they please Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians c. have all for their Rule of faith Scripture which each of them interprets in a different sense Luther for the Real Protestants for the Figurative Presence Protestants for Episcopacy Presbyterians against it and so of others and tho each esteems his own sense to be the best yet none is so bold as to say the others may not be saved in their own sense of it or deny them to be true Children of the Reformation nay that Venerable Synod of Charenton as I quoted aboue has declared that the Lutherans tho opposit to them in their chief Tenets are their beloved Brethren and have nothing Idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of Divin worship the fundamental reason of all this is that our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it Ismael I grant all your discourse as to this particular for its certain Lutherans will not admit Scripture as interpreted by Protestants but as interpreted by themselves and so of each other Congregation Isaac If you admit our Rule is Scripture as each vnderstands it then you must grant that our Doctrin of the Reformation is whateuer Doctrin each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture and from this it appears plainly that my Principle wherat you bogl'd is true That whateuer Doctrin is professed by any of our Congregations Synods Parliaments Drs. or particular Dr. of our Reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation which Principle being true my discourse of yesterday is vndeniable that you may change religions as often as you please and remain still a true Reformed Child Ismael But you haue said that not only the Doctrin of each Congregation and Synod is the Doctrin of the Reformation but also whateuer any one particular Doctor teachs and this seems to be very absurd Isaac It 's not so absurd as it is true I 'l prove by the Principles of our Reformed Church by the testimonies of our most Learned and Best Drs. and Reformers and by reason and experience that the Doctrin of any particular Doctor among vs has as much right to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation as Protestancy Presbytery or Lutheranism for what is Lutheranism but the judgment of Luther a particular Dr against the whole Church of Rome what is Calvinism but what Calvin a particular Dr judged to be the sense of Scripture against that same Church what is Quakery but honest Naylor's godly and pious sentiments vpon Scripture It s vndeniably the Principle of our Reformed Church that our Rule of faith is Scripture as interpreted not only by Synods or Congregations but by any Person of sound judgment in the Church No Congregation or Synod is to vs a Rule of faith because all are fallible but Gods Written Word as each one vnderstands it and if wee do not like the sense of it delivered by any Council Synod or Congregation wee may safely deny it therefore our great Calvin saies and proues with great energy of Scripture and reason that we are not obliged to the Decisions and Doctrin of any Council Synod or Congregation if after hauing examined Scripture we do not find their interpretation and sense of it is conformable to the Word of God Let Synods and Congregations say what they will if any particular Doctor thinks his own privat sense of it to be better he may stick to it against them all and be a good true Child of the Reformation as Arminius in Holland did withstand the Synods of Dordreet and Delpht as Luther and Calvin did against Rome I will be free saies our vnparalleld Proto-Apostle Luther I wil◠not submit my self to the authority of Councils Church Drs Vniuersities or Fathers but will teach and preach whateuer I think to be true Did ever any Apostle speake with more courage and the blessed man acted with no less he knew full well the whole Stream of antiquity Drs Fathers and Councils were against him as he confesses himself and dit not care a rus◠for them all Lay aside saies he ◠arms of Orthodox antiquity of School◠of Diuinity authority of Fathers Councils Popes and consent of ages we receiue nothing but Scripture but s◠that we must haue the authority of interpreting it Nor was it only Luther and Calvin spoke thus but all our first blessed Reformers and why because our Rule of faith is Scripture not a interpreted by the Church of England France will not admit it nor as interpreted by the Quakers the Anabaptists and Independents will not heare it nor as interpreted by Luther Calvin rejects it nor as interpreted by Calvin Thorndic and Bramhal will not yield to it nor will Stillingfleet stand to their interpretation nor others to that of Stillingfleet Finally our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by any but as each Congregation Synod particular Dr or man of sound judgment interprets it and consequently what ever Doctrin any man of sound judgment judges to be of Scripture is to be esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation and you may safely believe it if you like it and remain still as truely a Reformed Child as the proudest Protestant of England Ismael Can you prove that our Rule of faith is Scripture as any particular Dr or person of sound judgment vnderstands it Isaac Behold how convincingly first wee have heard Luther quoted but now say We receive nothing but Scripture but so as that we must have the authority for t◠interpret it hear him again Th◠Governors and Pastors haver powe t◠teach but the sheep must give thei◠judgment whether they propose the voy◠of Christ or of strangers And again Christ has taken from the Bishops Councils and Pastors the right of judging of Doctrin and