prayed for the encrease of that which needed you say no encrease at all Againe you doe therein very plainly giue the Apostle the lie who doth elsewhere auouch that so long as hee and the rest of Gods children remaine in this mortall life they but know only in part yea and that so they must doe till this their imperfection be vtterly abolished by the comming of that which is perfect And therefore this your first reason concerning the Apostles perfection of faith is to too absurd very false and vnreasonable Besides that there is small reason wee should credit your bare affirmation concerning that their supposed fulnes of faith we hauing especially the authenticall iudgement of one so farre surmounting your selfe in the depth of Diuillitie I meane your friend Master 〈◊〉 who telleth vs confidently that doubtles the Disciples they 〈◊〉 in an especiall regard of themselâ—â—â— I 〈◊〉 to stirre vp and encrease their faith and therefore this first reason of yours is vnworthie by Master Darell his iudgement to receiue any answere Exorcistes Whatsoeuer Master Darell auoucheth concerning the Apostles prayers for the timely encrease of that their miraculous faith very certaine I am they did more therein then God inioyned them to doe in regard of any their extraordinarie gifts and graces and therefore their said prayers if they only respected but the timely encrease of any their ordinarie graces make nothing against me Orthodoxus How came you so throughly acquainted with those the secret counsels of God that you are certaine the Disciples in praying for the timely encrease of their extraordinarie graces did more therein then God himselfe inioyned them to doe Exorcistes I am I assure you very certaine thereof and so much the rather for that they had no reuealed word from the Lord to warrant the same Orthodoxus They had besides their ordinarie approued practises the vndoubted reâ—â—lationâ— and motions of Gods spirit therein as may very â—â—â—bablie appeare by the extraordinarie blessing and effect which the Lord at that instant bestowed vpon their holie endeuours concerning Tabitha and the father of Publius Howbeit because you so confidently auouch that the Disciples did more therein then they were inioyned by God doe tell me I beseech you whether they sinned or not in doing the same Exorcistes Nay surely howsoeuer they prayed they sinned not therein as may plainly appeare by the good successe of their prayers for whereas God heareth not sinners he heard them effectuallie and granted vnto them the request of their lips Orthodoxus It is not alwaies safe to reason from the successe of our prayers either one way or other because the Lord he might heare them in iudgement and so the Disciples notwithstanding any the successe of their prayers they might fearefully offend in crauing an encrease of that which needed you say no encrease at all Besides that they hauing as you further affirme no reuealed word to warrant their prayer the same could not possiblie be put vp in faith and being not made or put vp in faith it must needs be sinne for whatsoeuer is not of faith is sinne and so by consequence the Apostles if they prayed in such sort as you say they sinned no doubt Briefely the Apostles and all others they are not onely to forbeare from the doing of what which God hath forbidden but which more is they are strictly enioyned withall to doe onely that which the Lord commaunds them to doe if therefore the Apostles then prayed to God hauing thereunto no warrant at all from his word they did more therein then they were commaunded of God and so they sinned in doing the same Exorcistes I am sure whatsoeuer you say to the contrary that the Apostles in praying for the timely encrease of any their extraordinarie graces they did more therein then they needed to haue done neither yet did they sin at al in doing the same Orthodoxus If they did more then they needed to haue done and yet sinned not at al in doing the same it seemes by your speech that the Apostles prayer it was then some 〈◊〉 of supererrogation at least and so therein not onely they iumped iustly with our Papists now whom we generally condemne for such an insolent and proud conceite but which more is they dealt directly therein against the holy institution of their master Christ. Who wils them else where that when they haue done whatsoeuer they were able they should notwithstanding acknowledge themselues but vnprofitable seruants and so by consequence if in praying as before the Disciples did more then they needed to haue done then surely howsoeuer the pride of mans nature might superarrogate some thing vnto it selfe it appeareth by Christs mouth that they were but arrogant sinners if that which your selfe doth auouch be counted for currant Howbeit your friend master Darelâ— analyzing and expounding the text doth tell vs directly that this Scripture containeth first a commaundements to fast and pray and then next a promised blessing in doing the same By which it is very apparant whatsoeuer you praâ—e to the contrary that the Apostles in so praying they did no more then they needed but that rather which was imposed vpon them by a speciall commaundement from their master Christ. Yea and that also according to the meaning of Christ himselfe who hauing told his Disciples before that the very weakenes of their faith was one speciall impediment to the speedy dispatch of that speciall busines then teacheth them further that they should haue quickened their said faith by feruent and earnest prayer to God Exorcistes Whatsoeuer you tell me concerning master Darels exposition this text may at no hand be peculiarly appropriated to the Apostles themselues for many respects Orthodoxus What is one to begin with Exorcistes Why this If that Scripture hath speciall relation to the Apostles themselues as you seeme to auouch then surely howsoeuer they had faild in their enterprise they might notwithstanding haue made this one defence or excuse for themselues namely that they had no spare time for those speciall exercises since they first saw the childe The which so fit a defence or excuse they would neuer haue omitted being especially so sharply reproued of their master before Orthodoxus That Scripture it may not be appropriated to the Apostles you say for many respects making their pretended excuse from a supposed want of time in the timely dispatch of those speciall exercises the principall respect thereof Surely a worthy respect and the same very respectiuely put downe no doubt for many respects For First you were throughly acquainted it seemes with all the spare time the Apostles then had at that present Secondly it is very likely you knew how much of that time they must necessarily haue bestowed to the full in the effectuall discharge of that duetie Thirdly you were also very certaine no doubt that if they but wanted one minute of that your appointed time
the day long about a new nothing to hang on their sleeues Or they may well be compared to an intricate Labyrinth or maskaring maze from whence when a man is once entred into them he wots not which waies to winde himselfe forth as may plainely appeare vnto such as carefullie consider the same and this in effect for the Pamphlets themselues The spirit which may be supposed to indite those pamphlets should make wise men beware how they doe rashlie entertaine them for truths before they haue soundly tried the same with the touchstone of truth This sacred triall being dulie obserued herein it may greatly be feared that the spirit inditing those pamphlets will hardly be found to sauour of that wisedome which is from aboue which is pure peaceable gentle easie to be intreated full of mercie and good fruites without grudging without hypocrisie but rather to tast of that wisedome which descendeth not from aboue but is earthlie sensuall and diuellish And howsoeuer no man knoweth the secrets of man saue only the spirit of man which is in him and therefore may iudge nothing too rashly of man before the time yet when the Lord himselfe is come and hath lightned things which were hid in darknes and made manifest the counsels of the hart to all mens eyes then I see no reason at all but that by the out-goings of the spirit a man may as easily discerne the nature of the spirit it selfe as iudge of a tree by the fruites And therefore when we behold men caried headlong with selfe conceits vaunting very prowdlie with the Anabaptists and saying Quod volumus sanctum est quod nolumus id iniquum iniustum Whatsoeuer we will or affect that same is holie whatsoeuer we nil or affect not that same is vniust vnholie Briefly when we do heare M. Darel and his vnderhand fauorits in sundrie places of their published pamphlets to cry out and confesse that all the learned men in the land are of a contrarie iudgement to them and yet notwithstanding do prowdlie oppose themselues to all the learned men in the land as though the word of truth came out only from them or came only vnto themselues what should set them agog in such a glorious vaunt but only a prowd and insolent spirit Againe when we heare how these vnrulie spirits doe nothing else in effect but rayle vpon men reuile their persons yea and euen vtterlie disable the iudgements of such and so reuerend personages as they themselues in comparison of true learning in deede of sound knowledge and of all good gifts and graces of the spirit are vtterlie vnworthie to be named the seauenth day after the meanest of those whom they so deepely disable what may we imagine should hale them headlong an end in such a disgracing course but only some phrentike some furious or some carnall spirit sith the holie spirit of truth hath told vs for truth that where there is nothing but enuying but strife and diuisions there the men themselues are yet carnall and walke but as men Againe when as their published pamphlets are pestered full of apparant contradictions the one very cruellie giuing a countercheck and cutting the throate of the other as hereafter appeareth how may we iustlie imagine that any other then an erronious and a lying spirit should be the primarie inditor thereof seeing the holie spirit of God is the spirit of truth euermore but one and the same and leadeth men alwayes into all soundnes of truth and Religion Againe when as they do nothing in effect but accuse and sclaunder throughout their seuerall pamphlets they care not whome what drawes them thereto but a diuellish satanicall spirit sith the Diuell you know hath euermore beene the accuser of our brethren If they haplie imagine that those whom they accuse or slaunder are but beasts and no brethren at all we answere that is much more then they are able to know and we hold them no competent Iudges concerning such cases especially as the Lord hath purposely reserued to his proper Consistorie and appropriated wholly to his owne iudgement seate Neither shall it suffice to say that howsoeuer they be thought to accuse or to slaunder they speake but the truth of euery of them because if that were so indeede yet they do it vntrulie in as much as they do it only to reproch and to slaunder the persons of men and not to reforme their supposed disorders For neither do they proceede therein by a iudiciall course neither yet are they iudiciallie called to testifie against them and so not only they breake the ninth commaundement but which more is