Gentiles converted to the Faith The Argument is clear and undenyable GOD the Searcher of hearts hath born witnesse to the Gentiles by giving to them the Holy Ghost as well as to the Circumcised Jews and without putting difference purifying their hearts through faith in JESUS CHRIST Preached by the Gospel alone without Circumcision and other Ceremoniall Performances Therefore it is his will that Circumcision c. bee not imposed upon them as not being necessary to Justification and Salvation This is the plaine and sole intention and drift of that Passage of Scripture But sure I am 't is to little or no purpose for Mr. Lockiers purpose For howsoever it be true that 't is clear from this Text that there was a work of effectuall saving grace amongst these Gentiles spoken of and I do agree with him this far that it were dangerous yea most clearly false and contradictory to the words of the Text to affirm that these expressions might not mean effectuall saving grace yet I say first that the Apostle Peter was not here speaking of this work of saving grace as the necessary qualification for constituting persons capable of Visible Church-membership 2. Albeit in these expressions spoken of the Gentiles there be not definitely a restriction to some only as M◠Lockier would seem to insinuate that we say yet the expressions are such as may be verified being understood of some only and not of all and every one because they are indefinitè Any Boy that hes learned the Rudiments of Logick knowes that there are enunciations particular which speaks of some of a kind definitely and enunciations universall which speaks of all and every one of a kind definitely and enunciations indefinitè which in their form speaks neither of some only nor of all and every one of a kind definitely but indefinitely of the kind and that such indefinite enunciations may be truely exponed either particularly of some only or universally of all and every one proratione materiae contingentis vel necessariae according as the nature of the things contingent or necessary leadeth us But now will the Author upon serious deliberation say that which he hes uttered here viz. that what the Apostle speaketh in the Text of the Gentiles indefinitly viz. that God had purified their hearts by believing must be understood universally of all and every one of them that were turned to Christianitie Nay I know he 'll salve the matter with his qualification according to what Christian can discern of Christian and so far as men c. But 1. This is an addition to the Text whereof there is not the least insinuation in the Text. 2. Yea the Text speaks clearly of such a purifying of hearts as is in veritate rei seu objecti i. e. indeed because it speaks of it in relation to the knowledge and Judgement of GOD the searcher of hearts whose Judgement is alwayes according to Truth But men esteemed to have hearts purified in the charitative judgement of men let them be the most discerning men may notwithstanding not have purifyed hearts indeed section 14 The Author having done with what we have hitherto been considering concludes and draws towards the Proposal of his Doctrine thus Having thus painfully and plainly laid the foundation by the Word and by a simple and sincere judgment thereupon without the least respect to any party or self-interest in the world as he knoweth to whom in this as in all my wayes I desire humbly to refer my self I build thereupon this doctrine c. pag. 7. To which It may be humbly conceived that the Author might have spared to speak of his painfulnesse and plainnesse c. and suffered the deed to speak alone for it self and other men to judge thereupon remembring that Let another man praise thee and not thine own mouth But to passe this grant that there has been some painfulnesse in the preceeding Discourse yet if therein there has been plainly or at all by the Word of God a foundation laid for the ensuing Doctrine I submit to be judged by any impartiall discerning man upon consideration of what hath been answered Thus I have done with the first Section wherein if I have been somewhat large yet I desire and hope the Reader will pardon it considering that the Discourse I have been examining is laid down as the foundation of the Doctrine following and that besides the Text sundry other Scriptures brought in to make the Text speak for it were to be considered SECTION II. Mr. Lockyers Doctrine pondered and the State of the Controversie between Us and the INDEPENDENT BRETHREN touching the necessary Qualification of Members of the VISIBLE CHURCH cleared section 1 MR. Lockiers determination touching the matter of a Visible Church is pag. 7. fine and pag. 8. propounded in these words The proper and allowed matter of a Visible Church now in the dayes of the Gospel is persons truly converted such as God who knoweth the hearts of all men can bear witnesse of as indeed sealed for his by his Holy Spirit thus far he hath in a different Character and then addeth it would seem by way of some explication I say this is the matter we ought now to take to raise again the Tabernacle of David and none other not one other no not in a whole Church so far as men truly converted and very spirituall are able to discern and judge section 2 First I desire humbly to know of the Author why he restricteth this Doctrine touching this point to the Visible Church now in the dayes of the Gospel For 1 I had ever thought it the received Doctrine of all Orthodox Reformed Divines that the Churches of the Old and of the New Test are of one and the same nature as to essentials and that the difference between them standeth in accidentals only 2. Why do many of his way-bring Arguments for this his Tenet touching the allowed matter of a Visible Church from Passages of the Old Test spoken in relation to the then Church 3. If the Visible Church in the dayes of the Old Test might have consisted of others as allowed matter then are described here which his restriction insinuateth i. e. of persons not truly converted c. then to borrow his Arguments brought afterward 1. Either Christ was not the Rock and foundation of that Church and that Church not a building being and bearing upon him as a superstruction or else then there might have been no Symmetrie but Antilogie and Antistasie no agreement but a fighting of the materials of the building with the foundation and one with another and yet the building might stand well enough such incongruous superstructions and unsuiteable to the foundation were good enough then 2. Either that Church was not the Church of the living God such as in which God lives dwels and walks or then God did live and dwell in dead persons who only make a Profession of Religion and then either the Church was
and triall as is a sufficient ground whereupon the Church may and ought to esteem and judge the person truly gracious regenerate and endued with true saving faith and repentance in a word a true inward Saint or if somewhat else section 13 As for the Tenet of the Independent Brethren all of them speak not the same way Mr. Hooker Survey part 1. c. 2. pag. 20 21. confesseth that the expressions of some of his Brethren as well as those of the Separation are somewhat narrow at the first sight and seem to require exactnesse of the highest strain and so speaks for a candide interpretation of them to wit that when such Phrases of theirs occurre upon this Subject as these Onely the Saints faithfull called and sanctified are to be members of the Congregation such a construction as this be put upon these words persons visibly externally such to the judgement of charity not alwayes really and internally such by the powerfull impression of Gods free grace Certainly some of them have so roundly affirmed that none should be acknowledged members of the visible Church but such as are true internall Saints that hardly can such a construction be put upon their words See D. Holmes and Mr. Barclets expressions set down by Daniel Cawdry in his Schem of contradictions in the Independent way n. 17. And Mr. Lockiers expressions of this purpose along his Lecture can as hardly suffer such a construction Others of them indeed have spoken more warily and in a lower strain as Mr. Hooker himself stating the Question p. 1. pag. 15. tells us persons who may be are hypocrites inwardly yet if their conversations and expressions be such that we cannot but conclude in charity there may be and is some spirituall good in them we say and hope and are bound to conceive they are Saints these are fit mater of a Visible Church Only it is to be observed that it cannot be well discerned by his words whether he meaneth a * By a positive judgement wee meane the elicting of an act of the understanding whereby we affirme the man to be such and by a negative judgement the abstaining from affirmation of the contrarie negative judgment of charity or a positive his words as to this are so wavering and fluctuating and that very remarkably pag. 14. end and 15. begin he speaketh of the mater thus So far as rationall charity directed by rule from the Word a man can not but conclude that there may be some seeds of some spiritual work of grace in the heart Here if we look at these words A man can not but conclude one would think that a positive judgement were intended for that expression doth import a necessity of elicting positively an act of judgement affirming of the subject that form touching which the Question is But the next word which is but a may be nothing being more said there before he concludeth the description of Visible Saints seemeth to cast down that and to import lesse Then a little after he expresseth clearly a positive judgement we say and hope and are bound to conceive they are Saints Again in propounding the state of the Question the mater is involved in a cloud We cannot conclude but in charity there may be and is some spirituall good in them c. If we look at that we cannot conclude but c. one would think only a negative judgment were intended for these words import no more but a necessity of abstaining from an act of judgment whereby the form in Question is denyed of the subject or the contrair thereunto affirmed But when it is added there may be and is c this seems to speak for a positive Before it was we cannot but conclude and therewith there may be only Now it is we cannot conclude but and herewith there may be and is I verily think the godly man has been at a puzzle in his conceptions about the mater Of all the Brethren of the Independent way whose Writings I have had occasion to see Mr. Nortoun in his Answer to Gulliel Apoll. his Questions are most mâ—derate and come nearest to the truth In many particulars he cometh below that which is required by most part of all others of that way particularly in that expresly he asserteth that it is not a positive judgement but only negative that we are to have of the grace of Church-members c. 1. that we are not positively to judge ill of them section 14 But not to insist on these differences this in generall is their common Tenet that only such can be taken to be members of the Visible Church whether as foundationalls at the first gathering of the Church or as additionalls by admission into fellowship of the Church as may and ought to be accompted in the judgement of charity true heart-beleevers having reall communion with Christ and that upon sufficient evidences given thereof 1. By knowledge in the Fundamentall points of Religion and such other as are requisite and necessary to be known for leading a life without scandal 2. An experimentall work of Grace upon their hearts of Repentance towards God and Faith in the LORD JESUS CHRIST 3. A conversation not only without scandall and offence before men indeed Norton goeth no further but also without neglect of any known duty and commission of any known ill concerning which they must be a good space tryed first in a way privat if the Church be a gathering by one another mutually untill they be mutually satisfied in the judgement of charity touching the truth of the grace of each other If it be in the admission of additionall members the triall is first by the Ruling Elder or Elders both by way of diligent enquiry for information from others and by way of conference with and examination of the parties themselves Then all things being clear and satisfactory to the Elder the person being propounded to the Church the people also must as opportunity may serve them try their spirituall condition and that both wayes too If these find no realitie of satisfaction they present their dissatisfaction to the Elder or Elders which stayes the proceeding for the present But if satisfaction hath been gotten by Elders and People in this privat way then the persons to be admitted must further every one after another if it be at the first gathering of the Church make first a publick confession of their knowledge and faith in the grounds of Religion then a declaration of the experimentall work of their effectuall vocation 1. In Repentance from dead works 2. In their unfeigned faith towards the Lord Jesus and then must produce if required a testimony of their blamelesse conversation For a testimony to my faithfulnesse in this representation of their Doctrine I refer the Reader to these on the Margent * Hookers Survey p. 1. c. 2. pag. 14 15 24 25. p. 3. cap. 3. pag. 4 â— Brief Narrat of the pract of the Churches of N. E. pa.
1 2 8 9. Mr. Cottons way cap. 3. sect 2. pag. 54 55. sect 3. pag. 56 57 58. So in a word their Doctrine in this point is that none are to be received members into externall fellowship of the Visible Church but such as are already true heart-converts indued with saving grace and having reall internall fellowship with Christ in the judgement of charity grounded upon such triall and evidences as we have heard section 15 As for our judgement in the controversie I mean of the Church of Scotland at which the adversaries especially this with whom we have to do mainly hath an eye Albeit we know no Protestant Church in the world differing from us in this but the Independents scarcely shall you find any of our adversaries directly make a proposall of it what it is but for the most part as they give intimations thereof here and there would bear men in hand that we do allow any whosoever professe the Christian faith although their lives and conversations were never so wicked and prophane to be fit matter and members of the Visible Church Which is I must say much want of ingenuitie in them and great injurie done to us as will appear shortly So Mr. Lockier along this Peece intimating our Doctrine speaks alwayes of persons meerly professing the things of God But I wonder much how that did fall from the Pen of Reverend Mr. Hooker speaking of our judgement Surv. p. 1. c. 2. pag. 20. The pinch of the difference lyeth in this whether such as walk in a way of prophanenesse or remain pertinaciously obstinate in some wickednesse though otherwayes professing and practising the things of the Gospel have any allowance from Christ or may be accounted fit mater to constitute a Church this is that which is controverted and should have been evicted by Argument he is speaking to Mr. Rutherfurd Good Mr. Hooker where did you ever read such an assertion as this in Mr. Rutherfurd or any of ours I need not stay upon vindicating Mr. Rutherfurd in this he will do it ere long himself I shall only plainly propound our Judgment upon the Question in these two Conclusions section 16 1. Conclus True heart conversion regeneration sanctificatiâ—… inward saving grace in reality of existence or conceived at 〈…〉 to be in the judgement of charitie is not requisite as the qualification necessary in the Ecclesiastick Court in order to admitting persons to be members of the Visible Church Or thus to the same purpose it is not necessary nor requisite to the effect that persons be accounted fit mater of the Visible Church that they be such as upon tryall and approven evidences may and ought to be conceived in the judgement of charity by the Church already inwardly regenerate sanctified taken into reall fellowship with Christ And therefore we judge it altogether unwarrantable to put such as are desirous of the externall fellowship of the Visible Church to such tryalls touching the work of saving grace in their hearts in order to admitting into Church-fellowship and as antecedently necessary thereunto as is tanght and practised by Independents and set down summarly here a little before section 17 2. Conclus A serious sober outward profession of the faith and true Christian Religion together with a serious profession of forsaking former sinfull courses if the person be one coming out of heathenisme or some false Religion or an outward conversation free of scandall at least accompanied with obstinacy if he hath been a Christian in Profession before and a serious Profession of subjection unto the Ordinances of Christ A serious profession of these things I say as such considered abstractly abstractione simplici from the work of inward saving grace and heart-conversion by true Repentance and Faith is sufficient qualification in the Ecclesiastick Court to constitute a person fit mater to be received as a member of the Visible Church and accounted 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. amongst these that are within If it be asked what I mean by a serious profession I Ans Such a profession as hath in it at least a morall sincerity as practick Divines are wont to distinguish tho haply not alwayes a supernaturall sinceritie i. e. that I may speak more plainly which is not openly and discernably simulate histrionick scenicall and hypocriticall in that hypocrisie which is grosse but all circumstances being considered by which ingenuity is estimate amongst men giving credit one to another there appears no reason why the man may not and ought not to be esteemed as to the mater to think and purpose as he speaketh from whatsoever habituall principle it proceedeth whether viz. of saving grace and faith or of faith historicall and conviction wroâ—… by some common operation of the Spirit A man that hath such a profession as this and desireth Church-communion I say the Church ought to receive him as a member And albeit I deny not but where there is just or probable ground of suspition that the profession hath simulation and fraudulent dealing under it as in one new come from a hereticall Reâ—igion or who has been before a persecutor of the faith and professours thereof there may be a delay in prudencie and time taken to try and prove if he dealeth seriously and ingenuously but that tryall must not be to cognosce upon the truth of the work of saving grace in the heart Pastours indeed ought wisely and diligently try and acquaint themselves as far as they can with the spirituall state of all the members of their flock that they may the better know to divide the Word of God aright giving to every one their suitable portion that beginners may be promoved in the grace of Christ and such as are yet in a naturall state may be awakened to slee from the wrath to come But I utterly deny that such a tryall of persons touching the truth of the work of grace in their hearts is antecedently and in order to their admission necessary and in duty incumbent to the Church that is to admit them section 18 Having thus stated the Question and bounded the differences about it it would follow that we should in the next place bring Arguments to confirm what we hold for truth and to refute the contrary Which method we would have followed were we not upon the examination of a particular Peece of an adversary whose method we resolve to trace step for step Therefore proceeds now to consider his Arguments what force they have to confirm his or infringe our Doctrine Afterward having considered what Objections he brings against himself as ours and his answers to the same we shall adde some such other Arguments as may be satisfactory to Readers and the Author may if he think fit take to his consideration SECTION III. Mr. Lockyers first Classe of Arguments viz. Texts of SCRIPTURE Act. 9. 26. Act. 2. 47. Heb. 3. 5 6. brought as directly holding forth his Doctrine answered section 1 HIs Arguments are of four
