in the Catholic Doctrin of the Church of England pag. 103. which is but an exposition of the 39. Articles Our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstands it Authority is given to the Church and to each person of sound judgment in it to judge in Controversies of faith and this is not the privat judgment of our Church but also of our Brethren of forreign Countries Ismael J confess not only these but many other Drs abet your discourse and the General Vogue of our Reformation is for Scripture as each one vnderstands it but alas you see well that wee can never settle any Religion or Church by such a Rule of faith Isaac You can never settle any but rhis That every man may without leâ— or hinderance believe what he please and why should not this be a good Religion if Scripture as each one vnderstands it be not our Rule of faith if we must be constrained to believe Scripture not as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by this or that Congregation whâ— difference betwixt vs and Papists They must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councilâ— have ever so much light from God be ever so wise and witty you muâ— depose your own judgment aâ— submit to that of the Pope Counciâ— and Popish Church to this pass â— are come also wee must believe tâ— kings supremacie Episcopacy Fâ—gurative presence tho perhaps we dâ— not judge by Scripture it be trâ— Doctrin wee are constrained by Penal laws and Acts of Parliament tâ— believe them as Papists by the Inquisition and why because thâ— Church of England vnderstands bâ— Scripture its true and if you replâ— you do not interpret Scripture sâ— you 'l not be heard you must submiâ— and believe against your judgment and what 's this but plain Popish Tyrany ouer mens consciences Did Luther and Calvin forsake the Pope and Councils for to submit their judgments to any other No but to follow Scripture as each one of them vnderstood it and tho Luther was a man raysed by God and replenisht with his spirit to repair the ruins of the Church yet Calvin did no more submit to him than Luther did to the Pope nor did Zuinglius submit to Calvin but followed his own sense of Scripture nor did Oecolampadius submit to Zuinglius but every one searched the Scripture believed and taught what they thought to be true and thus we became a Reformation of Popery if therefore we will continue a Reformation and walk by the spirit of our first blessed Reformers wee must not be constrained to believe any mans sense of Scripture we must believe whateuer we think to be true and have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each one vnderstands it Ismael And what then what do you inferr from this discourse Isaac This consequence that wheras no true Child of the Reformation be he of what Congregation you will can justly deny our Rule of faith to be Scripture as any Person of sound judgment interprets it it follows vnauoidably that the Doctrin of the Reformation is Whatever any Person of sound judgment interprets to be the true sense of Scripture and whatever Luther Calvin Beza or any other of sound judgment in the Reformation since its first ryse vntill this day taught to be the true sense of Scripture is to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation tho to others of this or that Congregation it may seem to be wicked and scandalous Doctrin And now let me answer to an objection you made against this Principle in our entrance to this discourse you objected that many Papish Drs and Casuists delivered scandalous and base Doctrins which the Papists will not admit to be the Doctrin of their Church tho deliverd by Papish Drs and thence you pretended that the particular sentiments of privat Drs of the Reformation are not to be called the Doctrin of our Church But be pleased to observe the difference betwixt Popery and our Reformation the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Council or their Church they will admit no other consequently no Doctrin is to be called Popery but what is judged by the Pope and his Church or Council to be the sense of Scripture and if any Dr or Universitie holds any sense contrary to theirs it is to be called the Doctrin of that particular person and not the Doctrin of the Popish Church because their Rule of faith is not Scripture as interpreted by any Person of sound judgment but as interpreted by their Pope and Council But wheras our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment interprets it whatever Doctrin or sense is said by any man to be of Scripture is justly to be called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Melancton a man of sound judgment great learning and of an vpright conscience taught Bigamy to be the Doctrin of scripture Beza taught the Lords supper might be administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine Calvin taught that Christ despaired on the Cross and suffered the pains of hell after his death why then let all the Bishops and Universities of England condemn this Doctrin let all the Synods of France and Germany decry it the Doctrin will be still of the Reformation because its Scripture as interpreted by men of sound judgment Ismael The heate of your discourse has tyred you and my memorie iâ— sufficiently loaden with what yoâ— have said let me digest it in my privat retirement and wee will meeâ— again Isaac Content carrie with yoâ— these three points which I have proved convincingly first our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by this or that but by anâ— man of sound judgment secondly iâ— follows hence that the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation must be and ought to be called whatever any man of sound judgment saies is the sense of scripture thirdly it follows wee may change Religions as often as wee please III. DIALOGUE ISMAEL I remember well the summary of your last discourse given me in three points and I find the second to be absurd and repugnant to reason you 'l neuer perswade it tho you have pleaded for it with great energy what if a silly Woman Cobler or other tradesman reade Scripture and giue their sense of it that forsooth must be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and it shall be lawfull for them to believe it against the Doctrin of the whole Church Isaac Do not limit Gods infinit goodness by measuring his mercies towards his Creatures with your narrow apprehensions take notice he saies he has chosen the weake and contemptible of the world for to confound the strong ones I confess vnto you Father that you have hid thesâ— things from the wise and prudent and hast revealed them to the little ones And therefore he choosed poore simple
out of heauens gates and suffer Inquisitions persecutions excommunications and what not so among vs you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Church of England or you are condemned by them you must believe Scripture as interpreted by the Presbyterians or you are accursed by them you must believe as Anabaptists do or you are damn'd by them and not one Congregation among vs but would root all the others out of the world if it could and wee do not feare that danger wherof S. Paul Gal. 5.15 warns vs If wee bite and devour one an other let 's take heed wee be not consumed one of an other giving vs likewise a holsom advice in the same place how to prevent this euil Stand fast in the libertie wherewith Christ has made vs free and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage The world did groan vnder this heauy yoke in Popery wherin our Rule of faith was Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Church Scripture was kept from the hand of the flock no man permitted to give or believe any interpretation or sense of it but what the Pope Church and Fathers did approve our reason our judgments our consciences were slaves vnder this yoke vntill that God raised our glorious and blessed Reformers Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others who tooke a holy Libertie and gave vâ— all libertie for to reade and interpreâ— Scripture to believe no Doctrin buâ— what wee judged to be true by Scripture to believe any sense of it which wee judged to be true tho contrary to all thâ— world they tooke for their Rule of faitâ— Scripture and nothing else but Scripturâ— as each one of them vnderstood it thiâ— same Rule of faith they left to vs and â— holy freedom and libertie of our judgments and consciences that any man oâ— sound judgment may hold and believâ— whatever sense of it he thinks to bâ— true This therefore is the scope and end oâ— my following Treatise that wheras ouâ— Rule of faith as J will prove by thâ— vnanimous coÌ„sent of our whole Reformed Church is Scripture or Gods Wriâ—ten Word as interpreted by each persoâ— of sound judgment that wheras bâ— the Principles of our Reformation nâ— man is to be constrained to believe anâ— Doctrin against his judgment and conscience otherwise why were not we left in Popery it is impious tyranâ—cal and quite against the spirit of the Reformation to force vs by Acts of Parliaments Decrees of Synods invectives and persecutions of indiscreet Brethren to embrace this or that Religion that every one ought to be permitted to believe what he please if you think Bigamy to be the Doctrin of Scripture if you think by Scripture there is one Nature and four Persons in God if you think Transubstantiation to be true if you judge by Gods Word ther 's neither Purgatory nor Hell finally whatever you think to be the true sense of scripture you are bound as a true Reformed Child to believe it that it is quite against the spirit of the Reformation to censure oppose or blame the Doctrin or Tenets of any Congregation or of any Doctor of the Reformed Church because that any Doctrin professed by any Christian Congregation whatever the Popish excepted or that ever was delivered by any man of good judgment of the Reformation since the beginning of it vntill this day is as truly and really the