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A01041 A defence of the lavvful calling of the ministers of reformed churches, against the cavillations of Romanists Whereto is subioined, an epistle to a recusant, for clearing and maintaining some points of the former treatise of defence, challenged by a Roman Elymas Bar-Iesus-it. With a short discovery of the adversarie his dottage in his impertinent and rediculously deceitfull demands. By Patrik Forbes, of Coirse. Forbes, Patrick, 1564-1635. 1614 (1614) STC 11146; ESTC S114324 93,515 180

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the true church within the visible church which we have to trie and how we shall rightlie discerne the bryde from the harlot It is in a commō pretence and audaciouslie acclaimed title of the church and prophetical authoritie to discerne wisely the true church from the Sinagogue of Satan calling thēselves Iewes and the voice of the true shepheard frō the Dragon his mouth even in the temple of God We wil acquiesce in the iudgment of the church but we must first know that it is she and not a masket harlot vnder that name Yea and even then not acquiesce simplie because it is her voice but because by the word and spirit we perceave her to speak the words of the brydgrom and that therfore she is the bryde and true mother of vs all O but thus say they you stil subiect the spirit of the church to everie privat spirit make lay men iudges over Pastours to whom Christ hath committed the governemēt of his house If I aske them what they do meane by this their distinction of a publike and privat spirit what can they answer ar their mindes so stil plunged in the pudle of their predicamēts as they imagin the spirit of Christ to be a Species divided in individua dare they say that there be divers spirites or that the Church hath any otherwayes the spirit but because al the mēbers of her body are indued with one and the same spirit each according to the measure of the donation of Christ there is but one spirit albeit divers administrations and operations Now if every true member of the church hath one and the same spirit for what vse have they it Or dare any be so blasphemous as to imagine that the spirit of God cā be in any without some spiritual operations have not the children of God the spirit that thereby they may both discerne the things of God and be capable of them for the naturall man can not but the spiritual man discerneth al things is iudged of none and as the spirit of mā knoweth iudgeth the things of men so doth the spirit of God the things of God Our adversaries here delude the simple with a deceitfull aequivocation from that ordinarie prerogative of governement and iudgement given to Pastours concluding falslie of all spirituall sense and gust given to all and everie Christians for iudging and discerning heavenlie things by the spirit of God in them And because the gift of dispensation and ordinarie governement is peculiarlie given to Church-men or Pastours vnder an aequivocation they wil spoile all and everie privat Christian of al spiritual sense and discerning facultie If a stewart of an house to whom the dispensation is cōmitted of distributing food to the familie did offer to a child or servant of the house a stone in stead of bread or a serpent for a fishe and if the child or servant did therefore reiect them had he place by reason of the dispensation committed to him to quarrell either the child or servant for vsurping his office The horse or oxe which neither have the skill nor place given them by nature to provide or dispense to themselves their foode yet by naturall sense have allotted to them this facultie to discerne haye from thornes and provander from gravel Any common sensible man which hath not the art either to teach himselfe or others musike yet naturallie perceaved a ia●●e therein and sturreth at it and hath his Maister of art place herevpon to expostulat that hee taketh too much on him In divine matters God alone properlie is Iudge and the Church is index that is declarer non index not iudge of his will or word No more then heraults of armes are iudges or discerners but intimaters of the Prince his pleasure and yet in a peculiar manner and by a speciall power which no common subiect may or dare vsurpe who yet all of them have place to crave examine their warrant that ordinarie and peculiar power of dispensation governement and iudgement according to the warrant of God his word and will thereby proper to publike office-bearers and spiritual heraulds is one thing and the spiritual gust or facultie given to all Christians whereby to try discerne whither it be food or poyson a stone or bread a fishe or a serpent that is dispensed vnto them whither it be the voice of the sheepheard which they heare or the voice of a stranger it is another thing we admit not everie subiect to vsurpe the place of herauld nor every sheep to vsurpe the office or power of a sheepheard But by the great sheepheard his own testimonie we know that whosoever are his sheepe they will discerne betwixt voices and so learne to avoide the thiefe follow the true