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A94178 A loyall subjects beliefe, expressed in a letter to Master Stephen Marshall, Minister of Finchingfield in Essex, from Edward Symmons a neighbour minister, occasioned by a conference betwixt them. With the answer to his objections for resisting the Kings personall will by force of armes. And, the allegation of some reasons why the authors conscience cannot concurre in this way of resistance with some of his brethren. Symmons, Edward. 1643 (1643) Wing S6345; Thomason E103_6; ESTC R212787 94,533 112

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a people before there was a King he was ordained for their good and therefore is to serve them Answ So Esau was Iacobs elder Brother yet the elder was appointed to serve the younger and the whole world that great Kingdome was made before man yet made for his sake to serve him not he to serve that indeed a King is no more ordained for the peoples good then they are for his good they are each ordained for other good and both for Gods glory which is most advanced by peace and union so that 't is not Salus populi alone but 't is Salus Regis et populi that is suprema Lex and so highly to be regarded nor doth Salus populi consist in resisting or suppressing the King What saies Pilate the Heathen to them that called themselves Gods people shall I crucify your King q. d. what an unnaturall and unreasonable thing is it for Subjects to goe about to ruinate their own King if they had answered O 't is to save our selves Pilate would have laught them to scorne although indeed perhaps when people go about any such businesse 't is to save some of themselves whose black merits do make them suspicious of the Kings mercy but should they prevaile the effect would shew that the safety of the enemies would never countervaile to the Commonwealth the Kings dammage Some there be that thinke Salus populi to consist in Liberty and Li● qerty as they conceive is for every man to do what is right in his owne eyes be of what Religion he please commit Idolatrie and Adultery rob plunder and take away the goods of others be both his owne Carver and his owne Judge and thus it was of old when there was no King in Israel ergo But Sir though some upon a taste of this kinde of Liberty which hath of late been permitted to them cry out O these be the blessed dayes these be the happy times yet you and I cannot but conceive that they are the beginning of sorrowes wil end in bitternesse we know this Liberty is every way destructive and rather Beast-like then Humane whereas this should be Christian which consists cheifly parendo Gods service is a perfect freedome and there was a King set up in Israel to remedy those abuses And thus Sir you see that I doe not apprehend from your reasons or arguments any necessity of such resistance in the case Now concerning the Oath or Covenant which the King takes or makes at his Coronation how that doth countenance a defensive resistance Sect. 12 on the Subjects part if the Prince shall make a breach thereof we shall a little consider First Sir let me minde you of what you yeilded namely that the King is King before his Coronation indeed his Crowne is but a note or ensigne of his Kingly dignity he hath a right unto and is in actuall possession of his Inheritance given him of God before he makes his Covenant on the Coronation day which cannot therefore be supposed to be conditionall with the people nor be thought that he by it from them receives his office with a quandiu bene se gesserit so that of necessity he must forfeit his power unto them if he breakes his promise We read that supreme Princes in ancient times as they were free from Lawes so from Oathes the Romane Empire was not wont to sweare unto the Senate or to the people but they both did take an Oath to him Those Oathes Covenants the Scripture mentions in the Story of the Kings of Iudah were not made or taken by the King if we marke them but by the people to their King or by the King and people together unto the Lord after some generall defection from his worship and service no this custome of a Kings swearing is the Infant of later times it was borne ad faciendum fidem peoples distrust was the parent of it evill suspicion as being for the most part the root of Rebellion was ever counted ominous and therefore to prevent a sinister opinion of a new King it was thought meet by such Princes upon their solemne Coronation day to enter into a visible Covenant with God in the presence of their people And I beleive the custome 's good as a meane by Gods grace to keepe a Prince his will within the bounds of Conscience but in that it was not so ab initio it plainly shewes that a Kings entrance into his Government doth no whit depend upon his Covenant nor doth this Covenant at all diminish his supremacy or derogate from the absolutenesse of his Power no if it were made unto his people as it is not I do not see how of necessity it must make him any way liable to their subjection God