism c. we are strangely happy If not we may expect that they choose accordingly But the Bishops will secure us Ans 1. They have not done 2. They say they cannot by Law 3. Would it be any wonder if Bishop Goodman of Glocester kept not out any Popish Teacher Or if such Fathers of the Church as Archbishop Bromhall let in such as would have the Pope Govern us all by the Canons as Patriark and principium unitatis and all pass for Shoismaticks that consent not to such a forreign Jurisdiction contrary to our National Oaths Sect. 30. As to his instance of Solomons putting out Abiathar c. I answered it fully and many more objections in my first Plea and will not write the same again for him that thinks it not worth the answering or taking notice of Sect. 31. When p. 138 139. he makes it the way to all imaginable Confusions to deny 1. that the Kings Nomination of Bishops 2. and the Patrons of Parish Pastors proveth them no Usurpers but true Pastors is he not an unreverend dishonourer of Bishops himself who maketh them all that for a thousand years held the same that I do to be the authors of all imaginable Confusion Is he not unreverend to their Canons and to antiquity and to the universal Church itself Whatever in his third part he Cavils against it he cannot be so strange to Church-history as not to know that they were commonly against him Sect. 32. The matter of the next accusation is p. 139 140. having said Plea p. 41. 42. If any make sinful terms of Communion by Laws or Mandate imposing things forbidden by God on those that will have Communion and expelling those that will not so sin I add If any should not only excommunicate such persons for not complying with them in sin but also prosecute them with Malice Imprisonments Banishment or other Persecution to force them to transgress this were heynous aggravated Schism Ans And is not this true or doth his bare repeating it disprove it Is he a zealous Enemy of Schisin that taketh all this for none I did not steal it out of his defence of Archbishop Laud but less than this is there made Schism Yet he tells us that he sets not mans Laws above Gods nor pleads for Persecution But lest the repeating of my words should shame the Accuser he hath two handsome devices 1. He puts complying with them in sin that is Conformity as refused instead of those that will not so sin in sinful terms of Communion forbidden by God c. 2. He forgeth an addition as mine and therefore it is no sin to separate from such when I have no such words being only there telling what is Schism and not what is not I confess it will sound odly to say It is Schism not to communicate with those who excommunicate imprison and banish me by Law if I will not do that which God forbids and they make a Condition of my communion For I must not sin And in prison and Banishment under Excommunication they deny me communion And yet I say not that it 's always faultless For if they do not execute their own Law in some cases where publick good requireth it I may best communicate with them as far as they permit me without the imposed sin till they do execute them But this excuseth not their Schism Sect. 33. p. 140. He blames me as charging him with the silencing design Ans I did warn him in real desire of his safety If defending the Church-Laws and Endeavours for our restraint in the words to which I refer the Reader If preaching and writing against our preaching as Schism and all the rest in his Books do signifie no owning of our silencing I am glad that he meaneth better than he seemeth who could have thought otherwise that had read 1. his first Q. whether it be not in the power of those that give orders to limit and suspend the exercise of the ministerial Function Q. 2. And whether the Christian Magistrate may not justly restrain such Ministers from preaching who after the experience do refuse to renounce those Principles which they judge do naturally tend to involve us again in the like trouble And Serm. p. 42. the Church of Englands endeavours after Uniformity is acquitted from Tyranny over the Consciences of men by the Judgment c. And p. 54. condemning them as hard thoughts of the Bishops that in cruelty they follow Ithacius c. And in this new Book
comes to the point in question whether they have the Pastoral Power of the Keys over their own Flocks And 1. He saith One would think the objector had never read over the office of Ordination for them For the Epistle is read the Charge given by St. Paul to the Elders at Miletus Act 20 or the third Chapter of 1 Tim. concerning the Office of a Bishop What a great Impertinency had this been c Ans This is like the rest I must not suppose that he never read it himself See Reader whether any of this be true Indeed heretofore it was in the Book of Ordination but we shewed the Bishops that thence Bishop Usher in his Reduction argued that the Presbyters have some conjunct Power with the Bishops to govern their own particular Flocks and some true Pastoral Power of the Keys I was one that oft urged it on them And they told us that the Bishop was the Pastor and they but his Curates and to confute us put out both these parts of Scripture from the Book which he saith are in it so that neither of them is there And presently they also put out the very name of Pastor given to Parish Ministers in almost all places of the Liturgy Doth not all this shew their mind Sect. 17. Next he tells us of the Bishops Exhortation calling them the Messengers Watchman Pastors and Stewards of the Lord. Ans It was so in the old Book But the word Pastors here also is purposely put out to shew their judgment Is this just dealing And doth it not confute himself 3. He tells us of the Promise to Minister Doctrine Sacraments and Discipline Ans The truth is neither in the exhortation nor collation of Orders is there any mention of any power given him to govern but only to administer the Word and Sacraments and thus far the people are called his charge But in the question Discipline is named thus as the Lord hath commanded and as this Church and Realm hath received the same according to the Commandements of God so that 1. The Priest hereby owneth that as it is received in this Church and Realm it is according to Gods Commandments and 2. Then promiseth so to use it which is 1. To be an Accuser 2. And as a Cryer to publish the Bishops or Lay-Chancellors Excommunication and Absolutions This is the promisé Sect. 18. And what if the name of Government or the Keys had been put in when it is denyed in its essential part I have proved out of Cousins Tables Zouch and the Canons and actual Judgment and Practice of the Bishop that Government or Jurisdiction is denyed to them And instanced in many and most acts in which it doth consist in my Treatise of Episcopacy And this being my question whether the English frame depose not the ancient Churches which had every one their own Pastor with the power of the Keys and so the ancient Offices and Discipline I am not now concerned about the General Archiepiscopal Power of the Diocesans Sect. 19. p. 269. He saith that while the Apostles lived it is probable there were no fixed Bishops or but few Ans Mark this Reader 1. If so then while they lived there were but twelve or thirteen Bishops in the World if any And were then no more Churches that had governing Pastors 2. Then if