probable appearances of the one or the other sort of characters accordingly to presse upon persons the one more then the other 3. Nor deny I but it belongs to the duty of a Minister seriously and attentively to observe with wisdome so far as he can the way of such as are under his charge to discern and understand so far as may be their spirituall condition and estate and that he may have a probable judgement of discretion concerning the same this is necessary 〈◊〉 behovefull for him that he may rhe better know how to perform that duty of dividing the Word of God aright In effect it is no small part of a Ministers study to study the condition of his flock yea this in some way is incumbent to every particular Christian in relation to others with whom they converse that they may be able the more accommodatly and ptofitably to exhort and provoke one another to good works But this I deny that God has given to any man or society of men power and authority judicially to cognosce upon the spirituall estate of every professour of the Gospel and positively to pronounce every professour of the Gospel upon such cognition to be held a regenerat man and in the estate of grace or to be held unregenerat and yet in the state of nature Which yet Mr. Lockier must needs force say by consequence of his Docttine touching the qualification of Church mater or members But now let him or any man shew me from the Word of God any authentick Divine patent or commission of this power given to any man or society of men in the world The Lord has indeed given to the Church or rather to the Officers in the Church a power authoritatively to cognosce upon all professours outward actions and to determine judicially whether sinfull and scandalous or not but to cognosce determine and judge judicially and positively upon their inward Spirituall estate we read not any where that he hath given power to men this he hath reserved as a prerogative to himself to be exercised openly at last in the day of Judgement before all Men and Angells and in this life secretly by his Word and Spirit in the court of mens consciences when it seems good to himself And this is the very ground the Apostle Rom. 14. goeth upon in disswading men to judge one another Which certainly must be understood of their Spirituall estates and not their actions Because these without question may be lawfully and warrantably be judged see v. 9 10 11 12 13. of that chap. section 15 Arg. 3 Which will also serve to confirme the preceeding If it had been our Lords will and institution that true heart godlinesse conversion and faith so far as men can discerne should be the necessary qualification to constitute persons capable of Visible-Church-Membership and consequently had instituted a power and authority to cognosce and passe judgement positively upon them concerning the inward work of Grace in their heart whither they be truely regenerate or not that upon such judgement they might be admitted unto or debarred from the fellowship of the Visible Church Then sure he would given in his word a rule of ◠tryall for regulating the Churches cognition judgement and determination in this mater expressing the particular characters and evidences which being found in persons they might be positively judged regenerate and converted Yea and the minimum quod sic that is the lowest degree and measure of such characters lesse then which if Professours should be found to have they are to be accounted non-regenerate or at least not to be counted Regenerate But there is no such rule in the Word of God therefore c. The connexion of the proposition is certain and evident and as I conceive cannot be denyed by any man For first it cannot be conceived how it can consist with the Wisdome of God that he would have ordained that only persons so and so qualified should be admitted to the fellowship of the Church and all others debarred And that the Church should have power to cognosce And positively to judge every professour that they are so qualified or not in relation to admitting or excluding them And yet not have prescribed a definite rule for regulating the Churches cognition and judgement of rhis But left it without rule to men in their consciences as both judge and rule to determine who is to be held regenerate or not certainly this cannot consist with humane let be divine wisedome Alas even gracious men being of very different and unequall syzes of light and discerning could not but vary much one from another so that oftentimes their would be tot sententiae quot capita Then any man will readily vary from himself at diverse times Yea the best of men are subject to sinfull affections which may and would no doubt oftentimes by-asse the judgements as having no small influence thereupon And so what confusions disorders yea and oftentimes grievous injuries to persons in the mater of admission into or exclusion from the fellowship of the Church might not this open a door to if the mater were committed wholly to mans judgement without law or rule Therefore it must be confessed that there must be a rule for regulating the Churches cognition and judgement in this mater which the opposites will not deny 2. This rule must be such as holdeth forth not only the particular characters upon the having or wanting of which the Church must cognosce and accordingly as is found to judge men Regenerate or not But also the very minimum quod sic the lowest degree and measure whereupon the judgement of the Church is to proceed My meaning to speak as plainly as I can to the weaker sort is this the rule must declare how much is sufficient and necessary at least to ground a positive judgement that a man is Regenerate of which if a man come short or have any wayes lesse he is to be reputed non-Regenerate at least not to be reputed Regenerate which according to Mr. Lockiers Doctrine debars him from being received as a Member of the Church The reason of this is clear because otherwise the mater should be left in a meer uncertaintie and in effect devolved upon the meer arbitrement of the Churches judgement if to wit the rule should say no more but indefinitely a man that he may be positively judged a true Regenerate Convert must have some knowledge of the Articles of Religion experience of effectuall calling unto Faith and Repentance and conformity of conversation to the Gospel Not determining definitely this or thus much at least he must have which if he have he is to be judged and reputed truely Regenerated and if he come short of this much not section 16 Now for the assumption let it be noted first we deny not but God hath set down in his Word a Rule definite and certain Characters and Signes whereby every Christian having knowledge thereof
impossible for them to have any certain cognition of by ordinary discerning because a man may live in a known sin of omission or commission such to wit whereof as Mr. Hooker himself speaketh he is informed and convinced by the power of the word and evidence of reason which is secret and falls not under the cognition of any outward Judicatory Mr. Norton saith somewhat more purposely that it must be a conversation without scandall that is offence before men And Mr. Hooker himself a little after he hath laid down the rule wavering from himself as indeed in handling this Question about the necessary qualification of Church members he is exceeding uncertain in expressing his mind he speaks not of living in any known sin but of committing some grosse evill But then 2. Is freedome from living in grosse evills or outward scandalls ground sufficient with a profession of the truth for the Church to passe a positive sentence or judgement that a man is regenerat and really in Christ I think indeed it may be a ground to keep us from positive judging the contrary of them which in effect is nothing else but to abstract from positive judging of their inward spirituall condition at all 3. If not living in the neglect of any known duty i. e. living in the performance of all known duty or if he will all known duties obvious to the notice of men and not living in the commission of any known evill i. e. living in abstinence from any known evill or if he will obvious to the notice of men must be the ground whereupon to proceed upon this judgement to be passed upon a mans regeneration in relation to his admission to the Visible Church and this living importeth a trade as Mr. Hooker exponeth that is a continued course Then I would enquire how long time living so is sufficient to ground the Ecclesiastick judgement and lesse then which will not serve the turn This was necessary to have been determined that the rule might be certain i. e. definite and constant that the mater might not be devolved upon the arbitrement of mans judgement or rather pleasure Here is altum silentium and so again the mater left in the mist To presse this the more and the more clearly I put the case the person desiring to be admitted to the fellowship of the Church and so to be judged of the Church whether Regenerat or not is one who has been an heathen living before and till that very time in some known sins as many sins are to heathen known sins of omission and commission Now I inquire how long time must be taken to evidence him not to be a liver in these known sins to the effect that a positive judgement may passe upon him that he is Regenerat Let a positive Answer be given to this If any shall say a definite time is not necessary for trying such an one if he have Repentance for these sins and as soon as he hath it it is enough according to what Mr. Norton speaketh conversatio absque scandalo paenitentiâ non sanato then I say Repentance here must be understood either as comprehending the inward grace in the heart but this falls not directly and immediatly under the cognition of the outward Court to be a ground or medium of their procedour into judgement yea it is the very thing or a part of the thing which is to be concluded in the judgement Or it must be taken as only comprehending the outward part of it i. e. Reformation which is nothing else but performing of the duties formerly neglected and abstaining from the evills formerly committed and if so then we are just where we were in the mist yet section 20 3. As for the third ground or part of the rule a declaration of the experimentall work of Conversion or acquaintance with Christ as M◠Hooker expresseth it or as distinctly the Author of the narration of the practices of the Churches of New-England pag. 9. of their effectuall vocation in their sound Repentance towards God and faith towards our Lord Jesus Christ is most unwarrantable and rigid What must this be a generall rule for all professours that they must make a declaration of this experimentall work upon their heart that they may be judged Regenerat and Converts and so capable of admission to the Visible Church What warrant for this in the Word The places pointed at by that last Author Mat. 3. 8. Luke 3. 8. Acts 8. 37. does not warrand any such thing In the former two John Baptist indeed charged these people to perform really the work of Reformation and Repentance that they might not delude themselves with vain imaginations of interest in God upon common priviledges But requireth not of them a declaration of the experimentall work thereof upon their hearts that thereupon a positive judgement might be passed concerning the truth of the work in their heart So in the place Acts 8 37. Philip tells the Eunuch what is his duety in relation to the susception of Baptism that he beleeve with all his heart And together I confesse insinuateth the requiring of a profession of so much that he might Administrat baptisme to him But neither does Philip require nor the Eunuch make a declaration of the experimentall work in his heart in relation to passing a positive judgement concerning the inexistence of the work in his heart Verily were this made an universall rule or ground whereby to judge of professours Conversion and consequently of their admission unto Church fellowship many an honest gracious soul should never obtain such a judgement upon them while they live there being many such who put them to declarations of this kind could say little or nothing He that were best read in practicall tractats of the nature of Repentance and Faith and the way of the Spirits working of these and had a gift of utterance should carry the fairest sentence what ever were the reall work in his heart if he could but carry fair outwardly in his conversation as an hypocrite may without scandall Nay it were in effect to erect a stage for hypocrites to out themselves upon and to cast a stumbling block in the way of honest hearts not indued with the gift of expressing themselves I deny not but good use may be made of drawing out of Christians what experience they find of the work of the spirit upon their hearts and conferences between Ministers and People and between Christians among themselves may and ought prudently to be exercised for that end But I speak against the making of declarations of this sort a generall rule and ground for judiciall tryall and passing judgement concerning the Regeneration and Conversion of Professours section 21 To conclude this Argument when these particulars held forth by the Word of God are considered and laid together 1. That Regeneration and Conversion being an inward work in the heart no judgement can be made thereupon by man but by
Christian Religion had also the inward work of gracious conversion and faith in their heart This had been contrary to truth for some of the converted Heathens no doubt had no more but the profession of Christianity the preaching of the Gospel being as a draw net that catches good fishes and bad together and the outward Kingdom of GOD as a field wherein are tares and wheat growing together Nor yet can it be said that Paul and Barnabas in that declaration meant that all and every one of these Gentiles they spake of were such viz. true heart-converts to their positive judgement and so far as men truely converted and very spirituall were able to discern This appears not out of the words of the Text for first I think the Apostle speaks of Conversion as including gracious heart-conversion in the verity of the thing or Object and not only in the charitative judgement of discerning men tho not restrictively Mr. Lockiers additament viz. According to what a Christian can discern of a Christian or in so far as men c. is his own and not the Texts yea I conceive 't is contrary to the intention of the Text because I no wayes doubt but the Apostles meant positively that there was amongst these Gentiles heart-conversion in the verity of the thing But that which Mr. Lockier sayes by his additament may be contradictorily opposite to that men may be accounted heart-converts in the charitable judgement of very discerning Christians and yet not be heart-converts indeed 2. Granting that to be the meaning which Mr. Lockier saith to be in his additament yet can any thing be alledged from the words that will import it must be understood universaliter de omnibus singulis i. e. universally of all and every one of these Gentiles and may not be understood as spoken only de multitudine communiter indefiâ—itè i. e. of the multitude of them yet forasmuch as Mr. Lockier hath not alledged much lesse proved the former hitherto he hath alledged nothing to his purpose in hand And yet although he hath both alledged and proven this much he had said but little to his purpose unlesse he could also prove that the Apostles in that declaration were speaking of these converted Gentiles with relation to stating in visible Church-membership which thing he onely supposeth but doth not so much as hint at a proof thereof from this Text. section 6 But go we on to consider his Arguments brought to prove his interpretation of Conversion here spoken of which yet he needed not prove for we have granted more of it then he craves that we may see if there be any thing therein making for his main purpose The 1. lyeth in these words Surely if the Brethren had apprehended no more in them i. e. the Gentiles of whom Paul and Barnabas spake viz. then a meer outside conversion they would have had little matter of great joy Answ 1. We say not that the apprehending of no more was the matter of this their great joy but will the Author say that unlesse they had apprehended more then outside conversion in all and every one of them which is a thing he must of necessity take along with him if he will say any thing to his purpose * For his minde is that these Gentiles are spoken of in relation and as matter of a visible Church his doctrin is that none other not one other no not in a whole Church are fit matter of a visible Church but such as are c. they would had little matter for great joy I think hee 'll be advised before he say so 2. Nor am I of the mind that outside conversion i. e. embracing of the Profession of the Gospel and Christian Religion is so litle a matter of joy to the people of God as the Author seems to make account Sure it could not but be matter of right great joy to the LORDS true people of the Jews for to see Japhet perswaded to dwell in the tents of Shem i. e. the Gentiles by embracing the profession of the Gospel added to the Common-wealth of Israel and fellowship of the Church of God And it shall be no small matter of joy to Gentile-Christians when they shall see the body of the Jews ingraffed again into the Church Even outward professing of and submitting to the Gospel is honourable to Christ in the world and so is spoken of in Scripture though it alone be not the full duty of men nor sufficient to save them section 7 I might ere I went on further note here that whereas the Author in the next words propounds the explaining of moe tearms then one of his Text for saith he let us take tearms as they ly and see how other Scriptures do explain them yet in the following discourse I find all runs upon one tearm viz. conversion or converted ones But to insist upon every such small thing is not worth the while Let us see what is said further upon that what these converted ones saith he were according to what Christian can discern of Christian is the thing to be inquired into pag. 3. Ans Nay not this only but two other things also ought to have been inquired into and made out 1. Supposing that true heart-conversion is understood here that the Apostles in their declaration affirmed this universally of all and every one of these Gentiles 2. That in declaring and affirming this they did speak with relation to their stating in Church-membership at least that the Historian Luke reports it in that relation Neither of which the Author proveth or so much as once undertaketh to prove so that what followeth tho granted makes little for the point he driveth at But we go on Paul and Barnabas who were master-builders and surely very seeing men that they might not make a meer report took of those converted ones with them were brought on by the Church We tell you as if they had said of such glad tydings touching the Gentiles but what they are see your selves here they are discourse with them see if they have not the same soul-complexion with your selves whether they have not received the same spirit of Adoption owning and experiencing the same grace of God which ye do Ans Here 's a pretty fiction or Poesie but nothing of Lukes Text yea but something quite contrair to it 1. The Author saith Paul and Barnabas that they might not make a meer report viz. touching the Gentiles conversion but might shew living present instances thereof took of those converted ones with them What hint can he give us from the Text for this it saith a farre other thing viz. first that they i. e. the Church of Antioch ordained some in joint commission for to go to Jerusalem about the question then in controversie and then that these CoÌ„missioners were brought on their way by the Church i. e. as Grotius exponeth it will aliquousque deducti à fidelium quibusdam i. e.
