Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n
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A05036
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A collection of certain letters and conferences lately passed betvvixt certaine preachers & tvvo prisoners in the Fleet
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Barrow, Henry, 1550?-1593.; Greenwood, John, d. 1593.
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1590
(1590)
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STC 1518.5; ESTC S121987
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59,993
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78
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is an instruction of others so that yt cannot be called the Lords prayââ¦r BARTLET But this troubleth vs that you hold yt not lawfull to say oueâ⦠those wordes in prayer c. GREN. You see that we denie no man to vse the verie wordes all oâ⦠anie part of them in prayer by explication or application according to our present occasions as anie other Scripture COOP. What is the meaning of that explication or application GREN. Explication application is meant thus as when I desire that the Pope such Ministers of poperie might be suppressed I say Do this Lord for th'aduancement of thy kingdome Let thy Kingdome come c. And without this explication or application to say ouer the vvhole vvordes conteyning all things that can be praid were but abuse of that forme of prayer seing they that so praye cannot vnderstand what he that is the moââ¦th of all asketh for we cannot pray for all thing at once but that which is within the compasse of our faith otherwise yt is but babling COOP. For the whole Church yt may be said ouer as a praier GREN. All praier must be of faith for such things as are within our knowledge and as we knowe the Church to be in present neede of and those things to be particularly craued at GODS hand els we do but babble as the papists do COOP. I graÌt that al our praiers ought to be of faith expressing our present necessities Yet ought we euerie day to say ouer the Lords praier for the whole Church GREN. This is popish Doctrine such praier were superstitious babling c. The righteous meâ⦠they shall iudge them after the maner of ãâã and after the maner of murtherers for they are harlots and bloââ¦d is in thier bââ¦nds Ezek. 23. 45. Before we can iudge the false Church it is expedient that we discerne the true Church which is thus described in the scriptures THe true planted and rightlie established Church of CHRIST is a companie of Faithfull people seperated from the vnbeleuers and heathen of the land gathered in the name of CHRIST whome they truelie worship and redily obey as thier only King Priest and Prophet ioyned together as members of one bodie ordered and gouerned by such officers and lawes as CHRIST in his last will and Testament hath therevnto ordeyned all and each one of them standing in and for thier ChristiaÌ libertie to practise whatsoener God hath coÌmaunded reuealed vnto them in his holie word within the limites of their callings executing the lordes iudgements against all trangressió and disobedience which ariseth among them and cutting it off accordinglie by the power which thier lord and King CHRIST IESVS hath comitted vnto them Now who so shall measure thies parish assemblies as they generally stand in England by this rule shall euidently finde them in euerie point so transgressing and defectiue as he that hath eyes to see or but a will to search cannot be deceaued or mistake these parish Churches for the true churches of Christ. Thies parishes consisting of a company of prophane ignorant people gathered by the sounde of a Bell in the name of Antichrist worshipping God after a false Idolatrous maner denying all obedience vnto CHRIST in his 3. offices as thier only King Priest and Prophet lyuing in disorder among themselues standing in confusion being disordered and ouerruled by such lawes officers as the Pope left and not as CHRIST left standing in bondage to the Romiââ¦h courts cannons hauing no power to execute the lordes iudgements or to redresse the