another crown of glory to them But let us first see what that executive or coercive if it be lawfull to Sect. 2 cut A. S. a syllable shorter power is which the man with both hands and an importune bounty will needs bestow upon the Civill Magistrate 2 By what authority and upon what grounds he doth it For the first hee describes and states this power after this manner pag. 6. The Parliament pretends no Directive power in matters of Religion nor any executive power that is intrinsecall to the Church but only an executive coercitive and externall power which is not in but about the Church and for the Church whereby it compelleth refractory men to obey the Church And this authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito as they say to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato and jure in rem only till they become true Christians c. In this description the man is to me a Barbarian his own phrase to Sect. 3 the Apologists in the word Church I have bestowed thoughts more then a few to be partners with him in his notion of the word but quanto plus cogito eo minus capio For shame A. S. out with the beam of obscurity from your own eye before you tiffle again to pull the moat of obscurity out of your brothers eye A man in reason would think that the same word being used four or five times and that without the least intimation of any variety or difference of signification almost within the compasse of so many lines were still meant and to be taken in one and the same sense If so then ha with you The Parliament by that coercitive power which you are pleased here to bestow upon it by way of compensation for that directive power which you take from it compelleth say you refractory men to obey the Church I presume that by the Church here you do not mean all the particular Churches and Congregations in the kingdome in the folio of their respective members but in the decimo sexto of their Synod representative Assembly If you take the word in the former sense you only say that the Parliament hath power to compell the refractory to obey all the particular Churches with their severall members in the Kingdome which is a sense I conceive at as much defiance with your ends as with your and our understandings If you take it in the latter which I doubt not but is your beloved sense then your meaning is that the use and intent of that executive coercive power in matters of Religion which you put into the Parliaments hands is to compell the kingdome in case it be refractory or tot quot to obey the Presbyterie and Presbyteriall assemblies in all their Canons Determinations and Decrees whatsoever without bail or mainprise without mercy or compassion whether a man findes sap sense savour reason or Religion in them or no. But yet secondly I know not well how you should mean the Sect. 4 Church contracted in her Grand Presbyterie or Generall Assembly neither first because you affirm in this coercive power in the Parliament to be not in but about the Church and for the Church And I doubt your meaning is not that the Parliament should either only or chiefly work or act with this their coercive power upon your Ecclesiastique Assemblies to restrain and keep them within compass though I confess if it should move only or chiefly in this sphere it would be more for the Church i. for the good and benefit of the Church in generall then to suffer such assemblies to fit and impose oaths upon men to obey their acts orders and decrees which you tell us glorying in your shame pag. 42. is done in your Presbyteriall Government and to punish or crush those that shall have more conscience then to inslave themselves unto them in such a way And 2. if by Church you should here mean the Church representative as it is more commonly then properly called in her generall Assembly you would be a little more open then I conceive will well stand with your principles in such cases For then your meaning is plainly this That the Parliament hath that executive coercive power which you ascribe to it not for the Church i. the benefit of the Saints and servants of God throughout the kingdome but for the benefit and behoof of the Ecclesiastique Presbyteries and Assemblies only Now however I can easily believe that thus you would have it yet I conceive it somewhat eccentricall to your other motions to profess it And yet 3. when you immediately adde that in vertue of this authority when parties pretend to be effended by the Church or if the Church judge any thing amiss hee the civill Magistrate may command the Church to revise and examine its judgement c. You must needs mean your transcendent Church of Presbyters otherwise you should prevaricate and grant a judiciary power to particular Congregations 4. And lastly in the very next page pag. 7. to represent the voluntary Sect. 5 exile of the Apologists with as hard-favour'd an aspect in the eyes of men as he could his indignation against it utters it self in this Patheticall strain over the poor Church of God in this Kingdome And if they all had fled away what might have become of the poor Church of God in this Kingdome c. Here by the Church of God in this Kingdome he cannot mean the Ecclesiastique Church of representing Presbyters because if these had all fled away there had been no Church of God in such a sense in this Kingdome By the Church of God in this place if he means any thing like a man hee must needs mean the godly part in the Kingdom and that considered without their Presbyters or Pastours And oh that hee and his coopinatory party would but grant that that executive coercive power which is in the civil Magistrate is for this Church I mean for the benefit and peace of this Church of God But in the mean time you see that his Trumpet in the Description he gives of his executive coercive externall power in the Magistrate gives no distinct sound perhaps he blew wild on purpose lest an enemy should know how to prepare to battaile against him But is there never a blessing of reason or truth in all this cluster Come and see In vertue of this authoritie saith he when parties pretend to be offended Sect. 6 with the Church or the Church judge any thing amisse he the Civill Magistrate may command the Church to examine its judgement c. In these few words he hath plainly plundred and undone a very considerable partie of his owne beloved notions elsewhere For 1. What reason hath he to be so invective against the Apologists as he is pag. 49. and 50. for holding that Kings or civill Magistrates are above the Church when as himselfe here professeth that they may command the Church especially
