Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	court_n	judge_n	law_n	3,614	5	4.9602	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A83414	A remonstrance or The declaration of the Lords and Commons, now assembled in Parliament, 26. of May. 1642. In answer to a declaration under His Majesties name concerning the businesse of Hull, sent in a message to both houses the 21. of May, 1642 ...	England and Wales. Parliament.; Elsynge, Henry, 1598-1654.	1642 (1642)	Wing E2227B; ESTC R222786	18,138	16

or could ever harbour a thought that it might be effected were there ever such practises to poyson the people with an ill apprehension of the Parliament were there ever such imputations and scandals laid upon the proceedings of both Houses were there ever so many and so great breaches of priviledge of Parliament were there ever so many and so desperate designes of force and violence against the Parliament and the Members thereof If we have done more than ever our Ancestors have done we have suffered more than ever they have suffered and yet in point of modesty and duty we shall not yeeld to the best of former times and we shall put this in issue whether the highest and most unwarrantable presidents of any of His Maiesties Predecessors do not fall short and much below what hath been done unto us this Parliament And on the otherside whether if we should make the highest Presidents of other Parliaments our patterns there would be cause to complain of want of modestie and duty in us when we have not so much as suffered such things to enter into our thoughts which all the world knows they have put in act Another Charge which is laid very high upon us and which were indeed a very great Crime if we were found guilty thereof is that by avowing this act of Sir John Hotham we do in Consequence confound and destroy the title and Interest of all his Majesties good subjects to their lands and goods and that upon this ground That his Maiestie hath the same title to his town of Hull which any of his subiects have to their houses or lands and the same to his Magazin and Munition there that any man hath to his money plate or Jewels and therefore that they ought not to have been disposed of without or against his consent no more then the house land money plate or Jewels of any subiect ought to be without or against his will Here that is laid down for a Principle which would indeed pull up the very foundation of the liberty property and interest of every subiect in particular and of all the subiects in generall if we should admit it for a truth that his Maiestie hath the same right and Title to his Towns and to his Magazin bought with the publique moneys as we conceive that at Hull to have been that every particular man hath to his house lands and goods for his Maiesties towns are no more his own then his Kingdom is his own and his Kingdom is no more his own then his people are his own and if the King had a propriety in all his Towns what would become of the subiects propriety in their houses therein and if he had a propriety in his Kingdom what would become of the subiects propriety in their lands throughout the Kingdom or of their liberties if his Maiestie had the same right in their persons that every subiect hath in their lands or goods and what should become of the subiects interest in the Towns and Forts of the Kingdom and in the Kingdom it self if his Maiestie might sell or give them away or dispose of them at his pleasure as a particular man may do with his Lands and with his Goods This erronious maxime being infused into Princes that their Kingdoms are their own and that they may do with them what they will as if their Kingdoms were for them and not they for their Kingdoms is the Root of all the subiects misery and of the Invading of their iust Rights and Liberties whereas indeed they are onely intrusted with their Kingdoms and with their Towns and with their people and with the publique Treasure of the Common-wealth and whatsoever is bought therewith and by the known Law of this Kingdom the very Jewels of the Crown are not the Kings proper goods but are onely intrusted to him for the use and ornament thereof As the Towns Forts Treasure Magazin Offices and people of the Kingdom and the whole Kingdom it self is intrusted unto him for the good and safety and best advantage thereof And as this trust is for the use of the Kingdom so ought it to be managed by the advice of the Houses of Parliament whom the Kingdom hath trusted for that purpose it being their duty to see it be discharged according to the condition and true intent thereof and as much as in them lies by all possible means to prevent the contrary Which if it hath been their chief care and onely ayme in the disposing of the town and Magazin of Hull in such manner as they have done they hope it will appear clearly to all the world that they have discharged their own trust and not invaded that of His Maiesties much lesse his property which in this case they could