sheephearde These two our adversaries either maliciouslie or ignorantlie and sophisticallie cōfound vnder pretence of that which is the Pastours part by aequivocation pulling from the sheep all spirituall sense so making them in stead of lightened living mēbers of Christ dead sensles thus to miscarie them whither they list To Pastors we yeeld alwayes both the place honor of dispēsing food to the familie yea that so far forth as we absolve not any Christian from the necessitie of submitting himselfe to God his ordinance therein But as Christ hath given his spirit to al his sheep whereby they live spiritually and hath left his word to be the only food of his house for fostering nourishing that life so we affirme that al true sheep even who hath neither the skill nor the power to be their owne carvers have yet by his spirit in them that vnction which teacheth all things a spiritual discerning facultie to know what is propined them so as even the weakest in that facultie yet having in any measure the true gust albeit in infirmitie he wil be brought to muse doubt ye somtime to mistake that for food which is not yet as a mā seeking after some precious Iewell though many things in apparance like it present them selves to him and even detain his mind as doubting but som of thē may be his darling yet this is ever stil without satisfaction of heart so as he cannot rest nor acquiesce but still his mind giveth him that he is deceaved and so hee still searceth and sendeth after something which he hath not as yet gottē and if he could yet but once see he would sone know Vpon which having fallen then as two wel accorded lutes the one being stricken the other also soundeth so at the first sight his heart leapeth and is filled with ioye his mynd with cleare light and his soule with solide peace And then he disdainfully casteth from him these counterfaits which he never heartelie embraced Is it not a strange impudencie in these men that in so manifold warnings given vs by our Lord to trye well what wee embrace or hold and in so faire a facultie affoorded vs by
Satans throne in it and the vndoubted subversion of their execrable Ilium they cry out a great cry and a bitter That if thus men once depart from the iudgement of the Church what certain warrant can they ever finde to stay on or What guyde can they be sure to follow for finding out of truth So still they cease not to dallie and shameleslie in one sort Wee would not have men to depart from the iudgement of the Church which is the piller and stable seate of truth and without which is neither veritie nor lyfe but howe much we are necessarilie to cleave thereto so much the more carefullie by the right rule of examination to trye and discerne betwixt the Church and the pretending harlot and to this end the Lord hath given vs his word his spirit and in all ages hath recommended them to his owne children as vndoubted guydes in all doubtfull cases so vnder the lawe men are ever exhorted to the lawe the Testimonie David and the Prophets direct al men alwayes thereto they have the Lawe and the Prophets saith Abraham in parables And our Lord for cleare testimonie of himselfe biddeth the Iewes search the scriptures Peter from an other spirit then have our adversaries calleth the word of the Prophets a sure and certaine word and exhorteth to attend thereto And Paul even vpon this that the Church is the house of God the piller and stable seat of trueth and that godlines is a great mysterie groundeth both a reason why hee did write to Timothie and an earnest exhortation to take heed to the reading of the scripturs for that many diverting therefrō and giving themselves to spirits of error and fables should fall from the truth and teach doctrines of Devils We read many warning not to be miscaried with common errors or the authoritie of men yea as I have before touched divers times both Pastors and people in common are taxed for falling away from the word We are exhorted carefullie to proove and try what word men doe offer vnto vs but never in all scripture have we so much as one mine of secure relying vpon the authoritie of ordinarie Pastors without due examination and the iudgement of al sound antiquitie accordeth hereto One of the Fathers saith thus Qui vuls cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia non cognoscat nisi tautumm●d● per scripturas and sone after Christiani ergo volentes firmitatem accipere doctrina verae ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad Scripturas ali●qui si ad alia respexerint scandaliz abuntur peribunt non intelligentes qu● sit vera ecclesia per hoc incident in abhominationem desolationis qu● stat in sanctis ecclesi● locis the place is remarkeable in English thus who wil know which is the true church let him not seeke to know it but only by the scriptures c. Christians then willing to receave the stable assurance of true doctrine let them runne to nothing but to the scriptures otherwayes if they look to ought else they shall stumble and perish not vnderstanding which is the true Church and shall fall hereby in the abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the