not leave men to themselves but as Governours of the Church doe by power of the Keyes judge and bind the Gainsayers and cast the Refractory out of their Communion So then the Guides of the Church have the power of Publike Judgement to judge and define for others in matters of faith and worship and power of Iurisdiction to judge censure and cast out the disobedient and to private men is lest onely the Iudgement of discretion without which they cannot come to beleeve or serve God as they ought with reasonable service Rom. 12.1 CHAP. IX Of dissenting from the publike Judgement NOw for the using their reason and judgement against the Church or their dissenting from the definitions and practise of it we give no encouragement to that We 1. teach all Inferiours whether People or Priests when they finde cause of doubt or question against such definitions or practise to mistrust their owne reason and rather relye upon the publick Judgment than their own in every doubtfull case 2. That they which doubt still seek refolution and satisfaction from their Superiours modestly propounding their doubts and reasons and conscionably using all means to rectifie their judgment and satisfie their Conscience 3. If they cannot find satisfaction so as inwardly to acquiesce yet to yeeld external obedience peaceable subjection according as the condition of the matter questioned will bear In a word we require all that submission of judgement and outward compliance that may be due to an Authority not infallible yet guiding others by an infallible Rule and most highly concerned to guide them accordingly as being answerable for their Soules 4. We tell them the danger of gainsaying that they are to answer it to God and his Church That if they cannot approve the reason of their dissenting to the judgement of the Church they must expect to undergoe the Censures of it For the Church standing so obliged to answer for Souls and to preserve Peace and Unity and having therefore the advantage of Authority and publick judgement above all private persons it is also most reasonable it should have the advantage in the contestation with private persons and in the issue of such a businesse to proceed according to its own judgement and use the power it has against those that stand out And then is there a further answering it to God Thus it stands between every Particular Church and the Members of it betweene Superiours and Inferiours in it and in some proportion between every particular or National Church and the Catholick Church in receiving and holding the Definitions of Generall Councils and the Generall Practise of the Church Tough here a Nationall Church hath the advantage above private persons in the point of Judgement and dissenting Yet where it does dissent from other Churches generally erring it arises first from the use of reason and judgement in private persons discovering the errours for some in all Reformations must speak first and propounding them which being approved by the Judgement of that Church the Reformation follows as an Act of publick Judgement or as an Act of a National Church which though inferiour to the Catholick yet hath it judgement within it selfe for the receiving and holding the Definitions and Practises of the Church-Generall and may have possibly just cause of dissenting and reforming and can doe it regularly according to the way of the Church by Provinciall Synods which private persons dissenting from her cannot doe And this is considerable in the English Reformation which as it was upon publick Judgement of a Nationall Church in Provinciall Synods so will it not prove a dissenting from the Catholike Church or definit ons of true Generall Councils but of that more below when we come to triall by Antiquity And of this respect or submission due from every Particular Church to the General as it concernes the Act of this Nationall Church in the Reformation more largely in the first Chapter of my later Book For the present we are to speak of the possibility of dissent of Inferiours from Superiours and the use of reason and judgement necessary to it CHAP. X. Possibility of just dissenting THe submission and obedience spoken of as due to Superiours and their Judgement ought to take place in all cases where there is not something clearly against them that confessedly excels the Authority and Judgement of the present Governours as evidence of Scripture demonstration of reason and a conformable consent of Primitive Times the pure Ages of the Church Now that such a case or such a cause of using private judgement even to a dissenting from the publike may happen Reason and Experience tells us Because it is possible that such as have chief place in the publike Judgement National or General may neglect their duty at least the greater number of them to the overbearing of the lesse and through prejudice of Faction or other wordly respects may faile in determining and propounding the Truth For the promise of guiding them is conditional upon performing duty and that is not alwaies certaine in