Doctrin of the Reformation as the Figurative Presence or kings supremacy is Consequently Protestants are deservedly to be checkt for persecutinâ— Quakers Quakers for murmuring againâ— Presbyterians these for their invectivâ— against Anabaptists and Socinians Aâ— are very good and you may lawfully according the Principles of our Reformâ—tion believe them or deny them This Evangelical libertie of believinâ— any thing which we judge to be the senâ— of scripture tho all the rest of the worlâ— should judge it to be a blasphemie the most distinctive sign of the Refoâ—mation from Popery for Papists are thâ— Children of Agar the slave they livâ— in bondage and constraint to believe at Doctrin which the Pope and Church prâ—poses to them and if a learned man â— vniversity should judge it to be contraâ— to Scripture he must submit his judgment to that of the Pope or be coâ—demn'd as an Heretic in our Reformâ—tion wee are the Children of Sara tâ— Free our Rule of faith is Scripture â— each Person of sound judgment in thâ— Church vnderstands it if wee do nâ— like the Doctrin of the Pope Church â— Council wee may gainsay them all anâ— hold our own sense of Scripture â— enjoy the Prerogative of Rational creâ—tures we are lead by our own reason which God has given vs for our conduct and are not like Beasts constrained to follow that of others Wee follow the Rule given vs by S. Paul Rom. 14. He who eates let him not despise him who does not eate and he who does not eate let him not despise him who does eate for God hath received him that 's to say he who believes let him not check him who does not believe as he does and he who does not believe let him not blame him who does believe but let each one believe or not believe as he thinks best in the Lord This holy libertie and freedom is the Spirit of God for where the Spirit of God is there is libertie 2. Cor. 3. saies the great Apostle The Lord inspire to our Parliament that now sitâ— vpon a perfect and new settlement of Gouvernment and Religion to follow the footsteps of our first renowned Reformers to enact that there may be no other Rule of faith but that which we received from our Reformers and which is laid down for vs in the 39 Articles of the Church of England that is Scripture as each one best vnderstands it without regarding the judgment sense or interpretation of any but the pure Word of God as we vnderstand it and to enact Penal Laws against any so bold and vncharitable as to censure or blame the Tenets of any Congregation be it Lutheranism Presbyterie Arianism Judaism or Paganism or any Doctrin whatever that any man of sound judgment thinks in his conscience to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture Three things make me hope that this Treatise will be wellcom to the well inclined and pious Reader of our Reformed Church first that there is not one author quoted in this booke but our own Doctors learned and godly Children of the Reformation and this J observe that my Reader may know ther 's not a Jot of any Doctrin heer but what is of the Reformation and also advertise our Writers and Schoole men how much they discredit our Reformed Church by makeing so much vse of Popish Drs and Bookes in their Writings as if wee had not great and learned men of our own if wee looke into our Bishops and Ministers libraries wee shall meet but books either of confessedly Papists or strongly suspected of Popery and you shall hardly
they please Lutherans Protestants Presbyterians c. have all for their Rule of faith Scripture which each of them interprets in a different sense Luther for the Real Protestants for the Figurative Presence Protestants for Episcopacy Presbyterians against it and so of others and tho each esteems his own sense to be the best yet none is so bold as to say the others may not be saved in their own sense of it or deny them to be true Children of the Reformation nay that Venerable Synod of Charenton as I quoted aboue has declared that the Lutherans tho opposit to them in their chief Tenets are their beloved Brethren and have nothing Idolatrous or superstitious in their manner of Divin worship the fundamental reason of all this is that our Rule of faith is but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it Ismael I grant all your discourse as to this particular for its certain Lutherans will not admit Scripture as interpreted by Protestants but as interpreted by themselves and so of each other Congregation Isaac If you admit our Rule is Scripture as each vnderstands it then you must grant that our Doctrin of the Reformation is whateuer Doctrin each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture and from this it appears plainly that my Principle wherat you bogl'd is true That whateuer Doctrin is professed by any of our Congregations Synods Parliaments Drs. or particular Dr. of our Reformation is to be truly reputed and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation which Principle being true my discourse of yesterday is vndeniable that you may change religions as often as you please and remain still a true Reformed Child Ismael But you haue said that not only the Doctrin of each Congregation and Synod is the Doctrin of the Reformation but also whateuer any one particular Doctor teachs and this seems to be very absurd Isaac It 's not so absurd as it is true I 'l prove by the Principles of our Reformed Church by the testimonies of our most Learned and Best Drs. and Reformers and by reason and experience that the Doctrin of any particular Doctor among vs has as much right to be called and esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation as Protestancy Presbytery or Lutheranism for what is Lutheranism but the judgment of Luther a particular Dr against the whole Church of Rome what is Calvinism but what Calvin a particular Dr judged to be the sense of Scripture against that same Church what is Quakery but honest Naylor's godly and pious sentiments vpon Scripture It s vndeniably the Principle of our Reformed Church that our Rule of faith is Scripture as interpreted not only by Synods or Congregations but by any Person of sound judgment in the Church No Congregation or Synod is to vs a Rule of faith because all are fallible but Gods Written Word as each one vnderstands it and if wee do not like the sense of it delivered by any Council Synod or Congregation wee may safely deny it therefore our great Calvin saies and proues with great energy of Scripture and reason that we are not obliged to the Decisions and Doctrin of any Council Synod or Congregation if after hauing examined Scripture we do not find their interpretation and sense of it is conformable to the Word of God Let Synods and Congregations say what they will if any particular Doctor thinks his own privat sense of it to be better he may stick to it against them all and be a good true Child of the Reformation as Arminius in Holland did withstand the Synods of Dordreet and Delpht as Luther and Calvin did against Rome I will be free saies our vnparalleld Proto-Apostle Luther I wil◠not submit my self to the authority of Councils Church Drs Vniuersities or Fathers but will teach and preach whateuer I think to be true Did ever any Apostle speake with more courage and the blessed man acted with no less he knew full well the whole Stream of antiquity Drs Fathers and Councils were against him as he confesses himself and dit not care a rus◠for them all Lay aside saies he ◠arms of Orthodox antiquity of School◠of Diuinity authority of Fathers Councils Popes and consent of ages we receiue nothing but Scripture but s◠that we must haue the authority of interpreting it Nor was it only Luther and Calvin spoke thus but all our first blessed Reformers and why because our Rule of faith is Scripture not a interpreted by the Church of England France will not admit it nor as interpreted by the Quakers the Anabaptists and Independents will not heare it nor as interpreted by Luther Calvin rejects it nor as interpreted by Calvin Thorndic and Bramhal will not yield to it nor will Stillingfleet stand to their interpretation nor others to that of Stillingfleet Finally our Rule of faith is Scripture not as interpreted by any but as each Congregation Synod particular Dr or man of sound judgment interprets it and consequently what ever Doctrin any man of sound judgment judges to be of Scripture is to be esteemed the Doctrin of the Reformation and you may safely believe it if you like it and remain still as truely a Reformed Child as the proudest Protestant of England Ismael Can you prove that our Rule of faith is Scripture as any particular Dr or person of sound judgment vnderstands it Isaac Behold how convincingly first wee have heard Luther quoted but now say We receive nothing but Scripture but so as that we must have the authority for t◠interpret it hear him again Th◠Governors and Pastors haver powe t◠teach but the sheep must give thei◠judgment whether they propose the voy◠of Christ or of strangers And again Christ has taken from the Bishops Councils and Pastors the right of judging of Doctrin and given it to all Christians i◠General and the Rule is Scripture ◠each one will think fit to interpret i◠And consequently to this wee hav◠heard him say aboue I will be fi◠and will not submit to Drs Councils ◠Pastors but will teach whatever think to be true Barlow The Apostles have given to each particular t◠Right and power of interpreting a◠judging by his inward spirit what i◠True its needless that either man ◠Angel Pope or Council should instru◠you the spirit working in the heart an◠Scripture are to each particular person mo◠assured interpreters Bilson Bishop o◠Wincester saies the same The peopl◠must be discerners and judges of wha◠is taught Our Religion has no othe◠Rule of faith saies our French Reformation by the mouth of Dumoulin Drelincourt and the holy Synod of Charenton but the Written Word of God as interpreted by vs. Lastly saies the Church of England in the 6th Art of their 39. We have no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment in the Church vnderstāds it and what is proved by it and again
