are as followeth For John Horn and Thomas Moor both Teachers who disputed against George Whitehead at Lin the 15. th day of the 7th month 59. A few questions of concernment for them or any that own them to answer directly 1. WHether do you own that Christ hath two Bodies one in Heaven and another on Earth yea or nay 2. Whether the body of Christ which is the sulnesse of God whereof the Saints are members is a Body of flesh and bones in the Heavens yea or nay 3. Whether did the body of flesh and bones wherein Christ suffered descend from Heaven into the lower parts of the Earth yea or nay Seeing no man hath ascended up to Heaven but the Son of man which came down from Heaven And it is the same that descended into the lower parts of the Earth that ascended far above all Heavens that be might fill all things Eph. 4. 9 10. Psal 68. 18. 4. What and where are the lower parts of the Earth whereinto Christ descended from his Father 5. And if he which descended into the lower parts of the Earth be a person of flesh and bones which ascended far above all Heavens what is that place he is in far above all Heavens which is not Heaven 6. Whether do you believe that all the Heavens are local places one above another and above the Firmament called Heaven yea or nay 7. Can a body of flesh and bone be both in the Heavens and far above them all and fill all things at one and the same time yea or nay 8. Seeing Thomas Moor did not own that Christs body is a carnal body in Heaven how is it that you say his body is a body of flesh and bones or a humane body without blood in it is not a fleshly body Carnal 9. Can any locall place containe that Glory which Christ had with the Father before the World was wherein he is Glorified 10. Where or how came Christ into the house where his Disciples were met after his Resurrection the doors being shut John 20. 19. 26. Have not some of you said that then his body being Spirituallized it glided in at the Key-hole of the door for so it hath been spoken concerning some of your way 11. Whether the same Christ who in the dayes of his flesh suffered persecution whose body was subject to hunger and afliction be not made a quickening Spirit 1 Cor. 15. 45. And yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his Flesh is his meat indeed and his Blood is his drink indeed 12. And if the Blood of Christ that was shed be the drink indeed and the purger of the Conscience where is that blood if not in Christs flesh as you affirmed Seeing that men must drink the Blood of Christ as well as eat his Flesh or else they have no life in them 13. And was the Blood of Christ that was shed seperate from his Body and then bearing Record in the Earth when John wrote these words in 1 John 5 8. 14. And how can the Blood of Christ either cleanse away from sin or give life to any if the Life of Christ be not in it as Thomas Moor affirmed 15. How many comings of Christ do you own seeing you yet have his second coming without sin unto Salvation to look for 16. What are these seeds that must every one have its own Body in the Resurrection and whether are they Natural or Spiritual 17. And must not every seed have a body of its own nature 18. And whether the wicked upon whom after Death Judgement is come whose souls are in Hell must afterward come out of Hell again to receive a second Judgement 19. Whether the receiving Bread and Wine to shew the Lords Death be to continue an Ordinance in the Church till the end of the World yea or nay 20. And whether doth the receiving Bread and Wine alone without an outward Passeover really figure forth the Death of Christ 21. And how must the life of Christ be shewen forth and when if People must receive Bread and Wine as a continuing Ordinance in this Life alwayes to shew forth the Death of Christ 22. What is your ground for sprinkling the Children of them you count believers have you ever a command from God or evident example for it if you have shew it 23. Whether do you own such Teachers as take Tythes or Preach for hire or for gifts and rewards yea or nay 24. What is the Soul of man which the Word of God is to save and what is the difference between the Soul and the Spirit seeing the word of God divides them asunder 25. Whether men must be justified by the same Righteousness of Christ in them which sanstifies them yea or nay 26. What is that Light with which Christ lighteth every man that cometh into the world which Thomas Moor said is both Natural and Spirituall Name one Light that every man is lighted with that is both Natural and Spiritual or else let your silence be an acknowledgement of your Ignorance touching the Light and that you have confuted your selves for Thomas Moor would not acknowledge that every man hath a Spiritual Light in him or is inlightned with a Spiritual Light But that every man should in due time be enlightned with such a Light when the seed is sown or by the Preaching of the Gospel what says he then to this the Gospel is preached in every Creature under Heaven Answer directly in simplicity without evading from these things propounded to you as you did evade and cavil at the dispute and Thomas Moor severall times fled from his own words and John Horn when you could not answer to our Question where the Blood of Christ is which you say is the foundation of Faith in his deceit asked us the same question again leave off such deceit for shame and come down to the simplicity of God in you and speak not evil of the things you know not And if you answer these questions send or give your answer to some of our friends in Lin to be conveyed to me Who am a friend to the Truth But a witnesse against all Deceit Hypocrisie and dead formality that is among you George Whitehead An Answer to the Questions forementioned THese Questions give so full intimation of their Antichristian Spirit and give us such occasion to discover it to others and so evidence the Truth of God in the great things of his Doctrine against their endeavours to make it void That since all the three forementioned have owned them as sent by them all We have judged it seasonable and tending to the profit of many that they may be saved to make them with this answer publick which answer is owned by John Horn and Thomas Moor senior and Thomas Moor junior And in it we desire the Readers to note that we direct not our speech to them because they have been already discovered and proved deceivers and
9. speaks of his having descended into the lower parts of the earth as may further appear by comparing it with that prediction of our Saviour Mat. 12. 40. as the fulfilling of it is opened by Peter Acts 2. 24. 27. 31. He was made sin and made a curse for us yea he dyed and was buried wonderful was his abasement and humiliation for us and the more wonderful considering the excellency of the person who so willingly humbled and abased himself and what we were for whom he did it the greater the sin of the enemies of his Cross that seek to render it as a common or prophane thing as if of no more worth or preciousnesse then the blood or Sufferings of or sustained in and by other persons may be and so wretchedly strive to abase him that abased himself for them But God hath mightily declared him to be the Son of God by raising him from the dead in the same body the third day for his Soul that was made an offering for sin was not left in bell neither did his flesh see corruption and in that body he is ascended and the Father hath exalted and received him even him whom they crucified slew and hung on a Tree the same that these men also crucifie to themselves and put to an open shame seeking to cast him down from his excellency Q. 5 W. and F. And if he which descended into the lower parts of the earth be a person of flesh and bones which ascended far above all Heavens What is that place he is in far above all Heavens which is not Heaven Answ It is not so hard to find confusion and non-sence in this Supposition and Querie grounded upon it as it is to find so much plainnesse and honesty as by which it may be understood what they mean or require answer to But the intention of this Querie by comparing it with the rest of their confusions of this nature appears to be First To suppose or implie this as the question Whether he that ascended up far above all Heavens be a person of flesh and bones the same that descended into the lower parts of the earth and then by that which follows as the main querie in this question to enforce a Negative answer by rendering the acknowledgement of that Person as being in that his own body in Heaven it self absurd and foolish because they think in their foolish imagination that to acknowledge him to be so in Heaven and yet also far above all Heavens cannot stand together Their inward thought its like is by these perverse disputings to draw us into some snare or confusion that they may glory over us and get advantage to insinuate to such as will listen to them that the plain declarations of these things concerning the Man Christ Jesus in the Scriptures are but cunningly Devised fables that must have some other Moral or Mysterie according to the Sensual or fleshly mind in which they are vainly puft up not holding the head however we shall put it to the issue giving our answers plainly and without hidden things of dishonesty as those that have received a word of truth a faithful saying worthy to be stuck too and of which we are not ashamed And so first to their supposition laid down as the ground of their following querie If he which descended c. be a person of flesh and bones To this we say first we know no person made up or wholly consisting of flesh and bones much lesse is his who is God man the onely begotten Son of God even as now made flesh and so as the Son of Man John 1. 14. now glorified with the Fathers own Self as the Fruits of his Sufferings for in him Col. 2. 9. dwelleth all the fulnesse of the God head bodily Joh. 17. 4 5. Therefore we reject their absurb expression as foolish and impious proceeding from their scorn of him and enmity to him though they in reproach and derision of us for his Sake would intimate it as ours as a little before that other expression not altogether so grosse as this a body of flesh and bones to which having spoken already we add no more to this But further assert in answer to their querie implyed in the Supposition That the Son of Man even Christ of the Seed of David Abraham yea of Noah and Adam after the flesh in that body of his flesh prepared for him when he came into the World in which he was sent forth made of a Woman made under the Law he being found in fashion as a man in the likenesse of sinsul flesh though without sin and in the form of a Servant did also descend into the lower parts of the earth even in the two last sences of the lower parts of the earth before mentioned For as Jonas was three dayes and three nights in the belly of the Whale so was the Son of Man in his finishing the works the Father gave him to do on the earth three dayes and three nights in the heart of the earth Mat. 12. 40. In that Body of his flesh he bore the Judgement of this World even that due to us for sin in which he was made for a time the banished or forsaken one and his Soul therein made an offering for our sin John 12. 27. 31. with Isa 53. 10 Luke 22. 42. 44. Psal 22. 1. c. with Mat. 37. 46. Mark 15. 34. in that his own Body himself bare our sins on the tree 1 Pet. 2. 24. and 3. 18. and once Suffered for Sins the just for the unjust being put to death in the flesh he dyed for our Sins according to the Scriptures and was buried 1 Cor. 15. 3 4. yea farther we assert with the Scriptures that Christ of the Seed of David after the flesh he even the same that dyed and was buried rose again the third day according to the Scriptures for if the dead rise not then is not Christ risen for though it was in or after the flesh that he dyed and was buried yet by reason of the inseparable union of the two natures in one person the word being made flesh It was Christ that died and was buried and therefore also it was not possible that he should be holden of Death 1 Cor. 15. 3 4. 12. 16. Acts 2. 22. 24. His soul was not left in hell neither did his flesh see corruption as Davids did but God raised him the third day even him whom they flew and hung on a tree and took down from the tree and laid in a Sepulcher God raised him from the dead and shewed him openly not to all the people but to witnesses chosen before of God even to those last Apostles who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead Acts 10. 39. 40 41. and 13. 29. 30 31 37. To whom he shewed himself alive after his passion even himself that suffered to death in the flesh alive after his suffering by many