it cannot be proved that the Apostles were fixed Bishops but ambulatory Apostles there were none in the World in their times 3. Then the Angels of the seven Churches were Apostles reprehended by Christ or meer Presbyters or of the few excepted Bishops Why then doth he himself elsewhere argue that there were Bishops then because these Cities were Metropoles 4. See what concord is between the chief Doctors of the Church of England Dr. Hammond saith that it cannot be proved that there were any Presbyters but Bishops in Scripture times and supposeth the Episcopal Party of his mind This Dr. saith It 's probable there were no fixed Bishops or but few And so they differ 1. Of the sence of the Texts that mention Presbyters and Bishops 2. And about the guidance of the Churches de facto in those times 3. And if the Arpostles were not fixed Bishops of single Churches they have no Successors as such If they were we must have but twelve or thirteen Bishops as their Successors in the World And which be those Seats and how prove they their claim Sect. 20. To prove the Parish Ministers Pastoral Power p. 272. he tells us of that he is judge of the Qualification of those that are to be confirmed Ans 1. Had I ever taken a Parish Charge under them I would have taken more advantage from the new Rubrike about this than any thing else and then the Bishops intended But 1. There is not one of a multitude confirmed and desire of Confirmation proveth not any understanding of Christianity 2. And if the Minister doubt whether they be Ready or capable they may refuse to give him any account 3. He is to send in the names of such as he judgeth fit But 1. it 's only when the Bishop Summons them 2. And the Bishop is no way obliged to confirm no more than the Priest approveth of To prove this 1. Their ordinary practice is to confirm without the Curates hands 2. When the Kings Declaration was debated at Worcester House 1661 before the K. Lords Bishops and Ministers I laboured almost only for this that day to have got in the word Consent of the Minister of the Parish for such as should be Confirmed supposing that one word would have partly restored the Parish Pastors power and so have made our Bishops tolerable Archbishops that if possible we might have been healed But the Bishops rejected it with all their might and got the King to refuse it But because I laid so great a stress on it the Lords and others that were to collect and publish the Concessions when we were gone put it in for that time and at the Convocation the Bishops cast it all away Did they not tell us then their sence And they call him only the Curate of the Parish and not the Pastor And 4. If this were practicable some good men would practice it at least this Doctor himself But I never heard of one that pre-examined his Communicants whether they were ready and willing to be Confirmed 5. And if he did he would keep away many fit Persons that scruple our sort of Confirmation 6. And what is all this to the many thousand Noncommunicants who quietly remain members of your Churches Sect. 21. As to his words p. 275. of power to keep the scandalous from the Sacrament I have in so many books proved it next to none and utterly insufficient that I will not wast time to repeat all here Sect. 22. He tells me that in Can. 26 is not in Reformatio Legum Eccles Ans But I have before told him how much more and better is which would go
am glad I understand you § 12. Saith he Quest By what way this National consent is to be declared By the Constitutions of this Church the Arch-Bishops Bishops and Presbyters summoned by the King 's Writ are to advise and declare their judgments in matters of Religion which received and enacted by Parliament there is as great a National consent as to any Law And all the Bishops Ministers and People make up this National Church Answ Now we are come to the bottom And 1. Our question is of the Constitution of the Church and the Doctor tells us the Administration makes it To consult and advise and make Laws are acts of Administration and follow the Constitution Men must have Power before they use it and must be a Church before they act 〈◊〉 Church 2. Yea to Advise and Consult are not so much as acts proper to administring Government but belong to those that are no Governours also 3. If they be no Laws till the Parliament make them such then either the Parliament are your Church Head or you have none that 's Ecclesiastical But having your plain Confession that you have no such Regent part and so are no Church Political save Civil but a meer Association I ask § 13. 1. Why do you pretend that we are none of the Church of England or that we vent our spleen against it or deny it who deny not Associated Churches in England under one Civil Government 2. How unhappily are the Church-Defenders and Conformists disagreed Read Mr. Dodwell and many such others that take the Church to be a Governed body Politick and see what they will judg of you 3. Are not you and I liker to be of one Church of England who agree what it is than you and those Bishops and Doctors that speak of two different things and agree not so much as what it is 4. Have you not brought your Defence of the Church of England to a fair issue by denying that there is any such Church in the questioned political sense 5. What made you before talk of being under one Government If you meant only Civil Is your Governed Church as such only Civil or a Kingdom only 6. Do you not now absolve all men from the duty of obeying the Church of England aâ— such and from all guilt of disobeying them How can men Govern that are no Governours and how can we obey them It 's only the Civil power then that we herein disobey If you say that all the Bishops are Governours and altogether govern the whole I answer Yes per partes but not as a whole or Church If twenty Families in a Village agree as Masters and Servants to go one way as Consenters this maketh no one Government of the Village If the Physicians of London consent to one Pharmacopeia that maketh them not a body Politick If twenty Sea Captains consent to go one Voyage by one rule each one is a Governour of his own Ship but this maketh no Government of the whole All the Justices and Mayors of England rule the Kingdom per partes by the same Law But all together make not one Aristocracy to Govern the Kingdom as One whole Unless your Bishops c. are United in One persona Politica or Aristocracy they may rule their several Churches but they make not one common Government for the National Church as such An agreement of the Emperour Spaniard and other Confederates make not one Kingdom or body Politick 7. How can they be Schismaticks for disobeying them that are not their Governours 8. How come Dissenters bound by Parliament consent If it never was in their minds to trust them as Consenters for them yea and declare their own dissent as most of the Nation did lately against Prelacy and Liturgy yea and their chosen representatives Have such representatives more power to express our consent than we our selves 9. You unhappily erre with Hooker in your popular Politicks if you think that the Laws bind us only because we consent to them by our Representatives or that as such they make them Whereas it is as by Consenting in the Constitution they are made part of the Rullers or Legislators