given it to all Christians i◠General and the Rule is Scripture ◠each one will think fit to interpret i◠And consequently to this wee hav◠heard him say aboue I will be fi◠and will not submit to Drs Councils ◠Pastors but will teach whatever think to be true Barlow The Apostles have given to each particular t◠Right and power of interpreting a◠judging by his inward spirit what i◠True its needless that either man ◠Angel Pope or Council should instru◠you the spirit working in the heart an◠Scripture are to each particular person mo◠assured interpreters Bilson Bishop o◠Wincester saies the same The peopl◠must be discerners and judges of wha◠is taught Our Religion has no othe◠Rule of faith saies our French Reformation by the mouth of Dumoulin Drelincourt and the holy Synod of Charenton but the Written Word of God as interpreted by vs. Lastly saies the Church of England in the 6th Art of their 39. We have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstāds it and what is proved by it and again
liberty that wee should have libertie for to believe or deny supremacy figurative Presence Communion in one or both kinds and such other inferior Truths controverted among Christians and that each Congregation may in such Articles believe as it vnderstands by Scripture to be true may pass and it s practis'd in our Reformed Churchs But that wee should run so farr as to have libertie by our Rule of faith to believe or deny the Fundamental and chief Articles of Christianity as the Trinity Incarnation Divinity of Christ c. that libertie ought not to be giuen our Reformation very wisely and piously permits the Lutherans to believe one thing the Presbyterians an other the Protestants an other and so of the rest and all are true Reformed Children because each of them believes as they judge by Scripture to be true but the Reformation has neuer giuen not neuer will giue liberty to interpret Scripture against the fundamental articles of Christanity wee must be moderat and keep our rambling fancies within compass and if any should judge and interpret Scripture in favor of any scandalous and abominable Tenets against Christianity and good Manners he must be checkt and not commended this moderation the Church of England vses and will never permit the contrary Isaac J percevie a greate deale of Popish blood to run in your veins and that if you and your Church of England were in pâ—ower at the beginning of our Reformation wee should neuer have had a Luther Calvin Beza or such other noble and renowned Reformers by what J gather from your discourse J do not see the breth of an inchs difference betwixt the Church of Rome and you and your Church of England for the Church of Rome will not stick to grant that Gods Word alone is her Rule of faith but so that none must believe any sense of it but as she believes it nor interpret any text but receive her interpretation of it The Church of England has Scripture for her Rule of faith and gives vs libertie for to interpret vnderstand and believe som texts of it as each one thinks best and so permits Presbyterians to deny Episcopacy Lutherans to deny Figurative Presence c. and confesses they are all her Brethren of the Reformation but she will give no libertie at all for to interpret other Texts but all must vnderstand them as she does or all must be heretiks and damn'd men No that text My father and I are one must be interpreted to signifie the Unitie in Nature of the Father and son as the Church of England believes none must interpret it otherwise so that the difference betwixt the Popish Church and that of England is the first giues vs no liberty at all the second giues us som libertie the first robs vs of all the second but of the one half the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councils the Rule of faith in England as to som Articles is Scripture as interpreted by the Church of Enggland and as to other Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and thus Protestants are but half Papists and half Reformed and both these ingredients will never make a good compound Let any vnbyass'd and impartial man judge if the Church of England proceeds justly in this for if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it as she mentions in her 39. Articles and as the whole Reformation believes if wee are not to be constraind to believe any Church Council or mans sense of Scripture if wee do not judge by the Word of God its true by what authority Rule or reason can the Church of England give me libertie to vnderstand and believe som texts as J please and deny me libertie for to vnderstand and believe others as J judge by Scripture they ought to be vnderstood J pray observe well this discourse heer are Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius and our other first Reformers they interpret som texts against the Doctrin of Rome and others against the Doctrin of the Church of England they are praised for the first and esteemed Apostolical Reformers because without any regard of what the Church of Rome said they freely taught and believed what they judged by Scripture to be true why must not they be praised and esteemed true Reformers also for not regarding what the Church of England or any other saies but teach the impossibility of Gods Commandments the sufficiency of faith alone and all those other Tenets which you so much mislike since they judge by Scripture that to be the true Doctrin are they bound to submit their judgments to the Church of England more than to that of Rome Ismael But in those Tenets they do not only contradict the Church of England but all Christian Churchs and Congregations for all will