generation or sort of men have finished their course as well as they But after this the Judgement even after this appointment of the whole kind once to die is fulfilled on all generations then will be the general final and Eternal judgement And though those that now sleep in Jesus and have suffered with him shall have their judgement come upon them their Kingdom glory given them to possess first before the rest of the dead yet that will not be till the time and state of the Resurrection of the just that have suffered with him for they shall first rise from the dead neither will that be till the beginning of that great day of Christ when the dayes of sufferings and trouble to that generation will be ended So that the judgement that properly so called as distinguished from other Judgements in this life that are temporal and reversible even the Eternal judgement that is after death it is in the time and state of the Resurrection for there shall be a General Resurrection of both the just and unjust in which they shall come forth to their judgement and that shall be to both at the hour or day of Christ even at his appearing and his Kingdom Acts 24. 15. John 5. 28 29. 2 Tim. 4. 1. and so much also appears in that which follows Heb. 9. 28. where after he hath said as it is appointed to men once to die but after this the judgement he adds as a remedy against the evil that otherwise might be unto men in that death or that judgement following so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin to salvation now as his first appearing to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself answers to the first death and misery and was effectual that by Christ we should be saved from perishing in it and that through him we might be saved so his second appearing without sin to Salvation answers to the judgement after death and is such as by it all those that now through his grace bringing salvation to all men in due time do look for him shall be saved from wrath through him even from the wrath to come when it shall come forth in that judgement so as they shall stand in the judgement even before the Son of man when he appears and the second death shall have no power on them yea they shall then be saved to the utmost by that his appearing yea he shall then appear to their salvation in that judgement which implies his appearing the second time to be first and the judgement after death following upon it at that his appearing and his Kingdome to come upon men in the time and state of the resurrection as before is shewed compare with the forementioned Scriptures Heb. 6. 2. Rev. 20. 12 13. Again their folly is manifest in taking up a sence of the Word Hell from some common contradions without examination as if in every place it signified that place and state of torment in which the wicked are to be punished for ever after the passing of the Eternal judgement upon them whereas they might have known the word Hell is used in Scripture generally for that which is deep and low obscure and dark And so 1. Sometime for the Grave or disappearing state of death whence t is often translated grave from which and from the power of it there is a redemption and deliverance though no man can redeem himself c. Psal 49. 8 9. 15. and 89. 48. Job 17. 13. 16. with Hos 13. 14. 2. Sometime for any such distress or misery as threatens death and as in which a man is in darknesse that he can see no way out or how deliverance should come out of which yet there may be deliverance though he see not how as Jonahs being in the Whales belly Jonah 2. 2 3. c. see also Psalm 86. 13. 88. 6. and 116. 3 4 c. 3. Sometime for that place and state of darkness and separation from God into which the Spirits of ungodly sinners that dy in their sins are cast and shut up from the time of their departing out of the body unto the judgement of the great day for when the body returns to its dust then the spirit returns to God who gave it Ecles 3. 21. and 12. 7. by him to be appointed to its proper place by whom the Spirits of Believers such as die in the Lord are received into Paradise a place and state of pleasure and rest in heaven under the altar on which the perfect Sacrifice was offered sometimes called Abrahams bosom t is such as in which they are from the time of their departure out of the flesh or body with the Lord made perfect so much as the Spirit without the body is capable yet still waiting for the redemption of the Body and Glorious Kingdom promised And so likewise by him the Spirits of the disobedient that persisted in the refusal of him till their sin was finished are when they depart out of the body at the death of the body driven away shut cut from his presence shut up as prisoners in some place and state of darknesse where they are reserved to the judgement of the great day Prov. 14. 32. Isa 24. 22. 1 Pet. 3. 19 20. And this is called hell Psal 9. 17. Luke 16. 23. Rev. 20. 13. that hell that follows or goes along with the first death Rev. 6. 8. That might have been an everlasting Prison to the Souls or Spirits of all mankind had not Christ abolished death by his appearing and obtained a release of all Mankind unto him and the Keys of Hell and Death into his hand But now by him that Hell going with or pertaining to the first death as in this last sence is onely appointed for a prison for all the ungodly in which they shall be reserved as in chains of darknesse to the judgement of the great day where also they are fil'd with unspeakable horror and torment in their spirit in the remembrance and sence of what they have lost and for what lying vanities and what they must shortly and for ever suffer in soul and body together reunited And out of this Hell there shall be such a deliverance as may be resembled by the deliverance of Prisoners to judgement so Rev. 20. 13. John 8. 28 29. in which yet they are not delivered out of darknesse but still in a state of separation from God and the Light of his countenance brought forth to receive their bodies that slept in dust and in them to receive their final conviction and judgement Again 4. Sometime and but seldome the word Hell singly but Hell fire is used for that wrath to come the lake of fire prepared for the Devil and his angels which is to man the second death into which they are not cast while the body is held in the grave and
A Fuller Discovery OF THE Dangerous Principles And lying spirit of the People called Quakers made manifest in George Whitehead John Whitehead and George Fox the younger In their Book against Iohn Horne and Thomas Moore of Lin Regis in NORTHFOLK Written by the said Thomas Moore and Iohn Horne for the fuller satisfaction of all such as desire to be further satisfied about the evil and erroniousnesse of the said People called Quakers Most men will proclame every man his own goodnesse but a faithful man to Christ and his Cause who can find Prov. 20. 6. I marvel yee are so soon removed from him that called you not into your selves but into the grace of Christ unto another Gospel which is not another but there be some that trouble you and would pervert the Gospel of Christ But though we even Apostles or an Angel from heaven persons of most Angel-like carriage and appearance preach any other Gospel unto you as the following Discourse shews that these Quakers do then that which we the Apostles have preached unto you let him be accursed Gal. 1. 6 7 8. LONDON Printed for John Allein at the signe of the Rising Sun in Pauls Church-yard 1660. THE EPISTLE TO THE READER ONce more we have herein presented thee Courteous Reader with a discovery of the People called Quakers in which thou mayest see from their own written and printed sayings by what manner of spirit they be led and what manner of Doctrine they publish and strive to maintain and indeed the naughtinesse of their way is made manifest partly by their Principles and Doctrines broachedly them and partly by the manner of their carriage in their managing and maintaining them Wee shall give thee here a brief account of both in a few Observations 1 For the Doctrines and Principles maintained by them thou mayest observe in their Queries sent us printed with our Answers to them at the close of our Answer to their Book against us as hintâ—d and in their book more clearly asserted or implyed these following viz. I. That Christ hath no other body but his Church no personal body and so that that body of his flesh in which he suffered and bare our sins and which rose again is not a body or is not in being Book pag. 7 8 9. answered by us in our Reply pag. 25. to pa. 42. and Quest 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 11. II. That the blood of Jesus Christ or his personal abasement sufferings in the flesh to the shedding and pouring out his blood and soul to Death sustained by him once in the end or last Ages of the World are not the foundation or of the foundation of their faith so that their faith is not faith in Christs blood as so considered nor is that precious blood or those sufferings of Christ that wherewith their conscience is purged or the spiritual drink of the soul but some other thing principle or spirit in men which they put the Name of the blood of Christ upon See if this conceit or Doctrine in both parts of it negative and affirmative be not hinted in their Quest 12 13 14. seeing the body of his flesh in which he suffered they deny to remain and yet say his blood is in his flesh what can they mean by his flesh but something of his Church which onely they grant to be his body and so that his blood is nothing but some seed principle or sufferings in his Church their pleading against his blood or suffering as the foundation or of the foundation of Faith thou mayst see in their book p. 14 15 16 17. answered by us here p. 52 53 54 c. III. That the lower parts of the earth into which Christ descended and the heavens into which he again ascended are no local places but some conditions or conceits in men Qu. 3 4 5 6â— Book p. 8 9. answered by us p. 26 27 33. IV. That the same body that dies shall not rise again in the Resurrection Book p. 10 11. Answered by us p. 42 to 46. and Quest 16 17. V. That the souls of the wicked shall not come out Hell at the great day of the Resurrection and judgement to be further judged they imply Quest 18. and so that neither the souls nor the bodies of the wicked shall rise again to judgement VI. That that coming of Christ in which the dead in him shall be raised and be caught up into the Ayr together to meet him and be ever with him and in which he shall descend from heaven with a short and the sound of the trumpet c. mentioned 1 Thess 4. 15 16. is already long since past For they say the Apostles and Believers of that Age in which the Apostle wrote remained to it Book p. â— Answered p. 32. Quest 15. and so they agree with Hymeneus and Philetus that said the Resurrection is already past 2 Tim. 16. to 18. VII That the Christ we look for to come from heaven again they desire not the knowledge of Book p. 10. Answered p. 41. VIII That they are sinless or have no sin in them they deny not and that those that are believers in Christ and born of God are perfectly freed from sin as to the being of it in them Book p. 1 to 6. and yet that the little children that John wrote to who were also born of God and know the Father might have sin in them Ans p. 9 10. to p. 24. IX That all sin is guide when as the scripture distinguishes guile from other sins and other sins from guile 1 Pet. 2. â— and sayes some have no guile in their spirits who yet have sins though forgiven and covered yet there to be covered Psalm 32. 1. 2. Book p. 4. 5. Answ p. 17 18. X. That Adam might have died the natural death if he had not sinned and so that the bodily or natural death came not in by sin Book p. 6 7. Ans p. 23. XI That Christ came not to redeem men from out of the natural or bodily death B. p. 7. Ans p. 25. XII That our faith that is not grounded in Christs appearing in us is to be turned up by the roots and so by consequence that all the faith that is grounded in Christs appearing and suffering for us without us and in his appearing in heaven for us and so such faith as that of the Elect mentioned Rom. 8. 33 34 35. is by these mens Doctrines to be rooted up Book p. 10. Ans p. 41 42. XIII That the Apostles and all that were led by the spirit of God c. witnessed the Redemption of the body spoken of Rom. 8. 23. when they were upon the earth and did not put it afar off as they deridingly phrase the looking and waiting for it till after death in which they say again in effect that the resurrection of the believers body is made in this life Book p 11 12. Ans p. 47 48 XIV That the knowledge