not a pillar and ground to bear up truth unto the world or dead persons who only made a Profession of Religion might have done that office well enough 3. Then either in the Church of God there was none at least there might have been a true Church offering and yet no pure offering no offering spiritualor then a pure offering i. e. service spirituall holy and acceptable unto God might have been offered by persons who only did professe Religion were dead stones having nothing of spirituality in them but meer formality and so hypocriticall and amongst the number of them that are most abominable Let the Author if he hold that difference intimated in his restriction between the Churches of the Old and New Testam extricate himself of these things which I am much deceived if he shall be able to do unlesse either he retract his restriction or otherwise shoar upon some Socinian and Anabaptistick Fancy concerning the ancient Church section 3 Secondly Let it be marked here that Mr. Lockier clearly asserteth that the necessary and essentiall qualification absolutely requisite to constitute persons matter or in a capacity to be Members of a Visible Church is true saving Grace known to God the searcher of hearts and that is such grace in the verity of the thing and not only in the judgment of charity Others in the Independent way have spoken more warily in this matter though indeed I confesse I do not see how considering their prosecution of the point and the Arguments they use in it they do not run into this same in the issue However it may hence appear it was not for nought that the Author said in his Epistle to the Reader That he has spoken with more plain dealing then some other of his Brethren who have wrote of this Subject section 4 But haply it may be said that he explaineth himself in the next words viz. so far as men converted are able to discern and judge Which seemeth to import a resolving of the matter into the judgement of charity Ans This seemeth not sufficiently to salve the mater for this additament seemeth to be brought in rather to expresse the mean whereby persons so qualified as is said before viz. truly converted c. are to be found out then to expresse any thing in the objective qualification of the mater of a visible Church And certainly the Arguments brought afterward by the Author to confirm his Thesis speak all for men godly in the truth of the thing as will appear when we come at them section 5 The third thing I would have marked in the Authors proposall of his Doctrine is this that the judges by whose estimation men are to passe as the qualified mater of a Visible Church are by him determined to be men truely converted and very spirituall All Writers of the Independent way have not I confesse come to my hand but of these I have seen I remember of none that saith this much so that it seemeth to be a new conception of his own touching which I humbly desire satisfaction in these particulars 1. By this when a person desireth to be admitted a member of a Church it followeth that his qualification is to be judged not by the estimation of the whole Church but of some speciall members thereof which is point-blank contrary to the Independent way of Government The consequence I prove 1. thus Either it must be said that all and every one of the Church are truely converted de facto or if that be not said this which we have said doth unavoidably follow but the former will not be undertaken by the Author because it is point-blank contrary to plain Scripture telling us that many are called but few chosen and this is confessed by such as are most peremptory for his way of Church constitution * Barrow discov false Church p. â—…0 Ainsworth Objection Ay but all are true Converts in the judgment of charity Answ Such explanation is not mentioned or hinted by the Author when he speaketh to this point of the Judges by whose estimation Church-mater is to passe 2. I prove the consequence thus Mr. Lockier speaketh of such men to be Judges as are not only truely converted but also very spirituall Now very spirituall importeth I conceive in plain English if not a superlative degree yet certainly somewhat above the meer positive to be very spirituall is more yea much more then simply to be really and truely spirituall So that either he must of necessity say that a Visible Church must consist of such only who are not only simply true converts but also much more far advanced Christians and so new born Babes bruised reeds and smoaking flax must be held out crushed and quenched or that which we said must follow Now I suppose yet further that most part of the Congregation be spirituall but in the positive degree and onely two or three or a few number in comparison be very spiritual certainly this may be by our Brethrens way of constituting a Church for they grant such as have any thing the least thing in truth of Christ appearing in them are not to be excluded then the resolution and judging of the whole businesse must be devolved upon these few Nay I must presse it yet further Albeit it may be granted that when a Church is now compleatly constitute in its integrality and organized with all its members it cannot be well supposed but there will be therein some such men very spirituall at least Rulers whom if so be they had not of themselves while they were yet a gathering yet it may well be supposed that while they are yet but a gathering all of them are but spirituall in the positive degree For what hinders but such a company of persons may come together to gather into a Church Now I pray what shall be done in this case if Church-mater in point of fitnesse must passe by the estimation of men more then positive in spiritualitie Must it be said in such a case that though they be all satisfied in conscience concerning the truth of one anothers conversion Yet they are not fit mater to make themselves a Church I would see semblance or shadow of reason for this Yea it appeareth contrary to sound reason because in homogeneall bodies such as a Church is by the Doctrine of our Brethren in the instance and period we are now speaking to what is sufficient to constitute a part is sufficient also to constitute the whole Therefore if Conversion and spiritualnesse in the positive degree be sufficient for one member of the Visible Church its sufficient also for the whole I mean considered yet as totum homogeneum The Author would do well to assay a clearing and extricating of these things upon his Principles section 6 The fourth thing to be considered is that the Author hath chosen an ambiguous term to be the subject of his thesis not distinguishing nor shewing in what sense he takes
There seemeth to me in Mr. Lockiers words here somewhat very like the Arminian apostacy of Saints while you hold fast saith he the practice and power of what you professe and when you let it go c. is he indeed of this judgement that men may have the practice and power of godlinesse and afterward let it go If he say he meaneth of such as have had it so far as men could judge c. well this qualification if in any place should have been mentioned here where without it there might be so readily an apprehension of apostacy from true grace But tell me doth the Apostle when he saith if ye hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of hope firm unto the end mean thus if ye have and hold fast these things so far as men can judge What vestigium of this appeareth in the Text Nay is not the Apostle in that whole Chapter speaking of grace to be performed and held fast in veritati rei * Which if he wil have to be the requisite qualification of the matter of of the visible Church in the Ecclesiastick Court he may as soon get a Visible Church as a new World in the Moon or Mr Mores Vtopia in very deed Was there ever any Interpreter that expoundeth him otherwise SECTION IV. The Authors Texts which he calls hints and shadows of his Doctrine section 1 THe first is Mat. 16. on which place the Author thus note these things 1. That Christ doth not speak here of the Invisible Church For he speaks of the power of the keyes binding and loosing on earth the Invisible Church is the greatest part in heaven and they which are in earth considered as one with them as one intire universall Body whereof Christ is the Head are not capable of Visible and limited Discipline therefore I judge we are to gather from Christs Words that he speaks by way of anticipation of that visible order which he did purpose to institute after his departure by his Apostles whereof Peter was one 2. Observe of what mater he saith this building should be viz. of such as have a faith which flesh and bloud cannot reveal and to a body thus constitute is the power of the keyes and both these represented and personated to us in Peter I do not find the learned and Orthodox of latter times apply this place to the Invisible Church and I think I am not then a forcer of the Scripture in the sense I gave of it section 2 Answer I wonder much how this has fallen from the Authors mouth and Pen that he saith he doth not find the learned and Orthodox of latter times to apply this place to the Invisible Church Do not all the learned and Orthodox Writing against the Papists on the Controversie of the Church refute the Papists expounding it of the Visible Church and prove it to be understood of the Invisible Church and every member thereof and do not the learned Orthodox commonly Writing against the Arminians upon the controversie of perseverance apply it to the Invisible Church and use it as one of the prime Arguments for proving the certain finall perseverance of true Beleevers See these noted on the Margin Whittaker de Ecclesia centies notentur praesertim illa loca q 1. c 1. Ecclesia aliquando totum corpus electorum fidelium sanctorum significat ut cùm in Symbolo dicitur Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam sic in hoc loco Math. 16. 18. c. 13. par 1. per tot q. 2. c. 1. he propoundeth the Question with the Papists thus De Ecclesiâ in Petra aedificatâ quaeritur inter adversarios nos sitne visibilis an invisibilis And part 3. he determines according to the Protestant Doctrine that it is invisibilis c. 2. Bellarminus dicit Calvinum non potuisse unum Scripturae locum proferre ubi nomen Ecclesiae invisibili Congregationi tribueretur Resp inquit falsum hoc esse nam Ecclesia aliquanâ—o invisibilem Congregationem significat ut in hoc ipso loco quem tractamus Super hanc Petram aedificabo Ecclesiam meam q. 3. c. 2. §. 2. 2 â— Adversargumentum sumitur ex iis locis in quibus nomen Ecclesiae expersse ponitur ut Math. 16. 18. 1 Tim. 3. 15. in utroque loco inquit Adversarius agitari de Ecclesia visibili tamen ipsam veritatem audivimus asserentem portas inferorum non praevalituras Resp inquit Whitt illam quidem Ecclesiam de qua loquitur Christus nunquam posse deficere sed quod assumit illam Ecclesiam de qua loquitur Christus esse visibilem illud affirmo esse falsissimum Here is a plain and round contradiction to M â— Lockiers note upon this place Joan. Alsted suppl Chamier de Eccles nat l. 1. c. 17. par 2. Resp 2. Duo ista loca N. Math. 16. 18. 1 Tim. 3. 15. agunt de Ecclesia Catholica invisibili seu interna quae constat ex solis bonis neque enim Ecclesia visibilis quae constat ex bonis malis est fundata super Petram Anton. Wall Loc. Com. de Ecclesia militant on the question An Ecclesia possit errare in Ans to the 2d. Obj. of Papists upon this place Math 16. 18. Negamus inquit hunc locum esse intelligendum de Ecclesia visibili sed universali invisibili cui proprie competit haec firmitas insuperabilis The Orthodox in Colloq Hagien and Amesius in his Coron presse it as a prime place for the perseverance of Saints We might instance very many moe but we need not the thing is known to all acquainted in Orthodox Writers Nay some eminent Papists themselves have acknowledged that is spoken not of the Visible Church but of the Invisible Ferus non loquitur de Ecclesiâ ut communiter sumitur pro his qui Christiani dicuntur sive boni sint sive mali sed de Ecclesiâ secundum Spiritum quae solos electos complectitur So Cajetan on the same place Adversus Ecclesiam quae constat ex Congregatione fidelium unâ side spe charitate c. Mr. Lockiers reason brought to prove that it is not spoken of the Church Invisible is but weak which will appear the better if it be put into form for it is somewhat confusedly propounded by himself as I conceive it may be thus That Church is understood here which is capable of visible limited Disciplin but the Church Invisible is not capable of this Therefore c. Ans 1. How is the Major or first Proposition proven By insinuation thus He speaks of the power of the keyes binding and loosing on earth What thence Ergo he speaks before of such a Church as is capable of visible limited Discipline If I deny the Consequence how will he prove it I do not see it nor think he shall ever be able to make it out 2. But to passe the Proposition let 's see the proof of the Assumption The
implyes a mans own personall experience of things 2. We say the Apostle in these titles of beloved of God Saints Beleevers meaneth true saving grace truely existing and not in the judgement of charity only But speaketh there not of all the Romanes universaliter distributivè as we say all men are sinners but communiter collectivè confusè i. e. in common collectively and confusedly because undoubtedly saving grace was amongst them and he could not take upon him to determine whether moe or fewer of them were endued with it and as it seems knew nothing to the contrary of any of them particularly but they might be such Thus verily I think the Apostles writing to whole Churches and calling them generally by the name of Saints faithfull c. may well be understood and no other thing can be demonstrate of their meaning Take herewith the judgement of the Learned Commentators on the place all of which do unanimously determine that these titles of Saints faithfull and the like are given by the Apostles to the Churches partly in respect of the end of their calling and the duty of every one in the Church viz. that the end of their calling and their duty is to be such and partly by a denomination taken à parte potiori from the better part because there were true reall Saints and beleevers amongst them And I think it is a worthy and solide consideration which my worthy Collegue in the Ministry and my Reverend Superior in the Colledge I live in hath in his due right of Presbytery pag. 259. in answer to Mr. Cotton upon this same Question and Argument the styles given to the Church of Corinth are too high to be given to hypocrites such as many of Mr. Lockiers truely godly so far as men can judge may be and often are but these styles are not given to that Church precisely as Visible and as a professing Church but as an Invisible and true Church of Beleevers He Writeth to a Visible Church but he doth not speak of them alwayes as a Visible Church but as of an Invisible when he calleth them Temples of the Holy Ghost c. section 4 What we have said ro his alledgeance concerning the Church of Rome is applicable to what is said to the most part of the rest so that we shall not insist much on them Only a word or two of some of them And 1. For the Corinthians after he hath set down what is spoken to them chap. 1. vers 2 4 5 6 7 8. and chap. 4. 15. he subjoyneth persons having such grace in them as shall be confirmed to the end as keepeth them waiting to the coming of the Lord Jesus as are the comfortable seals of a faithfull Ministry that all this should signifie but an outward Profession or to say that this Church should constitute and Congregate together upon any other account but as there was the true grace of God evident as far as men could judge I cannot indeed see Answ 1. Let it be marked how in citing the place chap. 4 15. he maketh an addition to the Text for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you all this all is put in as the Apostles word when as in the Text there is no more but I have begotten you This is a gross foule slip I will not say it hath been done out of designe may be it hes been done inconsiderately without present turning over to the place however adding to the Word of God is a dangerous practice 2. As for that to say that this Church did constitute and gather upon another account c. we have noted on it sufficiently before I adde now this by what Mr. Lockier saith here and indeed by the Doctrine of all the Independent Brethren of his way in this mater of the constitution of the Visible Church it appeareth that their conception about the order of gathering the Visible Church by the Apostles was this that men being first turned to the Profession of Christian Religion there was a tryall made of their evidences of true inward saving grace and such as evidences satisfactory of this were found in these were gathered in and the rest casten by which I dare say is a meer fiction of which not the least vestige can be shown in Scripture and never man dreamed of untill these sad times broodie of many new fancies under the name of new lights 3. I confesse persons having such grace in them as shall be confirmed to the end as keeps them waiting for the coming of Christ as are the comfortable seals of a faithfull Ministry are not outward Professours only but are reall Saints and Elect and thence I conclude it cannot be understood universally of all and every one of the Visible Church of Corinth Will he say that all and every one were reall Saints Elect to be confirmed unto the end and so eternally saved if he say yes in Pauls judgement so far as he could judge upon evidences of true grace I say 1. That is an addition to the Text Paul saith simply he shall confirm you unto the end c. not so far as I can judge he shall confirm you Yea 2. It enervats the comfort held forth by the Apostle to them he speaks to for it imports no more upon the mater but this possibly ye may be confirmed to the end and so when all is done ye may be possibly not confirmed to the end mans judgement can go no further and is contrary to the strain of all the Orthodox writing against the Remonstraints in the Article of perseverance who understand the place of Saints and the Lords effectuall gracious preserving them in veritate rei and so make use of the place and presse it against the Remonstrants But let Mr. Lockier rid himself here if he will have Paul to speak thus of all and every one of the Visible Church of Corinth either he must conceive it spoken only with relation to the state of that Church as its first up-setting or also in relation to what it was at the present time of the Writing of this Epistle The former cannot be said because it s most evident all along that Passage Chap. 1. he is speaking of it as still at the time of his writing standing in that condition he expresseth in his words albeit some of the Verbs be used in the preterit perfect tense no man can deny this who hath any judgement If he say the latter the very Epistle it self will confute it wherein to wit so grosse wickednesses and impieties are discovered to have been amongst them and laid to their charge schismes contentious suits of Law fornications communion and fellowship at Idolatrous Tables drunkennesse at the Sacrament of the Lords Supper deniall of the Resurrection Will any man say that the Apostle knowing such things to be amongst them speaks of all and every one of them as reall inward Saints as far as men can judge section 5 For the
Church of the Galatians is cited Gal. 4. 9. chap. 6. 1. the latter whereof is so impertinent to the purpose that I wonder how it came in his minde to alledge it The point to be proven is that the Church of the Galat. was constitute of persons all truely godly so far as men could judge The Apostles meaning in this place is this much if any amongst you through infirmity or ignorance be surprized and fall into a fault such among you as are spirituall i. e. more advanced and confirmed in knowledge and piety and more experimentally skilled in Christianity being conscious of your own lyablenesse to temptations apply your selves to recover and restore such an one with meeknesse and gentlenesse what is this to that conclusion If Mr. Lockier had assayed to make up a Syllogisme upon it for inferring that conclusion he would I no wayes doubt have perceived the impertinency of his alledging it Neither yet doth the former prove the point for let that knowing of God and their being known of God be understood of reality of saving grace Yet the speech is but indefinite after ye have known God or rather are known of God And every body knows what an indefinite speech can bear in materiâ contingente section 6 For the Church of Ephesus is cited Eph. 1. 1. 13. and Acts 20. 28. 32. For the first citation I mean what is said in the Epistle we need say no more then what is said upon the Romanes and Corinthians The places are all alike and the same answer serveth all Only I will say I am astonished that any man should think or say that these high Heavenly blessings priviledges and graces spoken of by the Apostle to the Ephesians as blessed with spirituall blessings in Heavenly places chosen before the foundation of the World predestinat to the adoption of Children to the praise of the Glory of His Grace accepted in the Beloved having Redemption through His Blood the forgivenesse of sins obtained the inheritance sealed with the Spirit of promise quickned with Christ raised up together with him to sit in heavenly places c. are all by the Apostle spoken of and attributed to all and every one in the visible societie of the Church of Ephesus so far as he could judge wherein he himself clearly intimats there were some and he speaks according to his own knowledge that were given to teach other Doctrine giving heed to fables 1 Tim. 1. 3 4. some that had swerved aside to vain jangling desiring to be Teachers of the Law c. v. 6 7. that teached otherwise not consenting to wholesome words proud knowing nothing doting about Questions and Strifes of words c. 6. 3 4. some addicted to the love of Money and Covetousnesse v. 9 10. striving about words to no profite but to the subverting of the hearers vessels to dishonour as vessels to honour Reprobates and Cast-awayes as well as Elect the foundation of the Lord having the seal of Gods Eternal Predestination Fore-knowledge set upon them 2 Tim. 2. 19. 20. those that oppose themselves and were to be brought with meeknesse unto Repentance and recovered out of the snare of Satan who had them captive at his will v. 25 26. such as had a forme of Godlinesse but denyed the Power thereof Misleaders and Mislead cap. 3. 6. 7. compare with v. 5. who will dare to say that the Apostle writing to a Church and giving them all these high stiles and commendations mentioned before did intend them to all and every one severally and distributively in that Church Neither will it avail to say that this Church might been so constitute at first as that all the Members might been such as these stiles might been given to them as far as men could judge though afterward many of them degenerated and discovered themselves Unlesse Mr. Lockier make it good that such was the state of that Church in all the Members of it at the time of the writing of this Epistle to the Ephesians he alleadgeth what is said in it to no effect for his purpose But it is certain that the first Epistle to Timothie was written long before it this being written long ere he came to Rome as Interpreters agree and that being written from Rome and that as most think in the time of his second imprisonment there and so it seemeth but a little before the second to Timothie which was the last of all section 7 For the other citation Acts 20. 28 32. 1. The latter vers 32. any man who sees any thing may see it clearly impertinent to the purpose in hand 2. To the other feed the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood We Answ That by the Church bought with the blood of Iesus Christ true God is not meant the Visible Church as such as if the meaning of the words were bought with the blood of Christ in the judgement of charitie or so far as men can judge which is a meer addition to the Text but the Invisible Church of the Elect really redeemed So do all Orthodox Divines writing against Remonstrants on the Article of Redemption expound it of the Church of the Elect only and presse it as an Argument against the Remonstrants Universall Redemption and Remonstrants upon the contrare would have it meant of the whole Visible Church Mr. Lockier hath given no proof that it is spoken of the Visible Church as such but thought it enough to point us to the place and to suppose it be as he would have it But because Reverend M. Hooker in his Survey par 1. c. 3. pag. 39 40. asserteth the same interpretation of the place with Mr. Lockier against my Reverend Collegue Mr. Rutherfurd and assayes to give some reason for it albeit I doubt not ere long the Church shall have a sufficient answer from Mr. Rutherfurd himself to that and other things in the Survey Yet I must crave humble leave of him to say somewhat to Mr. Hooker in this particular seeing it cometh so far in my way and otherwise Mr. Lockier and his followers might haply say I had purposely shun'd it section 8 The Church here sayeth he whether Congregationall or Presbyteriall must needs be visible Ans That is not the question nor the thing he should have proven for we shall confesse the Church here spoken of and as spoken of in the context must be visible but he should have said and proven the Church here spoken of and said to be bought with the blood of Christ must be the Church Visible and as such considered according to its visible state and consequently that the attribute of the enunciation is enunciat of all and every one in that state see we then if the argument he formeth maketh out this That over whom Elders and Officers are set to attend to feed by Doctrine and Discipline this must needs be a visible Church for unlesse they did see them and know them how could they execute censure