not do But admitting His Majestie had indeed had a propertie in the Towne and Magazine of Hull who doubts but that a Parliament may dispose of any thing wherein His Majestie or any Subjects hath a right in such a way as that the Kingdome may not be exposed to hazard or danger thereby which is our case in the disposing of the Towne and Magazine of Hull And whereas His Majestie doth allow this and a greater power to a Parliament but in that sense onely as he himselfe is a part thereof wee appeale to every mans Conscience that hath observed our proceedings whether we disjoyned His Majestie from His Parliament who have in all humble wayes sought his Concurrence with us as in this particular about Hull and for the removeall of the Magazine there so also in all other things or whether these evill Counsels about him have not separated him from his Parliament not only in distance of place but also in the discharge of this joynt trust with them for the peace and safetie of the Kingdome in this and some other particulars We have given no occasion to His Majestie to declare His resolution with so much earnestnesse that he will not suffer either or both Houses by their Votes without or against his consent to enjoyne any thing that is forbidden by the Law or to forbid any thing that is enjoyned by the Law For our Votes have done no such thing and as we shall be very tender of the Law which we acknowledge to be the safeguard and custody of all publike and private Interesses so we shall never allow a few private Persons about His Majestie nor His Majestie Himselfe in His own Person out of his Courts to be Judge of the Law and that contrary to the judgement of he highest Court of Judicature In like manner that His Majestie hath not refused to consent to any thing that might be for the peace and happines of the Kingdom we cannot admit it in any other sense but as His Majestie taketh the measure of what will be for the peace and happinesse of the Kingdome from some few ill affected persons about him contrary to the advice and judgement of His great Councell

of Parliament And because the Advice of both Houses of Parliament hath through the suggestions of evill Councellors been so much undervalued of late and so absolutely rejected and refused wee hold it fit to declare unto the Kingdome whose honour and interest is so much concerned in it what is the priviledge of the great Councell of Parliament herein and what is the Obligation that lyeth upon the Kings of this Realme to passe such Bills as are offered unto them by both Houses of Parliament in the name and for the good of the whole Kingdome whereunto they stand ingaged both in conscience and in justice to give their royall assent In conscience in respect of the Oath that is or ought to be taken by the KINGS of this Realme at their CORONATION as well to confirme by their Royall assent such good Lawes as their people shall choose and to remedy by Law such inconveniences as the Kingdom may suffer as to keepe and protect the Lawes already in being as may appeare both by the forme of the Oath upon Record and in bookes of good Authoritie and by the Statute of the 25. Edw. 3. entituled the Statute of Provisors of Benefices the forme of which Oath and the cause of that Statute concerning are as followeth Rot. Parl. 1. H. 4. N. 17. 2. Forma juramenti soliti consueti praestari per Reges Angliae in eorum Coronatione Servabis Ecclesiae Dei Cleroque populo pacem ex integro concordiam in Deo secundum vires tuas Respondebit Servabo Facies fieri in omnibus judicis tuis equam rectam justitiam discretionem in misericordid lenitate secundum vires tuas Respondebit Faciam Concedis justas leges consuetudines esse tenendas permittis per te eas esse protegendas ad honorem Dei corroborandas quas vulgus elegerit secundum vires tuas Respondebit Concedo permitto Adijcianturque praedictis interrogationibus quae justa fuerint pernunciat isque omnibus confirmet Rex se omnia servaturum sacramento super altare praestito coram cunctis A Clause in the Preamble of a Statute made 25. Edw. 3. Entituled the Statute of Provisors of Benefices Whereupon the said Commons have prayed our said Lord the King that sith the right of the Crowne of England and the Law of the said Realme is such that upon the mischiefes and damages which happen to his Realme he ought and is bound by hid Oath with the accord of his people in his Parliament thereof to make remedy and Law and in removing the mischiefes and damages which thereof ensue that it may please him thereupon to ordaine remedy Our Lord the King seeing the mischiefes and damages before-mentioned and having regard to the said Statute made in the time of his said Grandfather and to the causes contained in the same which Statute holdeth alwayes his force and was never defeated repealed nor adnulled in any point and by so much he is bounden by his Oath to cause the same to be kept as the Law of his Realme though that by sufferance and negligence it hath been sithence attempted