us or with any that know and believe the Scriptures but they imply That if Adam was under a covenant of works do this and live then he should not have lived when he was in innocency till he had done some thing to merit life Rep. The mistake of this is shewed above in that that covenant was not for the first giving but for the continuance of his life in the favour of God and that though he could not merit by any works and obedience was to be continued upon his working that that was good sinlesly otherwise he was to die as appeared in that he lost it by his sinning and fell under death from which that covenant afforded no Redemption as the covenant in Christ doth so that we have not spoken ignorantly as they charge us but the ignorance is found with them that confound what covenant Adam was under with what was given to the people of Israel for convincement of their sin when fallen The covenant of works or Law as given to fallen man in the hand of a Mediator entred because of transgression till the seed came and so was given with subordination to the covenant of grace even the grace of God in the Redeemer from the fall and the death that came by sin as the naturall death also did though they erroneously imply the contrary and no marvaile for if that death be by sin then there must be a Redemption out of that death and so a Resurrection of the body from it which seeing they deny how can they grant it comes in by sin and that the seed should Redeem the creature out of it So that herein also their iniquity and corrupt judgement is seen and the root of their deniall that the naturall death came in by sin namely their deniall of the Redemption by Christ from that death and so the Resurrection of the body from it as after will more appear so that here Reader we have a complication of errours in them Thus much to their defence of their first errour about their sinlesness let us see how they defend their second Our second charge of them was about the personall body of Christ in which he suffered which that it is ascended into Heaven the Heavens without all men and above the clouds opposed to the visible earth we say they would not be brought to acknowledge touching which whether we questioned severall times altering our words as they charge us let them judge that read our book But they say W. and F. We contradict our selves because we say that they said the same body that suffered was glorified at Gods right hand in heaven Rep. Nay not unless by that body and that Heaven we say they meant as we expressed in our question which we said they did not and they in their book clearly manifest the truth of what we therein said so that it 's but another falshood added to the former to say that we are stifled in our own confusion and another yet to say that we charge them ignorantly with what they meant for here they plainly say W. and F. It appears we hold Christ hath two bodies in telling of a mysticall body and not receiving that as in answer that his body is the Church the fulness of him that filleth all in all and in that from our words they say we would have Christ to have a body besides or distinct from the fulness of God when as the Scripture doth not say that Christ hath two bodies or that his body is a body of flesh and bones without the blood in it as they say we told them Rep. See here Reader did we ignorantly charge them that by the body they said was glorified in Heaven they meant his Church do not they here speak it out while they tax us with holding Christ hath two bodies because we say he hath his personall body in which he suffered and which he shewed to have flesh and bones in it as a Spirit hath not And is it more absurd for Christ to have in two senses a body or two bodies in different senses of the word body then for the believer to have two heads in two distinct senses hath not George Whitehead and the rest each of them their personall head in which they have tongues with which they smite them that are more righteous then themselves And if they were believers in truth should they not have Christ for their head too And why then may not Christ have a body of his own as a man the man Christ Jesus in which he shewed his Disciples flesh and bones and yet have a body mysticall or body signifying a Church society or congregation as he is the Ruler and Governour of them and in them by his Spirit And doth not the Scripture set forth both these to us as distinct bodies though those very words two bodies it hath not was it his body the Church in which he shewed his Disciples his flesh and bones hands and feet that were pierced with Nailes and in which he bare our sins on the tree And was it his personal body for which Paul filled up the remainder of the sufferings Col. 1. 24. Is there not expresly the body of his flesh mentioned Col. 1. 22. In which he reconciled us to God his now glorious body in the Heavens to which the body of his Church is to be fashioned into the likeness of it Phil. 3. 20. 21. And the body his Church Col. 1. 24. See here how these men broadly deny Christ as man and onely make him a Spirit filling the Church and so the Spirit and the Church to be Christ and is not that all the Christ they confess now to be And whereas they say we would have Christ to have a body besides and distinct from the fulness of God Col. 2. 9. We say we acknowledge a body in which dwells the fulness of the Godhead which we say is distinct from the fulness of the Godhead that dwells in it and is distinct too from the Church the fulness it is not said of God as God but of him that filleth all in all that is of Christ as Mediator in the power of God Ephes 4. 9 10. Yet that his body is a body of flesh and bones in Heaven without blood in it we determined not but that that body of flesh and bones or in which he shewed his Disciples flesh and bones is ascâ—nded up into Heaven and he as in it is glorified against which they reason thâ—â— W. and F. It 's not proper to say a body of flesh and bones is in the Heavens as if it were in many places at once for Heavens are more then one a silly reason for by that reason it 's not proper to say a body of flesh and bones is in the waters or a stone sinks in the waters for waters are more then one Heaven and Heavens are indifferently used in the Singular or Plurall number as water and waters be as we
the foundation of the World but now once in the end of the World hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself Heb. 9. 26. Where the Apostle counts it absurd to say Christ hath suffered often since the foundation of the World and behold this new Mystery I suppose the everlasting Gospel so called composed by the Fryers about King Henry 3ds time tells us boldly Acts and Mon. vol. 1. p. 416. and roundly he is yet suffering and suffers daily and reigns daily in every age suffers in some reigns in others And so Christ himselfe was out that said I was dead and am alive and live fox evermore but for that of the Hebrews I suppose if these new but not true prophets and Apostles would speak out they would tell us the foundation and the end of the world are both in them but remember still that they are not the true Apostles and Prophets whatever they say They say This is no Mystery of deceit as we say of it but a Mystery that hath discovered our deceits who know not the seed of the Kingdom nor the power wherein it rises Reply Yes yes this is the Mystery of deceit the strong delusion long since prophesied of that men should be given over to for not receiving the love of the Truth that they might be saved But counting the Preaching of the crosse foolishnesse as in truth this people do and that makes them turn it into a fable or Allegory but we know the end of these men and them that follow them wilfully and pertinaciously too as the Apostle hath foretold For this cause God shall send them strong delusions to believe aly and they believe it indeed that will deny the True Christ and his sufferings and Sacrifice and Gospel for it and run into hazards and sufferings like mad men to promote it that they might be all damned that have not believed the Truth as indeed these heartily have not for had they they would not easily have entertained such deceits and fancies but have pleasure in unrighteousnesse c. 2 Thes 2. 10 11 12. Wo wo to this people and their followers for however they are entered in for this condemnation or contention their damnation slumbereth not Flee from their tents and Teachings their deceits and underhand denyals of the only Lord God and the Lord Jesus Christ that bought them all yea that would escape utter ruine and destruction for here we have the Spirit that confesseth not Christ come in the flesh but making him the figure of a Spirituall wickednesse or Mysterious deceit that works in them that perish For even in that clause last mentioned by them too the seed of the Kingdom is made all one with the Son of man that sows it for both are Christ with them but they ask Have we never known what Christ is without the Camp Surely we know he is a reproach and scorn to such as these are that are not of the Camp of Israel and thither must we follow him bearing his reproach for owning and acknowledging his simplicity But they say That before we who are neglecters of Christ and abusers of his Truth can know the seed of God and what it is in us we must come to the Light which will condemn us for our deceits and lyes wherewith we have abused the Truth and then learn to know what and where the grave is which Christ hath made with the wicked Reply Their reproach we shall bear and shew their evil in it by and by but this we say That by the light that reproves and condemns all neglects and abuses of Truth in us or them we are helped to see the Mystery of their deceits and Spiritual wickednesses in Heavenly things and how they turn his words of truth into a lie not only neglecting but wholly trampling the true Christ under their feet that they might make way for and introduce their own fancies Toward the end of our discourse turning our speech to the people we desired them to take heed of these men as a heavie judgement of God that he hath ordered to us joyning ourselves therein with the people as part of the National Body as the Apostles and Prophets use to do to punish us for our neglect of Christ the Salvation of God and abuse of his Truth And here they think they have gotten a great advantage and their mouths are exceedingly open upon us wresting our words and loading us with reproaches twitting us over and over that we are neglecters of Christ and abusers of Gods Truth by our own confession blessed be God that we are counted worthy to suffer reproach for his Names sake for that 's the thing they are mad at us for though they take occasion from our confession of our own and the peoples sins therein shewing themselves the right brood of evil doers such as David of old grappled with in his age as in Psal 38. 