liberty that wee should have libertie for to believe or deny supremacy figurative Presence Communion in one or both kinds and such other inferior Truths controverted among Christians and that each Congregation may in such Articles believe as it vnderstands by Scripture to be true may pass and it s practis'd in our Reformed Churchs But that wee should run so farr as to have libertie by our Rule of faith to believe or deny the Fundamental and chief Articles of Christianity as the Trinity Incarnation Divinity of Christ c. that libertie ought not to be giuen our Reformation very wisely and piously permits the Lutherans to believe one thing the Presbyterians an other the Protestants an other and so of the rest and all are true Reformed Children because each of them believes as they judge by Scripture to be true but the Reformation has neuer giuen not neuer will giue liberty to interpret Scripture against the fundamental articles of Christanity wee must be moderat and keep our rambling fancies within compass and if any should judge and interpret Scripture in favor of any scandalous and abominable Tenets against Christianity and good Manners he must be checkt and not commended this moderation the Church of England vses and will never permit the contrary Isaac J percevie a greate deale of Popish blood to run in your veins and that if you and your Church of England were in pâ—ower at the beginning of our Reformation wee should neuer have had a Luther Calvin Beza or such other noble and renowned Reformers by what J gather from your discourse J do not see the breth of an inchs difference betwixt the Church of Rome and you and your Church of England for the Church of Rome will not stick to grant that Gods Word alone is her Rule of faith but so that none must believe any sense of it but as she believes it nor interpret any text but receive her interpretation of it The Church of England has Scripture for her Rule of faith and gives vs libertie for to interpret vnderstand and believe som texts of it as each one thinks best and so permits Presbyterians to deny Episcopacy Lutherans to deny Figurative Presence c. and confesses they are all her Brethren of the Reformation but she will give no libertie at all for to interpret other Texts but all must vnderstand them as she does or all must be heretiks and damn'd men No that text My father and I are one must be interpreted to signifie the Unitie in Nature of the Father and son as the Church of England believes none must interpret it otherwise so that the difference betwixt the Popish Church and that of England is the first giues vs no liberty at all the second giues us som libertie the first robs vs of all the second but of the one half the Rule of faith in Popery is Scripture as interpreted by the Pope and Councils the Rule of faith in England as to som Articles is Scripture as interpreted by the Church of Enggland and as to other Articles Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and thus Protestants are but half Papists and half Reformed and both these ingredients will never make a good compound Let any vnbyass'd and impartial man judge if the Church of England proceeds justly in this for if our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it as she mentions in her 39. Articles and as the whole Reformation believes if wee are not to be constraind to believe any Church Council or mans sense of Scripture if wee do not judge by the Word of God its true by what authority Rule or reason can the Church of England give me libertie to vnderstand and believe som texts as J please and deny me libertie for to vnderstand and believe others as J judge by Scripture they ought to be vnderstood J pray observe well this discourse heer are Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius and our other first Reformers they interpret som texts against the Doctrin of Rome and others against the Doctrin of the Church of England they are praised for the first and esteemed Apostolical Reformers because without any regard of what the Church of Rome said they freely taught and believed what they judged by Scripture to be true why must not they be praised and esteemed true Reformers also for not regarding what the Church of England or any other saies but teach the impossibility of Gods Commandments the sufficiency of faith alone and all those other Tenets which you so much mislike since they judge by Scripture that to be the true Doctrin are they bound to submit their judgments to the Church of England more than to that of Rome Ismael But in those Tenets they do not only contradict the Church of England but all Christian Churchs and Congregations for all will say those are wicked and scandalous Doctrin Isaac And if they judge by Scripture that those Tenets are not such but sound and good Doctrin may not they believe them tho all the world and ten worlds did gainsay them is not Scripture our Rule of faith and are wee to regard what any Church or all Churchs say further than wee find by Scripture that they say well But being these Tenets which you call horrid blasphemies displease you I 'll change my discourse and because I see you are Popishly inclined J will shew you how by the Principles of our Reformation you can be as good a Papist as the Pope one principle excepted wherin you must dissent from the Church of Rome if you intend to remain a true Reformed Child Ismael You promise too much and more than J desire to know J don't desire to have any Communication with the Pope I know by the Writings of our Authors what kind of beast he is Isaac By your favor you may believe the Popes are worthy honest and godly men many Drs. of our Reformation and our Travellers to the Court of Rome give this testimonie of them you may also believe that Popes and Cardinals are knaves and Atheists who looke on Scripture as a Romance and deny the Incarnation of Christ for Calvin saies so and would never have said it if it had not been true but beware not to speake so in Rome or they 'l lodge you where honest Taylor the Quaker was nor in Spain or they 'l stop your mouth with an Inquisition faggot Ismael J care not what the Pope or Cardinals are but J would gladly know what religion and Congregation you are of for wheras you are my immediat instructor it behoues me to know what religion you have Isaac As to my Religion I doubt not but that my Readers will be devided in their judgments of me if a Papist reades me hee 'l sweare I am an Atheist but J hope he will not pretend to be infallible as his Pope if a Protestant hee l say I am a Papist and that my drift is to cast
that all and each Tenet which J rehearsed in all my former discourses are consormable to our Rule of faith for our Rule is Scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it our Doctrin therefore must be what any Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the Doctrin of Scripture This is an evident sequele out of that Principle and wheras there is not one Tenet of all those which J rehearsed whether they concern Doctrin or Manners but was judged by the Doctors which J cited for it to be the Doctrin of Scripture it follows vnauoiably that there is not one Tenet of them but is the Doctrin of the Reformation therefore you must be forced to either of these two either to say that our Rule of faith by which such Doctrins are warranted is naught wicked and scandalous and leads to a prostitution of consciences and Manners or that all those Tenets are good sound pious and no prostitution or corruption of our consciences for pick and choose out the Doctrin which you think to be the most wicked and scandalous of all those J rehearsed you cannot deny but that it was taught by the author J quoted for it and judged by him to be the Doctrin of Scripture and if no Doctor hitherto had believed it you or J or som other person of sound judgment may judge it to be the Doctrin of Scripture either of both then you must be constrained to grant or that the Doctrin of the Reformation is not what each Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be the Doctrin and sense of Scripture which is as much as to say that our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as wee vnderstand it but that wee must believe against our own judgment and conscience what others say is the Doctrin and sence of Scripture or you must grant that all and each of those Tenets J rehearsed is the Doctrin of the Reformation tho you or this or that man may judge them to be blasphemies and scandals Ismael J confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each Person vnderstands it for all our Reformed Churchs with the Church of England inher 39. Articles do giue vs this Rule of faith I confess consequently out of this Principle that wee must not believe what Doctrin or sense of Scripture others judge to be true and orthodox if wee do not ourselues judge it to be such for wee must not be forced to believe against our judgments lastly I confess wee may safely believe whatsoeuer Doctrin wee seriously judge to be Doctrin of Scripture but prouided that such a Tenet or Doctrin be not plainly against Scripture and be not plain and downright impiety and blasphemie Isaac And in case you or the Church of England Rome France or Germany judges a Doctrin to be blasphemous and against Scripture and Luther or Calvin or J or an other judges it is good Doctrin and conformable to Scripture to which judgment must J stand must J believe yours against my Conscience and knowledge or must not J believe my own is it not the Principle and practice of our Reformation that J must believe what J judge in my conscience to be Scripture and not what others judge if they judge the contrarie when Luther began the Reformation did not almost all Christians and the whole Church believe Purgatorie and Prayers