Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	authority_n	church_n	person_n	1,479	5	5.0691	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A86484	A rejoynder to Master Samuel Eaton and Master Timothy Taylor's reply. Or, an answer to their late book called A defence of sundry positions and scriptures, &c. With some occasionall animadversions on the book called the Congregational way justified. For the satisfaction of all that seek the truth in love, especially for his dearly beloved and longed for, the inhabitants in and neer to Manchester in Lancashire. / Made and published by Richard Hollinworth. Mancuniens.	Hollingworth, Richard, 1607-1656.	1647 (1647)	Wing H2496; Thomason E391_1; ESTC R201545	213,867	259

such as God judgeth or are loft to the immediate judgement of God You reply p. 76. There might be dogs in the Apostolique churches as well as without Phil. 3.2 and with such dogs Paul had to do A strange speech to proceed from you who elsewhere maintain that the Apostolick Churches did consist of visible Saints and that Paul in the judgement of charity did thinke all the Philippians to be Saints Phil. 1.7 and if I grant that there might be dogges as well within the Churches as without what gaine you by it you further reply that Paul had to doe with the dogges of the Gentiles he received a Key of knowledge to open the Kingdome of Heaven to beleevers and to bind them that would not repent and beleeve under the guilt of impenitency but Paul had nothing to do to judge with the judgement mentioned in this place viz. by the Ministery of the Church of Corinth those that were without the combination of that Church the Apostles had received no such Power to judge those persons to excommunication by the Ministry of a Church that were never in fellowship with the Church Rejoynd 1. Master Cotton tels us that the key of knowledge saving knowledge or which is all one the key of faith is common to all beleevers and he distinguisheth it from the key of Power Cot. keyes p. 6.7 but it may be this is not the key of knowledge you mean but you have made another 2. Paul opening the Kingdome of Heaven to the Gentiles in case they would beleeve and repent and binding them under the guilt of impenitency and obstinacy if they would not repent though you prove not that her did so bind any Gentiles was done by Doctrine not by Discipline by preaching not by censures of which this 1 Cor. 5. evidently speaks Had Paul any thing to doe to judge or censure the Heathens to be excommunicated which were never within the universall or particular Church 3 Paul had not to doe indeed to excommunicate out of the Church them that were never in the Church for that is impossible how can hee bee excommunicated that is not within the universall visible Church for excommunication is a casting out of the Church not out of the invisible Church for that cannot bee nor out of a particular visible Church onely but out of the universall visible Church as Baptisme doth admit into it so excommunication doth cast out of it and as they may be received to Baptisme and not admitted into a particular Church as Saul and the Eunuch so they may be excommunicated though they were not set Members of a particular Congregation but if they were never within the universall Church they cannot be cast out of it for that imployes a contradiction 4. The judgement mentioned in this place is not the judgement of Paul by the Ministery of the Church of Corinth as you assert for hee doth expressely distinguish them what have I to do Do not yee judge Paul saith not what have you to do to judge nor what have wee to doe to judge for so it may seeme that he included the judgement of Corinth with his owne but what have I to doe c. Now though the Church of Corinth could onely judge those that were within her limits as other Churches could also within theirs and therefore might judge the Incestuous Person suppose hee was one of them and lived amongst them yet the Apostle did deliver to Sathan Hymeneus and Philetus without the Ministery of any Church that wee read of and certainly the Apostle had Power to judge all Christians all of the universall visible Church whether within a particular Congregation or no for which I alledged the Authoritie of the Elders of New England in the marginal citation which you leave out Sect. 6. Reply p. 77. Such Persons though for their Crimes they may be subject to the judgement of the Civil Magistrate yet in respect of Ecclesiasticall judgement they are left to the immediate judgement of God else by whom shall beleevers not joyned to any particular Congregation be judged why shall this Congregational Classicall Provincial National Church judge them rather then that may they be judged by all or any one they stand no more related to one then to another which are members of none at all where shall the fault be charged if judgement be not passed if a Church may judge one out of the combination why not 1000.10000 Yet we are farre from judging those beneevers in England and Scotland which are not joyned in our way to a particular Congregation therefore to be altogether out of Church combination and not crpable of the Ecclesiasticall judgement of their Churches Rejoynd Every Christian is to be accountable to the Church or Churches where he doth reside and that Congregation or classis of Congregations is to receive him to such Ordinances as he is meet for and to censure him if he doe offend As in the time of the Law if a man was found slaine the next city must expiate the Murther if the Murtherer was not known Deut. 21.1 2 3. or punish him if knowne for first It is the duty of every Christian to joine to that particular Church of God where hee doth reside on neere unto him and those with whom hee doth reside are to admonish him so to doe but if he shall obstinately refuse they may order that the brethren of those Churches should not eate nor have familiar society with such an offender 2. Members of that Congregation or classis of Congregations within which an Heretick or Scandalous man doth reside are in most danger to be infected with Heresie or Scandall You will say hee hath not consented to be of that Congregation and therefore is not subject to her judgement I Answer 1. If it bee his sin he hath not joyned then one sinne cannot free another from being censured If a Malefactor at an Assize shall refuse to be tryed by God and the Bench or by God and the Countrey shall hee therefore bee left to the immediate judgements of God 2. It may be hee hath consented to it 1. In Parliament hee and we all are included which hath set bounds and limits 2. Hee possibly was borne and baptized in it and 3. It may be hee received the Sacrament in it frequents prayer and preaching there or at least 4. hee voluntary sits downe in that Parish or Vicinity the inhabitants whereof by Law or custome in generall consent of Ministers and Members doe belong to that Congregation and so may bee interpreted to have consented in his deeds though in words he deny it A Cambridge man that dwels within the City of London doth by deeds professe he is a Londoner though in words he may deny it no Christian dwelling in Corinth could escape the censure of the Church of Corinth by pretending to be of the Church or Cenchrea 2. If there should yet be a question what Congregation should judge such an