himself was pleased ad faciendam fidem to swear to Abraham and to David yet did hee not thereby any way make himselfe their inferiour But indeed the Kings Oath and Covenant is onely unto God 't is His Oath of Allegiance to the Lord and in effect to this purpose that he will discharge the trust imposed upon him by the God of Heaven and earth of whom he holds his Kingdome and this is made visibly in the presence of the people that they might not distrust the faithfulnesse or integrity of that Person to whom is committed by him who knowes all hearts so great a Power And sure as 't is a heavy sinne in a Prince to falsify his Covenant with the Majestie of Heaven so 't is no small sinne in Subjects to distrust a Prince his fidelity upon slight grounds or to expose him by any means to the generall suspicions of his people But now Sir what warrant have the Subjects from hence for their resistance if the King breakes his Oath to God is not God able to revenge his owne cause hath hee not alwayes done it observe stories and see if you can name one example of any King though never so great that brake Covenant with God whom God hath not remembred and is his arme shortned or is not his Justice still the same Ob. O yes say some we have a warrant to helpe the Lord against the mighty Meroz was cursed because she did not Answ Meroz indeed was cursed with a bitter curse and did deserve it because she came not to helpe her King her Captain or supreme Judge whom God had set over her on whose side the Lord was against his Enemies that rose up or went out against him that were so many and so mighty but she is not cursed because she did not resist her owne Governour The breach of our Oath of Alleagiance unto the King is onely an offence against the King and to be punished by him and not by any of his Subjects without his Authority nay if any breake promise and Covenant with one of us our selves onely can justly accuse him and shall we not allow God the same Priviledge by what Authority therefore do you this thing call
and justice to his dying day He that is born a King or a Prince can never be unborne more semel Augustus semper Augustus Yea I believe that the eldest Son of such a King is in respect of birth the Lords anoynted in his fathers life time even as David was before Sauls death ' and to deprive Him of his right in reversion is as true injustice as to dispossesse him of it were he actually invested with it I believe where unction speaks not Inheritance by birth is the best Title to a Kingdome had unction been silent Adoniiah by this had surely prevailed as the succeeding Kings of Judah did Solomons own words to his mother inferre as much 1 Kin. 2.22 aske for him the kingdome also for he is mine Elder brother as in this our Nation Birth hath alwayes been the best and most unquestionable plea unto the Crowne the Conque-rour himselfe made use of it so did Henry the fourth and Richard the 3. though both usurpers we may observe how Gods speciall providence blessing hath alwayes favoured this title and preferr'd it they that marke what story tels concerning the opposite indeavors of some both in Henry the eighth Edward the sixth Queen Elizabeths dayes must needs confesse Gods speciall care in conveying the Kingdome to that Royall family where now 't is seated being lineally descended in the Elder surviving bloud from both the divided Houses after the union And on the other side it is most evident that God hath sharply punished those that have offered wrong unto right of Inheritance yea the whole Nation hath lost much both Noble and Vulgar bloud in former times for suffering injustice to be done unto it if we remember but the wars between Yorke and Lancaster we shall finde somewhat in the root of them to this purpose Concerning Monarchy I do believe that of all Governments it is Sect. 4 the best and most perfect it being most opposite to Anarchy most agreeing to well ordered nature as appears among planets birds beasts and bees the most ancient and Noble from the beginning of Nations yea of families whereof there is still an Image in every well guided house where one is chiefe and lastly it being that which God set up among his owne people and hath the nearest resemblance of himselfe for where Majestie is all concentred in one there is a more compleat Image of God who is but one yea and Majesty so united makes it as in God more amiable to the good and more terrible to the wicked And from hence I cannot but see and confesse to Gods praise this Nations Happinesse which hath ever been subject to this Government and if I should be of that sect who are weary of it and wish for an alteration Pro. 24 21 22. I believe I should neither feare God nor the King as I ought to do as Solomon infers they do not who associate with them that are seditious or affect a change whose calamity sayes he shall rise suddainly surely God is wiser then man and that Government which hee so long time hath blessed a Nation with is doubtlesse the best for that Nation In a Monarchy I do