his preaching in the peoples minds If by authority Saint Ierom did meane supreme power ouer the other Apostles then Iames and Iohn should haue had it as well as Peter which is not your Catholike doctrine Also an inferiour or equall in power may be superiour in authority or estimation as Tully saith of Metellus a priuate man though chosen Consull for the yeere following That hee forbade certaine playes when an officer had allowed them and that which he could not obtaine by power Cicero oratione in Pisonem he did obtaine by authority that is with the credit which hee had with the people 2 The Primacy which the Fathers speake of was the Primacy of Order not of Power because Peter was first called to be an Apostle and first reckoned this argues no more power then the Fore-man of the Iury hath ouer the rest 3 The prerogatiue of Principality was in the excellency of grace and not of power as we say the Prince of Philosophers Aristotle the Prince of Poets Homer that is the wittiest or most excellent not Lord and master ouer the rest In this sence Saint Austine speaketh Peter the Apostle in whom that grace and Primacy are so superminent was corrected by Paul a latter Apostle by calling Saint Paul a latter Apostle hee sheweth his meaning of Saint Peters Primacy to bee of his first being an Apostle and by ioyning Grace with Primacy he sheweth that in greatnesse of grace consisted his supereminency So saith Saint Austen also b Aug. in Ioan. Tract 124. that Peter was Natura vnus homo gratia vnus Christianus abundantiori gratia vnus idemque primus Apostolus But to be chiefe in grace is one thing to be chiefe in power another thing c Turrecrem in Summa de Ecclesia l 2 c. 82. Cardinal Turrecramata saith A meane Christian yea an old woman may in perfection of grace and amplenesse of vertues be greater then the Pope but not in power of iurisdiction If excellency of grace might carry the supremacy of power you should take it from Saint Peter and giue it to the blessed Virgin By gifts of grace we vnderstand all blessings wherewith our Lord honoured him insomuch as in one thing or other he surpassed euery one of the Apostles Saint Iohn might exceed him in multitude of prophesies and reuelations and many gifts of grace as Saint Ierom declareth d Ierom. aduersus Iouinianum lib. 1. Saint Paul excelled him in the chiefest gifts and laboured more then all the rest 1 Cor. 15. so that Saint Austen giues excellent grace to Peter e De bapt con Donatistas lib. 2. c. 1. most excellent grace to Paul f in Psal 130. and cals him The Apostle by an excellency g Cont. duas epist pelagianorum lib. 3. c. 1. yet Saint Peter excelled Saint Paul in Primacy or being first chosen and Saint Iohn in age being the elder and therefore preferred before them to be the chiefe of the Apostles by Saint Ieroms opinion h Aetati delatuÌ„ est quia Petrus erat senior Hiero 1. adu Iouin lib. 1. To this Bellarmine yeeldeth i Bellar. lib. 1. de rom pontif cap. 27. § respoÌ„deo Paulum seeing Paul was called The Apostle per Antonomasiam quia plura scripsit doctior as sapientior fuit cateris also for planting more Churches then any other for the other Apostles were sent to certaine Prouinces he to all the Gentils without limitation and he laboured more abundantly then they all 1 Cor. 15. And after k § testatur ib. § fortasse Paul also may bee called princeps Apostolorum quia munus Apostolicum excellentissime ad impleuit as we call Virgil prince of Poets and Cicero prince of Orators Againe Nam etsi Petrus maior est potestate Paulus maior est sapientia Leo makes them the two eyes of the body whereof Christ is the head De quorum meritis atque virtutibus nihil diuersum nihil debemus sentire discretum quia illos electio pares labor similes finis fecit aequales The like hath Maximus ib. and Saint Gregory Paulus Apostolus Petro Apostolorum primo in principata Apostolico frater est Againe l Bellar. ib. §. denique si hac Paulus videtur plus Ecclesiae profuisse quà m Petrus plures enim ex gentibus ad Christi fidem adduxit plures prouincias summo cum labore peragrauit plura scripta eaque vtilissima nobis reliquit Antiq. Saint Ierom saith further that Saint Peter was made the head of the Apostles that all occasion of Schisme might be taken away Will you make nothing of those titles which the Scriptures and Fathers so frequently giue him of authority primacy principality supereminency the mouth of the Apostles the top the highest the president the head and such like Antiquis Nothing at all for that power which the Church of Rome now claymes by them and which hee neuer claymed nor vsed neither did the Scriptures or Fathers giue him What they gaue him we willingly yeeld A principality of Order Estimation and Grace For all Saint Peters power is comprised in the keyes promised him and in building the Church vpon him but all the Apostles receiue the keyes by Ieroms iudgement and the Church is built vpon them equally Ergo by his iudgement Peter was not ouer them in power and if you will yet say hee had some gouernment ouer them what can it else bee but a guidance not as a Monarch ouer subiects or inferiours D. Raynolds ib. pag. 226 227. D. Field l. 5. cap 24. but as in Aristocracy head of the company which in power are his equals For in all assemblies about affayres of gouernment there must needs bee one for orders sake and peace to begin to end to moderate the Actions and this is Saint Peters preheminence which Saint Ierome m Hieronym adu Iouin lib. 2. meant For hauing set downe his aduersaries obiection But thou saist The Church is built vpon Peter he answereth Although the same be done in another place vpon all the Apostles and they all receiue the keyes of the Kingdome of Heauen and the strength of the Church is grounded on them equally yet there is one chosen among the twelue that a head being appointed occasion of Schisme might be takeÌ„ away The like hath S. Cyprian n Cyprian de Vnitate Ecclesia Erant vtique caeteri Apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consorâ—io praediti honoris potestatis sed exordium ab vnitate prosiciscitur c. The other Apostles saith he were that which Peter was endewed with the same fellowship both of honour and power but the beginning proceedeth from vnity that the Church may be shewed to be one To speake at once view all the titles of excellency giuen by the ancient Fathers to S. Peter alleadged by Bellarmine o De rom pont lib. 1. cap. 25. weigh them aduisedly without preiudice or
