GOD worketh 〈…〉 s bothe to be willyng and to doo or performe the thyng that he hathe moued vs to be willyng to do accordyng to his bountuous wyll He I say worketh in vs good workes as in his electes notwithstanding the workes ar attributed vnto vs and are called ours whiche neuerthelesse are Gods that glory honor may be geuē to god only Doest thou vnderstande what I say Sy. I doo vnderstand it very well Ioia Dothe it satisfie thee Sy. ye as truly Now do I perceiue that the lernyng of the Anababtistes cometh of ygnoraunce and boldnesse and that it is very pernicious and hurtfull whiche is gaye in the syght of the simple but in dede is an error malicious rudenesse 〈…〉 ut I desyre to knowe what thou wylte saye of the .v. conclusiō For they be fully persuaded that soules are a slepe The .x. treatie or dialoge How that the Soules after that thei be departed from the body do not slepe but lyue in christ Ioiada BVt with this opinion they do abolish the gospel which teacheth of the resurrection of Christ as saynt Paule in the fyrst chap. to the Romayns doth say Besyde that they doo denye the last Article of oure fayth that is to saye The lyfe euerlastyng after this lyfe Is not this therfore a pernitious Doctrine that repugneth agaynst so manifest veritie and sure beleue Sy. Thou doest not vnderstande the Anabaptistes For they doo neyther denye the Gospell nor the Resurrection of Christ They saye that the Soules after the deathe of the bodye if they dooe departe in fayth do slepe in the bosome of Abraham tyl the day of iudgement that then they do entre into euerlasting life And proue their saiynges by the gospell by Paule Luc. xvi i. Thess iiii I wyl not haue you to be ignoraunt touchyng them that are a slepe c. In the Olde Testament it is written of the Fathers that thei fal a slepe with their Fathers And also it is sayde of Stephen that he dyd slepe in the Lord. And that thei at lengthe shall receyue euerlastyng lyfe they do proue it by Paule .ii. Timoth. iiii I haue sayeth he fought a good fyght Now is there layde vp for me a croune of rightwysnesse which the Lorde who is a rightfull iudge shall geue or render vnto me vpon that day not onely to me but also to al them that loue his comynge There is suche a thyng Phil. iii. i. Iohn iii. Or what neade is it of that last iudgement if by by after his death euery man receyueth his owne dome these do seme vnto me strong Nowe wyll I fayne he are what thou canst saye agaynst it Io. I saye the same thyng that I sayde before If our soules dooe sleepe after the death of the bodye the soule of Christ sleepeth also and the resurrection is disanulled For Christ dyd proue that ther was an euerlasting lyfe by his rising agayne which can not be euerlastyng if the soule slepeth and begynneth then to lyue when iudgement dothe come Wherfore the sleepe of the Anababtistes dothe euacuate and disanull the gospell and resurrection As for the bosome of Abraham I aske the whether it be a slepyng place dormitori or a receptacle and place to receyue the lyuyng Sy A place whervnto the soules of y e faithfull Christen men ar gathered together tyll the day of iudgement Ioi Where is that place aboue or benethe Sy It is vncerteyne to me God doth know Nor it is not lawfull for vs to enquyre Sy. So ye do defend al vncertayne thynges that ye do teache And ye that do speake babble muche of the bosome of Abraham and do not know yet That comyng of Christ shall be in the last day of all Ioia What and I vnderstande that of the comyng of Christ at the ende of euery mans lyfe Sy. So thou doest say but it must be proued by the holy scriptures Io. These ar not my wordes but the wordes of him that speaketh there of his owne death For he vseth this word to go for to dye so that to go and to dye is all one thyng with him And agayne this worde to come wherfore the Anababtistes doo stryue is not taken for his last comyng but for the resurrectiō of christ and ye helpe and ayde that he sheweth vpon the faythfull christen men being in extreme nede For he came agayne after that he was rysen from death dyd declare that he had opened the kingdom of god that we might be sure that as he dyd entre in to heauen him selfe so we shuld come in or entre in also But he is entered in to immortal lyfe not in to slepe in to the kyngdome of God and not in to the bosome of Abraham and