run to morowe nexte with the bloude of heretikes as God of his tendre mercie forbid suche hardenes of harte in those that professe them selues to be Christians yeat ought not therefore the cause to be iudged anie whit the better seing that we see the cursed secte of Anabaptistes and haue heard of the wicked Donatistes and knowe beside that the diuell hathe aswell his false witnesses readie to suffer gladlie moste bitter deathe for their conceaued opinions as Christe hathe his true martirs to doe the like for the true catholike faithe Thus muche be saide to M. Nowelles impertinent discourse of copes vestimentes gilted crosses candelstickes c. and to his other idle talcke of the persecution forsothe and martirdome sauing youre reuerences of his deare brethern Nowe at the length he commeth to that whiche he shoulde chiefely haue answered in this place that is of thetrieng of all controuersies by the only scripture To proue that of controuersies rising about the true vnderstandinge of the scripture the scripture it selfe should be the iudge he vseth a similitude wherin he compareth vs to the phariseis and him selfe and his companions to the Apostles And vpon that comparison reasoneth in effecte as foloweth As in the controuersie betwene the Apostles and the Phariseis Nowell fol. 69. a. 1 the question being whether Christe were the true Messias the Apostles affirming the Phariseis denieng if the matter had bene referred to the interpretation and determination of the high prieste and his consistorie we mighte yeat haue loked withe the Iues for Messias to come and as it was no reason that in the controuersie betwene the saide highe priestes and the Apostles whether they had put Christe iustlie or vniustlie to death they shoulde be them selues the iudges who were not onelie accessaries but the principall partes to the murther so must we nowe with the Apostles make the scripture the iudge of oure controuersies and the pope by all reason must be excluded as he that is the sinke of all the abhominations wherewith he that hath but halfe an eye maie see how shamefully the lawe of God is as it was by the Phariseis corrupted Youre similitude M. Nowell halteth and is not able Dorman therefore to go so far as it should For the better declaration whereof it is to be knowen that as sone as Iohn the Baptist Matth. 11. began to preache the Synagoge which had no promise to continue for euer began to languishe and so was at the length weakened that after Christes deathe it came to nothing Christe hauing then established a newe church and made his Apostles the doctours and iudges thereof and Peter the gouernour of all Now see I praye you how this similitude of youres holdeth The Apostles being the true church of Christe referred not their controuersies to the Phariseis which perteined not to the church yea were enemies and persecutours thereof but referred the same to the scriptures and iudged by the scriptures them selues ergo the church of Christe that is nowe maye not be the iudge of controuersies but we must refer the same to the scriptures I denie that consequent M. Nowell You proue it because the Apostles did not referre their controuersies to the high priestes and Phariseis I graunte you for their priestehode and auctoritie was expired When you shal be hable to proue vs Phariseis and your selues the true churche then maie you by this similitude reason that as the Apostles referred not the iudgement of the meaning of the scriptures to the Phariseis which were not the church nor of the church so you will not being the church refer the matter to vs but iudge of the scripture your selues as the Apostles The Apostles being the true churche of Christe iudged of the scriptures did In the meane season as the Apostles alleaged for thē selues the scripture and saied it made for thē wherein they gaue iudgement of the scripture so foloweth it that Christes church which is now the same that was then iudgeth in al controuersies which is the right and true sense Neither can it serue you to saie to the contrarie as you doe sclaunderouslie that the worde of God hauing bene moste shamefully by vs corrupted as he that hath but halfe an eye maie well see it is no reason being parties that we shoulde be iudges therein Seing that thus might the Phariseis haue saide euen of the Apostles them selues and laied to their charges partialitie because they were Christes scholers and disciples and so parties to the cause whiche they mainteined and also for that you haue not as yeat proued nor euer shal be hable to proue that Christes church hath euer erred in the faith or the heade thereof at anie time deliuered to the church any tradition or erroniouse opinion whereby the worde of God hath bene corrupted Which assertion of youres being moste directly against the scriptures bearing witnes so manifestly Math. 14. 