and not meerly as if we made the Laws by them 10. And as to Convocation consent how binds it all those that never consented to them How is the City of London so bound to Conform when they had not one chosen Clerk but only the Dignitaries in the Convocation that made us our Conformity the two chosen by them being refused by the Bishops 11. Will not you pass for an asserter of the Principles of Independency that not only say The Keys are given to the whole body and the Convocation represent the People c. but also that England is one Church but by consent without consenting to any one Constitutive Regent Church head The Independants are for a National Church meerly by confederacy and consent without National Government of it 12. You go further from the Episcopal Politicks than the Presbyterians do For they make an Aristocratical Regent Part but you make none 13. I doubt some Statesmen will be angry with you that say there is no power of Church Government in England but from the King as Head as Crumptâ—â— before Cousins Tables and others ordinarily 14. Do you make England in essentials any more one Church than England and any Foreigners agreeing are one Did the Synod of Dâ—rt make us one with them Do large Councils make many Nations one Church Did the Heptarchy make England one Kingdom when seven Kings Governed the whole by parts but none the whole as such 15. I beseech you think what you have done against the Parochial Diocesane and Provincial Churches in England Have none of these have not each of these a Regent Constitutive part Are none of them true Churches in sensu politico You dare not say No. If they are You have said that visible Churches as Parts unavoidably require a visible Head to the whole by which I bring in the Pope because you think Christ will not serve the turn And do you not say that all these Churches are parts of the Church of England And if you deny it to have one Regent part do you not then either destroy the rest or use the name Church equivocally to these several sorts so heterogeneal 16. I pray you tell us from whom our Arch-bishops receive their power If you say from the Bishops and so Inferiours or Equals may give power why may not Presbyters make Presbyters or Bishops and generare speciem If it must come from Superiours the Church of England hath none such 17. If the Peoples consent can make a National Church why may it not make an Independant or Presbyterian Church 18. If the Nations consent as such make the Church of England it is not made by Legislative power of King and Parliament 19. Do the Clergy represent the King or is he none of the Church 20. How prove you that the
after against the Emperours negative voice in the confirmation of Popes 2. And his negative in Investing Bishops But even in this strife the Election was confest to be in the Clergy the People chusing or freely consenting and no man to be made their Bishop against their will and it was but the Investiture per bâ—culum annulum as a confirmation which the Emperours claimed § 14. I have formerly named elder Testimonies not denied I will now recite but some Canons of Councils 1. The 9th and 10th Canons of the first great Nicene Council nullifieth the very Ordination of scandalous uncapable men And in the Arab. Can. 4. Si populo placebit is made a condition of the Episcopal relation And c. 5. in case of the Peoples disagreement the said People must take the most blameless 2. The Roman Council said to be under Silvester of 275 Bishops saith No Bishop shall Ordain any Clerke nisi cum omni adunatâ Ecclesia but with all the Church united If this Council be not certain the very forgers shew the Antiquity of the Churches right and custom 3. I before named a Council at Capua that decreed that the two Bishops at Antioch chosen by their two Churches should live in Love and Peace 4. Chrysostom's Church of Joannites would rather separate than forsake their chosen Bishop or his honour though Emperour Council and Patriarch was against him and though Cyril Alex. wrote that their breach of Canons was intolerable and to tolerate them a few stubborn Nonconformists would but discourage the obedient 5. Even the famous Pope Caelestine who helpt Austin against the Pelagians Decreed Let no man be given a Bishop to the unwilling Let the sense and desire of the Clergy the Laity and Magistracy ordinis be required or necessary 6. How the people deposed Theodosius Bishop of Synada and chose another and the change approved I have elsewhere shewed 7. After Atticus death the Clergy at Constantinople were for Philip or Proclus but the people chose Sisinnius and prevailed 8. Sisinnius sent Proclus to be Bishop at Cyzicum but the people refused him and chose another 9. The Orleance Council an 540. Can. 3. decreeth about Ordaining Bishops Qui praeponendus est omnibus ab omnibus eligatur as of old viz. Let him be chosen by all who is to be set over all 10. An. 541. The Concil Avern decree c. 2. That none seek the sacred Office of a Bishop by Votes but by merit nor seem to get a Divine Office rebus sed moribus and that he ascend to the top of that eminent dignity by the election of all and not by the favour of a few and that in chusing Priests there be the greatest care because c. Therefore another Council at Orleance decreed that a Bishop must be ordained in his own Church which he must oversee 11. Another Orleance Council decree c. 10 That none get a Bishoprick by gifts or seeking but with the will of the King by the election of the Clergy and the Lay-people And Can. 11. And as the ancient Canons have decreed Let none be made Bishop to an unwilling People or without the Peoples consent Nor let the People or the Clergy be inclined to consent by the oppression of persons in power a thing not lawful to be spoken But if it be otherwise done let the Bishop be for ever deposed c. 12. I have formerly cited Pope Gregory I. his express Decrees herein 13. Clodovâ—us his Council at Cabilone renewed the old Decree That all Ordination of Bishops be null which was otherwise made than by the election of the Com-Provincials the Clergy and the Citizens 14. The General Council called Quinosextum an 692. decreed Can. 22. That Bishops and Priests Ordained with Money and not by Examination and Election be deposed Though the same Council by humane wisdom decreed Can. 38. That whatsoever alteration the Imperial power maketh on any City the Ecclesiastical Order also follow it The way by which Humane Order overthrew Divine Order and Institutions 15. And by the way you may conjecture of the Chusers by the Council of Toletane an 693. under King Egica where the King Preaching to the Bishops as was then needful decreeth That every Parish that hath twelve Families have their proper Governour But if it have less than twelve it shall be part of another's charge 16. K. Pepin who advanced the Pope to advance himself and added the Sword to Excommunication by mischievous decree yet altered not the common way of Election and decreeth that every City like our Corporations have a Bishop and none meddle in another's Diocess without his consent 17. The choice of Pope Constantine the humiliation of Stephen and many such instances shew that even at Rome still the People had the greatest hand in chusing the Pope and that to Communicate with a Bishop irregularly chosen was taken for a