to saints to be the Doctrin of Scripture and did not he very commendably deny it against them all because he judged by Scripture it was not will a Presbyterian believe Episcopacy because the Church of England saies its the Doctrin of Scripture no but deny it because himsef judges it is not Ismael It s true each one may lawfully believe what himself judges to be the Doctrin of Scripture prouided he be a godly wel intentioned man humble and meeke in Spirit provided secondly that what he vnderstands to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture be not absurd and impious in the judgment of all the rest of the faithfull for let a man be euer se learned and godly if he gives an interpretation of Scripture which is denied by all the Church he must not be followed Isaac Your first Prouiso is very good and J hope you will meet no Doctor of all those J quoted for those Tenets which you call blasphemies who was not a learned godly humble and well intentioned man who will be so bold as to deny it of Luther Calvin Beza Zuinglius c. Your second Proviso is not just and in it you ouerthrow the whole Reformation and our Rule of faith for this being as you granted Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vndestands it whateuer interpretation or sense any man of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture he may safely and piously believe it tho all the rest of the world should judge it to be impious and blasphemous otherwise our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as wee vnderstand it but as it is vnderstood by others and wheras no Tenet of all those J rehearsed but was judged to be the sense and Doctrin of Scripture by som of those eminent Drs. I quoted it follows they might have safely believed them and if you or J judge as they did wee may also believe as they did and be still of the Reformation Ismael It 's wicked and pernicious to say any particular Person may believe his own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture if it be judged by all others to be naught and therefore the Church of England prudently and wisely puts a stop and bridle to the extravagant and rambling imaginations of particular Persons they must conform themselves and believe but what the Church judges may be safely believed Isaac Pray Sr. since when is it cōmendable to constrain mens judgments to believe not what each one thinks best but what the Church thinks may be safely believed was this commendable in the beginning of our Reformation when our blessed Reformers began to teach their privat judgments against the Church then establisht if it was then the Church of Rome is to be commended for persecuting and excommunicating our first Reformers and if this was not nor is not commendable in the Church of Rome why is it commendable in the Church of England this is a peece of Popery wherof the Church of England is guiltie and for which all our Congregations are iealous of her be it knowen to you our other Congregations Lutherans Calvinists Anabaptists c. are as truly and godly Children of the Reformation as the Church of England and they will not submit to that Popish tyranny nor suffer any curb to their judgments but will have our Rule of faith to be but Scripture and each one to vnderstand and believe it as he thinks best in the Lord. Ismael J confess other Congregations will admit no such curb nor bridle to their judgments but follow Scripture as they vnderstand it but the Church of England has a
reverent regard for the sense and interpretation of it given by the Primitive ages Fathers and Councils and that wee prefer before the privat interpretations of particular Persons Isaac And just so saied the Popish Church to Luther and our first blessed Reformers and if that had been well dâ—n wee should have had neither Protestancy nor any other Reformation but you confess at least that the Rule of faith in all other Congregations is but Scripture as each Person vnderstands it and each person may consequently believe his own sense of it and deny the sense of any other if he does not like it then you must confess that in all other Congregations except the Church of England any Reformed Child may believe any sense and Doctrin which any Person of sound judgment judges to be Scripture if himself likes it tho all the rest of the world may think it naught and wheras you cannot deny but that all and each Dr. quoted by me for those Tenets which you call blasphemies were sound and able judgments you must confess that it is a necessarie sequele out of their Rule of faith that in all other Congregations they may piously and safely believe all those Tenets and be still true Children of the Reformation Ismael J confess if they speake coherently and stand to their Principles they may believe them safely but as J hate those blasphemous Tenets I abhorr and detest also that Principle and Rule of faith of other Congregations from which such Tenets are vnavoidable sequeles Isaac Good Ismael you forget what you have hitherto all along avowed and you are quite astray from the Doctrin of the Reformation you have often granted me that our Rule of faith is Scripture not as this or that Congregation Doctor or Church but as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and now you tell me you hate and detest that Rule because that out of it there follow strange and blasphemous Tenets you say the sense and interpretation of the primitive ages Church and Fathers must be prefered before the interpretation of any privat Person or Congregation and what think you of our whole Reformation and particularly of our 39. Articles of the Church of England which allow no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it what say you of Luther Calvin Beza and the rest of our first Reformers who preferred their own privat sense and interpretation of Scripture before that of the whole Church what say you to the Presbyterians who preferr their own sense and interpretation of the Bible before that of the Church of England what say you of all the Congregations of the Reformed Church each one of which holds its sense and Doctrin of Scripture different from all the rest I grant there ought to be a respect for the judgment and interpretation of the Text given by the Primitive Church and Fathers but if a Doctor or man of sound judgment replenisht with Gods Spirit reades Scripture with an humble heart and pure intention and judges by it that Bygamy is lawfull that there is no Mystery of three Persons in one Divin Nature that Christ despaired on the Cross c. tho these Doctrins be quite against the judgment of Fathers Church and Councils he may believe them and be still a true Reformed Child because he follows our Rule of faith and if he must deny these Articles because others decry them then he must go against his own judgement and conscience for to conform himself to them and his Rule of faith must not be scripture as each man of sound judgment vnderstands it but as the primitive Ages Church and Councils vnderstand it and this is Popery Ismael Prethy friend Jsaac let 's give ouer all that your discourse drives at by what J can perceive is either to beate me from the Reformation by shewing me the absurdity of its Rule of faith or oblige me to believe scandalous and blasphemous Tenets as necessary sequeles out of that Rule I am à Child of the Reformation and never will be otherwise Isaac The Lord who is the Searcher of hearts knows you misconster my intentions how can you say I inteÌ„d to beate you from the Reformation do not J insist and persuade you to stick fast to its Rule of faith and acknowledge no other but Scripture as you vnderstand it how can you say J oblige you to believe fals and scandalous Tenets to the contrary J advise you not to believe them if you judge by scripture they are fals and scandalous what my discourse drives at is that you should not censure blame or call any Doctrin blasphemous scandalous fals or heretical Popery excepted for tho you judge by Scripture it is not true an other will judge it to be the true sense and Doctrin of the Text and if he does he may with a safe conscience believe it and ought not to be blamed by you or any other for believing it if you do not like that Doctrin do not believe it but let the other believe as he judges by Scripture he may and let every tub stand on its own bottom Ismael Once more I besech you give ouer J will not discourse any more with you Isaac Nay Deare Ismael I see you are troubled and I will not leaue you in that perplexitie be pleased to listen to three points I will propose vnto you and you 'l not miss to find satisfaction in either of them Ismael Let 's heare them Isaac Will you believe Scripture as it is interpreted and in that sense which the Church Councils and Fathers propound vnto you Ismael J will not be obliged to that for I may judge by Scripture that sense and interpretation of it to be fals and erroneous and I will not be obliged to believe any thing against my judgment and conscience that is Popery Isaac That 's well in so much you follow the footsteps of Luther Calvin and our other fist Reformers who would not believe what the Church believed in their tyme nor regarded not what the Papists alleadged out of the Councils and Fathers against them because they held themselves obliged to believe Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as it was vndestood by others Will you then believe Scripture in that sense and interpretation which yourself judges to be true tho the Church Councils and all other Congregations judge it to be fals and erroneous and give the like libertie to all others Ismael That 's dangerous for it would follow that any man might believe without check or blame the greatest blasphemies imaginable if he judges them to be the sense of the Text. Isaac Why then since that the first does not please you for feare of constraining your judgment Papist-like and the second displeases you for the scope it gives for to believe any thing or nothing your best way will be to lay Scripture asyde wheras Christ has forgot or neglected to appoint vs som