the greater part to the imposing of false Belief and false Worship So that it comes to be Error manifestus appearing so to be both by the Word of God and the conformable beliefe and practise of the firster Ages of the Church Here is place for Reason and Judgement of Inferiours to dissent upon such Evidence after modest proposall and demonstration of the Errour And to this in part accords the concession of Bell. lib. 2. de Concil Inferiours may not judge whether their Superiours have lawfully proceeded nisi manifestissimè constet intolerabilem errorem committi Now when I speak of private Judgement dissenting from the publick Judgement or generall practises of the Church and of the preservation of Truth and the Faith thereby I doe not speak of the Reason or Judgement of the People or Laity divided from all their Guides and Pastors but I include these who of what ranke soever dissenting from the publick either definition or practise are as men of private judgement in such a case These I say I alwayes include in such a just dissenting or falling off from any erroneous belief or practise prevailing in the Church For it cannot be imagined that God who promised to be with them and guide them should take away his Truth from all the Guides and Pastors of his Church and preserve it by the Judgement and Conscience of Lay people but that still however they which have chiefe place in the Church prove corrupt some Guides and Pastors though of lesse number and place shall be they that shall detect the prevailing Errours and preserve the Truth and this by due use of Reason and private Judgement Experience also tels us what they have proved that have been in chiefe place that have sate in Moses Chair and in St. Peters how many Hereticks at severall times among the Popes how a whole succession of Monsters through the tenth Age of which Bellarmine
complaines and Baronius cryes out Quae facies Rom. Ecclesiae when infamous Strumpets disposed of Bishopricks yea thrust their Paramours Amasios suos into Peters Chaire What Cardinals then made what Bishops then ordained by such Monsters and stertentibus omnibus all in a manner being asleep So he Experience also tels us how grosse Errours have prevailed over the Church as for example The Millenary belief so generally that Iustine Martyr contra Tryph. saith All that were in all points or throughly Orthodox Christians held it So also the giving of the Communion to Infants after Baptism as necessary to their salvation generally held and practised in the whole Church for many Ages I mean more generally than the Romish errors have been Now if there were not place for dissenting by the use of private judgment for some one person must speake first in the discovering such Errours there would be a necessity of the Churches continuing in Errour But both those Errours were reformed and he that spake first in discovering the untruth of them did it upon the use of his private judgement examining the beliefe and practise of the Church shewing the error of it It may be they will say those two Doctrines were not defined by the Church i. e. by any General Council So indeed they often excuse their own Doctors when they set their private judgement against the generall streame of Antiquity and by the like equity they might receive our plea That the beliefe and practises we forsooke were not Doctrines defined by the Church i. e. by any lawfull General Council But what if those two had been defined then no man will they say ought to have questioned them or used his private judgement against them But then must we say if any thing be defined amiss the Church must continue in errour and an after General Council cannot amend it But if things before defined may be corrected or reversed by the like Authority how can it come about but by the discovering of the former errour and that upon the use of private Judgement examing the definitions and shewing the error to the Church And that which Bellarmine grants as I said a little before Nisi manifestissimè constet errorem ïntolerabilem committi supposes such error may be committed and discovered But how can this later come about but upon the use of private Judgement in Inferiours and while the Council of Trent was not received in France was it not upon the use of their Judgement against that Council which with the Romanists passeth for General or how can Moderate Papists think the reception of the Catholick Church to be the best confirmation of the Decrees of a Council if not allow private Judgement in the examining and receiving them And seeing a General Council hath its power from the diffusive Catholick Church of which it is the representation however the Definitions of it may have more form of Law yet not more weight to presse the judgement or conscience than what is generally believed and practised through the whole Church as that of Infant Communion was We therefore leave men no otherwise to their reason and judgement than reason and necessity enforceth no otherwise than Christ and his Apostles left them Reason enforceth