17 18 19. For I am ready to halt said David and my sorrow is continually before me For I said I will declare mine iniquity I will be sorry for my sins but mine enemies are lively as if they had no sin to own and confess or were none of the body of the people that had deserved judgement and they are strong in their delusion and confidence in evil and they that hate me wrongfully are multiplyed so these men thus triumph W. and F. Here have yee made manifest your selves indeed ye Hypocrites what have ye been crying out against the Quakers calling them deceivers warning the people to beware of them writing against them and judging them to be in delusion and errours when you your selves neglect Christ the salvation of God and have long abused the truth as ye are made to confesse consider your own condition you are in great delusion and errour your selves who neglect Christ c. and ye are not like to bring people nor can to Christ the Salvation of God and his Truth who are neglecters of Christ and abusers of his Truth c. Reply To which we say 1. They wrest our sayings as if we spake only of our selves when we speak evidently of the Nation in generall and of our selves as part of them as having our share also too much in their pollutions And is it not evident that the Nation is too full of neglect of Christ and abuse of his Truth nor do we exempt our selves from all faultinesse therein Even as the Prophets of old joyned in themselves with the people whose sins they confessed as knowing should the Lord have been severe to mark their iniquities they could not have stood Therefore they said not as the Hypocrites stand apart we be holier then you as those do that are a smoak in Gods nostrils a fire that burneth all the day Isa 65. 5. For 2. The Hypocrites be those that spy moats in their brothers eye but see not the beam in their own that justifie themselves before men and
as the fruit of his once dying for them who therefore died rose and revived that he might be Lord of all the Judge of quick and dead not so any other man or men and so he mostfully answers the similitude or comparison as used in that 1 Cor. 15. 36 37. also But now Christ being risen from the dead is become the first fruits of them that sleep and the first fruits and harvest must needs be both of one and the same kind as to the thing to be raised though the first fruits be more excellent and glorious in it self then the following His resurrection therefore being the resurrection of the body the resurrection of others by him must needs be the resurrection of their bodies also for since by man came death and was not that also the death of the Body by man also the resurrection of the dead and is not that the body for as in Adam all die so in Christ shall all be made alive So then 2. We further say with the Apostle in his following answer and application of the comparison the same body that is now a natural body it even the same that is sown in corruption it is raised in the Resurrection after Death in incorruption it the same it or body that is sown in dishonour having neither Life Breath Beauty or Fitnesse for Society it is raised in honour it the same that is sown in weaknesse so as it cannot help it self but moulders to dust it is raisin power and so in Immortality It the same It or body that is sown a natural body it is raised a Spiritual body For there is a natural Body and such are all men first and there is a Spiritual Body and such shall the same bodies be that were sown natural Bodies in the resurrection the same shall be Spiritual Bodies it is the same body in a new quality And as it is absurd and unreasonable to immagine that that Body that suffers much even to death for the name of Christ shall after death cease for ever and another Body that never so suffered be raised and Glorified in stead thereof or that the body that runs on in wickednesse and is yeilded up to unrighteousnesse even to death shall from thence cease to be for ever and another Body rise that never so acted the sin nor was imployed in the service of it and suffer the punishment for the former for we must all appear before the righteous Judgement Seat of Christ that every one may receive in his Body the things in the fruit or reward of them done in his Body according to what he hath done whether it be good or bad for what a man soweth that shall he the man reap be not deceived God is not mocked 2 Cor. 5. 10. Rom. 14. 9 10 11 12 Gal. 5. 7 8. c. So likewise it is as absurd to think there can be a resurrection of that which never died or before it be dead Thou fool that which thou sowest is not quickened except it die c. as before it is the dead that rise in the Resurrection Luke 20 37. Mark 12. 25 26. 17. Query And must not every seed have a body of its one Nature Answ In this question that they may render absurd the belief and acknowledgment of the resurrection of the dead body which while it lives here is vile and mortal in it self and in death further corrupts and turns to dust They imply that every seed must have a body of its own Nature and so that if the mortal and dead Body rise it must rise the same or in the same Quality or manner of being for so much they include in its own nature in which its sown namely Vile Mortal Weak c. In all which it clearly appeares they therefore so greatly err even as the Sadduces of old because they know not the Scriptures as likewise neither the Power of God Mark. 12 24 27. For the Scripture saith expresly in the forementioned similitude that which thou sowest thou sowest not that body that it shall be but bare grain c. But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him and to every seed his own body the same corn is quickened after it dyes in the ground and so retains its nature or kind as Wheat or some other grain but in the quickening is changed into another quality or manner of being and glory as in the blade and after the ear and fruit as aforesaid So likewise in the Resurrection of the dead yea more fully and clearly for such resemblances have not the lively Image of such greater things to come as yet are shadowed or resembled by them the same Body of man that dyed and was buried is raised and so every Soul shall have its own proper Body which it laid down or departed out of but not in the same quality or manner of being which is all one with the nature or kind of beings in these mens confusions But as we have shewed already it s the same body in a new or other quality or manner of being than that in which it was sown for it is sown a natural body it is raised a spiritual body c. as before yea Christ himself was crucified through and in weakness but he even the same he that dyed and was buried as before is shewed he was raised and liveth in the Power and Glory of God But it appears in these Questions and by their consounding the Seeds in the similitude with the bodies of men resembled by them and spoken of as sown in death and raised in the Resurrection especially if we compare these and the next Question with their discourses and writings on this subject that they are of no faith or judgement concerning any other Resurrection either of the just or unjust then such an imaginary Resurrection as is made or may be atrained in this life and that is not not a Resurrection of the man or dead body that cannot be except it first die and so not before its death nor is that in their imagination but of some Seeds sown in man distinct from the body of the man and so the resurrection of the just in their vain thought is when that they call the good Seed of which some of them dream Christ takes flesh in the man and sometimes they call it Christ and the light within when this gets above the other Seed and gets victory over the lusts in the man and that is the Resurrection to praise and to life likewise the resurrection of the unjust is nothing else with these Dreamers but the rising or getting above of the evil seed or seed of the Serpent in every or any man distinct from the man or Body of the man and when that rises it rises to condemnation and death that is according to their meaning that it may be condemned and judged to death by the other Seed yet can they not tell us who sew these Seeds and
when nor what Bodies they have before they die yea according to this their imagination the resurrection of the unjust is usually or often first contrary to the order of the Resurrection of the dead witnessed in the Scriptures of truth and there may be also many Resurrections of both the just and the unjust whereas the Scriptures mention but one a Resurrection not many Resurrections and that of the dead both of the just and unjust but every man in his own order but more need not here be added to shew the filthiness of this Satanical Dream the mention of it is enough with what hath been already said to shew the Dreamers to be denyers of the Resurrection of the Bodies of men that die in Adam that is after the natural or Bodily death and so of the Resurrection of the dead affirmed and shewed in the Scripture and to evince the truth of that Doctrine against all their endeavours to overthrow it yeâ— something further we shall add to this subject in answer to their next Question Quest 18. And whether the wicked upon whom after Death Judgement is come whose Souls are in Hell must afterward come out of Hell again to receive a second Judgement Ans This Question needs no other answer but the mention of that Scripture Rev. 20. 12 13. which speaking prophetically of the final and Eternal Judgement saith expresly That Death and Hell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judged every one according to his works ther 's death and hell delivering up their Prisoners to Judgement But because in this last Question especially they manifest their horrible Corruption and infidelity about the Doctrine of the Resurrection of the dead and Eternal Judgement and what Deriders and Scoffers of both they be even against the plainest assertions of Scripture as in the fifteenth Question they are of Christs personal coming the second time and that we may further bear witnesse to the Truth denyed and reproached by them for the good of others we shall here add something further in return to this Question also noting the palpable wickednesse of the intention and scope of it and the falshood and folly they are found in in their pursuit of such a wicked enterprise 1. The intention and scope of it is to fasten an error upon the Doctrine of the resurrection of the dead and their coming forth to an Eternal Judgement after death viz. That if so then the wicked must come out of hell again after sentenced and sent thither and thereby to give a total overthrow to that doctrine of the resurrection of the dead Bodies of men and their coming forth to Eternal judgement after the natural and bodily death and so to make God a lyar even in those his most plain and full manifestations of the Truth by the Son himself who having declared the powerful efficacy of his voice as now speaking from heaven in the glorious Gospel for making those dead in sins and trespasses to hear and to the quickening and preserving in life those that in hearing hear and said that hour is coming and now is John 5. 25. he biddeth them vers 28. not marvel at that for the hour is coming he saith not as before and now is but onely that it is coming and in leaving out that clause and now is having mentioned it in the former declaration he fully implies that the hour here spoken of in the 28. vers now is not but certainly cometh after the forementioned hour or time that was then begun even when God shall send us Jesus who before was preached to us as Acts 3. 