they do very daungerouslie scandalize the minds of so many in the land as being but ignorant before of those their falslie supposed crimes are now by their clamorous accusations vncharitablie drawne into an hard conceit against their persons Whether this be not a diuellish Satanicall spirit let M. Darel himselfe determine who doth very confidently affirme that so many as are giuen to cursing and lying to speake euill of persons which are in authoritie to rayling reuiling sclaundering hatred and such like they are vndoubtedlie the childrē of the Diuel who himselfe was a liar and a murderer from the beginning Briefly when we behold them throughout their whole pamphlets not only to impugne her Maiesties high Commission concerning ecclesiasticall persons and causes but which more is by toong by penne by practize and such other apparant shewes of vndutifull subiects to resist her highnesse authoritie and which is worst of all euen then to accomplish euerie of these when they were by God forbidden by her highnesse restrayned by due order of lawe conuented conuicted apprehended imprisoned by the sentence of Iustice definitiuely condemned for grosse malefactors adiudged to prison and so consequentlie by God himselfe by her excellent Maiestie by course of lawe by all good conscience and by the approued practise of all holie Martyrs enioined eftsoones to a dutifull silence whence come these vnrulie proceedings I pray you but from such a rebellious spirit as neither for feare nor for conscience can be made to subiect it selfe to Gods sacred ordinance but prowdlie resisteth the same and so procureth the sword of Iustice to be vnsheathed against themselues and to take vengeance on them as vnrulie and turbulent spirits Thus then the truth of the premisses is verie apparant you see as well by the seuerall pamphlets as by the spirit it selfe which may well be supposed to be the indighter thereof And therefore we would to God good christian Readers you could suffer vs a little in our foolishnes and in very deede you do suffer vs. For we are iealous ouer you with a godlie iealousie because we labour to prepare you for one husband and to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. Howbeit we feare least as the Serpent beguiled Euah through his subtiltie
is ioyntly recorded among the sonnes of God and therefore notwithstanding the ioynt recording of this one with those naturall diseases which are now to be cured by onely meere naturall meanes that supernaturall curing of the precedent and subsequent possessions whatsoeuer it was then and is now if anie such be euen equallie and proportionablie most admirable straunge and miraculous Moreouer if the pretended possession of diuels whatsoeuer must therefore be now deemed but a meere naturall maladie and only because it is ioyntlie recorded among those other diseases of men which are meerely naturall a thing to too absurde and senceles then surely besides that you do therein directly crosse your former speech where you make it a supernaturall maladie the curing of possessions now whatsoeuer must needes be as meerely naturall as the ordinarie curing of all other the naturall diseases recorded therewith And so by consequence your prayers and fastings they are now but meere naturall medicines no lesse naturally effectual for the ordinarie curing of people possessed with diuels then anie other physicall receits whatsoeuer for the ordinarie curing of meere naturall diseases which were meerelie absurde to imagine but most palpable grosse to auouch Otherwaies if the possession of diuels whatsoeuer be as your self doth els where affirme a supernaturall disease and the remedie also thereof namely praier and fasting a supernaturall remedie then surely the curing of such possessions whensoeuer and by whomsoeuer effected it also must needs be supernaturall straunge and miraculous for a like cause argueth a like effect And so by consequence the working of miracles must still be continued in the Churches of Christ an opinion directlie opposite to the approued iudgements of all men For all doe vniformely auouch and very confidently conclude in one that the working of miracles was only but a temporary priuiledge particularly bestowed on some and that also for those two former respects namely the declaration of Christs deitie and confirmation of his glorious Gospell as in our sixt ninth and tenth Dialogues hath beene shewed at large Exorcistes Howsoeuer principallie for those two former respectes there were in the dayes of Christ an essentiall possession of Diuels and other diseases yet were there some other cause or causes besides especiallie the outragious sinnes of people the which also our Sauiour Christ in curing the parties possessed doth eftsoones admonish them of as wee shewed before Howbeit the selfesame sinnes doe now remaine among men in these dayes of the Gospell and therefore also the selfesame essentiall possessions Orthodoxus That there were essentiall possessions eyther then or now we haue euer denied and your selfe shal neuer be able to proue the same before you haue fullie disproued the seuerall reasons put downe in our second third fourth and fift Dialogues concerning those speciall points Notwithstanding all this if by the way the same should be graunted which by sway of argument would neuer be gayned yet were there no sequele at all in your argument For besides that the same is your old accustomed suresbie a posse ad esse you doe reason absurdlie and fondlie in reasoning thus The like sinnes doe still remaine among men in these dayes of the Gospell therefore also the like essentiall possessions Surelie you shall neuer be able to make vs beleeue that this consequent is currant vnlesse you can soundlie perswade vs before hand that the vnmatchable God hath by some matchable couenant concluded couertlie with Exorcistes himselfe to make the execution of any his wonderfull iudgements inflicted on sinners euerie way proportionable and suteable to Exorcistes his phantasticall and itching conceit For wee haue shewed before that the Lord did not purposelie inflict that extraordinarie iudgement vpon men for their sinnes and your quoted Scriptures they proue no such matter as wee told you also before If notwithstanding all this you wil needs haue your sequele canonized currant then how answere you this The like sinnes do remaine among men now a dayes which were heretofore found in the dayes of Noah therefore there is now also the like ineuitable floud of water that then drowned the world Exorcistes That followeth not For the Lord God by a perpetuall couenant hath put a finall end to the like floud of water for euer and sealed that selfesame couenant with a perpetuall signe Orthodoxus Euen so hath our Sauiour Christ by a solemne perpetuall promise as it were put a finall end to the actuall possession of diuels and sealed vp that selfesame promise by a perpetuall signe I meane his death and resurrection as in our sixt and seauenth Dialogues appeareth But goe to then how answere you this The selfe same sins remaine at this day which were erst to be seene in Sodome and Gomorrah therefore also the selfesame iudgement of Brimstone and fire from heauen Or this there is one and the selfesame deriding of the Prophets and seruants of God which was in the dayes of Elisha therefore there is one and the selfesame deuouring with Beares Or this there is the selfesame prophanenes now which was erst in Samaria therfore the like feareful destruction by Lyons Or this There are as bribing companions now in these dayes as euer was Gehazi himselfe therefore there is now the like leprous vengeance on them that was erst on Gehazi himselfe Goe to now Exorcistes what say you to these and the like exceptions against that your precedent inuincible argument Exorcistes These were euery of them extraordinarie iudgements Orthodoxus And what one liuing man but your selfe alone was euer so impudent as once to auouch that the possession of diuels whatsoeuer is an ordinarie iudgement of God Exorcistes Well sir how extraordinarie iudgements soeuer the Lord God notwithstanding if it seemeth him good hee may euen now in these dayes of the Gospell inflict any one of them all vpon Sinners Orthodoxus Oh sir recall home your wits I beseech you I haue told you ofttimes before and must now tell you againe that the question is not what God may doe but what hee now doth in these dayes of the Gospell We verie confidently affirme that the Lord now in these dayes of the Gospell doth not afflict any person by an actuall possession of diuels because the two onlie ends of that wonderfull iudgement are long since determined your answere thereunto is euermore but one and the same namelie the Lord may doe it a sillie poore answere God knowes And thus in all your disputations when wee once come to the verie period or point of the question you are euen forciblie constrained to continue as before your circular motion from a bare may be to the being of things Exorcistes In deed sir if it were certainely true that men heretofore had bin only possest for those two former respects I would then without further contradiction ioyne fullie with you in this speciall point Howbeit very certaine it is that they were also possest for outragious
ioyning their hands together againe before the daunce be quite done But the gallant in the meane time hee keepes a flouncing and frisking about as though he would teach the whole world a new tricke in dauncing So surely you play the yong gallant in this your idle discourse For in the verie title of your booke you come hand in hand with some straunge and grieuous vexation by Satan and then shaking hands at the first with that your assertion you neuer ioyne hands with the same before the full period of this your rouing discourse but keepe in the meane time a vengeable coyle about the essentiall possessions and dispossessions of Diuels by fasting and prayer as by a perpetuall ordinance purposely establisht by Christ for that selfesame purpose But now being growne very wearie with your violent fiskings and figgings about those your idle vagaries you begin to ioyne hands afresh with that your former assertion which only concerneth Satan his grieuous vexations Howbeit you are fallen giddie it seemes by reason of your too often tripping and turning about or otherwise so fearefully possest with the turne-about sicknes as you wot not well what you say but onely imagine that those your pretended Demoniakes were all vexed by Satan if not essentiallie within them yet by some externall operation of his or at least were otherwaies afflicted If not so that yet the hand or iudgement of God was one way or other vpon them but by what way or meanes you know not your selfe And yet forsooth as if all your idle conceits were certaine Oracles from Apollo Pythius at Delphos you dare proudly presume to iustifie thereby the aduice you gaue and the worke of your hands concerning the same An aduice you know not wherein and a worke you wot not well whereabouts as it seemes by your words and therefore how could you in such doubtfull vncertainties either pray in faith or expect any blessing in hope Notwithstanding what was the aduice you gaue and wherein I pray you consisted the worke of your hands Exorcistes The aduice which I gaue and the worke which wee practised was prayer and fasting being