these thine elect and therefore I cannot tell how to feed them It is not necessary or a Pastour to feed the Elect that he know distinctly who are the singular persons by the head but for feeding by publick Doctrine it is sufficient that he know them confusedly that they are there in the Congregation and if he have any grounds of a positive judgement concerning particular persons that indeed gives him further advantage to apply himself to those in a more particularly applicatory way If indeed it were the Ministers work to feed efficaciter to give the increase as the Apostle expresseth the actuall efficaciousnesse or efficiency of grace and they were required to feed the elect that way I confesse if the Lord did not distinctly point out the particular persons to them then they might make such a reply Lord I cannot search into thy secrets to perceive who are these c. but the efficiency of grace is in Gods own hand alone and the Minister has upon him but an externall morall suasive administration which he is to dispense for the good of the elect but he needeth not for that know them distinctly it is enough he knowes they are there where he dispenseth them and let God discern and waile them out from the rest 3. It is a groundlesse supposition and contrary to the truth that in the current and common sense of Scripture that redeemed being spoken of spirituall redemption from sin and eternall wrath as for the name sanctified it is not in this text and therefore is impertinently brought in here is taken for redeemed visibly though not really I doubt he can bring many passages of Scripture wherein it can with any appearance be so exponed yea visibly redeemed is an expression in my judgement strange to Scripture Let this suffice us in answer to Mr. Hooker in this particular We doubt not but Mr. Rutherfurd will have more full and acurate considerations on it section 10 I shall adde a word or two for proofe that by the Church redeemed by the blood of Christ cannot be understood all and every one of the Visible Church but only the Elect desiring Mr. Lockier to take the same to his consideration if the Church which Ephes 5. 25 26 27. Christ is said to have loved and given himself for that he might sanctifie and cleanse it be not the Visible Church as such and so all members of the Visible Church then neither is it so to be taken here the consequence and connexion of this proposition is necessary and clear because the attribute enunciate of it in both places is all one upon the matter for what else is it that Christ loved the Church and gave himself for it that c. but that he redeemed it by his own blood But that Eph. 5. by the Church is meant only the elect i. e. the Invisible Church is the constant Doctrine of all Orthodox Divines in their disputes against the Remonstrants universall Redemption for the Redemption of the elect only and likewise of all Orthodox Divines writing against Papists on the Question concerning the members of the true Invisible Church the Mysticall body of Christ and also upon the Question of the Visibility of the Church I instance but a testimonie of one viz. Learned Whittaker de Eccles q. 1. c. 9. tert arg where you shall find him not only affirm but solidely prove this we say reasoning thus from the place Christ is not the Head * This is to be understood of such headship as has allusion to the head of the naturall body which hath a reall influence into the body so no doubt Christ is an head in a politicall sort to the Visible Church having a morall influence by command c. but of that Church which he shall save which he shall present to himself on the day of Judgement glorious not having spot or wrinkle But only the predestinate shall be saved Ergo. only the Elect belong to the Church of Christ i. e. the Church mentioned there and to Bellarmin's answer that Christ is Head to that Church which he shall not save he saith falsissimum esse Read that whole paragraph and you shall find sundry other solide Arguments brought by him from that context to prove that only the elect are that Church spoken of there 2. Again I desire him to look forward from v. 28. to ver 30. of this very 20. chap. of the Acts and see what the Apostle saith also of your own selves shall men arise speaking perverse things to draw away Disciples after them Whether we expone of your own selves of the whole body of the Church of Ephesus or particularly of the Elders and Officers thereof is all one to our purpose It will not be denied that the Officers were members of the Church of Ephesus and as Christians were partakers of the common Priviledges and Titles competent to the Visible Church now if Paul shall be conceived to speak that redeemed by the blood of Christ let it be out of the positive judgement of charity and so far as he could judge universally of all the Visible Church of Ephesus how could this consist with what he saith v. 30. * Surgendi verbo quo utitur significat iam lupos illos fovere clandestinam perniciem donec occasione sibi datâ erumpant Calv. in loc that he knew there was some amongst them presently fostering secret and clandestine wickednesse who would afterward openly kyth apostatize from the truth and become seducers of others Could the Apostle have a judgement such as is mentioned of such that they were Redeemed by c. Sure understand the Word v. 20. as Mr. Lockier would and we shall have clearly contradictory judgements of Paul at once I judge the Church of Ephesus Universally all and every one of you Redeemed and yet I know some among you are lurking traitours who will kyth afterward he sayeth not may be some of you will but positively some of you will section 11 For the Church of the Philippians is cited chap. 1. v. 6. and chap. 4. v. 15 16. For the latter I see nothing in it that hath any colour of a ground for his point nor yet doth the former hold forth a proof of it The Apostle writeth to all the Saints at Philippi and v. 6. declares the confidence that he had that God who had begun the work in them would perfite it to the coming of the Lord Jesus Will it follow hence that all and every one of the Visible Church of Philippi were reall Saints so far as man could judge * The 6. vers by the Orthodox writing-against the Remonstrants upon the head of perseverance is applyed only to the Elect and true Believers in the judgement of verity or truth of the thing it self See Ames Coron art 5. arg 2. proving this by solide reasons no Logick will evince this from these words cited If he had taken in the 7. vers he might had a
truly whether their froward spirit did not principally raise these storms I leave themselves to judge They converted so many Malignants into Presbyterians e contra that if God had not been more gracious then they ingenuous they had undone themselves and others too Answ To this impertinent discourse in the generall if I shall say that it is nothing else but an issue of carnall bitternesse I think no ingenuous indifferent man will blame me or think I say too much For 1. True suppose Presbyterians began first to draw the sword which is false they were forced to it by others drawing it but was it not for their just defence in vindication and maintainance of the Truth of Jesus Christ and of their just liberty against oppression Prelaticall violence and arbitrary Government And must this be charged upon them as Mr. Lockier doth here as a crime Tell me Mr. Lockier what condition were you in and would been in to this day in all humane appearance had not Presbyterians begun to draw the sword in that quarrell Tell me what was the means under God that procured liberty for the sitting down of a free Parliament in England 1640 Belike you think it was a crime that you got not leave to crouch under the burden and Religion and Liberties were not suffered for Presbyterians to ly still under oppression and usurpation I believe the wisest and most ingenuous and those that are most eminent amongst them that now are in power amongst you and in these Lands will not approve you in their judgement for this challenge against us And unlesse I be misinformed when they were come to this hight of prevalency they are now in and we brought to this low condition we are now continuing in looking back gave testimony of their acknowledgement that our beginning to draw the sword did put the sword in their hand tho it was never our purpose to put it in their hand for the effect for which at last they have made use of it 2. Your attributing the hightning of the sword to that to which in likelyhood it would not have come to the bitternesse and basenesse of Presbyterians seeing ye give no proof nor the least evidence of it and indeed ye could not we must crave leave to say it is an injury Tell me Sir was it bitternesse of spirit or did it tend to the hightning of the sword that the Presbyterians in Scotland having but girded their sword to them Anno 1639. upon promises of tollerable satisfaction laid it aside again presently ere ever they drew it and having again in the Year 40. being forced to it by deadly preparations drawn it with advantage which they might have prosecuted yet as soon as they were secured by the treaty at â—ippon put it up into its sheath and retired again * Remember Mr. Lockier and read that speech of one of your own Jeremie Burroughs to the coÌ„mon Counsel of London in Guild Hall Anno 1642. and blush I shal here insert but a few of his words for the Readers sake who may be heâ— not at hand a Cople of that speech Was their ever such an example seen since the world began of a people coming out of a poor country into a fat and rich country and having these opportunities to enrich themselves to go away so as they did Their greatest enemies they now admire at them A people that began to rise for their Liberties when the generality of this people here was ready c. I shall transcribe no more let Mr. Lockier read what followeth and what goeth before these words into their own land without any further molestation and having again drawn the sword for your assistance in great straits and upon your earnest suit Anno 1643. And having kept it in their hand for sundry years untill all enemies were husht and gone as soon as they were desired to return home did it in a peaceable way I pray you Sir tell me who were the men that kept up the sword then Whether Presbyterians or some others 3. Indeed these two latter Summer-wars have been the sharpest and we cannot but say that we have felt And it becometh us well to justifie the Lord our God in all that he hath brought upon us and to bear his indignation because we have sinned against him we and our Kings and our Princes and Rulers and the whole People of the Land But if as to the quarrell be-between us and man frowardnesse of spirit in us raised these storms tho we can justifie our selves before the world Yet we shall not take upon our selves to be judges of it But shall refer it to the Judgement of him who is the Judge of the World and though it should be his blessed good pleasure never to plead our cause by a sensible dispensation of providence in this world yet we will acquiesce in the approbation of his revealed will without quiting of our innocency be content to ly down in the grave and wait for his sentence in the mater when he shall come to Judge the quick and the dead And as for you Mr. Lockier I verily think he shall never let you go off this world without a challenge from himself for such unchristian uncharitable insulting over them whom the Lord hath smitten and talking to the grief of these whom he hath wounded 4. As to that which followeth they converted so many Malignants into Presbyterians e contra c. 1. 'T is upon the mater but an injurious scoffe smelling rank of a mind not purposed to reason but to reproach a thing unbeseeming a Minister of the Gospel especially in a Pulpit I will not pay you home in your coyne Mr. Lockier but I may say Quamvis dignus ego essem hac comtumeliâ indigâ—…is tu qui faceres tamen 2. T is utterly impertinent to the preceeding purpose he was upon Was this the quarrell that did principally raise these storms Where is ingenuity I beleeve we might had liberty to turn Malignants enough unto Presbyterians or any other thing we pleased without any quarrell had we been content but to have done some one thing which we durst not do because of the Oath of God And now I obtâ—st you Mr. Lockier say candidly if either then when these storms were raised or now since we felt the dint of them converting Malignants to be what they would for your designe be made bones of among you I 'le insist no more upon this invective but leave it spread before the Lord that he may in his time plead with the Authors heart for the unjustice and uncharitablenesse of it Come we now to the next Objection he meeteth with section 9 4. Object Simon Magus was a man in the gall of bitternesse and in the bonde of iniquity yet upon his profession of faith in Christ he was received into Church-fellowship Therefore meer profession is sufficient to this state and no more to be looked after de jure nisi
appears to be some grounds in the Text to think the contrary viz. these 1. That Peter with his severe objurgation and denunciation joynes a serious exhortation to Repentance and Prayer with an insinuation of some hope of mercie v. 2â— 2. That the Historian has registrate that Simon did not shew himself obstinate but accepting of the words of Peter and touched with the terrour of the threatned Judgement sought the help of the Apostles Prayers to escape it 3. But supposing that Peter did at this time Excommunicate him yet that it was done upon this account simply that he was not in Christ that he had no share in reall grace has no footing in the Text we will find a further mater â—…d to his charge an atrocious crime of seeking to buy the gift of the Holy Ghost with money Nay that for non regeneration simply a man should be Excommunicat is a wild assertion unheard of in the Word of God which enjoyneth this censure only in the case of obstinacy and contumacious contempt of the Discipline of the Church or at farthest in case of an atrocious scandall which case yet is doubtfull as may appear in the debates of Learned Men about the Excommunication of the incestuous Corinthian 4. The place 2 Tim. 3. 5. is most contrary to the scope and purpose of the context alledged as a rule holding forth that all professours not having true grace of Regeneration or not giving evidences thereof so far as men can discern and judge are for that to be casten out of the communion of the Visible Church It is clear as nooâ—-day that the Apostle by the men of whom he saith they have a form of godlinesse means not every professour unregenerate or not giving evidences convincing so far as men can judge of Regeneration but persons openly and grossely in their conversation scandalous flagitious blasphemous c. As is evident both by the words going before and following section 14 Thâ—â—ast Object he laboureth to answer the Apostle 2 Tim. 2. 20. But in a great house there are not only vessels of Gold and of Silver but also of Wood and of Earth and some to honour and some to dishonour by house he meaneth Visible Church therefore the Visible Church may consist of good â—…d bad Mr. Lockier propounds Arguments against his Tenent as himself pleaseth in the most â—oft way for his own advantage We hope in the next Section to give an Argumeâ—… from this and other like descriptions of the Visible Church formed somewhat more pungent now we shall only consider what he answâ—…eth unto it as laid down by himself His Answers are two section 15 First That there may be bad men in a Church hath not been denyed because Hypocrites may delude the judgement of the best men but he the Apostle saith not that these vessels of earth are there allowedly but they are there to dishonour That is being creept in where they should not be they are to be cast out of the Church as dishonourable as indeed was Hymeneus and Philetus of whom and of one Alexander see what the Apostle sayeth 1 Tim. 1. 20. which shews that when men put away that which they seem to have faith coupled with a good conscience they are to be put away to their master as vessels of dishonour appointed for wrath Answ 1. Passing now that expression that bad men are not in the Church allowedlie having pondered before in what sense it may be granted and in what not passing this what a wilde and forced Interpretation is that vessels to dishonour i. e. that are to be cast out of the Church by Ecclesiastick censure Excommunication Who ever dreamed of the like before Clear it is that the Apostle in the back or outside of the comparison by being to honour means appointed and imployed to more honest and honourable uses in an house And by to dishonour meaneth not casting out of the house to Interprete him so were ridiculous but to be appointed and imployed to more base and fordid uses And in the kirnell or application of the similiâ—ude under the name of vessels to honour is meaned the elect of God sanctified and prepared to every good work and ordained â—o glory as is clear by the verse going before and the verse following And so by vessels to dishonour are meant cast-awayes whom being in the Visible Church God makes use of for such ends as he pleaseth and in end will separate them to that wrath and confusion they are fitted for whether ever here-away they break out into such scandals as shall make them to be casten out of the Visible Church or they continue in the heap or in the house to their ending day That this is the genuine meaning of the words I think no intelligent man will deny 2. It is a false supposition which Mr. Lockier insinuateth that bad men in the Church i. e. men void of true grace and unregenerat as and becausâ— such are to be cast out of the commuâ—…on of the Visible Church the Scripture allowâ—…h no casting out of men but because they are scâ—…dalous and contumâ—…ous or at least atrociously scandalous which latter yet as we said before is questionable and it alloweth men that are such to be casten out though they be haply in state truely regenerat and justified And therefore 3. It is a most inconsiderat word of the Authors where expressing the nature of Excommunication he â—ayeth they are to be put away to their master as vessels of dishonour and appointed unto wrath i. e. in plain words as reprobates ordained to eternall damnation This is very different from Pauls theologie 1 Cor. 5. 5. to deliver unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus Far be it from me and from the Churches of Christ to use Excommunication upon such a consideration of a person and for such an end as Mr. Lockier determines here which in effect makes the Church in the sentence of Excommunication to determine concerning mens reprobation a secret which God hath keped up to himself and is altogether hid unto and undiscernable by men except in the case of sinning against the Holy Ghost which yet is hard for any to determine upon 4. The Excommunication and casting out of Hymeneus Philetus and Alexander is impertinently alledged to the purpose viz. that all men that are not true Saints or have not true grace so must Mr. Lockier's bad men be understood are upon this account to be cast out of the Church these were not such men simply but taught abominable heresies denyall of the Resurrection perverse seducers of people from the faith blasphemers and for these they were cast out 2 Tim. 2. 18 2 Tim. 1. ult section 16 His next Answer is this Moreover by this great house he Paul First means the Church of the Ephesians for whose sake Paul wrot to Timothy and what they were according to the judgement of