to the contrary also having regard to the grievous complaints made to him by his people in divers His Parliaments holden heretofore willing to ordaine remedy for the great damages and mischiefes which have hapned and daily do happen to the Church of England by the said cause Here the Lords and Commons claime it directly as the right of the Crowne of England and of the Law of the Land and that the King is bound by his Oath with the accord of his people in Parliament to make remedy and Law upon the mischiefes and damages which happen to this Realme and the King doth not deny it although he take occasion from a Statute formerly made by his Grandfather which was layd as part of the grounds of this Petition to fixe his Answer upon another branch of his Oath and prefermits that which is claimed by the Lords and Commons which he would not have done if it might have been excepted against In justice they are obliged thereunto in respect of the trust reposed in them which is aswell to preserve the Kingdome by the making of new Lawes where there shall be need as by the observing of Lawes already made A Kingdome being many times as much exposed to ruine for the want of a new Law as by the violation of those that are in being and this is so cleare a right that no doubt His Majesty will acknowledge it to be as due unto his people as his protection but how farre forth he is obliged to follow the judgement of his Parliament therein that is the question And certainly besides the words in the Kings Oath referring unto such Lawes as the people shall chuse as in such things which concerne the Publique Weale and good of the Kingdome they are the most proper Judges who are sent from the whole Kingdome for that very purpose so wee doe not finde that since Lawes have passed by way of Bills which are read thrice in both Houses and committed and every part and circumstance of them fully weighed and debated upon the commitment and afterwards passed in both Houses that ever the Kings of this Realme did deny them otherwise then is expressed in that usuall Answer Le Roy savisera which signifies rather a suspension then a refusall of the Royall Assent and in those other Lawes which are framed by way of Petitions of Right the Houses of Parliament have taken themselves to be so farre Judges of the Rights claimed by them that when the Kings answer hath not in every point been fully according to their desire they have still insisted upon their claime and never rested satisfied till such time as they had an answer according to their owne demand as was done in the late Petition of Right and in former times upon the like occasion and if the Parliament be Judge between the King and his people in the Question of Right as by the manner of the claime in Petitions of Right and by Judgements in Parliament in Cases of illegall Impositions and Taxes and the like it appeareth to be why should they not be so also in the question of the common good and necessitie of the Kingdome wherein the Kingdome hath as cleere a right also to have the benefit and remedy of Law as in any thing whatsoever and yet we doe not deny but in private Bills and also in publick Acts of Grace as Pardons and the like grants of favour His Majestie may have a greater latitude of granting or denying as he shall thinke fit All this considered we cannot but wonder that the Conniver of this Message should conceive the people of this Land to be so voyd of common sense as to enter into so deep a mistrust of those that they have and his Majesty ought to repose so great a trust in as to despaire of any securitie in their private

Estates by Discents Purchases Assurances or Conveyances unlesse His Majesty should by his Vote prevent the prejudice they might receive therein by the Votes of both Houses of Parliament As if they who are especially chosen and entrusted for that purpose and who themselves must needs have so great a share in all grievances of the Subject had wholly cast off all care of the Subjects good and His Majesty had solely taken it up And as if it could be imagined that they should by their Votes overthrow the rights of Discents Purchases or of any Conveyance or Assurance in whose judgement the whole Kingdome hath placed all their particular Interesses if any of them should be called in question in any of those Cases that as knowing not where to place them with greater securitie without any appeale from them to any other person or Court whatsoever But indeed we are very much to seeke how the case of Hull should concerne Discents and Purchases or Conveyances and Assurances unlesse it be in procuring more securitie to men in their private Interesses by the preservation of the whole from confusion and destruction and much lesse doe wee understand how the Soveraigne Power was resisted and despised therein Certainly no command from His Majestie and his high Court of Parliament where the Soveraigne Power resides was disobeyed by Sir John Hotham nor yet was his Maiesties Authoritie