over men may lawfully by vertue of such power be both parties and Judges is to exalt all manner of tyranny violence and oppression by a Law Upon such a supposition men invested with authority and power whether in Church or State may be their own carvers and serve themselves of the estates liberties and lives of those that are under them how and when as oft as they list And why doe you not submit to the decisive judgment of the King in all controversies depending between you and him if that be your doctrine For the third inconvenience so called I shall be your debtour to tell me plainly and distinctly what power more your government giveth to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker or the Hangman over a thousand I doe not remember where either your selfe or any of your party have calculated the proportion but I well remember a saying in Charron That every humane proposition hath equall authoritie Tout proposition humaine a autant d'authorite quel ' autre si la raison n'on fait la difference Charron de sagâ—sse Plus credendâ— est assertioni alicujus simplicis non authorizati excellenter in Scripturis eruditi quam declarationi Papae if reason make not the difference and another of Gerson much commended by Protestant Authors though the Author of it Pontificiall The saying of a simple man and no wayes authoriz'd if he be well seen in the Scriptures is rather to be beleeved then the Popes own determination But A. S. what makes you thinke for I can easily guesse what makes you say that the government of the Apologists gives no more power to a thousand Churches over one then to a Tinker or Hangman over a thousand Vbi â—uando quibus testibus did this government or any son it hath ever make any such comparison or so farre honour either your Tinker or Hangman as to make them equall in power to a thousand Churches And yet I suppose if a man should say that the dust in the ballance hath as much life in it as the Sunne it would be no disparagement to this excellent and glorious creature because the excellencie of it doth not stand in any degrees or superiority of life above any other creature but in the aboundance of light which it hath and the height of its situation and the serviceablenesse of it to the world by means of both In like manner if it be supposed which I think upon what hath been delivered may very reasonably be supposed that the glory and excellencie of Churches doth not stand in any power or authority that one hath over another or many over one but in other farre more rich and holy and honourable endowments relations and qualifications it can be no prejudice or disparagement unto ten thousand of them to say they have no more authority over one then A. S. his Tinker or Hangman hath over them Therefore if A. S. his admired peece of Church-policie hath no greater commendation then to serve for preventing such Inconveniences as this the world needs make no great lamentation over it though it were in the condition of Rachels children when she wept for them and would not be Matth. 2. 18. comforted Some other inconveniences there are wherein A. S. findes the Government which he opposeth tardie and thinkes he sets a crown of glory upon the head of his Presbytery in vindicating the innocencie of it in respect of such guilt But alas he washeth off this guilt with blood or with water fouler then it as hath been shewed and condemneth his government in that wherein he mainly alloweth it The guilt is innocencie in respect of the purgation There is one inconvenience formerly opened and insisted upon in this chapter very incident to Presbytery the conscience whereof me thinks should make all the sons of that way rather to cover and compassionate then to complain or cry out of any inconvenience they either see or rather think they see in another Chap. 5. Whether the Apologists and men of their judgement may lawfully and without danger or prejudice to the State be tolerated and whether A. S. his reasons to the contrarie be of sufficient weight to perswade either to the banishment erushing or suppressing of them in any kind HE that hath read the precedent part of this discourse and doth though but with the lowest degree of impartialitie consider what hath been argued between the two wayes Presbytery and Apologisme cannot lightly but mourne over the title of this chapter and think him to be a man of iron entrails that should give occasion to such a Question as is there propounded Suppose the opinion maintained in the latter part of the second Chapter were wav'd and such a coercive power in matters of Religion as A. S. contends for allowed in the Magistrates hand yet that any man should plead for the drawing of this sword against those men who first have such a considerable strength if not of evidence yet of reason for what they practise and professe secondly have a like if not a more considerable strength against that way of government which they cannot submit to Thirdly are by their fiercest adversaries and opposites themselves acknowledged ten times over for very pious godly and learned men Fourthly have been at least the generalitie of them and so continue men of the most affectionate and withall the most effectuall activitie and forwardnesse to promote the great cause of Religion Parliament and Kingdome Fifthly are as deep in or if you will as much out of their estates rateably for the support of this cause as any other sort of men whatsoever Sixthly have many of them such as were meet for such a service adventur'd their persons and lives in the face of the rage and furie of the common enemie continuing still in the same engagements Yea seventhly and lastly have some of them exposed themselves to more danger and harder termes from the adverse party then ordinary in case they should prevaile by a publick vindication of the cause of the Parliament in print from the Scriptures and that before any man of differing judgment from them in Church affairs appeared in the cause upon such termes that any man I say on this side of malignancie should consult the sorrow trouble disgrace suppression ruine of men so holy so harmlesse of such eminent desert in the cause of Religion State Kingdome me thinkes should exceed the line of humanity and be thought some inspiration or suggestion from the great enemy of mankind Neverthelesse if either God Reason the peace or safety of the Kingdome require the sorrows or sufferings of these men I make no question but they will be willing to dispense with all considerations whatsoever that stand up to plead their immunitie and will with Isaac patiently suffer themselves to be bound yea and to be offered up in sacrifice also if need be Onely their humble request and suit is that they may not be
