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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A20986	The principall points of the faith of the Catholike Church Defended against a writing sent to the King by the 4. ministers of Charenton. By the most eminent. Armand Ihon de Plessis Cardinal Duke de Richelieu. Englished by M.C. confessor to the English nuns at Paris.; Principaux poincts de la foi de l'Eglise Catholique. English	Richelieu, Armand Jean de plessis, duc de, 1585-1642.; Carre, Thomas, 1599-1674, attributed name.	1635 (1635)	STC 7361; ESTC S121027	167,644	376

de contribuer vos soins pour appaiser les troubles de la Chrestienté F. Leon de Paris Gardien of the Capueins of the Conuent of S. Honorie Fr. Archangell of Paris Gardien of the Capucins of S. Iameses Fr. Baltazar Langlois Prior of the Dominicains of S. Iames street F. Renault de Vault Prior of the great Conuent of the Carmelites of Paris Doctor of Diuinitie où nous prenons vn interest bien plus sensible qu'en ce qui nous pourroit concerner THE PRINCIPALL POINTS OF THE FAITH OF THE Catholike Church DEFENDED AGAINST the vvriting directed to the king by the foure Ministers of Charenton THE FIRST CHAP. MINISTERS SOVERAIGNE LORD The knovvledge which we haue of the mildnes of your naturall disposition makes vs hope that you will heare vs in our iuste complaintes and that to giue iudgement in an importāt cause you will not be satisfyed with hearing the accusation Againe the greatnes of your courage and the vigour of your witt which out run tyme and outstripe your age and wherof God hath alreadie made vse to restore peace to France fills your subiects vvith hope to see Peace and Pietie florish and Iustice maintayned vnder your raigne ANSWERE ONe may see that by experience in the first lines of your writing which is frequently noted by aunciēt historians Arrius in ep ad Constant apud Sozom. lib. 2. c. 26. Nestoriani tom 3. Conc. Ephes c. 18. that it is an ordinarie thing with such as erre in Faith to charme the eares of Princes with specious words that they may with more facilitie make glide into their hearts and imprint therin the opinions which they professe You extolle his Majesté thinking vnder the sweetnes of a truth to make him take downe that which is depraued in your beleifs and to couch vnder faire appearances the serpent which doth distroy soules as that Aegiptian hidde the aspe vnder figues which slew her The qualities which you attribute vnto the kinge doe truely appertayne vnto him nor haue I indeede any thinge to doe vpon this subiect but to approue the prayses wihich you asscribe vnto him and withall to adde to them euery one knowing not onely the strength of his witt and the fulnes of his courage but further the soliditie of his iudgement the inbred goodnes of his nature his pietie towards his people and zeale in point of Religion Yet in truth one that would be rigorous considering that a Respons ad epist Luth. Henry the eight king of England vvhom you so highy esteeme cōtemnes the prayses which Luther whom he condemnes of heresie ascribes vnto him might propose vnto his Maiestie to impose silence vpon you or at least to stop his eares against that which euen with truth you speake to his aduantage But I will nether indeuour the one nor the other the vehement desire and hope I conceaue of your conuersion There is nothing sayde in this Chapter of the Ministers inuiting the king to iudge of their cause ansvver being made thereto in 3. Chap. oblige me to treate you more mildly I will content my selfe to discouer vnto him your craft which consists in thinking to please him in euerie thing to thend you may please him in this point and vpon this I dwell praysing you for the prayses you giue him according to your dutie each subiect being obliged to speake and thinke well of his king CHAP. II. MINISTERS You haue SOVERAIGNE in your kingdome many thousands making profession of the old Christian Religion and such as Iesus-Christ did institute it and the Apostles did publish and put it downe in writing who for this cause haue suffered horrible persequutions which yet could neuer impeach their continuall loyaltie to their soueraigne Prince yea when the necessitie of the kingdome called they ran to the defence euen of those kinges who had persequuted them They DREAD SOVERAIGNE serued Henry the great your Father of most glorious memorie for a Refuge dureing his afflictions and vnder his conduct and for his defence gaue battaills and at the perill of their liues and fortunes brought hym by the point of the sword to his