that by by after his death Therfore we shall also incontinent after our death entre in to euerlastyng lyfe and into the kingdome of God For he taketh vs away when he calleth vs from death to lyfe Iohn v. For it is added by maner of exposicion That where I am ther ye may be also Therfore are we taken in soule from death to euerlastyng lyfe in body to iudgement Or tell me dyd Christ with his death reserate open heauen whiche was locked vp afore or not Sy I do graunt that he did opē it Ioi But what neadeth this reseration or openyng if the soules doo not entre in to lyfe Where as notwithstādyng Paul doeth say I coueit to be dissolued deliuered from this body to be w t christ beleuyng that after this death he should be with Christ Peter moreouer doeth saye that for this cause the gospel was preached vnto the dead that they shuld be iudged in the flesh but lyue after or in y e spirit do not these manifest places teache proue that the soules doo lyue with God For he sayeth that y ◠gospell was preached vnto the dead What is els the gospel to be preached but redemption lyfe to be preached And what were they that were dead but they which after that thei were departed were gathered in the bosome of Abraham Sy. But howe was the gospell preached vnto them Ioia The vertue of the passion of Christ and the fruit of his death which were profitable vnto them Sy. How Ioi Because that they being deliuered thorough the death of Christ ar receiued as touching their soules into euerlastyng lyfe In the last day they shall ryse bodily and as all other shall be iudged in the vniuersall iudgement In the meane season their soules do liue with God Is it proued sufficiently that the soules that wer in the bosome of Abraham are delyuered brought in to heauen Sy. I dooe not saye agaynst it Ioia And thou shalt fynde none other thing in the word of god ▪ It followeth therfore that th◠Bosome of Abraham is no dormitory or slepyng place but an euerlastyng lyfe Which thyng we may proue by the .xvi. of Lu
â–ª For ther it is written that Lazarus is in ioy and solace wheâ— as the rycheman is punyshed in hell If so be that the soule as ye doo say shulde slepe she coulde haue no ioye excepte iâ— were by dreames if she reioyseth or haue ioy it is impossible that she shoulde slepe Likewisâ— it is manifest li knowen shewed in the .viii. of Mathew that many shall come sytte in the kyngdome of God with Abraham Isaak and Iacob That in the meane season I shoulde sai nothing that slepe is cleanâ— contrarye to the nature of the soule which is in Greke called â—ntesecheia or Endesechia that is to sai â— perpetuall and vnrequietable â—otion or workyng Sy. These â—hinges are more manifest and more strong then I thought Ioia It is the poynte of an vnwise man to say I thought not and hauyng hearde but one â—arte to geue sentence The Aâ—ababtistes do aduaunce and â—et forth gaily and paintyngly their argumentes but they are weake and nothyng strong Sy. I woulde fayne know in what significacioÌ„ the scripture vseth this worde to slepe which is so often tymes founde in euery place of the Bible Ioia Among the auncient fathers this worde to slepe was to dye naturally or after the commen course of nature And because of the resurrectioÌ„ it was saied that thei which dyd dye sleape For as a man geueth hym selfe to sleape doubting nothing but that he shall wake agayne from his sleape so the body sleapeth that is to say dyeth doeth lyâ— in the graue beyng kepte there â—yl the day of the general resurrection So the Fathers dyâ— sleape so Stephen all otheâ— godly persons Seyng therforâ— that to sleape is to dye and thâ— soules can not dye it foloweth that they canne not sleape Foâ— Stephen dyd saye Lorde receiue thou my spirite which thyng when he had saied haâ— coÌ„mitted or coÌ„mended his soul to the heauenly father his bodâ— sleapynge dyd dye In thy thyng they are deceyued thaâ— they do attribute vnto the souâ— that which belongeth to the body only But in the meane seasoÌ„ it is attributed to the whole maÌ„ because of the vnitie of the body and of the soule beyng knytted in one persone Which example was brought afore of Christ in whom the body died only not his godhead nor his soule Lykewyse a man slepeth but with his bodye not with his soule The Anababtistes doo not nor wyl not vnderstand this figure Sinâ—cdochâ— nor the