it as we heard both in regard of the Church which cannot else be reformed from prevailing errours and in regard of every particular Man who is to give account of himself is to be saved by his own Faith and perishes upon his own score They were not excused if seduced by their Prophets and Teachers as Isa 9.14 15 16. The Leaders of this people cause them to erre and they that are led are destroyed Also Head and Tail rush and branch both cut off and Ezek. 33.6 and 8 Those that perish through the Prophets default their blood notwithstanding is on their own head Answerably Mat. 15.14 They are not excused that blindly follow their Leaders both fall into the ditch The Romanists reject this as not applicable to the Guides of their Church answering in effect as the Pharisees who also had chief place in the Church are we also blind Joh. 9. and we may reply as our Saviour did You say We see therefore your sin remaineth therefore your blindnesse is more incureable Again our Saviour and his Apostles left men the use of their reason and judgment in discerning what is taught them in and by the Church For they enjoyn the use of it as a duty as when our Saviour bids Search the Scriptures Joh. 5.39 And take heed how you hear Luk. 8.18 Beware of false Prophets and by their fruits ye shall know them Mat. 7.15 And beware of the Leaven of the Pharisees Mat. 16. v. 11. that is their Doctrine ver 12. Now set against this last place that which our Saviour saith Mat. 23.2 The Scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses Chair all therefore that they bid you observe that observe and doe How can these be reconciled observe whatsoever they teach and yet beware of the Leaven of their Doctrine without allowing the Judgement of discretion in the hearer So the Apostle Gal. 1. forbids the receiving of any other Gospel though preacht from Heaven by an Angel How should the Galatians know a difference 'twixt the Gospel and Faith once delivered and any other new one but by using Reason and Judgement To the same purpose he bids Prove all things hold fast that which is good 1 Thes 5.21 Try the Spirit 1 Joh 4.1 The Romanists answer that these Precepts of Proving and Trying are spoken to the Guides of the People We say that is true to them chiefly spoken and yet to the People too to the Guides and Pastors in order to reforming and casting out Errors prevailing in which respect we plead for use of Reason and Judgement to be allowed not to the people so much but to their guides also in order to the keeping out Errours which false Teachers would bring in to the seducing of the people for their Guides are to judge for them But still that Proving and Trying that taking heed belongs also to the People and implyes their use of Reason and Judgement not in order to Resorming or Judging for others but in order to their own believing or receiving what is taught propounded to them The Apostle calls to them Iudge what I say 1 Cor. 10.15 And â—udge in your selves 1 Cor. 11. And the spiritual man judgeth all things 1 Cor. 2.15 He speakes of things taught in the Church and of the Spiritual mans judging them in order to his own beleeving to which purpose Saint Ioh. 1. Ep. 2.27 The Anointing shall teach you all things viz. so as to understand all things necessary to their Salvation CHAP. XI How far the Romanists leave men the use of their Reason and Judgement SEE we now what use of Reason and Judgement the Romanists allow to Men. They speake to the Reason and Judgement of Men whom they would bring in
unto them use Motives and Arguments to perswade their Religion and the Authority of the Church of Rome But if they suffer themselves to be perswaded to embrace that Authority upon such Reasons and Motives they must then resigne up their Reason and Judgement wholly Thus have they leave to use their sight in finding out that Church but when they have found it then they must follow it blindfold or looke but one way that way onely that that she directs and take all upon trust of her Infallible guidance They will say they commend the Definitions of the Church to the judgement and consciences of the people alleadging Reasons and Testimonies from the Scriptures and Fathers and this in order to better perswasion so far it is well But then their Reason and Judgement is absolutely bound to look that way onely and to see nothing against the definition of the Church No though she defines it is not against Chirsts institution to allow the people the Sacrament but in one kind or that it is lawfull to adore Images as she has done in her Council of Trent A man had as good spare his labour in using his Reason and Judgement to examine their proofs as having done all to be absolutely concluded and bound up Which no question goes very hard with many of their more learned Men who see more reason and evidence against than for what they are bound by the Church to believe and practice and so are ground between the Definition of their Church and the Judgement of their Conscience as between the upper and nether Milstone Hence that