believe that the King hath neither superior to compell him nor equall to affront him for then he were not the supreme 1 Pet. 2.14 Gen. 49.10 as the Apostle cals him and I do conceive that in regard of his supremacy he is fons legum The Law giver the Authour and moderatour of the Lawes or rather the Lex viva of his Kingdome without him the Lawes are dead and on him dependeth salus reipublicae Himselfe is bound to no Lawes save those of God and the reason is quia nemo sibi fert legem sed subditis suis He is the King onely of his people and to whom onely he is a King to them onely he gives Lawes A King in this is like God and must indeed be like him further who notwithstanding hee may dispense with his own precept and so doth in some cases yet for the most part himselfe is pleased to walke towards us by those rules hee gives unto us Indeed the free conformity of a Prince to his own Lawes doth constrain his people to a more loving obedience In a Monarchy also I do believe suscipiendi belli Authoritatem penes esse principem as Augustine contra Faustum speaks and if men have not their Princes warrant they have not Gods call to go to war nor can they upon any good ground looke for Gods blessing God call'd Ioshua and the people to that prosperous undertaking against Amalek by the mouth of Moses We do not read in Scripture of any just war ever undertaken by Subjects without the will and command of the Sovereigne voluntiers in such a case are non entia in Gods book justa causa recta intentio personarum idoneitas et authoritas principis are the 4 Conditions that make a war compleatly righteous doubtlesse the justnesse of the cause alone cannot give a lawfull power as some imagine no though the cause be Religion it selfe and the persons Holy men their intentions good yet to take up armes without the Prince is crimen laesae majestatis and no lesse than Treason if war without the Prince be so unlawfull though for Religion then much more unlawfull is it if against the Prince or contrary to his command though for the same cause And I belive that in a case of war a subjects duty is to looke principally at a lawfull call yea more than at the cause it selfe for that may be supra nos and therefore nihil ad nos if we prye into the reasons of Princes undertakings we may prove our selves busy bodyes 1 Pet. 4.15 who in the Apostles judgement are guilty Persons Peter Martyr out of Aug. tels us that fieri potest ut princeps ipse contra Conscientiam bellum gerat et milites tamen nihil peccent dum ordinariae potestati obtemperant populum enim obtemperare oportet principi suo id vero dum faciunt potest illis dubium esse an a principe suo contra mandatum dei pugnetur excusantur autem dum in causâ dubiâ principi suo parent suo inquam non alieno and their own Prince is Hee under whose protection they were borne and unto whom onely they have sworne Allegiance Concerning Authority I believe it to be a most high and sacred Sect. 5 thing the very Crown and dignity of a Prince the Repositum which God hath committed to his charge and he who is faithfull to God will sooner part with life it self then suffer that which hee by him is entrusted withall to be violated undermined or diminished Yea I do believe that a Sovereigne Prince is bound in Conscience to uphold and maintaine this beam of Divinity with the sword if he be so hindred by obstructions that hee cannot defend it by his Lawes and I believe that all his Subjects upon his call are bound in
sermons with fearefull tales of those whom they count their Enemies and with miracles as it were of those on their owne side 7. Hath it not beene counted Popery to presse the precepts of men with more eagernesse then those of God and to punish the neglect of them with greater severity then the breach of divine Lawes and may not men now a daies breake the righteous Lawes of God steale rob and spoile their neighbours persecute Gods Ministers prophane his worship and deface his houses with impunity nay with commendation for their zeale and care of the cause but if any for conscience sake forbeare to give a ready obedience to a burdensome ordinance of man which perhaps too he cannot possibly stand under shall he not be prisoned and plundered his living taken from him if he be a Minister and his people poysond with the intrusion of some false teacher 8. The Doctrine of Popery is a Doctrine of Pride all must submit to the Pope and his Popelings he for his part will be judged by none but all must be judged by him from which condition he is called by the Apostle Antichrist because he advanceth himselfe against all that is called God which is the title of Kings and Princes and is not this superlativenesse of spirit manifest among us nay do not our Brethren of the new way aime at a farre greater power over men then the Bishops had of late whom for that cause they counted Popish what did those wordes else of one in my hearing discover We shall saies he be as much troubled with the Justices of Peace as we were before with the Bishops if