but one yeere and three months After him succeeded Romanus 1. Who abrogated the decrees and acts of Steuen and reygned but three months then came Theodorus 2. who restored also Formosus his acts and followers liuing Pope but twenty dayes Then succeeded Iohn 9. Platina cals him Iohn the tenth who fully restored the acts of Formosus and abrogated Steuens confirming all by a Councell Notwithstanding all this Sergius 3. restored Steuen and condemned Formosus agayne admitted them to priesthood againe whom Formosus had deposed and whom Formosus had ordered hee againe degraded and caused them to take new Orders and againe tooke vp Formosus his body out of the sepulcher beheaded it and cast the body into Tyber as vnworthy the honour of buriall Whereupon saith Baronius l Baron anno 908. one Auxilius then wrote a dialogue betwixt Infensor and Defensor against this inbred discord of the Romish Church and of the Popes ordinations exordinations and supeâ—-ordinations c. m Nauclerus generat 31. initio Thus were Saint Peters successors whirled about not with the spirit of godlinesse but with the spirit of giddinesse Vertigo rotabat Petri successores saith Krantzius n Krantzius Metrepolis l. 2 c. 22. Martin Polon Nanclerus ib. saith there were 8. Popes in one King Lodowicks time who reygned not aboue 12 yeeres and the head of the Church was long without a brayne Where was then the infallibility of these Popes iudgement in the gouernment of the greatest affayres of the Church where was their charity and holinesse nay where was ordinary honesty ciuility or humanity Here was indeed a most bestiall rage reaching not onely to the death-bed but to the graue with digging vp bones dismembring dead carkasses derogating from their persons abrogating their acts disanulling their ordinations disgracing their Fauorites degrading the Prelats by their predecessors preferred Pope against Pope one head of the Church against another and Councells against Councells setting the world in amaze dissoluing religion and gouernment that men knew not what to thinke nor what to doe Where was the vnity of minde and peace among inferiours when the heads were so brainsicke or so hare-braind or rather wolfe-braind Antiq. Enough enough you haue wearied and stuncke mee out indeed with these filthy storyes which I would neuer haue beleeued had you not turned mee to their owne authours to reade them with mine owne eyes But it is most admirable that God did yet preserue his Church by such wicked instruments for you know the doctrine and sacraments deliuered by Iudas were good and profitable though hee was wicked Antiquiss o Genebrard quo supra â— tanto numero pontificuÌ„ quinque modò satis tenuiter landatur Our Sauiour in chusing Iudas had a purpose to saue vs by working good out of his treason but had hee chosen ten Iudasses for one or two good Apostles the world would haue muttered at him as improuident Your Genebrard reports of 50 Popes Apostaticall together and scarce fiue of them any whit Apostolicall and doubtlesse hee speakes the best for his owne side and the after times grew worse rather than better Also though the ministeriall acts being ordinary and receiued of the Apostles you will say might bee effectuall though wicked men performe them which to deny is contrafidem and so condemnes them that abrogated Formâ—sus his ordinations p Bellar. de Rom. pont l. 4 cap. 2. § vigesimus sept §. sed obiicies yet their infallibility being an extraordinay priuiledge in things not ordered by the Apostles hath no probability at all but rather the crossing one of another in their Decrees and in their Counsells called and confirmed by themselues vtterly confutes it §. 4. Antiq. These things you draw in à latere sidelings shew mee some Popes that haue directly and facto indeed erred in the Faith and then I shall thinke them fallible See D. Field Church booke 5. cap. 43. Bellar. de Rom pont lib 4. Antiquis Bellarmine himselfe yeelds you enow though he labour with all his art and wit to excuse all for some haue erred too grossely to be excused too manifestly to be denied 1 Pope Gregory 3. Ex ignorantia lapsus est saith Bellarmine i Bellar. ib c 12. §. sed contra hoc est c. when he permitted a man to take a second wife his first yet liuing but vnable to pay her debt vnto him and taught that in some case a man might with the license of his wife marry another and so haue two at once which indeed is false doctrine and so defined by the Councell of Trent sels 24. can 2. 2 ib cap. 8. §. Decimus est Marcellinus 2 Pope Marcellinus beyoÌ„d decreeing proceeded to fact sacrificed to Idols teaching Idolatry and Hetheamsme by fact and example But it was for feare of death saith Bellarmine And 3 ib. cap. 9. 