derived out of any other Court nor by any legall Commission or by any other way wherein the Law hath appointed His Majesties commands to be derived to his Subjects and of what validitie his verball Commands are without any such stamp of his Authoritie upon them and against the order of both Houses of Parliament whether the not submitting thereunto be a resisting and despising of the Soveraigne Authoritie we leave it to all men to judge that doe at all understand the government of this Kingdome We acknowledge that His Majesty hath made many expressions of his zeale and intentions against the desperate designes of Papists but yet it is also as true that the Counsells which have prevailed of late with him have been little sutable to those expressions and intentions For what doth more advance the open and bloudy designe of the Papists in Ireland whereon the secret plots of the Papists here do in likelihood depend then His Majesties absenting himselfe in that manner that he doth from his Parliament and setting forth such sharpe Invectives against them notwithstanding all the humble Petitions and other meanes which his Parliament hath addressed unto him for his returne for his satisfaction concerning their proceedings And what was more likely to give a rise to the designes of Papists whereof there are so many in the North neare to the Towne of Hull and of other malignant ill-affected persōs which are ready to joyn with them or to the attempts of forrainers from abroad than the continuing of that great Magazin at Hull at this time and contrary to the desire and advice of both Houses of Parliament So that we have too much cause to beleeve that the Papists have still some way and means whereby they have influence upon his Majesties Councells for their owne advantage For the Malignant party his Majesty needeth not a definitiō of the Law nor yet a more full Character of them from both Houses of Parliament for to finde them out if he will please only to apply the Character that himselfe hath made of them to those unto whom it doth properly truly belong who are so much disaffected to the peace of the Kingdom as they that endeavour to disaffect his Majesty from the Houses of Parliament and perswade him to be at such a distance from them both in place and affection Who are more dis-affected to the government of the Kingdome than such as lead his Majesty away from harkning to his Parliament which by the constitution of this Kingdom is his greatest best Councell perswade him to follow the malicious councels of some private men in opposing and contradicting the wholsome advices just proceedings of that his most faithfull Councell and highest Court Who are they that not onely neglect and despise but labour to undermine the Law under colour of maintaining of it But they that indevour to destroy the fountaine and Conservatory of the law which is the Parliament and who are they that set up other Rules for themselves to walke by then such as are according to Law but they that will make other Iudges of the Law then the Law hath appoynted and so dispence with their obedience to that which the Law calleth Authoritie and to their determinations and resolutions to whom the Iudgement doth appertaine by Law For when private persons shall make the Law o be their Rule according to their own understandings contrary to the judgement of those that are competent Iudges thereof they set up unto themselves other Rules than the Law doth acknowledge Who these persons are none knoweth better than his Majestie himselfe And if he will please to take all possible caution of them as destructive to the Common wealth and himselfe and would remove them from about him it would be the most effectuall meanes to compose all the destractions and to cure the distempers of this Kingdome For the Lord Digby his le ter we did not make mention of it as a ground to hinder his Majestie from visiting his own fort but we appeale to the judgement of any indifferent man that shall read that Letter and compare with the posture that his Majestie then did and still doth stand in towards the Parliament and with the circumstances of that late action of his Majestie in going to Hull whether the Advisor of that Iourney intended only a visit of that fort and Magazin as to the wayes and overtures accommodation and the meffage of the 20 of Ianuary last so often pressed but still in vaine as is alledged Our Answere is that although so often as the 20. of Ianuarie hath been pressed so often have our priviledges been cleerly infringed that a way and method of proceeding should be prescribed unto us as well for the setling of his Majesties Revene as for the presedting of our desires a thing which in former Parliaments hath alwayes been excepted against as a breach of priviledge pet in respect of the matter contained in that message and out of our earnest desire to beget a good understanding between his Majestie and us we swallowed down all matters of Circumstance and had ere this time presented the chief of our desires to his Majestie had we not been inrerrupted with continuall Denyalls even of those things that were necessary for our present security and subsistance and had not those denyalls been followed with perpetuall Invectives against us and our proceedings and had not those invectives been beaped upon us so thick one after another who were already in a manner wholly taken up with the pressing affaires of this Kingdome