by reason 〈◊〉 their gift of discerning perceiving in the persons true inward saving grace section 5 But to this supposing that which we shall make good in the proofe of the assumption they did admit them upon their first making professâ—… without delay or further enquirie I rejoyn thus If the Apostle â—…d admit them 〈◊〉 discerning and judging positively reall grace in them then that discerning and judging of theirs eithe◠〈◊〉 proceed from and was the act of an 〈◊〉 ordinary gift of an 〈◊〉 and Propheticall Spirit or from 〈◊〉 ordinary gift of dâ—…cretion common to beleevers 1. It cannot bâ— said that it was from the former For 1. I require a proof thereof from the History of Scripture because this Question beiâ—… about 〈…〉 of fact the probation is incumbent to my adverâ—… 〈◊〉 the affirming party But he shall 〈◊〉 be able to 〈…〉 of this from the History of 〈…〉 such 〈…〉 â—…dinary Propheticall gift of discerâ—… 〈…〉 of that 〈◊〉 E. G the gift of Diting and 〈…〉 â—…nicall Scripture was not inherent in the mind of the 〈…〉 way of 〈◊〉 permanent â—abite whereof they might make◠〈◊〉 â—…eir own will in ordinary But was present to them by 〈◊〉 â—…ansient motion or â—…scation of 〈◊〉 Spirit Now albeit it be true that the Apostles â—…meâ—mes de fâ—cto had such an extraordinary and Propheticall inspiration whereby they discovered secrets of mens spirits as 〈◊〉 had in the mater of Ananias and Saphira Acts Yet what warrand have wâ— to beleeve that they were to 〈…〉 an extraordinary gift of discerning the spirituall estaâ—… 〈…〉 â—…narily and when they were to go about the receâ—… 〈…〉 into the fellowship of the â—…ble Church We know 〈…〉 had a promise of infallible illumination and inspiration of the Spirit foâ— leading them into all truth â—n delivering unto the â—…urch the maters of faith and juris divinâ— by word or writâ— But that they had a promise of such extraordinary illuminatâ—… 〈…〉 â—…tation of the Spirit for discerning such maters of fact 〈…〉 conversion and â—aith of 〈◊〉 to be assâ—ent to them in passing judgement when they 〈◊〉 have occasion we no where 〈◊〉 in the Word of God 3. 〈◊〉 that discerning and judgemâ—… 〈◊〉 by suâ—…â—n extraordinary gift as this it had been certaâ—… 〈◊〉 â—…fallibleâ— But we finde many to have been admitted by the Apostles who â—…ward positively discovered themselves to be but gracelesse mâ—… section 6 2. But if it shall be said that their â—…dgement in this matâ—… 〈◊〉 the act of the ordinâ—… gift of discerning 〈…〉 â—s this proceedeth discursively 〈◊〉 the outward 〈…〉 to conclude of the inward state and conâ—…ution of 〈…〉 â—…ose and fountain then I say the â—…wâ—rd 〈…〉 they proceeded as the medinâ—… or Arguâ—… to câ—nclude the persons whom they admitted to be truely converted and as Mr. Lockier hath it such as God the searcher of hearts did 〈…〉 sealed by the Spirit for his so far as men truely converted and very spirituall can discern Was either their present profession of the faith and subjectioÌ„ to Ordinances simply considered by it self as such or that profession takeâ—â—…ther with some other outward eminent effect accompanying or as connotating some circumstance of profession in that 〈◊〉 rendering it signifâ—… of more as to true inward grace in the heart then 〈…〉 materially is ordinarily and in other times This enuâ—…â—nceive is sufficiently full supposing 〈◊〉 now wâ—… that â—…ted them upon their first professing without delay of time 〈◊〉 â—…her tryall and discoveries section 7 Now to resume these if the 〈…〉 said we might be soon at a point and agreement upon the mater in this Question toâ—…hing the qualification of Church-members necessary in foro Ecclesiastico For this is the very thing upon the mater that we assert and stand for viz. that serious profession of faith and subjection to the Ordinances of God is sufficient And that having this further tryall and 〈…〉 of the soundnesse of the work in the heart is not 〈…〉 foro Ecclesiastico for the â—…mission of persons into the â—…ship of the Visible Church If it shall be said that it was not that profession alone by it self but together with some other outward â—…ble effect accompanying it such as was that mournfull humâ—… expression of these Acts 2. 3. 7. Men and Brethren what 〈…〉 which was sufficient to supply the place of a continued 〈…〉 of their conversation for 〈◊〉 and â—…ing into their experimentall work 〈◊〉 their heart 'T is true that in some at their 〈◊〉 imbracing the Christian faith and Religion we finde some 〈…〉 of that kind accompanying it reported in the â—…ory But 〈◊〉 will say that it was so with all and every one of the many thousands whom the Apostles received and baptized when as the sacred Story in speaking of these who imbraced the Christian Faith and were baptized seldome mentioâ—… or insinuateth any such thing If the 3. be said that it was thâ—â—…fession considered not 〈…〉 such but as connotating soâ—… 〈…〉 of the 〈◊〉 viz. the dangâ—… of persecution that profeâ—… 〈◊〉 Christian 〈◊〉 brought men under then which is the thing Mr. Lockier layeth the great weight on as we did see before pag. 24 25. and that Profession of Christian Religion so cirâ—…stantiate was more pregnant to signifie a great deal more touching inward grace then the same profession for mater doth now or ordinarily out of that case I repone 't is true perseverance and constant holding out in the profession of Religion under the crosse and actuall pressure of persâ—…tion is a good evidence to ground a positive charitable judgement of an honest heart and principle of grace within 〈◊〉 and undertaking the profession when it may probably 〈…〉 is noâ— nothing to this purpose But I desire it ma◠〈◊〉 â—…mbred â—ere that aâ— the Christian Profession then was 〈…〉 dangâ—… of persecution thâ— it was not alwayes actually â—…cuted Some time the Church had rest round about so 〈◊〉 Gospel then was accompanied with greaâ—â—nd many wonders and miracles which are mightily operative upon the minds of men to draw them to the following a Doctrine or way of Religion even without any spirituall heart-change And therefore I think that no man can in reason say that Profession of the Gospel lyable unto danger of persecution yet together accompanied with so great miracles and 〈◊〉 in as to â—ignifying and discovery of inward grace so 〈◊〉 profession the same upon the mater when there is not 〈◊〉 danger and withall neither are there such wonders and miracles accompanying it Further let it be considered that besides that the â—acred historiographer more frequently mentioneth the circumstance of miracles and wonders then that of the danâ—… of persecution in reporting mens bringing to the profeâ—… of â—…ristian faith besides this I say we never read marked in the story that that circumstance of the danger of persecution was taken into account by the Apostles for passing judgement upon the inâ—…â—…cerity of Conversion when they admitted to
and making conscience to try and search his heart and wayes and to compare the same with the rule may passe a positive yea a certain and infallible sentence and jugement upon himself whether he be Regenerate and in the state of Grace or not This we assert against Papists maintaining that Believers nor have nor by ordinary means can have assurance of their being in the state of grace and against the wilde Antinomians of this time maintaining that this cannot be had by inherent works and signes of Grace 2. We deny not but there are some more eminent outward works and actings of Religion and Piety upon which men in whom they are seen may be warrantably by others so far as is competent to men positively judged truely gracious and that there are some outward works and actings of the flesh designed by the Word of God so grosse and corrupt such as are constant known neglect of the Worship of God open contempt of Divine Ordinances customarie mocking of Piety and Religion and such others see 2 Tim. 3. 2 3 4. which appearing in men others may esteem them void of Grace carnall without the Spirit and fear of God These things then being put out of controversie this is the thing we cannot see in the Word of God a generall and universall rule for trying and giving judgement upon all and every Professour in point of Regeneration and non-Regeneration by others then themselves and holding forth such definite limited and bounded Characters of Regeneration whereupon others may passe a positive sentence or judgement viz. this man is to be held truely Regenerate because he hath so much or so much Profession and practise and this man is to be held not Regenerate at least not to be held Regenerate because he hath not so much I say we cannot see any rule of this kind held forth in the Word of God let Mr. Lockier if he hath seen it point us at it Verily if he had had a mind to satisfie his readers and hearers or done that which was requisite to have been done by him in reason to satisfie and convince them of the doctrine he delivered touching the mater or Members of the Visible Church viz. that all and every one of them must be truely converted and sealed of God for his so far as men very spirituall can judge he should have told them and that from the Word of God the particular definite bounded Characters whereby all and every Professour may and are to be by others then themselves discerned and judged to be such or otherwise but having never so much as once in his lecture assayed to determine this we must crave leave to say he has left them his Doctrine both in the mist However let him do it yet and we shall passe that escape Others of his way or towards it have assayed it but when that which they have said to this purpose is duly examined and pondered I believe it shall be found by judicious and impartiall men much unsatisfactory and still leaving the mater in the dark let 's take into consideration what some of the more judicious of them have determined in this mater section 17 Mr. Hooker Surv. p. 1. c. 2. pag. 24. layeth down the rule or ground in these words he that professing the faith lives not in the neglect of any known duty nor in the commission of any known evill and hath such a measure of knowledge as may in reason let in Christ into the soul and carry the soul to him These be grounds by which charity passed according to rule may and ought to conceive There be some beginnings of spirituall good Here are two things laid down to make up the ground to proceed upon 1. Living without omission of any known duety or in commission of any known evill 2. So much knowledge as may let in Christ to the soul and lead the soul to him But commonly amongst them there is yet a further thing required to ground this judgement viz. a declaration of the experimentall work of faith and Conversion in the heart Mr. Norton pag. 13. and Mr. Hooker himself p. 3. c. 1. pag. 4. he the person to be admitted must be tryed not only what his knowledge but what his acquaintance is with the things of Christ and his Kingdome Experience and acquaintance with Christ importeth more then knowledge that may let Christ into the soul and carry the soul to Christ Even knowledge that he is in de facto Now let us examine these things so far as concerneth our present purpose section 18 Remember then what we are upon whither the Lord in his Word has set down a generall and universall rule for judiciall tryall of professours upon the point of their regeneration or non-regeneration holding forth such determinat grounds as the Church must take cognition of and upon the having thereof and no lesse positively judge persons to be truely regenerat and converted ones this premised 1. 'T is to be observed that as to that part of the ground knowledge Mr. Hooker gives us nothing but an indefinit generall so much knowledge as may let in Christ into the soul But tells not defines not the bounds of knowledge that wee might know how much knowledge will serve for that purpose and lesse then which will not do it So the rule as to this part set down by Mr. Hooker is but a blind And verily I think it shal be hard for any man to define particularly how much knowledge is requisite to let in Christ and lesse then which will not do it Mr. Norton speaking of this part of the 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 upon which the judgement of the Church must proceed pag. 12. in sin and 13. princip he defines the knowledge required to be the fundamentalls and other heads of Religion the knowledge whereof is necessary for leading a life without scandall But beside that it hath never been clearly yet shown by any what are the precise fundamentals of Religion and I suppose hardly can be it were a hard assertion to affirm that the knowledge of all these heads of Religion that are necessary to lead a life without scandall is necessary to a mans Regeneration and so the declaration thereof necessary to ground the Churches judging of him to be such for admitting him to Church fellowship I think a man may be ignorant all the dayes of his life of the strict morality of the Lords day the knowledge whereof yet it being supposed to be of divine institution as it is is necessary to lead a life without scandall and yet be truely regenerat and such as the Church may judge in charity truly gracious section 19 2. When it is said they must be such as lives not which he expresseth to be not having sin but to tread in it in the neglect of any duty or in the commission of any known evill 1. The Church hereby is put upon a ground of proceeding and judging which is meerly
Anabaptists whose Doctrine concerning the mater of a Church is the very same with his section 36 Having added some reasons from Scripture to these which Mr. Lockier was pleased to take into consideration besides which he may find sundry others in other Divines who have Written on this Subject as namely Reverend Mâ— Rutherfurd Apollonius his consideration of sundry Controversies c. and Spanhemius his Epistle to David Buchanan I might adde a large enough Catalogue of Testimonies from Orthodox Divines both ancient especially in their Writings against Novatians and Donatists and Moderne since Reformation of Religion from Poperie But being of the mind of that Reverend and Learned man who said he esteemed more of one Testimony of Scripture then of ten reasons and of one solid reason more then of ten humane testimonies I will spare to fill up Paper this way only this I may say that our opposites have the whole stream of Orthodox and Reformed Divines against them Let the Learned Ames a man in some other points too much inclining to the Independent Tenents speak for this Bellar. Enervat Tom. 2. lib. 2. c. 1. 11. 5. falsum est sayeth he internas virtutes equiri à nobis ut aliquis sit in Ecclesiâ quoad Visibilem ejus statum i. e. it s false that inward vertues or graces are required by us that one may be in the Church as to its visible state And he had good reason to say so for we shall find all Orthodox Reformed Divines alwise defining the Visible Church by outward Profession of the true Christian faith or Religion and externall communion in the Worship and Ordinances of God But never by inward holinesse and heart-conversion Thus I have done with Mr. Lockiers Lecture APPENDIX Wherein is Examined so much of that Letter Written by these of ABERDENE who lately have separated from this Church upon the INDEPENDENT grounds as relateth to the present Question touching the necessary qualification of Visible Church-members section 1 LAst Summer some persons Ministers and others in Aberdene did Write a Letter of the date 24. of May to some Godly men in the South declaring their separation from the communion of the Church of Scotland upon two points of Controversie between us and these of the Independent way viz. the constitution of the Visible Church and the Government thereof contrary to their solemn Vowes made to Almighty God in two Covenants the Nationall Covenant of this Kirk and the Solemn League and Covenant of the three Kingdomes and undertaken with so lemn declaration of their conviction in Conscience of the truth of Religion professed in this Church and under the pains of Gods everlasting wrath and of infamie and of losse of all honour and respect in this world if they should ever make defection from the same which curse I pray the God of all grace avert from them granting unto them Repentance and forgivenesse of their great sin through Jesus Christ section 2 It is not my purpose here to write an Examination of that whole Letter knowing some Godly and able men have done that sufficiently already to themselves whose pains I heartily wish the Lord may be pleased by his blessing yet to make effectuall upon the hearts of these men to reduce them from their errour into unity with this Church in his Truth from which they have departed I mind only to consider what new appearance of reason they bring touching these two points the qualification of Church-members and form of Government and shall speak to the former in this Appendix to the latter in another after our second Part of Mr. Lockiers Examination The cause why I do this thus apart in Appendices is partly because I was loath to interrupt so much the threed of Mr. Lockiers Examination Partly because it was long time and I had gone on a great way in that Examination ere a Copy of this Letter came to my hands Come we then to consider here what they say upon the first point section 3 Their Thesis is this To us it seemeth for ought we can search in the Word that none should be admitted constitute members of a Visible Church But such as with a profession of the truth joyn such blamelesse and Gospel-like behaviour as they may be esteemed in a rationall judgement of charity beleevers and their children On which I would represent these animadversions 1. A little before they expresse a restriction of this to Gospel Churches 1. As I conceive Churches of the New Testament for ought we understand say they the reall constitution of Gospel Churches c. Now as to this we desire these things propounded upon the same restriction made by Mr. Lockier before Sect. 2. may be considered 2. When as they speak of the members of a Church and not of the Church I would know whether they do acknowledge the being and unity of an Universall Visible Church or not If they acknowledge the being and essence thereof then why do they not define the qualification of members in relation to it but in relation to a Church i. e. a particular Congregation Is the necessary qualification of a member of the Visible Church Universall one thing and the necessary qualification of a member of this or that particular Congregation another and may one be fit to be a member of the Universall Visible Church and yet not qualified to be a member of a particular Congregation If they deny the being and unity of the Universall Visible Church which may be pâ—obably they do then I desire them in the fear of God to consider and if they can give us satisfactory answers to the weighty reasons from the Word of God brought by sundry late Divines particularly these of the Judicious and Learned Mr. Hudson in his late Treatises on that purpose to prove the being and unity thereof Which I am perswaded nor they nor any living man shall ever be able to do 3. When as they speak not simply of members but distinctly of constitute members none say they are to be admitted as constitute members of a Visible Church I would aske them what is the other part of the distinction What other members are there of the Visible Church unto which these constitute members are contradistinguished How are they called in their specification And what is their necessary qualification 4. When as they say that none are to be admitted constitute members but such as with a profession of the truth joyn such blamelesse and Gospel-like behaviour as they may be esteemed in a rationall charity beleevers i. e. true gracious beleevers with a saving faith 1. I would ask here why do they omit that part of the qualification required and made a part of the ground of esteeming persons beleevers by others of that way they have taken themselves to viz. a declaration of the experimentall work of effectuall vocation upon their heart and only mentioned the behaviour or conversation 2. Why have they not defined that blamelesse and
Gospel like behaviour which is requisite to be a ground of esteeming persons beleevers what at least is requisite and must concurre to make it up and lesse then which will not serve That so we might have the generall determinat rule whereby cognition is to be made and estimation to be passed upon all professours of the truth that they are beleevers or otherwayes For certainly while as they say but indefinitly such a blamelesse and Gospel behaviour and tells not what is requisite to make up such a behaviour they leave the mater in a mist of uncertainty and for ought we can see devolves the weight of that estimation upon mens apprehensions without a rule If they say they were writing an Epistle to friends and could not therein say all that is to be said in the mater I Answer that if they could have told it it might been said in short bounds and it was as necessary for clearing their mind to have been told as the Thesis they have set down it self But yet let them point us to such a rule in the Word if they know where it lyeth For my part I professe humbly I could never yet see in the Word of God an universall definite rule whereby judgement may and ought to be passed upon all and every professour of the truth by others that they are to be held for true beleevers or otherwise 5. When as in the designation of the persons that are fit to be admitted members of the Visible Church they with Parents joyn their children I do heartily acknowledge their Orthodoxy in this beyond others of that way who have omitted wholly that addition and wishes they may continue in that point of truth considering how easie it is as the Authors of that Epistle themselves may perceive by experience in others that went off with them first by that step they have gone on to slide into that other of excluding the Infants of beleevers from the Visible Church But now I would know whether they acknowledge such Infants members compleatly I mean in actu primo or not If they say the former they are at a disagreement with others of the Independent way If they say the latter then we must have another distinction of constitute members and so many sorts of members of the Visible Church and so also we must have many sorts of qualifications of members section 4 But now take the mater of the Thesis as it is that the necessary qualification to make one of years fit to be admitted a member of the Visible Church is together with profession of the truth such a conversation as may make a man to be esteemed i. e. positively judged a true beleever or Regenerat person I shall not here adde any new reasons to what I have brought before But shall come briefly to consider if these present Authors have brought any new strength of reason for that Tenet Only I would desire them in the fear and love of the truth to consider if they can find in the Word of God amongst all these many whose admission into the fellowship of the Visible Church of Christ is mentioned therein any instance of persons or one person who after their first professing Christian faith and Religion was what ever their behaviour and course had been before to that very time delayed of their admission to be Church-members untill they should be seen and found with that their profession to joyn such a blamelesse and Gospel-like behaviour as the Authors requires many of them no doubt untill that time had been of a very blameable and un Gospel behaviour and course of life And certain it is that to be seen joyning with profession of the truth an unblameable and Gospel-like behaviour requires some delay and length of time For my part I could never yet see any instance of this kind but on the contrary finds that persons as soon as they once embraced the profession of the Christian faith albeit to that very time their behaviour had been most blameable were forthwith baptized and so admitted members into the Christian Church Consider this I beseech you dear brethren if so ye will yet suffer your selves to be called and exhorted by me section 5 But now we come to the grâ—…nds of confirmation of their thesis Such say they were the Churches founded by the Apostles which ought to be paterns to us as appears by the title given to them Saints sanctified justified washed by the blood of Christ For Answer we refer to what we said before to that same inductive Argument in Mr. Lockier now in a word only to make this Argument good it must be alledged and made out not only that all and every one of the Churches founded by the Apostles at least such as are mentioned in Scripture were actually and defacto consisting of such members as were all and every one Saints justified c. in the positive judgement of charity But also were in their gathering constitute of all and every one formally considered and taken in under the notion of such upon tryall found and judged to be such But 1. 'T is not so much as alledged by the Authors that they were so gathered and constituted nor can these titles let them take them as they will import any thing of this 2. Nor suppose these titles should import that the Churchâ—… to which they are given were eventually consisting of such members as were all and every one such Does it follow that all and every one of the Churches founded by the Apostles were so I mean even such of them as are mentioned in Scripture Because these titles are not given unto all and every Church founded by the Apostles or Apostolicall men in the Apostles time We give instance of the Churches Smyrna Pergamus Thyatira Sardis Laodicea nay had the Authors duely considered what is said of these Churches Revel 2 and 3. I think they could not in reason said what they say here Nor 3. Doe these titles import necessarily that the Churches to which they are given did de facto and eventually consist of all and every one such These titles may and must at least of some of them be understood of their visible body synecdochically by a denomination taken from the better part as I would rather say of the body communiter confuse not universaliter section 6 The Authors of the Epistle touches not at the two former exceptions which yet are sufficient to overturn this Argument and I doubt not but one of the Authors he that as I conceive has been the Penner of this Epistle a man well enough acquainted in Argumentation and able to discern what may be alledged to be defective in an induction might well perceived but only labours to infring the third We cannot say they acquiesce to the common Answer that these expressions are to be understood of the better part Answ Yet as good and as judicious as you the whole stream of Interpreters untill Anabaptists
