the late Wars against the King whenas that very Book quoted by him entituled The West answering to the North printed 1657. doth in the whole Tenour of it severely reprehend those then in Power to wit Oliver and his Ministers for their Oppressions Cruelties and Arbitrary Tyrannical Proceedings which they pretended to condemnin those before them though there might be some Words too harsh in the said Book as reflecting backward but with an Intent to judge them then in Power yet it is to be considered as chiefly writ by two Officers or Captains of the old Army being Common Wealths Men as I understand who had not as then wholy got over the Warring Spirit however did sympathize with our Poor Innocent Friends when they beheld their deep Sufferings as in some Degree sharing with them though its probable some Remainder of their former Sharpness of Spirit was left wherein they had been animated by such Zealous Chaplains as Jeremy yet those Books quoted by him were extant long before the King's Pardon which he pretends so greatly to respect but we have not gone about to serve him and his Brethren thus as to rake up all the Baptists Books that concerned the former War and Matters of State before the Kings coming in or Act of Indemnity However this we find Cause to believe that whatever Respect J. Ives his Brethren may pretend either to the Kings Gracious Pardon or the Law of Charity they would shew little Mercy if they had Power to execute their Enmity as well as to render us obnoxious to the Government such as Jer. Ives and his Brother T. Hicks would in all Probability be as busie Agents for our Ruine as they are now to endeavour it by such an Indictment as this that is made up of their present Accusations against us viz. That you justifie the late Wars against the King that you are No Christians nor worthy of so venerable a Name that your Doctrines are Destructive both to Scripture and Christian Religion that your Confessions are gross Equivocations that your Opinions do make void all Rules of Christian Faith and Practice that your Friends of the Ministry are Impostors false Prophets and Men of Lying Spirits Thus far J. Ives And then T. Hicks in his Dialogues against the Quakers viz. That you are Destructive to all Human Society Inconsistent with Government that you are as vile Impostors as ever were that your Religion is a meer Cheat calculated to the Service of the Devil and your own Lusts horrid Blasphemies that your chief Motive and Inducement to suffer is the Satisfaction of your Wills and Lusts or the promoting of your Carnal Interests that you are the Spawn of the wicked Brood the Ranters and have likt up their Vomit Romish Emissaries Hereticks Mad Men Infatuated such as esteem the Holy Scriptures of no more Auâ—hority then Esop ' s Fables and the Blood of Christ no more then an Unholy Thing or the Blood of a Common Thief yea worse that you reprobate the Holy Scriptures and the Person of Christ that you deny any future distinct Beings Rewards or Eternal Advantages to Men after Death that your owning Christ and the Christ you own is a meer Mystical Romance and that your Meetings are to Inveigle and Trapan People As also he recriminates the Quakers in General with the Enormities of some Particulars These with many more such like most bitter false and absurd Invectives by Tho. Hicks the Baptist-Agent O Persecuting Baptists But God be thanked that these Mens Horns are shortned for if they were not it is not unlikely but they would push and persecute asc ruelly as their Invectives are Inveterate and tend thereto or as their New-England Brethren whose Persecuting Spirits would not be satisfied without Innocent Blood Again Jer. Ive goes about to impeach us with an Inconsistency and to exhibit a pregnant Proof by Retortion of our being No Christians In that the Quakers refuse the Oath of Allegiance because they are against all Swearing as being Inconsistent with Christianity or living in the Life and Power of Christ or under his Government and yet reckons that some among us swear and for Instance he puts this Question What think you of William Mead who with Others took an Oath And what think you of Gerrard Roberts who together with John Osgood who with others took their Oathes as appears by their Answer to a Bill in Chancery To all which I reply from what I think 1. I tell this Inquisitor that I think they are all honest Men fearing God and Men conscientious towards him according to their Principle and that they would not injure or defraud or wrong any in their Properties or Rights and for what they do they dare appear before and answer the great God in the great Day of Judgment However if they were Conscious they are resolved they would not make this Inquisitor their Confessor for they neither expect Mercy nor Absolution from him 2. I also think and William Mead John Osgood Gerrard Roberts are satisfied that they are able to give an honest Account of their Conscientious Tenderness in this Case and that according to a good Conscience if in Love desired or out of an honest Intention or for a good End without any Design of Injury towards them or their Profession But they have no Cause to think that Ier. Ives doth enquire or accuse them to the World for any good End or out of any Friendship to them or Love to