Selected quad for the lemma: judgement_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
judgement_n	authority_n	church_n	person_n	1,479	5	5.0691	4	false

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61877	An epistolary discourse concerning phlebotomy in opposition to G. Thomson pseudo-chymist, a pretended disciple of the Lord Verulam : wherein the nature of the blood, and the effects of blood-letting, are enquired into, and the practice thereof experimentally justified (according as it is used by judicious physicians) : [bracket] in the pest, and pestilential diseases, in the small pox, in the scurvey, in pleurisies, and in several other diseases / by Henry Stubbe ...	Stubbe, Henry, 1632-1676.; Stubbe, Henry, 1632-1676. Relation of the strange symptomes happening by the bite of an adder, and the cure thereof.	1671 (1671)	Wing S6044; ESTC R39110	221,522	319

to assay to heal by bringing one into a weak condition And p. 84. de febr Satis sit satis sit Medico saith the same Author quod aeger alioquin inexcusabili debilitate labascat per morbum medias inappetentias inquietudines dolores anxietates vigilias sudores c. neque idcirco fidus auxiliator debet debilitatem addere debilitatibus fraudulentum est sublevamen quod venae sectio affert ejusque tam incertum est remedium quod nemo medentum hactenus ausit polliceri sanationem inde futuram One would think it is enough and too much for the poor sick man to be brought low with the disease fasting want of appetite restlesness pains anguish watchings sweatings wherefore in such a case whosoever is a trusty supporter ought in no wise to add weakness to weakness all the succour the Lancet can afford is deceitful and all the address thereby is of such uncertainty that no Physician dare venture to make a promise of a perfect cure by this means and to keep one from a relapse I must except against the authority of Van Helmont in the case as of a person whose credit is sufficiently taken off by what I have alledged elsewhere I must not be concluded but by the judgment of understanding practitioners and in Physick I must not allow him to have been an intelligent person and it is notorious that he was a man of no practise and consequently no fitting judge of the efficacy and inefficacy of Medicaments It is a saying in the Civil Law plus valet umbra experti senis quam eloquentia juvenis And those Philosophers who would upon certain prejudicate opinions and pretences of reason determine of Medicinal cases are exploded even by Galen nothing is firm in Physick but what is confirmed by an happy experience and 't is an imbecillity of judgment saith the great Stagirite to desert experience and adhere to reason If Helmont was neither conversant in the Experiments of others nor did himself experiment the inconveniences of Phlebotomy what doth his Assertion or Negation signifie in the case Besides 't is but a single testimony against the Experiments of judicious men in all Ages and Countries As for his Reason 't is most infirm We must not adde imbecillity to imbecillity even this is notoriously false in Physick for by the same reason we should not reduce them to a slender diet no nor so much as sweat them for after much sweating every man feels himself weaker for the present the same may be said of vomits and Emeto-cathurties so much commended by my Adversary that during their operation they add to the imbecillity and sickness of the Patient upon this reason none might scarifie a Gangrene cut of the sphacelated part or make use of several vexatious operations in chirurgery Besides who would not allow us to create him a little trouble or weakness easie to be repaired thereby to recover him from a greater evil there are some times when the lesser of evils becomes eligible and puts on the qualification of being Good there are some times when we are directed to cure one distemper by introducing another But to proceed I do deny that Nature is debilitated by bleeding in diseases if the rules of our Art be observed for we daily see that after bleeding Nature doth with more ease and speed discharge her self of the disease a●d usually thereupon ensues signs of concoction in the urine a pronity to sweat and an inclination to solubility of body and a more strong pulse which as they are our daily observation so they do demonstrate that Nature is not weakned thereby Heretofore it was usual after consideration of all due circumstances to let the sick bleed even till he swooned away and that with very good success in those Fevers called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sub quo casu Hippocrates atque Galenus veniti non sunt donec animus deficeret semel detrahere sanguinem Quam ipsi rem ratione experientia ducti tentaverunt Profusa namque hac inanitione primum homo in contrarium agitur statum celerrime ex de fectu animi refrigeratus post autem alvus subinde prorumpit vel bilis ubertim evenitur vel certe copiosis sudoribus corpus perfunditur atque hinc alios protinus contingit convalescere alios plurimum juvari This they practiced in the beginning of such Fevers and the practice did so far ennoble Galen that 't was proverbially said of him that He stabbed Fevers He relates of himself that he took away at once from a Patient six pound of blood and presently put an end to the Fever the party not finding any diminution of his natural strength thereupon But this kind of excessive Phlebotomy hath been long discontinued by Physicians not that they could absolutely condemn it but