thereunto secretly summoned by the Lord himselfe who so oft as he inflicteth any iudgement vpon vs doth put vs in minde of girding in sackcloth as appeares in sundrie places of Scripture Orthodoxus Yea but how could you possiblie conceiue any certaine forme of prayer or faithfully put vp any feruent petition to God not knowing certainly before with what kinde of iudgement the parties themselues were presently afflicted Put case they were not afflicted at all or molested only but with some melancholike passion how then could you vse words in your prayer concerning the speedie remouing of Satan his supposed essentiall possession hee hauing in the partie distressed no such possession at all Againe suppose the parties were vexed with some kind of sicknes vnknowne to your selfe and you put vp petitions to God concerning only some other disease how could you vse your proper termes to expresse the desire of your heart or put vp your praiers in faith to God for the speedie remoouing of a iudgement you wot not what Is it not more then audacious impudencie thus presumptuouslie to determine a certaine course in any such doubtfull vncertainties As for your quoted scriptures they only doe testifie the peoples humiliation by prayer and fasting so oft as any straunge iudgement of God was fearefully inflicted vpon them but proue not essentiall possessions and dispossessions of Diuels by prayer and fasting as by a speciall ordinance perpetuallie establisht by Christ for that selfesame purpose And therefore they conclude not the cause you pretend but rather the contrarie Neither doe any of those scriptures import the thing it selfe for the which you produce them my meaning is they doe no waies demonstrate vnto vs that any one of those iudgements of God were at any time remooued by sole prayer and fasting alone without the ordinarie assistance of some other ordinarie meanes annexed thereto Or if any the said iudgements of God were forthwith remoued by sole prayer alone without any ordinarie meanes besides then surely the said worke it was vndoubtedly a miraculous action As for example in Iudges the people of Israel intending a iust reuenge vpon the Beniamites for their so shamefull disorder they prayed and fasted before howbeit the Israelites sword and speare was the ordinarie meanes whereby the Lord ouerthrew the Beniamites So in Samuel againe being to wage warre with the Philistims they prayed and fasted for their happie deliuerance but yet the sudden thunder of God was the matter that daunted the Philistims hearts and the Israelites weapons the only ordinarie meanes that made so bloudie a massacre among the whole armie So in the Chronicles the Israelites being to warre with the Ammonites they prepared themselues to the battell by prayer and fasting howbeit the slaughter of the Ammonites it was effected by meanes of the intestine dissentions among themselues So in Ester the Iewes being proscribed and destinated to a fearefull destruction they prayed and fasted for their hoped deliuerance notwithstanding the personall presence and prudent perswasions of Ester were the ordinarie meanes which pacified Ahashuerosh his anger against them So in Ionah the Niniuites being threatned with present destruction they prayed and fasted howbeit their faithfull conuersion whereof their said prayer and fasting were onely but fruiâ—es was the ordinarie meanes that turned away their threatned destruction So likewise Nehemiah hee prayed and fasted to testifie his faith towards God his loue to his people and sorrow for that their present condition howbeit the industrie and diligent labour of skilfull artificers was the ordinarie meanes that erected their Citie So in the Acts the people they prayed and fasted for Peters deliuerance but yet Peter was extraordinarilie and miraculouslie deliuered by the Angels meanes By all the premisses you see it apparantly euident that sole prayer â—lone is not the onlie meanes but that rather which fauâ—tinieth some other ordinary meanes for the timelie remouing of any the iudgements of God Neyther can you possiblie propound any one instance from out of the scripturâ—s wherâ—in â—â—le praâ—â—r and fasting alone without some other 〈◊〉 meanes concurring therewith did euer effect anâ—e worke whatsoeuer but the same was euermore reputed a miraculous action And therfore do you plainly auouch that in euery of those your pretended dispossessions by sole praier fasting you wrought true miracles or els now at the length giue ouer your grosse errors for shame Yea and this so much the rather by how much you may plainelie perceiue that the faster you runne the further you roane from the marke and the more you seeke to confirme the more you confound your owne cause Being now brought you may see to such issue as you know not what to make of the matter it selfe which you labour to mannage Neyther yet can certainelie tell
saluation in heauen and strength and the kingdome of our God and the power of his Christ. For the accuser of our brethren is actually cast downe who accused them before our God day and night But they ouercame him by the bloud of the lambe and by the word of his testimonie and therfore reioyce you heauens and you that dwell in them Exorcistes This vse concerning the finall determination of Satan his actuall possession maketh men carelesse and lulleth them very shrewdly asleepe in all carnall securitie Orthodoxus Nothing lesse I assure you Nay rather this doctrine of ours concerning the finall determination of Satan his power of actuall possession is so farre off from making vs carelesse concerning Satan his spirituall assaults as it rather kindleth our care by many degrees Yea it doth more consideratelie put vs in mind of Satan his inexorable and outragious malice towards men in the mischieuous practise of that his power of obsession Who perceiuing himselfe so vnrecouerablie and so determinately driuen from his actuall domineering ouer the bodies of men doth stirre vp and kindle his said wrath to the vttermost in the speedie execution of that his said power of obsession yea and this so much the rather by how much he knowes very well that hee hath but a short time to worke This makes him verie earnestlie to entreate the Lord that he may become a lying spirit in the mouth of false Prophets This holds him in continuall desire to sift and winnow the soules of Gods seruants as men winnow wheate This makes him to dart his sundrie suggestions into the mindes of the wicked This causeth him to replenish the heartes of hypocriticall Professours with all vntruth and lies This maketh him by his owne messenger I meane the rebellious prickes of the flesh vnmeasurablie to buffet the deare saints seruants of God This maketh the great red Dragon to draw with his taile a third part of the starres of heauen and to cast them downe on the earth This enforceth the furious Serpent to cast forth after the Church euen flouds of water from out of his mouth that the said Church might be carried away of the floud Yea the consideration of Satan his shortnes of time to worke is that which causeth him continuallie to trudge all about seeking whom he may possible deuoure And for this purpose he snatcheth continuallie at euery occasion as well without as within vs labouring especiallie to blindfold the mindes of men at the hearing of the word or while men sleepe to play the enuious man at the least by mingling tares with their wheate that so corrupting their iudgements hee might captiuate their minds at his pleasure and cause them to commit all manner of vncleannes yea euen with greedinesse This therefore you see should make vs so much the more watchfull ouer our wayes our words and our thoughts by how much wee know the disease in the entrals to be much more daungerous then those without and an intestine warre more deadlie then are the enimie his outward assaults I meane those inward temptations and suggestions of Satan arising vpon our naturall concupiscences inordinate desires and carnall lusts will much more endaunger our slumbring soules then any his externall operations concerning our bodies vnlesse they be the more watchfully looked vnto and the more warilie resisted with the spirituall armour of God For by them he wil make vs in continuance of time to forsake and fall from our first loue and zeale of religion By them hee will bring vs into a secure and sensles condition By them he will breed a benummednes ouer our soules so as being once without feeling he may draw vs to all manner of vncleannes Yea by the custome of them he wil so seare vp mens consciences as not onlie they shall speake lies through hypocrisie and become reprobates concerning the faith but so carrie themselues in their whole conuersation as iniquitie shall haue the vpper hand and the loue of many become key-cold Lycanthropus Surelie it is euen so as you say and therefore the Lord make vs more circumspect in euery condition but I pray you proceed Orthodoxus Moreouer this Doctrine of ours laying forth so directly vnto vs the finall determination of Satan his power of actuall possession and the continuance of his power of obsession it teacheth vs plainely the full compasse and measure of the diuell his commission wherein his spirituall power more especially consisteth how farre it extendeth it selfe what he can possiblie doe and wherein he is most able to hurt vs to the ende we may become wise in furnishing our selues with spirituall weapons and be made more couragious in resisting his vttermost force Yea surely the fruitfull consideration hereof should deliuer and free vs quite from those many vnnecessarie and wonted feares wherewith in former times we haue been fearefully taken vp and tormented by reason of our grosse ignorance concerning this counsell of God and for not knowing rightly what powerfull restraint the Lord hath layd vpon Satan his actuall power of possession Whereby it comes eftsoones to passe that being in company with a supposed Demoniake and mightily dismayed with a causelesse feaâ—â— of Satan his essentiall inherencie in the bodies of men we dare neither open our eies our eares nor our mouthes for feare of his leaping essentially into our selues forgetting in the meane time these inward suggestions and spirituall temptations wherewith he doth howerly assault and circumâ—ent our slumbring soules This therefore may fully suffice to reforme our iudgements concerning these points that being now no more ignorant hereafter of Satan his enterprises we be not circumuented by him at vnwares but may surely keepe watch ward may stand fast in the faith may quite vs like men and be ready to encounter with all his assaults Pneumatomachus The Lord enlighten our harts with this sacred knowledge and sanctifie the same to our soules but proceede in the rest Orthodoxus Moreouer in that this Doctrine of ours concerning the finall accomplishment of Satan his power of actuall possession is so mightely impugned by some and hath such hard intertainement in the minds of men it offreth vnto vs a very fruitfull consideration of Satan his deepe policie cunning and sleight concerning especially such points of faith as doe plainely discouer his craftie practises and wylie proceedings against our soules As for example we may euen by these matters in question very apparantly perceiue his circumuenting purpose in withholding of men from keeping due watch and ward against his power of obsession by setting them so earnestly at an idle gaze concerning that his pretended power of actuall possession which Christ he knowes very well hath long since determined and concerning which there is now no danger at all That by this his cunning deuise he might hold mens minds from all holy meditations concerning their