church This same is yet more plainly shewed in these wordes quum videritis c. that is when ye shall see vngodly heresie which is the armie of Antichrist standing in the holy places of the Church then let them who are in Iudea flee to the mountaines that is they who are of christianitie addresse themselves to the scriptures because when once that heresie hath obtained place in these Churches there can bee no tryall of true christianitie neither any other refuge for christians willing to know the veritie of the faith but the divine and holy Scriptures And the same Chrisostome in the same place Antea multis modis c. before many wayes was shewed which was the Church of Christ but nowe no maner of way but by the Scriptures Thus is cleare not only that the scripture is the sole rule of tryall but that the necessarie reason why only to have recourse thereto is Antichrist his obtaining so farre within the Church as to escape the abhomination of desolation standing therein also wee must runne and runne only to the Scriptures Non enim per alium saieth Ireneus dispositionem salutis n●strae cognovimus quam per eos per quos Evangelium pervenit ad n●● quod quidem tunc praecomaverunt postea ver● per Dei vol●●tatem in scripturis nobis tradiderunt fundamentum columnam fidei nostr● futurum that is for by none other have wee knowne the disposition of our salvation but by these by whom the Gospell hath come vnto vs which then they preached and thereafter by the will of God delivered to vs in the Scriptures to remain in all tymes to come the foundation and piller of our faith The same father in another place speaketh thus Plantatus est enim Ecclesiae Paradisus i● hoc mundo ab omni ergo ligno P●radisi manducabis id est ab omni scriptura dominica c. that is for the Paradise of the Church is planted in this world thou shall eat therefore of every tree of Paradise that is of all the Lord his Scripture And as Ierome sayeth both pleasantly and pertinently When ever the Church looketh to any other warrant egreditur de finibus suis she passeth out of her owne bounds let any man in whom is left any spunk of spirituall sense conferre these sayings of the Fathers with the dealing and doctrine of Rome now labouring ever to divert men from this Paradise of the Scriptures where only is the fruit of lyfe to a barren wildernes without water and Cisternes of their owne digging and thus making millions to fall in that abhomination of desolation which standeth in the holy places of the Church but their soares are seene they shal prevaile no longer 22. They exclame here against vs that thus we pervert all order in God his house making every privat Christian iudge over Pastours and subduing the spirit of the Church to every privat spirit And O how they both please themselves and play themselves in amplifying the absurditie as they think of this point But to calme a little their chear heerein First I aske them is it not a common direction for all Christians to trye spirits and not to believe every spirit Are we not cōmanded to proove al things to hold that which is good Are we not often carefully exhorted to beware of false Prophets While they cannot or dare not though they would gainsay so cleare Scripture they runne to this that the only sure trial is to acquiesce in the iudgement of the Church But shameles men is not this all one thing as if they said the best triall were to ●se no triall at all And what doe they hereby but still assume the question It is
shall goe out no more and shal at length beare away the name of the true Church written on her evidently with her Lord his finger even of the true and new Ierusalem from heaven in despyte of all this slight of Sathan Wheras all counterfaits calling themselves Iewes and are not shall either come and worshippe at her feete or be cast out of God his house lose the name which they doe falslie vsurp In one word though al the Inchanters of Egypt strengthened with all both the craft and power of darknes should make apishlie to imitat Mos●s yet Aaron his Rod shall alwayes devour the Rods of all inchanters Even truth shall both discover and cōsume errour in the end And this vertue in the truth now preached all who with single eyes looke on things may evidently perceave and so much the more as in litle outward strength walking in meeknes and patience and oppugned with all wordlie power and great pryde and bitternes yet in despyte of all opposition ●t prevaileth Glorified be the Lord our strength 27. All whatsoever our adversaries lay against vs wherby they syle the eyes and beguyle the mindes of the simple being lookt on with iudgement is founde but meere Sophistrie and cavillation so as they have to bring more solide stuffe if they would spoile our Pastours of all lawful calling and vs of any true church 28. We plead ordinarie vocation for our Church in common and this because so it is and not for that of absolut necessitie it behooved to be so Neither speak I thus as partiallie caried to maintaine the credit of some particular men whose defect herein if it were any could never preiudge our Churches For mine owne part as in