say those are wicked and scandalous Doctrin Isaac And if they judge by Scripture that those Tenets are not such but sound and good Doctrin may not they believe them tho all the world and ten worlds did gainsay them is not Scripture our Rule of faith and are wee to regard what any Church or all Churchs say further than wee find by Scripture that they say well But being these Tenets which you call horrid blasphemies displease you I 'll change my discourse and because I see you are Popishly inclined J will shew you how by the Principles of our Reformation you can be as good a Papist as the Pope one principle excepted wherin you must dissent from the Church of Rome if you intend to remain a true Reformed Child Ismael You promise too much and more than J desire to know J don't desire to have any Communication with the Pope I know by the Writings of our Authors what kind of beast he is Isaac By your favor you may believe the Popes are worthy honest and godly men many Drs. of our Reformation and our Travellers to the Court of Rome give this testimonie of them you may also believe that Popes and Cardinals are knaves and Atheists who looke on Scripture as a Romance and deny the Incarnation of Christ for Calvin saies so and would never have said it if it had not been true but beware not to speake so in Rome or they 'l lodge you where honest Taylor the Quaker was nor in Spain or they 'l stop your mouth with an Inquisition faggot Ismael J care not what the Pope or Cardinals are but J would gladly know what religion and Congregation you are of for wheras you are my immediat instructor it behoues me to know what religion you have Isaac As to my Religion I doubt not but that my Readers will be devided in their judgments of me if a Papist reades me hee 'l sweare I am an Atheist but J hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his Pope if a Protestant hee l say I am a Papist and that my drift is to cast
out of heauens gates and suffer Inquisitions persecutions excommunications and what not so among vs you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England or you are condemned by them you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Presbyterians or you are accursed by them you must believe as Anabaptists do or you are damn'd by them and not one Congregation among vs but would root all the others out of the world if it could and wee do not feare that danger wherof S. Paul Gal. 5.15 warns vs If wee bite and devour one an other let 's take heed wee be not consumed one of an other giving vs likewise a holsom advice in the same place how to prevent this euil Stand fast in the libertie wherewith Christ has made vs free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage The world did groan vnder this heauy yoke in Popery wherin our Rule of faith was Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Church Scripture was kept from the hand of the flock no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it but what the Pope Church and Fathers did approve our reason our judgments our consciences were slaves vnder this yoke vntill that God raised our glorious and blessed Reformers Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others who tooke a holy Libertie and gave vâ— all libertie for to reade and interpreâ— Scripture to believe no Doctrin buâ— what wee judged to be true by Scripture to believe any sense of it which wee judged to be true tho contrary to all thâ— world they tooke for their Rule of faitâ— Scripture and nothing else but Scripturâ— as each one of them vnderstood it thiâ— same Rule of faith they left to vs and â— holy freedom and libertie of our judgments and consciences that any man oâ— sound judgment may hold and believâ— whatever sense of it he thinks to bâ— true This therefore is the scope and end oâ— my following Treatise that wheras ouâ— Rule of faith as J will prove by thâ— vnanimous coÌ„sent of our whole Reformed Church is Scripture or Gods Wriâ—ten Word as interpreted by each persoâ— of sound judgment that wheras bâ— the Principles of our Reformation nâ— man is to be constrained to believe anâ— Doctrin against his judgment and conscience otherwise why were not we left in Popery it is impious tyranâ—cal and quite against the spirit of the Reformation to force vs by Acts of Parliaments Decrees of Synods invectives and persecutions of indiscreet Brethren to embrace this or that Religion that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he please if you think Bigamy to be the Doctrin of Scripture if you think by Scripture there is one Nature and four Persons in God if you think Transubstantiation to be true if you judge by Gods Word ther 's neither Purgatory nor Hell finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture you are bound as a true Reformed Child to believe it that it is quite against the spirit of the Reformation to censure oppose or blame the Doctrin or Tenets of any Congregation or of any Doctor of the Reformed Church because that any Doctrin professed by any Christian Congregation whatever the Popish excepted or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the Reformation since the beginning of it vntill this day is as truly and really the Doctrin of the Reformation as the Figurative Presence or kings supremacy is Consequently Protestants are deservedly to be checkt for persecutinâ— Quakers Quakers for murmuring againâ— Presbyterians these for their invectivâ— against Anabaptists and Socinians Aâ— are very good and you may lawfully according the Principles of our Reformâ—tion believe them or deny them This Evangelical libertie of believinâ— any thing which we judge to