least sinne or transgression amongst them-selues but are driuen to the Comissaries Courts and so cast out SATAN by the power of SATAN 1. Thier Churches consiste not of a company of faithfull people but of a multitude of prophane people Therefore they are not the true Church 2. They haue made no seperation from the heathen of the land but all are receiued reteyned in the bozome of thier Churches Therefore c. 3. They are not gathered in the name of Christ but in the name of Antichrist whom they obey as shall afterward appeare Therefor c. 4. They worship not God truelie but after a false and Idolatrous maner as witnesseth thier popish leiturgie thier stinted booke of ââ¦hier comon prayer Therfore c. â⦠They receiue not nor obey not Christ as thier King Priest Prophet Therefore c. Not as thier King reiecting his gouernment and receiuing ââ¦tanding vuder the Antichristââ¦a yoake of thier popiââ¦h gouernment Not as thier Priest sacraligiously prophaning his name with ââ¦hier Idolatrie prostituting his blood and making him a priest ââ¦nd sacrifice to Infidells and the most wicked offenders Not as thier Prophet giuing no obedience to his worde vsing ãâã as a mantill to couer thier sinne rather then as a rule whereby ãâã direct thier liues not seeking a true ministrie but mainteyââ¦ing a false of which sorte the wholl ministrie of the land is ââ¦hich are permitted to teach in thier publike places to whome ââ¦ey giue eare Thier people are not kint togeather as members each of other in one congregation but both roue and goe assemble departe at thier pleasure when they will whether they will as they will themselues As also liue in continuall disorder 7 Thies parishes are not ordered and gouerned by such officers as Christ hath appointed to his Church They haue no true Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Releeuers But insteade of thies they remaine most seruilely sââ¦biect to the Antichristian gouernmeÌt of thier popish Arch-bishops Bishops Chauncellors Archdeacons Deââ¦nes Commissaries Doctors Proctors Aduocats Notaries Regesters Purseuants Cursetors Sumners c. And from the Apostoliââ¦all seat of the Biââ¦hops they receue as AntechristiaÌ false a ministrie as thier ãâã ãâã ãâã hirelings lecturers mercenarie preachers c. which togeither with this people stand bounde and subiect to thies Bishops and thier popish courts of high commission of faculties of Archââ¦es of prerogatiue of delegaââ¦s of thier CoÌmissaries c. Therefore c. 8 Thiââ¦s assemblies are not ruled by th'olde and newe Testament but by the Cannons Iniunctions and decrees of thiââ¦s Antichristian and popish courts Therefore c. 9 Thies people stand not in and for thier Christian lybertie but all of them remaine in bondage to thies Aegyptian and Babilonish yoakes yeilding obedience vnto thies courts and thier Cannons Therââ¦fore c. 10 Thies assemblies haue not the power which Christ hath gââ¦uen vnto his Church vnto the worlds end and all the powers in earth and hell cannot take from them viz. to binde loose and to refoââ¦me things that are amisse but are driuen to the Comissary Courts Therfore c. 11 Thies asseÌblies cast out Satan by the power of Satan namely by thies Impes of Antichrist the Bishops Commissaryes and priests Therefore they are not for all thââ¦er reasons seuerall ioââ¦ned cannot be held in anie Christian iudgement the true Churches of Christ. Infinite were the reasons which from thies seuerall heades as likewise from thier particuler transgressions defaults might be drawne But the beâ⦠Argument to confute and cut downe all this trumprie at once is according to the commandements of God to perserue our bodies and soules free from thies abhominations by a speedie seperation and withdrawing our selues from amongst them and to confute their lââ¦st and only Argument whereby they vpholde their ruinous kingdome namely their penall lawe by Christian patience and an vpright godlie life Herâ⦠is the patience of the saints here are they that kepe the coÌmaundements of God and the faith of Iesus Reuel 14. 12. He that ouercometh shalbe clothed in vvhite aray and I vvill not put out his name out of the booke of life but I vvill confesse ââ¦is name before my father and before his Angells Reuel 3. 