great sin And when Charles Mag. was gratified as to the Papal Chair it was but by making him a necessary Confirmer 18. The French Constitutions l. 1. c. 84. objected about this by Baronius and Binius say Not being ignorant of the sacred Canons we consented to the Ecclesiastick Orders to wit that Bishops be chosen by the Election of the Clergy and People according to the Statutes of the Canons out of their own Diocess without respect of persons or rewards for the merit of their life and their gift of wisdom that by example and word they may every way profit those that are under them 19. The old Canons gathered by Pope Adrian and sent to Charles Magn. recorded by Canisius depose a Bishop Presbyter or Deacon guilty of Theft Fornication or Perjury And Can. 28. A Bishop who obtaineth a Church by the secular power shall be deposed And Can. 33. That no one pray with Hereticks or Schismaticks Ex conc Sard. Can. 2. A Bishop that by ambition changeth his seat shall not have so much as Lay Communion at his end That no Bishop be above three weeks in another City nor above two weeks from his own Church Can. 17. A Bishop contradicted by opposers shall not after be ordained or purged by only three Bishops but by many And Can. 94. The people converted from Heresie by another Bishop may be of his flock without removing their Parish dwelling where another is Bishop Amongst the other 80 Canons against oppression as one is That no Bishop judge any Priest without the presence of his Clergy it being void if not so confirmed So another is against all foreign Judgment because men must be judged by those that are chosen by themselves and not by strangers And none of the Clergy must be condemned till lawful Accusers be present and the Accused answer the Charge 20. The second General Council at Nice though by servility they were for Images held to the old Church-Canons for Elections saying Can. 3. Every Election of a Bishop Priest or Deacon which is made by Magistrates shall remain void by the
Canon which saith If any Bishop use the secular Magistrates to obtain by them a Church let him be deposed and separated and all that Communicate with him How much more say these than my intolerable indiscretion I fear some will think that all this binds them to more separation than I am for The 15 Can. forbids them to have two Churches Can. 4. condemneth those to Lex talionis as unsufferably mad that faultily drive any from the Ministry and segregate them from the Clergy or shut up the Temples forbidding God's worship 21. By the way a Council at Chalons under Charles Magn. finding some Prelates setting on foot an Oath of Obedience to them thus condemn it It is reported of some Brethren Bishops that they force them that they are about to Ordain to swear that they are worthy and will not do contrary to the Canons and will be obedient to the Bishop that Ordaineth them and to the Church in which they are Ordained which Oath because it is very dangerous we all ordain shall be forbidden which other Councils after repeat yet our Bishops rest much on such an Oath of obedience to them 22. What the Electing Churches were may be partly conjectured from the Concil Regiaticin in Canisius Can. 6. That the Arch Presbyters examine every Master of a Family particularly and take account of their Families and lives c. A Council at Soisons about 852. a Presbyter by the King's Command being Ordained to the Church of Rhemes irregularly Decree That they that are made Presbyters without examination by ignorance or by dissimulation of the Ordainers when they are known shall be deposed because the Catholick Church defendeth that which is irreprehensible c. 23. An. 855. under Lotharius Rennigius Lugd. and others at a Council decreed because that bad King had by imposing corrupted the Clergy That because Bishops were set over the Cities that were untryed and almost ignorant of Letters and unlike the Apostolick prescript script by which means the Ecclesiastical vigor is lost they will petition the King that when a Bishop was wanting the Canonical Election by the Clergy and the People may be permitted that men of tryed knowledg and life and not illiterate men blinded by covetousness may be set Bishops over the Flocks 24. An. 857. Pope Nic. 1. is chosen by the Emperour Ludovicus consent and by All the People And he so far maketh the People self-separating judges as to decree Tit. 11. c. 1. That none hear the Mass of a Priest whom he knoweth undoubtedly to have a Concubine or sub-introduced Woman And Can. 2. That by the Canons he cannot have the honour of Priesthood that is faln into Fornication 25. An. 1050 or thereabout one of the worst of Popes at a Council at Rhemes was constrained to confirm the old Canon That no man be promoted to Church Government but with the election of the Clerks and the People c. 26. An. 1059. Again a Roman Council forbidding all men to joyn with a fornicating Priest maketh them so far separating judges 27. About An. 1077. A Council at Rome reneweth the Canon nulling all Ordinations made aus pretio precibus aut obsequio or that are not made by the common consent of Clergy and People for such enter not by Christ c. 28. From hence the Popes grew to usurp most of the power in chusing Bishops to themselves by degrees till they got Councils to judg it Heresie for Emperours to claim so much as a confirming investiture Whence bloody Wars rose And it 's greatly to be noted that yet these Emperours supposed the Bishops elected by the Clergy and People and claimed but the said investiture as is seen in the formula of Pope Paschals Grant of investitures to them 29. When they made Princes Investiture Sacrilege and entring by them they so far made the People judges of Priests and Communion as in a Council at Benevent an 1087. sub Vict. to decree That if no Catholick Priest be there it 's righter to persist without visible Communion and to Communicate invisibly with the Lord than by taking it from an Heretick to be separated from God For what concord hath Christ and Belial And Simoniacks are Infidels 30. But were good and bad Bishops in all Ages thus minded or was it only Popes I next add that it was one of the Articles charged against Wickliffe the Reformer as before against Wecelo who contemned their Excommunications That they that give over Preaching or hearing Gods word for mens Excommunications are Excommunicate and in the day of judgment shall be judged traitors to Christ Art 13. in Conc. Const Reader are we not in a hard strait between Wickliffe and Dr. Stillingflect 31. The same is one of the Articles against John Hus That men must not for Excommunications give over preaching We grant that they mean unjust ones 32. This became one of the great Controversies with the Bohemians against whom one of the four long Orations were made at Conc. Basil They would never yield that their chosen Ministers should obey the Silencers 33. Lastly the Romans themselves oft deereed That a simoniacal election even of the Pope is plainly null and conferreth no right or authority to the elected though this certainly overthroweth the uninterruptedness of their own Succession And how Popes were elected till the device of Cardinals is well known § 15. If all this be not enough to prove the constant consent of the Christian Churches down from the Apostles for the necessity