be the senâ— of scripture tho all the rest of the worlâ— should judge it to be a blasphemie the most distinctive sign of the Refoâ—mation from Popery for Papists are thâ— Children of Agar the slave they livâ— in bondage and constraint to believe at Doctrin which the Pope and Church prâ—poses to them and if a learned man â— vniversity should judge it to be contraâ— to Scripture he must submit his judgment to that of the Pope or be coâ—demn'd as an Heretic in our Reformâ—tion wee are the Children of Sara tâ— Free our Rule of faith is Scripture â— each Person of sound judgment in thâ— Church vnderstands it if wee do nâ— like the Doctrin of the Pope Church â— Council wee may gainsay them all anâ— hold our own sense of Scripture â— enjoy the Prerogative of Rational creâ—tures we are lead by our own reason which God has given vs for our conduct and are not like Beasts constrained to follow that of others Wee follow the Rule given vs by S. Paul Rom. 14. He who eates let him not despise him who does not eate and he who does not eate let him not despise him who does eate for God hath received him that 's to say he who believes let him not check him who does not believe as he does and he who does not believe let him not blame him who does believe but let each one believe or not believe as he thinks best in the Lord This holy libertie and freedom is the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is libertie 2. Cor. 3. saies the great Apostle The Lord inspire to our Parliament that now sitâ— vpon a perfect and new settlement of Gouvernment and Religion to follow the footsteps of our first renowned Reformers to enact that there may be no other Rule of faith but that which we received from our Reformers and which is laid down for vs in the 39 Articles of the Church of England that is Scripture as each one best vnderstands it without regarding the judgment sense or interpretation of any but the pure Word of God as we vnderstand it and to enact Penal Laws against any so bold and vncharitable as to censure or blame the Tenets of any Congregation be it Lutheranism Presbyterie Arianism Judaism or Paganism or any Doctrin whatever that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture Three things make me hope that this Treatise will be wellcom to the well inclined and pious Reader of our Reformed Church first that there is not one author quoted in this booke but our own Doctors learned and godly Children of the Reformation and this J observe that my Reader may know ther 's not a Jot of any Doctrin heer but what is of the Reformation and also advertise our Writers and Schoole men how much they discredit our Reformed Church by makeing so much vse of Popish Drs and Bookes in their Writings as if wee had not great and learned men of our own if wee looke into our Bishops and Ministers libraries wee shall meet but books either of confessedly Papists or strongly suspected of Popery and you shall hardly
in the Catholic Doctrin of the Church of England pag. 103. which is but an exposition of the 39. Articles Our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstands it Authority is given to the Church and to each person of sound judgment in it to judge in Controversies of faith and this is not the privat judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of forreign Countries Ismael J confess not only these but many other Drs abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one vnderstands it but alas you see well that wee can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of faith Isaac You can never settle any but rhis That every man may without leâ— or hinderance believe what he please and why should not this be a good Religion if Scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our Rule of faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by this or that Congregation whâ— difference betwixt vs and Papists They must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councilâ— have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you muâ— depose your own judgment aâ— submit to that of the Pope Counciâ— and Popish Church to this pass â— are come also wee must believe tâ— kings supremacie Episcopacy Fâ—gurative presence tho perhaps we dâ— not judge by Scripture it be trâ— Doctrin wee are constrained by Penal laws and Acts of Parliament tâ— believe them as Papists by the Inquisition and why because thâ— Church of England vnderstands bâ— Scripture its true and if you replâ— you do not interpret Scripture sâ— you 'l not be heard you must submiâ— and believe against your judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyrany ouer mens consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them vnderstood it and tho Luther was a man raysed by God and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oecolampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery if therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the spirit of our first blessed Reformers wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of Scripture we must believe whateuer we think to be true and have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael And what then what do you inferr from this discourse Isaac This consequence that wheras no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation you will can justly deny our Rule of faith to be Scripture as any Person of sound judgment interprets it it follows vnauoidably that the Doctrin of the Reformation is Whatever any Person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first ryse vntill this day taught to be the true sense of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation tho to others of this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrin And now let me answer to an objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse you objected that many Papish Drs and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrins which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho deliverd by Papish Drs and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of privat Drs of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Dr or Universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the Popish Church because their Rule of faith is not Scripture as interpreted by any Person of sound judgment but as interpreted by their Pope and Council But wheras our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it whatever Doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Melancton a man of sound judgment great learning and of an vpright conscience taught Bigamy to be the Doctrin of scripture Beza taught the Lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine Calvin taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffered the pains of hell after his death why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrin let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrin will be still of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment Ismael The heate of your discourse has tyred you and my memorie iâ— sufficiently loaden with what yoâ— have said let me digest it in my privat retirement and wee will meeâ— again Isaac Content carrie with yoâ— these three points which I have proved convincingly first our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by this or that but by anâ— man of sound judgment secondly iâ— follows hence that the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture thirdly it follows wee may change Religions as often as wee please III. DIALOGUE ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'l neuer perswade it tho you have pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other tradesman reade Scripture and giue their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the Doctrin of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinit goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions take notice he saies he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones I confess vnto you Father that you have hid thesâ— things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And therefore he choosed poore simple
reverent regard for the sense and interpretation of it given by the Primitive ages Fathers and Councils and that wee prefer before the privat interpretations of particular Persons Isaac And just so saied the Popish Church to Luther and our first blessed Reformers and if that had been well dâ—n wee should have had neither Protestancy nor any other Reformation but you confess at least that the Rule of faith in all other Congregations is but Scripture as each Person vnderstands it and each person may consequently believe his own sense of it and deny the sense of any other if he does not like it then you must confess that in all other Congregations except the Church of England any Reformed Child may believe any sense and Doctrin which any Person of sound judgment judges to be Scripture if himself likes it tho all the rest of the world may think it naught and wheras you cannot deny but that all and each Dr. quoted by me for those Tenets which you call blasphemies were sound and able judgments you must confess that it is a necessarie sequele out of their Rule of faith that in all other Congregations they may piously and safely believe all those Tenets and be still true Children of the Reformation Ismael J confess if they speake coherently and stand to their Principles they may believe them safely but as J hate those blasphemous Tenets I abhorr and detest also that Principle and Rule of faith of other Congregations from which such Tenets are vnavoidable sequeles Isaac Good Ismael you forget what you have hitherto all along avowed and you are quite astray from the Doctrin of the Reformation you have often granted me that our Rule of faith is Scripture not as this or that Congregation Doctor or Church but as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and now you tell me you hate and detest that Rule because that out of it there follow strange and blasphemous Tenets you say the sense and interpretation of the primitive ages Church and Fathers must be prefered before the interpretation of any privat Person or Congregation and what think you of our whole Reformation and particularly of our 39. Articles of the Church of England which allow no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it what say you of Luther Calvin Beza and the rest of our first Reformers who preferred their own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture before that of the whole Church what say you to the Presbyterians who preferr their own sense and interpretation of the Bible before that of the Church of England what say you of all the Congregations of the Reformed Church each one of which holds its sense and Doctrin of Scripture different from all the rest I grant there ought to be a respect for the judgment and interpretation of the Text given by the Primitive Church and Fathers but if a Doctor or man of sound judgment replenisht with Gods Spirit reades Scripture with an humble heart and pure intention and judges by it that Bygamy is lawfull that there is no Mystery of three Persons in one Divin Nature that Christ despaired on the Cross c. tho these Doctrins be quite against the judgment of Fathers Church and