20. with Mat. 24. 14. See the instruction to the living from the consideration of the future state of the dead by T. M. Junior pages 15 16 17 18 19. the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves in the dust of the earth and in the disappearing state of death shall hear his voice and shall come forth namely out of their graves they shall be wholly freed and made alive from the first death Hos 13. 14. 1 Cor. 15. 22. they that have done good shall come forth unto the Resurrection of life and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of Damnation for even death and hell shall deliver up the dead that are in them and they shall be judged every one according to his works as before is shewed This is that which the scope of this question is to deny and so consequently that Christ is risen from the dead for if the dead rise not then is not Christ risen and so in the denyal of this the Apostles whole Preaching is rendred vain and faith in Christ as Preached by them vain also yea they are therein proclamed false witnesses of God because they have testified of him that he raised up Christ whom he raised not up if so be the dead rise not 1 Cor. 15. 12. 15. 2. In their pursuit of this end they make lies and mistakes their desence that which they first suppose and take for granted as that in which their chief strength lies is neither granted by us nor so expressed in the Scripture but according to the import of it in their query very erroneous viz. that judgement is come upon the wicked after death now that by is come they mean is now already come as soon as they are dead and that by Judgement they mean the whole of the judgement is clear by their bringing it to disprove and deride a coming forth again to any other or further judgement and so it s very false for though judgement may come upon them in this life and their death is a terrible Judgement it proves so accidentally to them through their misimprovement of their time because it cuts them off from further space of repentance they being from thence sealed up and reserved as Prisoners in the Pit to the judgement of the great day of Christ yet neither is the one or the other that great and Eternal judgement unto which all the ungodly that continue such till death are reserved to be punished nor doth that seize on them till that day of judgement whence it is alwayes truly called the wrath to come and not that is already come upon any and so much is plain in that Heb. 9. 27. with vers 28. to which they would seem to allude especially if compared with other Scriptures see the text as it is appointed to men once to die he speaks of men indefinitely and so of the whole kind for all shall once dye though some shall not sleep in death but suffere a sudden change in which both death and resurrection shall be accomplished upon them in a moment But after this the judgement he saith not that then or as these that after this the judgement is come as if it were already come upon such of them as are dead or should come upon any that die before the rest at least of their
of Christ after the spirit as he was before the world was when as he was not come in the flesh or promised as one to come is the knowledge of him to Eternal Salvation Book p. 6 7 8. Answ p. 48 49 50. XV. That the Scriptures are not a medium of faith Book p. 18 Answ p. 58. 59. XVI That the light wherewith Christ lighteth men is not both natural and spiritual light or good Book p. 20. It seems he is not by their Doctrine the Authour and procurer of all good to men both natural and spiritual and so we are to thank him and God by him for both see our answer p. 61. XVII That they that speak not according to the Law and Testimony and whom we should not seek to for direction though they have no morning light in them yet have Christs evening or candle-light and so that by the Prophet Isaiahs counsel men should not listen to them that have but Christs evening or candle-light Isaiah 8 20. and yet the Apostle Peter by these mens Doctrine commended the Believers for taking heed to the evening or candle-light of Christ that was not the morning light 2 Pet. 1. 19 20. and as if Christs candle-light would lead men to speak otherwise than according to his Law and Testimony and yet is to be heeded to by men Answ p. 62. XVIII They deny the continuance and usefulnesse of the outward Ordinances of Baptisme and Lords Supper or eating Bread and Wine in remembrance of him till the end of the World in the Church of Christ in a manner deriding them Quest 19 20 21 22. XIX They intimately deny justification by a righteousnesse imputed to us contrary to Rom. 4. 5. 11. and maintain a justification by righteousnesse within which indeed in them is a meer unrighteousnesse as denying and evacuating the virtues of Christs sufferings in his own personal body and his sacrifice for us Quest 25. XX. That to endeavour to detect make manifest their delusions or the delusions of any others and to preserve people from them is a being impatient under raging against Gods judgements or else that it is no judgement of God to have delusions and Deluders sent amongst us to exercise and trouble us or that we ought not to contend against them Book p. 23. Answ 68 69. XXI That these Teachers whose hearers do sleight and neglect the truth preached by them and remain not withstanding it slothful formal covetous c. are false prophets by which conclusion they involve him who said he had laboured in vain and spent his strength for nought that would have gathered Jerusalems children often but yet they were not gathered even Christ himself Isa 49. 4 5. Mat. 23. 37. Yea and all the Prophets and Apostles of Christ who had many such hearers as if they also were false prophets Book p. 28 29. Answ p 7â— 74. XXII That Christ is a seed of God in men which in some wants Redemption and is burthened by corruption and desires to be free from the burthen of sin and alwayes to do his Fathers will and so hath not ceased from sin in them nor can do in all things his Fathers will but needs a power to reach to him where it is begotten to set him free redeem or raise him up in which power he arises in them that believe in the light for their Redemption Book p. 21. Answ 63 64 65. XXIII That Christ is first known as one without form or comâ—linesse and is in some a seed that yet suffers and in others reigns and is known to be Prince of peace so that he both suffers and reigns at once in divers persons Book p. 21 22. Answ p. 63 64 65. Such be the Doctrines discovered in their writings to us concerning the last two because therein is a discovery of that Imagination of theirs which they call Christ and which they preach as the true Christ or as James Naylor in his Book called Love to the Lost sayes is the seed of Abraham which Christ takes after the flesh We shall note some things here more particularly as 1. That by Flesh and Seed of Abraham after the flesh they mean not any natural Seed or Body of man but a certain seed or principle in every mans mind whether he know it or no which in some men is not fully able but desirous to follow after God and be free from sin they say not to free him in whom it is from sin but to be free it self from sin and yet this seed with them is the Christ the Word that was made flesh the true light that is in every man that comes into the World and that is manifested in men to take away their sins yet it cannot be said it seems of it that in it is no sin but for it desires to be free from sin and follow God but it seems doth not nor can yet in some men till raised by the power and when so manifested in men they are perfectly sinlesse 2. When they say this Seed or Christ is known in some men as suffering and burthened with corruption and desiring to be free from sin c. is not that the death of their Christ or do they not blaspheme the true Christ who is raised and made a quickening spirit while they represent him as one not able to do his Fathers will in some men and as one that needs Redemption and to be set free himself 3. When they say this seed the power reaches to where it is begotten and in the power it arises c. is not that the Resurrection of Christ with them for mans Redemption and Justification and so the believer in the light for redemption believes first in a dying Christ dying yet in him unlesse the light he believes in be another Christ or some thing besides Christ or rather their candle-light which is put out in the wicked is all one with their Christ suffering and making his grave with the wicked and their Christ Redeemed and rising in men is the light reviving as the morning light in them and then the man is redeemed and raised sinlesse too and so there is their and their Christs Resurrection together 4. And yet again mind their strange expressing of this Redemption and Resurrection of their Christ This Seed say they the Power reaches to where it is begotten and in the Power it ariseth What is this power that they say reaches to that Seed is it Christ or not Christ If it be not Christ then it seems their Christ crucified or burthened with corruption is not the power of God but needs another power to Redeem him that is not he no alas their Christ lies strugling under corruption as weak it seems as the poor believer himself that cryes out wretched man that I am who shall deliver me from the body of this Death So that what Paul said of himself as carnal and sold under sin is true of their Christ in some he
would rise and cannot he wants power he would do the will of the Father but cannot it seems till the power reach to him and so he may say too as Paul said To will is present with me but how to perform what I would I find not If the power be the Christ then how was Christ there where he lies burthened with corruption in man and making his grave with the wicked before he was begotten for the power is not begotten in all that Christ is in as a suffering seed and so he suffers before he be begotten and he by whom all things were made is in some men and yet his power not begotten which when it reaches to the seed it rises in it by degrees surely as men in whom he is give way to him 5. Yea here we may see the reigning of their Christ too and of his Saints with him in that they say in some he suffers and in others he reigns and is known to be Prince of Peace Is Christ divided then or doth some part of him in some suffer and other part reign in others it seems he hath neither done dying nor been at any time without his Reigning and his to Reign with him so that here we have the Mystery of their Religion 6. Nay what is this seeds rising but the Redemption of the body with them for as for the Redemption of any Natural body of man from the Natural death on them or judgement on them after that death they plainly deny it onely they talk of a seed shall rise and what is that but this seed that they say Christ takes after the flesh 7. Note here also how this their imagined Christ differs from our Christ the true Christ witnessed to and Preached in the Scriptures for their Rock is not as our Rock their Christ as our Christ themselves being Judges Deut. 32. 