16. Ioan. 14. alibi of the continuance of the churche incorrupted so often auouched by you and being the only fundation of this plea of youres that we be the Phariseis and you Christes true Apostles me thinketh you should haue done well once in so often affirming it to haue proued by one sentence of scripture or some approued auctor and not facingly to saye that he that hathe but halfe an eye maie see that it is so or elles till you coulde haue proued it it had bene more for your honestie to haue absteined from suche vnmercifull and vnchristianlike demeanure as you vse towardes bothe the church of Christe and the head thereof Where you saye that I will haue the scripture reiected there you reporte vntrulie of me This I saie that scripture not thorough anie imperfection or insufficiencie that is in it but onelie by occasiō of stubborne wrangling and contentiouse natures who neuer will giue ouer the opinion that they haue once conceiued euerie one being at apoint to receiue no other interpretation thereof thē to them shal seme good is not hable to ende and determine al cōtrouersies moued vpō the lettre thereof and that therfore euen as in the lawes of the realme whiche were to decide all controuersies sufficient so that the lawe being broughte euerie man woulde furthewithe yealde to it because they will not there be iudges by the prince appointed to cut of all altercations and to preserue the realme in quiet who when the councellours bothe of the one parte and the other haue contentiouslie disputed the matter eache of them affirming that the lawe is on his side shall by opening the meaning thereof ende the strife So is it not to be thought but that God forseing the innumerable sectes of heretikes that shoulde trouble his churche of whome there shoulde be no one no not of them that directlie blush not to teache Suencfeldius that there ought to be no scripture at all that woulde not colourablie defende the same by scripture it is not I saie to be
vnlearned you vse termes like youre selfe against this chaire of S. Petre minding as I take it to persuade that I shoulde drawe S. Hieromes wordes to suche a meaning as that he shoulde meane that Christes churche were builded vpon a materiall chaire You maye be ashamed M. Nowel where you lacke iust matter to blotte paper and waste incke with suche cauilling triffles as euerie man that hath common sense wil as sone as they haue passed once youre mouthe be hable to discouer and reproue Dothe not S. Hierome in this place make twise expresse mention of Petres chaire Why triumphe you not ouer him as you crowe against me with youre foolishe and vnsauory Rhetorike and saie that he was well occupied to write from Siria to Rome for councell from a rotten chaire that he was a wise man to ioyne him selfe in communion theretoe Who seeth not that yow woulde haue taken the matter as whotly with S. Hierome as you doe with me hauing as good cause alltogether sauing that yow feared the burning of youre lippes I saie therefore M. Nowell that VVhat S. Hierome ment by Peters chayre S. Hierome to answere you in this pointe if you were so verie a dolt that you vnderstode it not before by building the churche vpon Petres chaire meaneth euen as he did in those two places before where you can not denie but that he maketh expresse mention of that chaire Sainte Hierome meaneth there no materiall chaire and therefore no rotten chaire as you like a rotten membre and deuided from the churche blasphemously saie He meaneth as Matt◠23 Christe doeth in the ghospell speaking of Moises chaire as the fathers Cipriā Epiphanius Austen Ambrose Optatus and the rest doe as often as they vse this worde that is to saie by the chayre the power and bishoplike auctoritie which Petre hauing giuē to him cōmitted to his successours For euē as a riuer though it runne manie thousandes of miles leeseth not yeat but reteineth neuerthelesse the name of the founteine and heade spring from whence it came so fareth it in the succession of bishoppes that how many so euer there be that succede yeat they are all saide to possesse the chaire of him that ruled firste yea allthough euerie of them had made for him selfe a newe chaire For the matter consisteth not as I saide before in materiall chaires no more then doth the opening or shutting of heauen gates depende vpon materiall keyes And as well might you like a Lucianist or a Porphirian haue scoffed at Christe for saing that the scribes and Phariseis sate vpon Moises chaire which if they had had emōgest them if euer Moises sate in anie should at that time haue bene as rotten as is S. Petres nowe there being betwene Moises and S. Petre not manie fewer yeares then are nowe betwene S. Petre and oure time or for making keyes for heauen as yow doe against me But to let this passe and to exaggerate no furder that for the which at the handes of suche as be of the learneder and wiser sorte you are like to susteine punishment enough by incurring the note of this infamie to be no learned reasoner but a railing wrangler I will nowe as compendiously as maie be iustifie the inserting of this Parenthesis Peters chaire First these wordes vpon this rocke I knowe the churche