Votes to beleeve the contrary Although the Votes of the Lords and Commons in Parliament being the great Councell of the Kingdom are the reason of the King and of the Kingdom yet these Votes do not want cleer and apparent reason for them For if the solemn proclaiming a man a Traytor signifie any thing it puts a man and all those that any way aid assist or adhere unto him into the same condition of Traitours and draws upon him all the consequences of Treason and if his may be done by Law without due processe of Law the Subject hath a very poor defence of the Law and a very small if any portion of liberty thereby and it is as little satisfaction to a man that shall be exposed to such penalties by that declaration of him to be a Traitour to say hee shall have a Legall triall afterwards as it is to condemn a man first and try him afterwards And if there be a necessity for any such proclaiming a man a Traitour without due processe of Law yet there was none in this case For his Majesty might have as well expected the Justice of the Parliament which was the right way as he had leisure to send to them to demand Justice against Sir John Hotham And the breach of Priviledge of Parliament in this case as the subversion of the Subjects common right For though the Privledges of Parliament do extend to those cases mentioned in the Declaration of Treason Felony and breach of the peace so as to exempt the Members of Parliament from punishment nor from all manner of Processe and triall as it doth in other cases yet it doth priviledge them in the way and method of their triall and punishment and that the Parliament should have the cause first brought before them that they may judge of the fact and of the grounds of the accusation and how far forth the manner of their tryall may concern or not concern the Priviledge of Parliament otherwise it would be in the power not onely of his Majesty but of every private man under pretensions of Treasons or those other crimes to take any man from his service in Parliament and so as many one after another as he pleaseth and consequently to make a Parliament what he will when he will which would be a breach of so essentiall a priviledge of Parliament as that the very being thereof depends upon it and therfore we no wayes doubt but every one that hath taken the Protestation will according to his solemn Vow and Oath defend it with his life and fortunes Neither doth the sitting of a Parliament suspend all or any Law in maintaining that Law which upholds the Priviledge of Parliament which upholds the Parliament which upholds the Kingdom And we are so far from beleeving that his Majesty is the onely person against whom Treason cannot be committed that is some sence wee acknowledge hee is the onely person against whom it can be committed that is as hee is King and that Treason which is against the Kingdom is more against the King then that which is against his Person because he is King For that very Treason is not Treason as it is against him as a man but as a man that is a King and as he hath relation to the Kingdom and stands as a person intrusted with the Kingdom and discharging that trust Now the case is truly stated and all the world may judge where the fault is although we must avow that there can be no competent judge of this or any the like case but a Parliament and we are as confident that His Majestie shall never have cause to resort to any other Court or Course for the vindication of his just Priviledges and for the recovery and maintenance of his known and undoubted Rights if there should be any Invasion or violation thereof than to his high Court of Parliament And in case wicked Counsellours about him shall drive him into any other Course from and against his Parliament whatever are his Majesties expressions and intentions wee shall appeal to all mens consciences and desire that they would lay their hands upon their hearts and think with themselves whether such persons as have of late and still do resort to his Majesty and have his care and favour most either have been or are more zealous Assertors of the true Protestant Profession although we believe they are more earnest in the Protestant Profession then in the Protestant Religion or of the Law of the Land the Liberty of the Subject and the Priviledges of the Parliament then the Members of both Houses of Parliament who are insinuated to bee the Desertors if not the Destroyers of them And whether if they could master this Parliament by force they would not hold up the same power to deprive