their Souls but rather from a Design of Mischief or Injury as the Tenour of his Discourse against them imports Therefore they are resolved rather to suffer his Revilings and endure his Clamours then gratifie a mischievous Spirit by giving him Account of their Affairs or Proceedings for their Properties Rights which only they seek for and not to injure their Neighbours or any Man else in their Names Persons or Estates 3. That if either Ieremy or any Baptists or others for him have made Search in Chancery or do enquire of any Officers belonging thereto whether any of the Quakers have given in their Answer upon Oath I think that he and such his Enquirers are Busibodies in other mens Matters while 't is not their own Concernments And whilst their Design and End therein is for Evil against our Friends it might be supected by those Officers in trust concerned as not to be for Good towards them or us in their Inquiry and that therefore such busie Inquisitors might justly have met with a Repulse and been rejected and not answer'd in their captious Attempts 4. To his falsly accusing the Quakers with daily impleading People at Law I say That though some of them have Occasion sometimes to make use of the Law they are necessitated thereto to maintain their just Rights Properties from such Unconscionable Men as would otherwise make a Prey upon them to Ruin them and theirs and not to injure others or defraud any of their Rights in
Inspiration or Revelation from Heaven as our Friends profess for that 's inconsistent with his Religion Therefore his own presumptuous Will is his Rule and Law for his Challenge both as to the Matter and Manner of it as having no footing either in the Holy Scriptures or Power of God Whereas from his Daring us to appoint Time and Place to prove the Quakers No Christians it was told him that then it seems they are not yet proved No Christians upon which he demands Whether a Truth may not be oftner prov'd then once especially where some stop their Ears as the Deaf Adder Hereupon I ask him if he had before proved us No Christians or really judged he did so Was it proper for him to dare and beg for another Meeting meerly to prove us No Christians which is not again to prove us none or did he expect to open our Ears by going over his Matter again But if he reckoned us such Deaf Adders that would not hear him before his Business had been rather to let the World know how rarely he had proved his Charge against us and not to trouble the World or alarm City and Country with his Cracking and Boasting what he would do in his daring Vaunts which favour of meer Pride Vanity and Impudence and not of any Seriousness or Good-will towards us nor as a man that would really seek our Conversion to Christianity supposing us none for did ever the Apostles or Ministers of Christ thus dare vilifie reproach or insult over the poor Ethnicks or moral Heathen as we are counted in the sight of their Enemies or open View of the World in order to their Conversion as Jer. Ives has dealt by the despised Quakers As touching the Question T. R. put to him Whether this be that Jeremy that was cast into New-gate upon a Religious Account and for his Testimony against Swearing in the year 1660. To this he answereth I am not that Jeremy that was committed to New-gate for a Religious Refusing the Oath of Allegiance c. On which I ask if it was not for some kind of refusing the Oath and whether if a Conscientious Refusing it was not Religious But that Jeremy got out of Prison by Swearing this he denyeth not for he saith I am that Jeremy that took the Oath of Allegiance and writ a Book to prove that some Oathes were Lawful though all were not Well I 'le not press him whether he did not once reckon the Oath of Allegiance Unlawful when he was committed to New-gate but tell him that methinks he doth a little like a Temporizer colour over and construe the Business of his Letter to his Brother Pittman and Brother Sewel 1. First in saying I am not that Jeremy that ever writ against the Oath of Allegiance either privately or publickly 2. In saying I am that Jeremy that did in a Letter blame a Friend for saying He had rather have given Fifty Pound then have took the Oath of Allegiance and yet swore he took it Freely and Willingly c. By which Jeremy thou seemest only to strike at thy Brother's Hesitation Scruple and Dissimulation about the taking the Oath and not at the meer taking it or Matter of Fact But methinks thy severe Letter to them sounds otherwise as that it was for taking the Oath as well as their Scruple or Dissatisfaction in doing it else what mean these Passages in thy Letter viz. I do well to be angry with you That you would be as easily perswaded to part with as unwilling to suffer for your spiritual Liberties How unlike the Christians in former Times are you whose Zeal was so hot for God that their Eyes prevented the Morning that thereby they might prevent the Rage of the Adversary I alwayes did conclude that those that would quit the Cause of Righteousness would quit the Wayes of Holiness as yesterday's sad Experience hath taught to the perpetual Joy of your Adversaries and the sadning the Hearts and adding Afflictions to the Bonds of the Prisoners of he Lord. Thus far Jeremy See here was it only the Scruple of these