out of cautiousness left the ill success afterwards should be imputed unto them yet some Countrey-surgeons do still continue it I knew one in Warwickshire who would in the beginning of any Fever bleed the Patient thirty or forty ounces or more in case he did not fanit and really with great success in rustick bodies A Captain in the Parliament-Army assured me that when the spotted fever was in the Camp their Chirurgeon did in the beginning of the distemper bleed them till they fainted then put them to bed giving them a good Cordial so they sweat and recovered presently He himself was served so the Chirurgeon bled him in the open field the bloud fell on the ground to the quantity as he guessed of a quart when a Lipothimy approached he put him to bed and giving him a Cordial he fell into a sweat and was recovered perfectly in very few dayes There is no doubt but the practice was justifiable in men of a convenient habit of body to bear it and where neither the climate which oftentimes is particularly repugnant to large Phlebotomy nor idiosyncrasie which sometimes happens or evil diet preceeding or the particular malignity of the venenate disease nor the prejudicate opinion of the people do contra-indicate It hath authority from Hippocrates Galen Avicenna and many others Nature doth seem to direct us thereunto by her own excessive evacuations in that kind by which diseases are frequently acted and no evacuation is to be accounted immoderate which is beneficial By this and expurgation even to Lipothymy in the first beginning of several diseases men were cured presently nor did the maladies proceed to those times which in the usual method they make their progress through In my Exercitations against Dr. Sydenham as yet unfinished I have entreated largely of the several methods of curing which I shall not now transcribe As for that way of bleeding which is now generally in use though practised with a great latitude in several Countries and by several Physicians in the same Countrey it is most manifest that if due circumstances be regarded and all other medicaments dexterously

high 'T is strange a Doctor of Divinity should write so and more that he should thus defend the passage I animadverted upon in a Manuscript not yet published but communicated to others the reply to what I say p. 42. and 29. how he makes the Vniversities Lands alienable is They most were designed for another kind of Worship than what is now in use And they may be changed in one as well as in another Particular for the better But I speak not against useful and modest disputations but against Barbarous and conceited Terms Reader The Subject of the Question betwixt him and me is Controversial Divinity not the Barbarous and conceited Terms therein Who can Dispute with such men as these It may not be impertinent to this subject for me to take notice of a passage of Mr J. E. concerning the Universities which though it be more favourable to Theology then this last Author would allow of yet did it not become Him to write it being very derogatory to the Vniversities That might redeem the World from the Insolency of so many Errours as we find by daily experience will not abide the Test and yet retain their Tyranny and that by the credit only of and addresses of those many Fencing-Schooles which have been built not to name them Colledges and endowed in all our Vniversities I speak not here of those reverend and renowned Societies which converse with Theology cultivate the Laws Municipal or forreign but I deplore with just indignation the supine neglect of the Other amongst such numbers as are set apart for empty and less fruitful Speculations These are his words in the Dedication of Nadius's Instructions concerning a Library out of which Dedication I find T. S. to have stollen his Dedication to the King only he multiplyed the Errours of his Original out of which 't is manifest that Mr. J. E. did not understand the Constitution of our Universities for we have no such Fencing-Schools not to name them Colledges built and endow'd to any such purpose as he speakes of nor any numbers set apart for less fruitful and empty speculations then the Virtuosi do pursue 'T is true there is a Professour of Natural Philosophy in Oxford and that the Scholars in the Course of their Studies are obliged to employ a part of their time in Logick Physicks and Metaphysicks And the reason is because that the interest of our Monarchy is an Interest of Religion and the support of the Religion established by Law is complicated with and depends upon those Studies T is no less then impossible for any man to understand or manage the controversies with the Papists and our Church is framed principally in opposition to them as appears by our Articles and Homolies and the Monarchy subsists only by that opposition without a deep knowledge of those Sciences As any ma must know who hath inspected no more than the Controversi of the Eucharist wherein the Doctrine of substance accidents of Quantity distinct from Matter of Ubication c. is so requisite to be understood that the protestants sustain the dispute without them For if we change our Notions in Natural Philosophy we then differ in the principals of discourse and where men differ therein 't is impossible for them to proceed In all discourse there must be some common suppositions and definitions admitted of and every man that is convinced is convinced by somewhat which he already holds By the change agitated and now pursued we make our selves