3 Pope Liberius subscribed to the Arrian heresie set his hand against Athanasius wrote wicked Epistles but saith Bellarmine it was for feare of death or torments A man may by the same reason excuse Peters deniall of Christ and say it was no sinne if this was no error Pope Vigillus wrote to the Empresse 4 ib. cap. 10. and to the heretikes confirming their heresie and cursing the Catholike teachers that confessed two natures in Christ wicked letters vnworthy a Christian man But saith Bellarmine hee did it for desire of the Papacy and in great strayts into which his ambition had cast him As though wicked affections could excuse mens errours Pope Honorius was condemned for an heretike 5 ib. cap. 11. by the sixt generall Councell and againe by the seuenth and in an Epistle of Pope Leo but all these were corrupted saith Bellarmine or misinformed See this man liuing but yesterday knowes better than whole Councels Popes and authors liuing in that age and is bold to accuse whole generall Councels of corruption to keepe one Pope from corruption Pope Celestine 3. 6 ib. cap. 14. § cricesimus tertius cannot bee excused from heresie saith their Alphonsus de Castro for teaching that by heresie Matrimony is so farre dissolued that the innocent party may marry againe the contrary whereof is defined by the Councell of Trent Sess 24. Cannon 5. and by Innocent 3. Bellarmine saith This was indeed Celestines opinion but not any decree a poore excuse 7 ib. cap. 14. See many Popes crossing one another in iudgement ex diam etro noted by Erasmus annot in 1 Cor. 7. pag. 373 374. Basilea 1522 cited by B. MortoÌ„ Appeal l. 3. c 15 § 1. p 403. Pope Iohn 22. held opinion that the soules departed came not to see God till after the resurrection Bellarmine answers hee might so hold without danger because yet there had beene no definition of the Church in this point also he purposed to define the question but was by death preuented A slender answer leauing him still infallibly faulty §. 5. Antiq. Sir you
Canonicall Scriptures Decret c. in Canonicis dist 19. § V. Thus Erasmus argueth Annot. in 1 Cor. 7. B. Mort Appeal l. 2. c. 20. sect 5. l 3. c. 15. §. 4. Consider lastly what need had there beene of any Councels to what end was so much labour and cost bestowed to what purpose to trouble so many Vniuersities to call together so many learned Diuines to turne ouer so many bookes to beate their heads in the finding out of the truth in discussing of hard questions and satisfying of doubts if all this might be so quickly easily and sweetly done by the onely iudgement and determination of the Pope CHAP. 8. Of the good which the Popes Supremacy might doe to the Church § 1. That is vrged but 2. answered that policies agreeable to Gods word and the Primitiue Church onely are sufficient and blessed by God § 3. But this policy might be set vp by any sect § 4. It is vnprofitable and vntollerable 5. shewed by examples of Hildebrand 6. The voiages against the Turke proued profitable to the Pope not to Christian Princes 7. as appeared by the Story of Gregory 9. and Frederik 2. Emperour and 8. many other most wicked Popes § 9. The Emperour Phocas erred much in gouernment in making the Pope so great so farre from him For Popes shortly after proued Masters of mis-rule eiecting the Emperors out of Italy § 10. Their turbulent proceeding to dethrone Princes § 11. Their troubles wrought in England in King Henry 1. his time by Anselme In King Henry 2. time by Becket In King Iohns reygne by Pope Innocent § 12. In these latter times of Queene Elizabeth by the Bull of Pius Quintus and the erecting of Seminaries at Rome and Rhemes Schooles of Traytors The reasons briefly touched 1. Of the Rebellion in the North 2. Of Ormonds brethren 3. and 4. Of other petty conspiracies 5. Stukely 6. Sanders 7. Someruile 8. Motiues to the Ladies of Honour 9. Of Throgmorton 10. Mendoza 11. Creighton the Iesuite 12. Parry 13. Percy 14. Sauage 15. Balard with his complices 16. Aubespineus 17. Stanley and Yorke 18. The Spanish Armado 19. Lopez 20. Squire 21. Tyrone And in the time of King Iames 22. Watson Clarke and others 23. The Powder treason Some obseruations out of these § 13. A good Christian abhorreth these treasons and reiecteth the doctrine that teacheth them § 14. And thereby is by reason forced to renounce to be an absolute Papist and to thinke the doctrines grounded onely vpon the Popes authority without Scripture to be vnnecessary and consequently to acknowledge that it is not necessary to be a Roman-Catholike The conclusion with a briefe recapitulation of the whole precedent conference §. 1. Antiquus ALthough the supreme gouernment of the Church by the Pope and the infallibility of his iudgement could not bee proued by diuine proofes yet is the good thereof so great for the preseruation of peace and vnity and much other happinesse both in the Church and Common-wealth that euen in good reason and policy the very shadowes of proofes should be admitted as sufficient to establish it And if such power and infallible iudgement may be giuen to any it is most fit it be giuen to him that hath from all Antiquity beene accounted the principall Patriarch and the high Bishop of the principall City of the world Antiquissimus Indeed Antiquus now I thinke you hit the nayle on the head for the Popes Supremacy and infallibility hath no other ground but meere humane policy shadowed by the Scripture cunningly wrested deuised by their learned Politicians for their owne wealth and greatnesse and taught by their Agents as most necessary for peace vnity and much other good a Bellar de Rom. Pont. l. 4. c. 6. § quarta proposit o. Probabile est pâ—eque credi potest pontificem vt pontificem errare non posse c. Bellarmine seemes to confesse thus much when he saith It is probable may piously be thought that the Pope as Pope cannot erre nor as a particular person be an heretike Had hee had better arguments is it probable hee would haue come in with Probabile est piéque credi potest But your b Costerus Enchir pag. 123. Si nullum caput visibile in ecclesia a Christo constitutum foret vehementer optari ab omnibus oporteret Costerus the Iesuite is a little more plaine If there were no visible head saith he appointed by Christ in the Church yet such an one ought to be wished for of all men and your D. c Alablaster Motiue 6. Alablaster yet more plainely Where saith he there is not an infallible authority which doth iudge and decide controuersies by remouing all occasions of doubt and reply and vnto which absolute obedience is tied there must needs be variety of iudgements and opinions which cannot be tyed in one knot And therefore the Protestants haue done very vnwisely to disgrace and reiect this profitable policy of the Church the fountaine of vnity Mr Alablaster cals it policy §. 