the possessed mans minde which were to too absurde to imagine and for that also the word bagnath it selfe may at no hand endure such a violent sense as may plainely appeare by the orderlie conference of this one with some other places of Scripture where the selfesame word is also in vse As for example Iob intending purposelie to stay the rash and intemperate iudgement of those his three friends by recalling their minds to some timelie consideration of God his vnspeakable maiesty he telleth them thus excellentia eius an non tebagneth id est terrebit vos which we may not thus translate at any hand the excellencie of Iehouah shall it not be essentiallie inherent in euerie of you for that were to too absurde but rather thus the excellencie of Iehouah shall it not mightily amaze your mindes that is shall not the timely consideration of his incomprehensible Maiestie be able to breed such an astonishment or feare in euerie of your hearts as may make you forthwith to desist from those your rash and presumptuous iudgements which more especiallie concerne my present condition So likewise the Prophet Dauid declaring what griefes he endured before he was fullie established king saith thus in effect The sorrowes of death compassed mee about torrentes nequitiae iebagnathuni id est terrebant me and the floudes of wickednes astonished or made me afraide And not thus the floudes of wickednes did essentiallie enter into my mind for that were to too absurd The like vse of the word bagnath you may see in sundry places besides By this then it is apparantly euident that seeing this word bagnath in no one text els may possiblie import any such essentiall inherencie in eyther bodie or minde as your selfe doth imagine but signifieth only some mentall astonishments perturbations or passions you may not without manifest violence to the originall word vnderstand this one place of Saul of any essentiall possessions by either spirit or diuell whatsoeuer your English phrase imports for the same Exorcistes Well sir whether you translate it a vexing or an astonishing the text telleth vs plainely that those vexations or astonishments of Saul they were vndoubtedly effected by an euill spirit of the Lord and must therefore be necessarilie vnderstoode of some one diuell or other essentiallie inherent within him Orthodoxus That followeth not For albeit we should graunt by the way those selfe same astonishments or frights of Saul to be some immediate worke of the diuell which will neuer be proued yet must those the aforesaid astonishments be onely vnderstoode of some actuall operation and not of any essentiall possession as may plainely appeare by the opposition of spirits put downe in the text For consider I beseech you the text it telleth vs plainelie that the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul and an euill spirit of the Lord astonished him From the which opposition of spirits I reason thus The euill spirit of the Lord it so astonished Saul as the good spirit of the Lord possest him before But the good spirit it onely possessed him effectiuelie not essentiallie therefore the euill spirit it astonished him onely effectiuelie not essentiallie Thus then you see that the very opposition of spirits put downe in the text it striketh starke dead your idle conceits of essentiall possessions Howbeit as by the good spirit of the Lord we are onely to vnderstand the good graces and gifts of the spirit which were wrought before in the heart of Saul namely a principall spirite a spirit of prophesie and such other good gifts so likewise by the euill spirit of the Lord we must vnderstand the bad disposition and qualities of Saul his corrupted spirit which being then made destitute of the graces of God and euen vtterlie left to it selfe did follow the sway of it owne inclination which made him forthwith astonished fearefull furious yea vtterly disordered in his iudgement or reason And therefore this affliction you see it must onely be vnderstoode of some mentall passions and not of any essentiall possessions Exorcistes I cannot beleeue for all this but that Saul was essentiallie possest of a diuell Orthodoxus Why man the verie effects themselues which followed his said astonishment doe flatlie conclude the contrarie For neither was he blind nor deafe nor dumbe nor lame nor sensles nor endued with supernatural knowledge or strength which you say are the vndoubted true signes of essentiall possessions Neyther was he at any time hurtful vnto him selfe or dangerous to any one of his Courtiours but onlie malcontented amazed astonished and euen mad in his minde so oft as he but onlie remembred the glorie of Dauid among the daughters of Israell And therefore there was in him no essentiall possession of spirit or diuell but some temporarie disordered perturbations or passions of minde his iudgement or reason being vtterly distempered by a finall depriuation of the graces of God Exorcistes Nay sir his certaine dispossession doth plainely argue an vndoubted essentiall possession of some spirit or diuell at the least For the text telleth vs that when Dauid but plaied before Saul with his harpe Saul was forthwith refreshed and eased for the euill spirit departed from him Orthodoxus Why man the manner of this his deliuerance it doth argue the contrarie of that which you say For tell me I pray you hath the sound of an harpe any force at all to expell a diuell essentiallie inherent in any mans bodie This we hold for a certaine that no created meanes may effectiuely extend it selfe to the powerfull effecting of any such supernaturall actions as doe any way concerne the essentiall dispossessing of spirits and diuels the which point in our eight Dialogue is handled at large And therefore the melodious sound of Dauids harpe it might onelie asswage for the present those melancholike passions which mightily swaied in Saul his minde but it could not possiblie haue cured the essentiall possession of spirits or diuels if any such had bin extant in Saul Otherwise it would consequentlie follow that men might fiddle forth spirits and diuels from parties possessed and so there should be a necessarie vse of pipers and fidlers for the timelie dispossessing of these your pretended Demoniakes As for Saul howsoeuer his bad humour was eased a time it is verie apparant hee was neuer perfectly cured thereof to the day of his death and therefore not essentiallie possessed Thus then you may see it apparantly euident both by the proprietie of the originall word by the plaine opposition of spirits put downe in the text by the effects themselues which followed of Sauls astonishment and by the manner of curing that selfe-same maladie that Saul was neuer essentiallie possest with either spirit or diuell and so consequentlie that till a little before the comming of Christ there were no possessions at all in Israell Yea and thus much also that generall admiration of all the people which concerned especiallie those
of diuels being an internall torment it hath a promise more absolutely I meane in plaine English whether God will or not This you auouch in effect throughout all your pamphlets in sundry places therefore proue this assertion soundly by either Scripture or reason and the conquest I assure you is your owne Notwithstanding howsoeuer Exorcistes surmiseth the contrary we doe confidently auouch that all externall torments whatsoeuer inflicted by Satan they haue so much more certaine promise of speedy deliuerance then these your supposed essentiall possessions by how much that their said promise of speedy deliuerance is more apparantly and more certainely auouched to them then is any to these your pretended essentiall possessions of Satan For howsoeuer you may possibly beare vs in hand there was some gratious promise of speedy deliuerance graunted freely vnto it in tenebris I meane in some secret corner very certaine we arâ— whatsoeuer you prate that there is no apparant precept or promise concerning such matters throughout the whole Scriptures as shall more plainely be proued when we come to that point And therefore that sillie poore instance wherewith you endeuour to proue a more speedy deliuerance from those your pretended essentiall possessions that selfesame instance arising especially from those your particular actions now iustly called in question it concludes not your cause howsoeuer therein you doe but triflingly colludeâ—ith â—ith â—our ignorant Reader no no it is onely a pitifull begging of that you should proue For we flatly auouch that those your eight pretended Demoniakes they were not so possessed at all and therefore not dispossessed by your prayer and faâ—ting Briefly when you are able as substantially to demonstrate the vndoubted certaintie of your essentiall possessions as Christ hath vnanswerably established the infallible truth of his glorious resurrection we will then by the grace of our God endeuour our selues to become therein also not faithlesse but faithfull Thomasses In the meane time you must be content though we also accord and iumpe iustly with those your other Antagonistes who doe purposâ—ly reiect your phantasticall opinion of essentiall possessions Moreouer we doe here aduertise your selfe withall to wonder no more that the learned-men of our land should be of a diuers iudgement to yours vntill you haue exactly considered and fully answered our former Dialogues Againe we would wish you to forbeare from those your insolent vaunts concerning your hauing of Scriptures and Fathers fâ—lly on your side vntill you haue sufficiâ—ntly answered the seuerall Scriptures and Fathers let downe in our sixt Dialogue at large Briefly we would haue you surceaseâ—rom â—rom that your shamelesse pretending of common experience vntill you haue flatly confuted whatsoeuer our seuenth Dialogue setteth downe to the contrarie Yea and all these the former forbearings we would haue you so much the rather to performe by how much we see it is nothing repugnant to the nature and will of God to denie your supposed essentiall possessions especially now in these daies of the Gospell Exorcistes Oh yes sir the Lord he hath threatned wonderfull iudgements both written and vnwritten therefore he hath also threatned the essentiall possession of spirits and diuels Orthodoxus Or euer I answere the very point of your argument I must necessarily censure a little as wel your inconsiderate quoting as also your vnconscionable abusing and prophaning of Scriptures For first in Deuteronomie we must in any case accompt your essentiall possession of diuels some vnwritten wonderfull iudgement howbeit in the Reuelation forsooth you will haue vs esteeme of the same as of some written iudgement of God And thus betweene written and vnwritten you keepe such a coyle as men must neuer be quiet before the supposed essentiall pessession of diuels be deemed if not a written yet some vnwritten iudgement of God at the least But goe to propound your owne argument Exorcistes I propound it thus All wonderfull