of the Flocks consent to the relation of the Bishop and Pastors to them Let him that would have more read all that Blondel hath produced de jure plebis in regim Eccles § 16. I shall next prove the said necessity from the nature of the thing the work and benefit and the common nature interest and reason of mankind if more light will not put out the eyes of some unwilling men that are loth to know what they cannot easily be ignorant of And 1. Propriety is in order of nature antecedent to Regiment which supposeth it and is to order the use of it for common safety and good 2. As a mans propriety in his Members Children acquisitions is antecedent to Regiment so much more in his soul which is himself 3. Nature obligeth all to care for their lives but yet those must sometime be hazarded for publick good But the obligation to please God and obtain Salvation and escape Sin and Hell is so great that no man is to pretend publick good or the will of man against it 4. Self-government as to power and obligation is antecedent to humane publick Government in order of Nature And publick Government doth not destroy it but regulate it And therefore is not for destruction but for edification 5. The end of Self-government is so much to please God and save our Souls that no man on pretence of publick Government can disoblige us from this 6. God hath in the fifth Commandment
which setleth humane Government and obedience chosen the name of Parents rather than Princes because Parents Government is antecedent to Princes and Princes cannot take it from them nor disoblige their Children But Self-government is more natural than Parents and Parents and Princes must help it but not destroy it 7. When persons want natural capacity for Self-government as Infants and Ideots and mad-men they are to be governed by force as bruits being not capable of more 8. Family Government being in order next to personal Princes or Bishops have no right to overthrow it at least except in part on slaves of whose lives they have absolute power If the King impose Wives Servants and Diet on all his Subjects they may lawfully chuse fitter for themselves if they can and at least may refuse unmeet Wives and Servants and mortal or hurtful Meats and Drinks 9. Much more if Princes and Patrons will impose on all men the Bishops and Pastors to whose charge care and Pastoral conduct they must commit their Souls the people having the nearest right of choice and strongest obligation must refuse as discerning Self-governing judges such whose heresie negligence ignorance malignity or treachery is like either apparently to hazard them or to deprive them of that Pastoral help which they find needful for them and they have right to as well as other men 10. The gain or loss is more the Patients than the Imposers It is their own Souls that are like to be profited and saved by needful helps or lost for want of them And therefore it most concerns themselves to know what helps they chuse 11. If all the Kings on earth command men to trust their lives to a Physician who they have just cause to believe is like to kill them by ignorance errour or treachery or to a Pilot or Boat-man that is like to drown them they are not bound to obey such mandates Yea if they know an able faithful Physician that is most like to cure them they may chuse him before an unknown man though the King be against their choice 12. Scripture and experience tell us that God worketh usually according to the aptitude of means and instruments and learned experienced Physicians cure more than the ignorant rash and slothful and good Scholars make their Pupils more learned than the ignorant do And skilful able experienced holy Pastors convert and edifie much more than ignorant and vicious men And means must accordingly be chosen 13. If the Pastoral work skilfully and faithfully done be needful it must not be neglected whoever forbid it If it be not needful what is the Church of England good for more than Infidels or at least than Moscovites And for what are they maintained by Tythes Glebe and all the dignities honours and wealth they have And for what do men so much contend for them 14. It is natural to generate the like and for men to do and chuse as they are and as their interest leadeth them Christ tells us how hard it is for a rich man to be saved and how few such prove good And the Clergy themselves do not say that all the Patrons in England are wise and pious Many Parliaments have by our Church-men been deeply accused And most Parliament men I think are Patrons Others say that most Patrons not chosen to Parliaments are worse Some Preachers complain of Great men for fornication drunkenness excess idleness yea Atheism or infidelity If many or any be such are they like to chuse such Pastors as all godly men may trust in so great a Case Or would not such Princes chuse such Bishops 15. Men are as able and as much obliged now to take heed to whose conduct they trust their Souls as they were in all former Ages of the Church forecited 16. The Laws and Bishops of England allow all men liberty to chuse what Church and Pastor that Conformeth they please so they will but remove their dwellings into the Parish which they affect And in London thousands live as Lodgers and may easily go under whom they will chuse And if they like him not may shift as oft as they please 17. Parish bounds are of much use for Order But Order is for the thing ordered and not against it And Parish bounds being of humane make cannot justly be preferr'd before the needful edification and safety of mens Souls though such humane Laws bind where there are no greater obligations against them 18. The Law of keeping to Parish-Churches where we dwell and the Law that giveth Patrons the choice of all the Pastors and Princes of Bishops are of the same efficient power and strength 19. Casuists usually say even Papists that are too much for Papal power that humane Laws bind not when they are against the end the common good especially against mens salvation And a Toletan Council decreeth that none of their Canons shall be interpreted to bind ad culpam but ad poenam lest they cause mens damnation And many Casuists say that Penal Laws bind only to do or suffer and bearing the penalty satisfieth them save as to scandal 20. Yet we still acknowledge all the right in Princes and Patrons before-mentioned and that Princes are bound to promote Learning and piety and so to see that due places countenance and maintenance encourage faithful Ministers and that all the Subjects have meet Teachers and submit to hear and learn And that they should restrain Hereticks and Soul-betrayers from the sacred Office-work and judg who are to be maintained and who to be tolerated 21. But this power is not absolute but bounded And if on the pretence of it they would betray the Church and starve Souls like the English Canon that binds all from going to an able Pastor at the next Parish from an ignorant unpreaching vicious Reader men are not bound to obey it but to provide better for themselves unless materially not formally for some time when not obeying would do more hurt than good or as a man must forbear publick assemblies in a common Plague-time And so much to open the true reason of the case in hand And Paul's words to Timothy 1 Tim. 4. 16. tell me this care is not unnecessary Take heed to thy self and to the doctrine and continue in them for in doing this thou shalt both save thy self and them that hear thee § 17. come now to the Doctor 's words who p. 312. undertakes to prove 1. That the main ground of the peoples Interest was founded on the Apostles Canon A Bishop must be blameless Ans The word main may do him service but no hurt to my cause Main signifieth not Only who doubts but the People were to discern the Lives of chosen persons But without coming to the Ballance among many causes which is the main I have proved that there were more And among others that Christ and his Apostles bid them take heed how they hear beware of false Prophets and their leaven beware of the concision A man
