Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	word_n	work_n	youth_n	23	3	7.7288	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A86484	A rejoynder to Master Samuel Eaton and Master Timothy Taylor's reply. Or, an answer to their late book called A defence of sundry positions and scriptures, &c. With some occasionall animadversions on the book called the Congregational way justified. For the satisfaction of all that seek the truth in love, especially for his dearly beloved and longed for, the inhabitants in and neer to Manchester in Lancashire. / Made and published by Richard Hollinworth. Mancuniens.	Hollingworth, Richard, 1607-1656.	1647 (1647)	Wing H2496; Thomason E391_1; ESTC R201545	213,867	259

year or oft●er to consult and determine of the summe to be allowed for that yeare to their Ministers and to raise it Whether it may not be hence inferred that there is a way of setled and stinted maintenance in New-England for a year at least let the Reader judge I will not contend about it That the people in New-England when the work is done do consult and consider the Minister for the year past or that the Minister doth not know till the year be up what he must have in which respect the condition of the meanest servant is usually better then his is scarce agreeable I think to the letter of Mr. Welds words or to the practise of New-England where as Theodore de la Guard p. 39. saith They generally find and practise as the best way That the Ministers have seasonable and honourable maintenance and that certainly stated But our work is to find out the mind of God not of man CHAP. XXIII Of the distinction of Pastors and Teachers on EPHES. 4.11 WHen I say that Ephes 4.11 proves not that Teachers must be distinct from Pastors as Apostles are distinct from Evangelists you reply p. 70. You crosse the opinion of many Orthodox modern Writers whether you translate some Apostles or these Apostles the matter is not weighty nor are you advantaged by it The greater question is who these Teachers be and what their work is whether School-Doctors to train up Youth in the knowledge of Arts and Sciences especially of Divinity or Teachers of the whole Church and their work to doctrinate the Church by words of knowledge which seems more consonant to the Scripture And Zanchy Pareus Bucer and many others are of this judgement whose Reasons your selves in the Congregational way justified p. 9. thus abridge God gives distinct gifts to Pastors from those he gives to Teachers for to one is given a speciall faculty of Exhortation to the other a clearer understanding of doctrine and consequently they are distinct officers And you conclude your Reply p. 70. with these words So that if we do put any false glosse upon the Scriptures by misinterpreting of Ephes 4.11 yet more modest language had becommed you seeing such Reverend and learned men whom your self so much honour have gone before us in this exposition Rejoynd 1. The force of my argument to which you answer not at all was not as you would in both your books make the Reader to believe that the article 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 was translated some or these but that the said article is not inserted between Pastor and Teacher as it is between every of the rest to shew that there is not the same distinction between them as between each two of the rest as appears plainly by my answer though you take no notice of it having fit occasion and being minded of it by me I would not so deal with you 2. That you have the authority of Zanchy and of some reverend men besides on your part in this Position I do not deny nor do I want such on my part but I would see with mine own eyes not other mens 3. To the reasons alledged as you say by Pareus and Bucer for the distinction of Pastors and Teachers from difference of gifts which is grounded on Rom. 12. I answer 1. It takes not away the exception made against the proof of this by Ephes 4.11 2. I suppose the Apostle did not intend no not in Rom. 12. though he might intend it there and yet Ephes 4.11 be impertinently alleadged for proof of it that each of those severall gifts should constitute a severall officer for then there should be seven officers in the Church viz. Prophets v. 6. Ministers and Teachers v. 7. Exhorters Givers Rulers Shewers of mercy v. 8. For all these are equally by the disjunctive particle Or severed one from another for it is not sufficiently cleared to me that Prophesie and Ministery or Ministery and Teaching or Teaching and Exhortation are in the Apostles sense all one or one the genus and the other the species And yet Mr. Gillespy hath done most learnedly accurately in that point 3. Difference of gifts without an institution from God cannot make a different office James and John it may be had a speciall gift of terrifying sinners and are called sonnes of thunder Mark 3 17. and Joses a speciall gift of comforting weak Saints and called the son of consolation Act. 4.36 Yet no man will upon this ground conclude them to be different officers one Pastor may be excellent in one gift another in another possibly some men may be excellent in both gifts Paraeus himself a little after the place by you cited saith The Apostles did excell in both gifts and they are indeed common parts of the Episcopal or Pastoral office and therefore are conjoyned 1 Cor. 14.4 And it is evident 1. That every Pastor should be apt to teach 1 Tim. 3.3 which word is of the same originall with this in Ephes 4.11 2. That Pastors are called Teachers the very word that is here 1 Cor. 12.28 which runs paralel with this Text may be well fetchr into explicate it and also in Isa 30.20 Act. 13.1 3. The Scripture doth ascribe the work of feeding with knowledge and understanding which upon supposall of the distinction of these officers is the work of the Teacher unto the Pastor Jer. 3.15 And lastly words joyned together by a conjunction copulative are often exegetical and explicative one of another as in the example produced by me 1 Pet. 2.25 And the Apostle purposely omits the distinguishing and dividing particle some inserting it between Apostles and Evangelists but not between Pastors or Shepherds for the word is the same with 1 Pet. 2.25 and Teachers where Teachers tels us what he means by Shepherds as Bishop doth expound Shepherd in the other place And there is no parallel in all the Scripture doth prove that And doth stand for Some From all which jointly considered I conclude That Ephes 4.11 is not sufficient pertinent and full of power to prove that Pastors and Teachers are by Gods institution distinct officers And your selves also seem so to think when you conclude your Reply p. 70. with these words So that if we do put a false glosse upon the Scripture by misinterpreting Ephes 4.11 c. CHAP. XXIV Whether every particular Assembly be Sion the place of Gods speciall presence Sect. 1. WHen I say that every particular Congregation is not Sion but one of the Assemblies of Sion Isa 4.5 That the Hebrewes which were divided into many Congregations are not said to be come to many mount Sions but to mount Sion Heb. 12. And that the Scripture warrants not the expression of an hundred or a thousand Sions You reply p. 71. That Sion was a mountain contiguous to Moriah upon which the Temple was built in which God vouchsafed a speciall presence and unto which the Tribes went up and by a metonymy is frequently