Councils he may believe them and be still a true Reformed Child because he follows our Rule of faith and if he must deny these Articles because others decry them then he must go against his own judgement and conscience for to conform himself to them and his Rule of faith must not be scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it but as the primitive Ages Church and Councils vnderstand it and this is Popery Ismael Prethy friend Jsaac let 's give ouer all that your discourse drives at by what J can perceive is either to beate me from the Reformation by shewing me the absurdity of its Rule of faith or oblige me to believe scandalous and blasphemous Tenets as necessary sequeles out of that Rule I am à Child of the Reformation and never will be otherwise Isaac The Lord who is the Searcher of hearts knows you misconster my intentions how can you say I inteÌ„d to beate you from the Reformation do not J insist and persuade you to stick fast to its Rule of faith and acknowledge no other but Scripture as you vnderstand it how can you say J oblige you to believe fals and scandalous Tenets to the contrary J advise you not to believe them if you judge by scripture they are fals and scandalous what my discourse drives at is that you should not censure blame or call any Doctrin blasphemous scandalous fals or heretical Popery excepted for tho you judge by Scripture it is not true an other will judge it to be the true sense and Doctrin of the Text and if he does he may with a safe conscience believe it and ought not to be blamed by you or any other for believing it if you do not like that Doctrin do not believe it but let the other believe as he judges by Scripture he may and let every tub stand on its own bottom Ismael Once more I besech you give ouer J will not discourse any more with you Isaac Nay Deare Ismael I see you are troubled and I will not leaue you in that perplexitie be pleased to listen to three points I will propose vnto you and you 'l not miss to find satisfaction in either of them Ismael Let 's heare them Isaac Will you believe Scripture as it is interpreted and in that sense which the Church Councils and Fathers propound vnto you Ismael J will not be obliged to that for I may judge by Scripture that sense and interpretation of it to be fals and erroneous and I will not be obliged to believe any thing against my judgment and conscience that is Popery Isaac That 's well in so much you follow the footsteps of Luther Calvin and our other fist Reformers who would not believe what the Church believed in their tyme nor regarded not what the Papists alleadged out of the Councils and Fathers against them because they held themselves obliged to believe Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as it was vndestood by others Will you then believe Scripture in that sense and interpretation which yourself judges to be true tho the Church Councils and all other Congregations judge it to be fals and erroneous and give the like libertie to all others Ismael That 's dangerous for it would follow that any man might believe without check or blame the greatest blasphemies imaginable if he judges them to be the sense of the Text. Isaac Why then since that the first does not please you for feare of constraining your judgment Papist-like and the second displeases you for the scope it gives for to believe any thing or nothing your best way will be to lay Scripture asyde wheras Christ has forgot or neglected to appoint vs som
interpreted by the Pope and CoÌ„ciâ— my Religion must be Scripture as intâ—preted by the Lutheran Church aâ— no other my judgment and Conscieâ— therefore is as much constrained as tâ— of the Papist and our separation frâ— Popery will com to be but an exchanâ— of one slavery for another in thâ— our judgments and Consciences wâ— slaves to the Pope and Councils â— this we are slaves to the Lutheâ— Church We became a Reformatâ— by shaking of the yoke of Popâ— from our judgments and leaving thâ— free for to belieue Scripture as wâ— the assistance of Gods spirit each oâ— best vnderstands it and if we â— continue a Reformation we must â— submit again our judgments to aâ— other but retain that blessed liberâ— we recouered for to belieue the Teâ— of any Congregation I confess this â—bertie is not allowed by any one pâ—ticular Congregation as you obserâ— but you must also grant me that â— allowed taken by the whole bodâ— of the Reformation for in this whoâ— body as it comprehends Protestants Lutherans Presbyterians c. one CoÌ„gregation believes what the other denies and in any of them a man may live with a safe Conscience which you will not denie therefore any man has full libertie for to believe or deny with a safe Conscience the Tenets of any Congregation hence it follows and to my grief I speake it that no particular Congregation be it of England France or Germanie has the true spirit of the Reformation in doting so much vpon their particular Tenets as to thinke they cannot be as well denied as believed and in looking vpon them with so passionat eys as to censure check and force others to believe them you shall see by this discourse that the true spirit of the Reformation is not in any one particular Congregation separatly taken from the rest for each particular Congregation constrains as much as it can all people to believe its own Tenets Protestancy would have vs all to be Protestants and would root Lutherans out of the world as well as Popery Lutherans would if they could draw all to their own Nett Presbytery esteems itself to be the best of all would crush Protestancy if it could This then iâ— the spirit of each particular