iudgements whether vnwritten or written are vndoubtedly threatned to disobedient persons But the essentiall possession of diuels is some wonderfull iudgement of God vnwritten or written therefore the essentiall possession of diuels is vndoubtedly threatned to disobedient persons Orthodoxus I doe first answere your proposition thus All such wonderfull iudgements as the Lord in his eternall counsell hath decreed for iudgements those whether vnwritten or written are vndoubtedly threatned to disobedient persons Then next I denie your Assumption namely that the essentiall possession of diuels is any such wonderfull iudgement as the Lord in his eternall counsell hath decreed for a iudgement neither will you euer be able to proue the same But goe to admitte by the way your argument were currant in euery point which will neuer be proued what then how doth this conclude your supposed essentiall possessions now in these daies of the Gospell Exorcistes Oh yes sir if you admitte the premisses I doubt not to proue that Consequent by a necessarie prosyllogisme in this following order Whatsoeuer wonderfull iudgements vnwritten or written are perpetually threatned to the disobedient persons those iudgements they are also perpetuallie inflicted vpon the disobedient persons But essentiall possessions being some wonderfull iudgement vnwritten or written are perpetually threatned to the disobedient persons therefore essentiall possessions they also are perpetually inflicted vpon the disobedient persons Orthodoxus The proposition of this your necessarie prosyllogisme it halteth downe right and will neuer be made to goe currantly an end with all the cunning you haue For then all the wonderfull iudgements of God whatsoeuer whether vnwritten or written being perpetually threatned against must also be perpetually inflicted vpon the disobedient persons and so by consequence there should be no saluation for any in Christ. Exorcistes Why sir the essentiall possession of diuels it is onely but a corporall iudgement and inflicted vpon men in this present life Orthodoxus Then is the same also but a conditionall and temporarie iudgement and may not be auouched perpetuall For where the condition of the iudgement it selfe is not perpetuall there also the perpetuitie of the iudgement falles flat to the ground Exorcistes Though the essentiall possession of diuels be in deede but a temporarie iudgement the Lord notwithstanding he may now in these daies of the Gospell inflict the same vpon some if so it seemeth him good Orthodoxus And he may cease to inflict the same vpon any for euer if so it seemeth him good which is euery way as likely and as probable as that which you say your selfe Howbeit because this is not to answere in deede but rather to hacke sword with sword we will therefore more exactly examine the very point of your argument which I take to be this namely the Lord he may now inflict the essentiall possession of diuels vpon some in these daies of the Gospell What then therefore he doth now also inflict the same vpon some that followeth faire and farre off Although yet this in
very deed is your vnanswerable argument throughout your whole pamphlets almost as all men may plainely perceiue that shall exactly consider the same Wherein like a superexcellent Logitian you doe but blindly reason from a bare may-bee to the being of a thing in deed which concludeth as iustly as Germans lippes that stoode seuen miles distant asunder Howbeit if you will haue it in any case accompted an irrefragable reason then what say you to another of mine being cast in one and the selfe same mould with yours thus The skie may now fall and so shall we haue great store of Larkes therefore the skie is now falne and we haue great store of Larkes If your selfe were forciblie constrained to feed vpon the onely most admirable fruite of such a phantasticall sequell till you haue fully confirmed your cause in hand it is to be greatly feared that the very faintnesse of body would force you to desist from your labors before you had finisht your businesse Exorcistes Not so For there is as great cause the Lord should inflict this iudgement now as at any time heretofore Orthodoxus It is vtterly vntrue For the manifestation of Christ his Deitie and the confirmation of his glorious Gospell were the maine causes of possession in Christ his time those causes being ceased long since how should the effect it selfe be still continued So then the maine ends of possessions being long since determined who seeth not lesse cause of inflicting that temporarie iudgement especially now in these daies of the Gospell But be it supposed there were now as great causes of such a wonderfull iudgement as euer before what then Seeing the same as you lately confessed is onely but a conditionall or temporarie iudgement and therefore to be then and there inflicted when and where it seemeth good to the Lord from whence haue your selfe receiued this large Commission that you dare thus proudly presume to limitte forth the Lord his times and his seasons for the seasonable inflicting of this your supposed most wonderfull iudgement The onely wise God he standes in no neede of your counsell and direction concerning the timely inflicting of this one or any other of his temporarie iudgements For who euer taught him how to dispose of any his iudiciall proceedings with the sonnes of Adam So then we conclude this point with Master Darrell and say thus vnto you You take too much vpon you good brother in thus presuming to vnderstand aboue that which is written and meete for your selfe to vnderstand and doe not vnderstand according to sobrietie Know you not good brother that the things reuealed belong onely to vs and our children Why then dare your selfe thus insolently vndertake to limitte the Lord his times and his turnes for the timely inflicting of his temporarie iudgments and to auouch your own apocryphall conceipts as vnanswerable reasons of those your pretended essentiall possessions which the Lord hath no where reuealed vnto you but in truth the contrarie as appeareth plainely euen in all our precedent Dialogues Exorcistes Howsoeuer your selfe do restraine the essentiall possession of diuels to the only manifestation of Christ his Deitie confirmation of his glorious gospel verie certaine it is that the aforesaid essentiall possession was euermore a iudgment inflicted also vpon the vngodly for sinne But sinnes of euery kinde are now as rife in the world as in any age since the beginning and therefore the Lord hee may now as iustlie inflict that punishment vpon sinners as heretofore he hath done Orthodoxus I make none other restraint of that temporarie iudgement then the sacred Scriptures doe make thereof as in our sixt seauenth and tenth Dialogues appeareth Notwithstanding be it confessed that sinnes of euerie kind are as rife in this our age as euer before yet who made you of counsell with the Lord that you dare so peremptorilie and so precisely put downe the supposed essentiall possession of diuels it being but temporarie as a wonderfull iudgement of God inflicted especiallie vpon men for their sins Seeing it is certaine that euen those natural infirmities themselues which doe now remaine in the world are not alwaies inflicted vpon men for their sinnes yea and sith it is also vndoubtedly true if we speake properlie and according to the depth of Diuinitie that the afflictions which the Lord layeth ordinarilie vpon the Elect in this life cannot properly be called the punishments for sinne And therefore it must necessarilie follow that eyther the possession of diuels whatsoeuer it was not especiallie and purposelie inflicted vpon men for their sinnes but only for the two former respects or if so that then only the reprobate sort were fearefullie subiected to that speciall iudgement And so by consequence Tho. Darling he was not then possessed at all because the whole world and you also your selfe doe ioyntlie hold him an elected child of God Moreouer if some naturall infirmities were purposelie inflicted on men not for sinne as you say but for the onlie manifestation of the glorie of God without any regard of the partie his sinnes then why not much more a supernaturall maladie I meane the actual possession of diuels It being especiallie but a temporarie iudgement of God tending more especiallie to the glorie of God yea and which more is the admirable curing also thereof appropriated more especiallie and onlie to Christ himselfe as to that onlie sonne of Dauid who was actuallie to bruse the Serpents head and triumphantlie to suppresse the Lion and Dragon Besides all this if the possession of diuels whatsoeuer was a wonderfull iudgement inflicted vpon men for their sinne it is verie likely then that our Sauiour Christ in curing the same as in the rest of many other his miraculous cures would also haue put the possessed especiallie in mind of their sinnes and of sinning no more Howbeit hee neuer gaue those men whome he deliuered from Satans possession any such watchword at all concerning eyther their sinnes or their sinning no more and therefore it is verie probable that that temporarie iudgement was neuer purposelie inflicted for sinne but onelie for those the aforesaid respects Neyther can those your quoted Scriptures in any possibilitie conclude your former assertion concerning the inflicting of actual possessions vpon men for their sinnes those selfesame Scriptures hauing onelie a relation to some naturall infirmities and not to this your supposed supernaturall maladie I meane your essentiall possession of diuels Furthermore if possessions whatsoeuer be inflicted especiallie vpon men for their sinnes it is verie likelie the same being so extraordinarie a iudgement would haue beene more especiallie inflicted vpon extraordinarie sinners but that we may plainely perceiue to be otherwaies For not onelie the same was eftsoones inflicted vpon sillie poore persons vpon young children and infants but which more is that your pretended patient he did you say vndergoe that wonderfull iudgement not so much for any sinne of his owne as