other figures tropes Which thyng causeth them to erre in many thynges But ignorauncye maketh them the bolder to teache what so euer they do dreame or conceyue in their sleape Sy. Yet it is euident that Paul saith that a cotoune of rightwisnes shal be reÌ„dered vnto him at lengthe when thâ— Lorde cometh And also that which is written in Iohn anâ— in the Epistle to the Philipenâ— is sure and strongly grounded â–ª Ioia This ought to be obserueâ— Symon that the daye of thâ— Lorde in scriptures is not alwayes to bee taken for the lasâ— day but somtyme for the truth and lyght as in the gospell oâ— Iohn otherwhyles for the viâ— sitacion of the Lorde as ofteâ— tymes in the Prophetes and â— Cor. iii. sometyme for the endâ— death of euery man as Iohâ— vi I wyll resussitate or raysâ— him agayne to euerlastyng life in the last daye that is to sayeâ— when he dyeth For when anâ— man dyeth that day is last vntâ— hym After thys maner dyâ— Paule call the last daye in thâ— Epistle to Timothe For he had spoken before of his death saiyng I am ready to be offered affirming that he had ben faith full and loyall in his course therfore he dyd not doubte but that the rightwise iudge shulde render vnto him the coroune of rightwysnesse which as he leaueth no vnrightwysnesse vnpunyshed so alwayes rewardeth them that lobor faithfully And this place doeth rather for vs then for the Anababtistes seing that Paule dothe hope that the coroune of rightwysnesse duyd vnto the rightwyse shal be renderyd vnto him at the tyme of his death Ergo he beleueth not that the soules do slepe but that they do lyue euerlastingly That which thou aledgest out of Iohn and Paule to the Philipenses are spoken of the last iudgement but they proue not that the soules are a sleape For that whiche they doo speake of saluation there dooe perteyne more to the resurrection of the body For these are the wordes of Paule He shall transforme that is to say Christ our vyle body that he may make it conforme and lyke to his glorious body What meane these thingê elles but that our bodyes haue full hope of resurrection or risyng agayn As Iob dyd speke Iob .ix. Sy. If the soules dooe receyue by and by their iudgement as sone as they be departed what neadeth that vniuersall iudgement Ioia It perteyneth to the whole man whiche shall be repayred or made new agane with the body that shall ryse with the soule Of the which thyng it is written Chess .iiii. Mat. xxiiii .xxv. Doest thou yet desyre any thiÌ„g Sy. I had leauer heare foundations and groundes oute of the scriptures Ioia I haue brought verye many alreadye what dooest thou aske more Sy. Thou hast other helpes yet the which I pray the to bryng forth Ioia Seynge that thou arte desyrous of the truthe I wyll hyde nothyng frome the. This Doctrine and Opinion of the Sleape of the Soules dooeth not ouelye repugne agaynst the Scriptures fayth dooeth not onely disanulle the Gospell and Resurrection of Christ but is also agaynst all coÌ„mune sense reasone a rude and vnclearkelye ignoraunce but go to let vs expounde these thyngê I aske thee if the soule be a body or a spirite Sy. It is not a bodye nor any grosse substaunce but a syngle and pure spirite Ioia Can then a spirite be subiect to bodily infirmities as to be an hongered to be weryed to dye c. Sy. No for these perteyne to the bodye onely A spirite is immortall incorruptible euerlasting or perpetuall Ioiada Thou sayest very well therfore marke thyne argumeÌ„t thus Sith the soule is a spirit not a bodye it can not be subiecte to bodily passions or infirmities but is exempte frome them slepe doth chaunce to the body thorough werinesse Ergo the soule can not slepe for the soule cannot be weary Or canst thou brynge any other thynge concernyng slepe Sy. No for all operacions and senses dooe ceasse and rest and excepte the body shulde brethe folkes wold thynke that it were dead Ioia Now if our soules should slepe it shoulde folow that after this lyfe we doo feele neither good nor euyll which dothe directly pugne agaynste the Gospell Moreouer we wyl proue by the nature of the slepe that the soules can not slepe but the bodye only For now I aske the when doeth the soule slepe after that she is departed frome the body or when she is yet ioyned to the body