kingdome maugre the enemyes of the state Of which labours damages dangers others then they reape the revvard for the fruite which we reape therby is that we are constrayned to goe serue God far from Townes that the entrie to any dignities is become to vs for the most part impossibile or at least full of difficultie That our new borne children who are carried a far of to Baptisme are exposed to the rigour of the weather whence many die that we are hindred to instruct them yet that which doth most aggreeue vs is that our Religion is diffamed and denigrated with calumnies in your Maiesties presence while yet we are not permitted to purge our selues of those imputations in the presence of the said Maiestie ANSWERE IT is the custome of those that are tainted with errour to brage most of that which they least haue and to boast of it in aduātagious words which are ordinarie with them as S. a S. Hieron Osea cap. 10. Spumantibus verbis rumēt Hierome doth remarke This truely is your proceeding while you somme vp by millions your followers in France though now they be reduced to a far lesse number Imitating herin the Donatists who though but few in number brought downe to a part of Affrike and that a litle one too did yet make brages of the multitude of their followers You make vse of a deceipt yet easie to be discouered you see that the scripture and all the b Hieron tentra Lucif Fathers make the Catholike Church the lawfull Spouse of Iesus-Christ more fruitefull then any adulterer wherevpon you attribute to your selues many brethren but in vaine it being cleare euen vnto the blind that the number of yours are no more considerable in respect of the kings other subiects then all those that are of your professiō in the whole world being compared to those who in all christendome liue vnder the lawes of the Romane Church That this is so it is easie for me to proue by the same argument which a S. Aug. cap. 3. de vnitat● Eccles lib. de Past c. 18. S. Augustine makes vse of against the Donatists for the vniuersall Church making onely appeare that your beleife hath no place in diuers townes and places of this kingdome where the Catholike Church is and that yet the Catholike Church is found in euery place where profession is made of your religion so it is not strange that when b Caluin 2. Colos 2. v. 19. videmus vt modo procer sit ac amplun Papae regnused prodigios magnitudine vrgeat Et in Praef. lib. de libero arbit Nos exiguun sumus home num manus illi Papistae ingentem faciunt exerc● tum some of your owne men doe compare the number of their followers with the number of Catholikes they confesse that theirs is

and withall that he sustayned that the body of Iesus Christ would haue bene conceaued to haue bene an onely Phantome if it had not bene berd and borne after the manner of other children which belonges not to the Virginitie of the mynde but that of body onely Therfor my assertion stands firme that your beleife in this point was condemned in the primitiue Church in the person of Iouinian 4. Poini You hold and teach that the iust onely are in the true Church which is an errour condemned in the Donatists more then 1300. yeares agoe That you are of this opinion a 4. Instit c. 1 §. 7. In Ecclesiam quae reuera est coram Deo nulli recipiuntur nisi qui adoptionit gratia filij Dei sunt Caluine doth make manifest in these tearmes None is receaued into the Church which is truly the Church before the face of God but he onely who is the sonne of God by the grace of adoption And b Art 27. your confession doth beare the same saying we affirme then that the true Church following the word of God is the companie of the faithfull who vnanimously follow the same word and the pure religion depending therupon and who profit in the same all the dayes of their life That this opinion was condemned for heresie in the Donatists S. Aug. makes euident by the passages which he alleageth impugned by him and other Catholikes in the conferences had with them c In collat 3. die c 8. Zizania inter triticum non Ecclesia sed in trundo permixta dixerunt E●t c. 10. Non bene intelligi aiūt Ecclesiaem inquua simul triticū zizania iussa sunt crescere They say that the dernel is mixed amongst the wheate not in the Church but in the world they say that one can not well conceaue à Church in which wheate and cocle growe both together You will say here as in the formar points that there is a faire difference betweene the errour condemned in the Donatists and your beleife because they deneyed that the wicked were in the visible Church which yet you grant