declare the grounds reasons of their judgments in each particular and not compell them either to keep them burning or glowing in their own breasts or else to propagate and vent them privatly and amongst persons that have neither learning nor abilities in any kind to encounter or oppose them this is another hopefull signe that the dayes of a generall accommodation in matters of religion are comming upon the world The reason of this is plain because till truth reigne among the Saints Peace is not like to reigne the reason whereof hath been already given nor will Truth ever reigne like unto herself till all her enemies I mean errors and misprisions in matters of Religion be subdued and brought under her feet Nor is there any likelihood in a way of reason or ordinary providence that such enemies of the truth should ever be subdued til they come to look those sons of Truth in the face who are anointed by God with a spirit of wisdome and understanding for the confutation and utter abolishment of them Doubtlesse one main reason why errours and fond and foul opinions do still propagate prevail with so high an hand amongst us is because these Ministers and Teachers are suffered to have none other vent for them but only amongst people that are children in understanding and not furnished with strength of knowledge or parts of learning to withstand them The common proverb hath somwhat in it to this purpose Inter eaecos etiam luscus potest regnaâ—e A man with one eye will make a goodly King over those that are blind Reader the Preface hath done with thee and recommends thee to the Booke where it wisheth a happy greeting between thy judgment and the truth Chap. 1. Concerning the directive power in matters Ecclesiasticall and which concern Religion whether how or in what sense it may be conceived to reside in the civill Magistrate Synods or other men Sect. 1. A. S. Pag. 5. hath this left-handed expression concerning the civill Magistrate That he arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion The Reader must do him a courtesie in finding him out a very soft sense for the word arrogate otherwise he will be found in a misprision of a foul insinuation against the Civill Magistrate as viz. that he arrogates i. in the ordinary construction of the word proudly assumes to himself when he claims or exerciseth that executive coercive externall power in and about matters of Religion which yet A. S. himself in the very next page knowing on which side to butter his owne bread ascribes unto him For as he that should say of A. S. by way of commendation that he never corrupted a matron or woman in marriage should yet hereby reflect a shrewd suspition upon him that his innocency in this kind could not so well be avouched in respect of Virgins or others of that sex out of matrimoniall relation in like maner A. S. himself intending an honorable purgation or vindicatioÌ„ of the civil Magistrate in these words That he arrogates not to himself any directive power in matters of Religion doth he not by the same rule of Antithetical relation or implication imply that he doth arrogate another power which stands in a Relative opposition to it which according to his own distribution is an executive coercitive external power in about matters of religion but I marvel that the man should here so cleanly wipe the civil Magistrate of a directive power in matters of Religion when as but a few pages before in his 8. Observ he had pleaded wisdome enough in the Parliament to know what is convenient for the Church of God If the Parliament be wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church I know no reason why that Directive power here spoken of should be derogated or taken from them especially by those who it is much to be feared are much straitned in respect of a spirit of that wisedome themselves Surely A. S. in saying that the Parliament is wise enough to know what is convenient for the Church hath sifted the Synod or Assembly with a sieve of vanity and broke the head of the necessity thereof so is guilty of a far higher misdemeanour against it then the Apologists are in any thing that they have done or said yea or then himself layeth to their charge which yet is his rod of scorpions to scourge them from place to place Turpe est Doctori cum culpa redarguit ipsum Sect. 2. But let us consider a little more narrowly whether A. S. hath quited himself like a Doctor of the Chaire in stripping the civill Magistrate of a Directive power in matters of Religion and putting on him in stead thereof the purple robe of an executive coercitive and externall power only pag. 6. 1. By such an umpirage and decision as this between the civill Magistrate and himself with his fellow Presbyters hath he not made the one Iudex and the other Carnifex the one must give the sentence the other must do the execution The Civil Magistrate is much beholding to the Presbyter for giving of him a consecrated sword to fight the Presbyterian battells and for perswading him to pull out his own eys upon this presumption that he shall see better with his I perceive Presbyterie is policy in the highest and seeks to put the Magistrate between it self and the envie and discontent of the people and yet nevertheless hopes to gain from the hand of the Magistrate such an interpretation of this practice as thereby to be esteemed the best and faithfullest friend it hath in all the world This cunning of the spirit we now speak of puts me in minde of the Ape that took the Spaniels foot to pull the Chess-nut out of the fire Surely the frame and constitution of Presbyterie is exactly calculated for the meridian of this present world but whether it will indifferently serve for that which is to come totus dubito I am in doubt all over And indeed A. S. himself is somwhat ingenuous in acknowledging that this government hath litle or no relation unto or compliance with the world which is to come professing p. 13. the externall peace of the Church to be the adaequate end thereof 2. I would gladly be informed whether A. S. thinks it reasonable Sect. 3 meet or Christian that the civill Magistrate should immediately hand over head without distinction without searching for his owne satisfaction into the equitablenesse and lawfulnesse of what a Presbyterie or Synod shall commend unto him for execution interesse himselfe in the execution of whatsoever shall be so recommended and presented unto him I presume A. S. will not arrogate unto himselfe nor to his Assembly an infallibilitie though in some places I find him very loath to abate this in the reckoning if it would be allowed and the truth is that the whole fabrique well-nigh of his discourse to make it rationall and any thing to