Men in taking the Oath that is opposed or reproved and not their taking it Or was it the Regret they had upon them in the taking it that would be such a perpetual Joy to the Adversaries or rather the Matter of Fact as it appeared to them namely the taking the Oath and therein acting contrary to the Testimony of others that suffered to the sadning their Hearts and adding to their Afflictions Besides saith Jeremy My Bonds are my Crown but your Cowardly Spirit is my great Cross But it seems he kept this Crown but a little while if he in a few Dayes after got himself out of Prison by Swearing And wherein did their Cowardly Spirit appear but in their Swearing contrary tâ— their Consciences as Jeremy in his chiding Letter saith Now God is proving to see if you will obey him or no and did not yesterday's Work witness that you are willing to prefer the Fear of a Man that must dye before the Fear of the great God and the Fear of them that can kill the Body before the Fear of the Lord that can cast both Body and Soul into Hell I have no more to say but this that your Cowardly Temporizing and Complying with the PRECEPTS OF MEN makes me jealous that your Fear towards the Lord is taught by the Precepts of Men. Thus far Jeremy again Now the Question is did J. I. in all these Words bear upon their Hesuaâ—â—on or Scruple in taking the Oath or only reprove their Swearing they took it freely when they could not really do it Methinks if this had been the Thing and that Jeremy had really allowed of the Matter of Fact it self as the taking the Oath he should have writ in another Strain then he did unto his Brethren for taking it he should not have charged them for quitting the Cause of Righteousness to the Perpetual Joy of the Adversaries nor with adding Afflictions to the Bonds of the Lord's Prisoners nor with yesterday's Work witnessing their Willingness to prefer the Fear of a Man that must dye nor of Cowardly Temporizing and Complying with the PRECEPTS of Men for surely here is the Matter of Fact concerned but if he had approved of the Oath it self and only disapproved of their Weakness in scrupling and taking it in an unsatisfied Conscience or doubtful Mind he should then have endeavoured to have removed their Scruples and to have pacified their weak Consciences with urging the Lawfulness of what they did by demonstrating it to them but the Thing appears otherwise and that Jeremy did fall under the Judgment that he gave against his Brethren as namely that of Cowardly Temporizing and Complying with the Precepts of Men as may be suspected from his saying What if I had been once against the Oath afterward had took it must this needs make me an Impostor Surely this doth not clear him nor render
him a Stable Christian. His implying or insinuating Tho. Rudyard guilty of Forgery for putting Mens Names to own the Matter in a Book without their Consent or Privacy p. 7. 11. I suppose Tho. Rudyard hath answered for himself to this Matter elsewhere viz. to a Paper of T. Hicks that charged him with the same Fact And for my Part I do not understand that he his chargeable with Forgery herein though he had not their Consent or Privacy seeing their Names were sent up Inhabitants then present with divers others at the Examination of the Anabaptists Lying Wonder in Lincolnshire that Richard Anderson untruly insinuated to be a Quaker whose Child was falsly alledged to be cured of a Leprosie by Means of the Baptists Prayers and the Certificate being sent up to him with the Names of those then present and Ear-Witnesses of that Account and others that subscribed their Hands as further Witnesses thereto whether they consented to the publishing of their Names to the Man's Account or not was not material so long as they knew the Thing was true what Reason had T. R. or any others to think that they would scruple their Names being printed as Persons present at such Examination or Account when they were present Ear-Witnesses and then Assenters to the Credit thereof all this doth not render them No Witnesses much less T. R. a Forgâ—r for giving the World a true Account of the Matter as it was sent up to him and not contrived by him by publishing amongst other Testimonies that Certificate that detected the Baptists Forgery from the Hands of several Witnesses who really subscribed thereto who withall certified and sent the Names of those Inhabitants present The Baptists Boasts about the said Lying Wonder are sufficiently detected in our Friends Answers thereto But Jeremy thinks he payes us off in several Passages we are now coming to as in asking Whether it be not very Uncharitable for W. P. to Violate the Laws of God and the Laws of the King in remembring any thing against those whom the King had graciously pardoned else that he would not have told Mr. Faldo in his Rejoynder pag. 406. of the Nonconformists preaching up Blood and Treason and Garments rol'd in the Blood of Kings c I must tell Jeremy That he hath herein dealt unfairly by W. P. and aggravated his Words by adding BLOOD and TREASON Whenas his Words are They are true Gospel-Ministers and their Feet truly Beautiful whose Gospel is Peace on Earth and Good-will towards Men and not Garments rol'd in the Blood of Kings and Princes Rulers and People No Worldly Armies Battels Spoils