2. But alas Deare friend In Gods businesse I looke onely for Truth and Sincerity which God may blesse and prosper not for shadowes and policy without them which God doth ordinarily infatuate and confound Happy had it beene for the Angels if they had continued in the excellency of their first estate but when they stroue to be higher their policy failed them they fell lower and of Angels became diuels Gods ordinance for d Ephes 4. vers 12 13 15. gathering of his Saints e vers 14. preseruing true and vncorrupt doctrine and f vers 16. effectuall perfecting of the Church in euery part was saith Saint Paul g vers 11. He gaue some Apostles some Prophets some Euangelists some Pastors and Teachers If one visible Head had beene necessary to these purposes heere was the place he should be spoken of wherein since hee is not mentioned doubtlesse Saint Paul knew no such ordinance of God See the like Catalogue of Church-Officers in 1 Cor. 12.28 29. c. this one visible head is neuer mentioned nor heere nor in any other place of Scripture but left out as supernumerarius and superfluous And we finde whilst Gods ordinance was obserued the Church did wonderfully prosper when it was shouldered out out by humane policies all things grew worse and went to wracke It was an euident worke of Gods Spirit h B. Vsher Sermon at Wansted pag. 20. that the first planters of Religion and their successors spreading themselues through the whole world layd the foundations of the â—ame Faith euery where in great vnity and vniformity and yet were kept only by the Vnity of the Spirit in that bond of peace without setting vp any one man on earth ouer them all to keepe peace and vnity The true bond which contained the Doctors and Fathers of the Primitiue Church in the vnity of Faith and wrought the conuersion of Nations continueth in our Church also
Religion in this point Antiq. I must needs doe so and I doe not thinke them true Catholikes that hold and practise this point of Supremacy Papists they may bee as you terme them for so holding with the Pope but Catholikes they cannot be for this Doctrine is not Catholike §. 14. Antiquis Doe you not see also how greatly you shake the Popes authority by this meanes and ouerturne the foundation of his Supremacy for your Popes haue both claymed and practised this full authority as well in ciuill and temporall things as in Ecclesiasticall and vpon the same grounds And your learned Doctors thinke their grounds as firme for the one as for the other Your Great Bellarmine vpon whom you so much rely saith o Bellarm. de Pont. Rom l. 5. cap. 6. initio Although the Pope as Pope hath not any more temporall power which other Doctors say he hath yet so farre as it may make for the spirituall good he hath supreme power to dispose of the temporall things of all Christians And p Ib. cap. 7. hee labours to proue that the Pope may depose Princes and dispose of their kingdomes if he finde it good for the Church as a sheephard may deale with Wolues and vnruly Rammes and other sheepe And many of your Doctors haue the like as Eudaemon Ioannes Sidonius Suarez Becanus Mariana Grotzerus Costerus Baronius Sanders Allen and thousands more Antiq. I am very sorrowfull that so great learned men should hold such an opinion I hold them erroneous and euill Antiquis Then you must confesse that the Church of Rome may erre and that in a maine point both of doctrine and practise to the great hurt of the Catholike Church and many mens destruction both of body and soule in being traytors and rebels against their Soueraignes and murderers of people of which crimes your Popes and Doctors are guilty Antiq. I must needs grant that some haue erred in the Church but not the whole Church neither I hope hath any Pope taught this Ex Cathedra Antiquis This some is a large some the greatest part of your Church and I thinke the Pope teacheth it Ex Cathedra when hee decrees it out of his Pontificall iudgement and authority and sends out his iudiciall excommunications vnder seale against Princes to depose them as Pius 5. did against our Queene Elizabeth and Breefes to forbid his Catholikes to take the oath of ciuill Alleagiance as Paulus 5. did to our English Now consider well what you grant in effect that the greatest part of the Church yea the most conspicuous and eminent men in the Church and the Pope also may erre in some great and dangerous point and yet because some few inferiour and obscure persons hold the truth the true Church is still sufficiently visible and illustrious This you had not wont to yeeld to the Protestants See card Perons oration in the third inconuenience In K Iamâ—s his Remonstrance p. 183. 