that is an Heretick avoid Bid them not good speed Let no man deceive you Those that cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine ye have learned avoid from such turn away Is here no more than judging their lives § 18. Here he cometh to prove this even by Cyprian's Epistle against Martial and Basilides I must not name his dealing with it lest he say Irail But I may note 1. that he saith the force of what Cyprian saith comes at last only to this giving Testimony Answ Only here is more than Main before And though it was a matter of scandal that was before them and therefore it is no wonder if nothing else be particularly spoken of yet sure these words signifie more than Testimony By publick judgment and Testimony be approved worthy and meet And to be sound in the faith and apt to teach is some part of meetness And because they chiefly have power either to chuse Priests that are worthy or refuse the unworthy A chief chusing power of the worthy is more than a meer testimony of fact Again that by the suffrage of the whole fraternity the Episcopacy be delivered to him Suffrage is more than testimony of fact And All they do sin who are defiled by the sacrifice of a prophane and unjust Priest signifieth a dissenting power or else separation were no duty But he saith This is the strongest testimony in antiquity for the peoples power Answ A strange saying of so good an Historian who may easily know that the concurrent judgment of all the Churches their practice and their Canons making the Peoples consent and usually Election necessary was a far stronger testimony than one Epistle But to weaken this he saith 1. It was in a case where a Bishop had voluntarily resigned Answ 1. What 's that to the general rule here asserted 2. Was it voluntarily which they were adjudged to do But I find no mention of Martial's voluntary resigning but only Basilides 2. He saith Another Bishop was put in his place not by the power of the people c. Answ 1. This was before said that the people might give them power No. As if he would have the Reader think that we hold the people give the power which I have so oft disproved But it 's his advantage to talk to many men at once that he may say some of you said it But if distinction were not a crime I would distinguish between giving the power and concurring with other Causes to give a Receptivity to the person that must have it The peoples consent is a causa partialis of capacity and receptivity 2. But what signifie these words The Ordination of our Collegue Sabinus by the suffrage of the whole fraternity and by the judgment of the Bishops c. Is not this as much power as we plead for 3. Are not you the Author of the Defence of B. Laud and say That Christ gave the Keys to Peter as the representative of the whole Church And have you now said more against me or your self I am not of that mind 3. He saith They had the judgment of a whole Council for deserting him Answ Yes for deserting them both And that Council told them God had fore-determined in his word what men must or must not be Bishops and it was God rather than they that judged it and bound them to obey and that the power was chiefly in the people to chuse and refuse c. Did you think you had helpt your cause by saying It was a whole Council that was for what we say 4. He saith It was for Idolatry and blasphemy by his own confession Answ Which mean you by his when they were two neither of them were otherwise Idolaters than as Libellaticks who to save their lives suffered other men to subscribe their names thinking it was not their own deed like some that I have heard of that thought Conformity Perjury c. but let a Friend bribe an Officer to subscribe their names and give them a Certificate And Baslides blasphemy was in his sickness in terrour of Conscience and perhaps phrensie 5. He saith all St. Cyprian's proof is that the people were most concerned to give testimony of life c. This is answered already § 10. His next is The people on this assuming the power of Elections caused great disturbance and disorders in the Church where he goeth over some few of the many instances which I have at large recited at Antioch Rome Alexandria c. Answ 1. And yet for all these disorders the Church deprived not the People of their priviledge 2. But how fallaciously is this urged I have fully elsewhere opened to the Reader how the aspiring Prelates seeking Patriarchates and Bishopricks became as so many Captains at War and gathered Monks Clergy and People to strive and fight for them And now he layeth this on the People As if the common Souldiers and not the Generals were the cause of the War But of this I have said enough § 20. He saith To prevent this many Bishops were made without the choice of the People and Canons made to regulate Elections Answ Crastily said He saith not without the consent of the People but the Election And he saith not that the Canons took away either consenting or electing suffrages but that they regulated them Yes they over and over confirmed them § 21. He saith A◠Alexandria the Election belonged to the twelve Presbyters Answ They are hard put to it when they are put to fly to that testimony which maketh Presbyters the makers of Bishops Hierome and Eutychius Alexand. tell you that the Presbyters chose and made the Bishops as the Army doth a General which made Arch-Bishop Usher tell King Charles the First That the Presbyters at Alexandria did more than Ordain Presbyters for they made Bishops as he told me himself But 1. We never denied that the Com-provincial Bishops ordinarily afterwards Ordained them 2. Nor that the Presbyters chose them Did the Doctor think this was to the purpose But 1. Doth he think that the Presbyters choice excludeth the Peoples when it is a known thing that the Canons and Custom constantly conjoyned them 2. Will he conclude that when ever History nameth not the Peoples choice they are left out 3. Will he perswade us when the People are not the chusers that they are not necessarily the consenters or refusers I will add one more proof to all before-mentioned It is impossible ex naturâ rei that the Pastoral Office should be exercised on dissenters Therefore their consent is necessary A Patient may be drencht like a Horse and cram'd like fatted Fowl and so may have a Physician against his will But a Soul cannot use Pastoral help unwillingly 1. He cannot unwillingly be baptized 2. Nor unwillingly joyn in publick prayer and praise with the Church 3. Nor unwillingly confess sin 4. Nor unwillingly crave or receive Ministerial counsel 5. Nor unwillingly receive the Lords Supper 6.