not conceive this exhortation tho to a duty of common obligation yet particularly intended and directed by the Apostle to the elect and truely redeemed amongst them not distinctly by the head and name pointing them out but confusè in the Visible Society they were amongst 2. Passing that assumption of the first syllogism the assumption of the second which is brought to prove the major of the first is as loose viz. that all these persons to whom the exhortation is directed or are exhorted to flee fornication are exhorted by that Argument taken from redemption as their condition This may well be denyed for why may not an exhortation to a common duty directed to a whole society mixed of persons of different spirituall conditions be pressed upon all by some Arguments common to all such as that whereby this exhortation is pressed vers 18. and upon some by some speciall Argument relating properly to them There can be no circumstance of the context alledged to prove why it may not be conceived to be so here supposing that the exhortation is directed to all But 3. To beat out the bottom of this Argument I prove from the very Text it self that the Apostle here speaking to the persons whom he calleth redeemed speaketh of them as such in the verity of the thing or object i. e. as truly and really redeemed and consequently cannot be conceived to speak it of all and every one in the Church of Corinth as the Authors themselves will confesse I doubt not I prove it thus these whom the Apostles calls Redeemed here they are such as might and ought themselves to know and be assured that they were Redeemed and had the Spirit of God dwelling in them But only such as are in realâ—ty and the verity of the thing Redeemed c. may and ought to know and be assured of this of themselves Therefore the second Part of this Argument is clear because otherwise a man might and ought to know and be assured of a lie concerning his estate which is deluded presumption The first part is also clear from the Apostles words v. 19. What know ye not that your bodies are the Temples of the Holy Ghost c. That know ye not so frequently used by the Apostle especially in these Epistles to the Corinthians and in this very Chapter five times imports a certain assurance of the thing he is speaking of and therefore here the Apostle imports that these whom he is speaking to as redeemed and having the Spirit dwelling in them they are such as may and ought to be assuredly sensible that they were redeemed And is not this place parallel to that of the very like expression 2 Cor. 13. 5. Know ye not that Christ is in you Which all Protestant Divines presse against Papists for proving Believers certain assurance and perswasion of grace and salvation Therefore I conclude That the Apostle by these whom he calls the Temple of the Holy Ghost understands them that are such indeed and in truth of the object and not in the judgment of charity And what an incongruous interpretation were it to put upon these words Know ye not that ye are the temples of the Holy Ghost redeemed with a price this sense Know ye not that ye are accounted in the judgment of charity temples of the Holy Ghost c. 4. Yet I think it cannot in truth be said that all and every one in the Church of Corinth were judged positively by the Apostle in the judgment of charity gracious renewed and sanctified ones even because of the grosse wickednesse he in these Epistles expresseth himself to have known to be amongst them section 7 The last exception the Authors of the Epistle goes about to obviate thus Neither hath it any weight with us to the contrair which is objected that there were grosse faults amongst them as divisions intemperance questioning the Resurrection incest Will not Lots drunkennesse Davids adultery Peters deniall prove these to be sins incident to the Saints tho justly censurable as the incestuous was excommunicate a man who once as is spoken of Gaius hath been approven of the truth it self though he be overtaken with grosse infirmitie albeit for it he be censurable according to the nature of his offence yea the highest Ecclesiastick Censure passe against him yet he is to be esteemed as a brother 2 Thes 3. 15. Answ 1. Tho that objected hath not with you yet has it had with many judicious and godly men in the Church of God both ancient and moderne much weight to the contrair I name for the present but one there be no doubt of many others because of the Controversie he is upon in making use of this consideration The godly Orthodox and ancient Augustine ad Donatist as post collationem cap. 21. where disputing against the Donatists maintaining separation from all other Christian Churches because of the mixture 〈◊〉 many wicked ones amongst them from that place 2 Cor. 6. 14 15 16 17. just as these Authors of this Epistle do afterward from that same very place ut non sit ovum ovo similius answers them from the consideration of these many grosse wickednesses expressed by the Apostle as abounding in that Church that there were many gracelesse persons amongst them yet they neither made nor were commanded to make separation from that Church I humbly desire the judicious Reader to be at the pains to read the whole Chap. and I shall but point at two or three remarkable Passages of it here see the Margine * In eodem quippe ipso populo CorinthioruÌ„ quod dicimus demonstramus ne forte arbitrentur prophetarum tantummodo moris fuisse non ad Novi Testsed ad Vâ—…eris consuetudinem pertinere sâ—c arguere reprehensibiles quasi omnes in eo populo arguantur sic allo qui laudabiles quasi omnes illi laâ—dantur Ecce ad Corinthlos sic Apostalus loquitur Paulus vocatus Iesu Christi per voluntatem Dei Sostheneâ— frater Ecclesiae quae est Corinthi sanctificatis in Iesu Christo vocatis sanctis Quis haec avdiens credat in Ecclesia Corinthiorum esse aliquos reprobos quandoquidem verba ista sic sonant velut ad omnes directa sit laudatio Et tamen paulo post dicit Obsâ—…ro autem fratres ut id ipsnm dicatis omnes non siâ—t in vobis schismata In ipsis etiam Corinthiis ibi erant qui non credebant resurrectionem mortuorum quae singularis sides est Christianorum Attendamus verbailla quibus Câ—inthiorum Ecclesiam in principio Epistolae sic laudat ut dicatâ— Gratias ago Deo meo semper pro vobis in gratia Det quae data est vobis in Christo Icsu quia in omnibus divites facti est is Ecce sic erant ditati in Christo in omni verbo in omni scientia ita ut iis nihil decsset in ulla graetia ut in illis essent qui resurrectionem
of the Visible Church formally consists baptizing if Mr. Lockier shall say that this cannot be done without the sentence of the collective body of Professours he 'll speak beside the book of God which holds forth to us baptisme administrate by one Minister alone without the knowledge of any particular Church and mentioneth not any instance so far as I can remember of Ministers requiring the vote of the Church for baptizing any at any time section 8 For the third the limitation of the Elderships exerting of power not without the consent and approbation of the Church Upon this 1. I would inquire of Mr. Lockier whom he meaneth by the Church without whose consent and approbation this ought not to be done Whether the whole Congregation i. e. all Members thereof promiscuously and indifferently or only some certain Members thereof excluding the rest If the whole Congregation and all the Members thereof Then women and children also must have an hand in these weighty maters of the Government of the Church which I cannot well think he will affirme sure I am will not be owned by many of his side and is contrary to the Word of God If not the whole Congregation but some certain Members viz. men these of years of discretion or of a manlyage Then 1. why speaketh he of the Church indefinitely without any such restriction not without the consent and approbation of the Church Are not women a part of the Church yea and children also under age unlesse we shall say that they are without i. e. of the world of heathens and aliens from the Israel and Household of God which is absurd Nay I suppose there may be a Church consisting of only women beside the Officers as in case all the men of a Congregation were removed by death or otherwise for must we say that a Congregation consisting of 40. men and as many women if by Pestilence all the men should be removed excepting the Officers thereof that it should because of this cease to be a Visible Church 2. It cannot consist with what he saith afterward in sundry of his Arguments brought to prove his Assertion In the first thereof he alledgeth that the power of the Keyes are given to persons not as Officers Apostles or Elders but as beleevers to the Church of beleevers and beleeving with such a faith as flesh and blood cannot reveal but I assume that Women are beleevers and beleevers with such a faith as well as Men Ergo by his Argument they must have an hand in the Government by their consent and approbation as well as the men Again in the third whereas he alledges that other wayes viz. than as he asserted the Elders cannot but offend the little ones of the Church yea the tender consciences of stronger Brethren for as much as persons may be taken in and casten out concerning which they can have no distinct knowledge I assume that this will hold as well for women little ones of the Church and sisters of tender consciences as well as men Because offending of these must be eschewed as well as of those Further in his fourth Argument he alledgeth as a ground of his Assert that the spirit of discerning is not confined to Elders but may be in great measure in some of the members and a greater gift when all are joyned together in the Name of Christ and his presence with them to discern and judge And addeth that the Saints shall Judge the World All which take in female Saints as well as male Saints section 9 2. When as there is a consent and approbation of acts of Government privat obedientiall and not-authoritative And a consent and approbation publick and authoritative by way of a judiciall decisive vote Why is it that the Author does not in his Assertion determine which of these he means 'T is true afterward in his 5th Argument he is expresse that the whole Church and so men women and children should be joyntly authoritative about these acts of Government But here in propounding the Assertion involves the mater in an ambiguous generality It would seem to bear the ignorant Reader in hand that we did grant nothing to people about these acts of Government but a passive blind obedience to what is determined by the Eldership It would seem I say this is the drift of it the rather that afterward SECT 5. end he hints at our Doctrine in this expression If the managing of all things be committed wholly to the Presbytery and the people left out only to see and judge implicitly by their eyes and wills who thus impropriat power But surely this is either a grosse misunderstanding or a foul misrepresentation of the Doctrine of Presbyterians in this mater which may appear by these things which they reach and grant unto the people in relation to matters belonging to Ecclesiastick Government As section 10 First we grant as to the mater of the Calling of Ministers and Officers of the Church that to all the people belongeth the power to nominat and elect the persons to be their own Church-Officers And that to put upon a people who are Christians and in a capacity to elect any Church Officer without their consent and election is unwarrantable intrusion But withall we affirm that this nomination or election is not an authoritative act of Ecclesiastick jurisdiction conferring upon the person any Ministeriall or Officiall power and authority but that this is conferred by the act of ordination 〈◊〉 the ordinary course appointed by Christ in his Church Ministerially under Christ and by vertue of his institution which act is to be performed by the Rulers of the Church and not by the people and that the nomination or election performed by the people is only the designation of the persons on whom this power is to be conferred by ordination if he be one as yet not ordained and is appropriated to be their Minister Besides we grant that any of the people has power to object any just exceptions against a person who is a calling to be their Minister and they ought to be heard and if their reasons be relevant they ought to be admitted section 11 Secondly we grant in like manner as to admission of members that any of the members of the Church has power to represent any just exception and reason they know against any person to be admitted and that their reasons ought to be heard and if relevant to be admitted section 12 Thirdly as to the Preaching of the Word we grant that the people are not obliged to give blind and implicit obedience to what is delivered by the Ministers as if they ought to receive as the Word of God whatsoever is delivered by them but that they have power and ought by the judgement of discretion to search the Scriptures whether the things delivered by the Ministers be so to try the spirits whether they be of God or not to prove all things and hold fast that which
denotating the body of beleevers only as contradistinguished from all Officers and Ministers and so is not speaking of Peter as comprehending or representing all Officers and Ministers but of Peter under the imaginary notion of a Pope or Head of the Church and as standing in contradistinction both to the body of beleevers and also to all Inferiour Officers and Ministers even conveened in a Councell and so of the Church as comprehending all Inferiour Officers and a generall Councell of them And here because some are ready for the Independent Tenent concerning the first subject of Ecclesiastick jurisdiction to alledge the judgment of the Parisian Theologs at and after the time of Councells of Basil and Constance affirming the Church to be that first subject it is to be observed carefully besides that these Theologs means not a particular Church but the Universall Church That the Question which they had in hand with their adversaries the Papaline flatterers was not between beleevers as such and all Officers and Ministers as such but between the Universall Church as comprehending Inferiour Officers and that as conveened in a generall Councell on the one part and the Pope of Rome on the other Whether the precedency of Ecclesiastick power and jurisdiction was seated in the Pope or in the Universall Church so considered as we have expressed This was the state of the controversie and that for which the Parisian Doctors stood was the latter of these This is clear to all that have read any of these Doctors Writings upon that mater So that to alledge their Assertion concerning the first and supream subject of Ecclesiastick jurisdiction for the Independent Tenent in this Question which is between a particular Church of beleevers on the one part as contradistinguished from all Officers and Ministers and Officers of the Church upon the other is very impertinent section 8 His second Argument SECT 3. is thus Elders are set over the Church by the voluntary choise of the Church whereof they are such Officers who choose them to be their Ministers in the Lord and may depose them again if they prove unworthy of such a station Therefore have they no absolute power over that Church to which they are servants but in the nature of guides to direct them in the wayes of the Lord and so long as they go right to be honoured and followed but if otherwise to be admonished and if impenitent to be rejected i. e. Excommunicated as they whose sins follow after to judgment Now such judgment could not be exercised upon Elders if such an exempted power be taken to themselves without the Church but might do what they please with the Church in which they are Servants and the Church not able at least not sufficiently able to do any thing to them which is to make them Lords over Gods Heritage 1 Pet. 5. 3. Answ Here is much impertinency in the conclusion inferred and in the antecedent bare Assertions begged but not proven and never will be 1. The conclusion propounded in the Assertion was that the Elders in a particular Church are not to exert power in most weighty maters as admission of Members ordination of Officers Excommunication without the consent and approbation of the Church i. e. without the judiciall concurrence consent and joynt authoritative vote of the members Now that which is inferred as the conclusion here that they have not an absolute power over the Church an exempted power to do what they please with the Church I appeal to all rationall men to give their judgement if this and that be all one Why May it not be that the Elders or Officers set over a particular Church may exert power in putting forth such acts of Government without the joynt authoritative consent and vote of the members of that Church and yet notwithstanding not have absolute power over that Church an exempted power to do with the Church what they please Yes verily for notwithstanding that they may in their exerting of power of these acts of Government 1. Only act Ministerially and adstricted to a certain definite rule over which they have no power And 2. if they in their exerting their power deviat from that rule and act contrary to the direction thereof the members may have liberty upon discerning by the privat judgement of discretion to refuse obedientiall consent to them 3. And there may be an authoritative power over and above them to which they may be countable who may authoritatively correct and redresse their deviation and to which the people may have recourse for that â—ffect And if so then their exerting of power in the maters of Government tho without the joint judiciall and authoritative consent and vote of the members therein is not an absolute power an exempted power to do with the Church what they please And so indeed it is in our Doctrine The power it allowes to Elders and Officers to exert acts of Goverâ—…ent without joint judiciall authoritative consent of the members is a Ministeriall power adstricted to a certain and soveraign rule of Christs Laws set down in his Word It allowes to people a liberty yea asserts it to be their duety to prove in the judgement of privat discretion if the Officers in their actings of Government deviat from or crosse the rule or not And in case they do not to give their obedientiall consent therunto And that there is authoritative power above the Elders of a particular Congregation c. So that the Author deals not ingenuously enough in insinuating such an aspersion upon our Doctrine that by it is given to the Elders of a Church an absolute power over the Church an exempted power to do with the Church what they please But now judge if the Independent way in that strain of it followed by our Author be not guilty of giving a power very like this to members over Officers When as it allows to the members or the greater part of the members of a particular Congregation which may be 3. or 4. to censure depose Excommunicat all their Officers which must be 3. at least by a supream Independent Authority without any Superiour Authority on earth left to have recourse to for redresse were their proceeding and sentence never so unjust this I am sure is very absolute exempted and lordlylike indeed Well then correct the conclusion as it is inferred here and reduce it to the more modest and ingenuous terms of the Assertion section 9 The antecedent or proof which the Author brings in this Argument for his Assertion and is very confusedly set down in effect is made up of these Assertions 1. A Church by their voluntary choise not only choise their Elders But 2. makes i. e. ordains them in their Office 3. May depose them again the Elders are the Churches servants by way to wit of relation to her as a Mistresse 4. The Elders are only guides to lead the Church to wit as a Chair-man or Moderator in a Judicatory