to be builded ought to be referred rather as youre selfe before confessed and in this case if in anie you ought to be beleued for you haue bene a scholemaister and practised better in the gramer rules then in the scriptures and fathers writinges to the wordes that go nearest before but the wordes Peters chaire are placed nearest before Therefore by youre owne confession the building of the churche ought to be referred thither Againe S. Hierome in this place it is to be presumed alluded in these wordes I knowe the churche to be buylded on that rocke to the wordes of the ghospell Tues petrus super hanc petram aedificabo ecclesiam meam Thow Matt. 16. arte Petre and vpon this rocke wil I builde my church But in that place Christe appointed an other fundation of the church beside him selfe to wit Peter It foloweth therefore that S. Hierome in this place ment not of Christ but of Peters chaire that is Peters auctoritie or Peter him selfe Thirdly it is more then probable that sainte Hierome mēt not in this place of building the churche vpon Christe only but vpon Petre also nexte after Christe because to him that with iudgement wil reade the epistle considre duly the circunstances especially the beginning it shal appeare that his whole talcke is so framed that whereas of purpose and directly he maketh mention of consulting Peters chaire off ioyning him selfe to Peters chaire and in that whole discourse of his setteth furthe the praises of the churche off Rome he speaketh of Christe but incidently and as it were by the waie of a parenthesis and that toe to auaunce the dignitye of the See of Rome as before the which he woulde preferre he saide none but Christe The whiche being so what sounde iudgement will not rather refer these wordes aboute whiche the controuersie is to that whiche is principally and directly handled rather then to that which is mentioned but incidently and indirectly Last of all it is to be iudged that S. Hierome agreeth here with his owne writinges in other places Nowe is this euident that euen the thirde epistle before thys he saieth in plaine wordes that the churche was builded vppon Petre. His wordes are Apostolus Petrus super quem Dominus fundauit ecclesiam Tom. 2. epist ad Marcellā Petre the Apostle vpon whom our lorde founded his churche Thus you see good Readers I trust howe falselye and withoute all cause M. Nowell hathe quarelled with me for this parenthesis added only to make more plaine the wordes of Saint Hierome It foloweth that I showe to you howe he prosecuteth his purposed malice by the auctorities of Erasmus and S. Augustine in the 108. 109. and 110. leaues Erasmus saieth M. Nowell cleane contrarye to all papistes Nowell fol. 108. a. 18. saieth in his notes vpon these wordes Super illam petram c. Non super Romam vt arbitror c. That is to saie Vpon that rocke not vpon Rome I trowe c. From Erasmus thus farre we dissent not that we knowe Dorman as well as he that the church was not built vpō Rome For if Rome were sacked as God forbid to morowe nexte the church should continue neuerthelesse although the bishop went from thence and shoulde sit at the meanest towne in all Italye or elles where As for that that he woulde haue the churche to be builded by S. Hieromes meaning vppon Peters faithe that first he affirmeth not confidently but saieth he troweth so next it maye be saide that in this place Erasmus telleth his owne opinion in the other place off this epistle vpon these wordes Extra hanc domum without this
that euery one of them had he saide licence to vse the iudgement of his libertie and power Which worde pro licentia M. Nowel mangleth S. Cipriā yow guilefully lefte oute of youre translation showing youre selfe thereby to be no simple translatour but a crafty falsefier Now if they had licence in that councell of theirs euery man to saie frelye his minde if S. Cyprian saide that notwithstanding he was their archebishop and bishop off them all yeat for the present time he did renounce that auctoritie as in this sense his wordes are to be taken what maketh that against the auctoritie of the B. of Rome Dothe not the B. of Rome saye asmuch to all his fellow bishoppes in all general councelles Had not you the same offer made vnto you in the laste councell of Trent to haue bene quietly harde and no man by tirannie to haue bene compelled In saluo cōductu cōcilij Trident. to the necessitie of obeing If this answere satisfie you not let S. Augustine teache you the true vnderstanding of this place Who expounding August li. 3. ca. 3. cōtra Donat. these wordes of S. Cyprian Seing euery bishop hath according to the licence c. against the Donatistes writeth thus Opinor vtique in his quaestionibus quae nondum eliquatissima perspectione S. Cypriā expoūded by S. Austen discussae sunt Nouerat enim quantam sacramenti profunditatem tunc omnis ecclesia varia disputatione versabat liberum que faciebat quaerendi arbitrium vt examinata veritas panderetur I thinke verilie that is to saie that S. Cyprian meaneth in those