incapable of convincing a papist and considering the prejudices of long Education and the Authority of the Catholick Church we must render our selves in their judgment as Perfect Fooles and not be able to proceed is in this case all one as to be baffled Besides I cannot comprehend and I do inculcate it to our Church and States-men That no new discovery in Natural Philosophy can countervaile that dammage which the publick will receive by this change of Phsioligical principles for besides what we shall suffer in the present management of disputes and those dangers which usually accompany all Changes which are such as no wise man would introduce them in a settled Government though he comply therewith when they are unavoydable we shall so disparage all the Reverend Fathers Writers of our Church and of precedent Ages that their Authority and Repute will cease and what they have written become universally contemptible when their Philosophical Notions shall be despised and each similitude or illustration seem ridiculous to every boy 'T is most certain that we know the inconveniencies of our present condition and know we can subsist and flourish under them but we do not know the inconveniences we shall run into nor any befiting remedy for them I did in a private Letter upbraid Ecebolius with K in omitting a passage of Dr. H. Moor's Letter wherein he declared that He payed not any of those weekly Contributions no nor so much as Admission-money as was usual I could not believe the Dr. so Disingenuous as to deny it or equivocate as he seemed to do in the Case but he himself told me what was omitted he was troubled at it and protested upon the Faith of a Christian that 't was done without his Knowledge and that He impowred Ecebolius to print the whole Letter Let the World now judge of the demeanor of Ecebolius imagine how He serves me who thus abused his best Friend He replies for himself that he omitted that Meaning because it seemed to be ridiculous But he might have known that I reckoned upon all those Catalogues of their Fellows as false where such were accounted on as neither hold Correspondence with the rest nor Pay the usual Contributions All the mistake of mine was that I supposed him to have payed Admission-money and so to have been heretofore of the R. S. Whereas He never payed so much as that and the Finess is more manifest that they pick up a company of men and desire they would augment the Speciousness of their Catalogues and ducquoy others and they will ask no more of them The excuse of Ecebolius is the more unpardonable because at our Enterview at Bathe I told him this very thing before Doctor F. C. I forgot to take notice of one passage in Ecebolius about Flavius Goia that He invented the Compass He acknowledgeth that it is a mistake but 't is an errour of the Press it should have been Flavius or Goia He is confident it was so in his Copy and that he was sensible of the mistake committed about it elsewhere But I am confident the mistake was not in the Printer but Author for in his Plus ultra He doth make Flavius Goia of Amalphis to be the discoverer of the Compass whereas all the best Writers say the inventor was either Flavius of Amalfi or Iohannes Goia or Gira of Melfi FINIS G. T. Vindis of the Lord Bacon p. 35. Lacuna in vita Galeni Is.

but hath seen some cases in which sole Phlebotomy hath effected the cure he may see many Instances of this in Botallus and that in diseases where the body was undoubtedly cacochymical I have seen Agues tertian and anomalous perfectly cured with once bleeding in women with child and in children I have seen some Atrophies so cured that the principal cause of their recovery was to be attributed to their Bleeding the like I have observed in several Chronical diseases even in inveterate quartanes as also others have done nor is there any thing more common almost in our Cases than the relation of several diseases absolutely cured by single Phlebotomy which I shall not transcribe here but in my large discourse of Phlebotomy in Latine I intend to represent all such cases at large with their circumstances and the History of Phlebotomy with all that variety of success which judicious Practitioners relate of it in several diseases and persons I add now that No man can be an accomplished practitioner who is not versed in the History of Diseases and particular cures for the general rules and directions make no more a Physician than such a knowledge in Law would do a Lawyer the res judicatae import more with us than they do in Law-cases and as Reports of the Iudges in special cases must be known by a compleat Lawyer so must our Book-cases be our presidents and regulate our practise Duobus enim tanquam cruribus innititur Medicina neque solis theoreticis rationibus contenta insuper etiam practicaes experientias particularium requirit indefessam ad singulos casus intentionem Thus is his Minor false as was his other Proposition and it should have run thus But Phlebotomy lets out the bad blood without removing the efficient cause thereof or conducing thereunto But he proceeds to defend the Minor thus If the Cause of bad blood were removed then would the effect cease but oftentimes we see that notwithstanding such a depletion the disease continues and if it be not mortal yet it becomes more truculent Here he commits the same errour that before expecting a greater effect from Phlebotomy than we propose generally to our selves in it we do it sometimes for revulsion of the matter flowing to