conscionable cunning of the Belgick Inquisitours who in their Index Expurgatorius 1571. confesse when they meet with the Antients speaking otherwise than their Church quovis commente they use any shift to remedy it We read how it fared with some Divines in the Council of Trent Who while their Articles were under deliberation undefined honestly proposing their doubts and arguments against the coÌ„mon sense of the prevailing party were cryed out on as Lutherans and some of them not suffered to speak more were sent away so free was that Council What shall we think now after the definitions are made but that mens Consciences judgements tongues are bound up not to doubt think or modestly propound any thing against them without the note of Heresie and danger of the Inquisition But see we what follows upon their Concessions To finde out the Church they allow as we heard the use of Reason and Judgement Now that must be by examining her marks and seeing a chief marke of the Church is Sanctitas doctrinae as Bellar. and others doe truly acknowledge it implyes a judging of all her Doctrines before a Man can truly know by the purity of them that this is the Church Again when the Church is found out yet still the question remains whether it be Infallible there also must the use of Reason and Judgment be allowed for no reason it should be taken upon her own word that she is the onely Infallible guide Therefore Bellarmine was enforced to say though untruly that the Infallibility of the Romish Church Councils and Popes stands upon apertas promissiones Of this at large below Chap. 27. naming Act. 15. Visum est Spiritui sancto nobis and Luk. 22. Rogavi pro te ut non deficiat fides lib. 3. de verbo Dei cap. 14. Now if these places and all other they bring to that purpose be acknowledged so plain that it is easie for any man using his Reason and Judgment to see this priviledge of the Roman Church in them when as indeed no reasonable consequence can draw it out of them who cannot but justly say the places of Scripture we bring against their Errours are more open and plain to him that will duly use his Reason and Judgement CHAP. XII Of knowing the Church by the marks of Eminencie Perpetuity c. CArdinal Perron in his first book cap. 5. and 6. against the Kings Letter seems to cut the businesse shorter and to leave men the use of Reason and Judgement in knowing the Church not by examining her Doctrines but by considering her external and more sensible marks such as are easie and proportionable to every mans capacity viz. Eminencie Amplitude Perpetuity or Succession and the like And when the Church is known by these then a man is to know by her the sense of places of Scripture which need interpretation But what he saith for this easie discovery of the out of Scripture A City on an Hill cannot be hid Mat. 5. was spoken by our Saviour of the Apostles and their preaching of the Gospel and if applyed to the Church it does not prove she can alwaies be known by these marks Nor does St. Austin's application of that Scripture to the knowing of the Church in his time imply the Church shall alwaies be so Not so now when it stands divided by East and West the Eastern Church challenging these marks as well as the Western Unlesse it come short of the Romish Church in Eminencie of outward splendor when as it is more Christian like to continue under pressures so many yeares the Romish Church may be eminent for pomp and have more of the world in it but the Greek Church is eminent for sufferings and has had more of the Crosse Now seeing the Greek Church which has these marks is in the Roman account heretical and the Roman Church likewise condemned by the Greek how shall a man know which of these to joyn to but by examining their Doctrine and judging of it The Cardinals similitude of a Testator â—ordaining one to be the Interpreter of his Testament that has a name common to others and therefore assigning marks to know him by so clear that they need no Interpreter cleares not the businesse For did ever any hear of an Executor or Interpreter of a Testament markt out by his gray head or antiquity by tallnesse of stature amplitude or eminencie of person or estate when his proper name and habitation would readily and sufficiently distinguish him from all others So had God markt out unto us in his Testament that Church which should in all Ages be the infallible Interpreter of his Will by the name Roman and place of habitation and in stead of a City built on a Hill the Scripture so oft repeated by the Cardinal said a City built on seven Hills there needed no more to doe but submit Reason and Judgement to all which that Church commanded But seeing he has not done it no not when occasion of mentioning such a priviledge had any such belonged to that Church I meane when St. Paul wrote to the Romans it is plain he has left us to know his Church by her Doctrine agreeable to his Word for so must we hear the voice of the Sheepherd especially when Churches of several Communions may challenge the former markes the Greek as well as the Roman Now what hath