there are an hundred or a thousand Churches I affirm it is a far greater absurdity for Churches is a term used in the Old as well as in the New Testament for particular assemblies meeting for the worship of God as hath been shewed but Sions is a term not read in the Old or New Testament as your selves do silently confesse for though you be put upon that work yet you do not shew it Sect. 4. When I ask whether you have not found God present in our assemblies have not you by faith closed with the promises of God in the use of ordinances amongst us You grant that God is present with us in our assemblies nor dare you deny though you do not expresly grant it that he hath promised his presence to us or that you sometimes did by faith close with the promises in ordinances amongst us 2. But you assert that God is most present vouchsafeth a speciall presence with his people gathered into a body compacted together in an instituted Congregational Church which you call the order of the Gospel the way of Christ concerning which I demand 1. Have both of you and your Members since your entrance into the Church-way felt such a speciall presence of Christ in ordinances as none of you did before 2. If your way be not the way of Christ and the order of the Gospel is not then the conceit of a greater and more speciall presence of Christ in your way a strong delusion As when men fall off from your Congregations to Antinomianisme Libertinisme Familisme or but rigid Separation they perswade themselves you know that they haue a greater and more speciall presence of Christ after they have left you then when they were with you If I have solidly answered your Book which I leave almighty God and ingenious impartiall Saints to judge of then your way is not the order of the Gospel nor the way of Christ 3. That God might give his presence though there be some error you grant alledging Rev. 2.1 with Rev. 2.14.20 and afterwards you say He vouchsafeth a speciall presence amongst such Churches Rev. 2.1 So then God not only might but he doth give his presence yea his especiall presence to such Churches as have not only some error but grosse error for all the seven Churches of Asia were golden candlesticks and God walked in the midst viz. equally neer to each of them notwithstanding Balaamites Nicolaitans Jezebelians many that had a name to live and were dead many that had defiled their garments viz. were visibly wicked many lukewarme c. were amongst them only Philadelphia had nothing reprehensible by which Mr. Brightman who so long since prophesied of these times conceives the Church of Scotland to be typified by the Spirit of God will you say that all the 7 Churches were alike in the way of Christ in the order of the Gospel or will you revoke your own speech that Christ was specially present with them Surely if God should not vouchsafe his speciall presence where there are some errors and grosse ones too your Churches should not have it Sect. 5. Whereas Mat. 18.20 is alledged to prove that Christ hath promised his speciall presence to a Congregationall church above all other societies and persons I answered 1. That Christ in that place promised his presence to those which are not a Church even to two or three which will not make a Church 2. That faithfull people though women whether Church-members or no are not to be excluded from this promise though they make not a Congregationall church And 3. That Christs presence is promised to the Apostles and their successors the Elders Mat. 28.20 and to the assemblies of Sion or Churches jointly as well as severally Isa 4.5 Rev. 2.1 21.22 23. 22.3 4 5. To which you reply p. 73. There is a figure in the number a certain number put for an uncertain two or three are put for a few the Paucity that may be in a Church shall be no obstacle of his presence Pareus upon these words It is an argument that the judgement of the Church shall be ratified because Christ himself will be present as supreme Judge to ratifie it it is also a generall promise of the presence of the grace of Christ in his Church be it great or small Now surely say you we shall lesse doubt of our exposition having so learned and well-approved a Commentator to stand by us in it Rejoynd 1. What is that figure and where is it found v. 17. or v. 20. or both If not both how doth it appear that the one is literall and the other figurative Mr. Cotton saith Way p. 53. that those two or three are not considered as a Church-body but as a sufficient number of witnesses to joyn with the brother offended Mr. Voyes another N. E. man saith those two or three do refer to the Preshyterie and so you may well doubt of your exposition having such godly learned Divines of your own way against you in it 3. I durst appeal to you whether you would interpret two or three in v. 7. two or three v. 20. after a different manner if it were not as you conceive for the advantage of your cause 4. It is too familiar a thing with you to alledge one or two Commentators interpreting a Text thus or so whereas your selves know that if the controversie between you and me should be determined by the major part of the godliest and learnedest Commentators your part would be nothing nor are you ignorant that even godly men writing against the Papists and being then not in fear of contrary errors did write lesse cautelously then otherwise they would have done CHAP. XXV Who are without in the Apostles sense 1 COR. 5. Sect. 1. I Said that those without of whom the Apostle speaks were unbelievers Pagans and Heathens without Christ without visible profession of Christianity for so I meant and out of the universall visible Church as well as out of a particular Church To which you reply that those without whom the Apostle had not to do with stand in opposition to those within the Church of Corinth Rejoynd It is harsh to say that the members of the church of Jerusalem Rome c. should be without to them that were of Corinth or that a visible Christian not joyned to some particular Church should be excluded out of the universall Church Paul Act. 9. and the Eunuch Act. 8. were of the visible Church before they were joyned to any particular Congregation It Paul had converted those women Act. 16. which could not have been brought into an organicall congregation they might have been baptized and so counted within the Church A man may be detained by violence from joyning driven away by persecution incommunicated it may be unjustly in which case he is not a member of a particular church it were hard therefore to say he is without the visible church They that are without are