thee i. e. every one hath need of another his meaning were every one has need of another in authoritative judiciall actings of Government and therefore we must all whatsoever members we are help the good of the whole by concurring in such authoritative acting No such thing But he is there for remedying the abuse of gifts amongst the Corinthians amongst whom there was bestowed great variety of gifts and for preventing Schisms which might be occasioned and produced thereby Amongst many other considerations presented by him for that purpose he is I â—…y shewing generally that the Spirit having distributed variety of gifts in the Church not giving all to every member but some to one and some to another there is no member can stand alone by it self buâ— needs the help of another and the gift thereof whether it be a gift for ruling or for some other operation And 〈◊〉 it is that some of the gifts spoken of by the Apostle there are soul as belongeth not to these acts of Government nor are contributive of light for directing in going about and exerting them As for example the gift of healings the 〈◊〉 of speaking with tongues But would the Author yet duely 〈◊〉 the Apostles Doctrine along that Chapter I am perswaded he might therein find as much as does very clearly evert his Assertion 〈◊〉 to privat professours and members of the Church the 〈◊〉 â—he Keys and joint authoritative judiciall concurrencâ— with the Eldership in the acts of Government Nay I think that one Chapter contains as much as overâ—urns all the Independent Brethrenâ— new way and modell of Churches besides many particulars in 〈◊〉 contrary to severall particulars of this new way that one generall so clearly held forth in it of an Universall Visible Church is â—nough to batter it all to the ground as might be evidenced were it our purpose here But for the present to the paâ—ticular we are now upon doth not the Apostle there as also Rom. 12. declare the Visible Church in the constitution thereof to be a body not similar consisting of parts all homogeneall or of the â—ame nature quality and operation such as water fire and the like are But dissimilar as mans body is consisting of severall heterogeneall parts or members of diverse functions gifts and operations some as eyes some as ears c. some to be Rulers some to be ruled But if all must joyn in the judiciall and authoritative actings of Government all are Rulers all are eyes and if so where are the ears The nature of the body of the Visible Church as it is declared to be constitute by Christ is quite altered into another kind by this means SECTION III. Mr. Lockiers 5th Argument prosecuted from SECT 6. to SECT 11. inclusive discussed section 1 FIfthly saith he SECT 6. in these weighty things forementioned Censures Ordinaâ—ions c. The Scripture is expresse that the whole Church should be joyntly authoritative about them and not the Presbytery or Eldâ—…ship of the Church alone Hitherto we have had some Theologicall reasons such as they are brought by the Author for his Assertion How he has acquite himself in these for his intended purpose we leave it to all impartiall Readers to judge Yet what ever weaknesse be in these if he can bring us expresse Scripture for his Assertâ—on if one expresse Scripture we are ready to yeeld See then now how he makes good this undertaking only Reader take notice here what it is for which he undertakes to bring expresse Scripture That the whole Church should be joyntly authoritative c. if the whole Church then Women and Children are no part of the Church or they also must be joyntly authoritative in these maters of Government Either here is an hasty unadvised expression Or an uncouth undertaking that no sober man I believe will joyn in with him to bring expresse Scripture for Women and Childrens joynt authoritative concurrence in the maters of Church-Government which in effect is as much as to undertake to bring expresse Scripture contradicting it self But come wâ— to see how this undertaking is made good in these severall particulars that Scripture is expresse that the whole Church wâ—ether men of age women and children all together or men alone ought to be joyntly authoritative in these actings section 2 As for censures the command of Christ is that we tell the Church Mat. 18. 17. which word I judge doth mean the whole Church and not the Eldership only unlesse I could find the Church thus used in Scripture for the Presbytery only If it should be said that Church here meaneth the Jewish Synedrion and so by propâ—rtion the Eldership of the Gospel Church To this he Answereth two things 1. That the Synedrion was instituted for civill affairs Numb 11. 17. and then takes some pains to clear that these Officers mentioned in that place weâ—e only Civill Officers notwithstanding that they are said to have received a Spirit whereby they Prophesied and then concludes that to make a proportion between a Civill station to an Ecclesiastick is not regular 2. I see no reason saith he from the context why it should be thought that the Jewish Representative of â—ne kinde or other should be meant their convenâ—… judicum or their conventus Ecclesiastici c. Ans 1. Mr. Lockiers judgement concerning the meaning of the word Church I judge saith he may have its own due respect as the judgement of one man But 〈◊〉 must give us leave to have reâ—…â—oo 〈◊〉 judgement of the many Ancient and Modern 〈◊〉 for the 〈◊〉 part except of late untill Morellius 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 â—…ose have understood by the Church 〈…〉 the Elders and Rulers of the Church 〈…〉 Mr. Rutherf â—oaâ—gable plea cap. 8. p. 88. to whoâ— we might â—…de many moe 2. If so be that the word Church be of such signification as that it has been ordinarlyâ— used to signifie a â—…dge of Rulers and so migâ—… be applyed to signifie a Colledge 〈…〉 â—rgument to say the word 〈…〉 else 〈◊〉 Scripture is used for the Presbytery or Eldership only Ergo neither is it so used here in this place By a 〈◊〉 consequence one might say when it is said 1 Cor. 11 10 〈…〉 ought to have power on her head the word power cannot mean a covering as a signâ— of subjection to the power of the 〈◊〉 a double meâ—…â—… of the thing signified for the◠〈…〉 one Correlatum for another because the word powâ—… 〈…〉 found other where in Scripture used in this meaning Sure if that consequence be good the genuine true meaning of many places of Scripture wherein words are found taken in such meaning as they arâ— not to be found taken in else where should be overturned If a word in some particular passage of Scripture may in congâ—uity of speech bear such a particular sense and to take it in that particular sense in that particular place is not contrary to the Analogie of faith nor puts a sense upon the
caused them to make by suffrages to themselves Elders Now let any man judge if the Author has brought us expresse Scripture for private Believers formall and authoritative concurrence in the act of ordination of Elders And whereas he addes in the close of his Section By these two first examples are other Scriptures which speak of ordination as if they did attribute it to the Elders onely to be Interpret if other answers proper to such places cannot be found out I Answ If he find not out more proper answers for these places then to expone them by these two examples it may easily be perceived by what has been said that he is at a weak passe in maintaining his point undertaken And I pray tell us why such places of Scripture as plainly attributes the act of ordination to Presbyteries onely should be expounded to take in the people with Elders by these two examples wherein yet their is no demonstrative ground brought to evidence that the people had formall hand in ordination of the Officers mentioned in them And not rather these two examples or practiseâ— seeing it is not expresly said in them that the people concurred in the ordination be expounded by such places wherein the acts of ordination is expresly attributed 〈◊〉 Eldership alone I vâ—rily â—hink that to any understanding man the latter of these two will seem most rationall As for Arguments proving that â—ot the people but only the Officers of the Chuâ—…h â—…ve the power of ordination See these Authors often mentioned section 17 To close up this inducâ—ion of particulars Finally saith he SECT â—… I might instance in lower matters which would strengthen thâ— Argument for if in lesse things the Eldership may not act alone surely not in greater Answ 1. If Elders may not in lesser maters act without joint concurrence of the people what needeth that restriction in the Assertion first propounded not in most weighty things 2. It is a very weak Consequence In lesse maters they may not act alone Ergo not in greater Some persons may have the managing of great maters laid upon them by speciall commission from such as have supream authority to commissionate in these maters and yet have no speciall commission laid upon them to manage lesse maters Mens capacity to act alone or not alone but with others in such maters ariseth not from 〈◊〉 â—uantity or weight of the maters but from Commission and waâ—…â—nd granted by him that hath supreme power and authority over those things But let 's briefly see these particular instances of lesse things alledged by him here section 18 As in Letters recommendatory saith he they were not directed to the Eldership of such a Church but to the whole Church of which they were to be received So Paul recommended Phebe to the Church of Corinth 't was to the Church of Rome Rom. 16. 1 2. So John wrote to the Church concerning certain brethren that were to be received by them onâ— Diotrephes the Elder which stood upon his sole authority in this and such like things and used the Keyes at his own pleasure to keep out and cast out as he would is noted with this mark not to be of God but of Satan for this very thing and one that had not seen God Answ What poor stuffe is here to the purposâ— in hand 1. Directing of Letters commendatory to persons Eldership or Church is not their actings but the actings of some others that 〈◊〉 the Letters and I may say their passion But if it 〈…〉 recommendator◠〈◊〉 not be at all directedâ—â—to◠〈◊〉 â—…ceived by the Eldersh◠〈◊〉 but the whole Church 〈◊〉 â—…fesse this is a strange Assertioâ—â—nd he that will beleeve 〈…〉 ofâ— is too too credulous 3. The matâ—er that Paul recommend Pâ—ebâ— for to the â—oman Christians was a duty of common Christian love to intertain her kindly as a Christian to assist her as they could in her affairs at Rome a duty jure naturali incumbent to all Christians both conjunctly and severally And so the recommendation foâ— that on her behalf might well be directed to all Elders and people But interest of concurring in actings of Church Government being not juris naturalis but juris positivi persons must be sure of speciall warrant and vocation for concurring in them So that 't is but a very sick consequence if Letters of recommendation for such purpose as these for Phebe may be or if ye will ought to be directed to the whole Church then ought the whole Church also to concur in actings of Church Government and juâ—isdiction He must have a good head that will make it out 4. As to the instance of Diotrephes Mr. Lockier is I conceive in a mistake when he supposes that â—…ving of these Brethren for which Iohn did write to the Church was to receive them into the state of Church membership they needed not that they were Church members yea it seems Ministers before and an act of the Keyes It was a receiving of them into duties of Christian kindlinesse and charity v. 5 6 7. but what is all this of Diotrephes to the purpose Because Diotrephes one Elder usurped sole authority to himself alone in the Church made peremptor acts inhibiting the members to receive unto duties of Christian charity stranger-Christians did tyrannically at his own pleasure Excommunicat-persons and that for disobeying his unjust acts if he for this was marked not to be of God but of Satan not to have seen God must the same mark be put upon the Colledge of Elders in the Church if they all jointly and equally act authoritatively in matters of Ecclesiastick Government and jurisdiction without the authoritative concurrence of the whole CongregatioÌ„ yet not according to their own pleasure but according to the Rules of Gods Word nor yet pressing upon the people blind and absolute obedience but reserving to them the liberty of their judgement of discretion must they for this be Classed with Dâ—otrephâ—s 'T is evident Mr. Lockâ—… â—…liquely reaches this blow at Presbyterians but they need no◠〈◊〉 it I will spare what I might say to this Only this much 〈◊〉 â—e give better proof then yet we have seen for popular concurrence in Acts of Ecclesiastick Government I can judge no otherwise of suâ—… bitter hints as these then as is said of Diotrephes words vers 10. of that Epistle SECTION IV. Mr. Lockiers Argument from common Testimony SECT 12. considered and Answered section 1 MR. Lockier having alledged first reasons next some expresse Passages of Scripture wherein how he has acquit himself we leave to be judged by the impartiall discerning Reader in the last place Take saith he common consent for this truth i. e. his Assertion no truth that the whole Congregation are to have joint authoritative suffrages in all maters of greatest weight i. e. all acts of Ecclesiastick Government By common consent he must mean the testimony of Ecclesiastick Writers and now I pray what testimonies of Ecclesiastick Authors
and serve tables And therefore it was necessary some Officers should be ordained who 's more proper and chief work it might be to see to that businesse Yet certainly the Apostolick office containing in it eminently the power of all inferiour Officers in the Church it was an act formally belonging to their office and no Question even after these ordinary Officers were appointed particularly to attend that businesse yet the Apostles did not then altogether cease from joining in acting thereanent where they might conveniently without hindring their main work the preaching and spreading of the Gospel section 8 But in all this where are joint voices and suffrages of Officers Elders and Brethren of diverse particular Churches commissionated to this work to make up this Presbytery we speak of Answ There was joint acting of Officers of more Congregations than one the many Congregations whereof the Church of Jerusalem did consist whether they were distinguished and fixed in Members and Officers or not is all one and these Officers Elders to these Churches the Apostles who as they were Officers so were Elders too and acting as Elders because in a mater competent to ordinary Elders and jointly 2. Brethren not Officers may be present in such a Presbytery and speak and give their consultative judgement orderly But as no constituent parts of this Presbytery in our judgement nor according to the truth 3. When the Presbytery of more Congregations than one is made up of all the Elders of these Congregations assembled together personally a particular commission for that is not necessary Indeed in such Presbyteries as all the Elders of the severall Churches meet not personally but by some of their number delegated it is as in Synods necessary that these who make up such a Presbytery be commissionated from their severall Churches respectivè Yet by that commission they get not power simply to act the acts of Government therein that they have by their ordination to their office but a particular warrand and call to act that power hic nunc for the good of the Churches in the combination section 9 In the same SECT viz. 25. from what he has answered to the former passage he labours to answer other two places 1. That Act. 6. 3 4 5 6. about the choosing of Deacons and their ordination To which his answer is The Apostles as extraordinary persons layed hands on these But what appears from hence of such an Eldership excerped and commissioned from severall Churches as Presbyterians now assert and use is yet to find Answ 1. I wonder that Mr. Lockier should obtrude upon us such a naked Assertion that the Apostles did lay hands upon and ordain these Deacons as extraordinary persons i. e. as Apostles and not as Elders without making the last essay of answer to that reason brought by the Reverend Assembly of Divines against the dissenting Brethren asserting the same Ans to the reasons of the Dissenting Brethren pag. 52. I present it here in their own words that the Reader may consider if it be not of such weight as Mr. Lockier had cause to take it unto consideration if he had not thought fitter to dictate to then by light of reason to convince the judgement of his Readers As for that ordination Act. 6. we doubt not to say that in it they did act partly as Apostles partly as Elders In constituting an office in the Church which was not before they did act their Apostolicall authority But in ordaining unto that office men whom the Church had chosen they did act as Presbyters And we doubt not but that our Brethren will herein concur with us For if they will not say that they did herein act partly as Apostles and partly as Elders they must say they acted either only as Apostles or only as Elders If only as Elders thence it will follow that all Elders have power not only to ordain men but to erect new Offices in the Church If only as Apostles then hence is no warrand for any Elders so much as to ordain men unto an office But I yet wonder so much the more at this Assertion of Mr. Lockier here remembering what he had delivered before SECT 10. where he drawes an Argument from ordination of Elders performed by the Apostles for regulating the ordination of Elders in Churches now and thereupon alledging tho groundlessely that the Apostles in ordination took in the people to concurrence with them concludeth that now also they ought to concur formally in that act If they had acted as extraordinary persons as Apostles the people could not concur jointly with then in such an act nor could it been an Argument brought as a patern in ordinary Now if they acted not by their extraordinary office and power in ordaining Elders what reason is there to say that in the ordination of these Deacons they acted in that way 2. As to that but what appears from hence c. We say supposing that the Church of Jerusalem was made up of many Congregations and these Congregations were one Church which are proven from other Scriptures we find from hence for proving such a Presbytery as we speak for Officers of these Congregations meeting together for Government and joining in an act of Government ordination of Church Officers viz. The Apostles doing this and that as Elders which is the thing it is brought for by Presbyterians Which tho-by it self makes not a full medium to prove that Presbytery yet with the other suppositions taken with it makes very much to prove it section 10 2. Place is Acts 20. 28. The Elders there are shewed not to be Elders of many Churches which Paul sent for but the Elders of the Church v. 17. of one Church of the Church of Ephesus and charging them to attend to the stock and not to flocks ver 28. here is no joynt veice of various commissioned Elders Answ To passe that some of his own the Dissenting Brethren in the Assembly once in their Reasons against the instance of the Church of Ephesus make these both Elders and flocks to whom the Apostle speaketh to be of all Asia not only of Ephesus where no doubt there were more particular Churches To passe this because indeed these same Authors a little after when it may serve their turn they confine them to Ephesus We grant 't is true they were Elders of one Church the Church of Ephesus But withall we say that one Church was not one single Congregation but made up of more then one and consequently was one Presbyteriall Church This is proven by sundry Learned particularly by the Reverend Assembly of Divines in their instance of the Church of Ephesus and all the Reasons of the Dissenting Brethren brought to the contrare fully discussed in their Answers threunto As for the Authors Grammaticall Argument they are called Elders of the Church in the Singular Number not Churches and they are bid attend the flock not flocks Ergo it was but one single
to these Answers of the Assembly for full satisfaction and for the present say onely in brief 1. If all that is said in this Argument were granted yet would it not conclude simply against an Eldership Ruling more Congregations then one but only against an Eldership made up of Elders fixed in their Teaching to severall particular Congregations But nothing against an Eldership consisting of Officers noâ— fixed to severall particular Congregations but Teaching and Governing in common the severall Congregations associated under their one Government And likely it is that so it was in the Church of Jerusalem and others these first Churches Certainly the contrair cannot be proven And we think so it may be at thiâ— day as it is indeed in some Reformed Churches without repugnancy to any positive Divine institution But 2. granting that the Scriptures doe testifie that the ordinary Ruling power of Elders is not extendended beyond their ordinary power of Teaching for that which Mr. Lockier addeth that the Scripture holdeth forth that rather the Teaching power exceeds in extent his Ruling power we desire proof of it for he brings none we say that it is a mistake which is alledged that the Presbytery we speak for Ruling over more Congregations extends the ordinary Ruling power of Pastours beyond the extent of their ordinary Teaching power It does only extend the ordinary exercise or actus secundos of the one beyond the ordinary exercise or actus secundos of the other having herein a call to the one and not to the other which is no incongruity nor doth oppose any part of the Word of God As for the Scriptures alledged by the Dissenting Brethren in thâ—t forecited Reasons and from them here by Mr. Lockier we still affirm with the Reverend Assembly in their Answers none of theâ— proves the contrary they only shew that all these things belong to their Office and that this is the usuall practice and work of Elders where their work lyes But none of them prove it prohibited of God or unlawfull for an Elder upon a call to do or exercise one of these where they have not occasion and a call to do the rest Any thing that Mr. Lockier sayeth to the contrary of this is but his meer assertion but no proof from the words of the Texts for which I appeal to the judgement of any understanding man reading and considering the Texts themselves Let any man shew me out of these Scriptures any thing bearing this much Elders rule these particular Congregations only which you do ordinarily teach So we shall not need to insist upon them particularly only a note upon somewhat said by him upon some of them section 2 When as upon that Act. 20. 28. That there were many Officers belonging to this Church of Ephesus herein we join with him and that it is manifest here was but one flock on this wee join also as to the word one flock But that it was one single flock or Congregation only as he meaneth we utterly deny and affirme it was an associate flock or Church made up of severall single particular Congregations For proof and satisfaction herein we refer the Reader to thâ—â—ssemblies Answers to the Dissenting Brethrens reasons against the instance of the Church of Ephesus And here again I must crave leave to say Mr. Lockier exceedingly contemneth his Readers when as such considerable Answers being given and extant against all that could bee alledged by these ablest men of his side to prove that there was not many but one single Congregation in Ephesus he without any assay to infringe these Answers obtrudes 〈◊〉 bare naked Assertion that it was but one What Must 〈…〉 to him aâ— Pythagoras Disciples to captivate their judgement and acquiesce with 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 section 3 Against his reasoning upon this Medium he propounds an Objection as one of our Arguments Sect. 36. and Answers it Sect. 37. Obj. Elders may Preach in this Church and that and many particular Churches Therefore they may according to this you have said rule over many particular Churches To which he Answers 't is not occasionall Preaching which one Church by consent and desire may admit to another that the Scriptures forementioned make thâ— bound of rule But where mens fixed call and work he must mean the work of Preaching properly lyeth To where I am called to Preach he must mean ordinarily this bounds commensurates and proportions my power as an Officer to Rule so that to go beyond this is to go beyond the Word to oppose the Word Ans 1. Albeit from what you have said viz. that the power of Preaching and the power of Ruling are commensurat and of equall extent it should not follow that if Presbyters may Preach to more Congregations then one occasionally Therefore may Rule over more Congregations then one ordinarily Yet it will follow they may rule over more Congregations then one in such a way as they may Preach to them For say yee their Preaching and Ruling are commensurate by Scripture Yea further if Elders may Preach to more Congregations then one not only occasionally but ordinarily which they may as suppose in a City where are many Congregations the Ministers be not fixed to them severally but teach them in common as they may do without violation of any Divine institution and that de facto it was not so in the first Churches nothing can be brought to demonstrat it will follow such Elders may Rule over moâ—e 〈…〉 out 2. We do not make the occasion◠〈…〉 more Congregations then one 〈◊〉 râ—aso◠〈…〉 â—hey may rule over more then one ordinâ—rily 〈…〉 a Minister by Christs institution and 〈…〉 Office â—s a Minister and hath that office habit 〈…〉 to the Universall Visible Church of Jesus Christ 〈…〉 singlâ— Congregation see â—his abundanâ—ly 〈…〉 the Learned Mr. Hudson Vinâ—ic of the â—ssâ—… 〈…〉 c. 6. pag. 138. seq â—nd so may and 〈…〉 Oâ—fice and â—ny part thereof in relation to 〈…〉 Church i particular Congregation o◠〈…〉 according as 〈◊〉 promoving of the good of the whol◠〈…〉 and h◠〈…〉 particular call there 〈◊〉 and 〈…〉 of Preaching be bounded 〈…〉 yet his 〈…〉 Ruâ—…ng may be ordinarâ—…y 〈…〉 Congregatioâ—… havâ—… a call thereunto by 〈…〉 that Congreâ—…tion â—nd 〈◊〉 theâ—… together â—or 〈…〉 and 〈…〉 association 〈…〉 obliged to â—…ter 〈…〉 section 4 In thâ—â—…st of hi◠〈…〉 it 〈◊〉 are brought to 〈◊〉 that a Miniâ—…e◠〈…〉 wor◠〈◊〉 Preaching bounds hiâ— ordâ—nary power of 〈…〉 that whâ—… he does not that hâ—â—…nnot do this 〈…〉 Thess â— â—… 〈…〉 that labour among you 〈…〉 compared with 〈…〉 that â—…uring to be in the Worâ— and 〈…〉 These 〈◊〉 sayeth he â—eacheth that fixed 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 Ruling go togethâ—r Answ These placâ—… 〈◊〉 teach 〈…〉 here 〈◊〉 Preach ordinarily over these 〈◊〉 also 〈…〉 not that ove◠〈◊〉 only they rule Mr. Locâ—ier 〈…〉 but proveth not noâ—â—an prove from the words The Author hath it 1. 17. I will not say but it may be an