31. with their Book pag 10 our Rock is God in Christ and so our Lord Jesus Christ between whom and their Christ consider these differences 1. Our Christ is that Holy and Innocent man that was born of the Virgin Mary and lived in his personal body upon the Earth in the dayes of Augustus and Tiberius Cesars amongst the Jews And who in that body of his was crucified or nayled on a Tree died and was buried and rose again the third day and appeared in the same body to his Disciples after which he in that his body left the World ascending up from the Earth into the highest Heavens where he is Glorified with Gods own Self the fulnesse of the Godhead dwelling in him bodily He being God over all blessed for ever This is he whom these perverters deny and jears at as having the form and body of a Man and set up another thing in his stead that hath neither personal head hands nor feet flesh or bones proper to himself but an imaginary seed within every man desiring to follow after God and be free from sin which they call the Light the Christ the Power of God c. 2. Our Christ in a personal body of his own distinst from and out of our bodies bare our sins to and on the Tree or Crosse and so in that body died for our sins and in the same body rose for our justification that we believing in him might be justified by his Blood and accepted in his Righteousnesse and from thence have sin die in us and we dying to sin might live to Righteousnesse These plead for a Christ without any body of man distinct from others or out of them but a certain seed with an imaginary flesh and blood dying and beating sin in every man and rising where the Power reaches to it in men having no other body but what is in some men dying yea in every man in its time and in some men rising but not in all 3. Our Christ in his said body did once and but once in the last Ages of the World little more then one thousand six hundred years since suffer and die and rise again and can now therein die no more death hath no more dominion over him but he is alive for evermore in that body Glorified in the Heavens which these perverters deny But their Christ is alwayes suffering and so dying in some men and rising in others and reigning in some and so hath been alwayes dying and rising in mâ—n from the beginning of the World and so will be to the end their words plainly enough import as much 4. Our Christ by that his death once suffered and in his Resurrection in that his body that body once in sacrifice offered up to God hath overcome Death and the Devil slain the enmity and taken out of the way all that was contrary to us redeemed us from the curse of the Law obtained eternal Redemption for us and received the immeasurable fulness of the Spirit in the man and for men and is become Wisdom Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption being by virtue of all his foresaid sufferings and sacrifice the propitiation for the sins of the whole World of man kind the Mediator of God and men that all that believe in him may by Faith be reckoned after him and receive of the virtues hereof a first fruits of the Spirit making their Spirits liâ—e for Righteousnesse sake and giving them the hope of the fulness in Soul and Body at his coming again to be enjoyed by them for which they wait of all which these Perverters make nothing as James Naylor writ to a certain Gentleman by way of reproach Thou lookest to be saved by a man that dyed 1600. years ago this is that they scoff at giving out in their words that the death they mean of is not the death of a man in a Mortal body which was Natural and must have dyed they say though sin had never been But the death they mean is the death of the Seed or Christ that is alwayes dying and rising sometime in one and sometime in another which death and resurrection they extol and account the other but a shadow and figure of 5. Our Christ being in his glorified Bodie in the Heavens the fulnesse of the Godhead dwelling in him bodily by his spirit draws in many to believe in him of whom he in his Personal body is the Head and they the Members are one spiritual body or Corporation But these Perverters denying that their Christ hath any Personal body made but one Body in and of all and that the Seed sure for the Natural Bodies of themselves and others they say must die and never rise again and therefore sure they are in their account no part of Christs Body that must live ever and sure that Seed is no Personal Body but a conceited spirit that is within them with a conceited flesh and blood in them to This is the fulnesse of God they say whereof they are every one of them in this Seed the Members such an Idol was scarce ever in any Generation
forth his advice and thoughts which he sayes the Lord commanded not but he and speaks therein as one that thought he had the Spirit of God to guide him therein 1 Cor. 7 12 13 14 15 16 25 26 40. and when he wills Believers not to despise prophecyings he bids try all things and hold fast that that is good as implying that even in those that prophecy according to Truth as to the main fundamentals of it for others prophecyings are to be despised and rejected and counted accursed Gal. 1. 8 9. yet there may be possibly some things of mans thoughts and mistakes creep in and therefore from such we ought not to swallow down for Truth all that they say or conceive because they say it but to try what is said and accordingly as we see Truth in it receive it but their tryal of what T. M. said doth not discover it to be unsound onely they discover themselves void of judgement for may it be as well said Adam had no life in Paradise as no blood Is there no more said of his having life then of his having blood Is it not said he breathed into him the breath of life and he became a living Soul Is it not said God gave him commandment what to eat and what to forbear And he called the beasts by their names and slept and waked c. Are not these certain demonstrations that he had life But is there any such saying that demonstrates he had blood he said not of his wife this is flesh of my flesh and blood of my blood had it been so said T. M. would have been as far from supposing him to have had no blood then as now he is from supposing him to have had no life But how prove they that Adam had Blood Why Blood is the Life T. M. may answer it is so in the fallen state follows it it was so there Is there no difference between is now and was then They add he made of one blood all Nations but neither doth that cross T. Ms. apprehensions for there was no Nation nor man made of Adam before his fall he fell before he propagated and so by T. Ms. conception too had Blood for them to be made of before they were made of him and as to that question Whether we believe there was no blood left in Christs Body when crucified How should we certainly believe what is not revealed some judge it probable there was not because it is said after his side was pierced forthwith came there out Blood and water water is mentioned last as if the Blood might be all drained out till water followed it but we do not make that an Article of our Creed that it was so we find some good men that had the oversight of the Churches here in Queen Elizabeth and the following dayes did not dis-believe or deny such a conception for it is Printed amongst those Songs and Hymns set before or after the Psalms in the Complaint of a Sinner thus The Scripture doth declare no drop of blood in thee For that thou didst not spare to shed each drop for me T is probable had they thought it an error they would scarce have let it be printed there But this is of those things of which it use to be said quisquis suo sensu abundet let every man judge as he is perswaded in his own minde What they say of T. Ms. denying Christs Body to be a carnal Body and opposing hereto his own words and the Priests mentioning Priest Higginson and others affirming that Christ is in Heaven with a Carnal Body is erroneous too For though T. M. denyed his Body to be carnal as he did well to do yet that did not contradict his saying it is a Body that hath Flesh and Bones in it glorified for fleshly and carnal are not alwayes one and the same carneum and carnale differ as 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the Greek sure an heart of flesh that the Lord promises is not a carnal heart Ezek. 36. 26. What Priest Higginson and others affirmed we know not its probable they bely him and them as they stick not to do us That the Body of Christ is seen and known onely with that by which God is seen and known hath this unsavoury conception intimated in it that Christs Body is as spiritual and invisible to a bodily eye as God who is a Spirit and not a Body is But how then did Paul see him raised and could witnesse it if he be as invisible to the humane eye as God is Or if he see nothing that ever was dead and that he was seen of Paul as a person raised from the dead is plain in 1 Cor. 15. 4 5. 8. and 9. 1. sure Paul was not the last to whom Christ was seen by Faith and as spiritually demonstrated to the Soul no nor the last of those to whom Christ was so seen in those times Therefore when he sayes he was seen of him last he must needs mean it of his Body seen and seen by Bodily sight as the other Apostles see him by Bodily sight or else he must speak very inconsistently with himself which we may not grant In our pag. 12. I mistook in my hast and writ Job for Elihu which with my Pen I corrected too in divers Books before I gave them out after I minded it yet they declaim against this as if it was some hainous fault They say It was Elihu who was one that spake against Job for Job knew God when they that came against him did not And so they mention with an addition of a lye of their own that I pleaded for sin in it a Lettter to Elizabeth Vnderwood where I brought Eliphaz his words that say His Angels he charged with folly for which G. W. charges me J. H. because Eliphaz was one against whom Gods wrath was kindled and who spake not the thing of God that was right To which charges I say to the first of them First I confesse my self a man and subject to forgetfulness and oversights especially when in hast with businesse and so I did in my forgetfulnesse write the word Job for Elihu because the Book doth wholly bear the Title of Job But Secondly what great error was in that seeing Elihu was an holy man as well as Job and came not against Job otherwise then God himself after did to reprove him for some rash expressions which Job also afterward acknowledged his evil in and Job as much implyed his not knowing God in the sense Elihu speaks of in Job 42. 3. I have uttered sayes he that I understood not and things too wonderful for me and Elihu speaks as much of his knowing God as Job Job 32. 18. I am full of matter the spirit within me constraineth me c. and 33. 3. 6. my words shall be of the uprightness of my heart my lips shall utter knowledge clearly which he could