been said against knowing the Church by these markes is not spoken to deny the Roman which challenges them to be a Church but that they mark her out for such a Church as the Cardinal would have us take her for such a Church as Saint Augustine speaks of viz. the Catholike Church the Church in which onely the Pastors voice is to be heard for what she pretends to by these marks alone she must allow to the Greek Church also It is not these barely without consideration of doctrine that could marke her out for a true Church but that she still together with these holds the foundation And in regard of that we acknowledge the Pastors voice was still heard in her yet so that the voice of false Shepheards have often out-cryed him yea cryed him down in many points of high concernment to his sheep Yet by Gods providence his voice was still heard and his Word or Scripture still preserved whereby the voice of false Shepheards might be discerned from the true one the Errors and Superstitions prevailing known from the Truth and faith once delivered When the voice of the great Pastor except ye eat the flesh c. Joh. 6. was generally mistaken in the Church and misapplyed to the communicating of Infants there was enough of his voice and word still heard in the Church to discover the Error and restore the Truth When Image-worship was cryed up by the second Nicene Council and advanced in the West by the Romish Bishops yet was there enough in the word and voice of the Shepheard known in the Church to condemn it in the Council of Frankford and elswhere When Pope John 22. defined the place of faithfull Souls to be out of Heaven till the Resurrection and enjoyned it to be professed by those that took degrees in the Universities yet was there enough still in that Church to condemn it in the Council of Florence When the voice of the Shepheard in those places Feed my sheep Joh. 21.16 Thou art Peter and upon this Rock Mat. 16.18 I have prayed for thee Luk. 22.32 was mistaken and mis-applyed for some Ages to advance the Popes Infallibility and power over all there was enough seen by the Council of Basil and Constance to define the contrary and conclude a Council to be above him And however the noyse again is greater in the Church of Rome for the Pope than a Council yet is there enough still heard in that Church by the French generally and all moderate Romanists to know the untruth of it So we say whatever becomes of the Cardinals marks Eminencie Antiquitie c. by which he would have her marked out for the onely Church in which the Pastors voice is to be heard the Romish Church hath failed in her doctrine cryed up Errours and Superstitions yet so that the Pastors voice hath been heard and his word so preserved there that enough to discover them And now to some applying of what hdth been said touching use of Reason and Judgement to our Case of Reforming We examined the Church of Rome by the Marks Eminencie Antiquity Succession We see they agree not to that alone nor that in Saint Augustines purpose as he applyed the like Marks to the Catholike Church Nor doe they imply that Church where barely found to be a Church designed by God to remaine uncorrupt much lesse to be the Infallible Interpreter of his Testament Also we examined that Church by that maine mark of Sanctity of Doctrine using our Reason and Judgement which they allow in this point and that the judgement of a National Church and found her so far from being Infallible that she was grosly corrupted in her Belief and Worship Of which we had apparent conviction from the evidence abovesaid to wit Scripture and Primitive practise either of which excels the judgement and authority of the present Church of Rome CHAP. XIII Our way opens not a gap to Sectaries NOw to the last part of the Objection The opening hereby of a Gap to all Heresie and Schism Answ Due use of Reason and Judgement does it not Sectaries that are gone out from us cannot 1. Pretend to such a way of Reforming the Church or to such a Judgement as our Reformation was brought about by they wanting the Authority which is needfull to it in every National Church They as Members of this Church owed obedience and subjection to the Government and Governours thereof by divine precept and could doe nothing as to a Reformation more than private men whereas the Church of England if under the Patriarchate of Rome according to Ecclesiastical Canon which would not have been contended about yet stood not bound to the usurped power thereof but being a National Church might justly eject that Usurpation and make Reformation within it self of all Errors maintained by that pretended Power and Authority 2. As for that wherein they dissent from this Church they cannot pretend to such Evidence we spoke of they doe not at all pretend to the practise and consent of the first Ages nor have they plain and evident Scripture but places unlearnedly wrested The Evidence required in dissenting from Authority is such as by expresse words or direct consequence is apparent to all that