any part as in some Pleurisies Squinancies the Colick Bilious and Rheumatismes c. wherein we never rely solely upon bleeding and though oftentimes the effect transcend our expectation yet do we not presume upon it Sometimes we let blood for prevention of future diseases as in great contusions and wounds Sometimes we let blood only to prepare way for future Pharmacy Ita plerumque in febribus mittitur sanguis qui non superat naturalem mensuram neque simpliciter neque in hoc homine sed quia nisi mittatur ob febrilem calorem qui adest succorum putrescentium mistionem corrumperetur ac fortasse malignè cutis rarefactioni ventilationi vasorum relaxationi ad futuram expurgationem necessariae impedimento esset Itaque mittitur non quia multa subest copia sed quia ea quae subest tunc est inutilis noxia ac proinde facultate ferente deponenda etsi causa morbi non inclinet ad ideam sanguinis modo non ab ea plurimum evariet i. e. Thus in feavers we usually let blood not that the blood abounds above its due proportion either in general or in reference to this or that individual but because the blood which flows in the veins is infected with a feavourish heat and would be corrupted thereupon and by reason of the intermixed humours now inclined to putrefaction and that perhaps joyned with malignity for the prevention thereof and least that plenitude and depravation of the Blood should hinder that transpiration in the habit of the body ventilation of the blood and laxity in the vessels which is requisite for the subsequent purge do we use Phlebotomy not imagining that there is any superfluous abundance of blood but that there is then in the body some that may well be spared and which if the Patient hath strength to bear it may with prudence be let out to prevent so great dangers as are imminent and to secure unto us the good effect of the subsequent Physick And if the disease do sometimes encrease upon Phlebotomy it behoveth wise persons to distinguish whether those symptomes happen by reason of bleeding or only succeed it in course the disease being in its increment for this makes a great difference in the case as also whether amidst those symptomes which are in due course most violent in the progress and state of the disease whereas we bleed usually in the beginning only there be not some that yield signs of concoction and melioration which if they do as we may justly attribute those hopeful consequences in part to Phlebotomy so we need not be amazed at the present truculency of the disease which affrights none but the ignorant If notwithstanding all our care and due administration of Medicaments according to Art the Patient do dye yet is neither Phlebotomy nor the other Physick to be blamed but we ought rather to reflect upon Physick that 't is a conjectural skill in the most knowing men and that we are not as Gods to inspect into the bowels and secret causes of diseases that besides the special judgment of God upon particular persons all diseases are not curable in all individuals either by reason of the variety of distempers complicated which interfere with and contra-indicate one to the other or for some unknown idiosyncrasy or other intervening cause which defeats our Methods as well as it disappoints the Arcanum of Pepper-drops I must here take an occasion to remind this Helmontian that he doth ill to disparage Phlebotomy by reason that after it there may follow some truculent Symptomes and yet to reject that imputation where his Dietetical rules are in dispute When he gives his vinous and spirituous liquors in Feavers a practise not peculiar to the Helmontians but allowed with regard to due circumstances by Hippocrates not only in diaries but acute-feavers so Galen would have told this Ignoramus if any seemingly frightful Symptomes appear as extraordinary heat an inquietude a little raving a swerving from right reason the Patient must not be startled in a vulgar manner but be satisfied that these are but the effects or fruits of an Hormetick motion in the Spirits excited and increased by good liquors easily united with them for the routing and putting to flight every way whatsoever doth disturb its vital government Though Hippocrates say it is good in all diseases that the Patient retain his senses though he reckon inquietude and restlessness in the sick amongst evil signs yet our Helmontian dissents from him whatever time of the disease it be and whatsoever other circumstances attend thereon For oftentimes madness deviation from the right understanding a Lethargical or sleepy disposition suddenly break forth Nihil

together by the Ears or to this effect had not the Quaker parted us That afterwards the Quaker and I came to Bristol and there quarrelled and abused each other This he Comically related to his Friend But this Relation differs much from that of my Dear welcome at Chue I told him the Person that accompanied me was no Quaker though his Father was one That I was willing to embrace his Overture of guiding me to Chue being as great a Stranger to the Way as unto him That I was not ashamed to be in his Company who was so well known to the Lord Brouncker and the Bishop of Ch. In summ I said I was confident that He was of the R. S. and in their Catalogue He denied that and upon the wager of a Guinny the History was consulted But it appeared not that He was there though I was sure He had been at the R. S. and I Payed it This hath given Ecebolius so much matter of Triumph whereas it was not a tryal of any Citation in the