for the sinnes of Nottingham and the Countrie about and therefore it appeares by the premisses that euen the actuall possession it selfe was not alwaies inflicted vpon men for their sinnes Now then if not for sinne as hath beene declared then for the two former respects But these two respects are long since determined and therefore the possession of diuels whatsoeuer was long since also concluded and ended Brieflie be it supposed that the possession of diuels whatsoeuer was euermore a wonderfull iudgement inflicted especiallie vpon men for their sins and that there be now as great sins in the world as euer before yet your ordinarie conclusion a posse ad esse inforced from thence namelie that therefore men may be as well possessed now as at anie time heretofore if so it seemes good to the Lord doth not necessarilie follow thereof For this may be possessed now doth not certainely conclude any certaine possession now vnles you can first very certainely demonstrate vnto vs that euen now also as well as in Christs time it seemeth good to the Lord to inflict vpon men the selfe same wonderfull iudgement Because howsoeuer it be vndoubtedly true that the Lord if it seemeth him good may do all things whatsoeuer yet this also is as vndoubtedly true namely that whatsoeuer the Lord willeth that onely doth he in heauen and in earth Which will of the Lord when you by the witnes of his owne mouth are able to auouch directlie vnto vs as an vndoubted confirmation of this your singular conceite concerning the essentiall possession of Diuels we will then very willingly giue ouer the field and yeeld you the conquest In the meane time if we also should argue against you thus The Lord God he hath besides the possession of Diuels ten thousand strange iudgements in store to inflict vpon men for their sinnes therefore purposely pretermitting this temporarie iudgement of actual possession he may fearefullie inflict any other iudgement vpon obstinate sinners If I say we should argue on this sort a posse ad esse would you not forthwith conclude great childishnes in vs And yet this sophisme of ours from a bare may be to the being of a thing in deede it hath so much more probabilitie of truth then hath yours by how much the actuall possession of Diuels was only but a temporarie iudgement and long since determined by our Sauour Christ as in our seuenth eight ninth and tenth Dialogues very plainely appeareth Exorcistes Nay sir I haue the consent of all Churches the testimonie of Fathers of trauellers of Papists yea and the very vaunts which the Iesuites make of their Exorcistes calling to proue the continuance of essentiall possessions now in these daies of the Gospell Orthodoxus Your consent of all Churches for any thing hetherto heard is onely a consent consisting wholy in silence Moreouer whatsoeuer may be the testimonie of Fathers herein your writers themselues they are onely brought in as dumbe shewes on the stage and so they depart againe without speaking at all vnles happilie their generall silence must argue their particular consents to your purpose in hand Otherwaies it may be supposed that the great multitude of Fathers whom you haue so mightely mustered on rankes in your margine they would haue been made to parle and to fight in your quarell as well as Wyerus had they not taken the pette at your manner of marching or been suddenly depriued of speech As for Wyerus his rouing report concerning the seuentie possessed at Rome in one night with the thirtie also at Amsterdam it smels of the rotte and argueth some Legerdemaine among the Exorcistes there at the least Both because the parties themselues being but Children were the lesse able to espie and withstand the intoxicated potions and bewitched inchantments of those cousening paltrie Priests and for that those their pretended possessions befell them so on the sudden as if the possession of Diuels were onely an infectious or catching disease Besides that Wyerus he is one whose authenticall credit your owne selfe hath else where disabled in matters more likelie then this and therefore the lesse reason we should credit his rouing reports in these matters especiallie so strange and incredible Now next concerning those your trauellers that must tell vs their terrible tidings of your essentiall possessions in places else where you know the accustomed Prouerbe namely that such as haue been at Rome may lie by authoritie In consideration whereof we deeme it much better for vs to entertaine at our pleasures those the Romish reports of your trauellers then to trauerse the trueth of their trothlesse tales by trauelling our selues to Rome for the due triall thereof In like manner the testimonie of your Papistes is of little importance concerning these speciall points Both because when the same shall be brought to the highest degree it is but the bare testimonie of some cogging Copartners in the selfesame like cosoning practises and for that also the reporter thereof is onely Thyreus a man whom your owne selfe doth deeplie discredit throughout your whole Pamphlet yea and M. Darrel he saith to conuince by such is to beate the ayre and not to dispute Brieflie your Exorcists calling their pretended power and proud vaunts for the powerfull expelling of Diuels euery of those suting so fitly with Exorcistes him selfe and his seuerall practises are all very fitly and fully confuted by D. Fulke vpon seuerall occasions and in sundry places throughout our sixt ninth and tenth Dialogues The which reuerend and learned Doctor did therefore not purposely bend his penne against the non-being of actuall possessions now in these daies of the Gospell because in his time the being thereof was neuer so confidently braued out before now nor so impudently auouched from pretended examples of particular persons as it is now by your selfe Exorcistes But why seemes it incredible there should be essentiall possessions in these daies of the Gospell Orthodoxus Because the working of miracles being ceased long since the possession of Diuels whatsoeuer being alwaies miraculous did euen then also determine therewith as in our sixt ninth and tenth Dialogues appeareth Exorcistes It seemes then by the purport of your speech that to be possest with a diuell is a miracle and not any disease which was sometimes miraculously cured For why the ceasing of miracles putteth only an ende vnto miracles and not to any the diseases them selues which were sometimes miraculouslie cured by Christ otherwise we should haue none sicke now in these daies of any naturall disease whatsoeuer Howbeit as all other naturall diseases notwithstanding any their miraculous curing in the daies of Christ are yet still continued amongst vs now and are cured also by meere naturall medicines so surely there may be essentiall possessions now as a supernaturall maladie remayning with men although no such miraculous curing of possessions now as were heretofore effected by Christ and his owne Disciples Orthodoxus Howsoeuer you catch at any thing
miraculous manner of working by him Thus then you see their said deliuerance being determined with God before all times it was accordingly promised and performed in time And as before the Law written from the very first creation the Lord obserued this method order in the orderly manifestation of any his vnchangeable ordinances so surely both at and after the giuing of the Law there was in him no shadow of chaunge concerning that selfesame vnchaungeable course For First hauing determined with himselfe before all beginnings of time to establish the Morall Law as a perpetuall rule of perfect obedience not onely he did in very fitte time make promise thereof to his people but which more is after the full expiration of foure hundred and thirtie yeeres I meane at the very appointed season it selfe he did correspondently accomplish the same Neither hath the Lord obserued such an orderly methode of working onely before and at the giuing of the Law but euer since then he hath beene altogether one and the same in the orderly accomplishment of al his actions as may plainly appeare in his orderly establishing and subuerting of the seuerall Monarkes how mightie soeuer in the seauentie yeeres captiuitie of Israell his people in the birth and death of his onely Sonne in the vniuersall establishment of his glorious Gospell in Ierusalems finall destruction in reiecting his owne people the Iewes and in bringing the Gentiles into their roomes And as in all these the precedent operations and actions so likewise in the powerfull dispossessing of Satan and in the finall determination of that his tyrannicall power of actuall possession the Lord hath carefully obserued not onely in purposing but also in promising and performing the selfesame order accordingly For as the Lord before all beginnings of time did purposely determine such a temporary iudgement as a peculiar demonstration of the Deitie of his onely Sonne and promised withall the admirable conquering of the selfesame iudgement in that promised seede which was actually to bruse the Serpents head so hath his said Sonne correspondently accomplisht the same by his death and resurrection destroying through death him that had power ouer death that is to say the Diuell Yea he hath spoyled Principalities and Powers made such a shew of them openly and so triumphed ouer them all in his Crosse as we may boldly assure our selues of the finall accomplishment of that which our Sauiour affirmeth saying Now is the iudgement of this world now is the Prince of this world cast out that is his power of actuall possession is fully and finally determined According to that his authenticall message else wherâ— vnto Herode saying Behold I cast out Diuels to day and tomorrow and the third day I shall be perfected or the third day I will make an end of that businesse The premâ—sses therefore considered there is no more reason to doubt of the finall determination of this one then of any other the eternall Decrees of God whatsoeuer For seeing the Lord not onely purposed the finall determination of Satan his power of actuall possession from before all beginnings of time but also very solemnely promised and most powerfully effected the same in that promised seede which was actually to bruise the Serpents heade who seeth not euen one and the selfesame methode and order herein obserued as in all other the forenamed purposes and determinations of our eternall God And therefore there is no more reason to denye the finall determination of this one then of any other the like purposed operations of God vnlesse we doe purposely entend to bring present confusion vpon the orderly actions of that only wise agent who accomplisheth and ordereth all things in measure in number and waight Physiologus Very true as you say And therefore let those men beware who so constantly auouch the continuance of actuall possession now in these later dayes of the world But proceede in the rest Orthodoxus Againe this doctrine of ours deciphering so plainely vnto vs all those the deceiuable notions whatsoeuer which more peculiarlie appertaine to this new-found trade of Diuillitie with the seuerall points thereof it ministreth vnto vs a notable meditation or rather a watchfull consideration concerning the very proper foundation of all those the common receiued opinions fantasies dreames or idle conceites which runne all the world ouer about the Diuels their essential assuming and transforming of bodies their pretended apparitions in this or that essentiall forme their absolute power for creating of substances their essentiall possessions their supernaturall operations with sundrie other such idle conceites These their strange imaginations concerning Spirits and Diuels if we rightlie consider the same they arise not from any the infallible truths of the Lord reuealed vnto vs in the sacred scriptures for then we might and ought boldly to imbrace them for truths how absurd soeuer in humane reason but they do rather proceede from the only imagination of mans idle braine Who hauing their cogitations darkened through the ignorance that is naturallie in them cannot possiblie be made to discerne aright of any such intricate matters Yea and they spring partly also from the corrupt customes of the world For men receiuing such vntruthes from hand to hand as it were an inueterate lie by an auncient tradition do careleslie transferre the same from themselues to their owne posteritie and the ages to come And thus forsooth an old doating custome hauing careleslie begotten many grosse and erroneous opinions concerning Spirits and Diuels the world at this present is so vniuersally besotted bewitched and possessed with these palpable fooleries as they had rather to hold a manifest lye in their very right hand then be brought from their former most fond conceites and corrupt customes to an vndoubted knowledge of the truth it selfe For howsoeuer they may haplie pretend herein the holie Religion and feare of the Lord they feare him not in deede and in truth but do serue him only after the manner of former nations yea euen vnto this day they deale in these points according to the old accustomed manner and not after the ordinances customes lawes and commaundements which the Lord commaunded the children of Iacob They runne not for a true vnderstanding of these mysticall matters to the lawe and the testimonie neither speake they at all according to this truth but euery man speaketh herein according to the blind imagination of his owne â—oolish heart and after the corrupt customes of the world itselfe because there is in them no light of truth concerning these matters And thus much in effect for those speciall vses which haue a more speciall relation to any the seuerall points propounded Lycanthropus Very well Proceede now I pray you vnto those other vses which more specially concerne the parties themselues perusing those seuerall points Orthodoxus With very good will Wherin especially we haue to consider that seeing the matters we