can use their Reason without prejudice of self-interest or faction But we must note a different evidence in regard of things propounded by the Church as matters of Faith and Worship and things enjoyned as circumstantials of Worship or pertaining to Order Discipline In the first sort the Church indeed stands bound to shew them evidently out of Gods Word to be such before they can be received by faith and full assent for such because it is the office of the Church or Governours thereof not to make such but to declare and propound them But they that will charge the Church in those Proposals with Heresie Superstition or Idolatry must have the full and apparent evidence aforesaid In the second sort Things Circumstantial and of Order and propounded only for such by the Church they that dissent and refuse to yeeld obedience must have most cleare evidence that such things are unlawfull and forbidden by Gods Word because that Word of God most evidently gives power to the Church to make constitute and ordaine such things and expresly commands obedience to Superiours Now for the things which the Church of Rome propounded and imposed as matters of Faith and Worship as she had not evidence for them out of Gods Word which was enough for our refusing them as matters of Faith and Worship so we had sufficient evidence of Scripture and Antiquity against them Whereas all that this Church of England propounds as matter of Faith and Worship is most clear by Scripture and consent of Antiquity So that it is most unreasonable for our Sectaries to deny it and impossible for them to have evidence against it Much lesse is it possible for them to be convinced out of Gods Word of the unlawfulnesse of
circumstantials and matters enjoyned as of Order and to have as apparent evidence for that conviction as Gods Word gives them for obedience to their lawfull Governours 3. Their pretending to be convinced in their judgement hinders not the Church of which they were members to use her own judgement and accordingly to proceed by censure and excommunication as iâ— said above cap. 9. And hereby was this Church held together in Unity no Sect or Heresie breaking forth which was not presently crushed till force of Arms bore down the free use of Ecclesiastick Authority and emboldened men to contemn it If therefore Sectaries shall say to us you allow us to use our Reason and Judgment in what you teach us True say we for your own satisfaction but not to abuse it against the Church But we doe not say they abuse it but have consulted our Guides and used all meanes we can for satisfaction We tell them you must bring evident Scripture and Demonstration against publick Authority of the Church having modestly propounded it attend the judgement thereof to which if you cannot assent inwardly yet yeild an exâ—erhal peaceable subjection so far as the matter questioned is capable of it which I adde because the matter questioned may be not so much in belief and opinion as in worship and external practise For that must necessarily discover it self and if it be such in any Church that a man cannot in conscience comply with and therefore cannot yeild external subjection so far as to doe or perform the same worship or practice yet ought he still to yeild a peaceable subjection in not resisting or reviling but quietly suffering if need be for the same under Authority But you that dissent from the Church of England have no such cause for any thing belonging to the substance of Worship And as for Circumstantials and matters of Order ye ought to shew as direct Scripture against the particulars as that which commands you to obey them which are over you And if your mis-informed conscience bade you forbear to submit to the doing of things enjoyned yet should you have had so much conscience of the expresse precept commanding obedience to Superiours as to forbear resistance and force and to have rather quietly and peaceably suffered under the censures of the Church and power of Authority set over you and you cannot but think it reasonable that the Church which is entrusted with others as well as you and hath the advantage of Authority and publick judgement should upon the not-appearing of your pretended evidence maintaine her Judgement and Authority and proceed against you as the preservation of Peace and Unity requires And thinke not because you are allowed to use your Reason and Understanding in order to your beleeving and reasonable serving of God you are therefore allowed to use force in order to the maintaining of your dissent from and disobedience to Authority For that God whose Truth and Service ye so much pretend is the God of Order and Peace 1 Cor. 14.33 not the Author of Confusion such as your violence has wrought in this Church and Land No other meanes or remedy has the Church to preserve Unity than by demonstrating the Truth to every mans conscience and censuring or casting out the Refractory Nor other feare can she cast upon her children to keep them in obedience than the losse of her Communion and their Answering it to