5. THESE Arguments were more then a yeare an halfe since deliuered to Mr. CARTVVRIGHT M r. TRAVERS M r. CHARKE and M r. FLOYDE which still remaine vpon them vnanswered FINIS Lyes 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10 11 12 13 14 2. Scriptures in steade of Lyes Rom. 18. 1 Rom. 12. 6. 7. 8. 1. Cor. 12. entier Mat. 20. 25 26. Luke 12. 14 Act. 20. 29 Mat. 18. 17. Danyââ¦l 11. 36. c. 2. Thes. 2. 4. Iohn 3. 29. Cam 8. 12. Iohn 13. 13. 1. Pââ¦t 5. 4. 1. Cor. 8. 6. Reu. 13. 1. Reu. 1. 1â⦠c. Iames 5. 12. Psal. 74. Dan. 7. 24. Reu. 9. Gal. 1. 6. 7. 8. Mat. 15. 9. 1. Ioh. 4. 3. Mat. 24. 15 Reuel 13. 17. 3. 4. 5. 6. 8. 9. 10. Iude. 11. 2. Peâ⦠â⦠15 1. Tim. 6. 5. Iohn 10. 12. 13. ãâã â⦠14. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. Reu. 16. ââ¦0 Reu. 19. 2â⦠1. 2. 3. 4. â⦠6. 7. 8. 1. 2. 3. 5. 6. 1 ââ¦ere 31. 34. Act. 10. 43 Act. 15. 9. â⦠Cor. 1. 2. 2 Isay. 65. 11 12. Leu. 20. 24 Iere. 15. 19. Ezââ¦k 16. 25 Eze. 23. 44 Iââ¦h 15. 1. 9. 2 Cor. 6. 14 3 Isay. 11. 10 12. Iohâ⦠12. 32 Mat. 18. 20 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5 4 Deuâ⦠5. 8. 1 Cor. 10. 28 Reuel 21. 8 5 Deut. 18. 15 Isay. 42. 1. Mat. 17. 5. Act. 3. 22. â⦠Io. 4. 3. Mal. 1. 6. Luk. 19. 27 Iohn 3. 3 Ezek. 16 17. 19. and 44. 7. Lam. 1. 10. Deââ¦t 13. 3. Mat 7. 15 and 15. 14. Rom. 16. 17 2. Tim. 3. 5. 2 Iohn 10. Iere. 23. 29 6 1 Cor. 12. 12 1 Pet. 2. 4. 5 Rom. 12. 5 7 Rom. 12. 8. Ephes. 4. 11. Psal. 2. 2. 3. Lââ¦k 19. 14. 8 1 Tim. 6 13 14. Ephes. 4. 11 12. 1 Cor. 14. 37 Heb. 12. 28. 9 Ioââ¦n 8. 36. Gal. 4. 26 1. Pet. 2. 9. 10 Psal. 14 9. 9 Isay. 45. 17. Maâ⦠18. 17. Luk 10. 19 1. Coâ⦠5. 4. 2 Cor. 10. 4 5. 6. ãâã ãâã 12. 25.
vve haue no Elderâ⦠as yet GREEN The Church is neuer without the power to excommunicate 5 EGER. Our Pastors only now vvant some Censurers BAR. The leaââ¦t member of the Church that is a CoÌmunicant hath as much interest in all the censures of the Church as the Pastor haue equall power according to the rules of the word to censure the Pastor for errour or transgression as the Pastor hath to ââ¦ensure them To M r. EGERTON delyuer this Almightie Gââ¦d vvhose Spirit is one and ioyneth in one all his elect vââ¦ssells in his good tyme bringing them forth from darkââ¦es to light gyââ¦e you vs ââ¦o be of one mynde of one iudgment in the trueth to the glory of his owne name our reioycing in his mereyes for euer and the present conuerââ¦ion of manie to the ââ¦bedience of CHRIST SEing it hath pleased God after our long imprisonment once of late to send you vnto vs by what meanes or to what further purpose we yet know not to giue vs a beginning ââ¦n entrance into the discussing of his trueth by some kinde of conference which because it was not with that harmonye that it may please God to effect if your heart as ours be set to know his will and to proceede by one rule euen the rule of his authenticall TestameÌt We are moued to write vnto you rather by your modest honest sober behauiour shewed to vs the Lords most vnworthie witnesses then for anie procurement of peace to our selues For most of all we desire your saluation and with all the good of manie by the measure of spirituall guyftes gyuen you and as we trust you will bestow them to the furtherance of his Church Yet in your last conference to speake the trueth we found your spirit in no louing consent to the trueth but dangerouslie corrupted or at least set to oppose with poysoned distinctions by vaine philosophie yea against that trueth your self would not insist to denie whether to trye our streÌgth or to abuse the hearers or for endangering your self Yet against al these PAVL saith we cannot anie thing against the truth but for the truth We haue since often merueiled we heard no more from you or of your estate which theÌ was made manifest to be without promise whiles you exercise a ministeriall function vnder ANTICHRIST in a false office vnto a confuse assembliâ⦠of all sorts of people one with the world Wherevppon hearing no further yet of you we thought it good in tender care of your saluation for the aduancement of the