true lyuyng god through Iesu Christe In so muche that among the enemies of the gospell it is saied in maner of a prouerbe that priestes doe preache nothyng elles but of god and faith onely beyng offēded with this preachyng Man is iustified by faith alone Sym. Truely the mattier is so Ioiada Now therefore if the Catababtistes dooe teache of god and faithe otherwise surely thei dooe blaspheame god and seduce the people And if thei doe teache all one thing with vs for so it must be if thei doe teache ryght and accordynge to the scriptures why doe thei therfore separate them selues from vs. Or is not that sufficient that we teache sythe that we dooe teache bothe one thyng Sym. There is one thyng that ye wyll not teache that is to saie that thei whiche are godly shulde not sinne at al. And again sinners are not shunned of you Nor ye will not separate your selues from this polluted and wicked worlde Ioiad We were taught by our sauiour Iesu Christ that thei that are whole haue no neade of the phisycian but thei that art sycke For the Pharisees dyd obiecte the same to y ◠disciples of Christ saiyng Why doeth your maister eate with sinners furthermore seyng that no man liueth without synne not as muche as the infaunt of one daie we owght not to teache that men shoulde not synne at all but rather to repent daiely and hourely and to beware of sinne as of a snake and that the godly owght not to dispaire if thei fall at any tyme As for the sinnes that are committed openly thei are so exagitate or rebuked by the ministers of the churche Suche seueritee and extreme grauitee is vsed in rebukyng that theyr enemies are wont to saie alredy that thei can none other thyng but chide and braule Agayne touchynge abstencion or separatyng we doe not see that euer Christe did the same as long as there was any hope We doe not separate our selues least we become like vnto the Pharisees Luc. xviii Symon But sinnes are not forsaken Ioiada And that owght not to bee imputed to the doctrine but to them whiche doe not folow the teachyng The teachyng and doctrine as thou grauntest thy selfe is holsome and in it nothing is wantyng or lackynge What other thyng doe then the Catababtistes in teachyng the contrary but shew theyr pertinacy and a certaine syngularitee or loue of them selues wherby it cometh to passe that nothyng but that which thei doe them selues pleaseth them As this is not done without affection so it can not be without vice Symon And yet not withstandyng thou doest not beleue how deuout they are to god how full of constancy and grauitee how feruently thei loue god Ioiada I can not beleue y t this deuocion of theirs is without blame or is syncere and pure For thei diuide the churche where no neade is For thou canst not denaie but that god is taught by vs truely and faithfully And that synnes are reprehended and rebuked with great libertee and constauncie What doe thei therfore that we doe not saue onely that thei doe separate them selues frō other and are full of obstinacie Doeth not Sathā also transforme him selfe into an āgell of light What merueill is therfore if these impostours or deceitfull persons can faine them selues to be sheapeherdes Thei that doe fisshe dooe not caste a bare hooke before the fysshes but doe hyde couer it with some pleasaunt and swete baite And Cato did saie veary well Whiles the byrder the byrdes begyleth The flute alwai swetely pipeth Nor he is not so foolisshe as for to set or laye his net before the birdes eies Did not the bisshop of Rome seduce vs so many yeres with his peincted hipocrisie and with his godly and dyuyne dissimulacion and fraude But these thynges are gon out of remembraunce sythe that we doe so lyghtly addicte or bynde our selues to these newe impostours and hipocrites By what craftes did monkes get so gret richesses was it not by flatteryng and hypocrisie Was it not by a feined sanctimony and holynesse of lyfe As for that y t thei doe reioyce when thei are taken dye gladly with praysyng and laudyng god thou doest so exaggerate and extoll it as though these thynges if thei be done shulde shewe and proue that their doctrine is true and that their deedes are good If thou canst proue that it shall folowe that theft and robbery be iuste and good deedes also For whan thei be punisshed at the galows or vpon the whele thei doe oftentymes suffer it paciently moreouer doe praise laude god Who is so folysshe to thynke that he maye