us of all Parliaments which are the ground and p●llar of the Subjects Liberty and that which maketh England onely a free Monarchy For the Order of Assistance to the Committees of both Houses as they have no directions or instructions but what have the Law for their Limits and the safety of the Land for their ends so we doubt not but all persons mentioned in that Order and all his Majesties good Subjects will yeeld obedience to His Majesties Authority signified therein by both Houses of Parliament And that all men may the better know their duty in matters of that nature and upon how su●e a ground they go that follow the judgement of Parliament for their guide we wish them judiciously to consider the true meaning and ground of that Statute made in the eleventh yeare of Hen. 7. cap. 1. which is printed at large in the end of His Majesties Message of the fourth of May. This St●tute provides that none that shall attend upon the King and do him true Service shall be attainted or forfeit any thing What was the scope of this Statute To provide that men should nor suffer as Traytors for serving the King in His Warres according to the duty of their Allegeance If this had been all it had beene a very needlesse and ●idicalous Statute Was it then intended as they may seeme to take the meaning of it to be that caused it to be printed after his Majesties Message that they should be free from all crime and penalty that should follow the King and serve him in Warre in any case whatsoever whether it were for or against the Kingdome and the Laws thereof That cannot bee for that could not stand with the duty of their Allegeance which in the beginning of this Statute is expressed to bee to serve the King for the time being in his Warres for the defence of Him and the Land and therefore if it be against the Land as it cannot be understood to be otherwise if it be against the Parliament the representative body of the Kingdom It is a declining from the duty of Allegeance which this Statute supposeth may be done though men should follow the Kings Person in the Warre Otherwise there had been no need of such a Proviso in the end of this Statute that none should take benefit thereby that should decline from the Allegeance That therefore which is the Principle Verb in this Statute is the serving of the King for the time being which cannot be meant of a Perkin Warbeck or any that should call himselfe King but such a one as what ever Title might prove either in himselfe or in his Ancestors should be recieved and acknowledged for such by the Kingdome the consent whereof cannot be discerned but by Parliament the Act whereof is the Act of the whole Kingdome by the personall suffrage of the Peeres and the delegate consent of all the Commons in England And Aen. 7. a wise King considering that what was the Case of R. 3. his Predecessor might by chance of battel be his owne and that he might at once by such a Statute as this satisfie such as had served his Ptodecessor in his Warrs and also secure those that should serve him who might otherwise feare him in his Warrs lest by chance of Battell that might happen to him also if a Duke of Yorke had set up a Title against him which had happened to his Prodecessor he procured this Statute to be made that no man should be accounted a Traytor for serving the King in his Warrs for the time being that is which was for the present allowed and recieved by the Parliament in behalfe of the Kingdome and as it is truly suggested in the Preamble of the Statute It is not agreable to reason or conscience that it should be otherwise seeing men should be put upon an impossibility of knowing their duty if the judgement of the Highest Court should not be a Rule and guide to them and if the judgement thereof should be followed where the question is who is King Much more what is the best service of the King and Kingdome and therefore those that shall guide themselves by the judgement of Parliament ought what ever happen to be secure and free from all account and penalties upon the grounds and equitie of this very Statute We shall conclude that although those wicked Councellors about his Majestie have presumed under his Majesties name to put that dishonour and affront upon both Houses of Parliament as to make them the countenancers of Treason enough to have dissolved all the bands sinews of confidence between his Majestie and his Parliament of whom the Maxime of the law is That a dishonourable thing ought not to be imagined of them yet we doubt not but it shall in the end appeare to all the world that our indeavours have been most hearty and sincere for the maintainance of the true Protestant Religion the Kings just Prerogatives the Lawes and Liberties of the Land and the Priviledges of Parliament in which endeavours by the grace of God we will still persist though we should perish in the worke which if it should be it is much to be feared That Religion Lawes Liberties and Parliaments would not be long-lived after us FINIS