questions which be not yeat by manifest examination discussed For he knewe what a depe misterie it was that was then tossed in the whole churche with ambiguouse disputations and made it free for euery one to searche and enquire that the truthe being examined might be reuealed Thus you see M. Nowell that youre falsehoode in leauing out in youre translation the worde pro licentia wil not helpe you S. Augustine by this worde liberum faciebat VVherein one bisshop cannot be iudged of another he gaue them licence expounding the meaning of S. Ciprian and telling vs beside that this place of bishoppes libertie whereby euerie one maye thinke what he will and can be iudged of no other is while thinges be not decided but remaine in doubte And therefore if you haue no other doctours or councelles to present to the pope but these yow did like a wise man to tarie at home That you saie that neither the texte of the scriptures nor the fol. 27. b. 7. interpretation of doctours nor iudgementes of councelles can haue any credite against the pope and bring Pighius to proue it that is a manifest lye For when Pighius saieth that for the A lye 22. moste parte there is nothing done in generall councelles but that the bishoppes comming together giue their consent to that which the Apostolike See decreed before he saieth not that it is so allwaies that it can be no otherwise As though the time of deliberation during the Apostolike See vpon the reasons of the councell might not be moued to decree that which otherwise it hath not determined he saieth not that against the pope neither the texte of the scriptures nor the interpretation of doctours nor iudgementes of councelles b. 24. can haue any credite And therefore moste impudently againe I tell yow yow haue belyed Pighius The councell is no councell if it lacke the auctoritie of the heade No generall councell without a head the B. of Rome And therefore you haue Pighius at no such aduantage because he saieth that the onely iudgement of the See of Rome is more sure then the iudgement of an vniuersall councell of the whole worlde which if it be true VVhy councelles be called then were it you saye for bishoppes to come to councelles a vaine thing Not so M. Nowell For although before God and with good men the iudgement arrested vpon by the see of Rome be certeinly true and can not deceiue yeat because men ignorant in the scriptures and lawes of the churche some of thē sometimes because heretikes for the repressing of whome councelles be most cōmonly called for the moste parte be not thus persuaded the pope vseth to communicate with the generall councell concerning decrees to be made The which being with generall consent approued and confirmed by the pope bothe the weake or vnlearned catholike maie be fully persuaded and the stubborne heretike with his owne weightes quite ouer weighed while bothe to the one and the other suche vniforme consent can not but argue the merueilouse grace and assistence off the holie gost An other cause maie be for that the pope by this meanes will be certified by the bishoppes off euery countrie what circumstances what maners of people in eache place maie require the decrees according to the nature of diuerse diseases to be losed slacker or streined harder For although he be so priuileaged that in making lawes for the churche he can not erre yeat hath he not the spirit of prophecie to knowe being absent all the offenses and imperfections in the churche Beside this where as otherwise it might euer be doubted whether the pope made any suche decrees or no in places farre distant from Rome hereby all suche occasion is taken awaie the bishoppes off euery countrie being present who be able to make faithe hereof to their subiectes Last of all this calling together of councelles is not in vaine while Christian princes being present and hearing all thinges debated promise the rather their assistance for the execution of suche thinges as shal be concluded And thus is this pelting obiection of youres answered Now to the next Pighius yow saye teacheth that to the see of Rome the ordering Nowell fo 28. a. 7. defining and determining of all questions and controuersies is giuen by Christe c. And the same dothe M. Dorman to teache in the 62. leafe b. out off pope Innocentius epistle That which I haue there affirmed I haue by the auctoritie Dorman not of Innocentius alone which yeat to anie reasonable Apud August epist. 90. 91. 92 93. man might seme inough considering that they were no babes to whome he wrote but euen by the auctoritie also of those fathers of the two councelles of Carthage and Mileuite especially of S. Austen expressely affirming that he answered them to all their questions euen as was right and for the bishop of the apostolicall See mete sufficiently proued Answere yow to it when yow shall be hable In the meane season it is true that I saide that the auctoritie of the B. of Rome is the fundation of all true religion the comfort and staye of the catholikes c. Against the whiche fewe wordes couched in lesse roome then fiue lynes yow haue not in fower leaues and more brought truly so muche as one worde but in the whole