thus make his argument This man is tormented and punisshed yet not withstandynge dooeth gyue thankes ergo he is a iust man holy If any man shulde contende that this doeth folow he muste nedes to graunt also that the religion of the Iues is moste holy yea that their religion onely is true For no man ▪ doeth pacientlyer endure to the very death for his religion thā the Iues doe How many heretikes were there thinkest thou which did moste constantly suffer death testifiyng w t their oūe blood that thei had taught the truthe Do not oftētime robers traitours which suffer death accordīg to their deseruyng stifly defend their innocencie to the last breath Is therfore y ◠cause of such an obstacle and desperat man iustified before god Who doeth not perceiue y ◠the farther he is from repentance and confession so muche the worse he is Symon It is so as thou saiest nor I can not saie againste it But this is moste to be lamented that we whiche are simple persons are so tossed and caried to and fro in so muche that we can not tel what is beste to bee doone The Anababtistes dooe saie that ye doe erre and ye saie agayne that thei be out of the right waie After my iudgemēt what misery so euer or trouble there is it dooeth come of the priestes And I dooe thinke y t ther were neuer so troublesome tymes It were peraduenture better that I folowyng myne owne mynde shuld beleue none of you al doyng al thinges after myne owne appetite and witte Ioiada Thou shalt not do so my Symō but now learne by thine own self what good doeth come of the anababtistes what thou hast sucked of thē for thou doest shew openly y e fruite that is to saie desperacion and to trust in thi self hast thou forgottē what god hath commaunded in Deuteronomy saiyng ye shal not do euery man y ◠which semeth good vnto you but that which y ◠lord hath commanded So this phātasticall new fangled men do intangle w t them selues other men cast thē hedlyng into all errours But ye your selues are in the faulte being the autors of your one harmes for such deceitful persons do please you By by as sone as any cōtencious body or some new vnaccustomed thing doeth set forthe his head
which being necessari to the body do in processe of tyme waxe olde waste and consume away suche as be condicion rychesse and grosse elementes of thys worlde But circumcision was not taught by the false prophetes as an outwarde thyng but as a necessary needeful thyng to saluacion which thei dyd very vrgently and instantly persuade that it shoulde bee obserued kepte yea and all the whole law besyde Hereof dyd ryse the disputacion whche is written of in the xv chap. of the Actes Els Paule dyd circumcise Timothie for peace and tranquilitie sake and because that he woulde not offende certayne weake bretherne in the Churche but after that some men dyd vrgently bring in circumcison as necessary Paule dyd greatly repugne woulde not suffer Titus to be circumcized .xvi. of the Actes .ii. Galat. This sedicioÌ„ therfore that thou aledgest here hathe a greatter cause then an outwarde thyng Sy. Howe darest thou call richesse outwarde thinges which do exclude a maÌ„ from the kyngdome of Heauen For Christ sayeth that it is easyer for a camell to go thoroughe the eye of a nydle then for a ryche man to entre into the kyngdome of Heuen Io. We doo know well inoughe the false sighynges and teares of the Crocodyle which these light and inconstant Anababtistes do poure doune daily dispisynge richesse none other wyse then the Foxe dyd in tymes past dispyse the sweete grapes that she could not come by Richesse are by them selues nether good nor euyll but the vse dothe make theim either good or euyll If thyne eye be simple and lyghtsome all the body shal be lyghtsome but if thyne eye be wycked and euyll all thy body shall be darkenesse Mat. vi Therfore if a riche maÌ„ be faithfull and godly the richesse that he hathe be good and that by reason of the good vse If the master or owner of the richesse is vnfaythful or an infidell his richesse are nought Luke .xvi. Such do christ speake of when he bringeth in the similitude of the camell and of the eye of the nedle There wer innumerable bothe in the olde newe Testament whiche in great richesse were called no small frendes of God as Noe Abraham Lot Isaac Iacob Iob Ioseph c. Whiche in the myddest of their rychesse dyd cleaue vnto God with