his own Maxime elsewhere being this that Par in parem non habet imperium and that Where there is no Superiour or Inferiour there can be no obedience or disobedience Non huc non illuc exemplo nubis aquosae 2. If the civill Magistrate hath power to command the Church to revise Sect. 7 her judgment when she judgeth any thing amisse surely he hath power to examine and judge of her proceedings whether they be regular equall and just or no except you will say that he comes to the knowledge of your it regular and undue proceedings in your Presbyteries by immediate revelation Suppose either the one or the other what reason have you to deny him part and fellowship with you in that Directive power in matters of Religion which you ingrosse and appropriate to your selves as we have formerly seen 3. If so then your Presbyteriall Assembly or judging Church may determine and judge amisse And if so 1. how dare yee compell or make the people under your government to sweare obedience or subjection unto your orders which yet by your own confession pag. 42 ordinarily you doe 2. Why are you not satisfied with that subjection to your Presbyteriall Decisions which pleadeth no exemption but only in the case of non-satisfaction about the lawfulnesse or truth of them You give men a good foundation a liberty to beleeve that you may erre but you will not suffer them to build upon it to refuse you when they think in their souls and consciences that that you doe erre They that will separate between such premisses and such conclusions will hardly make good Christians themselves or suffer others so to be And if you be but ingenuously willing to goe along with this your own principle That you may erre as farre as it would gladly lead you me thinks I durst undertake that the Apologists and you shall comprimize before to morrow next 4. And lastly if parties may have cause to be offended and not Sect. 8 onely pretend to be offended as A. S. would minde it with the Church as out of all question they may if the Church may judge amisse then have they power to judge of their actions as well as they of theirs No man is justifiable in his complaint or offence taking but he that hath a power to examine and judge of that which gives the cause or ministers the occasion of the offence And if a single partie which is no Presbyter or Prophet in your sense hath a lawfull power to examine and judge of the acts and orders of a Presbyteriall or Propheticall Assembly and may possibly by means of such an examination take them tardie do not so far magnifie the spirits of your Prophets against the spirits of our Saints as to think these good for nothing but to swear homage and vassalage unto them But A. S. surely pleaseth himselfe highly with a parcell of distinctions Sect. 9 which he presents us within the prementioned Description and hopes perhaps to make an atonement with them for his confusionâ— otherwise First He distinguisheth of that executive coercive power wherewith he invests the civill Magistrate as not being in or intrinsecall unto the Church but externall and about the Church Secondly he distinguisheth the subject capable of this power the civill Magistrate into truly Christian and not truly Christian Thirdly upon this distinction he builds a third distinction concerning the manner of the competencie of this power to the one kind of subject and the other telling us that this power or authority belongs actually and in effect in actu exercito jure in re to true Christian Magistrates but to others potentially in actu signato and jure in rem onely till they become true Christians The man you see hath much adoe to find or come at that power Sect. 10 wherewith he would so fain gratifie the civill Magistrate in matters of Religion He adjures three unclean spirits of distinctions to tell him what and where it is and yet they doe but peep and matter in their answer and make no man the wiser by it Here he seeks for the coercive power of the civill Magistrate in matters of Religion in the same black sea of darknesse and confusion wherein he seekes and would make the world beleeve he finds the Presbyterian government afterwards But if the one and the other be cloz'd up in such an ammunition of rockes of distinctions as A. S. represents them in his story certainly they are inaccessible to the judgements and consciences of persons of mean capacity and much more inaccessible to the judgments and consciences of more understanding and considering men The very darknesse it selfe of the distinctions which he is necessitated to use to make his way to come at the one and at the other is a light sufficient to discover that neither the one nor the other is any where to be found within the territories either of reason or of truth But let us see the distinctions play a little before us for their Masters credit For the first The Magistrates power saith he viz. in matters of Religion for so he must necessarily be understood by the Antithesis in the former clause or member of this Distinction where he denies a Directive power unto him in matters of Religion is not in or intrinsecall to the Church but extrinsecall and about the Church Is it in i. intrinsecall to matters of Religion and but extrinsecall in respect of the Church So then it seems A. S. his Presbyteriall Church is somewhat more inward intimate and intrinsecall then the religion of this Church otherwise how should the power of the Magistrate penetrate into the Religion thereof and yet not reach into but onely unto the Church it selfe By this distinction he hath utterly disgrac'd his Presbyteriall Government by making the Churches under it more internall and inward then the religion that is to be found in them If the Apologists had but whispered one tittle of such a saying though at never such a distance it had been enough to have produced seven reasons more at least against their toleration then are yet levied or brought forth into the world But 2ly though you seem to deale very bountifully with the Magistrate Sect. 11 in giving him a power extrinsecall and about the Church and to content your selfe and your compresbyters with an intrinsecall power onely yet by somewhat that hath been lately printed it appeares that you mean to eate at the same Table with him which you pretend to spread for him alone For hath not the Presse very lately been delivered of this peece of Presbytery that the Classicall Presbytery hath Reformation cleared p. 23. the authoritative power of Citation just as the Bishops had And is not such a power externall and which is not in but about the Churches For if a Classis shall cite or excommunicate a member of a Church against the judgement and consent of the Elders of that Church let all the world