thought that he woulde in this case make lesse prouision for his churche then a temporall king will for the due administration of his lawes and the preseruing of vnitie emongest his subiectes Neither is it anie iniurie to the scripture or derogatiō to the maiestie thereof that the malice of men maketh it lesse sufficient to condemne heresies especially seing as Tertullian saieth the scriptures haue bene Lib. de praescript haeretic 1. Cor. 11. by the will off God so disposed as that they might ministre matter to heretikes seing it is writtē that there must be heresies which cā not be withowt the scriptures To this obiection of myne that the scriptures be so written that there was neuer heretike yeat that dyd not alleage scripture for the maintenaūce of the same and that thought not by the scriptures him selfe wel able to defende the same note I besech the good reader that M. Nowel maketh here no answere at al. Onely he maketh against this an other obiectiō that so the pope maye vnder b. 5. the name of the church mainteine and defende all errours and superstitions Whiche if it were true what woulde folowe other of this conclusion but that there shoulde be no iudge at all Is not this a propre kinde of answering trowe you But because the matter shall not remaine in that incerteintie I will M. Nowell answere youre reason although you woulde not answere mine I saye therefore that the pope as heade of Christes churche that is to saye defining or decreeing anye thinge concerning the affaires and busines thereof neuer erred yeat nor euer shall I proue it by auctoritye and by reason By the auctoritie of oure Sauiour him selfe who praing that Peters faithe might not faile coulde Lucae 22. not but obteine Whiche priuileage so obteined seing that Christe builded his churche not to continue for Peters lyfe tyme but for euer we maye not doubte but that it was giuen also to his successours S. Augustine as I noted before Epis 165. applied the wordes of Christ spoken of the Phariseis sitting in Moises chaire Quae dicunt facite quae autem faciunt Matth. 23. nolite facere Loke what they bid you doe doe it but do not as they do to the bishoppes of Rome succeding Peter and addeth that in so doing oure faithe shal be suer and certeine as the whiche being placed not in man but on God can neuer be scattred with anye tempest of schisme You haue the auctoritie of the Scripture you haue the iudgement of S. Augustine that Peters faithe shall continue in him and in his successours that to doe as they commaunde is to make oure faithe suer and defensible against the tempestes of all schismaticall stormes Now harken to reason Christe promised for euer to abide with his churche S. Paule calleth it the Matt. 28. 1. Timo. 3. piller of truthe If Christe be with it it can not erre if it be the piller of truth it admitteth no falsehode if it can admit no falsehode the pope whiche is the heade thereof and appointed by God to gouerne it in earthe can not in the gouernement thereof erre For if the heade might erre then might the whole body which is bound to folow the heade And thus bothe by auctoritie and reason by experience of these 1500. yeares it appeareth that there is greate difference betwene the two likelihodes that you put in the pope and in other priuate men touching the interpretatiō of the scripture And therefore vppon the ouerthrowe of this downe commeth all that you builde thereupon eitherin this place or elles where Hauing nowe taken youre pleasure sufficiently at vs comparing vs with Annas and Caiphas calling vs theeues aduersaries of the ghospell guiltie of manye heresies corruptions of religion and false superstitions you entre in to a common place of councelles whereof you saye as foloweth But the aduersaries off the Ghospell deale thus with vs Nowell b. 20. The Pope and all hys cleargye being guiltie off manye heresies c. and thereof accused doe assemble them selues together in a councell in the whiche nothing maye be moued muche lesse determined but suche as pleaseth the Pope him selfe there is enquirie made of vs who doe accuse them thereoff and offer to proue it and there vnhearde and vnseene we are condemned of our aduersaries c. Yow here note in the margent for the proufe hereof Dorman that nothing maie be moued in the councell but suche as pleaseth the pope Pighius in his 6. booke and first chapitre of his Hierarchie This place yowe alleaged before As I tolde you then so doe I nowe that you haue beelied Pighius Supra fol. 24. b. For he saieth not as you doe here that nothing maie be moued in the councell but suche as pleaseth the pope He saieth Haud feré fit almoste it is not otherwise not denieng as you saye he dothe that it can not be otherwise The wordes of Pighius note rather the greate diligence of the pope whiche is suche that when all the worlde shall meete together in a generall councell