a sincere harte and good fayth Loke what opinioÌ„ Paul hathe of this thyng and what he writeth of it .i. Timoth. vi Therfore I care not what these hipocrites doo bable and prate sith that the richemen may doo good to the poore in Christes Churche whiche occasion they that haue no richesse doo lacke To what purpose or intent doo then these mad braines trouble all the worlde for trifelyng and vnnecessary thyngê I do know sum which if thei had as much as they do lacke thorough their owne negligence and slugherdnesse they woulde fynde by and by a way to iustify their vniust and euyll gotten goodes Sy. I doo let that passe I pray the to proue the seconde conclusion Peraduenture I shall learne somewhat by it Ioiada That Christ dyd neuer cause tumult for outwarde thynges but dyd alwayes study to peace tranquilitie we wyl bring the .xvii. of Mathew where he speaketh to Peter after this maner Lest we do offeÌ„d them that is to say that do receyue the didragme go thy waye to the sea cast in thy hoke and the fyrst fysh that cometh open his mouth thou shalt fynde a stater take it and geue it for the me In the. xxii of Math when he was asked of the yearely tribute that was payed vnto Ceasar he did so fly from tumulte that he dyd iyone bothe god and Ceasar togither biddyng them to pay their duty to eche of them Nor he dyd not condempne them that dyd receyue Nor agayne he dyd not say Blessed are they which doo geue He dyd not say ye owe nothyng by Goddes law but notwithst andyng geue wo be vnto hym that dothe receyue In the .xiii. of Iohn Christ doth so teache hys Disciples I geue you a new coÌ„mauÌ„dement that ye loue eche other as I haue loued you By this shall all men know that ye be my Disciples if ye loue eche other And incontinent in that long sermon that he made vnto his Disciples after his Maundy he doth chefely speake of the Spirite of the faythfull And a lytell afore he shoulde sende his Apostles he dyd saye Peace vnto you as my father hathe sent me so I sende you The .xiiii. chap. Rom. Paule sayeth The kyngdome of God is neyther meate nor drinke but rightousnesse peace and gladnesse in the holy ghost For he that serueth vnto christ in those thyngê is accepted both before GOD and before men Therfore let vs followe that whiche belongeth to peace and edifieng one towarde another In the .i. Cor. i. he dothe exhorte the CorinthiaÌ„s after this maner I beseche you brethren in the name of oure Lorde Ihesu Christ that ye dooe speake all one thyng and that there be no dissencioÌ„s among you but that yee bee one whole bodye of one mynde opinion Let no suche contencioÌ„s be among you that one shoulde say I am Cephas disciple another I am Pauls an other I am Christes Is Christ diuided was Paul crucified for you Or were ye baptised in the name of Paule When ye do say so ar ye not yet carnal Moreouer loke consider what Paul writeth in the xii cha to the Cori. exhortyng them to concorde charitie by the exemple of the body and the lymmes In the .xiiii. he sayeth apartelye that God is not aucthor of discencion but of concorde and peace whiche thyng may be sene in the Churches of the faythfull In the .iiii. to the Ephesians Paule doeth exhort vs to behaue oure selues and walke so as it doeth become the vocacion wherwith we are called with all obeisaunce lowlynesse with gentlenes of hert forbearing eche other thorough charitie and that we shoulde studye to kepe the vnitie of the spirite by the bounde of peace beyng sayth he one body one spirite as yee are called in one hope of your vocacion There is but one Lorde one fayth one Baptisme one God and father of vs all â–ª c. In the â–ª ii chap. to the Philippians with lyke study exhorteth he the faythfull to be of lyke affection to haue betwene them selfes loue charitie to be of lyke mynde lyke iudgement and that nothyng shoulde be doone among them by contencion or vayneglorye But by humilitie lowlynesse of hearte euerye man shoulde thynke an other maÌ„ to be more excellent then he is himself c. Are not these sufficient testimonies Sy. What dooe these thynges agaynste the Anabaptistes Io. Very much for thei proue and shew manifestli that the Anabaptistes be authors of tumulte and sedicion Sy. What is that Ioi That is to say that they against al good ordre and exemple of the Apostles dooe make stryfe contencion in the Churche of Christ