187. c. Cardinall Perone dare not grant it but saith this would proue the Church of Rome to be Antichristian and hereticall and to haue ceased to be the Spouse of Christ for a long time and to haue taught many points without authority as Transubstantiation auricular confession c. for these he ranketh with the Popes power to depose Kings and if the Scriptures yeeld no ground for the one no more doe they for the other These and diuerse other points which they hold different from vs haue no other ground but the authority of that Churâ—h which is found to erre in great and dangerous matters See this in B. Whites answer alleadged p. 87 Your owne learned Iesuite Mr Fisher vpon whose iudgement your English Roman Catholikes doe much relye saith Thâ—t if the Church could deliuer by consent of Ancestors together with truth some errors her Traditions euen about the truth were questionable and could not be beleeued vpon the warrant of her Tradition and this he proueth substantially Neither doe we receiue doctines vpon the Churches warrant only as Doctor White there largely learnedly sheweth but vpon their agreeing with the holy Scriptures Now we may assume The Church of Rome doth deliuer by consent of many Ancestors from Gregory 7. time to our times some errours as this concerning her power to depose Kings and dissolue oathes of Alleagiance c. Ergo her traditions or teaching are questionable and cannot be beleeued vpon the account of her Tradition Consequently all other her doctrines not grounded vpon Scripture are questionable and our subiection to her iudgement vnnecessary Antiq. Truly if I grant the former doctrine of her power to depose Kings c. to be erroneous as I must needs grant I know not how to auoyd this reason 1 Booke 1. cap 1. And therefore not to trouble you longer at this time Since you haue shewed me 1. that your Chuch differeth nothing from the Romish Church in the old true doctrine which it continueth but onely in some corruptions which it hath added and that 2. corruptions may in time come into any particular Church the Roman not excepted 2 cap. 2. but warned thereof by the Scriptures 3. 3 cap. 3. shewing also the time when they grew obseruable and notorious in the Roman Church 4 cap. 4. and 4 that they were opposed from time so time and reformation called for 5 cap. 5. shewing also 5. the principall points wherein the difference consists and that you hold all necessary doctrines 6 cap. 6. 6. misliking many policies by them vsed to maintaine their new corruptions And further haue shewed mee Booke 2. that this your Church for the substance of the doctrine thereof hath alwayes beene visible 7. as all one with the Primitiue Church 7 cap. 1. and the Greeke and Easterne Churches and the Waldenses that separated from the corruptions of the Papacy yea and with the Roman Church it selfe excepting the Papacy and the maintainers thereof although in some 8 8 cap. 2. ceremonies and priuate opinions both you and the Romish haue departed from fome Fathers wherin 9. 9 cap. 3 also there was difference among themselues as there is also still among the Roman Doctors And further you haue shewed mee 10. 10. cap 4. a Rule to iudge all Churches and Christians by By which Rule iudged right by the Roman Doctors you approue your selues to hold all things necessary to saluation and thereby to be the true Church of God and agreeing therein with all true Churches that are or euer were in the world yea and that 11. 11 cap 5. your Bishops and Ministers haue as good succession from the Apostles as any other in the world although 12. 12 cap. 6. 13. cap. 7. you admit not the B. of Romes Supremacy ouer al Churches and Christians in the world neither 13. his Infallibility both which you proue to be vnknowne and vnreceiued of the Ancients and 14. 14 cap. 8. both vnprofitable and
is the man that deliuers it If a Priest therefore teach it be it true be it false take it as Gods Oracle 2 Thess 2.4 What can Antichrist doe more wheÌ„ he sits in the Temple of God as God exalts himselfe aboue God but disgrace Gods Word set vp his owne make Gods Word speake what he list both it and the sense of it shall receiue authority from him His Lawes his Iudgement his Agents shall be receiued without examination And the holy Word of God which should be the rule of all true faith and good actions shall lose his place of leading and follow the Popes fancy By these grounds meanes and shifts all the seeking for reformation at the Popes and Romish Prelates hands was vtterly auoyded And the Roman Church as now it stands is the multitude of such onely as magnifie admire and adore the plenitude of Papall power and infallibility of iudgement and are so farre from Reformation of errours and corruptions formerly cryed against and by many of themselues confessed that they decree them now to be good impose them now as De fide points of faith and doctrines of the Church yea and persecute with curses fire and sword the discouerers reprouers and reformers thereof So that there was no possibility left to good and godly Princes and States and to true-hearted godly learned men but either against their knowledge and conscience to liue slaues to the vnsupportable tyranny and corruptions of the Pope or else to reforme these abuses euery one in their owne Countries and if the whole field of the Church could not be purged and dressed yet euery one to weed out of their owne Lanâ—s and Furlongs the Tares and filth that choked the good Corne. Thus I haue shewed you that errours and corruptions had crept into the once pure and famous Church of Rome and that they were noted and cryed out vpon by many Historians Learned men Bishops Doctors Princes and People and Reformation sought for many Ages before it could he performed And that neither Luther nor any other learned men nor Princes euer intended to erect a new Church but by reforming of the Abuses crept in to reduce the Church to her ancient purity Whereupon the Protestant Churches are truly called The Reformed Churches Antiquus Well sir shew me now the true difference betwixt your new reformed Churches and the Church of Rome as now it is How farre they agree and wherein they differ in some principall points Antiquissimus I will and the rather because some rayling Rabsaches of your side impudently say and print that The Protestants haue no Faith no Hope A namelesse Author be like ashamed to set to his name beginning his booke with these words The Protestants haue no Faith c. no Charitie no Repentance no Iustification no Church no Altar no Sacrifice no Priest no Religion no Christ I hope to make it apparant that we hold all the points of Faith necessary and sufficient to good life on earth and saluation in heauen and that you confesse wee hold them truely because you hold the same and we onely refuse your later needlesse and vnsound additions there unto CHAP. 5. The principall points of Doctrine wherin the Romish and the Reformed Churches agree and wherein they differ Protestants refuse the popes earthly Kingdome and maintaine Christs heauenly 1 A note of the chief-points of Christian Doctrine wherin the Protestants and Romanists fully agree shewing also the Romish additions therevnto 2 The Protestants doctrine in generall iustified by Cardinall Contarene Cardinall Campeggio and our Liturgy by Pope Pius 4. 