Congregation a Limiting confining spirit to som particular Tenets with an exclusion of all others but looke on the whole Body of our Reformation aâ— it includes all Reformed Congregations distinct from Popery there iâ— a holy extension of spirit and libertie for to be either Lutherans Presbyteriants Protestans and any thing but Popery and whatever any Congregation may say of an other but all vnanimously agree that the spirit of the Lord is in the whole body of the Reformation since therefore that in this whole Body there is a latitude libertie for to profess divers and oppositâ— Tenets and that each Tenet is believed by one and denied by others we must grant that this holy libertie for to believe or deny any Tenets we please is the true spirit of our holy reformation It 's not therefore to be wisht as you do that I should stick to any one particular Congregation or Tenets for such a restriction is meer Popery and your bemoaning the multiplicity of our Congregations is profane and Popish No it s a blessing of the Lord vpon our Reformation for which we shall never sufficiently thank him that we see it divided into so many Godly branches In the house of my father said Christ there are many mansions Joan. 14.2 Ismael By your discourse you seem to allow that we may with a safe conscience change Religions as often as we please and be to day a Protestant to morrow à Lutheran next day a Presbyterian and so run ouer all Isaac I know you will be startl'd at my answer for J am not ignorant that all men apprehend it to be absurd to change run ouer so many religions but truth must be declared though it may seem a scandal to the Iews and a folly to the Gentils It s therefore the Doctrin of the Reformation that we may with a safe conscience be to day Protestanrs to morrow Lutherans in France Hugonots in Hungarie Antitrinitarians in Poland Socinians ad in London of any Religion but Popery Ismael For shame you fouly imposâ— vpon the Reformation ther 's not anâ— Congregation that teachs such à scandalous and absurd Doctrin Isaac By your favor I loue thâ— Reformation as the apple of my eye and will never yield to any in my zealâ— for its honor and doctrin J am so faâ— from imposing upon it that I will evidence your error in denying this to bâ— its Doctrin and it will appear thaâ— whoever will deny it to be very lawful to change Religions as time and occasion requires must renounce the besâ— and fundamental Principles of our Reformation must impiously condemâ— the practise of our first Reformers Ismael How will you make it ouâ— that this Doctrin is grounded vpoâ— the fundamental Principles of our Reformation wheras there is not onâ— Congregation of ours but abhorrs it Isaac Sr. You may well perceive by the tenor of my discours that J am piously and charitably iealous with each particular Congregation thaâ— my drift is to shew that each of them none excepted swerves from and transgresses against the true spirit and solid Principles of the Reformation as wiâ—l further appear in this discours It s vâ—contestedly true that the Rule of faith of the Reformation is Scripture as the humble of heart assisted with the spirit of the Lord vnderstands it for Lutherans will never admit their Rule of faith to be Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England but as interpreted by themselves nor will England admit Scripture to be their Rule of faith as it is interpreted by the Presbyterians but as interpreted by the Church of England so that the Doctrin of each Congregation is but Scripture as interpreted by them and wheras all these Congregations joyntly compose the whole Body of the Reformation and each Congregation is truly a member of the Reformation the Doctrin of the Reformation coms to be Scripture as each Congregation and person of sound judgment in the Reformation saies the Church of England in her 39. Artic. interprets it This being an vncoÌ„trouled truth what man of euer so sound a judgment but may read to day Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church and judge in his conscience that interpretation and Doctrin to be true consequently he may with a safe conscience profess that Religion soon after he may meet Calvins bookes charm'd with the admirable strength of his reasons and glosses vpon Scripture he may judge in his conscience he is to be preferr'd beforre Luther and so may lawfully forsake Lutheranism for Calvinism then again he hits vpon Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England whose Doctrin ravish's him with that decencie of Ceremonies that majesty of her lyturgie that harmonie of her Hieraâ—chie
Scripture alone as their Rule of faith without any regard of the Pope Church Councils or Fathers The Church of Rome proud and impatient of any opposition condemned them as Hereticks for not submitting their judgments to her for takeing Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as the Church and Councils vnderstood it for their Rule of faith and if this be a crime wee are as guiltie as they wee are equally nocent or innocent wee are both Hereticks or none is wee are therefore concern'd in their honor and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the Common enemy which is the Popeâ— they were Reformers of the Church in their times as wee are in ours and wheras thy have the same Rulâ— of faith so they have the same Religion with the Reformation Ismael Then you will say Ariâ—nism is the Doctrin of the Reformâ—tion and wee may lawfully believe iâ— Isaac I say God's Unitie in Nature and Trinity in Persons is thâ— Doctrin of the Reformation becausâ— the Protestant Lutheran and Hâ—gonot Church judge by Scripture