they can not for the moste parte name anye thinge to be refourmed or concluded that the Bishoppe of Rome with his learned councell about him hath not before forseene and handled then take awaye libertie from anye man to moue anie doubte to be resolued not considered before by the pope That the pope moueth ordinarily suche doubtes to the councell i st that offende you be angry with S. Peter his predecessour who practised the same first in the generall councell mentioned in the Actes of thapostles You accuse the pope and his and Act. 15. offer to proue it It is in deede the cōmon bragge of you al to saie you can proue vs Phariseis corrupters of religiō that the churche of Christe hathe vtterly failed and so furth The whiche if yow feare to proue in generall councelles yeat yow might me thinketh giue vs a taste of your prouffes in youre poisoned writinges To that that yowe complaine that yow are condemned vnhearde and vnsene we saie as yow gessed we woulde that yow might be hearde if yow listed against the whiche answere of oures yow replie How we are called and how we maie be heard let Iohn Husse Nowell fo 70. a. 2 called by the emperour Sigismunde his saulfe conduct vnder his greate emperiall seale to the councell of Constance with Hierom of Prague who bothe were contrary to the faithe giuen them by the greatest christian prince in the world condemned and burned to asshes be an eternall witnesse yea let their owne decree made in the saide councell which was that no faithe nor promise is to be kepte to anie heretike nor that anie man by anie promise standeth bounde to an heretike c. be a perpetuall testimonye off the same Beholde howe manie lyes in howe fewe lynes Iohn Dorman Husse being called to the councell of Constance brake the conditions of his saulfe conduct
house he confesseth the minde of S. Hierome whiche he saieth was vtterly that all churches ought to be vndre the Romaine See or no strangers from it If Erasmus in his interpretation before saing that the churche was not as he thought builded vpon Rome but vpon the faith of Petre agree with S. Hierome in this pointe that all churches be subiect to the Romaine See howe happeneth it that you and youre fellowes to withdrawe all men from this subiection to that See make that principle that the churche was builded not vpon Rome but vpon Petres his faithe youre chiefe grounde seing that in Erasmus iudgement bothe might stande well inoughe together Iff on the contrarye parte this interpretation made by Erasmus can not agree with the minde of Saint Hierome Why shoulde we rather credite Erasmus not sure off his owne opinion then S. Hierome confidently affirming the contrarye Yea and furder the same Erasmus in the beginning of his argument Nowell fol. 108. b. 1. vpon his treatye against the Luciferians whiche is nexte to his two epistles to Damasus hathe these wordes Nulla haeresis grauius afflixit c. No heresie hathe more grieuously afflicted the churches of all the worlde then the Arrians in so muche that it hathe wrapped in the bishoppes of Rome and the emperours them selues It pleaseth M. Dorman sometime to alleage Erasmus against vs whose auctoritye if it be good downe goeth the pope and all popery For if the bishoppes of Rome haue bene infected with heresie then is not there that vniuersall rocke As good men as Erasmus and better to haue susteined Dorman the contrary that there was neuer bishoppe of Rome heretike But if there had it foloweth not thereof that there is not that vniuersall rocke Let that be the answere till I come to youre question What if the Pope be an heretike Nowe if M. Dorman did not see these notes of Erasmus vpon Nowell b. 16. the place by him alleaged out of S. Hierome I praise his diligence he maye of Dorman be called Dormitantius as S. Hierome whome he falsely alleageth called Vigilantius and more iustlye bothe by nature and sounde of name may M. Dorman be so called then euer was Vigilantius by S. Hierome c. I sawe them and vnderstode them it appeareth better Dorman then you Reade S. Hierome contra Vigilantium ad Exuperium and then see who is likely by S. Hieromes minde to be called Dormitantius you who with that drowsy sleeping heretike raile against the tapers and lightes in the churche the worshipping of sainctes the reuerent keping of their blessed relikes or I who with saint Hierome mainteine the contrary But I thinke euen for that cause a little thinge woulde make yow to call S. Hierome Dormitantius to for it appeareth that it pleased yow neuer a deale that he shoulde so roughly handle youre deare frinde and therefore yow prefer youre allusion to my name before that of his to the name of Vigilantius But I woulde counsell yow M. No-well either to gette yow some new trym name such as is Theodore Basile or some suche like or elles to leaue scoffing at other till this that yow haue conteining nothing well in it maie be mended Because yowe perceiued that Erasmus either made little for youre purpose or that his auctoritie woulde not be muche set by