somewhat narrowly throughout the Sect. 16 whole volume of his Discourse to finde something that with any indulgence of imagination might be conceived to look like a proof of this his opinion and can finde none save only that poor one of the examples of the Kings of Juda pag. 63 inforc'd after this manner It is the Civill Magistrates part to take away Heresies Superstitions and corruptions in manners after the examples of the Kings of Juda. Wherefore then is it not his duty likewise to take away all Schismes which are the high way to and sometimes from Heresie and consequently to deny Toleration which is a way to both Reader neither you nor I must be offended to have a mole-hill of proof given us for a mountain of conclusion You must know it is the manner of the Presbyterian School to hang great weights upon small wyars For what need Dictators argue But 1. If it be the Magistrates part to take away Superstitions Heresies c. Sect. 17 sure it is his part also to make himself able to discern superstitions and heresies from the true worship and truths of God Hee is to serve God in such a practice with his own understanding and not by the Proctorage of Presbyterie as you tell the Apologists pag. 48. that they must not serve God by a Proctor and if so you must untruss and deliver back again to him that Directive power in matters of Religion which you lately took from him 2. When the Magistrate takes away Superstition Heresie c. hee Sect. 18 had need have better security then a Synod can give him to save him harmless in case he should mistake and smite the truth of God in stead of Heresie and the true worship of God in stead of Superstition Gamaliel Act 5. 24. 28. 38 39. might have had the full Vote of a Synod or Councell for persecuting the Superstition Schisme and Heresie of the Apostles but this was not security enough to him he was afraid of fighting against God this notwithstanding And for my part when the civill Magistrate shall be far enough out of this danger of fighting against God I have nothing to say against his fighting with Superstition Heresie Schisme corruptions in manners c. Only my prayer for him unto God is that hee would give him a wife and understanding heart to consider and discern whether usurpation over the judgements and consciences of the Saints of God in matters of Religion be not as grand a corruption in manners as a Church or Kingdom is lighly incident unto 3. Because the examples of the Kings of Judah for want of better Sect. 19 arguments are so much importun'd to speak a good word for that executive coercive power in the Civill Magistrate with which A. S. would truk with him for that Directive power before spoken of let us consider with a little more freedome and ingenuity what they contribute thereunto 1. We do not read that any of the good Kings of Judah ever offered any violence to the true Prophets or people of the Lord except it were in passion as a Chron. 16. 10. where Asa is said to have been wroth with the Seer that admonished him and to have put him in prison Which fact of his I think A. S. himself will be asham'd to present either to Kings or Parliaments for imitation Therefore whatsoever besides may be prov'd from the example of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion towards the rearing up of a Presbyterie in the perfection of its glory certain it is that nothing can be proved for the persecuting annoying crushing disgracing banishing fining the Apologists whom himself more then once or twice acknowledgeth for very pious godly and learned men 2. Neither did any of these Kings ever compell any man to be of the Jewish Religion nor yet to profess the Jewish Religion against their judgements It was permitted to persons of other Nations to live amongst them without being circumcised yea or without smarting for want of it 3. Nor do we reade that ever they attempted any thing against any Sect. 20 Sectaries or Schismatiques as A. S. would call them which yet abounded in great variety and numbers amongst them We do not finde that ever they finde imprison'd banished put to death either Scribes or Pharisees or Herodians or persons of any other Sect in the profession of the Jewish Religion that lived peaceably in their State Idolatry and Idolaters were it seems the adaequate object of their coercive power in matters of Religion 4. Nor did they nor were they to inflict any outward punishment Sect. 21 upon every kinde of Idolater though of the Jewish both Nation and Religion as first not upon covetous persons who yet are a kinde of Idolater Epbes 5. 5. Nor secondly upon those that worshipped the true God of Israel though with some violation of the second Commandement as when they sacrificed in the high places c. But first upon such only who apostatiz'd from the God of Israel to serve strange gods the gods of other Nations And yet secondly not upon such neither simply as such but as attempting to intice and draw away other of the people of God unto the same Idolatries with them Deut. 13. 5 8 9. 5. There are two reasons very considerable why the Kings of Judah Sect. 22 might be invested by God with a larger power in matters of Religion then Kings or Magistrates under the Gospel have any ground or warrant to claim from them First they were types of Christ which no King under heaven at this day is Secondly not the people only but the very Land over which they ruled were typicall also the one of the spirituall Church of Christ the other of the heavenly inheritance of that Church both of them holy and consecrate in speciall manner unto God If Kings and Magistrates under the Gospel can plead either these reasons or any other of equall consideration with these I shall not scruple an acknowledgement of an equality of power in them But otherwise to alledge the power of the Kings of Judah in matters of Religion for an investiture of Kings and Magistrates under the Gospel with the like justifies the arguing of the Prelaticall School which pleads the order of the Aaronicall Priesthood to demonstrate the necessity of a Metropoliticall soveraigntie 6. It no where appears that any of the godly Kings of Judah ever Sect. 23 had or exercised any power to suppress banish imprison trample upon crush or grinde the faces of any godly persons among them were they few or many only because they were for a while tender in point of conscience to concurre with the major part of the Priests Scribes or Levites in some things disputable between them and others in the Land Vntill A. S. shall dig such a treasure as this out of the Scriptures hee will never have sufficient wherewith to finish that tower of a Magistraticall coercive power in matters of Religion which he