God Nor was there any other Remedy in the Antient Church while destitute of help from the Secular power I meane no other Remedy proper to the society of the Church to keep men in her Communion CHAP. XIV Their vain pretence of Infallibility HEre the Romanists lay hold on a seeming advantage by pretence of an Infallible guidance in their Church telling their Proselytes that the Protestants acknowledge their Church fallible in her Proposals and therefore must leave men to their own reason and judgement but our Church is infallible in her Definitions How we Protestants leave men the use of their Reason and Judgement rather than leave them to their Reason Judgement has been shewn already and to the Romish pretence of Infallible guidance we say still could it be made good there would be no more to doe but every man upon understanding the terms and sense of her Definitions to submit his Reason and Judgement without farther enquiry how consonant they are to Gods revealed will and what warrant he has from thence to assent and believe them But here 's the weaknesse and vanity of that pretence This Infallibility which is pretended as the ground of all their belief has no ground it selfe to be believed * See below Chap. 27. c. as we shew by many most evident arguments and that which is alledged to take away mens Reason and Judgement must allow every man his Reason and Judgment in the examining of what is brought to prove it as was shewn above Chap. 11. c. Whereupon it will be harder to make men believe that pretence of Infallibility than to believe the proposals of Truth from Guides that pretend not to it but onely to the demonstration of that Truth by an Infallible Rule Hence it is easie to see which is more reasonable and likely to keep men in obedience to the Church Open and plaine dealing with them in the businesse of their salvation or false pretences The demonstration of Truth to every mans conscience or the Imperious dominion over other mens faith and consciences under pretence of Infallibility We say to men If you will be with us you shall see what you doe we require your obedience to what we demonstrate to be Gods will for you to believe and doe yet know your salvation is concerned in such obedience and be it at your utmost peril to gainsay The Church of Rome saith to men If you will come to me you must put out your Eyes resign up your Reason and Understanding and with implicite Faith give absolute submission and obedience to my Definitions CHAP. XV. Dividing from the Roman Church is not a dividing from the Catholike ANother of their maine Objections upon our division from them is That whatever the Doctrine or Faith be which we retained we divided from the whole Catholike Church holding Communion with no part of it To the same purpose is that which Cardinal Perron in his Letter to M. Casaubon and in his first book against the Kings Letter alledgeth That to be Catholike and avoid the note of Schism is not sufficient to hold the same Faith with the Catholike Church for so did the Donatists but to hold Communion also with it which the Donatists not doing were Schismaticks And in like manner he would conclude us to be Our Answer in generall is briefly this That we did not divide from the Catholike Church and that to a Communion with it is not required a full agreement in belief and practise with other parts of it No nor an actual Communion
with them alwaies and simply necessary and that our Case and the Donatists is different as St. Cyprian's and their case was Now to clear these more fully We say first It was neither our intent when we reformed to divide from the Catholike Church or any part of it neither did we We onely sought to reforme our selves leaving them to themselves We had indeed to doe only with the Roman Church which being a particular Church as it may utterly faile without failing of the Catholike Church so may it surely be in such a measure corrupted that it deserves to be divided from Yet our aime and intent was only to leave the Errours and Superstitions we practised with her and so to leave her no farther than her Communion was mixed with those Superstitious practises i. e to leave her no farther than she had left her self as we can prove or receded from what she was for belief and practise in the more antient and purer Times Now here 's the usual mistake and upon the Romanists part the common prejudice against us that they still take the Roman Church and her Communion for the Catholike and what they meet with in the Fathers touching the Catholike Church to this or like purpose that Communion with it is necessary that there is no salvation out of it they apply to the Roman or touching Communion with the Roman Church or Bishop to the proving any man Catholike thereby They appropriate it to that Church as a special prerogative when as the Fathers did also prove the like by communion with other Churches and Bishops confessedly Catholike although not so frequently because Roman Church and Bishop of it was then of all other most eminent Upon this double