yow saie But if Erasmus iudgement be nothing worthe c. I will yeat in Christes quarell that he is the rocke and not Petres rotten Nowell B. 26. chaire bring furthe one witnes not onelie greater then Erasmus but also equall with S. Hierome and aboue all papistes in credite and auctoritie S. Austen in his 13. sermon vpon the ghospell off Mathew Yow fight with your owne shadowe M. Nowell when Dorman Fol. 109. ◠1. yow imagine to encountre with anie matche that shoulde offre Christe wrong No man denieth to Christe that excellencie to be the rocke of his churche yow maie therfore put vp youre dagger the fraie was donne before it begonne But yeat hereof it foloweth not that therefore Petres chaire that is to saie Peter is not also a fundation in Christe the first and greatest fundation as a little before I showed To the auctoritie of S. Austen I answere that euen as youre other witnesse that yowe brought before Erasmus durst in this case affirme nothing boldely but only shewed his minde doubtefully so is S. Austen in this question as it Lib. 1. Retractat cap. 21. appeareth in his worckes not fully resolued For in his first booke of Retractations where yow saie most impudently that he repeateth and mainteineth moste earnestlie this interpretation An impudent lye made vpō 12. S. Austen B. 18. that Christe and not Petre is the rocke he proposing bothe the interpretations that Peter is the rocke as he confessed that the same sense he had bothe him selfe giuen in writing against Donatus and was song in his time by the mouthe of manye in the verses of S. Ambrose where speaking of the cocke he saieth Hoc ipsa petra ecclesiae canente culpam diluit at the singing of this cocke the rocke of the churche him selfe purged his faulte he proposing I saie this sense and also that other that Christ is that rocke concludeth in this wise Harum autem duarum sententiarum quae sit probabilior eligat lector Of these two opinions let the reader chose that whiche he thinketh moste probable Is this M. Nowell to defende moste earnestly that Christe and not Petre is the rocke to sett men at libertie to beleue in this pointe as they list Is this the candor the sincere and vpright dealing that yowe speake so muche of But if yowe will yeat by no meanes graunte that S. Austen doubted of this pointe if he were resolued on anie parte I will proue by alleaging diuerse places against this one of youres that he thought as we doe and not with yow First in a sermon that he made of Petres chaire he hathe these wordes Petrū itaque fundamentū ecclesiae dominus nominauit August Serm. de cathedra S. Petri ideo digné fundamentū hoc ecclesia colit supra quod ecclesiastici aedificij altitudo cōsurgit That is to saie Our Lord therfore named Petre the fundation of the church and for that cause dothe the churche worthily worship this fundation vpon the whiche the heigth of the ecclesiasticall building riseth Againe in an other place speaking of the firste miracle Sermon de Sanct. 26. that S. Petre did in restoring to a lame man the vse of his feete he writeth thus Audistis frequenter ipsum Petrum a Act. 3. domino petram nuncupatum sicut ait Tu es Petrus super Matth. 16. hanc petram oedificabo ecclesiam meam Si ergo Petrus petra est supra quam aedificatur ecclesia recté prius pedes sanat vt sicut in ecclesia fidei fundamentum continet ita in homine membrorum
there is no nede to write or saye anye thinge because I haue no ennemie at all And therefore he addeth For M. Dorman can not be ignorant that we in all oure Sermones Nowell fol. 123. a. 25. and writinges of suche matters doe make a moste cleere and euident difference betwene the functions and offices of princes ciuile magistrates and priestes ecclesiasticall ministres and neither did we euer teache that princes ought neither did they euer desire to execute the offices ecclesiasticall off ministring the Sacramentes preaching excommunicating absoluing and suche like I am not ignorant in deede of this qualification of youres Dorman inuented the rather to intice some seely soules to the taking of youre othe Whome in deede I maye well call seely that will therby any thing the soner be moued For youreselfe are not ignoraunt I trowe M. Nowell that the causes why we stande with you in this matter are not onelye for ministring the Sacramentes for preaching excommunicating absoluing but as I tolde yow and you here guilefully conceale this power extendeth farder to the giuing and making of lawes for the churche to auctoritie to iudge of doctrine wherewith the meÌ„bres must be fedde whether it be souÌ„de or otherwise for these be offices that beloÌ„g to the heade not to the membres excepte you will saie that the sheepe ought to iudge what meate is conuenient for them not the shepherde Againe to appease schismes is the office not of inferiour meÌ„bres but of the heade it selfe and yeat belongeth as youre selfe haue graunted to the chiefe prelaces of euery prouince Finally to be heade of the churche is to haue the gouernement of so manye