meete in any of them the works of Lurher Calvin Beza or any of our own authors if you do not meet som Comedies or Romances if you reade our Modern Writers you shall find their bookes to be stuft with arguments stolen from Stapleton Peron Bellarmin and other Popish Drs. wheras they ought to take their Doctrin from Luther Calvin and our other first Reformers Apostles raised by Gods heavenly Spirit Oracles by whose mouths and pens he delivered the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the Ghospel heavenly Fontains from which wee ought to drink the Doctrin of the Reformation therefore J have made a particular study for the comfort of my Reader not to profane this Treatise with any quotation of any Popish Writer none but our own Drs. Secondly my Reader will be pleased with this Treatise because J do not oblige him to believe the contents of it if he mislikes any Doctrin couched in this booke let him not believe it if he likes it let him believe it what J pretend is to maintain his libertie for to believe or not believe what he please and that none can say black in his eye for believing whatever he judges to be the sense of Scripture let all others think of it what they will for our Rule of faith as J will prove being Scripture as each Person vnderstands it who can be so bold as to check you for teaching and believing what you vnderstand scripture to say som Doctrins there are in this booke delivered by Luther Calvin Zuinglius Beza and others which our Church of England and som others do call blasphemies and scandalous Tenets and their irreverence and arrogance is run so farr as to condemn those blessed men for teaching such Tenets and say that they swerved from the truth and had their fraileties in so much that many of vs are ashamed to own those great men to have been our Reformers and leaders this is an impiety altogither insupportable it cannot be suffered with patience that such Apostolical men who were vndeniably our first Masters of the Reformation should be so vilified and abused therefore J do prove that ther 's no Doctrin delivered by them but is to be esteemed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation and can be according the Principles of the Reformed Church believed and taught by any Reformed Child for what is our Rule of faith in the Reformation but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vndestands it consequently what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but what any Person of sound judgment vnderstands to be of Scripture whatever Doctrin therefore Luther Calvin or others judged to be of Scripture how can you deny it to be the Doctrin of the Reformation or blame them for teaching and believing it if you do not like it the most you can in justice do is not to believe it but you cannot justly say it s not the Doctrin of the Reformation because it 's Scripture as vnderstood by Persons of good judgment nor can you in justice blame them or any other for believing it if they like it for must not wee believe what wee judge in our conscience to be the Doctrin of Scripture Lastly my Reader will be pleased with the sincerity and plain dealing of this Treatise as much as wee are all offended by the dissimulation and double dealing of our Modern Writers whose aim and scope in the bookes they give out Seems to be nothing else but to say soâ—what whereby they may be thought tâ— be no Papists and nothing is less founâ— in their Writings than the pure and orthodox Doctrin of the Reformationâ— and what is to be bemoan'd that youâ— hardly see in the houses or hands of thâ— flock the works of Luther Calvin oâ— our other first Reformers they are hiâ— from vs to keep vs in ignorance of thâ— true Reformed Doctrin and wee see buâ— Bramhal Tillinson Taylor Stillingfleet Thorndik and such others whose Doctrin is neither Popery nor of the Reformation but a new compound of both they do so mangle the questions controverted with their scholastical subtilities and distinctions as if they werâ— ashamed to own openly our Tenets and did endeauor to get the opinion oâ— moderat sober men with the Papists by drawing as neer as their Interest caâ— permit them to their Doctrin Ask them if we be obliged to believe the Doctrin and sense of scripture delivered by a general Council our first Reformers resolved roundly that we are not nay Luther saies expresly we are bound to gainsay and work against the Decrees of any Council but our Modern Doctors answer with a pretty Distincction Ther 's a civil obligation quoth one but no obligation in conscience Ther 's an obligation in conscience saies an other provided you do not believe they are infallible you may believe they are infallible objectively or terminatively saies an other but not subjectively they are infallible in fundamental points saies an other but not in inferior Truths An other will come yet and say they are absoluty infallible in all Articles and thus by little and little the Papists gain ground against vs and the lustre of our Reformation is clouded by the cowardliness or insincerity or hiprocisy of our Modern teachers 1. Kings 18. How long halt ye between two opinions if the Lord be God follow him but if Baal then follow him Luther Calvin Beza and our other first Reformers were raised by God to teach vs the purity of the Ghospel let vs not be ashamed to follow their Doctrin to speake preach and believe as they did Therefore J do propose their Doctrin in this Treatise in its native coulours that if you like it you may believe it and if any be so bold as to Say you believe fals or scaâ—dalous Doctrin you must answer iâ— the Doctrin of the Reformation bâ—cause its Scripture as vnderstood bâ— Persons of judgment and the greate Oracles wee had and if you do noâ— like it you may deny it but bewaâ— never to blame or check any other foâ— believing it this is the Holy libertie oâ— the Ghospel and of our Primitive Râ—formation FIRST DIALOGUE ISMAEL I have read your Preface and Principles me thinks you drive to establish a new Religion for that vnlimited libertie which you assert for to belieue or not belieue whatever we please with a safe Conscience is not allowed by any of our Reformed CongregatioÌ„s and it were to be wisht you should rather stick to som one of the Congregations now establisht than to erect a new one for we have but too many already Isaac The Lord forbid I should think or speake otherwise then as becometh a true child of the Reformation If you will oblige me to belieue Scripture as interpreted by the Lutheran Church the like I say of any other Congregation and deny the Tenets of all others what difference betwixt me and a Papist in the electiâ— of my Religion for the Papist's Râ—ligion must be no other but Scriptâ— as
Scripture alone as their Rule of faith without any regard of the Pope Church Councils or Fathers The Church of Rome proud and impatient of any opposition condemned them as Hereticks for not submitting their judgments to her for takeing Scripture as they vnderstood it and not as the Church and Councils vnderstood it for their Rule of faith and if this be a crime wee are as guiltie as they wee are equally nocent or innocent wee are both Hereticks or none is wee are therefore concern'd in their honor and ought to defend the integrity of their procedure against the Common enemy which is the Popeâ— they were Reformers of the Church in their times as wee are in ours and wheras thy have the same Rulâ— of faith so they have the same Religion with the Reformation Ismael Then you will say Ariâ—nism is the Doctrin of the Reformâ—tion and wee may lawfully believe iâ— Isaac I say God's Unitie in Nature and Trinity in Persons is thâ— Doctrin of the Reformation becausâ— the Protestant Lutheran and Hâ—gonot Church judge by Scripture iâ— is true and if you judge also bâ— Scripture it s the true Doctrin yoâ— may believe it I say also if yoâ— judge by Scripture this Mystery is not true you may safely deny it according the Principles of the Reformation and be still as good a member of the Reformed Church as they who believe it for whoeuer believes what he judges by Scripture to be true is a true Reformed and that the denyal of the Trinitie is as much the Doctrin of the Reformation as the belief of it it appears not only because it was the Doctrin of the Arians who as I proved are truly of the Reformed Church but because it was taught by the greatest Ligths of our Church Calvin saies the text My Father is greater than I must be vnderstood of Christ not only as he is Man but also as he is God And that the Council of Nice did abuse the text My Father and I are one for to prove the Vnity of both in Nature wheras it only signifies their Vnity by conformity of Will Again he saies Epist 2. ad Polon in tract Theol. pag. 796. That prayer Holy Trinity one God have mercy of vs is barbarous and does not please me And ads The son has his own substance distinct from the Father His Disciple Danaeus saies it s a foolish insipid prayer and our great Apostle Luther who as Fox witnesseth was the Chariot and conductor of Israel and a man extraordinarily raised and replenisht with Gods spirit to teach the purity of the Ghospel caused that prayer to be blotted out of the Litanies That word Trinity saies he sounds coldly my soule hates that word Homousion and the Arian did well in not admitting it Lastly Ochinus that great Oracle of England impugns this Mysterie with a strong discourse Wee are not obliged to believe saies he more than the Saints of the Ancient Testament otherwise our condition would be worse than theirs but they were not obliged to believe this Mystery therefore we are not obliged Examin I pray the works of these eminent Drs. where I quote them consider if they be not not only men of sound judgment but men extraordinarily raised by God saies the Synod