of the Holy Ghost as is foreshewed and so was the Lord from Heaven Heavenly even when he was made flesh in that body so prepared for him yet very Man made of the Seed of David after the flesh and therein partaker with us of flesh and blood and so like to natural fallen sinful men from birth to death in all things except sin This second man the last Adam because he so humbled himself in that body prepared for him to that purpose God hath raised from the dead and exalted with his Right hand and Glorified him with his own self in that body in which he bore our sins with the Glory he had with him as his onely begotten Son before the World was and therein actually made him in a full and Glorious sence a quickning Spirit to quicken and raise others as is fore-shew'n So that his being made a quickning Spirit no more Annihilates his risen and Glorified body having flesh and bones from being truly a living Spiritual and personal body then the Breath of Life did Annihilate the first Adams body yea without that body he is not the man Jesus Christ us he is affirmed to be that was so made whereas if he were onely a Spirit without the body of a man the assertion must have been contrariwise thus He that was the last Adam is now the quickening Spirit and not Adam But the Text serves not these mens turn for it saith The first man Adam was made a living Soul the last Adam who is also called the second man ver 47. was made a quickening Spirit Nor was or is there any other man made a quickening Spirit but He in that his own personal body onely the second and last Adam or publick man who being made perfect through sufferings offered up himself once for all through the offering up of which body of Christ we are sanctified Heb. 10. 5. 10. For it pleased the Father that in all things he might have the preheminence that in him all fulnesse should dwell even the fulnesse of the God-head bodily Col. â— 1â— 19. and 2. 9. T is of his fulnesse that his members receive and that of this measure which they here receive from him they have it in earthen vessels and though by what they receive from him and are made in him their spirit is made alive for Righteousnesse sake yet the body is still dead because of sin and so vile while in this Mortal state that is while not changed in the natural bodily Death that in the Resurrection it may be fashioned into the likenesse of his Glorious body John 1. 14. 16. 18. 2 Cor. 4. 7. Rom. 8. 10. 2 Col. 3. 3 4. Phil. 3. 2. The second part further shews their Ignorance and being void of judgement in the things about which they query as also their sensualnesse not having the Spirit 1. Their Ignorance and being void of Judgement appeares in their saying and yet c. Or notwithstanding that he is made a quickening Spirit yet his flesh and blood is so nigh to every true believer that his flesh is his meat indeed c. In this saying and yet they imply that his being made a quickening Spirit renders it more difficult to understand that his flesh should be meat indeed and his blood drink indeed whereas our Saviour when he had affirmed his flesh to be meat indeed and his blood to be drink indeed and some thought it a hard or difficult saying John 6. 55. 60 c That he might demonstrate and make it more easie to their understandings he saith what and if ye shall see the Son of Man ascend up where he was before It is the Spirit that quickeneth the flesh profiteth nothing the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are Life in all which he signifies as is more fully opened by the Apostles after his having finished the works the Father gave him to do on the Earth that even the flesh of Christ as in its mortal state and so all his abasement and sufferings for us in the flesh could not have profited us and so not have been bread of life for us if he in the same body of his flesh the Son of Man had not risen from the dead ascended and offered up himself to his Father in and by the Power of the Eternal Spirit according to that 1 Cor. 15. If Christ had not risen from the dead even Jesus Christ of the seed of David after the flesh that was dead and buried we had been yet in our sins and the Preaching of him and Faith in him had been vain But he being in due time by means of his once suffering in the flesh for sins quickened raised from the dead and Glorified by the Power of the Eternall Spirit and so made a quickening Spirit He therefore in that body of his flesh which saw no corruption and so his once suffering in the flesh for sin by means of which he was so Glorified is spiritual meat indeed the Bread of Life and was vertually so before but is now fully made so for us and also manifested so to us by that Spirit that raised him from the dead breathing in and present with the Preaching of his Crosse in which Preaching the preciousnesse of his Crosse is commended in this that he that suffered is raised and Glorified in the same body and now appearing in the presence of God for us by vertue of which it is made in the Preaching of it Bread of Life indeed and so his words declaring him that once suffered in the flesh to be so raised and glorified as aforesaid are Spirit and life as also Rom. 10. 9. These men therefore are of no Judgement concerning the Faith forasmuch as that which our Saviour gives as the Reason why his flesh is meat indeed and his Blood drink indeed namely that God would give him Glory as the fruit of it they imply at least as a thing rendering it more hard to be understood yea secretly they imply it as a reason against the understanding Christs flesh and Christs blood that is meat indeed and drink indeed according to the plain import of his words And so in this implication they signifie not onely as we have noted of them upon the first part of this question that in his being made a quickning Spirit they fancy a nullifying of the real being of that Body of his flesh in which they grant he once suffered but also that by his flesh and his blood which is meat and drink indeed they mean not that flesh once given for the life of the World nor that blood once shed for the Remission of sins or his once suffering in the flesh to the sheding of his blood as also more plainly appears in their next question 2. Their sensuality not having the Spirit appeares at least if we consider their sence of its being nigh in their saying that the flesh and blood of Christ is so nigh to
given and broken for us and so alwayes to be remembered and fed upon by us Luke 22. 19. 1 Cor. 11 24. John 6. 5â— Again by his Blood as distinguished from his flesh is meant that blood of his Crosse which was shed for us for the Remission of sins Col â— 14. 20. Mat. 26. 28. Not only nor so directly his being sometime partakers of material and mortal blood in that body of his flesh that is included in the forementioned sence of his flesh as distinguished from his blood and when mentioned together with it such blood being in and with his flesh all the dayes of his mortallity untill his death in which it was so fully shed forth and powered out that water followed but by his blood as distinct from his flesh is directly meant his humbling himself to that death in the finishing of his sufferings wherein that blood in which was his natural life in the flesh as of man was shed and so therein his Soul or Life in the flesh powered out yeilded up and laid down for our sins that were caused to meet together upon him that so he might by means of that his death in the flesh take his Life again in the Power of God and live for ever in the Glory of his Father even in that raised body of his flesh And this is very usual in the Scripture by blood to signifie the shedding of blood to Death or the natural and bodily death by any other means so Abels death by Cain called his blood Gen. 4. 10. with Heb. 12. 24. So Naboths death by stoning called his blood 2 Kings 9. 2â— generally the Martyrdom and death of the Servants of God for his sake 2 Kings 9. 7. Deut. 32. 43. Psal 72. 14. with Psal 116. 15. Yea the natural or bodily Death however it come on a man is called his blood Psal 30. 9. Heb. 12. 4. So also that by Christs own blood the blood of his Crosse by which peace was made Redemption obtained and so by which he entered into Heaven it self and so by the Spirituall sprinkling of which in the Preaching of the Crosse he purgeth the conscience is meant his Death his shedding of his blood his once suffiring even to the death of the Crosse his being put to death in the flesh see it in the foreceited Scriptures Col. 1. 14 20. Mat. 26. 28. with Phil. 2. 8. 1 Pet. 2. 24 and 3. 18. so also in Heb 9. 2. 14. with ver 15 16. 22. 26. Again Secondly By the distinct mention of his flesh and blood is signified some distinct considerations of the ends and powerfull efficacies of his own suffering in that body of his flesh for our sins As 1. For making peace and atonement with God for our sins in which we have all sinned in the disobedience of one and in which we are from thence become altogether filthy and as such justly banished and dead at Law and so it s said he gave his flesh for the life of the World and by suffering the judgement of this World and being made a Curse for us he hath abolished death obtained a Redemption and release of mankinde from under the power of that judgement that came on all in and by the first man Adam and so from the curse of the Law to be under his dispose and judgement by whom the Kingdom of God is brought unto us that through him we might be saved As the offence of one was unto all to condemnation so the Righteousnesse of one in laying down his Life that he might take it again is unto all to Justification of Life from under the power of the first death and banishment that they may not perish therein or be held out from God thereby but that they might live to him that dyed for them and rose again Rom. 5. 18. 2 Cor. 5. 1â— 15. 19. Col. 1. 20. John 6. 51. and 12. 31 32. Gal. 3. 13. 11. His shedding of his blood laying down his Life or powering out his Soul unto death for our sins was also to obtaine into himself for us a better life yea better then that we lost in the first Adam even Eternal Life Yea all fulnesse of all things pertaining to life and Godlinesse even the fulnesse of the Godhead bodily that of his fulnesse we might receive And so the immeasurable fulnesse of that Holy and Eternal Spirit to rest upon him in that body in which he so suffered that he should Teach sinners in the way and guide the meek in Judgement Yea further he hath by his blood or by means of that his death which was for the Redemption of the Transgressions under the first Testament obtained plentious and Eternal Redemption even the forgivenesse of such sins as are after the similitude of Adams transgression he hath received power in the name of the Father and as the fruit of his sufferings to take away such sins by his dayly appearing in the presence of God for us and so all such gifts as may serve for the good of the Rebellious while it is to day for forbearing and renewing mercies to them that yet through him they might be saved and that he might be just and the Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus even from such sins yea from all things from which they could not be justified by the Law of Moses And so he is a Saviour from the wrath to come being now by means of his death a Mediator and propitiation for such sins as deserve it John 17. 4 5. 1 John 5. 11. Heb. 9. 12. Col. 1. 14. 19. and 2. 9. Acts 2. 33. Psal 68. 18 19. with Ephes 4. 8. 10. Heb. 9. 15. 1 Thes 1. 10. 1 John 2. 2. He was bruised wounded and put to death in the body of his flesh for our transgressions that through death he might abolish death in his Resurrection and make such peace and healing for us that through him we might be delivered and saved that were all our life time through fear of death subject to bondage Yea therefore also he shed his blood and powered out his Soul unto death that he might by vertue thereof obtaine and receive into himself a better even Eternal life for us with all such gifts for men yea for the Rebellious also as was needful that yet while it is to day they might be brought back to God and that he might be able to save to the utmost them that come to God by him 2. This his flesh and his blood was evidenced to be meat indeed and drink indeed for men spiritually to feed upon by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead and his offering up his spotlesse body a Ransom or price of Redemption once for all as being made perfect through sufferings and his being accepted and set down on the Right hand of God and Glorified with the Fathers own self Immeasurebly filled with all gifts in the man for men as before we have shewed all as the fruit of