Sequestrations c. Though its true that John Faldo and his Brethren are retorted upon by W. P. for their Preaching up the former War but this was not to violate the King's Favour in pardoning them but to give them a Check for their being so busie against us in a Persecuting Spirit and particularly for Iohn Faldo's Abuse of William Penn and medling with his deceased Father about which I refer the Reader to W. P's own Answer to speak for himself in his Rejoynder to Iohn Faldo pag 405 406. And so W. P's Design might be rather to Humble them and to reclaim them from that old bitter Spirit wherein they were formerly Incendiaries and yet bring forth their Invectives tending to stir up Persecution against the People of the Lord And have not both the Holy Prophets and Christ also reminded such a persecuting Generation both of their own and their Fathers former Iniquities seeing them continuing therein in the same Spirit of Envy But I doubt not but W. P. desires their Repentance that they may be converted from their Persecuting Spirit that they may receive Pardon from God as well as from the King But Ieremy thou that wouldst seem so Zealous against Uncharitableness and Violating the Laws of God and the King hast thou dealt charitably by E. Burroughs in saying He dâ—th justifie the late Wars against the King and not only so but thou art pleased to tell the World twice or thrice over that we justifie the late Wars against the King How now Ieremy Is this thy Charity and Respect to the Laws of God and the King Hast thou not herein shewn a persecuting Spirit to render us obnoxious And why so Because E. B. in severely Warning the late Powers of their Down-fall did by way of Reproof tell Oliver what God had done for him even in the same Letter to him wherein he plainly also telleth him of the Great Oppressions which the People of God suffered under him both in their Persons and Estates Saying also to Oliver If I perish I must speak the Truth most of the Prisons this day in all thy Iurisdictions do testifie the Unjust Judgments and Great Oppressions and Cruelties yea and further conditionally threatens Oliver That God would confound and him see E. B's Works from pag. 551. to pag. 583. how plainly and faithfully he did warn Oliver and those men then in Power of their Overthrow To be sure E. B. was no Temporizer neither have we forborn in dealing plainly with those in Power when we have had Cause as the Lord hath moved and authorized us And further to clear E. B. and the Reprinter or Publisher of his Books as to their Freeness from being either a Factions Party or Seditious to the Government that now is and to manifest what a True Prophet he was and that never man dealt more plainly against the former Power and Government particularly in his Message to the then Rulers of England fol. 594. viz. If you of the Army be alwayes Treacherous and Disobedient towards the Lord and abuse your Power and trifle away your Hour about Places of Honour and such Self-seeking Matters and the Cause of God be neglected by you and his People continued Oppressed Sufferers under you as they have long been even then shall you be cast aside with shameful Disgrace and the Heavy Hand of the Lord shall be upon you in Judgment and you shall be smitten more then any before you your Estates shall not be spared from the Spoiler nor your Souls from the Pit nor your Persons from the Violence of Men no nor your Neeks from the Ax for if you be Unfaithful and continually Treacherous to the Cause of God then shall you be left to the Will of your Enemies and they shall charge Treachery and Treason upon you c. But our Opposer who under the Pretence of Christianity and Charitableness shews himself void of both tells us of a Quakers Book entituled The West answering to the North hath much to this Purpose which saith he I am not willing to write out because I am not willing to expose you I cannot but observe the Man's Dissimulation and base Insinuation in this implicite Kind of accusing us hereby to render us more suspicious and obnoxious then if he had dealt plainly especially whilst he accuseth us over and over with justifying
send forth with extraordinary Messages to particular Places and Peoples in which God only by his Spirit is their great Rule and Guide 2. And so God is in discovering to Man his inward Estate and Condition even the Thoughts and Inclinations of his Heart with all his Particular Actions But sayes Jer. Ives They pretend that the Spirit is the Rule when they give no more Evidence of it then Mahomet or Muggleton But this is manifest Reproach and Falshood We give as much Evidence both in Doctrine and Conversation as is necessary to evince our Christianity And as Jeremy cannot disprove nor doth he appear to be a Man of that Spiritual Mind and Judgment as to know what Evidence we have given or what Evidence we can give his Comparison is gross and impious and Neither It nor his bare Charge nor yet his calling upon us to produce an Evidence of the Spirit shall serve his turn to prove us either No Christians or Impostors Another Condition for a Meeting is That Jeremy prove himself that Christian or else he is unfit to prove another No Christian To this he saith But is not this pretty As they define a Christian there is no Christian but themselves and