of Charenton the chariots and conductors of Israel saies Fox men to be reverenc'd after Christ saies our Dr Powel and Apostolical Oracles sent to teach vs the purity of the Ghospell and conclude it s an vndeniable Veritie that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras it's Scripture as interpreted by such men O! but England France and Scotland believes this Mysterie well and what then that proves that the Mysterie is also the Doctrin of the Reformation because whateuer any Man of sound judgment thinks to be Scripture is its Doctrin but is England or France alone the whole Reformation are not Luther Caluin Danaeus Ochinus as well of the Reformation and men of as sound judgment as they since therefore they vnderstand by Scripture ther 's no Trinitie it s the Doctrin of the Reformation also that ther 's none believe it or deny it which you like best and you 'l be still of the Reformed Church Ismael By the Principle you run vpon you may say any blasphemy is the Doctrin of the Reformation for ther 's hardly any so execrable but som Dr of ours has delivered and taught it Isaac The Principle I run vpon is this Scripture as each Person of sound judgment interprets it is our Rule of faith judge you if that be not a good Principle in our Reformed Church wheras this is the Rule of faith given vs by the 39. Articles and generally by all our Drs as I proved in my first Dialogue this being our Rule of faith and Reformed Doctrin its evident that whatever Doctrin is judged by any Person of sound judgment to be contained in Scripture is the Doctrin of our Reformation som Persons of sound judgement say the Real Presence is expressed by Scripture this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others say only Figurative Presence is taught in Scripture this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation som vnderstand by Scripture there is a Mysterie of the blessed Trinitie this therefore is the Doctrin of the Reformation others vnderstand ther 's no such Mysterie this also is the Doctrin of the Reformation so that whether you believe or deny this or any other Tenet controverted you 'l still hold the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael Calvin saies Christ prai'd vnaduisedly the Eve of his Passion that he vttered words wherof he was afterward sorry that in his passion he was so troubled of all sides that ouerwhelm'd with desperation he desisted from invoking God which was to renunce all hopes of salvation And saies he if you object us absurd and scandalous to affirm Christ despaired I answer this desperation proceeded from him as he was man not as he was God And this is not only the Doctrin of Calvin but of Brentius Marlotus Jacobus Minister quoted by Bilson and of Beza will you say this is the Doctrin of the Reformation or that wee can without scruple believe it Also Calvin saies That Châ—ist's corporal death was not sufficient for to redeem vs but that after hauing despaired on the Cross he suffered the death of his soule that 's to say that his soule after his corporal death suffered the pains of the damn'd in hell And saies he in the same place they are but ignorant doltish brutish men who will deny it Luther also teachs the same Doctrin As he suffered with exceeding pains the death of the Body so it seems he suffered afterward the death of his soule in hell Epinus a learned Lutheran saies Christ descended into hell for thee and suffered not only corporal death but the death and fire of hell Mr. Fulk and Parkins avow this is also the express Doctrin
of Illiricus Latimer and Lossius Also Lurher most impiously affirms that not only the human nature of Christ dyed for vs but also his Divin nature see Luther's words quoted at large by Zuinglius and Hospinian If you say such scandalous blasphemies may be safely believed you will render youâ— Christianitie suspected and if yoâ— say that they are the Doctrin of thâ— Reformation or that they may be believed according the Principles â— the Reformation you will make thâ— Reformation and its Principles tâ— be hated by any good Christian Isaac If I walk by the Rule oâ— faith of the Reformation I 'l prove my self a true Reformed Child and if I prove my self to be a Reformed Child my Christianity cannot be justly suspected What Tenet have you related of all those which you call blasphemies and scandals but has been judged by those Eminent Drs. of our Reformation to be express Scripture or conformable to Scripture and since our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and since the Doctrin of our Reformation is but whatever any such Person of sound judgment judges to be expressed in or proved by Scripture its evident that all those Tenets are vndeniably the Doctrin of the Reformation I say then and will say without any offence to my Christianity or blemish to our Reformed Church that those Tenets are the Doctrin of the Reformation and may be as safely believed by any Child of it as Figurative Presence supremacy or Two Sacraments and let not any Bigot pretend to freghten me from this Doctrin by calling it blasphemy and impiety No its Scripture as interpreted by our renowned Reformed Doctors therefore it s no blasphemy let any man convince me that our Rule of faith must not be Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and he will convince that this cannot be justly called the Doctrin of the Reformation but whylst that Principle and Rule of faith stands vnshaken nothing that is taught by any Person of sound judgment to be the Doctrin of Scripture but is to be called our Doctrin and may be safely believed You say that whoeuer has any loue for Christianity will hate the Reformation and its Principles if they give libertie for to believe such blasphemies but can any mother be more indulgent to her Child than the Reformation is to vs such as think those Tenets to be blasphemies the Reformation gives them leave not to believe them and if any judges by Scripture that they are not blasphemies but pure Doctrin as Luther Calvin and others did they have liberty for to believe them He who denyes them cannot in charity check them who believe them nor can they who believe them check those who deny them wheras each follow our Rule of faith and believe what they judge by Scripture to be true And if you or your Church of England cry out Blasphemy Blasphemy against all that you judge to be fals why do not you cry blasphemie against Presbyterians Lutherans and other Congregations from whom you dissent and what difference betwixt you and the Church of Rome the folly of this is to call Heresy and blasphemy all that is not her own Doctrin and all that your Church of England mystikes must be fanaticism blasphemy and impiety must our Rule of faith be Scripture as the Church of England vnderstands it and not otherwise Presbyterians and Lutherans will neuer allow it if therefore our Rule of faith be Scripture as each Person vnderstands it any Person of sound judgment in the Reformation may without scrupule believe what he vnderstands to be the Doctrine of Scripture IV. DIALOGUE ISMAEL You still insist vpon that Principle that our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it and from that Principle will follow many absurd consequences destructive of piety and Religion Isaac That Principle is not invented by me it s of our holy Reformation if J did discourse with a Papist J would prove the Principle to be true and Gods express Word but since J discourse with a Reformed Child J suppose and not spend my time in proving it this Principle then being an vnquestionable truth in our Reformation no Reformed Child must be so irreverent and bold as to say that any Doctrin which cleerly and vnauoidably follows out of it is blasphemous or impious for that would be to condemn our Principle by which we walk Ex vero non sequitur nisi verum from a true Principle nothing can follow but true Doctrin can you deny but this was the Rule of faith and Principle of our first blessed Reformers and of the Church of England mentioned in her 39. Articles if therefore they judged and if any other judges by that Rule and Principle that those Tenets which you call impious and blasphemous be true Doctrin they cannot be blamed for believing them Ismael I confess our first Reformers did speake so but J say such Errors and impious Doctrins cannot without irreverence be called the Doctrin of the Reformation and cannot without impiety be belieued because our Reformation at present condemns and detests those blasphemies for we must grant that our Reformation in its beginning was not in its full perfection of Doctrin God began it by Luther Caluin Zuinglius and others those great men ha their fraylties they did ouerlash in som things and what they said amiss Gods heavenly spirit inspired to the Church from time to time to correct it and has at length brought our Church to that purity of Doctrin and fullness of perfection which now it enjoyes Nothing is to be called now the Doctrin of the Reformation but what is now believed by our Congregations and none of them believes those execrable Tenets you related Isaac you wrong the Reformation very much in saying it had not its full perfection in the beginning it s rather to be thought that that polishing and refining of it in ensuing years with new perfections and correcting the first draught of it by our first Reformers has been a corruption of it with som mixture oâ— Popish errors and superstitions for all religious Congregations and Pretenders to piety are at the first beginning in the height of their perfection and in progress of years they decline and decay from their primitive Spirit into errors and corruption of manners Religious Congregations are not like Arts and Sciences wihich by tyme and experience receive new perfefections but like chimnies which grow dayly blacker by continual smoke and fire witness the Jewish Church and law in its beginning florishing and holy but corrupted in progress of time by Traditions of men and superstitions of Pharisees witness also the law of the Ghospell in those happy tymes of the Apostles holy and pure but corrupted after som years by errors of Popery Jf wee be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the primitive Church ought not we to be said by the