still maintain with the Church of England and the Parish Churches 8. Whether he put the case to them whether we that have Communion with them are Schismaticks if we also have Communion with others whom they prosecute 9. Whether he put the question to them whether we are lawfully silenced and if not whether rebus sic stantibus we are bound to forbear our Ministry 10. Whether he made them know that all the Ministers of England as well as we were forbidden to Preach c. unless they would Conform to that we are ready to prove unlawful And if it prove so whether they should all either have sinned or been silent in obedience 11. Whether he made them understand how many thousands there be in London that cannot have room in the Parish-Churches and the Nonconformists Churches set together but live like Atheists 12. Whether he acquainted them that the question is whether all godly dissenters that are cast out or cannot joyn in the Parish way of Liturgick Worship must till their judgments change give over all publick worship of God and be forsaken of all Teachers 13. Whether he acquainted them how loud a Call we had to preach in London first by the Plague then by the burning of the Churches the people being deserted by the Parish Ministers in these sad extremities 14. Whether he acquainted them with the Kings Licences and our being accused of Schism even when Licensed 15. Whether he acquainted them with what we have said for ourselves lately in divers Books or they judg'd us unheard 16. Whether they be singular or whether it be the judgment of the Protestant Churches in France that it is a sin for any to preach or publickly worship God when the King Bishops and Law forbid them And if so How long it hath been their judgment and why all their Churches ceased not when prohibited If not so How to know that our silencing Laws and Bishops must be obeyed and not theirs There is no understanding their answers till we know how the case was stated § 2. Mr. Clodes Letter is moderate and it 's like they took the case to be about proper separation and so say no more in the main than some Nonconformists have said against the Brownists But the Dr. hath dealt too unmercifully with Mr. Le Moine in publishing his Epistle when it was so easie to know how few if any would believe his story but take it for a confirmation how incredible our accusers are I mean his story that five years ago he heard one of the most famous Nonconformists preach in a place where were three men and three or fourscore women he had chosen a Text about the building up the ruins of Jerusalem and for explication cited Plinny and Vitruvius a hundred times c. I think I shall never speak with the person that will believe him sure I am London knoweth that the Nonconformists are the most averse to such kind of Preaching And I know not one of them that I can say ever read a quarter of Vitruvius I confess I never read a leaf of him This Monsieur would do well to tell us yet the name of the man that if living he may be call'd to account But I doubt he fell into some Tabernacle of which many are erected in place of the burnt Churches and perhaps heard the Conformist who had occasion to talk of architecture But yet I will not believe that either Conformist or Nonconformist would expose himself to common scorn by an hundred or twenty such citations § 3. And his description of the mens horrible impudence to excommunicate without mercy the Church c. imagining that they are the only men in England nay in the Christian world that are predestimated to eternal happiness c. and then pronouncing them intolerable sheweth that it is not us that he speaketh of nor any company that is known to us neither our Separatists here nor Anabaptists nor so much as the very Quakers holding any such thing § 4. And though he saith He was not at all edified by the Nonconformists preaching it followeth not that no others are Nor that none were edified in England or Scotland while publick Preachers went the Nonconformists way § 5. But because the Doctor chuseth this way I will imitate him though with the Apology that St. Paul gloried and give him notice of some Epistles of men that judged otherwise of the Nonconformists CHAP. XIV Epistles or Testimonies compared with the Doctors And notes on Mr. Joseph Glanvile's Book called The Zealous Impartial Protestant with a Letter of his to the Author heretofore and a Digression of Doctor L. Moulin § 1. IN general he that will read the Lives of many of the old Nonconformists Hildersham Dod and many such and Bishop Hall's Character of Dr. Reynolds and the late published Lives of Mr. Joseph Allen John Janeway Dr. Winter Mr. Macham Mr. Wadsworth Mr. Stubbs c. will see better what to judge of them than by our three French Epistles Yea Thuanus giveth a juster Character of many abroad that were of their mind And John Fox one of them of more § 2. And to our three French-men I will when it will be of more use than seeming vanity return you four French-mens Letters to my self Mr. Gaches Mr. Amyralds Mr. Le Blanks and Mr. Testards and if you will some Germans too Calvinists and Lutherans of a quite differing sense of us Nonconformists But Mr. Gaches being already in Print by the Duke of Lauderdales means 1660. and joyned with one of Mr. L'Angles I leave the Reader that desireth to see both § 3. But because Mr. Jos Glanvile was one of themselves here though an Origenist a most triumphant Conformist and not the gentlest contemner of Nonconformists and famous for his great wit I will repay the Dr. with the annexing one among many since of his Letters to my self which yet indeed I do not chiefly to ballance the Drs. but to help the Reader to understand Mr. Glanvile and his posthumous Book which I think not meet to pass by without some Animadversions Though I have great reason to hope that dying so soon after it and his preferment the experience of the Vanity of a flattering World might help to save him from impenitence As I have read in divers credible writers it was with Dr. Matthew Sutliffe that on his Death-bed he repented that he had written so much against the Reformers called Puritans I perceive Dr. Stillingfleet marvelleth that my own expectations of approaching Death do not hinder me from writing what I do for the Nonconformists whereas the truth is had not pain and weakness kept me from my youth as in the continual prospect of the Grave and the next life I had never been like to have been so much against Conformity and the present Discipline of this Church that is their want of Discipline as I have been For the World might have more flattered me and byassed my Judgment