when I have proved myself a Christian which by Interpretation is a Quaker then I think the Question will be out of Question To this I reply I must needs look upon this as a very sorry Shift for but in the very Condition before he is told That before he enters upon proving us No Christians he would tell us what a True Christian is or we go by no Standard See now here how plainly this provides first for an Agreement upon the Definition of a True Christian even such as both Ieremy and the Quakers might agree upon Is it not reasonable that the Terms of a Proposition or Matter in Question should be explained and agreed upon in all Controversies and also reasonable that when it is agreed what a True Christian is that Jeremy should prove himself one before he be admitted to prove others none And did the Quakers herein propose either to be the sole Judges who is a True Christian or have they hereby demerited this man's Sleight and Derision he thus taunteth them with viz. Would it not make one smile to see the sad Shifts the Poor Men are put to And what sad Shifts What! to agree upon the Definition of a Christian as a Standard to go by and then for Jeremy to prove himself that Christian first else What Credit can his Attempts be of while he doth not prosecute others as a Christian or Partaker of Christianity himself Seeing he has so hideously charg'd others with being no Christians And further It is not only the Quakers but many others that look upon Jer. Ives to be no True Christian or worthy to bear that Name or undertake in the Behalf of all Christians to prove the Quakers none as he promiseth to produce a Deputation from the Baptists if he can obtain it Well I 'le assure him if he doth we will take it for granted that the Baptists make him their great Agent and we will look upon their Cause as highly concerned in him and so far resigned to him let him do what he can to maintain it we are not at all doubtful on our parts of a good Issâ—e for the Truth And seeing Jeremy pretendeth his Endeavours for such a Deputation from the Baptists shall be to leave us naked of all Excuse we expect that it shall not be to evade those Conditions before proposed by William Penn in his Paper agaâ—nst Jeremy Ives his Challenge otherwise if he should procure it to evade and shuffle off our Proceeding on those Conditions we shall but look upon it as a Flam and a vapouring Colour and Diversion like his Interposing and Vaunting Challenge tending to Divert or keep us off from the Pursuance of our Charge against his Brother Tho. Hicks whom with his Abettors we charge with being guilty of Forgery Slanders c. He hath a Fling at S. Eccles charging him that he saith of G. Fox That it may be said of him as it was said of Christ that the World was made by him though the World knew him not and then addeth Is not this a rare Christian p. 15. Unto which I must tell Jeremy That in my Understanding he hath both unfairly cited and interpreted S. E. in this Matter for if so be that he could say or intend that The World was made by him did relate to G. Fox as well as to Christ then I must confess with Jeremy that he was more fit for Bedlam then otherwise But if he alludes only to The World knew him no which related to Christ that so it may be said of this True Prophet G. F. as S. E's sense then I cannot see why Ieremy Ives should so deride him although he might have better and more safely worded his Intention yet it is Uncharitable to reflect upon a Man's Christianity for a little Failer in Syntax which can only be imputed to S. E. in this Matter according to the Law of Charity let him speak for himself see our Friends Book entituled Judas and the Jews p. 75. viz. I did not say nor did I ever believe that the World was made by G. F. but by Christ who was in the World and the World knew him not so I say it may be said of G. F. the World knows him not though he be in the World as was said of Christ He was in the World though not of the World and the World knew him not and he said of his Followers Ye are not of the World as I am not of the World Jo. 17. 16. and I have chosen you out of the World Jo. 15. 19. See here how plainly S. E. hath signified his Intention in this Matter And what but Prejudice and Enmity can otherwise construe his words Finally be it remembred that Ieremy's Charge that makes such a Hideous Noise viz. That our Ministers are Impostors and Men of Lying Spirits did proceed from his Uncharitableness or at least his Breach of the Laws of Good Manners according to his own Observation pag. 5. where he hath promised Not to break the Laws of Good Manners to call our Friends Papers Lyes and Forgeries So that herein he standeth a Self condemned Person not only breaking the Laws of Good Manners according to his own Confession but pursuing for a further Breach thereof in which he also hath bespoken himself to be No Christian condemning that in others which he allows in himself as is fully prov'd before against him To his POSTSCRIPT First For Idle and Ridiculous Opinions and Practices as he would charge upon us in general I do not yet find that he hath found them in such Books and Persons as the Quakers declaredly own as his words are that Work is yet to do for ought I see Secondly Suppose there were any Absurd Opinions contained in