deneying onely that they are in the true Church To which I answere that though it were à visible Church from which the Donatists did exclud the wicked yet puts that no impediment why there may not be à cōformitie betwixt them and you in the point I speake of to witt in that both exclude the wicked from the true Church True it is there is this difference betweene them and you that they accnowledge the visible Church to be the true Church which you asscribe onely to the inuisible Church whence it is manifest that the difference betwixt you and the Donatists is whether the true Church be visible or inuisible not whether the wicked are in it or no whence you both equally exclude them Thence it is manifest that hauing shewen that that opinion was cōdemned of heresie in the person of the Donatists I haue shewen by consequence that it ought also to be condemned in you That it was from the true Church from which the Donatists excluded the wicked S. Aug. makes it cleare a lib. 2. cont Caudent c. 2. in vera germanaque Catholica Ecclesia saying in expresse words that they deneyed that the wicked were in the true and lawfull Catholike Church and againe b lib. de vnit Eccles c. 2. in corpore Christi cuius Christus est Saluator that they were in the body of Iesus-Chrst wherof Iesus-Christ is the Sauiour Which are a Whitak controu 2. q. 1. c. 7. In Eccles Cath. quae est corpus Cristi Item possunt esse in visibili Ecclesia reprobi sed non in Ecclesia Catholica the verie words in which you expresse the true Church And therfor it is à thinge not to be called in doubt that this article of your faith was condemned in the primitiue Church in the person of the Donatists You will say perhappes that wellingly you will ioyne hands if we can conuince you that these 4. points of your faith were condemned by any generall Councell in the primitiue Church but that the authoritie of one or two Fathers is of smale consideration and consequently that you suffer no preiudice for being condemned by them To this I answere that it is not alwayes necessarie to interpose the authoritie of à generall councell for the condemnation of an heresie which is euident by this that when the Pelagians would not esteeme themselues condemned because it was not performed in à generall councell S. Augustine laughes at such friuolous euasions As though saith b Aug. l. 4. cone duas Epist Pelagii c. vltimo Quasi nulla haeresis aliquando esset nisi Synod● congregatione damnata sit cū potius rarissime inueniantur propter quas damnandas nesessitas talis extiterit mulioque sint incomparabiliter plures quae vbi extiterunt illic improbari damnarique meruerunt atque inde per caeteras terras deuitandae in nolescere potuerunt he neuer heresie had bene cōdemned but by à Synode seeing verie few such haue bene found as that it was requisite for the condemnation of them to assemble à Councell and that there were incomparably more in number which deserued to be reproued and condemned in the same place wher they were hatched whence they might be diuulged through out all the world to the end they might be shunned Secondly I say that I doe not produce the authoritie of one or two Fathers against our aduersaries as reputing their authoritie sufficient to condemne their opinion but as esteeming it sufficient to declare what was the beleife of the Church in their tyme wherby we iustly iudge such condemned of heresie as by their relation appeare so to be Being à thing most reasonable and agreeable euen to iudgements of least capacitie rather to giue credit to those auncients in the relation of things which they affirme to haue past in their tymes then to you who fall far short of them especially seeing S. Augustine teacheth us Lib. cont Iul. c. 10. Quod inuenerunt in Eccles tenuerunt quod didiscerunt docuerunt quod à Patribus acceptrunt hoc filijs tradiderunt that they held what they found in the Church that they taught what they had learnt and left to their children what they had receaued from their Fathers Finding this answere no armour of proofe you will flie for refuge to another saying that S. August S. Epiphanius Theodoret and others who had made à catalogue of heresies did not propose vnto themselues to put onely into it heresies properly speaking whence it appeares that to shew that an opinion is related therin is not à sufficient proofe that it was condemned as hereticall To which I replie 1. that this answere is without grownd or proofe 2. that the Fathers ayme and end in reducing into à certaine order and framing as it were à list of all the heresies doe