iâ— is true and if you judge also bâ— Scripture it s the true Doctrin yoâ— may believe it I say also if yoâ— judge by Scripture this Mystery is not true you may safely deny it according the Principles of the Reformation and be still as good a member of the Reformed Church as they who believe it for whoeuer believes what he judges by Scripture to be true is a true Reformed and that the denyal of the Trinitie is as much the Doctrin of the Reformation as the belief of it it appears not only because it was the Doctrin of the Arians who as I proved are truly of the Reformed Church but because it was taught by the greatest Ligths of our Church Calvin saies the text My Father is greater than I must be vnderstood of Christ not only as he is Man but also as he is God And that the Council of Nice did abuse the text My Father and I are one for to prove the Vnity of both in Nature wheras it only signifies their Vnity by conformity of Will Again he saies Epist 2. ad Polon in tract Theol. pag. 796. That prayer Holy Trinity one God have mercy of vs is barbarous and does not please me And ads The son has his own substance distinct from the Father His Disciple Danaeus saies it s a foolish insipid prayer and our great Apostle Luther who as Fox witnesseth was the Chariot and conductor of Israel and a man extraordinarily raised and replenisht with Gods spirit to teach the purity of the Ghospel caused that prayer to be blotted out of the Litanies That word Trinity saies he sounds coldly my soule hates that word Homousion and the Arian did well in not admitting it Lastly Ochinus that great Oracle of England impugns this Mysterie with a strong discourse Wee are not obliged to believe saies he more than the Saints of the Ancient Testament otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs but they were not obliged to believe this Mystery therefore we are not obliged Examin I pray the works of these eminent Drs. where I quote them consider if they be not not only men of sound judgment but men extraordinarily raised by God saies the Synod of Charenton the chariots and conductors of Israel saies Fox men to be reverenc'd after Christ saies our Dr Powel and Apostolical Oracles sent to teach vs the purity of the Ghospell and conclude it s an vndeniable Veritie that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras it's Scripture as interpreted by such men O! but England France and Scotland believes this Mysterie well and what then that proves that the Mysterie is also the Doctrin of the Reformation because whateuer any Man of sound judgment thinks to be Scripture is its Doctrin but is England or France alone the whole Reformation are not Luther Caluin Danaeus Ochinus as well of the Reformation and men of as sound judgment as they since therefore they vnderstand by Scripture ther 's no Trinitie it s the Doctrin of the Reformation also that ther 's none believe it or deny it which you like best and you 'l be still of the Reformed Church Ismael By the Principle you run vpon you may say any blasphemy is the Doctrin of the Reformation for ther 's hardly any so execrable but som Dr of ours has delivered and taught it Isaac The Principle I run vpon is this Scripture as each Person of sound judgment interprets it is our Rule of faith judge you if that be not a good Principle in our Reformed Church wheras this is the Rule of faith given vs by the 39. Articles and generally by all our Drs as I proved in my first Dialogue this being our Rule of faith and Reformed Doctrin its evident that whatever Doctrin is judged by any Person of sound judgment to be contained in Scripture is the Doctrin of our Reformation som Persons of sound judgement say the Real Presence is expressed by Scripture this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others say only Figurative Presence is taught in Scripture this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation som vnderstand by Scripture there is a Mysterie of the blessed Trinitie this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others vnderstand ther 's no such Mysterie this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation so that whether you believe or deny this or any other Tenet controverted you 'l still hold the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Calvin saies Christ prai'd vnaduisedly the Eve of his Passion that he vttered words wherof he was afterward sorry that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides that ouerwhelm'd with desperation he desisted from invoking God which was to renunce all hopes of salvation And saies he if you object us absurd and scandalous to affirm Christ despaired I answer this desperation proceeded from him as he was man not as he was God And this is not only the Doctrin of Calvin but of Brentius Marlotus Jacobus Minister quoted by Bilson and of Beza will you say this is the Doctrin of the Reformation or that wee can without scruple believe it Also Calvin saies That Châ—ist's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem vs but that after hauing despaired on the Cross he suffered the death of his soule that 's to say that his soule after his corporal death suffered the pains of the damn'd in hell And saies he in the same place they are but ignorant doltish brutish men who will deny it Luther also teachs the same Doctrin As he suffered with exceeding pains the death of the Body so it seems he suffered afterward the death of his soule in hell Epinus a learned Lutheran saies Christ descended into hell for thee and suffered not only corporal death but the death and fire of hell Mr. Fulk and Parkins avow this is also the express Doctrin