Apostles men raised extraordinaryly by God and replenisht with his Spirit to teach vs the Ghospell and if wee be to seek for the pure and Orthodox Doctrin of the Reformation ought not wee to be said rather by Luther Calvin Melancton Zuinglius Beza and our other first Reformers than by a few Ministers and Bishops of England who tho they be wise and pious men yet they are not of that stamp as the others And if our present Congregations presume to correct them and say they ouerlasht in their Doctrin will not the Papists say if they have been such scandalous Masters and fals teachers why did you receive their Reformation and as they erred so grosly in such prime articles of Christianity why do not you feare and suspect they have also erred in the rest secondly the Papists will say if as they reformed vs you reform them then you must expect and permit that others may reform you and forsake your Doctrin as you forsake theirs Ismael I wish you could make out that the Reformation was in its full perfection in its beginning had you read som Writers of ours perhaps you would judge otherwise Musculus a learned Lutheran writes thus Thus it is with vs at present that if any be desirous to see a great rabble of knaues turbulent Spirits deceitfull persons Coseners and debauch men let him go to a Ciâ—ty where the Ghospel is purely preached and he shall find them by multitudes for its more manifest than the day light that never were there more vnbridled and vnruly people among the turks and other infidels than the Professors of the Reformed Ghospel Luther himself saies as much The world grows dayly worse and men are now more covetous revengefull and lycentious than they were in Popery Mr. Stubs sayes no less After my travells round about all England I found the people in most parts proud malicious ambitious and careless of good works Mr Richard Geferie in his Sermon at St. Pauls Cross printed in 1604. I may freely speake what I have plainly seen that in Flanders â—ever was there more drunkness in Italy more wantonnesâ— in lury more hypocrisy in Turkie more impiety in Tartary more iniquity than is practis'd generally in England and particularly in London Certainly our Reformation at present deserues a better caracter never did the Alehouses and Taverns complain more heauily of want of trading which is a proof of our Sobriety the Churches which we see a building in London is a good testimony of piety and we are so farr from any smack of hypocrisy that you shall not see in all London the least appearance of Virtue so hiddenly its kept from mortal Eyes but what you may meet in our honests Quakers Isaac I confess our Congregations as now they are are very good both in Doctrin and manners but I say also that the Doctrin and manners of our Reformation at its first beginning was as pure as holy and as true as now it is or ever it will be Nay supposing and granted their manners and Doctrin were so corrupt as those Drs. mention I say that amidst all those vices their life was as holy innocent blamless and pure as yours is now and that you may be convinc't of this truth know that Calvin expressy teachs Wee belieue the sins of the faithfull he means of the Reformation are but venial sins not but that they deserve death but because there is no damnation for the Children of Grace in as much as their sins are not imputed to them And again he saies Wee can assure ourselves wee can no more be damn'd for any sins than Iesus-Christ himself Luther is of the same opinion As nothing but faith doth justifiy vs so nothing but incredulity is a sin Again No sin is so great that it can condemn a man such as are damn'd are damn'd only for their incredulitie Whitaker No sin can hurt a man who has faith The same is taught by Wotten Fulk Tindal and Beza It s therefore the Doctrin of Scripture as interpreted by these Persons of great and sound judgment that incests murthers intemperance or whateuer else you call a sin incredulitie excepted either is no sin at all or but venial sins which do no harm nor cannot damn the children of the Reformation if therefore our Brethren lived in the beginning of the Reformation as those authors relate they liued according Scripture as interpreted to them by men of sound judgment and this being our Rule of faith and manners they did not ill but very well in following it Ismael They were men of the Reformation its true who taught these errors and dissolution of life and good manners in so much they swerued from the spirit holyness and purity of the Reformation and must not be believed nor commended looke vpon the Reformation as now it is and you will not find any such scandalous Doctrin or corruption of manners Isaac They were not only men of the Reformation but the greatest Oracles of it which you will not match with any of our present congregations and it s not pardonable in any Reformed Child to say such Oracles extrordinarily raised by God to teach the purity of the Ghospel should have taught either Errors in Doctrin or dissolution of manners they taught what in their conscience they vnderstood by Scripture to be true if you will not be so irreverent as to say that they were knaves Who spoke and taught against their conscience and knoâ—ledge Therefore they taught the Doctrin of the Reformation purely and truly the consequence is euidentâ— for what is the Doctrin of the Reformation but what wise learned men of sound judgment think and vnderstand by Scripture to be true why is figuratiue Presence the Doctrin of the Reformation tho denied by Lutherans who are Reformed also but because wise learned men judge by Scripture as they vnderstand it it s the true Doctrin or can you give me any other Rule of faith by which wee may know what Doctrin is of the Reformation and what not but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it or what Rule can you give for to know what is good or euil to be don but Scripture as vnderstood bâ— such Persons if therefore Luther Calvin and the other Drs. J quoted judge by Scripture that Doctrin and manner of life to be true and good why may not wee say its the Doctrin of the Reformation if you or the Church of England or Scotland judge that Doctrin to be false and that manner of life to be a dissolution and corruption of manners why you are men of sound judgment you vnderstand Scripture so that will be the Doctrin also of the Reformation you may believe it but you must not deny that Luther and Calvins Doctrin also is of the Reformation because they were men of as sound a judgmen as you You transgress haynously against modestie in saying those sacred Organs of God
swerued from the spirit and holyness of the Reformation which hauing no other Rule of faith but Scripture as each Person of sound judgment vnderstands it it 's Spirit and holyness consist in framing our life and Doctrin to that Rule as our blessed Reformers and Reformation in its beginning did believing those Tenets which you call Errors and blasphemy and liuing that life which you call Dissolution and corruption of Manners because they judge by Scripture as they vnderstood it that Doctrin and manner of life was true innocent and good and if you like it as they did you may believe and liue as they did and be a good Child of the Reformation consider I pray all the works and Doctrin of Luther the like I say of our other first Reformers the three parts of his Doctrin is against Popery and They say all are Heresies and blasphemies the rest is contrary to the Church of England and she saies this is also Errors and blasphamie so you conspire with the Papists to destroy the credit of our first and best Reformer and betwixt you both you vnplume him of all his Feathers and leaue him not a bit of good Doctrin But I will stand to the Spirit and Principles of the Reformation and Congregations as now they are since that you do so much boast of its purity and great Perfections and I will prove that Doctrin and manner of life may be believed and followed lawfully standing to its Principles for if the Spirit of the Reformation be at present among vs wee must not be forced as in Popery to believe against our proper judgments what others believe by Scripture to be ttue and holy but what each one thinks in his own conscience to be such because even now at present our Rule of faith is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it and this is the same Rule which Luther and the Reformation in its beginning had this holy libertie is the best iewel the greatest perfection and most glorious prerogative the Reformation has if therefore now at present any man judges by scripture that he can marry ten wyves at a time that he can kill his owne son as Abraham intended that he may commit incest with his own Daughter as Lot did that there is no sin but incredulity as Luther believed nor any Mysterie of the Trinitie of Persons in one nature as Calvin believed with what justice can the Church of England say a man does not believe and live as becometh a Reformed Child or that his Doctrin and life is scandalous wheras he lives and believes as he vnderstands by Scripture he may or ought to do which is the Rule of faith of the Reformation even of the Church of England the Church of England saies the Lutheran Doctrin of the real Presence is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Presbyterian Doctrin against Episcopacy is not the Doctrin of Scripture that the Anabaptist Doctrin against infants Baptism is not of Scripture and yet you permit them all to live in peace you confess they are true Children of the Reformation tho dissenters from you why because they follow Scripture as they vnderstand it and this is