misapplication those many Testimonies which Cardinal Perron in his Epistle and Answer has heaped up out of St. Augustine and others come to no purpose For to be Extra Ecelesiam Romanam is not presently to be Extra Catholicam For though it was a good argument of old when that Church was eminently and confessedly sound to conclude affirmatively as the Fathers often did such were good Catholiques because in Communinion with that Church yet now since Rome is notoriously corrupt and unsound the argument will not hold to conclude Affirmatively Much lesse will it hold Negatively to argue such are no Catholiques because not in Communion with Rome Nay when Rome of old was sound in Belief and Doctrine it did not alwaies conclude the Negative as will appear by the Instances below of the Asian and Afriean Churches out of Communion with the Roman much lesse can it conclude Negatively now CHAP. XVI The Greek Church a Church and part of the Catholick FUrthermore besides the Roman we acknowledge other Christian Churches parts of the Catholique and we say wee are not out of Communion with them as the Church of Rome is by an actuall declaring of Non-communion to each other For though wee agree not with those Churches in all doctrines and practises which is not De facto necessary to the holding of Communion 'twixt parts of the Catholick yet we holding them still parts of the Catholick Church and they us and not pronouncing Non-communion to each other we both remain in the Unity or Matrice as Cyprian phrases it of the Catholike Church Now as to our opinion of the Greek Church we conceive their denying the procession of the Holy Ghost to be from the Son but yeelding it to be by the Son to be onely a difference in form of speech not of any Heretical meaning as they are acquitted by some learned Romanists And for their opinion and judgement of us we say that Censure of Jeremias one of their Patriarchs which the Romanists object against us as condemning the Protestant Doctrine in many points is not found to be warranted by any Authority of the Greek Church and to it we may oppose the judgement of Cyril their late Patriarch who approves our Church and doctrine But they ask seeing we left the Roman why did we not joyne to the Greek or some other Church or part of the Catholick Resp We were joyned with them in the Catholick Church as said before but if by joyning our selves to some other Church they meane holding and practising as that Church doth we say againe as above such agreement between the parts of the Catholick is not necessary to Catholick Communion 2. We say it was not necessary for us First because we were a National Church and therefore not bound to joyn so as to put our selves under any particular Church of one denomination Private persons indeed are bound so to be joyned to one Church or other which are parts of the Catholick Secondly because our worke was Reformation and casting off the Romish Errours and wee saw no particular Church but needed Reformation very much and therefore we could not joyne to any so as to agree with them in all doctrines and practises These considerations shew the many Testimonies brought out of the Fathers by the Romanists for necessity of Communion come not home to our case For as they are abused when applyed to the Communion of the Roman Church as above noted so are they not altogether applicable to the Catholick Church now as it stands in a condition far different from what it was in St. Augustines time At the time of the Reformation it was found divided in two parts accusing each other of Errour and Schism It was our part then to consider what Errours we had received by communion with the Romish Church and finding them to be many and great it was not for us to make any other part of the Catholike Church a rule or pattern of Reformation but to look to Gods Word and the Primitive practise when the Catholike Church was in such an intire estate that the above mentioned Testimonies were truly appliable to her Which Church is by both sides confessed and acknowledged to have been so right and sound that none could have cause to leave the Communion of any part of her Which Church also must be acknowledged to be of more Authority than the present Romish or Greeke Church From that Word of God was our Rule from that Primitive Church was our pattern and by holding to that rule and pattern as neare as we could if we cease to believe and practise many things as the Church of Rome doth or not agree in all doctrines and practises with other parts of the Catholique Church we cannot be said for that to have no Communion with the Catholike Church CHAP. XVII Of agreement and external Communion twixt the parts of the Catholike Church BUt further to cleare this point of actual communion and agreement betweene the parts of the Catholique Church by some Instances In the points of keeping Easter and Rebaptization it is evident First that the Asian and Roman in the one and the African and Roman in the other did not agree for doctrine and practise Secondly that they could not