out of doors The withdrawing of people from an outlawed person is no part of the Judicature or of power but of obedience Briefly he that executes an authoritative command may be said to be authorized to that act as to execute a malefactor though himself be not a governour And so I have read your ridle and Oedipus may save his labour unlesse he come to observe but any ingenious Reader that minds the scope and drift of the Position and of your discourse may do it that while you have been catching at this or that shadow you have not given us one solid argument to prove what you should prove from 1 Cor. 5. viz. that the Brethren must concurre with the Presbyterie by way of authority or by way of power Or unlesse he will judge whether that which you put out of my answer as guilty of a grand misprision be guilty or no viz. Numb 5.2 The children of Israel are commanded to put out of the Camp every Leper yet the Elders did judicially make clean or unclean Lev. 13.3 Deut. 17.13 yea sometimes they alone did put the Leper as Vzziah 2 Chron. 26.20 from amongst them The allusion to the Leaven is not to be too far strained for every woman or child in their private house without the consent of the Church might cast out leaven but yet they cannot excommunicate The Apostle 1 Cor. 14.31 bids them all prophesie one by one yet our brethren do not hold that all sanctified persons which in any place call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Cor. 1.1 2. were by this precept bound to prophesie Also in 1 Thess 5.12 he beseecheth the Thessalonians to know them that are over them c. which he speaks to Believers and not to the Elders So when he speaks of the acts of governing power it is to be understood of Elders not of Believers Rejoynd I now adde that the Priest wanted not authority to pronounce judgement of excluding the Leper untill he had consent of the people The Priests alone did make him polluted or clean viz. did authoritatively declare him so The Priest alone might shut him up seven dayes Lev. 13.3 4 5 6. and yet all the children of Israel are commanded to put away the Leper from amongst them as well as the Church of Corinth is commanded to purge out the old leven and to put away every wicked person though this punishment was inflicted by many 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 by the Elders which were many and not by all the whole Church in your sense CHAP. XXXI Whether REV. 2.11 4.14 prove that Church-Members have power and authority Sect. 1. WHen you say the Lord Jesus reproving the Angel of Pergamus sends his Epistle not to the Angel but to the Church I adde not to the Church but to Churches And As you gather that the suffering of corrupt persons and practices was the sin of the Church and not of the Angel only so I may gather that it was not the sin of one Church only but the neighbouring churches 〈◊〉 But this you deny You reply p. 101. If you should unto this inference of the Elders adde an hundred more of your own yet this will not prove that the Inference is injurious to the Text for still it may be doubted whether theirs or yours any of them all of them or none of them be true inferences from the text It is harsh to say John wrote to all the seven churches ergo not to Pergamus if the suffering of Balaamites in the church of Pergamus was the sin of the neighbouring churches then it may be securely affirmed it was the sin of that church Rejoind 1. Revel 2.11 being brought to prove that the church may concurre by way of power with the Elders to cast out Balaamites according to your opinion because the Spirit speaketh not to the Angel to whom the Epistle is inscribed but to the whole church I demanded whether they held that Churches might joyn by way of power to cast out the Balaamites They denied that Then I said the Text doth as well prove the joyning together of Churches by way of power as the joyning of one Church with her Elders your selves shall be judges in this case between me and the alledgers of the Position speak conscionably I pray you may not I as well infer from Rev. 2.11 that the suffering of corrupt persons and practises is the sinne of Churches and that Churches may authoritatively or by way of power concurre for the casting out of Balaamites out of the Church of Pergamus as you or any other can infer it was the sin of one Church and that one Church only must concurre authoritatively or by way of power with the Angel have you warrant for the help of the Independent way to vary from the text and to turne Churches into Church the plural number into the singular number and have I no warrant to keep close to the words in opposition of it 2. I told you in my answer that Congregational men do deny that Churches should exercise such power as the scope of the Position would inferre from these words that our Church should exercise with her Elders I plainly shewed that they cannot inferre the one and deny the other as they do now you very strangely leave out those words But this you deny whereby my answer builded upon that deniall doth not appear to your Reader so pertinent and strong as it is indeed For you count it absurd and too like the Presbyterian way that Churches should concurre by was of power to cast out offenders out of any Church and thither therefore I brought the alleadgers of the Position and there I left them 3. Your selves do not vindicate the inference made in the scope of the Position but say it may be still doubted whether theirs or mine or any or all or none be true inferences 4. I neither affirmed that the suffering of the Balaamites was not the sinne of the Church of Pergamus nor that it was the sinne of neigboring Churches but I said and you cannot deny it to bee true that I may gather from the text aswell that it was the sinne of Churches as of one Church yea better then that it was the sinne of one Church only Sect 2. Reply p. 102. When you say Christ reproving the Angell sends the Epistle to the churches we suppose you mean the other sixe churches the seven Epistles were of immediate concernment in a distributive sense to seven severall churches it is undeniably manifest that the Church of Pergamus was guilty of suffering Balaamites and other wicked persons but to have so much faith to beleeve that all the rest of the sixe churches were guilty of suffering Balaamites and Nicholaitans yea even Ephesus and Philadelphia to prove that the seven Churches were governed by a joynt and common Presbytery hic labor hoc opus est But suppose such a common Presbytery and that the Presbyters