soules as be in that churche whiche because no laye man c. can haue in Note this reason particuler bishoprickes it foloweth that none can haue ouer the whole churches of a realme vnited Of the whiche matter Chrisostome saieth At quum de ecclesiae praefectura Lib. 2. de Sacerdotio de credenda huit vel illi tam multarum animarum cura agitur vniuersa quidem muliebris natura functionis istius moli ac magnitudini coedat oportet itemque bona viroruÌ„ pars But when the question is of the gouernement of the churche of the committing to this man or that the charge of so many soules then must all the kinde of women giue place to the burden and greatenes of this office yea and a greate parte of men also You bring the examples of king Dauid Salomon c. who you saye had auctoritie in gouerning of the cleargie and churche matters though they might not execute all ecclesiasticall functions and offices This matter is answered in my first booke fol. 31. sequ Thither I referre the Reader What though oure moste graciouse souereigne ladye being a Nowell woman haue not so greate skill in feates of warre as haue her capitaines haue not so good knowledge in the lawes of her realme as her Iustices and other learned men in the lawes haue thoughe she haue in al good learning and in the scriptures toe more knowledge then had anie of youre popes these seuen hundred yeares I beleue and therfore no lette in that pointe but she maie be heade of the whole churche aswell and rather then the pope What if she fitte not in publike iudgement nor determine controuersies as doe her Iustices c. what I saie if she can not execute all ciuile offices in her owne persone woulde yow therfore take from her her ciuile principalitie c Surely yow maie with as good reason doe it as yow would take awaie her superioritie ouer her cleargie from her for that she can not maie not nor will not execute ecclesiasticall functions Your comparison is false M. Nowell For there is no lawe Dorman neither of goddes nor mannes that forbiddeth a Quene although a woman to sitte in iudgemeÌ„t or to be present with her armye in battaile as Delbora did both So that the not Iudic. cap. 5. doing herof procedeth not of lacke of habilitie or power as contrarywise it doth that the prince meddleth not with ecclesiasticall matters whose condition in that that he is a laie man maketh him vnhable for that function Wheras M. Nowell noteth the Quenes maiestie to haue more knowledge in all good learning and in the scriptures toe then had anye pope these seuen hundred yeares as I am not he that would abase those her maiesties rare giftes of excellent learning and princely qualities farre more plentifully by the goodnesse of God bestowed vpon her then anie other so noble prince man or woman that this daie liueth but as my bounden dutie is rendre moste humble thanckes to almighty God therefore so can I in no wise but abhorre this moste impudent parasite good Reader who vpon his beelefe as though he had made neuer a lye in all this booke before A lye 82. addeth this of all other the moste shamefull Whiche I nothing doubte but her graces moste rare modestie can so euill abide to here that longe ere this she hathe iudged him in her princely harte to be as he is a vaine lyer and shamelesse parasite Whome if her grace shoulde commaunde to An Emperours rewarde for a flatterer be rewarded for his labour as Sigismunde the emperour rewarded one of the same profession whome praising him aboue measure he buffeted as fast answering him when he asked why beatest thow me Emperour why bitest thow me flatterer as the rewarde were princely for suche a gift so were the facte worthy so mightie a prince But nowe AEneas Siluius li. 2. Com. de reb gest Alphonsi to the good Reader what cause haste thowe to trust hereafter this mans beliefe in anie matter touching the pope the learning considered of Innocentius the thirde Aeneas Siluius called Pius the 2. Adrianus 6. Marcelâ—us 2. Paulus 4. and Pius 4. that nowe is and diuerse other within that compasse as to the Learned is not vnknowen This parasite staieth not here but going farder sayeth Though the Quenes maiestie haue not that vnderstanding of Nowell fol. 124. a. 1. all the affaires of her realme that experience in all thinges that actiuitie in executing them that hathe the whole bodye of her moste honorable councel yeat dothe the whole bodye of her councell though moste honorable humbly acknowledge her to be their heade only proude priestes because some thinges are incideÌ„t to their office which the prince maye not * VVhat if the prince listed nor list not to doe refuse their Souereigne to be their supreme gouernour You beely all priestes M. Nowell and maye be ashamed to make the bishoppes only councellors in religion whom Dorman before you confessed by S. Cyprians minde to be iudges in earthe in Christes steede whereas you would here make them no iudges or iudges in the princes steede You deale vntruly to sclaundre the cleargie as you doe In whose defence I wil saye as S. Ambrose