of the world hath made it apparantly euident Lycanthropus This vse I assure you it serueth for singular purposes but proceede in the rest I beseech you Orthodoxus Moreouer it being by these our precedent discourses apparantly made knowen to all the world that the very Authours themselues of any such vnderhand practises haue in euery age been fearefully disgraced by the all seeing God sharply censured by godly Superiours greatly disliked of all the Religious perpetually impugned by the most iudiciall sort miserably scorned among the secure and godlesse Atheists yea and euen generally condemned of one and other this should sufficiently enforme the late spronge plotters and dayly deuisers of euery such new found senselesse Diuillitie concerning the vndoubted vanitie of euery such vaine inuention yea and it should make them withall to be mightily amazed and to tremble exceedingly at the vnsearchable iudgements of God concerning such subtill Impostors as seeke to seduce the world by any their vnder-hand shifts Who notwithstanding they be neuer so outwardly holy in those their plotted pretences yet when they shall once but dare to enterprise the vnorderly mannaging of any such slie and cunning conueyances without an authenticall warrant from the word of the Lord they doe thereby not onely procure the mightie Iehouah to bring their Legerdemaines to light but which more is they doe also to any one of sounde iudgement so euidently bewray their palpable follie and so apparantly lay open their owne weakenesse concerning the necessary support of their languishing cause as euen the very best affected towards their proceedings being especiallie iudiciall persons such also as are not too much ouercome and too preposterouslie carried with partiall conceites may easily be ledde to thinke that the very Authors themselues doe but struggle against their enlightened iudgements not vnlike vnto those who making shipwracke of conscience haue fearefully forsaken their former synceritie and soundnesse of faith And this in effect for those seuerall vses which more particularly respect the Authours themselues Pneumatomachus Very well But proceede now I pray you to those other vses which more specially concerne their vnderhand fauourits Orthodoxus With all my hart Wherein we haue first to consider that seeing howsoeuer the cunning Impostors of euery age haue like Iannes and Iambres euen openly encountered with the sound ministerie of Moses their deceiueable signes and lying wonders could neuer possiblie stand against the ineuitable force of the word but like to the AEgyptian sorcerers roddes haue been euermore deuoured by Aaron his rodde this therefore may fitly serue to admonish to the full our vnderhand fauourits of euery such newfound Diuillitie that now at length they beware how they doe hereafter receiue the holy word of the Lord in an onely respect of persons which is the ordinarie vsage of carnall professors Least as Simon Magus along time Samâ—riaâ—ith â—ith his seducing sorceries so their mindes alas should by some serpentine subtiltie be drawen at vnwares from that holy simplicitie which is in Christ. Yea and this should admonish them further that in these and all other like intricate causes they receiue not hand ouer head whatsoeuer is disorderly printed or vnderhand broached by those whom they partially fauour with a personall respect but that they would rather haue speedie recourse to the Law and the testimonies and search there with the good men of Berrea whether they doe proportionably speake or write according to the infallible truth thereof which they will vndoubtedly doe if there be in them any true light at all Because being otherwise either too partiall towards those whom they fondly affect or too preiudicate at least towards such as soundly impugne their proceedings they should shew themselues to haue no loue of the truth for the only truths sake and therefore no maruell though they be purposelie subiected to strong illusions and euen desperately giuen ouer to entertaine vntruthes falshoods and lies to their further peruerting and the fearefull hazarding of their hoped saluation Philologus The Lord graunt that this vse may become no lesse profitable then we see it expedient for euery condition of people but proceede in the rest Orthodoxus Moreouer sith the fearefull inconueniences ensuing such Legerdemaines are diuersly dangerous concerning the glorie of God and the good estate of his Church here on earth this therefore should throughly aduise the vnderhand fauourits of any such newfound Diuillitie to beware how either by company conference continuance or any their vnderhand maintenance they doe couertly vphold such cunning Impostors in any their counterfeite courses more especially concerning those idle conceites which haue so vndutifully and so disordredly been broached abroad by their Bookes Least they be otherwise very iustly adiudged to iustle against the glory of God to vndermine the supereminent dignitie of Iesus Christ to enlarge that temporarie power of the Diuell which Christ hath long since restrained for euer to weaken the certaintie of faith respecting especially those particular promises which the Almightie hath made concerning our full deliuerance in Iesus Christ yea and which more is to countenance a confused disorder against her Maiesties established Lawes and orders And this in effect for those seuerall vses which onely concerne the inconsiderate affectors of this newfound Diuillitie Lycanthropus Proceed now I beseech you to some such seuerall vses as may more especiallie respect the mislikers thereof Orthodoxus With very good will Wherein also wee haue to consider that al those the following vses they are here to be put downe in a double respect Namelie in an especiall respect of publike or priuate persons Lycanthropus A very plaine order and therefore I pray you proceede first to the timelie vnfolding of those sundrie vses which more especiallie concerne the publike persons Orthodoxus Content Wherein especiallie you haue to consider that the seuerall vses respecting publike persons they are such as haue a more speciall relation to their publike places and callings And these publike persons are also twofold namely eyther the ciuill magistrates or the ecclesiasticall ministers Philologus Vnfold those vses first I beseech you which more especiallie concerne the ciuill magistrates Orthodoxus With very good will Wherein we haue first to consider that seeing so many and such daungerous mischiefes doe daylie proceed from the vnderhand practises and legerdemaines of cunning impostors as in our seuerall discourses hath beene handled at large this therefore may fitlie serue for the further enlightning of all in authoritie concerning especiallie their orderlie esteemings and iudgings about any the like occurrents which may haplie hereafter be brought into their open consistories or before any their iudiciall thrones And this moreouer may giue them accordingly some further inckling how to proceed against the persons of any how holie soeuer in shew that shall once but dare to maintaine such idle conceits to the high dishonour of God and the daylie incumbrance of Christes Church Yea and which more is we doubt
and Diuels to the ende of the world Physiologus Master Orthodoxus our endeuour to do the man good I perceiue is vtterly lost And therfore I deeme it a very direct and conuenient course to extract a summarie of all our precedent discourses into seuerall Questions that so the matter it selfe being vniuersally looked into it may in some better order of conference be either soundly answered or syncerely yeelded vnto Orthodoxus I like very well of your motion and will therefore accordingly put downe the seuerall Questions in this following order 1 Whether now in this last age of the world there be essentiall possessions and dispossessions of Diuels 2 Whether sole Prayer and Fasting be an vndoubted true ordinance of Christ for the powerfull expelling of Diuels to the ende of the world 3 Whether if any be truely dispossessed by sole prayer and fasting that selfesame dispossession be not indeed a miraculous worke 4 Whether the working of miracles be yet still in vse in these daies of the Gospell Behold Exorcistes these Questions you see they fully containe the whole scope of our conference doe take them therefore to your fauourits that they and your selfe may more soundly consider vpon them Exorcistes Your questions sir they haue been viewed and reuiewed by a graue and reuerend Preacher who saith they be friuolous vnworthie the consideration of any and such as hee scorned to answere Orthodoxus If the man be so graue and so reuerend as you beare vs in hand we wonder he would euer affoord an answere so answerles For howsoeuer his Seraphicall skill had soared at too loftie a pitch to stoope to a flie yet surelie we expected better measure from the man in an onelie regard of his grauitie Howbeit consider by the way what a deadlie blow his answerelesse answere doth giue to whatsoeuer you hold Namelie that his and your owne opinion concerning these matters it is but a friuolous opinion vnworthie of consideration yea and such as anie graue or reuerend person would scorne to answere For doe not these our forenamed questions implicatiuely containe the very body it selfe with the marrow and bowels of that which your selfe doe hold and practise But what doe you hold indeed such phantasticall and idle conceits as are meerely friuolous vnworthie the consideration of any and such as a wise man would scorne to answere If wise men should scorne to answere such friuolous matters what wisedome I pray you in those that doe hold with tooth and nayle such friuolous fooleries as that for the patronizing thereof they will lie al their liues in prison Well we craue an answere we expect an answere and therefore doe vrge them I pray you to yeeld vs an answere eyther one way or other Exorcistes Sir I will take vp your questions and acquaint