there be not some order taken with them and that device of another that for the government of the Church we onely that had beene molested by the Bishops should be imployed in that and they that had before beene any way Prelaticall should have nothing at all to do therein Sir those expressions and such like did I must confesse begin to worke the first suspicion in me of my Brethren I before did thinke they had all endeavoured as I did at the reformation of evill and not at their owne supremacy both over their Brethren and the Gentry too therefore for my part I shall rather choose to walke in the low way alone then in that High way with them 9. The Doctrine of Popery hath alwaies beene a Doctrine of violence and cruelty the whole booke of Martyrs doth sufficiently shew it and may it not be said of them that pretend they are the reformers of Popery amongst us that destruction and violence are in their waies for their cruelty I thinke that reverend Brother of ours did sufficiently intimate it by the resolution he gave to a tender Conscience desireing to know whether it were lawfull to lend or give mony to maintaine this warre against the King His Answer as I heard was Affirmative and his reason was taken from the Examples of Succoth and Penuell who were rent with briars and thornes when the Captaine returned because they had not given him their assistance and to prevent a like punishment he concluded it was lawfull to give the resolution was doughty but it inferr'd Cruelty in the exactors And so my selfe talkeing with another about this businesse of plate and money his judgement was we had better give then not for if the King prevailed wee were like to find mercy from him for he was gratious and pitifull and would in his Princely compassion consider the inforcement that was used upon us and the danger we were in but if they prevailed on the other side nothing but cruelty in the excesse could be expected from them could their any more be said of the Papists It is true as the Papists cry out of the Cruelty of the Protestants so do they of those of the Kings party but why do men practice themselves what they condemne in others Author of the Pamphlet called The glorious Name of God c. Pag 21. How cruelly they of the Kings side demeane themselves I know not but this I know however that unreverend speaker is pleased to call the Nobility and Gentry with the King clouts and ragges and wispes appointed of God to scoure such uncleane vessels as himselfe is yet they are better bred then those persons emploied to plunder and spoile us and a Noble Gentile spirit ordinarily scornes Cruelty Secondly those Declarations that come from His Majestie if as we are urged to beleeve are made by his Cavaleers we may say their breath is not so nauseous to the apprehension of a Gospellike spirit as that of others we do not meet with Kill slay and destroy in any of these expresses which indeed is the Language of Antichrist who is therefore called Apollyon a destroier where ever I heare Kill slay and destroy I conceive it to be the Language of Abaddon Nay in one thing more let me shew you the Spirit of Antichrist in this new way As the aime of the wicked Papists hath beene cheifely to defile mens Consciences and to destroy their soules by labouring to perswade them by promises and threats to recant and deny the truth of God which they have professed as is evident by many examples in the booke of Martyrs and because they would not do that therefore was that mercy lesse Cruelty excercised upon them so is it the fashion now I can speake it by experience when I had beene a prisoner for preaching the truth of Jesus the space of seventeene dayes I addressed my selfe unto that member who by seduction onely as I hope was made the first instrument of my drunken adversary to bring me into trouble for I thought it my duty out of love to his soule to deny my selfe and beg a plaister from that hand that most unjustly had given the wound and to this end I obteined your most friendly and brotherly letter unto him but what did I meet withall a serious persuasion to recant whereto I answered that I durst not deny the truth of God which I had preached He most discreetly replied yea but the truth must not be spoken at all times I humbly answered that a divine truth is then in speciall to be spoken and mainteined by them that are entrusted with it of God when 't is in danger to be lost which he also denied but as be said his businesse was such that he could not stand to argue the case with me by which I gathered that if I would have defiled my conscience in disclaiming that depositum which God had committed to my charge I might haply at this present have enjoyed my living and the Society of my wife and children But Sir I did see the Hand of God bringing me before the Parliament as well as the hand of that member and although perhaps he brought me upon the stage of trouble that I might deny the truth of God yet I am sure Gods end was that I might confesse the same to his glory and