our Rule of faith and why will not you say the belief and life of that other man is also of the Reformation tho absurd it may seem to you since he believes and lives as he judges by Scripture he may it follows therefore plainly that this is the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael I confess our Rule of faith in the Reformation is Scripture as each person of sound judgment vnderstands it but you cannot doubt but that its needfull to moderat and curb this libertie or it may run too farr for if every man be lycenc't to believe and teach every thing he fancies to be according Scripture as there is no Doctrin so execrable but som ignorant Reader may hit vpon a text which ill vnderstood may seem to favor it so there will be none but may be believed and called the Doctrin of the Reformation for example Beza teaches and saies its also the Doctrin of Calvin Saumaize and Geneve that the Lords supper may belawfully administer'd in any kind of victuals as well as in bread and wine in Eges flesh fish c. Where there is no bread and wine saies he wee may duly celebrat if insteed of them we vse what wee vsually eate and drink And again in the same place If there be no water at hand and that baptism ' cannot be with edification differed I would baptize in any other liquor Isaac and why should not it be lawfull to any Reformed to believe this wheras its Scripture as interpreted by a man of so sound a judgment but I do not in any wise like that opinion of yours and of the Church of England that its convenient to limit and curb mens judgments least they may run too farr this is the Policy of Rome They will not permit an arbitrary interpretation of Scripture alleadging forsooth for inconveniencie the multitude of absurd Doctrins which the word would swarm with if such a libertie were granted No No far be it from any true Reformed Child to mislike or blame that all people should interpret Scripture and believe what they judge by it to be true and if what the judge to be true should seem to you fals and scandalous do not you believe it but let them believe it and they will be of the Reformation because they follow our Rule of faith Ismael Luther Melancton Musculus Ochinus Beza and others teach the lawfullness of Bigamy or multiplicity of Wives and prove it with the example of Abraham Isaac and Jacob and Ochinus expounding the text of S. Paul It behoueth a Bishop to be a man of one Wife The prohibition saies he is not to be vnderstood so that a Bishop should have but one wife at a time for certainly he may have many but S. Paul's meaning is that he ought not to have too many wyves at a time that 's to say ten or twentie Isaac And will you deny this to be the Doctrin of the Reformation wheras its Scripture as interpreted by men of so eminent and sound a judgment Ismael The synod of Geneve and the Ecclesiastical Disciplin of France printed at Saumure has decreed that a wife whose husband is a long time absent may have him called by the public Cryer and if within a competent time he does not appear without any further enquiry the Minister may lycence her to marry an other or marry her himself Isaac J say all honest Women may practise this Doctrin without scruple or shame wheras its Scripture as interpreted by that thrice holy synod but let seamen beware how they undertake long voyages for feare their Wyves may take other husbands in their absence Ismael Luther teachs its lawfull to a wife if her husband does not please her to call her
taught expresly by Urbanus Regius Bucer Zuinglius Melancton Luther the Common Prayer book in king Edwards time printed 1549. and many others of our learned Drs and what can you call more properly the Doctrin of the Reformation than what such men teach to be the Doctrin of scripture And tho our Brethren Quakers Anabaptists Presbyterians and Protestants judge Prayers to Angels and Saints to be nothing else but Popery yet our Common Prayer booke has the same Collect or Prayer to Angels in S. Michael's day that the Popish Mass Book has and desires that the Angels may succour and defend vs on earth and prayers to and intercession of Saints is taught by Luther Bilneus and Latimer quoted by Fox and consequently its the Doctrin of the Reformation Ismael If all these Popish Articles may be safely believed by the Reformation and be the Doctrin of our Reformed Church as well as of Popery what difference then betwixt vs and Popery or why are we called a Reformation of Popery or why did wee separat from them Isaac J have told you already that our difference from Popery is not because wee must deny what they believe for wee believe as well as they the Unity and Trinity of God the Jncarnation of his son c. but in this that the Papists believe because the Pope and Church saies this is true revealed Doctrin but wee believe not because any Church Pope or Doctor saies so but because wee ourselves judge by scripture it is so for if a Papist did say I do not believe this is a revealed Truth because the Pope and Church saies it is but because I find by scripture it is he would be no Papist believe then whatever Doctrin you will either Popery Iudaism Protestancy Arianism or what else you please provided you judge by scripture it is true and that you believe it not because this or that Church Congregation or Drs believe it but because yourself judges it to be true you 'l be a true Child of the Reformation And this is the reason why wee are called a Reformation and why wee separated from them because they would haue vs take for our Rule of faith Scripture as interpreted by them and believe not what wee judge to be the Doctrin of Scripture but what they judge and this is also the Reason why Ptesbyterians are jealous with the Church of England why Anabaptists forsake Presbyterians why these are forsaken by Quakers because each one would haue the world judge as they do and persecute and trouble one another which is quite against the Spirit of the Reformation for wher as our Rule of faith is no Church Congregation or man but Scripture as each one vnderstands it it follows that by our Principles every one must be permitted to believe whatever he pleases and by so doing he will be a true Child of the Reformation Ismael The Church of England nor any of our Congregations will neuer believe any of those Popish Tenets Isaac The time may come that they may believe them all and be still as good Reformeds as now they are for if the Pope and his Church should to morrow deny and excommunicat those Tenets which now they so stedfastly believe and I hope they will som day then it would be a pious and virtuous action in all Reformed Children to believe them all as much as now they deny them and let vs pretend what other reason wee please but it s very certain that the strongest reason wee can haue to deny those Articles is because the Pope and his Church believes them and consequently if the Popish Church would but deny them wee might and ought to believe them you will think this a Paradox but listen to our Apostolical and Divin Luther If a general Council saies he did permit Priests to marry it would be a singular mark of piety and sign of Godlyness in that case to take Concubins rather than to marry in conformity to the Decree of the Council I would in that case command Priests not to marry vnder pain of damnation And again saies he if the Council should decree Communion in both kinds in contempt of the Council I would take one only kind or none See these words of Luther quoted by our learned Hospinian and Jewel and see it s not only my Doctrin but of great Luther that in case the Pope and Council deny all the Tenets they now believe wee may and it will be a pious godly action to believe them and make as many Acts of Parliament for them as now wee have against them But what 's the matter me thinks you become pale som thing troubles you speake what i st Ismael It 's the horror J conceive against your discourse my countenance cannot be in a calm when my mind is in such a storm and confusion pursue no more you said enough that J should curse the day J haue euer seen you or heard that which you call Holy Liberty which is but a prostitution of Consciences a profanation of all that is sacred and an open gap to all impiety in Doctrin and manners but J hope the Lord has giuen me that profound respect and attache to our holy Reformation that I shall not be beatten from it by all your engines able to inspire a contempt and hatred of it to any weake Brother for who would liue a moment in it if such impious Tenets such sandalous and blasphemous Doctrins were of it or were vnauoidable sequeles out of its principles No No the Principles of the Reformed Church are sound and Orthodox and no Doctrin can follow from them but what 's pure and true Isaac Let me tell you J have as tender a loue for the Reformation as you and J will maintain the holy Libertie J assert cannot justly be called a prostitution of Consciences for you dare not deny but this is an Orthodox and sound Principle that our Rule of faith is Scripture as â—ach Person of sound judgement vnderstands it that it is lawfull for each person of sound judgment to reade it to giue his judgement of the true sense of it and to believe and hold that sense of it which he thinks in his Conscience to be true is there any prostitution of Consciences in this Doctrin or is it not the Doctrin of our Reformation Ismael All this in true the prostitution of consciences leyes not there but in the scandalous and blasphemous Tenets which you pretend that follow out of that Rule of faith Isaac But you wrong the Reformation in calling such Tenets blasphemies and scandals for since our Rule of faith is Scripture as each Person of soud judgment vnderstands it if this Rule of faith be good and sound if it be religious and holy any Doctrin that is conformable to this Rule must be good sound religious and holy this being our Rule of faith and manners it s cleerer than day light