them with whatsoeuer you haue said concerning these matters Orthodoxus Doe so I pray you and in the meane time you shall not want the assistance of our earnest and hartiest prayers to God for his heauenlie illumination in these and all other things els which may anie waies make for the glorie of his name the good of his Church and the euerlasting consolation of your owne soules And so for this present wee take our leaues Lycanthropus Sir wee are all highlie beholding vnto you for this your Christian care and greatlie bound to pray and praise God for your happie continuance Orthodoxus Well the Lord make vs all wise to saluation and so guide vs with his gratious spirit as we may all speake one thing and that there be no dissentions among vs but that wee may be all knit soundlie together in one minde and one iudgement and mutuallie expect with patience the houre of our happie coronation in Iesus Christ. Physiologus So be it euen so Lord Iesu. Amen The end of this second Conference A TABLE FOR THE PRESENT FINDING FORTH of all the principall points that are handled in this booke THE FIRST DIALOGVE pag. 1. MAster Darel his bookes no better then factious Pamphlets pag. 2 The Epistles Dedicatorie to those his said Pamphlets are sharply and soundly censured 3 Master Darel is a man very peremptorie in deprauing publike authoritie 4.5 From what fountaine such vndutifull railings proceede 6 Master Darel his two tricks of legerdemaine 7 His Doctrinall treatise is but an hotch-potch of things 9 The method of that booke is truly laid downe 10 Whether Master Darel his pretended patients were essentiallie possest with a Diuell 12 The word possession is not to be found in all the originall 12.13 The pretended effects of those eight Demoniakes did not proceed from any supernaturall cause 13 The actions or passions of those his pretended Demoniakes they were not any supernaturall matters 14.15 The Diuell his entring in and going out is to be vnderstood metaphorically as appeares by sundrie places 15 Whether the Diuell be essentially inherent within the possessed or the possessed essentially inherent within the Diuell 17 To be in a Spirit what it importeth 19 To haue a Spirit of an vncleane Diuell what it is 20 Whether Satan be able to dispose of our members being but without vs. 21 It is an idle conceit to dreame that the Diuell hath an earnest desire to be essentially within a man 22 Whether the effects of precedent possessions be the certaine signes of subsequent possessions 23 How the Iewes did discerne of possessions then 24 No possessiōs in Israel till a little before the cōming of Christ. ibid. Whether Saul was essentially possessed of Satan ibid. The word possession is not to be found in the Bible literally and properly appropriated to Diuels 25 The word Daimonizetai is truly interpreted ibid. The word Bagnath rightly expounded ibid. The word Bagnath importeth only but mentall passions and no essentiall possessions 26 The opposition of Spirits ouerthroweth the supposed essentiall possession in Saul 27 The effects of Sauls passions they conclude no essentiall possessions at all 28 The manner of Sauls deliuerance argueth only but mentall passions ibid. Reasons against the supposed essentiall possessing of Saul 30 Whether the curing of the Serpentine stings by the brazen Serpent did typically foreshew Christ his powerfull expelling of Diuels from out of mens bodies 31 Reasons concludently prouing that there were no possessions in Israel before the comming of Christ. 32 Whether senselesnes be a true signe of essentiall possessions 34 Whether Sommers was senselesse in his supposed fits ibid. Whether foming at mouth be any true signe of possession 36 Whether Sommers was of an extraordinarie stature 37 Whether he was of a supernaturall strength 38 Whether he had a supernaturall knowledge 39 Whether he spake Latine supernaturally 40 The historie concerning the eight supposed Demoniakes is shrewdly tainted 41 The examination of Sommers his supposed signes of possession 43 Exorcistes his applying of those signes is censured 45 Whether Scripture signes be put downe as directions to determine of future possession 48 Whether essentiall possession be an ordinarie
disease and sole prayer and fasting an ordinarie medicine to cure the same 50 Whether the essentiall possession of Diuels be a written or an vnwritten iudgement of God 53 Whether as great cause that the Lord should inflict the iudgement of possession vpon men now as at any time heretofore 55 Whether it be iudgement inflicted vpon men for sinne 56 Whether the consent of Churches Fathers Trauellers Papists and vaunts of Iesuits may suffice to proue the pretended possession 59 Whether essentiall possessions be as ordinarie now as are other diseases and haue also as ordinarie a remedie to cure them 61 Whether the continuance of like sinnes argueth the continuance of like supposed essentiall possessions 65 Whether our corporall senses may truly discerne of the essentiall possessions of Diuels 69 Whether it bee reasonable to put men to proue the now being of essentiall possessions 70 Whether the pretended passions in the Chesshire Demoniake may concludently proue essentiall possessions 71 Whether in any of his fits he was vtterly senselesse 74 Whether wagging of his head be a supernaturall action of Satan 71 Whether this boy be raised vp of God to proue the truth of these supposed essentiall possessions 77 Whether the supposed dispossession of those eight Demoniakes doe proue essentiall possessions 78 THE SECOND DIALOGVE pag. 81. THe pretended signes of dispossession in our supposed Demoniakes they are not the same with Scripture signes 82 Exorcistes his owne experimentall signes they are no true signes of the pretended dispossessions 83 Whether vomitting be a true signe of dispossession 84 The pretended proper termes and speciall ends of dispossessions 85 Whether Satan his supposed desire of repossession doth argue an vndoubted true signe of dispossession 87 The casting out of Diuels by an absolute or committed authoritie 90 The instance from the Queene and L. Keeper is fitly retorted 91 Whether sole prayer and fasting be any secret ordinance perpetually established by Christ for the powerfull expelling of Diuels 94 Whether the seuenteenth of Matthew and ninth of Marke doe implie any such a supposed ordinance 94 Whether Christ in those places putteth downe a distinction of Diuels 96 The instance from Phlebotomie very fitly retorted 97 Whether there be Scripture or sound reason to appropriate the vse of that supposed meanes vnto the primitiue age 98 Whether all other besides Christ and his Apostles did driue forth Diuels by that only supposed ordinance 100 Whether it be requisite to know the kind of spirit or euer the Exorcist vndertake the intended busines 101 Whether sole prayer may be made a practicall experiment for the discouering of Diuels ibid. Why Master Darel in dealing with Sommers did dissent from his owne established Canons 102 Master Darel his owne practise and Canons are different things 103 Master Darel and an old Heremits practise compared together 105 Master Darel he plaies at fast or loose in his speech 107 Christ neither expreslie nor secretly establisheth sole prayer and fasting as an ordinarie meanes for the perpetuall expelling of Diuels 108 Master Darel traiterous Stapleton and Thyraeus the Iesuite doe all iumpe together in this conceit 109 Whether there be some kinde of Diuels with whom the Apostles their miraculous faith could not possiblie deale without prayer and fasting annexed thereto 110 Whether the Apostles praying at their working of miracles did more therein then they needed to doe 111 Master Darel is at oddes with himselfe about the exposition of the seuenteenth of Matthew 111.112 Whether the Apostles enioyed the miraculous faith without any meanes at all 113 Whether the spirit and word were not meanes to worke in euery of them the miraculous faith 114 Whether the Lord hath sanctified any ordinarie meanes to the timely encrease of extraordinarie graces 115 Pretended reasons to proue the needlesnesse of prayer in any the Apostles concerning especially their miraculous faith 116 Whether the Apostles had any reuealed word to warrant their praying for an encrease of the miraculous faith 117 Whether the Apostles sinned not in doing more therein then they needed to doe 118 Reasons why the seuenth of Matthew vers 21. may not saith Master Darel be appropriated vnto the Apostles 119 Whether Christ did not directly answere the Disciples demaund 122 Master Darel endeuouring with tooth and naile to vphold his pretended ordinance of prayer and fasting falles flat into Iudaisme 123 Whether after the feast of Pentecost the Apostles needed to pray for any encrease of their faith 125 Whether the Apostles receiued the fulnesse of the spirit at the feast of Pentecost 127 If the Apostles faith failed at any time in doctrine where is the efficacie of Christ his promise Ioh. 16.13 129 Whether Peters faith after Christ prayed Luk. 22.32 did euer faile in doctrine or iudgement 130 Wherein when and how the Apostles faith is said to faile 132 Whether the Apostles faith euer failed in the working of miracles 135 Whether Christ did purposely put downe a distinct order or degree among Diuels Matth. 17.21 137 Master Darel and Dionysius that Seraphicall Doctor doe iumpe together in the distinction of Angels and Diuels 138 Whether difference of order among men on earth implieth a distinction of order among Diuels in hell 139 Whether the supposed different degrees among Angels in heauen implieth a distinction of Diuels in hell 141 Whether the diuersitie of names doe conclude a diuersitie of orders among Angels 142 The names giuen to Angels respect only their nature or office 144 Why such seuerall names were giuen to Angels if they implie no seuerall orders 145 What is meant by the seuerall names of Diuels Eph. 6.12 147. Whether the word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Ephes. 6.12 doth import any different degrees among Diuels 148 Why the power of Diuels is put downe sometimes singularly and sometimes plurally 149 Further distinction then that of Michael and his Angels and of the Diuell his Angels cannot be found in heauen or hell 151 Whether Diuels are distinguished in regard of their qualities 152 Whether the text Mat. 17.21 doth implicatiuely containe Master Darel his foure intimations 154 The impieties absurdities and dangers which doe necessarily succeede Master Darel his sense of Matth. 17.21 156 Whether Master Darel his cariage concludes not his great shame concerning his cause 158 Master Darel his directions concerning the vsage first of sole prayer alone and then of prayer and fasting together 159 Whether sole prayer and fasting did get Abimelechs women with child and ouerthrow the Beniamites 160 Prayer and fasting they are not the sole meanes it selfe but a spirituall exercise which sanctifieth some other meanes for the powerfull expelling of Diuels 161 Whether the curing of naturall diseases by meere naturall medicines doth proue the supernaturall expelling of Diuels by prayer and fasting as by the only ordinarie meanes thereto 162 Whether sole prayer and fasting bee an vnwritten ordinance of Christ for the expelling of Diuels 163 Master Darel and Bellarmine iumping pat in this point they ioyntly receiue