all sobernes and cleannes of heart by the gift of GOD I have beene carefull to know the truth so was I never much curious to inquire of the particular state of our first mens callings Which whether it were ordinarie or extraordinarie and that whollie or partlie in some men or in all as it matereth litle o●●othing in so great extraordinarie a worke wrought by their ministerie as is the discovery and conviction of Antichrist sitting masked in the Temple so is the disputation thereabout but idle and childish For if ever any such evill and confusion did befall the church as that for reformation therof any extraordinary dealing was requisit The vsurpation of Antichrist most of all other as I doubt not but God accordingly shewed in some either persons workers or works of persons or both I approve our men who sustain our ordinarie vocation in common but who plead so for it as a point absolutly requisit for approoving our cause and in such a case of the church doe place al defence therein in my iudgement they doe wronglie limit the holy one of Israel against both the priviledge of his power and his vsuall manner of dealing in such cases And who defend our first mens callings to have bene partlie ordinarie partlie extraordinarie whither that some extraordinary persons were raised by GOD or that ordinary persons were by him stirred to extraordinarie motions and actions I think for me they have fallen vpon the right defence and which is both most agreeable to GOD his honour and manner of working and also most strong and honorable for our church and cause 29. And these now forsooth are the invincible arguments in confidence whereof they are bold to offer that if wee can bee able to maintain the lawfulnes of our callings and that so wee have any true Church they will without any more doubt or disput about other points in controversie joyne in communion with vs. But certainlie if truth bee with vs and they consequentlie bee heretiks they jangle with vs impertinentlie of outward calling the having whereof as it will never justifie errour so neither will the defect thereof bee ever a relevant exception against truth clearlie convincing it For an evill tree cannot bring foorth good fruit nor a good tree bring foorth evill fruit And whosoever is not against vs is on our part And if our doctrine may be prooved false why make they such adoe about calling or why thus flee they the tryall of the cause and goe not the neerest and plainest way to justifie themselves and to bereave vs of all defence An evill conscience maketh men to seeke subterfuges And as they bewray it evidentlie in this their quarrelling of our vocation so when in course they are put to their defences they manifest themselves yet more 30. When by cleare scripture we proove their Pope to bee Antichrist to free him of that blot albeit they be otherwayes extreemelie impudent and malicious in forging false criminations and calumnious slaunders yet with all the ingyne of hell finding none other vpon whom to lay over the staine of that odious title they are faine to refuse that hee is yet come and that when hee commeth hee shall openlie overthrow all true worshippe and obtaine rule over the whole earth Yea some of them are so straited by evident truth that with pale faces and trembling lippes they are forced to confesse that probablie hee may expell the Pope from Rome and Domine there And shall so strangelie destroy all truth and true Professoures as forsooth Enoch and Elias must returne I know not whence to fight with him and to bee killed of him Now in this case I pray you where shal be all the long boasted of prerogative of Rome and of Peter his chaire whereto against vs they infalliblie doe chain all truth Where shal be these goodlie and true promises which they wronglie wrest and falslie vsurpe against vs Where shall then bee the notes of vniversalitie in their sense multitude visibilitie personall succession and externall maiestie and Pompe If these bee the certaine and infallible notes of the true Church how faile they at any tyme Or if as they themselves confesse in Antichrist his vsurpation the case shal be such why see they not that vainlie and absurdlie for eximing their Pope to bee that Antichrist they obiect to vs as impossibilities and horrible blasphemies these same yea much smaller things then they themselves grant that in Antichrist his vsurpation the Church must suffer If when Antichrist commeth multitude visibilitie and vniversalitie shall bee with him if all personall succession of Pastours shall so farre faile as that for pleading the truth Enoch and Elias must come from another world against him if the church then shall not only in truth and true professors but even in all publict ensigne of profession bee invisible if he shal possiblie sit in Rome and peaceablie brook all why in the disput about Antichrist are multitude vniversalitie personall succession and visibilitie still laid against vs Why is ruinous Rome as an infallible rock opposed for al defence vnto vs and why see they not that by their owne confession they must otherwayes vindicat their Pope from that blot that