and my Conscience might have been bolder and less fearful of sin And though I love not to displease them I must say this great truth that I had never been like to have lived in so convincing sensible experience of the great difference of the main body of the Conformists from the most of the Nonconformists as to the seriousness of their Christian Faith and hope and practice their victory over the flesh and world c. I mean both in the Clergy and Laity of mine acquaintance O how great a difference have I found from my youth to this day Though I doubt not but very many of the Passive Conformable Ministers to say nothing of the Imposers have been and are worthy pious men and such as would not perswade their hearers that the Jesuits first brought in spiritual prayer And I had the great blessing of my Education near some such in three or four neighbour Parishes § 4. It grieved me to hear of Mr. Glanvile's death for he was a man of more than ordinary ingeny and he was about a Collection of Histories of Apparitions which is a work of great use against our Sadducees and to stablish doubters and the best mans faith hath need of all the helps from sense that we can get And I feared lest that work had perished with him But I gladly hear that by the care of Dr. H. More that worthy faithful man of peace who never studied preferment it is both preserved and augmented And as for his Origenisme as I like it not so I confess in matters of that nature I can better bear with the venturousness of dissenters than hereticators can do But when I saw this Rag called a Letter left behind him my grief for him was doubled And I saw what cause we have all to fear the snares of a flattering world and what cause to pray for Divine preservation and for an unbyassed mind and a humble sense of our own frailty that we may neither over-value prosperity nor our own understandings I did not think that he that had wrote the Vanity of Dogmatizing could so soon have come to perswade men in power that dissenting from our Churches dogmatizing and imposed words formes and ceremonies was worthy of so severe a prosecution of us as he describeth and that all their danger is from the forbearing such prosecution of us and that though for their own ends he could abate us some little matters the only way to settled peace is vigorously to execute the Laws against us He that can think the silencing and imprisoning of about 2000 such Ministers is the way to bring this Land to Concord hath sure very hard thoughts of them in comparison of Conformists And that you may see how little his judgment against such should weigh with others who is so lately changed from himself I will give you here one of several Letters which I had from him and leave you to judge whether he have proved that he was much wiser at last than when he wrote this or whether his character of me agree with his motion to silence and ruine all such I am so far from owning his monstrous praises that I fear I offended him with sharply rebuking him for them But lest his wit and virulence here do harm I give it you to shew the unconstancy of his judgment or if he would have excepted me from his severities I must profess that I believe the most of the Nonconformable Ministers of my acquaintance are better men than my self and therefore his excessive praise of me is the condemnation and shame of his persecuting counsel § 5. As to his praise of the Bishops Writings against Popery I had rather magnifie than obscure their deserts But I am not able to believe that the old ones who write to prove the Pope Antichrist c. and the new ones who would bring us to obey him as Patriarch of the West and principium unitatis Catholicae were of one mind because both are called Protestants and that such as Bishop Bramhall and the rest of the defenders of Grotius were of the same judgment with Bishop Usher Bishop Morton Bishop Downame c. nor that Grotius who describeth a Papist to be one that flattereth Popes as if all were right which they said and did did disclaim Popery in the same sense as the old Church of England did Two men may cry down Popery while one of them is a Papist or near one in the others sense As to the folly of calling that Popery which is not I have said more against it in my Cath. Theologie than he hath done And as to his excuse of an ignorant vicious sort of Ministers because no better will take small Livings It is not true The silenced Nonconformists would have been glad of them or to have preached there for nothing The tolerating of ignorant scandalous men were more excusable if better were not shut out that would have taken such places But it 's notorious that for the interest of their faction and prosperity they had rather have the ignorant and vicious than the ablest and most laborious Nonconformist Bishop Morley told me when he forbad me to preach that It was better for a place to have none than to have me when I askt him Whether I might not be suffered in some place which no one else will take Most of the old Nonconformists were suffered by connivance in small obscure places which was the chief reason why they set not up other meetings which Dr. Stillingfleet thought they avoided as unlawful because forbidden § 6. And as to his excuse by blaming ill Patrons I would know then by what true obligation all men in England are bound to commit the Pastoral conduct of their Souls to such men only as our English Patrons chuse § 7. And when he so blameth the tepidity and irreligiousness of the Members of their own Church I would know 1. Whether all men that are more seriously religious must be forsaken by us and ruined by them if they be not of their mind and form 2. And whether the numbers of the irreligious that are for their way and the numbers of the religious that are against it should not rather breed some suspicion in them than engage them to ruine so many such men § 8. And when page 3. he confesseth that the sword is their Churches strength and Government and how contemptible words paper Arguments and excommunications are without force doth he not shame their whole cause and shew that it is not the same Government which the Church used for many hundred years which they desire and that their whole power of the Keys which they talk so much for seems to themselves a dead and uneffectual thing while we Nonconformists desire no coercive power but to guide Consenters § 9. As to his project to save religion under a Papist King if the Dean and Chapter may but chuse the Bishop I leave it to other mâ—â—â— consideration But