Book against Him I convinced him before Doctor F. C. that we had no Quarrel at Chue nor did I return to Bristol but left Mr. M. S. to return alone and departed streight to Bathe and Warwick He then replied that He was told so Iust so D. M. having Printed that no Civil woman would make use of me at Warwick Defended himself That he found now that All his Intelligence was not Gospel Doth any man imagine it possible that Civil Society can subsist if such Practices as these be tolerated Thus Ecebolius tells us of an Oxford Doctor that should say to this purpose That Mr. Stubs is so great a that if he tell you that He was at such a Gentlemans Table where this or that Discourse happened you are not to believe as much as that he knows the Gentleman or ever saw him Whosoever that Doctor were and if ever there were so mistaken a Person It did not become Ecebolius to publish it who had seen me more than one Summer at Bathe attending on the Healths of as Honourable Patients as any that Doctor ever was I think in company with But not to insist on any more Lyes which I am averse from pursuing to save my self and Reader some trouble and the Clergy that disgrace lest it should be said of one of their number He was the most Impudent Lyer in the World I do hereby demand Ecebolius for my Uassal and Uictime By his own Promise he is obliged to render himself and if there be any Generosity in my Adversaries they will see that He performe it After he had asked his half-Brother if he were a Thief and brought his Certificate and the Attestation of Jo. a Court to prove the Truth of his Relation of the Conference with Mr. Crosse which yet I am so far from crediting that I will prove out of Ecebolius himself that they attest a Lye and that it was not exactly and sincerely such as it is reported he adds Thus I have proved my Relation for Mr. Stubb's Satisfaction And there is no other matter I have related concerning either of them but I shall make it good when-ever I am called upon to do it Yea if they please I am ready to lay the issue of all here If I cannot prove every matter of Fact that I have printed about them I shall humbly lay my Neck at their Feet And if on the other hand either of these Adversaries can prove one of those reproachful things they have alledged against me I 'll be their Uassal and their Uictime In his Letter now He writes I never said any thing of you that I will not justifie to a Tittle I writ unto him upon the coming forth of the Prefatory Answer and having shewed him more Lyes and Specimina of his Ignorance than he now takes notice of I told him to this purpose 'T was in vain to pester the world with Books of Rayling that I demanded him for my Uassal and would convince him Formally where and when he please either before indifferent Persons at Bathe or before the R. S. and my Lord Brouncker And that if He declined this I would proceed to Post him at London Oxford Cambridg Bathe and Bristol All the Answer I received is this in Print which is as pertinent to what I demanded as all He else writes is to what I object I do here publickly make the same overture I will openly in any convenient place and before Intelligent Judges prove him a Lyer and so Ignorant and Illiterate a Fellow that He is not fit to come into any Learned company or to open his Mouth amongst them I have already evinced his Ignorance And all the Impertinence I am guilty of is this that my Antitheses are Logically and Directly opposite to his I will give an Instance or two by which the Reader may judge Mr. Glanvill Plus ultra P. 7. The unfruitfulness of those Methods of Science which in so many Centuries never brought the World so much Practical Beneficial Knowledg as would help towards the Cure of a Cut-Finger is a palpable Argument that they were Fundamental Mistakes and the way was not right The Antithesis of H. S. I suppose that the instance against the Ancient Methods of Science since it is restrained to their Utility to cure a Cut-finger is particularly directed to Physick For against any other Method of Science the Objection were ridiculous And in opposition to this Assertion I do say I have proved and will do it to any man that The Ancient Methods of Science have brought Physick to a great perfection have explicated so the Causes of Diseases and their Cures and do so enable us to pass a further judgment upon new Plants and other Discoveries in the Materia Medica as well as new Diseases besides that they direct us upon their Principles how to Compound Medicaments according to all Intentions that neither were they heretofore nor can any understanding Person who acts on their Grounds be at a loss for the Cure of a Cut-Finger Mr. Glanvill's Epicrisis Do I speak of the Methods of Physick Chirurgery or any Practical Art If I had done so Master Stubbs had had reason But it was nothing thus I had not to do with any thing of that Nature but was discoursing of the Infertility of the way of Notion and Dispute concerning which I affirmed that it produced no Practical useful Knowledge And unless he can prove that they did it by the direct Help and conduct of the Notional Disputing Physiology he will not Sacrifice me to Publick Obloquy here nor say any thing in which I am concerned at all Who ever denied that Diseases were cured by these Physicians using Reason Experience and General Rules But when do you prove that the Doctrine of the First Matter and Forms do directly and of it self lead to any Discovery by which they were assisted in Cures This I told