thing that is lawfull no nor yet by every thing that is otherwise necessary and fitting to be done Were not this a ridiculous reasoning The Scripture exhorts to live godlily in this present world but this cannot be procured by eating and drinking Therefore eating and drinking are not to be tolerated Apagecruentas nugas Whereas you adde that a Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new Schismes and divisions We answer first that this allegation we have answered already once and againe yet secondly we adde that many inconveniences sicknesses diseases come by eating and drinking yet are these to be tolerated in the world Thirdly we plead for no toleration of any Sect nor of any thing so called but which may stand with the utmost that either A. S. with his pen or his whole partie with theirs can doe against them to suppresse them Fourthly we hav◠〈…〉 prov'd that Apologisme is neither Sect nor Schisme no more then A. Ssisme is Fifthly and lastly whereas you say That a Toleration of Sects cannot but daily beget new Schismes c. We answer first that Gods toleration or long-suffering towards sinners doth not onely lead all sinners to repentance but also bring many thereunto And why should not mans toleration expect an effect answerable hereunto Secondly the disciples in the ship were as much afraid that their dear Lord and Master had been a foule spirit and would have sunk them in the Sea as A. S. is afraid of a Toleration that it must needs beget new Schismes and divisions daily But as the feared Destroyer proved the experienced preserver of that ship and mâ—n so may A. S. his feared propagator of Schismes and Divisions bee found an experienced destroyer and dissolver of them That means of all other which hath God in it is likest to doe the deed And God we know was neither in the tempest nor in the earthquake nor in the fire but in the still voice His tenth reason being help'd riseth up in this forme If there was a His 10 Reason answered greater difference amongst the members of the Church of Corinth in the time of S. Paul and yet they communicated together and that by the Apostles exhortation then ought not the Apologists to be tolerated But true is the former therefore the latter also We answer first that the fabrick of your Argument is built upon a false foundation or supposition viz. that the reason why the Apologists refuse communion with you you mean I suppose in your sacramentall actions is because of the latitude weight or degree of the differences in iudgment between you and them whereas the reason of their refusall in this kinde is the nature or particularity of the difference together with your practice depending upon your opinion in opposition unto theirs not the height weight or importance of either A difference in judgement about the lawfulness of stinted forms of prayer is nothing so materiall or weighty as a difference about the nature of Faith Justification c. yet the lighter difference in this case makes persons so differing uncapable of joyning together in Communion in the use of such prayers whereas the greater difference would not Secondly if there were so many and great differences amongst the members of the Church of Corinth as you speak of and yet Paul no wayes perswaded or incouraged the predominant or major party amongst them either to cast out cut off or suppress the underling parties but exhorted them unto mutuall communion c. Why do not you content your self with the line of the same process and in stead of disgracing quashing crushing trampling on only exhort the Sects and Schismes amongst you unto mutuall communion and to the forbearance of Sects and Divisions a practice which you do well to take notice of in the Apostle but do ill to think that your own of club-law is better Thirdly and lastly nor do wee know any ground or good bottome you have for your assumption wherein you affirm that there was greater difference amongst the members of the Church of Corinth then is between the Apologists and you Old Ipse dixit is made to carry this burthen alone Your eleventh Reason is very corpulent but less active the chief His 11. Reason answered ingredients of it being Abbots and Priors Convents and Monasteries amongst the Papists St Francis St Dominick and the Donatists with whose opinion and practice you say the opinion of your Brethren too much symbolizeth We answer first that Theologia symbolica non est argume tativa Angels and Devils agree in something yet this agreement is no impeachment either to the holiness or happiness of the Qui ut uni haresi suae adâ—tum â—â—â—facâ—râ—t cunctarum haeres â—â— blâ—sphâ—mâ—as â—â—â—ctabatur Vincent Lyr. cap. 16. Angels A. S. himself symbolizeth with Nestorius the Heretique in one property of whom Vincentius Lyrinensis reporteth that to make way for his own heresie or opinion hee fell heavie upon all heresies beside Secondly whereas he affirmeth that the opinion of his Brethren is not unlike to the Convents and Monasteries amongst the Papists certainly the unlikeness between them is far greater then that between an Apple and an Oister We cannot but wonder how or in what respect the man should conceive that an inward spirituall and notionall thing as an opinion is should be like a great building made of lime and stone or a pack of die fellows in a fat Fraternity Thirdly whereas hee insinuates a hatefull similitude between his Brethren and the Donatists who hee tels us separated themselves from other Churches under pretext that they were not so holy as their own We answer first that this insinuation will not so much as in shew touch all the Apologists however because some of them we believe have no Churches of their own and therefore they cannot pretend more holiness in them then in others Secondly that neither in substance or truth doth it touch any of them or their opinion For first they do not separate from other Churches but only in such opinions and practices wherein they cannot get leave of their consciences to joyn with them the one half at least of which separation is made even amongst their Churches themselves one from another one dissenting from another not only in many opinions but in some materiall practices as before was touch'd and that from A. S. his own pen no wayes partiall you may think in such a case Secondly we would know whether A. S. himself and his party doth not as much symbolize with the Donatists in that criticall property or practice we speak of as the Apologists For under what pretext do they separate from the Church of Rome and from Episcopall Churches but only this that they think not their Churches to be as holy as their own If they separate from them upon any other grounds it were not much materiall though they held communion with them still Yea thirdly if they do not think their Presbyteriall