3 But the Popes reach further at an earthly Church-kingdome and fourthly challenge a supremacy ouer all Christians and Churches in the world 5 More specially ouer the Cleargy exempting them from being subiects to Princes 6 Yea ouer all Christian princes and their states to depose dispose and transpose them and to absolue subiects from their alleageance to rebell c. 7 To dissolue Oathes Bonds and Leagues 8 To giue dispensations to contract or dissolue Matrimony 9 And other dispensations and exemptions from Lawes §. 1. Antiquissimus 1 WEe beleeue a Articles of the yeare 1562 art 1. one true God inuisible incorporeall immortall infinite in wisedome power goodnesse maker preseruer and gouernour of all things and that in the vnity of this God-head there be 3 persons of one substance coequall in wisedome goodnesse power eternity the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost You beleeue the same But your exalting and adoring the Blessed Virgin whom we honour and reuerence so farre as we may any the most excellent creature in such sort as you entitle her a Goddesse b Lâ—…siâ—…s oftâ—…n â—…alâ—…er D am a 〈◊〉 siâ— in his 〈…〉 and 〈◊〉 where the 〈…〉 and â—…tice Queene of Heauen c So Hortul aâ—i ae 117. b such wa tâ—e hâ—resie oâ— the Câ—llâ— dâ—â—â—s Vpip â—an â—er 79. and of the world d â—o Hort anime 154 b and make the like prayers to her as you doe to God e You call her soâ—ne Loâ—d her Lady him Sauiour her saluatrix him Mediator her Mediatresse him King hâ—r Quâ—enâ— him God her Goddesse As appeares in many of your prayers as saâ—â—â— Râ—gâ—â—â— â—â—ter misericordiae vita dulcedo salue And consolatio desolatorâ—m via eâ—â—antium sâ—â—as oâ—â—â—m in te sperantium In Offiâ—io B. Mariae Reformato iussu Fij 5. edito And in the Ladies Psalter wherin the words of honour and prayers are turned from God to hâ—r in places innumerable Psal 50. misâ—rere mei domina mundaâ—e ab â—â—â—ibus iniquitatibus meâ—s essâ—nde gratiam tuam super me Psal 89. Domina resugium faâ—ta es noâ—â—s in cuncâ—â— nâ—cessitatibus nostris Psal 2. protegat nos dextra tua mater dei euen with authority and command ouer her Sonne f As their owne Cassander confesseth consult art 21. they make Christ raigning in heauen yet subiect to his Motâ—er Monstra te esse Matrem In Bâ—eviâ—r Rom. officio B. Mariae reformat And Matris iâ—â—e impeâ—a Redemptori Missal Parisiens Dâ—reus to Whitaker fol. 352. saith This is not against Religion and as a partaker of the gouernment of his Kingdome g They assigne Iustice to Christ and Mercy to the Virgin As Gabriâ—â—l Bâ—eâ— in exposit Canoâ— Missae lect 80. saith Confuâ—imus primò ad b atissimam Virginâ—m caelorum reginam cui Rex Regum Pater caelestis dimidium â—egni sui dedit post Pater caelâ—stis cum hâ—beat institiam misericordiam tanqâ—am potioâ—a regni sui bona iustitiâ— sibâ— retenta misericordiam Matri Virgini concessit The like is written by many other of their learned men viri celebrâ—s saith Cassander consult art 21. The great learnâ—d â—esuite Gregorius de Valentia often sets Christ after his mother thus Gloriâ— deo B Virgâ—nâ— Mariâ— Doâ—inae nostiae Item Iesu Christo At the end of his Treatises De satisfact De Jdo olat De
and redeemed vs. You beleeue so also but you adde Christ hath satisfied onely for the eternall punishment and for sinnes before Baptisme but that we must satisfie for our following sins August serm 13. De verbis dom Christus suscipiendo poenam non suscipiendo culpam culpam deleuit poenam See B Mortons Appeal lib. 1. cap 2 sect 23. § 47. lib. 2. cap. 15. sect 8 9 10. and also for the temporall punishment due to all our sins either vpon earth or in Purgatory This we account an errour against the foundation making Christ but halfe a Sauiour and against reason for he that forgiues the fault forgiues the punishment also in S. Augustines opinion 24 We beleeue that we ought to pray for all the members of Christs militant Church vpon earth you beleeue so too but you adde wee ought also to pray for the soules suffering in Purgatory which was a thing long time vnknowne to the Church of God §. 2. These are the principall points of Religion and the foundation of our church by your approbatioÌ„ of theÌ„ you grant them all to be true good ancient and Catholicke which may appeare also by that which followeth Se hâ—story of the Councell of Trent lib. 1. pag. 95. At a Diet in Râ—tisbon anno 1541. where was present Iasper Cardinall Contareni the Popes Nuncio Granuel deliuered a booke of 22 Articles to be considered of by the Diuines of both sides whereof the chiefe were chosen by the Emperour to dispute namely Eckius Flugius and Gropperus Romists Melancthon Bucer and Pâ—storia Protestants and vpon their debating some things were approued and some amended by common consent They dissented onely in fiue things and in seuenteene they all finally agreed Ibib. pag. 54.55 Also when the Augustane confession of the Protestant Princes and Diuines was read at Augspurge anno 1530 the Popes Legate Cardinall Campeggio said plainly to the Emperour that the difference of that doctrine from the Roman for the most part seemed verball and that it imported not much whether one spake after one manner or after another and that for the present there was no cause to make any strict examination of the doctrine onely meanes should be vsed that the Protestant should goe no further on See Annals Elizah â—ngl pag 63. and Relation of Religionin the West parts pag. x. 2. 