never so tender if rightly informed as they did eat so with good satisfaction they might eat it And generally what is not ordinarily to be done by a positive laâ— in an extraordinarie case when necessity requires may be done and a tender heart have good satisfaction in the doing of it even in things divine 2. The nature and constitution of Gods Ordinances is not estimat and defined according to what shape the hearts of men are apt to conceive he has put upon them but according to what his own word saith of his will concerning them It was yeelding to this aptitude of mens hearts in conceiving Gods shaping of Ordinances that baptizing by private persons and even midwives did spring from into the Church of God 3. The ordinary and expresse rule that we speak of that single Congregations should not exercise acts of jurisdiction of publick and common concernment by themselves alone without associat Elderships relates to the case when association may be had But when association cannot possibly be had as if a Congregation be in a remote Iland or divided from all other Churches by some other insuperable impediment of fellowship we say that in that case of necessity it is the ordinary rule to that Congregation to act as it is alone by it self If it shall be said seeing when it is that way alone it may exercise these Ordinances within it self then if other Congregations being in a capacitie to be joined with it may not exercise them alone it is abridged off the former liberty it had before when it was alone by it self I answ this is no abridgement of its liberty but only a strengthening of their power in things of common concernment As suppose there being five Elders in a Congregation while as they are only these five they may act in the Government of that Congregation Yet if other fix be added to them they may not now act without these yet this is no abridging of any liberty they had but a strengthening of their power The truth is that a Congregation in an incapacity of association with other Congregations exerciseth and dispenseth all these Ordinances within it self not as being one single Congregation but as being the whole Church A Congregation in such a case is as if there were not another Congregation in the world and that is to be the whole Church interpretativè Just as there being in a Congregation five Elders only these five act all things belonging to Elders in the Congregation not because they are such a definite competent number but because they are the whole number Because if they did act as being such a definite number they could not admit any moe to joyne with them in the work section 9 Further it is saith he confessed by our Brethren that the Judicatures of Classes and Congregations do not differ specifically but only in extension Then if they differ only in extension the intrinsecall power of the Elders of the Congregation is the same with the Elders of Classes And then there is no specificall act that the one puts forth but the other can put forth too as occasion shall require can Ordain and Excommunicate as the Collegiat Church and so is the Congregationall Church compleat if the Classicall Church be Answ 1. Mr. Lockier is not well enough acquainted it seemeth with the judgement of all Pâ—esbyterians concerning the difference between Congregationall and Classicall Elderships when as he sayeth that they confesse there is no specificall or formall difference between them if he were acquainted better with them he would find some to be of that mind that tho there be Elders of a single Congregation yet that there is not a Presbytery of a single Congregation having power to exercise Ecclesiasticall jurisdiction and I confesse it is hard to find any pattern in the Word of God of such a Presbytery But 2. When as he sayeth that in the confession of Presbyterians they differ only in extension he mistakes the judgement of the most part of all Presbyterians who and that indeed according to truth hold that the power of a Classicall Presbytery as to the exercise of Government not only reaches a larger object i. e. differs in extension but also more acts of jurisdiction as Ordination Excommunication which the Eldership of a single Congregation as one single Congregation cannot exercise and that is to differ intensivè But I suppose all were granted which is asked here that Classicall Presbyteries differ not specifically from Congregationall that their power of jurisdiction differs only extensivè that there is no specificall act exercised by the Classicall but the Congregationall may exercise in it self when occasion requires and so that it is compleat this way which is just such compleatnesse as we mean when we say that a Boy is a compleat Man tho all this were granted does it hereupon follow that larger associate Presbyteries juridicall are uselesse devices of men No wayes as has been shewed before Altho it were granted that the Eldership of a particular Congregation may exercise all these specificall acts there may be many cases wherein it may be not only expedient but necessary that the matter be judged and determined by an associate Presbytery as when it is a matter of great difficultie when other Congregations are much and nearly or equally concerned when there is division and difference in the Congregationall Eldership or Church that the matter cannot be agreed upon and determined amongst themselves when there is an appeal propter malam administrationem vel malam administrationem praesumptam c. section 10 Finally SECT 46. If the particular Church had not been compleat to do its own work without a forrain an associate Eldership the Apostles would have mentioned something of this combineing of Elderships and when this might been surely the Church of Christ durst not neglect the use of it And yet we find not the one and do find the other the Apostle when he took his leave of the Church of Ephesus commends it not to associat Elders but both Elders and people as one flock to the grace of God Act. 20. 32. Answ 1. Let it be so that the particular Church is compleat to do its own work Yet 1. Is not every Congregation as a part of the whole body of the Visible Church of Christ to look to the work of fellow members and parts and of the whole according to its measure and proportion of power Should one member say to another I must see to my own work Ought I to care for thee Are there not matters of publick and common concernment 2. No particular Church is politically so compleat as to do every work of its own in every case as has been shewed but it will in this stand in need of an associat Superiour Eldership 3. It hath been abundantly proven by the Authors we referred to before that Scripture is not silâ—nt but often mentioneth the thing of associated Presbyteries and all
confession that the bearing in of these thoughts upon them at first has been from no good cause or principle Not from the Spirit of God unlesse they will say it has been by an immediate impulse or Enthusiasme For say they it was after a long times suppressing of them that they began to consult with the Word of God about them for that is as I conceive to bring them to the ballance of the Sanctuary 3. If implicitely they engaged themselves to the maintenance of the Government desined and settled in this Church sure then if they will reflect upon the nature and tenor of the engagement they may find themselves to have committed in the very act more sin than they insinuate here or I will name For let them look back again unto the Nationall Covenant and they shall find that they not only engaged themselves to the maintenance of the Religion professed in this Church in all the points thereof But also declared and protested themselves under Oath after due Examination of their own consciences in maters of true and false Religion to be throughly resolved of the Truth thereof by the Word and Spirit of God and therefore to believe with their hearts confesse with their mouth and subscribe with their hands I do indeed â—ear that many did run unto that Engagement without such conviction of mind upon clear warrand of Gods Word found by Examination of the maters And as to do this with so solemne and dreadfull an attestation of God that they did it upon conviction of conscience was horrible guiltinesse So it may wel be apprehended that God in his holy judgement has suffered many for the discovery of the falshood of their hearts may be in mercy to some may be in wrath to others to revolt from these their former Engagements I wish from my heart these Brethren so I will yet call them if they will yet be so called by us if it be true which they say now that they engaged implicitely whereas they protested before God that they did it upon through conviction they would consider this lay it to heart and yet againe bring their present way to the ballance of the Sanctuary I have been with others witnesse of some who having engaged in the cause of God in these lands and caried themseves therein for a long time resolutely and actively and having afterward foully lapsed into contrary courses when they have been brought to Repentance for their backsliding Have declared that they found that their back-sliding had arisen from this that their engaging in the cause at first and going on in it formerly was not upon conviction from grounds of the Word of God but implicitely and for by and extrinsecall respects 4. It is not competent to me to question nor will I question their diligence in seeking of God when they began to enquire about this matter tho it be a thing usuall now-a-dayes for men to set out naughtiest wares with this inscription after seeking of God but as for using of all helps they could have to be cleared I think some thing may be questioned For besides helps of mens Writings upon this purpose might they not have used the help of the advice of the Judicatories of this Kirk and represented the grounds of their doubting to some of them Acts of Generall Assemblies require this that before men vent any innovations in matters of Religion they should first peaceably represent their Reasons to the publick Judicatures And albeit they may haply say that the very matters they were questioning was the Authority of these Judicatories Yet humility if they had not overweening conceits of their own wits above the judgement of these Judicatures and charity if they had so much as they ought towards the Church wherein they were born baptized instructed some of them had been for some years Ministers and acting in association in the established Judicatures thereof might it seemeth led them to so much But if they accounted the Judicatures unworthy the consulting with might they not have used the help of conference with some of these precious and learned men whom they professe to reverence If they did consult with any of them before they were determined in the matter yea before they did vent their new judgement is more then I know or can learn But come we to their determination and the confirmation of it section 2 So far say they as we can see the Congregationall way comes nearer to the patern of the Word then the Classicall form Here it may be asked why they say only that the Congregationall way comes nearer to the patern and not simply that it is the way conform to the patern of the Word What does the Congregationall way it self come somewhat short of the patern and is there a third way distinct both from it and the Classicall that comes full up to it Is there here a reservation for a further light It may be we may hear somewhat of this ere all be done But go we on to their desinition or proposition of the Congregationall way To us say say it appeareth that Christ hath furnished a Congregation with their Eldership with compleat power of Jurisdiction and censure within themselves There are here two things asserted by the Authors which accordingly they intend to prove by their two Arguments respectivè afterward built upon the passage of Scripture which they cite 1. That by Christs appointment the power of Ecclesiastick jurisdiction and censure is in the Congregation i. e. the body of privat professours and the Eldership jointly both being to concur formally in the acting thereof and not only in the Eldership 2. That any one single Congregation with its Eldership has compleat power of jurisdiction and censure within it self supreamly and without subordination to any larger or superiour Preâ—…yterie But for further clearing of their minde here it were requisit they should explain these two things to us 1. Whom they mean by the Congregation contradistinguished from the Eldership whether the whole collection of Church-members or only men and those of years of discretion If the former then Women and Children must be joint with the Eldership in the power of jurisdiction and censures If this be their minde we would know it and they would speak it plainly If the latter then it is not the Congregation but some part of the Congregation with the Eldership that has the power of jurisdiction and censure or else Women and Children are not parts constituent of the Congregation and then let them tell me where shall they find the name of the Church in all the Gospel in this notion taken for the Eldership with the â—ale-professours of adult years excluding Women and Children 2. Suppose the whole Eldership of a Congregation be scandalous and censurable who has the power of jurisdiction and censure to exercise toward them If jurisdiction and censure should be exercised towards them as I suppose it should be who has it and
eorum professione non moveremur Vt quod apud potestatem seculi erant confessi in Ecclesiâ constituti comprobarent Quamobrem Maximum Prespyterum jussimus locum suum agnoscere caeteros cum ingenti populi suffragio recepimus I need not comment upon the place it speaks plain enough of it self what we are pleading for section 18 3. That the giving of definitive sentence in questions of faith or making Ecclesiastick constitutions and canons concerning order to be observed in the Church in these ages did ordinarily pertaine only to Ministers of the Church Bishops and Elders that though others privat Christians might be present hear and consult that yet these only did sit and vote as ordinary Judges is undenyablie clear by the Historie of all Councels that were then held in the Church I say ordinary For I deny not but that sometimes such as were not in any such Ministeriall office did also sit and concur in giving definitive sentence But these were not any whatsoever privat Christians promiscuously But eminent learned and pious men and having authoritie and calling thereunto either by antecedent agreement of the Churches that were to meet in the Assembly or by a subsequent assuming and calling of them by the Assembly it self Which was an especiall vocation unto the Ministeriall office ad tempus and in relation to these particular acts which were to be done in the Synode and in so far did exempt them è sorte out of the state of meer private Christians But that such as were meer privat Christians i. e. were neither ordinary Ministers nor had a speciall calling extra ordinem concurred to give definitive sentence in Assemblies was a thing unknowne See what Junius a man well versed in antiquitie sayeth to Bellarm Cont. 3. lib. 2. c. 25. n. 2. speaking in relation to ancient Councels Eorum qui Conciliis intersunt varia esse genera Esse audientes qui in Doctrina ordine ex auditione informantur Esse doctos qui ad consultationem adhibentur Esse denique Episcopos Presbyteros qui decidunt res ferendis sententiis And again Cont. 4. lib. 1. c. 15. n. 15. qui sine authoritate Ecclesiae adjunt eorum alii etiam consultationibus adhiberi possunt ut docti praetertim Ecclesiastici sed dicere sententiam definitivam non possunt section 19 I hear of two main Objections which use to be be made against what I have been pleading for and for the concurrence of the people in the exercise of the Government of the Church 1. That is alledged of the Magdeburg Cent. 2. c. 7. p. 134. coeterum si quis probatos autores hujus saeculi perspiciat videbit formam gubernationis propemodum 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 similem fuisse To which may be added that of learned Whitak Cont. 4. q. 1. c. 1. sic partim Aristocraticum partim Democraticum partim etiam Monarchicum n. si velimus Christum ipsum respicere as he sayeth a little before est semperque fuit Ecclesiae Regimen Answ That these Authors called the Government of the Church either much like unto a Democraticall or in part Democraticall their meaning and intention was not that the whole body of private Professours did formally concur in the exercise of such acts as are formally authoritative and judiciall acts of Government which were requisite to make the Government formally and properly Democraticall either in whole or in part But only because of such things competent to them as we have mentioned § 14. which are no authoritative or judiciall acts of Government And first for the Magdeburg see how they explicate that which they say in the next following words Singulae enim Ecclesiae parem habebant potestatem verbum Dei pure docendi Sacramenta Administrandi absolvendi excommunicandi Haereticos sceleratos ceremonias ab Apostolis acceptas exercendi aut etiam pro ratione aedificationis novas condendi Ministros eligendi vocandi ordinandi justissimas ob causas iterum deponendi In these words there are two things expresly observable to our purpose 1. That they in explicating the Democracy they speak of speak not of the power of single persons as to maters of Government but of single or particular Churches Singulae enim Ecclesiae say they parem habebant potestatem c. whereby it may easily and evidently appear that while they say that the Government of the Church was much like a Democracy they mean this not to take away the Government out of the hands of Christs Officers of the Church to put it in the hands of the whole people at least to joine these with them in the formall and proper actings of it But in opposition to that authoritative and juridicall superiority of any one particular Chutch over other particular Churches as the Prelaticall men pleaded for authoritative superioritie in their cathedrall Churches over all particular Churches in the Diaecese and the Papalins for an universall superioritie and supremacie in the Church of Rome over all other Churches in the world 2. It is to be observed that among other things which they reckon up as parts of the Church Government which they say was much like Democracie they put in the Preaching of the Word and Admistration of Sacraments which themselves before say and no man of sound judgment will deny are acts proper to the called Ministers of Christ Whence also it is manifest that they mean not a Democracie properly so called which putteth the formall power and exercise of Government in the hands of all and every one of the multitude which the Independent Brethren plead for And indeed will any man consider what the particular Churches were to which these Centuriators attribute private Synods Cent. 2. c. 7. pag. 130. wherein it may possibly be conceived that Democracie could have place especially and it may easily be perceived that they were such as the whole body of the people for whose right to concur in juridicall acts the Independent Brethren pleads could not possibly meet together in one or be present at once in their Synods when assembled for exercise of jurisdiction For most part at least of them which they call particular Churches were of such amplitude and so numerous that such an assembling of their whole body was not possible and in truth they were Diaecesan or Presbyteriall Churches and not such single Congregations as the Question between us and the Independent Brethren concerneth For mark it in that very place last cited speaking of these particular Churches and their private Synods they bring in the Romane Church for an instance And who knows not how numerous the Christians in Rome were become ere that time Adde to these things that these same Authors Cent. 3. c. 7. p. 151. say expresly that jus tractandi de excommunicandis aut recipiendis publice lapsis penes Seniores Ecclesiae erat and cite Tertul. Apolog. for it read also c. 6. ejusdem Cent. pag. 129 l. 30.