Lords trueth to shew you so neere as our fraile memories could collect the summe of such Arguments or Positions Answers as passed betwene vs hauing set downe nothing but that wherof we haue the positioÌs to shew vnder wryting at that present honest witnesses to testifie our vprightnes herein And least you should otherwise conceiue that we should some wayes iniurie you we haue sent you a Copie to pervse and if you make yet anie other aââ¦swere to our Assertions then there is conteyned we freely gyue you libertie so to do But cheiflie the end of our wryting is to stirr you vp not to leane the matter thus coÌsidering the seriousnes therof but eyther yeild thervnto or procure some more large and free place time to make our mynds plaine Faith open one to another that the truth may appeare and they that depart from the same be knowen And the same vve vvryte vnto you herein we hereby offer to all the rest of your fellow Ministers our hearts as the Lord knoweth being opeÌ to all men to their good the glory of our GOD the father of our Lord IESVS CHRIST only the Lord delyuer vs from vnreasonable men and suppresse all his aduersaries and opposers against his glorious truth Amen Most desirous of your fellowship in the Faith of Christ. HENRY BARROVV IHON GREENVVOOD To M r. BARROVV and M r. GREENVVOOD The Lord Iesus open oââ¦r eyes to ââ¦ee the truth sanctifie our tongues ãâã penââ¦es to declare the same Ireceyued a Letter from you also a Conference in writing Touching your Letter this I answere First for those poysoned distinctions you mentioÌ if you had named them I hope no poyson would haue appeared in them except it had come from the contagion of your owne Spirits Secondly for vaine Philosophie if you meane therby for other I remember none that help which GOD hath lent vs by Logicke to reason breiflie and plainly you do but as Brownâ⦠hath done whose braynlesse reasons to proââ¦e the vanââ¦tie therof are not only easie to be answered by other men but also abundantly confuted by his owne practise both in speach writing Touching your feined Conference this I say I finde in it some things wanting that were spoken manie things expressed that were neuer spoken no not ymagined on my behalf most things that were spoken peruerted Finally I finde it so full of partialitie so voyd of vpright true dealing and so far out of order that I haue neither leasure muchlesse anie luââ¦t to deale with it And if you shall proceede to gyue out Copies I shalbe readye to disclayme you wheresoeââ¦er I come not only for men voyde of pietie but euen of ciuile honestie also Now concerning a free conference I haue neither powre nor will to performe it my reasons I reserue ãâã further oportunitie But if you will deale with me do this send me vnder your hand some 6. or 7. or as you thinke good for the nomber of your cheif reasons whie you refuse to come to our publique assemblies breiflie plainly concluded and I will by the help of GOD as my leisure shal serue set you downe my answere in the like sort vnder my owne hand with reasons why you ought to come This course if you like I will deale with you as I may otherwise I will not meddle Written the 14. Aprill 1590. Written by him that not only desireth your good in the Lord but also is ready by anie peaceable christiaÌ course of proceeding to furder the same I EGERTON so I write To Mr. EGERTON MOre Grace feare of GOD vnto you This your replie vnto our Letter we haue receiued read with litle comforte perceiuing therby euen that smale sparke of hope which began to appeare in you to be vtterly extinct the bellowes burnt the drosse wil not be purged froÌ the siluer that there might proceed a vessell to the Fyner so that the Founder should melt in vaine where the Lord hath not made choise of the mettall Greatly sorie we are to behold your fââ¦arefull estate who not being able to approue the ministrie you exercise by the word of God yet to your owne furder iudgmeÌt the seducing of manie soules continue to plead for practize the same for the feare of men the loue of the world to auoide persecution submitting your self your whole church ministrie Doctrines vnto the pro