them will you turne Turk that you may not suffer Turkish insolencies and thraldome Surely you forget your argument insisted upon in your eleventh Reason There you make symbolizing with Papists a reason against your Brethren and their Opinions why they should not be tolerated and here you make a defect or want in them of symbolizing with them a reason likewise why they should not be tolerated It seems contradictions inconsistences impertinences unintelligibilities sense nonsense any thing nothing will serve to make reasons against the poor Independenters as you call them why they must not be tolerated Was not the consideration of your own pag. 14. that the Devill evermore assaults more the true Church the true Doctrine and true Discipline then the corrupted Church her corrupted Doctrine or Discipline a far better sanctuary for your Churches against those Popish calumnies you speak of then a correspondence with them to keep you in unity and conformity But this Reason we have answered formerly Your nineteenth Reason is very concise In this you only say that His 19. reason answered of such a Toleration follows all you formerly deduced out of Independencie And so it may without putting the world to much damage or sorrow When we cast up your deductions of inconveniencies out of Independency wee found them counterballanced to the height with the exits from Presbyterie If you poyse your wallet well you will the end that hangs at your back the heavier But for answer to this Reason I refer the Reader to the former Chapter His twentieth Reason is somewhat of a differing strain from the His 20. reason answered rest The ground and bottome of it seems to be a desire of a plausible insinuation with the Assembly under a pretence of jealousie over them lest they should suffer in point of honour in case his Brethren should obtain a Toleration But first good A. S. why must it needs be thought in case it should be granted unto them that it was extorted by force of Reason or that all the Assembly were not able to answer your Brethren This suggestion smels of worse blood about the heart then all the Reasons hitherto Fearing it seems that all ingagements upon the Assembly in point of conscience to deny the Apologists a Toleration might fail and prove ineffectuall that way hee seeks here to ingage them in point of honour by way of reserve telling them in effect that howsoever their consciences might favour the Independenters in point of Toleration yet their credits and reputations would suffer by it Yet let the suggestion be but a little look'd into and it will be found to reflect no great matter of grace or commendation upon the Assembly it self For if no favour or courtesie can be thought to come from them but that which is extorted by reason and the deniall whereof they cannot answer it is a sign that they are not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. easie to be intreated full of mercy and good fruits which yet the Holy Ghost makes the standing characters of that wisdome which is from above James 3. 17. Whereas hee adds that their opinion and demands are against all reason and that sundry of them could not deny as much and had nothing to say but that it was Gods Ordinance Wee answer first that what A. S. his standart is whereby he measures Reason we are not so well acquainted with him as to know but according to ours this assertion of his opens seven times wider against all reason then either the opinion or demands of his Antagonists First for their opinion we believe that somewhat more then non-sense or irrationalities hath been argued by themselves in the Assembly for it Is it like that very learned men and of abilities to dispute their opinion in any Assembly in Europe which are A. S. own letters of recommendation on their behalf should rise up to defend an opinion that is contrary to all reason And somewhat like unto reason at least so called amongst our vulgar apprehensions hath been said for it in the preceding part of this Discourse And secondly for their Demands though A. S. doth not inform us what they are or wherein that fiery contestation against all reason which he findes in them consists yet we suppose he means their suing for a Toleration that high misdemeanor for which he hath judged them now these ten times Was it or is it or would it be against all reason for the poor Protestant Churches in France to sue for a Toleration in the state if it were not granted unto them without suing Or is it not much more agreeable to reason that Protestant Churches should be tolerated in a Protestant State then in a State Pontificiall especially in such a Protestant State of which they have so eminently deserved as the Apologists and their Churches and men of their judgement have done of this as was briefly touched in the beginning of this Chapter Or is it against all reason that those persons in the Low-countreys between whose judgements there is that known variety of differences in matters of Religion and which concern the worship of God being not able so well to accommodate themselves for livelihood and subsistence in any other State with the freedome of their consciences should desire a Toleration in that Suppose those men of your judgement of whom you speak pag. 10. who were as you there say condemned to death for their Discipline ready to be executed and were afterwards exiled into forrain countreys Suppose I say these men had desired a Toleration in their own countrey of those who thus unreasonably dealt with them had they violated all Rules and Principles of Reason by such a desire But the truth is that the assertion is so notoriously against all reason that it is scarce consistent with reason to bestow so much pen in answer to it There is but one only supposition to make either reason or truth of it if it be granted it may passe for both If the desires of some Presbyterians be All Reason and nothing reason but they then both the Opinion and Demands of the Apologists must be acknowledged to be against all Reason But otherwise I know no principle or rule of reason at all so much as discourtesied by either Secondly whereas you say that sundry of themselves could not deny it and had nothing to say c. First certain I am that some of them have absolutely denied any such confession Secondly the acknowledgement it selfe looks no more like any of the rest then a meer fiction doth the Relator I beleeve that upon inquirie it will be found a misprision of truth For doth it not sound aloud incredibilitie that men of sufficient abilities to dispute their opinion in any Assembly in Europe should confesse their Opinion and Demands to be against all reason But such stones as these are fit for A. S. his building Thirdly whereas you say that they could never shew their opinion out