the spirit detained in prison in the first Death this is that unquenchable fire ever burning and that can never be quenched no not to them that are cast into it the raised bodies of men being in that equal to the evil angels they can never more cease to be or be ever free from sencible Suffering nor will the Worm in their Spirits ever cease tormenting This is that lake of fire into which the first Death and Hell shall be cast when they have delivered up all the dead that was in them and so shall be destroyed and swallowed up in this that shall remain and burn on all the ungodly for ever see for this and who they are and when they shall be cast into it Rev. 20. 11. 15. and 21. 8. Mat. 25. 41. 46 with Mark 9. 43 48. so that out of this after men are in it here is no deliverance in any sence but none are in this until they be brought forth of their graves and delivered up by Death and Hell as forementioned except those that at his appearing shall be taken and cast alive into that lake of fire without being detained any time in prison as the rest are Rev. 19 20. with chap. 20. 10. Now had these men understood the Scripture and so these things as there distinguished and set forth they would not have counted it at all absurd that souls in Hell bodies in dust and spirits in prison should come forth again to receive their final judgement yea had they in the least believed God to be true in his sayings they would not have dared so plainly to have contradicted and blasphemed them though they could not have understood them seeing the Holy Ghost speaketh expresly of the Final and Eternal Judgement when all the dead that have died in their sins from the beginning of the World to the latter end of it shall at once be raised and brought forth to that judgement and there and to that faith Death and Hell delivered up the dead which were in them But they have clearly shewed themselves to be of that sort that deny the Resurrection of the dead and the Eternal Judgement of all men witnessed in the Scripture as yet to come and to be passed and executed upon them by that man Christ Jesus whom God hath ordained to judge the world in Righteousnes whereof he hath given assurance unto all men in that he hath raised him from the dead Question 19. Whether the receiving Bread and Wine to shew the Lords death be to continue an Ordinance in the Church till the end of the World yea or nay Answ This and the three following questions aptly follow the former to a further discovery of their Antichristian Spirit For As Jesus Christ having ascended on high and received gifts in the man hath given gifts unto men and therein set in the Church First Apostles that were chosen witnesses of his personal body in which he the Word was made flesh and humbled himself unto the death of the Cross as now raised from the dead and received up into glory having finished the works the Father gave him to do in that body on the earth that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name unto all Nations and so as wise Master builders layers of the foundation Doctrinally As likewise he hath given and appointed to be still in continual exercise a gift and office inferior to the Apostles for instructing in and opening out of the Scriptures of the Prophets and Apostles the foundation as already laid by them in the word of the beginning of Christ and for directing to and building on that foundation in witnessing him as already come in the flesh and having finished the works as aforesaid and so for Doctrinal shewing forth the Lords death and the pretiousnesse thereof with the Father for us and in his Name to us and to manifest the goodnesse and righteousnesse of God therein Luke 24. 44. 48. John 17. 18. 20. c. 1 John 1. 1. 5 Rom. 1. 1. 5 and 16. 25 26. 1 Cor. 3. 10. 11. Secondarily Prophets or the gift and office of prophesie to shew distinctly out of the Scriptures and from the foundation as already laid the things to come even the Resurrection of the dead and Eternal Judgement and so the grace and glory to be brought to us at the glorious appearing of Christ from Heaven for encouragement to look to him and for the edification and comfort of those that wait for him which gift office was primely given to the Apostles and is also included in that inferior gift office forementioned as given to believers since and the choise to be desired by them whence that is called prophesying 1 Cor. 14 1. 3 and 12. 28. which also is called Ephes 4 11. prophecying and evangelizing John 15. 26 27 and 16 13 14 Titus 2. 11. 13 14 15. Thirdly Teachers or the gift of teaching for applying instructing and directing to the usefulness of both namely of that which he hath already done and is become for us in himself the ground of all the Redemption already wrought and obtained by his Blood and the infinite and abiding efficacy of it in what he is now doing and of that Salvation ready to be revealed in the last time as the end of all from both together to teach Transgressors the way that sinners may be converted to him and to lead Believers into all truth teaching them that denying ungodlinesse and worldly lust they should live soberly righteously and godly in this present world looking for that blessed hope and the Glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ Tit. 2. 13 12 13. 1 Pet. 1. 10. 14. c. John 16. 8. 14. So on the other hand Anti-christ that was to come in these last dayes and is already come he hath his contrary gifts and work yet coming in the name of Christ and as Apostles and Prophets and Teachers of Christ but in a directly opposite and contrary strain though subtilly and with hidden things of dishonesty for such are false Apostles deceitful Workers c. They to prepare and make way for their false Apostolizing in which they lift up something else in the name and place of Christ in respect of what he hath already done and is become in himself for us and for their false prophecying in which they magnifie something else in the name and place of him in respect of what he will do in his second and glorious appearing and for their false Teaching in which they direct to another Light and Teacher and teach otherwise not consenting to sound words even the Words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Doctrine according to goodlinesse to this purpose we say they seek with design in the first place to cast him down from his excellency in his person and works and to render his Ordinances contemptible and that they may effectually pull down the house with both their hands as
they render the knowledge of him as Preached by the Apostles and witnessed in the Ordinances as delivered by them fleshly and carnal and so to be let go for the other Surely Antichrist doth not onely figure forth but reveale himself in them by these Queries as may be seen in the light 21. Query And how must the life of Christ be shown forth And when If people must receive Bread and Wine as a continuing Ordinance in this life alwayes to shew forth the death of Christ Answ In the right shewing forth the Lords death the life of Christ is also acknowledged and shew'n forth For therein we shew not forth a dead Christ or Death simply but the Lords death that is as is shewed before the death of him who by means of that his death being raised from the dead in the Glory of the Father and made both Lord and Christ in that body in which he died and was buried is alive for evermore And so that death by which Peace was made and Redemption and life obtained in and by him for us That with him it might be given to us and in receiving him be received by us as he is received that is now by Faith And in the first fruits of those Spirituall blessings we are now blest within him and the hope of the fulnesse with the Redemption of the body at his second coming and so it is that death the excellency and preciousnesse of which is shewed in the testification of the glory God hath given him in his Resurrection and exaltation as the fruit of it that our faith and hope might be in God And so that of which and the preciousnesse thereof he now liveth to be an Apostle to us as likewise by vertue of which he appeares in the presence of God an High Priestâ— for us and therefore also is able to save to the utmost them that come to God by him And so in the right shewing forth the Lords death all this is acknowledged and shewed forth as that in which his death is commended as therefore infinitely worthy to be remembred and the Grace and Glory of God therein displayed And so in being Spiritually baptised into his death into the understanding and acknowledgement of it as declared in the Gospel Therein a man is also risen with him through faith of the operation of God and comes to prove the power of his Resurrection in such fellowship of his sufferings quickening to new and lively hope and affections by the Resurrection of Christ from the dead Col. 2. 1â— Phil. 3. 10. 1 Pet. 1. 1. 3. c. And is made a powerful Saviour of Christ to others either of life unto Life or of death unto Death For the Preaching or shewing forth the Crosse of Christ in which the whole Gospel of Christ the Wisdom of God the Power of God is preached that is to them that perish foolishnesse but to us that are saved it is the Power of God Whence the Apostled said God forbid that I should glory in any thing save in the Crosse of Christ by whom the World is crucified to me and I to the World yea he determined not to know any thing in his Preaching among believers but Jesus Christ and him crucified 1 Cor. 1. 18. 23 24. â— 2 with Gal 6. 14. And he had then the mind of Christ 1 Cor. 2. 16. and was therein rejoycing in and shewing forth the Life of Christ Gal. 2. 19 20. holding forth not a Ministration of death but of Spirit and Life 2 Cor. 3. 1 John 1. But this must needs be an offence and stumbling block to them who deny the abiding virtue and effecatious preciousnesse for others of that death once finished in that his own body and believe not his being raised and continuing for ever in the same body in which he died But set up an Idol in the name and place of him that is often dying rising and offering it self and in divers bodies For they cannot shew forth the death and life of their Immaginary Christ in one and the same demonstration because when he rises or is risen in them its another and not the same body that died which rises or is risen 22. Query What is your ground for sprinkling the Children of them you count Believers Have you ever a command from God or evident example for it if you have shew it Answ This Question is laid as a snare for such as differ from us in the Ordinance of Baptising with water in the Name of Christ as to the persons that may be baptized and the manner of baptising And yet agree with us in the acknowledgement of the Lords body and of the infinite Grace and abiding Vertue of his first appearing therein and the hope of his second and of the Resurrection of the dead and Eternal Judgment at his appearing to his Kingdom that so by seeming to take their part against us in this about baptisme they may catch them in their net For why else do they not as well question our grounds for the continuance of this Ordinance of Baptising with water in his Name as they have done that of the Lords Supper seeing it is notoriously known they make no more account of the one then of the other We shall therefore here say the lesse to this Hypocritical question But if any desire to understand the grounds of our practice in that they may see them at large shewed by the Scriptures in Treatises made publick the one by Joh. Horn called Considerations of Infant Baptism The other by Tho. Moor senior called A brief discourse about Baptism And if any that own the great things of the Doctrine of Christ but different from us in such lighter things will propound their distractions or reasons against our practice in answer to what is made publick or they have ours in manuscript which yet they have not done or otherwise we shall be ready to answer them though we think it not expedient here to speak to those things in which they differ from us who yet own the same Lord Jesus with us and waite for his Glorious appearance from Heaven And though differing from us in the manner or outward form of an Ordinance c. Yet do it to the same Lord whom we will neither judge nor dispise nor reckon them amongst or joyn them with such Enemies of the Crosse of Christ as prvily deny the Lord that bought them and dispise both his sayings and Ordinances 2. Why demand they a command from God or evident example for what we do in this seeing they contemn both in the former and in scorn reject the Ordinance it self as unprofitable We might answer this demand as our Saviour answers a like Question Mat. 21. 23 24 25. When they demanded of our Saviour by what Authority he did those things He answered and said unto them I also will aske you one thing which if ye tell me I likewise will tell you by what