159. And Pope Pius the fourth anno 1560. offered to Queene Elizabeth to allow our whole Booke of Common Prayer if she would receiue it as from him and by his authority And so he might well doe for the booke was with great iudgement purposely so framed out of the grounds of Religion wherein both sides agree that their very Catholickes might resort vnto it without scruple or scandall if Faction more then reason did not sway The truth is were it not for other causes the Controuersies of points of Religion might well be compounded betwixt vs. For the learned of them know that our doctrine is sufficient to make vs true Christi ans both for faith and good life to make vs liue holily righteously and soberly by Gods grace to become good subiects to our Princes good neighbors amongst men good diligent and dutifull members of the Common-wealth painfull peaceable and blessed people and blessings to the Countrey where we liue and to conduct vs thorow all necessary gratious wayes and means ordained by God to eternall blessednesse There is no defect in our doctrine to these ends to promote Christs Kingdome both of grace and glory §. 3. Onely they know and we confesse our Doctrine is insufficient to set vp an earthly Church-kingdome instead of Christs heauenly Kingdome such as the Pope desireth ouer-topping all other Christian Princes and Potentates and maintained with all worldly wealth pompe and glory Were it the purity of Religion which he desired described and receiued in the best Primitiue times of the Church our Religion would abundantly satisfie him but this high transcendent supremacy of the Pope farre beyond those Primitiue times and the wealth of the world to maintaine him and his in their greatnesse Acts 19.28 25. is the great Diana of the Romans which they striue for And these doctrinall controuersies are but subordinate meanes subtilly kept on foot to make the aduersaries of his supremacy more odious For by that craft their wealth is maintained D. Francis White Orthodox faith Epist dedic Ramolds Hart confer cap. 7. dinis 6 7. pag. 367 seq Our Doctor Reinolds obserueth well and proueth largely that this in these latter Ages hath been the Pope maine aime and practise And men of skill and iudgement who knew the popes thorowly and faithfully set forth their liues haue opened this secret and mystery of State as it hath been managed since it grew to maiesty that they minde the propping vp of their owne Kingdome while they pretend the worship of Christ and that in the popes language the Church doth signifie not the company of the faithfull seruants of God but the Papacy that is the dominion and princehood of the pope in things both temporall and spirituall K. Iames his Remonstrance to Peron pag. 246. And our late learned and iudicious King Iames saith The name of the Church serueth in this our corrupt Age as a cloke to couer a thousand new inuentions and no longer signifies the Assembly of the faithfull or such as beleeue in Iesus Christ according to his Word but a certaine glorious ostentation and temporall Monarchy whereof the pope forsooth is the supreame head Ibid. pag. 259. And S. Peters net is now changed into a casting net or a flew to fish for all the wealth of most flourishing kingdomes 1 To this end consider whether there be more care and policy to maintaine the popes greatnesse and reuenues then to make good Christians For where good Christians are already such as the Primitiue Christians were thither the popes Emissaries come to make them the popes subiects and sticke not at Treasons Rebellions inuasions if they haue hope so to effect it Relation of Religion in the West pag. 156 159. 2 Consider whether all other thogh neuer so profane or wicked Iewes Stewes Turkes Infidels Heretickes or Atheists open enemies of Christian Religion be not suffered more quietly to liue in Italy Rome and vnder the popes nose then Protestants whose onely great crime is They are against the popes vsurpations and corruptions Molius defence pag. 464. 3 Consider if all sinnes against God and his Word be not more slightly punished then offences against the Popes greatnesse In cases of Murder Treason Incest Blasphemy c. ordinary Bishops may bind and loose but the cases of hindring men from going to Rome for pardons of intrusion into any benefice or office Ecclesiasticail of purloyning any Church goods or offending the Sea-Apostolicke c. those are reserued to the pope onely And the penitentiary taxe for falsifying the letters Apostolicall is