bend and strain and force them out of their owne rectitude and streightness because otherwise they wil not countenance or comply with them in their crooked ends but condemn them He that intends to make hoops of a clean streight-bodies tree must in the working of it alter the comely shape and streightnesse of it wherein it grew and bend and crook and bow quite round all that he imployeth of it to such a purpose whereas he whose Art and intent is to make Javelins Lances Pikes or the like of such a tree hath no occasion to alter the native shape or figure of it in point of streightnesse because Nature it self had fitted it to his hand in this respect for such uses and purposes as these nay this man should do against himselfe if he should alter them In like manner they who seeke themselves in wayes and ends which contradict the lawfull peace and comforts of other men if withall they desire to have their proceedings countenanced and attested by the Scripture for just and good they must of necessity suborn them and make them speak what the holy Ghost never meant they should speak whereas those men who value not regard not themselves but in their order and due subordination and are willing to gird themselves and serve til God and men have first eaten and can be content with the reversions and broken meat of their table be they never so mean these men I say need not solicit or importune the Scriptures for their testimony or compliance with them in their way because their native inspiration from God leads them willingly yea rejoycingly yea triumphantly hereunto Such men should but prevaricate with themselves and their own ends if they should go about to make one haire of the head of the Scripture either black or white which the holy Ghost hath not made such to their hand Therefore whiles some men shall seeke to adorn their own names and reputations with the plunder and spoyls of other mens and lay the foundations of their owne greatnesse in the rulnes of the lawfull comforts and peace of others there is no hope of a generall or through accommodation in matters of religion It is impossible that such men should comport with the truth in their way and consequently with those who embrace the truth Nor will any method of violence as either imprisoning fining crushing suppressing banishing cutting off by death or the like be able to advance that unity and accord which we al lust after though some in Gods way others in their own the very ghosts and shadows and memories of those that shal suffer in any of these kinds for conscience towards God will be as so many spirits of divisions dissentions and distractions amongst those that will chuse no other Arbitrators to comprimize their differences but the Sword and Blood Another figne of those Halcyon days approaching so much desired by us all wherin all gusts and winds storms of contrary doctrines opinions and Sects in religion shal be turned into a sweet calm of an universal unity and accord is this when Apostles Prophets Evangelists Pastors and Teachers shall be no more turned into Councels Synods and secular Armes I mean when men shall be freely permitted without feare or danger of molestation to consult with the Apostles Prophets c. of what religion it were best for them to be without having their judgments emancipated forestalled and over-awed by the definitive and compulsory determinations and allowances of other men The reason hereof is because the writings of the Apostles Prophets Evangelists with the Ministery of faithfull Pastors and Teachers are sanctified and set apart by God for this very end and purpose namely the perfecting the Saints c. till they all come into the unity of the Faith c. Therefore whilst Councels Synods c. shall intrude or step in as new Apostles Ephes 4 13. Prophets and Evangelists of another order between those Apostles Prophets and Evangelists and those Pastors and Teachers which Christ hath given for the setling of an universall peace and unity throughout all the Churches of his Saints in due time to interrupt intercept them in their work and way so that they can never have the judgments consciences of men in their native ingenuity and freedome to work upon but still upon the disadvantage of Synodical impressions and forestallments partly with fear partly with favour partly with hope and conceit of the truth there is little hope of seeing the vision of joy and glory in the world I mean the Saints and Servants of Jesus Christ universally kissing and embracing one another in the armes of unity truth and peace It is in vain to wash in Abanah or Pharphar when onely the waters of Jordan are sanctified for the cure To commit adultery is not the way to increase though flesh and blood should determine for it They shall eate saith God and not have enough they shall commit adultery and not increase because they have left off to take heed unto the Lord that is because they had substituted their own wisdome and inventions in stead of his for bringing their desires and ends to passe Hos 4. 10. Thirdly and lastly when the generality of men professing godliness and religion shall be content to furnish themselves with religion I mean with knowledge in religion by smaller parcels as the stock of their own judgements and understanding shall be able from time to time to accommodate them and shall make scruple of taking it up by whole sale from Synods Councels and Books only for ease and cheapness sake this also is as the putting forth of the Fig-tree which shewes the Summer of an universall accord amongst the Saints to be at hand The reason is because God hath promised and will perform accordingly that if men shall apply their heart to understanding and shall cry after knowledge and seek her as silver and search for her as for hid treasure they shall then understand the feare of the Lord and find the knowledge of God Prov. 2. 2 3 4. But there is no promise made that they who to favour themselves and to gratifie the flesh and to save the labour of seeking and searching after knowledge shall take in the dictates and resolutions of men and call them knowledge and understanding without any more adoe shall either find the fear of the Lord or true knowledge of God Now till men shall generally find the fear of the Lord and the true knowledge of God which is not like to be out of that way which the promise of God mentioned hath sanctified thereunto there will be little hope of the generall meeting of men in the bond of peace as was formerly argued in another of these signes Fourthly and lastly when Christian States and men of soundest judgment greatest learning parts and abilities therein shal give free liberty to men look'd upon as opposite in judgment to the truth to publish and openly