partiality and you shall finde they proue no more then the excellency of honourable estimation the primacy of order and the principality of grace and are farre short of prouing the Supremacy of power ouer the whole Christian world now claimed and practised by the Bishop of Rome B. Carlton iurisdiction pag. 55 56. Wee may also iustly alleadge that the honours and titles that other Bishops gaue to the Bishops of Rome for their great vertue in former times the Romists of these latter times vniustly draw to proue the iurisdiction of that Sea because they may finde the same or greater giuen to other worthy Bishops as to Saint Ambrose to whom p Basil epist 55. Saint Basil writing saith He holdeth the sterne of that great and famous shippe the Church of God and that God hath placed him in the primacy and chiefe seate of the Apostles So q Sidon lib. 6. ep 1 4. Sidonius Apollinaris Bishop of Arvern calleth Lupus a French Bishop Pope Lupus and his Sea Apostolike And writing to Fontellus another French Bishop r Lib. 7. ep 4. Quod Apostolatus vestri patrocinium copiosissimumconferre vos comperi saith he greatly reioyced that he found he did aboundantly defend his Apostleship And againe Å¿ Lib. 6. ep 7. Ego quoque ad Apostolatus tui noticiam accedo I come to the knowledge of your Apostleship t Chrysost de laudibus Paul hom 8. in Gal. 2. Erat Paulus Princeps Apostolorum honore par Petro ne quid dicam amplius Saint Chrysostom called Saint Paul Prince of the Apostles u Ruffin histor lib. 2. cap. 1. Iacobus Apostolorum princeps Ruffinus gaue Saint Iames the same title x Greg in 1 Reg. lib. 4. cap 4. Paulus ad Christum conuersus caput effectus est nationum qui obtinuit Ecclesiae totius principatum See D. Field Church booke 5. chap. 41. Saint Gregory gaue Saint Paul the title of Head of the Nations and that hee obtained the gouernment of the whole Church What titles doe the Fathers giue vnto Saint Peter beyond these If these doe not proue any generall Iurisdiction in others how doe they proue it in Saint Peter §. 12. But what need we stand vpon Titles which the ancient Fathers gaue to Saint Peter or the Pope when the whole course of their actions were against the Supremacy now challenged Remember what I haue said a See before booke 1. chap. 1 §. 2. before of the Fathers misliking and disswading the Popes assumed authority in the smallest matters as Polycarpus disswading Anicetus Polycrates and the Bishops of the East and Irenaeus with his French Bishops in the West disswading Victor from new vnusuall vniustifiable courses ibid. §. 3. Other Fathers afterwards plainely resisting and reiecting the Popes iudgement and authority as the holy Martyr Cyprian with many whole Councels of the African Bishops Saint Basil the Great and the whole Greeke Church I shewed you also how three Popes in succession Zozimus Boniface and Celestine aboue 400. yeeres after Christ claymed their superiority and priuiledges not by the Scriptures but by a Canon of the Councell of Nice which Canon the holy learned Bishops in the Councell of Carthage reiected finding no such thing in any of the Copies of the Councell of Nice which their Church kept or the Church of Alexandria or the Church of Constantinople So that finally condemning that Canon to be countefet and the claymed authority of the Church of Rome to bee new and vnlawfull they made Decrees against the Popes clayme conformable to their owne Decrees and Customes of former times b Ibid. sect 4. I shewed you further by the Contention betwixt Iohn Bishop of Constantinople and Gregory the Great Bishop of Rome that your owne Gregory condemned the titles and supremacy which Iohn then laboured for and which your Popes now take vnto them he I say condemned them for Antichristian and said none of his ancestors did euer claym them c Ibid. sect 5. I shewed you also how the Bishops of France Germany and Brittany with many Councels one at Constantinople another at Frankfurt another at Paris with whom also ioyned Charles the Great and Ludouicus Pius beside many learned men in their bookes at that time opposed the Pope and his Councels and his authority in imposing the worship of Images vpon the Church Of these and of the succeeding times I haue spoken d See ibid. sect 9. 10. c. in mine opinion sufficient to satisfie any moderate man and vpon occasion I haue much more to say But reade aduisedly at your leysure B. Iewel B. Morton D. Field and our other learned Protestants or our most iudicious King Iames his bookes or reade onely B. Bilsons booke e B. Bilson The true difference between Christian subiectioÌ„ vnchristian rebellion specially the first part p. 94. seq in 8. who writes fully enough and punctually of these matters and if you bee not prejudicate and obstinate beyond all reason you will be satisfied Onely I will adde here for the present one thing of the African Church about Saint Cyprians time and after The Contention betwixt the Bishops of Africa and the Bishop of Rome was so great that on the one side as Cassander f Cassander consultation arâ—ic 7. pag 54. obserueth Pope Steuen repelled Saint Cyprian à communione suâ from Communion with him See â—efoâ—â— châ—p 2â—â—â— admitted not to his speach the Bishops of Africa comming from Saint Cyprian as Legats yea and foâ—bade all his fraternity to receiue them into their houses denying them not only peace coÌ„munion but also tectum hospitium house-room lodging calling Cyprian Pseudo hristum dolosum operariâ—m a false Christ and deceitfull worker And on the other side Saint Cyprian and the Africans stood out thinking the Pope and the Italians in the wrong neither sued they neither cared they for the Communion of the Pope and the Church of Rome Doctor Harding saith g Hardings answer to Iewels challenge pag. 290. The whole Church of Africa withdrew it selfe from the Church of Rome by reason of this difference of Appeales and so continued in Schisme an hundred yeeres and in that time were brought into miserable captiuity by the Vandales Harding might remember that Rome it selfe about the same season in the space of 140. yeeres was brought to miserable calamities being sixe times taken by the wilde and barbarous enemies h B. Iewel ib. after which time of 100. yeeres Eulabius B. of Carthage condemning his predecessors disobedience and seeking reconciliation to the Pope did by publike instrument or writing submit and reioyne the African Church to the Roman And Boniface the Pope writes thereof to the Bishop of Alexandria exciting him to reioyce and giue thankes to God for this reconciliation saying that Aurelius Bishop of Carthage and his fellowes whereof Saint Augustine was one being set on by the Diuell had